If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Stars and Stripes)   The War in Afghanistan has officially become a teenager, is already slouching and talking back   (stripes.com) divider line 61
    More: Sad, Afghanistan, Afghan National Security Forces, Enduring Freedom, security agreement, American troops, Western Allies, resistance group, foreign service  
•       •       •

2972 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Oct 2013 at 11:31 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



61 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-10-07 10:24:12 AM
Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.
 
2013-10-07 11:26:26 AM
First line of the article:  Monday marks 12 years since the U.S. invaded Afghanistan

Your math sucks, subby.
 
2013-10-07 11:27:48 AM
I bet the Russians are laughing their (collective) ass off.


/collective - get it?
//ha ha ha
 
2013-10-07 11:27:52 AM
How is it wearing its pants?
 
2013-10-07 11:27:53 AM
Good article. It's sort of neat living in the future and looking back on that crazy time.
 
2013-10-07 11:33:02 AM
That's why y'all need to stop going to war. No matter what the "mission", you will have Americans dying there for decades and that's not an exaggeration.
 
2013-10-07 11:38:29 AM

RedPhoenix122: First line of the article:  Monday marks 12 years since the U.S. invaded Afghanistan

Your math sucks, subby.


Nnnooo... the war has passed its twelfth year and entered its thirteenth.
 
2013-10-07 11:40:32 AM
Rambo III lied!!!!
 
2013-10-07 11:42:03 AM

LegacyDL: Rambo III lied!!!!


Rambo didn't lie. The world lied to him.
 
2013-10-07 11:42:23 AM

brimed03: RedPhoenix122: First line of the article:  Monday marks 12 years since the U.S. invaded Afghanistan

Your math sucks, subby.

Nnnooo... the war has passed its twelfth year and entered its thirteenth.


And yet we count age by the number of years we have already accumulated, not by the year we're currently in. So yeah, not a teenager. Though the war is probably into Taylor Swift or Justin Bieber by now.
 
2013-10-07 11:42:35 AM

I_C_Weener: Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.


We accomplished the goal once we realized that OBL wasn't even IN Afghanistan.

There are (by all accounts), a lot of very intelligent people that seemed to think that destabalizing an entire country that was already pretty unstable, for the sake of catching one guy, was a really good idea.  How many people have died as a result?  How many more will it be before we finally pack up our shiat and bring the troops home?

To all you very intelligent people.  You are all a bunch of farking idiots.
 
2013-10-07 11:43:13 AM
We could end the war today if we legalized heroin.
 
2013-10-07 11:43:58 AM

LegacyDL: Rambo III lied!!!!


www.sideshowtoy.com
 
2013-10-07 11:44:04 AM

Jument: That's why y'all need to stop going to war. No matter what the "mission", you will have Americans dying there for decades and that's not an exaggeration.


::Shrug:: More American soldiers died from traffic and training accidents annually in the 1980s than have died in a similar period in Afghanistan. The only reason this war dragged on so long is the stupid, unnecessary invasion of Iraq. If we'd focused our efforts in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the real enemy was located, we'd have been out of there five years ago. As it is, we've achieved a lot of our goals, just taken too long to do it. The Taliban have pretty much no chance of retaking power in Afghanistan, the Afghan economy has risen to levels never seen before there, and most Afghan kids are in school (including most girls). I'm talking a GDP of $33 billion last year, compared to $2.4 billion in 2000.
 
2013-10-07 11:44:27 AM
Are we invited to the Bar Mitzvah?
 
2013-10-07 11:45:27 AM

brimed03: RedPhoenix122: First line of the article:  Monday marks 12 years since the U.S. invaded Afghanistan

Your math sucks, subby.

Nnnooo... the war has passed its twelfth year and entered its thirteenth.


Which means it's 12 years old, and not yet a teenager. When you're 13 and a teenager, you're in your 14th year, but nobody expresses age that way.
 
2013-10-07 11:46:27 AM

durbnpoisn: I_C_Weener: Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.

We accomplished the goal once we realized that OBL wasn't even IN Afghanistan.

There are (by all accounts), a lot of very intelligent people that seemed to think that destabalizing an entire country that was already pretty unstable, for the sake of catching one guy, was a really good idea.  How many people have died as a result?  How many more will it be before we finally pack up our shiat and bring the troops home?

To all you very intelligent people.  You are all a bunch of farking idiots.


"Will you give us OBL?"

"No."

"Your choice."
 
2013-10-07 11:49:43 AM

durbnpoisn: I_C_Weener: Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.

We accomplished the goal once we realized that OBL wasn't even IN Afghanistan.

There are (by all accounts), a lot of very intelligent people that seemed to think that destabalizing an entire country that was already pretty unstable, for the sake of catching one guy, was a really good idea.  How many people have died as a result?  How many more will it be before we finally pack up our shiat and bring the troops home?

To all you very intelligent people.  You are all a bunch of farking idiots.


Stability isn't always a good thing. North Korea's stable. Under the Taliban, Afghans were trapped in a religious gulag by a foreign philosophy. Girls were not allowed to go to school. That's not Afghan culture, that's something that was imposed on them by foreign invaders from Pakistan. While fixing that wasn't our goal, it was a pretty good side effect of our (successful after 2009) pursuit of Al Qaeda.
 
2013-10-07 11:50:25 AM

I_C_Weener: Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.


OBL was buried on 12.26.01. which makes the whole thing moot. We didn't go over there to dig him up, we went to control religion, same as the Soviets before us. Pretend you're looking for bio-fuels or a terrorist, but the end-game is controlling religion.

The Jawas pray to the wrong monkey, so we bypassed diplomacy and commenced the ground war. The troops we sent over are our guys that we can spare, in that, they too believe in the wrong god(s). I guarantee not one of the casualties we lost over there was a true religious person of interest to the 0.01%.

We need to break the cycle, the Swedes have the right idea.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-10-07 11:51:03 AM
Though the war is probably into Taylor Swift

Do you remember we were sitting there by the water?
Your severed arm around me for the first time.
Some Afghan rebel got a careless man's careful daughter.
You are the best thing that's ever been mined.
 
2013-10-07 11:53:47 AM

YoOjo: I_C_Weener: Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.

OBL was buried on 12.26.01. which makes the whole thing moot. We didn't go over there to dig him up, we went to control religion, same as the Soviets before us. Pretend you're looking for bio-fuels or a terrorist, but the end-game is controlling religion.

The Jawas pray to the wrong monkey, so we bypassed diplomacy and commenced the ground war. The troops we sent over are our guys that we can spare, in that, they too believe in the wrong god(s). I guarantee not one of the casualties we lost over there was a true religious person of interest to the 0.01%.

We need to break the cycle, the Swedes have the right idea.


But to control religion we must conquer the fear of the 4 corner days.
 
2013-10-07 11:54:00 AM

YoOjo: I_C_Weener: Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.

OBL was buried on 12.26.01. which makes the whole thing moot. We didn't go over there to dig him up, we went to control religion, same as the Soviets before us. Pretend you're looking for bio-fuels or a terrorist, but the end-game is controlling religion.

The Jawas pray to the wrong monkey, so we bypassed diplomacy and commenced the ground war. The troops we sent over are our guys that we can spare, in that, they too believe in the wrong god(s). I guarantee not one of the casualties we lost over there was a true religious person of interest to the 0.01%.

We need to break the cycle, the Swedes have the right idea.


You need to explain your derpistry a little more thoroughly; you're eliding background that those of us not steeped in InfoWars don't know. What's the religion of the .01 percent?
 
2013-10-07 11:55:41 AM

mbillips: YoOjo: I_C_Weener: Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.

OBL was buried on 12.26.01. which makes the whole thing moot. We didn't go over there to dig him up, we went to control religion, same as the Soviets before us. Pretend you're looking for bio-fuels or a terrorist, but the end-game is controlling religion.

The Jawas pray to the wrong monkey, so we bypassed diplomacy and commenced the ground war. The troops we sent over are our guys that we can spare, in that, they too believe in the wrong god(s). I guarantee not one of the casualties we lost over there was a true religious person of interest to the 0.01%.

We need to break the cycle, the Swedes have the right idea.

You need to explain your derpistry a little more thoroughly; you're eliding background that those of us not steeped in InfoWars don't know. What's the religion of the .01 percent?


www.timecube.com
 
2013-10-07 11:56:19 AM

devilEther: We could end the war today if we legalized heroin.


I don't see how.  The taliban had tried to eradicate the cultivation of poppy because it was un-islamic.  Then they realized it was a big source of funding.  Leagalizing heroin (world wide) might remove that source of funding,  but unlike the Mexican cartels, the taliban isn't in it for the money.
 
2013-10-07 11:56:48 AM

durbnpoisn: There are (by all accounts), a lot of very intelligent people that seemed to think that destabalizing an entire country that was already pretty unstable, for the sake of catching one guy, was a really good idea.


That's not quite the goal -- it wasn't just to catch Bin Laden, it was to destroy Al Qaeda and their allies, primarily the Taliban.  In that goal we've pretty much failed.  Supposedly we've mostly eliminated AQ from Afghanistan, Iraq (which they only moved into AFTER we invaded), and who knows what the hell is going on in Yemen; but in the meanwhile it's spread to North Africa and allied with groups there.  The Taliban remains a power player in Afghanistan, and given the fluid nature of tribal loyalties there, they're not going away anytime soon.
 
2013-10-07 11:57:44 AM
I know it's been pointed out, but subby, this is about as simple as math can be. It's 2013, 9/11 was in 2001 and the war started shortly after. 13-1=12.
 
2013-10-07 11:57:58 AM

uncleacid: Are we invited to the Bar Mitzvah?


Can you get good gefilte fish in Afghanistan?
 
2013-10-07 11:59:25 AM

gopher321: I bet the Russians are laughing their (collective) ass off.


/collective - get it?
//ha ha ha


this
 
2013-10-07 12:00:49 PM
Is it so hard for the US to GTFO by this point?

Osama is dead, the taliban is in tatters, and the local government is corrupt and hates us.

Let them stew in their own shiat.
 
2013-10-07 12:02:54 PM
Can we leave yet?
 
2013-10-07 12:05:08 PM

Arkanaut: durbnpoisn: There are (by all accounts), a lot of very intelligent people that seemed to think that destabalizing an entire country that was already pretty unstable, for the sake of catching one guy, was a really good idea.

That's not quite the goal -- it wasn't just to catch Bin Laden, it was to destroy Al Qaeda and their allies, primarily the Taliban.   In that goal we've pretty much failed.  Supposedly we've mostly eliminated AQ from Afghanistan, Iraq (which they only moved into AFTER we invaded), and who knows what the hell is going on in Yemen; but in the meanwhile it's spread to North Africa and allied with groups there.  The Taliban remains a power player in Afghanistan, and given the fluid nature of tribal loyalties there, they're not going away anytime soon.


That point is extremely debatable. Afghanistan has a stronger, more unified national government today than at any time since before the Soviet invasion, with a booming economy (11 percent growth in 2012) and more children being educated than at any time in decades. The Taliban remain a local problem in parts of the country, but they are very much a marginal insurgency, rather than the most powerful political and military force in the country that they were prior to 2001. Al Qaeda in Pakistan has largely lost most of its leadership, and the ability to direct attacks against international targets; it's mostly a local problem for the Pakistanis now. Al Qaeda as a philosophy continues to cause trouble around the Muslim world, but it's on a level that Red terrorism was in Europe in the '70s; a problem but not something that leads to failed states. Even Somalia is getting back on its feet thanks to African peacekeepers.

The goal of the war wasn't to eliminate jihadism and fill the world with kittens and rainbows; it was to eliminate Afghanistan as a base and training ground for Al Qaeda attacks on the West. Job done.
 
2013-10-07 12:05:37 PM
http://www.fark.com/comments/7964559/86892363#c86892363" data-cke-saved-href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7964559/86892363#c8 6892363">Arkanaut: durbnpoisn: There are (by all accounts), a lot of very intelligent people that seemed to think that destabalizing an entire country that was already pretty unstable, for the sake of catching one guy, was a really good idea.

That's not quite the goal -- it wasn't just to catch Bin Laden, it was to destroy Al Qaeda and their allies, primarily the Taliban.  In that goal we've pretty much failed.  Supposedly we've mostly eliminated AQ from Afghanistan, Iraq (which they only moved into AFTER we invaded), and who knows what the hell is going on in Yemen; but in the meanwhile it's spread to North Africa and allied with groups there.  The Taliban remains a power player in Afghanistan, and given the fluid nature of tribal loyalties there, they're not going away anytime soon.


Which, after all was kinda my point.
If our initial intention was to get the Taliban out of power, we haven't even come close.  I realize how bad they suck.  But trying to wipe out a radical Islamic group is like trying to wipe out bacteria.  No matter how many you take out, there will be millions ready to take their place.  And they will adapt and be even harder to eradicate.

For our leaders to make it appear that we are winning the war on terrorism on any level would be laughable, if it were the slightest bit funny.
 
2013-10-07 12:06:18 PM
I think we should change the name to 'Operation Enduring a Quagmire in the name of Freedom which is actually spelled Feedom because that's what we really do is charge fees for everything in the USA'.
 
2013-10-07 12:06:21 PM
Lovely.
 
2013-10-07 12:08:16 PM

YoOjo: I_C_Weener: Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.

OBL was buried on 12.26.01. which makes the whole thing moot. We didn't go over there to dig him up, we went to control religion, same as the Soviets before us. Pretend you're looking for bio-fuels or a terrorist, but the end-game is controlling religion.

The Jawas pray to the wrong monkey, so we bypassed diplomacy and commenced the ground war. The troops we sent over are our guys that we can spare, in that, they too believe in the wrong god(s). I guarantee not one of the casualties we lost over there was a true religious person of interest to the 0.01%.

We need to break the cycle, the Swedes have the right idea.


welcome to my favorites list, weirdo.
 
2013-10-07 12:08:17 PM
Their complaint is that people aren't watching them? That's what they're upset about? Not the whole fighting an unwinnable war for no real reason?

Attention whores.
 
2013-10-07 12:09:32 PM
mbillips:

You need to explain your secrets a little more thoroughly; you're eliding background that those of us not steeped in macro-enlightenment don't know. What's the religion of the .01 percent?

Your brain is a bag of water containing chemicals, that's all it is.
Information is two or more chemicals reacting, usually via a process of agitation.
The 0.01% do not want you to know who or what is the true religion but you are capable of working it out. Agitate your brain, let it tell you.
 
2013-10-07 12:12:11 PM

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Can we leave yet?


We ARE leaving, in a sensible orderly fashion. We've shut down 90 percent of our bases in Afghanistan, and turned over security control of the entire country to the Afghans. By the end of 2014, we'll have some number of military trainers, a small QRF and a buttload of contractors there ensuring that the Afghan army and police continue to improve, and there will be tons of NGOs operating to try to make the place economically viable, removing the hopelessness that makes jihad so attractive.

Just bugging out would produce the sort of power vacuum that we left in 1989, and make the whole effort we've put in wasted.
 
2013-10-07 12:17:56 PM

mbillips: Arkanaut: durbnpoisn: There are (by all accounts), a lot of very intelligent people that seemed to think that destabalizing an entire country that was already pretty unstable, for the sake of catching one guy, was a really good idea.

That's not quite the goal -- it wasn't just to catch Bin Laden, it was to destroy Al Qaeda and their allies, primarily the Taliban.   In that goal we've pretty much failed.  Supposedly we've mostly eliminated AQ from Afghanistan, Iraq (which they only moved into AFTER we invaded), and who knows what the hell is going on in Yemen; but in the meanwhile it's spread to North Africa and allied with groups there.  The Taliban remains a power player in Afghanistan, and given the fluid nature of tribal loyalties there, they're not going away anytime soon.

That point is extremely debatable. Afghanistan has a stronger, more unified national government today than at any time since before the Soviet invasion, with a booming economy (11 percent growth in 2012) and more children being educated than at any time in decades. The Taliban remain a local problem in parts of the country, but they are very much a marginal insurgency, rather than the most powerful political and military force in the country that they were prior to 2001. Al Qaeda in Pakistan has largely lost most of its leadership, and the ability to direct attacks against international targets; it's mostly a local problem for the Pakistanis now. Al Qaeda as a philosophy continues to cause trouble around the Muslim world, but it's on a level that Red terrorism was in Europe in the '70s; a problem but not something that leads to failed states. Even Somalia is getting back on its feet thanks to African peacekeepers.

The goal of the war wasn't to eliminate jihadism and fill the world with kittens and rainbows; it was to eliminate Afghanistan as a base and training ground for Al Qaeda attacks on the West. Job done.


Before 9/11. I read that the Taliban while in power, actually represented a very small minority of Afghani people in Afghanistan - something like 50,000 hardcore members (bolstered by large numbers of foreign islamists). Realistically, this is akin to the Aryan brotherhood having control over the US, and they managed it through sheer ruthless violence. Most tribes just wanted to be left alone, and elders certainly had no issues with a government enforcing islamist policies that were in line with tribal customs and law. They rode to power on the vacuum left behind by the soviets, and before they took power and started brutalizing their own people, they were seen as heroes.

Now, not so much.

The Taliban's numbers are probably the same (though fewer native members), but I doubt they have even a small fraction the same level of popular support that allowed them to take power the first time.

Better education will go a long way toward promoting a more progressive culture. Change takes time - 12 years is simply not enough time to turn the country around completely, but the groundwork is in place.
 
2013-10-07 12:25:48 PM

mbillips: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Can we leave yet?

We ARE leaving, in a sensible orderly fashion. We've shut down 90 percent of our bases in Afghanistan, and turned over security control of the entire country to the Afghans. By the end of 2014, we'll have some number of military trainers, a small QRF and a buttload of contractors there ensuring that the Afghan army and police continue to improve, and there will be tons of NGOs operating to try to make the place economically viable, removing the hopelessness that makes jihad so attractive.

Just bugging out would produce the sort of power vacuum that we left in 1989, and make the whole effort we've put in wasted.


You're right that bugging out would leave a power vacuum but what we need to leave behind, in all of these countries, is a government based on the rule of law, a government that will respect the laws, and a citizenry that believes they are secure under that rule of law.  The U.S. used to be able to do that - West Germany and Japan after WW II, South Korea after that conflict.  When we have failed to make sure those elements are in place, our efforts have resulted in failure and our blood and treasure expended for nothing.  Consider Vietnam and what appears to be increasing chaos in Iraq.  It is that rule of law and security, both personal and economic, of the citizenry that marks successful countries from those not successful.  Compare the two Koreas.

We don't appear to have a clear vision of what constitutes victory in these countries.  Of course we can bomb the hell out of them.  What happens when the shooting stops is where we seem to fail in the past several decades.
 
2013-10-07 12:30:45 PM

mbillips: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Can we leave yet?

We ARE leaving, in a sensible orderly fashion. We've shut down 90 percent of our bases in Afghanistan, and turned over security control of the entire country to the Afghans. By the end of 2014, we'll have some number of military trainers, a small QRF and a buttload of contractors there ensuring that the Afghan army and police continue to improve, and there will be tons of NGOs operating to try to make the place economically viable, removing the hopelessness that makes jihad so attractive.

Just bugging out would produce the sort of power vacuum that we left in 1989, and make the whole effort we've put in wasted.


Yea, I get that. I'm frustrated with the entire region. Every dead soldier from here on in seems worse than a waste, and I'm sure I'm late to the party to think that. Drones look better every day.
 
2013-10-07 12:31:18 PM
Maybe they can bomb some rubble to celebrate.
 
2013-10-07 12:31:30 PM

mbillips: Arkanaut: durbnpoisn: There are (by all accounts), a lot of very intelligent people that seemed to think that destabalizing an entire country that was already pretty unstable, for the sake of catching one guy, was a really good idea.

That's not quite the goal -- it wasn't just to catch Bin Laden, it was to destroy Al Qaeda and their allies, primarily the Taliban.   In that goal we've pretty much failed.  Supposedly we've mostly eliminated AQ from Afghanistan, Iraq (which they only moved into AFTER we invaded), and who knows what the hell is going on in Yemen; but in the meanwhile it's spread to North Africa and allied with groups there.  The Taliban remains a power player in Afghanistan, and given the fluid nature of tribal loyalties there, they're not going away anytime soon.

That point is extremely debatable. Afghanistan has a stronger, more unified national government today than at any time since before the Soviet invasion, with a booming economy (11 percent growth in 2012) and more children being educated than at any time in decades. The Taliban remain a local problem in parts of the country, but they are very much a marginal insurgency, rather than the most powerful political and military force in the country that they were prior to 2001. Al Qaeda in Pakistan has largely lost most of its leadership, and the ability to direct attacks against international targets; it's mostly a local problem for the Pakistanis now. Al Qaeda as a philosophy continues to cause trouble around the Muslim world, but it's on a level that Red terrorism was in Europe in the '70s; a problem but not something that leads to failed states. Even Somalia is getting back on its feet thanks to African peacekeepers.

The goal of the war wasn't to eliminate jihadism and fill the world with kittens and rainbows; it was to eliminate Afghanistan as a base and training ground for Al Qaeda attacks on the West. Job done.


In general, I do get the perception that Afghanistan has turned the corner in terms of armed violence, and its economic development is encouraging; but TFA does bring up a few worrying points about the management of the Afghanistan situation, primarily that the Administration doesn't seem to want to talk about it anymore.  Afghanistan might need several more years of nurturing before it can adequately defend itself, but last I checked (which was a while ago, since our collective attention was diverted by Iran and Syria) the Administration has been throwing around the "zero option" quite a bit.  Also, even with all the training and resources we've put into the ANA, who's to say that it won't just fracture into warlord groups once NATO leaves? Alternatively, they might also just overthrow the civilian government, since they've probably got their shiat together more than the local warlords.
 
2013-10-07 12:31:35 PM
 
2013-10-07 12:32:00 PM

I_C_Weener: Pretty sure we accomplished our goals for Afghanistan when we killed Osama in Pakistan.  Should have packed up the next day and come home.


I think we should have packed up after it became clear we were not going to catch him in Afghanistan.  Like some time in December 2001.
 
2013-10-07 12:32:54 PM
If there's grass on the field.. don't play ball because it's probably mined.
 
2013-10-07 12:35:57 PM
YoOjo:

The 0.01% do not want you to know who or what is the true religion but you are capable of working it out. Agitate your brain, let it tell you.

According to the New Testament the god of this world is Satan and/or Mammon. I can see why people might think that.

Charlie blew it by not muzzing Squeaky.
 
2013-10-07 12:36:17 PM

Mr. Right: mbillips: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Can we leave yet?

We ARE leaving, in a sensible orderly fashion. We've shut down 90 percent of our bases in Afghanistan, and turned over security control of the entire country to the Afghans. By the end of 2014, we'll have some number of military trainers, a small QRF and a buttload of contractors there ensuring that the Afghan army and police continue to improve, and there will be tons of NGOs operating to try to make the place economically viable, removing the hopelessness that makes jihad so attractive.

Just bugging out would produce the sort of power vacuum that we left in 1989, and make the whole effort we've put in wasted.

You're right that bugging out would leave a power vacuum but what we need to leave behind, in all of these countries, is a government based on the rule of law, a government that will respect the laws, and a citizenry that believes they are secure under that rule of law.  The U.S. used to be able to do that - West Germany and Japan after WW II, South Korea after that conflict.  When we have failed to make sure those elements are in place, our efforts have resulted in failure and our blood and treasure expended for nothing.  Consider Vietnam and what appears to be increasing chaos in Iraq.  It is that rule of law and security, both personal and economic, of the citizenry that marks successful countries from those not successful.  Compare the two Koreas.

We don't appear to have a clear vision of what constitutes victory in these countries.  Of course we can bomb the hell out of them.  What happens when the shooting stops is where we seem to fail in the past several decades.


The difference is that Japan and Germany were defeated powers who had unconditionally surrendered, so we could impose whatever constitution/government on them that we wanted. We fought in Vietnam, South Korea and Afghanistan because were were INVITED there by host governments. shiatty, corrupt host governments who were incompetent, corrupt and oppressive, but we were there on their forebearance (despite what Chomskyites think, the U.S. is not actually a colonizing power). Thus the difference. Iraq COULD have been like Germany, but we turned over decisions about sovereignty and power-sharing to the Iraqis as soon as they held elections. The difference there was mostly a difference between Truman-Marshall and Bush-Rumsfeld (competence).
 
2013-10-07 12:57:08 PM
LesserEvil:

Better education will go a long way toward promoting a more progressive culture. Change takes time - 12 years is simply not enough time to turn the country around completely, but the groundwork is in place.

Look how long that's taken in these United States. E.g., some people think it's a gross violation of their human rights for the Gummint to get them health insurance. Because of course it has to be evil if it comes from that ni Kenyan socialist: real Americans would rather totter of bubonic plague than submit to such tyranny, but they're too busy giving themselves diabetes to be more than passive-aggressively revolting.

By the way, was the "action" against Afghanistan ever officially a war? The US Congress hasn't formally declared war since June 5, 1942; the closest it came was authorizing the smashing of Iraq, to stop Sadam bin Laden from destroying Christendom with a vial of baby powder.

Let me know when that edumacation thingie catches on. Maybe somebody should hand out free maps.
 
2013-10-07 01:07:24 PM

mbillips: Mr. Right: mbillips: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Can we leave yet?

We ARE leaving, in a sensible orderly fashion. We've shut down 90 percent of our bases in Afghanistan, and turned over security control of the entire country to the Afghans. By the end of 2014, we'll have some number of military trainers, a small QRF and a buttload of contractors there ensuring that the Afghan army and police continue to improve, and there will be tons of NGOs operating to try to make the place economically viable, removing the hopelessness that makes jihad so attractive.

Just bugging out would produce the sort of power vacuum that we left in 1989, and make the whole effort we've put in wasted.

You're right that bugging out would leave a power vacuum but what we need to leave behind, in all of these countries, is a government based on the rule of law, a government that will respect the laws, and a citizenry that believes they are secure under that rule of law.  The U.S. used to be able to do that - West Germany and Japan after WW II, South Korea after that conflict.  When we have failed to make sure those elements are in place, our efforts have resulted in failure and our blood and treasure expended for nothing.  Consider Vietnam and what appears to be increasing chaos in Iraq.  It is that rule of law and security, both personal and economic, of the citizenry that marks successful countries from those not successful.  Compare the two Koreas.

We don't appear to have a clear vision of what constitutes victory in these countries.  Of course we can bomb the hell out of them.  What happens when the shooting stops is where we seem to fail in the past several decades.

The difference is that Japan and Germany were defeated powers who had unconditionally surrendered, so we could impose whatever constitution/government on them that we wanted. We fought in Vietnam, South Korea and Afghanistan because were were INVITED there by host governments. shiatty, corrupt host governments who were incompete ...


Another difference is we bombed the ever living shiat out of Germany and Japan.  That tends to make the survivors more compliant.  Plus they started it which tends to make the survivors a little less defensive about being rolled over.  Plus the alternative was the Russians.  Playing ball with us was a lot better then breaking rocks in Siberia.  Trying to nation build in Afghanistan or Iraq is a terrible idea.
 
Displayed 50 of 61 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report