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(Washington Examiner)   GOP Congressman compares current standoff to the Union versus the Confederacy. Problem: In his own analogy, he's the Confederacy   (washingtonexaminer.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, GOP, unions, obamacare, congressman, GOP leadership, analogy, Majority Leader Harry Reid, senate democrats  
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1690 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Oct 2013 at 6:53 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-06 11:55:59 PM  
People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.
 
2013-10-07 12:10:32 AM  

DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.


Wow. *Some*one hasn't read his history...
 
2013-10-07 12:13:08 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.

Wow. *Some*one hasn't read his history...


You?
 
2013-10-07 12:35:15 AM  

DamnYankees: Benevolent Misanthrope: DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.

Wow. *Some*one hasn't read his history...

You?


No, you actually.

The Confederates were plutocrats, the Nazis were fascists under the guise of state socialists. Big difference there, even the Nazis thought less of the plutocratic elements of the WR than Americans think of the Neo Nazis.

It's apples and oranges, really.
 
2013-10-07 12:38:48 AM  

DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.


Well, Confederates and Nazis have at least one thing in common -- THEY LOST!

i1.ytimg.com

/granted, not without causing ungodly amounts of damage in a wide variety of ways but still, THEY LOST!!!
//LOSERS!!!!!1.772453850905516027!
 
2013-10-07 01:41:11 AM  
img389.imageshack.us

/oblig


I would liken this a little bit to Gettysburg, where a Confederate unit went looking for shoes and stumbled into Union cavalry

Bullshiat.

A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Planning
 
2013-10-07 02:20:17 AM  

DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.


From the quote I don't think he was necessarily comparing the GOP's tactics to the Confederacy in a positive light, though it was an odd comparison to make.  My guess is that it was a southern Congressman, just due to the fact that southern establishment types seem more prone to using Civil War references.

The most distressing part about it is how it shows how clueless the GOP has been about what this is about, and how they felt if they kept dialing back their requests that they would eventually get the Senate to agree to something.  This has never been about the particulars of what the GOP was asking for (though what they have been asking for would have been a deal breaker even if it were) but rather their entire negotiating tactic.

Until they realize that it doesn't matter whether they ask for a repeal of the ACA, a delay of certain provisions, or even a ham sandwich because the Democrats are objecting to their tactics more than the requests, this is going to stay ugly.
 
2013-10-07 06:24:13 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.

From the quote I don't think he was necessarily comparing the GOP's tactics to the Confederacy in a positive light, though it was an odd comparison to make.  My guess is that it was a southern Congressman, just due to the fact that southern establishment types seem more prone to using Civil War references.

The most distressing part about it is how it shows how clueless the GOP has been about what this is about, and how they felt if they kept dialing back their requests that they would eventually get the Senate to agree to something.  This has never been about the particulars of what the GOP was asking for (though what they have been asking for would have been a deal breaker even if it were) but rather their entire negotiating tactic.

Until they realize that it doesn't matter whether they ask for a repeal of the ACA, a delay of certain provisions, or even a ham sandwich because the Democrats are objecting to their tactics more than the requests, this is going to stay ugly.


What's making matters worse is that the dems CANNOT back down. They can't give the GOP what they want because the democrats know that to do so would effectively re-engineer the government and render much of the constitution pointless. Why bother with normal legislative procedure when you can just shut down the government to get what you want?
 
2013-10-07 07:00:39 AM  
It's great that you're a political reporter and all, but why the fark do you let them get away with harping this "Obama won't negotiate" garbage without calling them on it right away?

Don't just get them to talk: challenge them for crying out loud. You're a farking journalist, do your farking job.

Oh, right, sorry, I forgot. BSAB, so just relay whatever they told you to say.
 
2013-10-07 07:00:48 AM  
Ah yes, the war of Northern Aggression.  Precipitated when the North callously seized southern munitions inside Fort Sumter.  Fought over something as essential to human liberty as property rights and something as meaningless to the national scale as one man's farm equipment.  Unfortunately ending with the discovery that while you are allowed to leave the country, you are not allowed to take it with you.
 
2013-10-07 07:01:41 AM  
"...it just happened." -mystery congressman explaining how the teabaggers hatred of Obamacare led to the shutdown.


Ok, fine. Shutting down the government was an "oopsie". Can we get a mulligan?
 
2013-10-07 07:01:51 AM  
A huge portion of the Republican base would think this analogy is apt and flattering to them.
 
2013-10-07 07:07:30 AM  

iq_in_binary: DamnYankees: Benevolent Misanthrope: DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.

Wow. *Some*one hasn't read his history...

You?

No, you actually.

The Confederates were plutocrats, the Nazis were fascists under the guise of state socialists. Big difference there, even the Nazis thought less of the plutocratic elements of the WR than Americans think of the Neo Nazis.

It's apples and oranges, really.


He didn't say they were the same thing. He just said neither should be in charge of anything.
 
2013-10-07 07:07:47 AM  

fusillade762: [img389.imageshack.us image 399x408]

/oblig


I would liken this a little bit to Gettysburg, where a Confederate unit went looking for shoes and stumbled into Union cavalry

Bullshiat.

A Federal Budget Crisis Months in the Planning




Hey, if we can save just one child it's all worth it.
 
2013-10-07 07:09:42 AM  

Weaver95: TuteTibiImperes: DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.

From the quote I don't think he was necessarily comparing the GOP's tactics to the Confederacy in a positive light, though it was an odd comparison to make.  My guess is that it was a southern Congressman, just due to the fact that southern establishment types seem more prone to using Civil War references.

The most distressing part about it is how it shows how clueless the GOP has been about what this is about, and how they felt if they kept dialing back their requests that they would eventually get the Senate to agree to something.  This has never been about the particulars of what the GOP was asking for (though what they have been asking for would have been a deal breaker even if it were) but rather their entire negotiating tactic.

Until they realize that it doesn't matter whether they ask for a repeal of the ACA, a delay of certain provisions, or even a ham sandwich because the Democrats are objecting to their tactics more than the requests, this is going to stay ugly.

What's making matters worse is that the dems CANNOT back down. They can't give the GOP what they want because the democrats know that to do so would effectively re-engineer the government and render much of the constitution pointless. Why bother with normal legislative procedure when you can just shut down the government to get what you want?


The process worked. Negotiations were held. And agreement was reached. This crappy budget was a done deal. Harry Reid gave the GOP a $70 Billion concession in exchange for John Boehner's promise to send a clean CR that would fund Obamacare. Harry Reid kept his word. John Boehner didn't.
 
2013-10-07 07:11:09 AM  

iq_in_binary: The Confederates were plutocrats, the Nazis were fascists under the guise of state socialists. Big difference there, even the Nazis thought less of the plutocratic elements of the WR than Americans think of the Neo Nazis.


Hint: I think it's the slavery thing.
 
2013-10-07 07:13:35 AM  
farm4.staticflickr.com

Huge Swaths of Neo-Confederate Ideology and Rhetoric Appear in Today's GOP.   More at 11
 
2013-10-07 07:16:05 AM  
Oh please; the House has been holding vote after vote to repeal the ACA ever since it was passed. Don't give me this 'we stumbled into this situation' bullshiat. They added the extras to the CR bill knowing full well that Democrats in the Senate wouldn't accept them, so the Republicans could claim the Senate is to blame for the shutdown.

If Democrats cave in to even one change to the ACA, the debt ceiling bill will have two more changes attached to it, and at the end of the year when they have another funding bill there will be more changes attached to that, and so on, and so on. Republicans know they can't repeal it all at one time, so they are going to try and nibble it to death by attaching individual changes to every major bill they can. Same thing with the current funding bill; Democrats know Republicans will be happy to fund cancer research for kids, and opening national parks, because they are getting hammered on those subjects. What about funding EPA, or OSHA, or other regulatory groups? No, sorry, those are deadbeats who do nothing but hamper businesses from growing, according to conservatives.
 
2013-10-07 07:18:50 AM  

DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.


I feel the same way about people who make broad generalizations based on prejudice and supposition.
 
2013-10-07 07:19:39 AM  
Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?
 
2013-10-07 07:20:15 AM  
I would liken this a little bit to Gettysburg, where a Confederate unit went looking for shoes and stumbled into Union cavalry, and all of a sudden found itself embroiled in battle on a battlefield it didn't intend to be on, and everybody just kept feeding troops into it,"


The story that the Gettysburg battle started over shoes is a myth. It is not true.
 
2013-10-07 07:22:26 AM  
No, he's right. He just hasn't studied it out to the unskewed ending.
 
2013-10-07 07:23:03 AM  
welll...when he is right, he is right
 
2013-10-07 07:24:43 AM  
I think the problem lies in the new Republican platform just discovered:
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-07 07:24:49 AM  

vernonFL: I would liken this a little bit to Gettysburg, where a Confederate unit went looking for shoes and stumbled into Union cavalry, and all of a sudden found itself embroiled in battle on a battlefield it didn't intend to be on, and everybody just kept feeding troops into it,"


The story that the Gettysburg battle started over shoes is a myth. It is not true.


Are you expecting a GOP rep to get a key element of the civil war correct?
 
2013-10-07 07:26:04 AM  

Lucky LaRue: DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.

I feel the same way about people who make broad generalizations based on prejudice and supposition.


Is there a way to positively identify with Confederates?
 
2013-10-07 07:26:34 AM  

Bendal: Oh please; the House has been holding vote after vote to repeal the ACA ever since it was passed. Don't give me this 'we stumbled into this situation' bullshiat. They added the extras to the CR bill knowing full well that Democrats in the Senate wouldn't accept them, so the Republicans could claim the Senate is to blame for the shutdown.

If Democrats cave in to even one change to the ACA, the debt ceiling bill will have two more changes attached to it, and at the end of the year when they have another funding bill there will be more changes attached to that, and so on, and so on. Republicans know they can't repeal it all at one time, so they are going to try and nibble it to death by attaching individual changes to every major bill they can. Same thing with the current funding bill; Democrats know Republicans will be happy to fund cancer research for kids, and opening national parks, because they are getting hammered on those subjects. What about funding EPA, or OSHA, or other regulatory groups? No, sorry, those are deadbeats who do nothing but hamper businesses from growing, according to conservatives.


The Democrats should do this:

1). Pass a universal health care bill in the Senate.
2). Send it to the House and tell them that this is the only way to defeat Obamacare. Accept no changes.

The Republicans will have the nasty job of shutting down the government and rejecting something that is widely popular as an alternative to an existing and widely popular law.
 
2013-10-07 07:29:14 AM  

Muta: Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?


It's like kidnapping.  You don't get anything if you simply let the kid go under the wrong conditions.  Think of it like risk analysis with all of the pros and cons listed out.  Now cross out any risks that take longer than a few days to come back to haunt you.  That's pretty much how he's thinking this one through.
 
2013-10-07 07:29:59 AM  
picturesup.typepad.com

Fix Bayonets!

/hot
 
2013-10-07 07:30:30 AM  
Godwinned in a Boobies does not for a popcorn thread make...
 
2013-10-07 07:30:58 AM  
Anonymous Republican speaking in a fake newspaper. Sounds legit.
 
2013-10-07 07:31:54 AM  

Dracolich: Muta: Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?

It's like kidnapping.  You don't get anything if you simply let the kid go under the wrong conditions.  Think of it like risk analysis with all of the pros and cons listed out.  Now cross out any risks that take longer than a few days to come back to haunt you.  That's pretty much how he's thinking this one through.


What happens when our kidnapper aren't sure of what they want?
 
2013-10-07 07:32:45 AM  

BitwiseShift: Anonymous Republican speaking in a fake newspaper. Sounds legit.


Sounds like a Georgian.
 
2013-10-07 07:32:53 AM  
It wouldn't surprise me that he would have any problem with that. The GOP has become a caucus dominated by southern republicans, many of which fetishize  the confederacy.
 
2013-10-07 07:33:36 AM  
"I don't think that either Boehner or the president really have much of a plan beyond the next 24 hours," the congressman said.

The President's plan is divide and conquer and it's working. Big assist from Cruz though.
 
2013-10-07 07:33:37 AM  

Bontesla: Dracolich: Muta: Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?

It's like kidnapping.  You don't get anything if you simply let the kid go under the wrong conditions.  Think of it like risk analysis with all of the pros and cons listed out.  Now cross out any risks that take longer than a few days to come back to haunt you.  That's pretty much how he's thinking this one through.

What happens when our kidnapper aren't sure of what they want?


They hang teabags from their balaclava.
 
2013-10-07 07:34:31 AM  

Bontesla: Dracolich: Muta: Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?

It's like kidnapping.  You don't get anything if you simply let the kid go under the wrong conditions.  Think of it like risk analysis with all of the pros and cons listed out.  Now cross out any risks that take longer than a few days to come back to haunt you.  That's pretty much how he's thinking this one through.

What happens when our kidnapper aren't sure of what they want?


Who said they don't know what they want?
 
2013-10-07 07:35:10 AM  

Testiclaw: Lucky LaRue: DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.

I feel the same way about people who make broad generalizations based on prejudice and supposition.

Is there a way to positively identify with Confederates?


They had a robust farm training program, would even pay room and board.
 
2013-10-07 07:40:21 AM  

Muta: Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?


Because it would succeed.  Then they'd never deestroy the Affordable Care Act, and everything they've done politically since Obama has been elected would be for nothing.  The turned the 2012 election into a de-facto referendum on Obamacare through the media, and still didn't win the Presidency or the Senate.  They dragged it to the Supreme Court, and lost.

They had their own longstanding proposal turned into legislation and they didn't get the credit for it.  When Obamacare is a success, it will make the Democrats look good.  Under Republican "Logic", it's better to see the country burn than have anything good happen to America that can be credited to the other party.

Also, he'd look like a fool for saying it wouldn't succeed.  Then his own party, lead by the Teabaggers, would move to strip him of his Speaker position and would challenge him next year at re-election by running a Tea Party candidate against him.

In other words, he's willing to shut down the government and default on the sovereign debt of the US all to try to save his own political career and make his party look good.

Thanks to living in the "Echo Chamber", they think that the vast, overwhelming majority of Americans are on their side, blame the Democrats and Obama entirely, and that Obamacare is massively, catastrophically unpopular and universally reviled by Americans.  You would think that being dead wrong about the 2012 elections might have been a wake-up call that FOX News, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck et al aren't the best source for news, but old failures go down the memory hole because the echo chamber reinforces the idea that The Party is always right, and anybody who disagrees with The Party is always wrong.
 
2013-10-07 07:42:31 AM  
Once again a party is undone by its southern strategy, otherwise know as "getting the idiot vote". No matter how far forward this country moves, it will always be hampered by the more retarded southern component.
 
2013-10-07 07:42:59 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: "I don't think that either Boehner or the president really have much of a plan beyond the next 24 hours," the congressman said.

The President's plan is divide and conquer and it's working. Big assist from Cruz though.


The President's plan assumes an opponent capable of reason beyond self interest.

Too lazy to edit the House picture: "If you could reason with the tea party, there wouldn't be any tea party."
 
2013-10-07 07:43:44 AM  

Bontesla: Dracolich: Muta: Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?

It's like kidnapping.  You don't get anything if you simply let the kid go under the wrong conditions.  Think of it like risk analysis with all of the pros and cons listed out.  Now cross out any risks that take longer than a few days to come back to haunt you.  That's pretty much how he's thinking this one through.

What happens when our kidnapper aren't sure of what they want?


They just ask for shiat that's really hard to find so they can buy some time and plead insanity if they go down.  Basic stuff, football helmet full of cottage cheese, naked photo of Bea Arthur...  you know.
 
2013-10-07 07:44:38 AM  

Notabunny: Bontesla: Dracolich: Muta: Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?

It's like kidnapping.  You don't get anything if you simply let the kid go under the wrong conditions.  Think of it like risk analysis with all of the pros and cons listed out.  Now cross out any risks that take longer than a few days to come back to haunt you.  That's pretty much how he's thinking this one through.

What happens when our kidnapper aren't sure of what they want?

Who said they don't know what they want?


video.msnbc.msn.com/rachel-maddow/53191047
 
2013-10-07 07:46:35 AM  

BeesNuts: Bontesla: Dracolich: Muta: Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?

It's like kidnapping.  You don't get anything if you simply let the kid go under the wrong conditions.  Think of it like risk analysis with all of the pros and cons listed out.  Now cross out any risks that take longer than a few days to come back to haunt you.  That's pretty much how he's thinking this one through.

What happens when our kidnapper aren't sure of what they want?

They just ask for shiat that's really hard to find so they can buy some time and plead insanity if they go down.  Basic stuff, football helmet full of cottage cheese, naked photo of Bea Arthur...  you know.


So they want nothing? There's no end game in that.

They're the dogs that caught the car. Now what?
 
2013-10-07 07:46:47 AM  
SO his best non racial slur was to liken him to a house nubain?
 
2013-10-07 07:55:09 AM  

Bontesla: BeesNuts: Bontesla: Dracolich: Muta: Why doens't Boner simply put a clean CR to a vote in the House?

It's like kidnapping.  You don't get anything if you simply let the kid go under the wrong conditions.  Think of it like risk analysis with all of the pros and cons listed out.  Now cross out any risks that take longer than a few days to come back to haunt you.  That's pretty much how he's thinking this one through.

What happens when our kidnapper aren't sure of what they want?

They just ask for shiat that's really hard to find so they can buy some time and plead insanity if they go down.  Basic stuff, football helmet full of cottage cheese, naked photo of Bea Arthur...  you know.

So they want nothing? There's no end game in that.

They're the dogs that caught the car. Now what?


They drive us off the cliff to punish us for liking the car in the first place.  And we're all in it with them, unfortunately.
 
2013-10-07 07:57:29 AM  

BeesNuts: They just ask for shiat that's really hard to find so they can buy some time and plead insanity if they go down. Basic stuff, football helmet full of cottage cheese, naked photo of Bea Arthur (NSFW)... you know.


That wasn't so hard
 
2013-10-07 08:01:34 AM  

Testiclaw: vernonFL: I would liken this a little bit to Gettysburg, where a Confederate unit went looking for shoes and stumbled into Union cavalry, and all of a sudden found itself embroiled in battle on a battlefield it didn't intend to be on, and everybody just kept feeding troops into it,"


The story that the Gettysburg battle started over shoes is a myth. It is not true.

Are you expecting a GOP rep to get a key element of the civil war correct?


Any time a Republican brings up the Civil War as part of a Terrible Historical Analogy, the reporter should ask, "So, what was the American Civil War fought over, again?"  Give them the opportunity to stick their foot in their mouth.

And Vernon is 105% correct - Heth knew damn well the town had already been scouted for other supplies, and he's the one that started that damn myth after the war.  Gettysburg was a road junction, and A.P. Hill's Corps was just marching through.  I'm of the opinion Lee originally wanted to concentrate his forces near Hanover Junction and threaten one of the few rail lines connecting the eastern and western halves of the Union.
 
2013-10-07 08:09:13 AM  
Permanent victimhood is doubtless useful with the constituency he represents.
 
2013-10-07 08:09:50 AM  

Testiclaw: Lucky LaRue: DamnYankees: People who positively identify with the Confederacy should be as written off as those who proudly compare themselves to Nazis.

I feel the same way about people who make broad generalizations based on prejudice and supposition.

Is there a way to positively identify with Confederates?


The line-item veto was specifically written into their constitution, if that's your thing.
 
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