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(USA Today)   Healthcare.gov works great if you take away all those damn people wanting to sign up for it, says the Chief Technology Officer in charge of the site."These bugs were functions of volume,'' Park said. "Take away the volume and it works.''   (usatoday.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, diamond, officer in charge, information technology, Medicare Part D, visual routine  
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2539 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Oct 2013 at 1:39 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



220 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-06 11:57:26 AM  
You'll get over it whinemitter
 
2013-10-06 12:05:49 PM  
Because of this Obamacare is clearly a complete failure and should be immediately repealed.
 
2013-10-06 12:09:35 PM  
I spent 3 days trying to create an account and was finally able to do so. Two days later, I still haven't been able to log in.

The Obamacare defenders dismiss the failures of the website forgetting :

We have to buy insurance by 12/15 or else. Else what? Whatif you don't pay the fine?

The government compared the failure to apples I phone. We aren't required to buy an iPhone

The insurance isn't affordable or free. If. However, I could log in, I would find out if the subsidy calculator estimate of $19000 with a $12000 out of pocket is accurate or not.
 
2013-10-06 12:18:16 PM  
People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.  So, although it looks kind of bad at start, just like with GTA Online, traffic will eventually level out, and things will be "normal".
 
2013-10-06 12:21:14 PM  

ekdikeo4: People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.  So, although it looks kind of bad at start, just like with GTA Online, traffic will eventually level out, and things will be "normal".


Nonsense.  We need to scrap the whole thing and start over.  Preferably with a solution that involves poorhouses and debtor's prison.  Because soshulism.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-06 12:28:04 PM  

SauronWasFramed: We have to buy insurance by 12/15 or else. Else what? Whatif you don't pay the fine?



12/15 is like, tomorrow.  You are so screwed.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-06 12:33:12 PM  

PainInTheASP: Nonsense.  We need to scrap the whole thing and start over.  Preferably with a solution that involves poorhouses and debtor's prison.  Because soshulism.


So, stealing the tax money to pay for these free houses and prison for the poor from the job creators is what you want?

That sounds like facislamic socialism.
 
2013-10-06 12:33:23 PM  
My 1983 Toyota works fine, too, as long as MP one tries to start it.
 
2013-10-06 12:36:33 PM  

ekdikeo4: People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.  So, although it looks kind of bad at start, just like with GTA Online, traffic will eventually level out, and things will be "normal".


As much as I chuckle about 'the cloud' and SaaS, this is exactly the sort of problems those concepts are designed to overcome.
 
2013-10-06 12:43:06 PM  

vpb: PainInTheASP: Nonsense.  We need to scrap the whole thing and start over.  Preferably with a solution that involves poorhouses and debtor's prison.  Because soshulism.

So, stealing the tax money to pay for these free houses and prison for the poor from the job creators is what you want?

That sounds like facislamic socialism.


We can use eminent domain to requisition the properties, then have the inmates fix the houses up.  Hell, I could buy up half of Detroit with fifty bucks and have enough left over for a blowjob and a coke.  Call it "urban renewal".
 
2013-10-06 12:52:34 PM  
The entire week I've literally never NOT gotten the "we're experiencing overload please wait" message. It's not good.
 
2013-10-06 12:59:05 PM  
If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-06 01:01:41 PM  
I remember how long the lines were when Star Wars came out back in the 70's.  I don't know how well it did but it must have been a flop because there were lines.
 
2013-10-06 01:02:25 PM  
I gotta say, whoever decided to use Windows Server should be taken out back and shot
 
2013-10-06 01:16:24 PM  
This IT farkup was actually part of the Republican strategy. I remember the Teabagger arguments for not creatinga state-run exchange, and in addition to the obvious point of refusing to cooperate with Obamanism, they thought that they could overburden the federal system and cause it to fail, giving them another excuse to repeal Obamacare.

Servers and IT support cost money, and not much was budgeted for the federal exchange because they originally thought that few, if any, states would willingly cede control of their exchanges to the federal government. Of course now that they have, the obvious solution would be to ask Congress for some additional funding to support the rollout of Obamacare. I'm sure they'll get right on that.
 
2013-10-06 01:43:36 PM  
Explain what is load testing and why did no one bother to do any serious load testing.
 
2013-10-06 01:44:52 PM  

Riche: Because of this Obamacare is clearly a complete failure and should be immediately repealed.


and grandstanded at least twice more

/seriously, is it that hard a concept for America in dental to have the population on healthcare paid through taxes?
//oh, right, America, land of the freely charged
 
2013-10-06 01:45:37 PM  
How the hell is a poor person who doesn't have a job that offers insurance supposed to be able to afford private insurance? Can anyone explain that?
 
2013-10-06 01:45:44 PM  
it's not a bug it's a feature to throttle traffic?
 
2013-10-06 01:45:47 PM  

Riche: Because of this Obamacare is clearly a complete failure and should be immediately repealed.


...and more to the point, obviously nobody wants to sign up.
 
2013-10-06 01:46:06 PM  
And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.
 
2013-10-06 01:46:25 PM  

rev. dave: Explain what is load testing and why did no one bother to do any serious load testing.


This is the load testing.  Doh.
 
2013-10-06 01:46:38 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.


Popular? 366 signed-up (some have not paid) in Rhode Island and 373 applications in Connecticut. http://www.wpri.com/news/politics/state-politics/healthsource-ri-obam a care-sign-up-total-at-366-so-far

Page views != paid signups. Just ask Drew.
 
2013-10-06 01:47:27 PM  
Not saying. But subby's mom's website peddling her wares had the same problem except different. No demand.
 
2013-10-06 01:48:36 PM  
Signing into the system now gets you no benefit except paying for your plan sooner. I'm waiting a few more weeks, at least, before I try signing up.
 
2013-10-06 01:48:51 PM  
The Obamacare website: the Simcity of our federal government.
 
2013-10-06 01:50:59 PM  
Error 37?
 
2013-10-06 01:52:25 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.


So you force people to join by threat of penalty, and this you call interest.

LOL you liberals are farked in the head
 
2013-10-06 01:53:22 PM  

Riche: Because of this Obamacare is clearly a complete failure and should be immediately repealed.


This means Health.gov is farked and Michelle Bachmann gets Drew's beer.
 
2013-10-06 01:53:32 PM  
No one thinks this is a giant DoS attack?
 
2013-10-06 01:54:09 PM  

netringer: rev. dave: Explain what is load testing and why did no one bother to do any serious load testing.

This is the load testing.  Doh.


They did say that they assumed a peak demand of twice Medicare.gov's all-time peak demand, which equates to 60,000 concurrent users. They said the demand has consistently been about 250,000 concurrent users.  The problem isn't the ability to handle expected load, the problem is that the expected load was far smaller than their current, actual load.

What they really should have done is to stagger the rollout based on something like last name or zip code, to smooth out the demand spikes.
 
2013-10-06 01:54:45 PM  

Typhoid: No one thinks this is a giant DoS attack?


virtually guarantee it's a DoS attack
 
2013-10-06 01:54:55 PM  
 
2013-10-06 01:55:34 PM  
At least they made the fine $95. If only the actual healthcare was as affordable as the "penalty", this would actually be something.
 
2013-10-06 01:56:50 PM  

PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.


yes, people often complain when things work too well.

The things you libtards tell yourself are hilarious
 
2013-10-06 01:57:33 PM  
Reminds me of:

img.fark.net

We must have crashed Fark at least three times that night.
 
2013-10-06 01:57:58 PM  

stirfrybry: So you force people to join by threat of penalty, and this you call interest.


The penalty this year is miniscule. Given that, the current load really is a gauge of interest.
 
2013-10-06 01:58:23 PM  

Typhoid: No one thinks this is a giant DoS attack?


your tinfoil hat is too tight
 
2013-10-06 01:58:49 PM  
Yeah volume is pretty much the thing that makes the concept of Obamacare a fraud.
 
2013-10-06 01:59:23 PM  
I've worked for software companies that produced software for use by the US government and I've worked at software companies that produced software for use by the private sector.  The differences were staggering and confirmed every stereotype about the government workers you've ever heard.  Utterly depressing.
 
2013-10-06 01:59:38 PM  
Nobody goes there anymore -- it's too crowded.
 
2013-10-06 01:59:45 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.


The Republican Talking Point is that entire storm of traffic to the exchanges was almost entirely the media and Congressional offices, because everyday people are rejecting them en-masse.

Then again, these are the same people who thought Unskewed Polls were the "real" way that the 2012 election would turn out, that global warming is "junk science", and that the Iraqi people would cheer us and celebrate us as liberators and the post-war occupation would be quick and easy.  They aren't known for the best working relationship with facts.
 
2013-10-06 02:00:04 PM  

Fubini: netringer: rev. dave: Explain what is load testing and why did no one bother to do any serious load testing.

This is the load testing.  Doh.

They did say that they assumed a peak demand of twice Medicare.gov's all-time peak demand, which equates to 60,000 concurrent users. They said the demand has consistently been about 250,000 concurrent users.  The problem isn't the ability to handle expected load, the problem is that the expected load was far smaller than their current, actual load.

What they really should have done is to stagger the rollout based on something like last name or zip code, to smooth out the demand spikes.


in other words, incompetent implementation.
 
2013-10-06 02:01:05 PM  

Silverstaff: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

The Republican Talking Point is that entire storm of traffic to the exchanges was almost entirely the media and Congressional offices, because everyday people are rejecting them en-masse.

Then again, these are the same people who thought Unskewed Polls were the "real" way that the 2012 election would turn out, that global warming is "junk science", and that the Iraqi people would cheer us and celebrate us as liberators and the post-war occupation would be quick and easy.  They aren't known for the best working relationship with facts.


So... How is a minimum wage worker supposed to afford these private health plans?
 
2013-10-06 02:02:38 PM  

Fubini: stirfrybry: So you force people to join by threat of penalty, and this you call interest.

The penalty this year is miniscule. Given that, the current load really is a gauge of interest.


1% of income is not miniscule, moron. I guess you don't understand the words "which ever is greater".
Low information voter. You're one
 
2013-10-06 02:02:40 PM  

stirfrybry: PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.

yes, people often complain when things work too well.

The things you libtards tell yourself are hilarious


Not as hilarious as someone who uses "libtard" unironically.
 
2013-10-06 02:04:12 PM  

SauronWasFramed: Whatif you don't pay the fine?


The same thing that happens if you don't pay your taxes. They take it. If you don't have the money, congrats, you get free health care in jail.
 
2013-10-06 02:04:56 PM  

skullkrusher: Typhoid: No one thinks this is a giant DoS attack?

virtually guarantee it's a DoS attack


Conspiracy!
------------------------------
One possible cause of the problems is that hitting "apply" on HealthCare.gov causes 92 separate files, plug-ins and other mammoth swarms of data to stream between the user's computer and the servers powering the government website, said Matthew Hancock, an independent expert in website design. He was able to track the files being requested through a feature in the Firefox browser.
Of the 92 he found, 56 were JavaScript files, including plug-ins that make it easier for code to work on multiple browsers (such as Microsoft Corp's Internet Explorer and Google Inc's Chrome) and let users upload files to HealthCare.gov.

It is not clear why the upload function was included.

"They set up the website in such a way that too many requests to the server arrived at the same time," Hancock said.

He said because so much traffic was going back and forth between the users' computers and the server hosting the government website, it was as if the system was attacking itself.

Hancock described the situation as similar to what happens when hackers conduct a distributed denial of service, or DDOS, attack on a website: they get large numbers of computers to simultaneously request information from the server that runs a website, overwhelming it and causing it to crash or otherwise stumble. "The site basically DDOS'd itself," he said.
 
2013-10-06 02:05:00 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Silverstaff: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

The Republican Talking Point is that entire storm of traffic to the exchanges was almost entirely the media and Congressional offices, because everyday people are rejecting them en-masse.

Then again, these are the same people who thought Unskewed Polls were the "real" way that the 2012 election would turn out, that global warming is "junk science", and that the Iraqi people would cheer us and celebrate us as liberators and the post-war occupation would be quick and easy.  They aren't known for the best working relationship with facts.

So... How is a minimum wage worker supposed to afford these private health plans?


You're saying the subsidy for 100-400% of the poverty level isn't enough?
 
2013-10-06 02:05:45 PM  

vpb: PainInTheASP: Nonsense.  We need to scrap the whole thing and start over.  Preferably with a solution that involves poorhouses and debtor's prison.  Because soshulism.

So, stealing the tax money to pay for these free houses and prison for the poor from the job creators is what you want?

That sounds like facislamic socialism.


ASP is Muslin. It's the best he can do. Thread commenting is hard work.
 
2013-10-06 02:05:56 PM  

someonelse: stirfrybry: PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.

yes, people often complain when things work too well.

The things you libtards tell yourself are hilarious

Not as hilarious as someone who uses "libtard" unironically.


Not as hilarious as people who make up words.
 
2013-10-06 02:06:04 PM  

someonelse: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Silverstaff: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

The Republican Talking Point is that entire storm of traffic to the exchanges was almost entirely the media and Congressional offices, because everyday people are rejecting them en-masse.

Then again, these are the same people who thought Unskewed Polls were the "real" way that the 2012 election would turn out, that global warming is "junk science", and that the Iraqi people would cheer us and celebrate us as liberators and the post-war occupation would be quick and easy.  They aren't known for the best working relationship with facts.

So... How is a minimum wage worker supposed to afford these private health plans?

You're saying the subsidy for 100-400% of the poverty level isn't enough?


I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.
 
2013-10-06 02:07:17 PM  
Wow, those farkers work for Rockstar too?
 
2013-10-06 02:07:21 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.


If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.
 
2013-10-06 02:08:28 PM  

SauronWasFramed: I spent 3 days trying to create an account and was finally able to do so. Two days later, I still haven't been able to log in.

The Obamacare defenders dismiss the failures of the website forgetting :

We have to buy insurance by 12/15 or else. Else what? Whatif you don't pay the fine?

The government compared the failure to apples I phone. We aren't required to buy an iPhone

The insurance isn't affordable or free. If. However, I could log in, I would find out if the subsidy calculator estimate of $19000 with a $12000 out of pocket is accurate or not.


The only failure is a logistics issue. You still have over 100 more days to sign up, so give it a little time.
 
2013-10-06 02:08:40 PM  
Never once had a problem all week creating an account. I only got the "server is down" once and that was after I had signed in and tried to finish the account. Signed in this morning with no wait time, no glitches or anything, and finished my account. The only problem I had is with verifying my identity which requires me to call them apparently (I'm sure that will be fun). But this gives people in the US something to whine about...if it wasn't this, it would be something else.
 
2013-10-06 02:09:05 PM  

DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.


Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.
 
2013-10-06 02:09:19 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: someonelse: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Silverstaff: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

The Republican Talking Point is that entire storm of traffic to the exchanges was almost entirely the media and Congressional offices, because everyday people are rejecting them en-masse.

Then again, these are the same people who thought Unskewed Polls were the "real" way that the 2012 election would turn out, that global warming is "junk science", and that the Iraqi people would cheer us and celebrate us as liberators and the post-war occupation would be quick and easy.  They aren't known for the best working relationship with facts.

So... How is a minimum wage worker supposed to afford these private health plans?

You're saying the subsidy for 100-400% of the poverty level isn't enough?

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.


How about no subsidy for people living in states that do not expand Medicaid?
 
2013-10-06 02:10:35 PM  

stirfrybry: someonelse: stirfrybry: PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.

yes, people often complain when things work too well.

The things you libtards tell yourself are hilarious

Not as hilarious as someone who uses "libtard" unironically.

Not as hilarious as people who make up words.


Lulz. "Libtard" is OK but "unironically" gets your vag all sandy. Internet douche-potatoing at its finest.
 
2013-10-06 02:11:00 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.


So you know how it works, but still ask the question as though you don't know, and are upset other people don't answer your question as though its being asked in good faith?
 
2013-10-06 02:12:23 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: someonelse: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Silverstaff: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

The Republican Talking Point is that entire storm of traffic to the exchanges was almost entirely the media and Congressional offices, because everyday people are rejecting them en-masse.

Then again, these are the same people who thought Unskewed Polls were the "real" way that the 2012 election would turn out, that global warming is "junk science", and that the Iraqi people would cheer us and celebrate us as liberators and the post-war occupation would be quick and easy.  They aren't known for the best working relationship with facts.

So... How is a minimum wage worker supposed to afford these private health plans?

You're saying the subsidy for 100-400% of the poverty level isn't enough?

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.


Your question presumes said subsidies are inadequate. Unless you're confused about how they work? This information is widely available.
 
2013-10-06 02:12:38 PM  

someonelse: stirfrybry: someonelse: stirfrybry: PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.

yes, people often complain when things work too well.

The things you libtards tell yourself are hilarious

Not as hilarious as someone who uses "libtard" unironically.

Not as hilarious as people who make up words.

Lulz. "Libtard" is OK but "unironically" gets your vag all sandy. Internet douche-potatoing at its finest.


You're a retard, and I mean that unironically.
 
2013-10-06 02:13:44 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.


You asked about a person making minimum wage.

Hint:  35k is not minimum wage.

Next question?
 
2013-10-06 02:13:57 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Silverstaff: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

The Republican Talking Point is that entire storm of traffic to the exchanges was almost entirely the media and Congressional offices, because everyday people are rejecting them en-masse.

Then again, these are the same people who thought Unskewed Polls were the "real" way that the 2012 election would turn out, that global warming is "junk science", and that the Iraqi people would cheer us and celebrate us as liberators and the post-war occupation would be quick and easy.  They aren't known for the best working relationship with facts.

So... How is a minimum wage worker supposed to afford these private health plans?


Simple:

1. Medicaid expansion.  The ACA was designed to expand the number of low-income people covered by Medicaid.  A minimum wage job would generally be enough to get Medicaid under the ACA as written, so they wouldn't have to buy private insurance.

This didn't happen in a lot of Red States because it was the one place that Republicans won in court, saying that the Federal government couldn't force states to expand Medicaid coverage, so it's up to state governments to expand it if they choose.  So, they are supposed to get Medicaid, and in many states they can now get it when they couldn't before. . .but in some Red states they can't because Republicans thought it would be worth good political points to shoot holes in the ACA and pray that it fails rather than let the poor get healthcare.

2. Tax subsidies.  For those who would be above the line to get the expanded Medicaid.  The plans are heavily subsidized on a sliding scale, based on income and family size to make the plans affordable to low incomes.

These subsidies are paid for by taxes on medical devices & equipment.  Repeal this tax is another thing Republicans have tried to attach to the Continuing Resolution, which would basically make the ACA a net loss by getting rid of the tax that would fund it.

The ONLY way that somebody can't get affordable health insurance under the ACA now is if they live in a state where the state refuses to expand Medicaid as listed in the ACA, which they explicitly only do so they try to make it fail.
 
2013-10-06 02:14:49 PM  
I would be more impressed with Obamacare if Obama were the first one  sign up for it. Congress should have been the next 535 to sign up for it.
 
2013-10-06 02:14:51 PM  

DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.


Don't waste your time.  He already knows this.  It's a common rhetorical device to keep throwing up question after question in an effort to make something look bad.  Doesn't matter if the question's been answered one hundred times before.
 
2013-10-06 02:15:20 PM  

LoneWolf343: someonelse: stirfrybry: someonelse: stirfrybry: PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.

yes, people often complain when things work too well.

The things you libtards tell yourself are hilarious

Not as hilarious as someone who uses "libtard" unironically.

Not as hilarious as people who make up words.

Lulz. "Libtard" is OK but "unironically" gets your vag all sandy. Internet douche-potatoing at its finest.

You're a retard, and I mean that unironically.


Ironically, people who call other people retards on the internet unironically, are retards themselves.
Buh bye, troll.
 
2013-10-06 02:15:20 PM  

LoneWolf343: someonelse: stirfrybry: someonelse: stirfrybry: PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.

yes, people often complain when things work too well.

The things you libtards tell yourself are hilarious

Not as hilarious as someone who uses "libtard" unironically.

Not as hilarious as people who make up words.

Lulz. "Libtard" is OK but "unironically" gets your vag all sandy. Internet douche-potatoing at its finest.

You're a retard, and I mean that unironically.


Well, that's classy AND substantive. Well done. Your mom should give you a cookie.
 
2013-10-06 02:16:01 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.


You can file for an exception if the cost of the cheapest option available is still more than 8% of your yearly income.  That would be $2,800 for someone making $35k a year.
 
2013-10-06 02:17:03 PM  

someonelse: LoneWolf343: someonelse: stirfrybry: someonelse: stirfrybry: PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.

yes, people often complain when things work too well.

The things you libtards tell yourself are hilarious

Not as hilarious as someone who uses "libtard" unironically.

Not as hilarious as people who make up words.

Lulz. "Libtard" is OK but "unironically" gets your vag all sandy. Internet douche-potatoing at its finest.

You're a retard, and I mean that unironically.

Well, that's classy AND substantive. Well done. Your mom should give you a cookie.


Don't lecture me about class, you dingleberry.
 
2013-10-06 02:18:00 PM  

DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.

So you know how it works, but still ask the question as though you don't know, and are upset other people don't answer your question as though its being asked in good faith?


You're right, I was being Socratic.

My point is that "Obamacare" basically does nothing for most people without insurance. The poorest of the poor can still get Medicaid, and the upper middle class can afford private insurance (or receive it through employers).

The people who need it most are still without healthcare. Great job.
 
2013-10-06 02:18:32 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: someonelse: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Silverstaff: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

The Republican Talking Point is that entire storm of traffic to the exchanges was almost entirely the media and Congressional offices, because everyday people are rejecting them en-masse.

Then again, these are the same people who thought Unskewed Polls were the "real" way that the 2012 election would turn out, that global warming is "junk science", and that the Iraqi people would cheer us and celebrate us as liberators and the post-war occupation would be quick and easy.  They aren't known for the best working relationship with facts.

So... How is a minimum wage worker supposed to afford these private health plans?

You're saying the subsidy for 100-400% of the poverty level isn't enough?

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+will+poor+people+pay+for+obamacare
 
2013-10-06 02:18:46 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.


I seem to remember something about a public option.  Which the Plutocrat Party wouldn't hear of.  Because socialism.
 
2013-10-06 02:19:10 PM  

LoneWolf343: someonelse: LoneWolf343: someonelse: stirfrybry: someonelse: stirfrybry: PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.

yes, people often complain when things work too well.

The things you libtards tell yourself are hilarious

Not as hilarious as someone who uses "libtard" unironically.

Not as hilarious as people who make up words.

Lulz. "Libtard" is OK but "unironically" gets your vag all sandy. Internet douche-potatoing at its finest.

You're a retard, and I mean that unironically.

Well, that's classy AND substantive. Well done. Your mom should give you a cookie.

Don't lecture me about class, you dingleberry.


I don't know wtf your problem is, but you're being quite a dick. Football is on. I'm out. Enjoy your odd little meltdown.
 
2013-10-06 02:19:12 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I've worked for software companies that produced software for use by the US government and I've worked at software companies that produced software for use by the private sector.  The differences were staggering and confirmed every stereotype about the government workers you've ever heard.  Utterly depressing.


This was my gut feeling. Its pretty inexcusable to not have proper capacity in place especially in this case when you knew exactly when to expect load.
 
2013-10-06 02:19:43 PM  
I do not understand why the Republican party does not capitalize on this failure to present to the public their own plan and to explain in clear and definitive terms how their own plan will provide better coverage to all citizens of the nation with substantially less hassle.
 
2013-10-06 02:20:01 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: skullkrusher: Typhoid: No one thinks this is a giant DoS attack?

virtually guarantee it's a DoS attack

Conspiracy!
------------------------------
One possible cause of the problems is that hitting "apply" on HealthCare.gov causes 92 separate files, plug-ins and other mammoth swarms of data to stream between the user's computer and the servers powering the government website, said Matthew Hancock, an independent expert in website design. He was able to track the files being requested through a feature in the Firefox browser.
Of the 92 he found, 56 were JavaScript files, including plug-ins that make it easier for code to work on multiple browsers (such as Microsoft Corp's Internet Explorer and Google Inc's Chrome) and let users upload files to HealthCare.gov.

It is not clear why the upload function was included.

"They set up the website in such a way that too many requests to the server arrived at the same time," Hancock said.

He said because so much traffic was going back and forth between the users' computers and the server hosting the government website, it was as if the system was attacking itself.

Hancock described the situation as similar to what happens when hackers conduct a distributed denial of service, or DDOS, attack on a website: they get large numbers of computers to simultaneously request information from the server that runs a website, overwhelming it and causing it to crash or otherwise stumble. "The site basically DDOS'd itself," he said.


the site went down the moment it went online for the first time. Unless we're to believe there were people sitting at their computers hitting F5 because they couldn't wait to see the obamacare website, I'd say it was an attack
 
2013-10-06 02:20:05 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.

So you know how it works, but still ask the question as though you don't know, and are upset other people don't answer your question as though its being asked in good faith?

You're right, I was being Socratic.

My point is that "Obamacare" basically does nothing for most people without insurance. The poorest of the poor can still get Medicaid, and the upper middle class can afford private insurance (or receive it through employers).

The people who need it most are still without healthcare. Great job.


Uh huh.
 
2013-10-06 02:20:24 PM  

Lee451: I would be more impressed with Obamacare if Obama were the first one  sign up for it. Congress should have been the next 535 to sign up for it.


Their employer provides adequate healthcare.
I don't have to worry about signing up either, and I'm not a member of Congress.

/If you want the government to stop providing a very common employment benefit, that's a whole different issue
 
2013-10-06 02:20:29 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.

I seem to remember something about a public option.  Which the Plutocrat Party wouldn't hear of.  Because socialism.


Single payer is what the democrats should have fought for, instead mandatory private insurance. Oh well.
 
2013-10-06 02:21:55 PM  
Perhaps this explains why that woman drove all the way from Connecticut to DC last week?
 
2013-10-06 02:22:16 PM  

PanicMan: And?  This is a fixable problem.

Plus if they did build up a huge infrastructure to handle the load perfectly from day one, people would be complaining it was overdesigned and too expensive.


========

^This^
 
2013-10-06 02:23:33 PM  

stirfrybry: in other words, incompetent implementation.


Not really. This is a common problem in most engineering domains: road/water infrastructure, power generation, internet, etc. The problem is that the peak load is much higher than the  average (or base) load. Their current peak load is about four times their estimated base load. As a rough estimate, this means they could spend 4x as much money in infrastructure to handle this once-in-a-lifetime event, or they could wait a month for demand to subside. It's true that the quality of service is terrible in that first month, but the tradeoff is savings and efficiency down the road.

To put this in non-computer terms: what happens if everyone in the city flushes their toilet at once? Two things: first, the municipal water supply is overwhelmed and the water output to each house slows to a trickle, and the sewers start to back up as their capacity is exceeded. Eventually everyone's toilet bowl fills back up, but it takes a lot longer than normal, and eventually the sewers all drain, but it takes a lot longer than normal. That system is designed for a certain base load usage, not a peak usage. That way we don't need a 5' diameter sewage pipe under every street in the city.
 
2013-10-06 02:25:56 PM  
So how's the security been so far on this system. If my herpes/genital warts issue ever becomes public, it could really play havoc with my dating prospects.
 
2013-10-06 02:27:22 PM  
I laughed out loud at the "DDoS'd itself" part.  If true, that's something worth teaching budding programmers for years to come.
 
2013-10-06 02:27:29 PM  
Well that's what you get when you outsource all the IT needs to the lowest bidder. You get what you pay for.
 
2013-10-06 02:28:20 PM  

rkiller1: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

Popular? 366 signed-up (some have not paid) in Rhode Island and 373 applications in Connecticut. http://www.wpri.com/news/politics/state-politics/healthsource-ri-obam a care-sign-up-total-at-366-so-far

Page views != paid signups. Just ask Drew.

In Washington, U.S. Sen. Jack Reed said HealthSource RI received 3,000 page views a minute when it opened, which the Democrat called "an amazing number" that demonstrated residents' interest in buying insurance through the new marketplace.


3k a minute is considered amazing? The entire article seemed like they were describing a turtle race.
 
2013-10-06 02:30:24 PM  
Is it just me; or was this thing designed to be a boondoggle from the beginning?

1400 pages, that nobody read; craptastic website architecture.

9 million a day? That's 3% of the population. We had 61 days from October 1st. Here we are, 5 days later, and nobody has been able to even look at their options. We'd need 33.33 days, at that rate, to get everybody signed up.

/ I know that not everyone needs to sign up; but, a bunch of people need to.
 
2013-10-06 02:31:22 PM  

stirfrybry: 1% of income is not miniscule, moron. I guess you don't understand the words "which ever is greater".
Low information voter. You're one


It's only one percent if your income is 400% above poverty level. For a two-person household, that's 62,000 dollars. For a four-person household, that's 94,000 dollars. Below that, it slides between $95 and 1% (as you point out, whichever is greater). There are some families that are completely exempt.

Beyond that, you're just wrong. The average American household spends about 10% of their income on health insurance, and the penalty is (at most) 1%. It's far cheaper to take the penalty than it is to buy insurance. The only people who are buying insurance are the ones who want insurance. If you don't want or don't need insurance you're not going to eat the extra 90% of the cost just because you're already 10% of the way there.
 
2013-10-06 02:32:22 PM  
Testing.  What is it?
 
2013-10-06 02:34:11 PM  

Lee451: I would be more impressed with Obamacare if Obama were the first one  sign up for it. Congress should have been the next 535 to sign up for it.


You do realize that Congress is obligated by law to use the exchange?
 
2013-10-06 02:35:17 PM  

ekdikeo4: People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.


Amazon figured it out a while ago. If they aren't allowed to use commercial services, then maybe they could sweet-talk the NSA into lending them a few hundred racks of servers.
 
2013-10-06 02:35:43 PM  
I think it's awesome that the troll/TP line for Obamacare is now "They didn't anticipate how popular it would be, therefore failure!!!"

I'll wait a couple of weeks before I sign up.  Honestly, this feels like patch day in WoW terms.
 
2013-10-06 02:35:47 PM  
As the grumpy guy in my office likes to say " Business around here would be so much easier if we didn't have customers to worry about."
 
2013-10-06 02:37:02 PM  

Mike_1962: Lee451: I would be more impressed with Obamacare if Obama were the first one  sign up for it. Congress should have been the next 535 to sign up for it.

You do realize that Congress is obligated by law to use the exchange?


Unless they are a democrat. I remember reading something about an exemption.....
 
2013-10-06 02:37:21 PM  

iheartscotch: Here we are, 5 days later, and nobody has been able to even look at their options.


If by nobody, you mean the 13k Kentuckians who have applied and 6k who have enrolled then sure.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/10/05/2861764/kentucky-emerges-as-key-p ol itical.html
 
2013-10-06 02:39:32 PM  
I guess it's true.  Everyone hates 0bummercare and wants nothing to do with it.

/the NASA website is down and that really hurts
 
2013-10-06 02:41:32 PM  

stirfrybry: Typhoid: No one thinks this is a giant DoS attack?

your tinfoil hat is too tight


I live on a planet where shutting down the government because you didn't get your way is par for the course, but a DoS attack is going too far? That's... special.

/It DoS-ing itself is also awe-inspiring
//slowclap.gif
 
2013-10-06 02:42:09 PM  
So, the Republican talking points will be that this is a complete disaster and should be repealed.  (Remember, that's the goal behind their calls to slow it down, not to slow it down to fix technical issues).

Never mind that, website issues aside, that people want to sign up so bad they are flooding the site.

Still, on a tech level, this could have been handled with a rolling rollout.  Social Security did something similar with being able to access your personal info online.  I think they used a simple filter like whether your Sos. # was odd or even.  The rolled out half, then a few months later, when they had gotten the load down, they rolled out the other half.
 
2013-10-06 02:42:40 PM  

SauronWasFramed: I spent 3 days trying to create an account and was finally able to do so. Two days later, I still haven't been able to log in.

The Obamacare defenders dismiss the failures of the website forgetting :

We have to buy insurance by 12/15 or else. Else what? Whatif you don't pay the fine?

The government compared the failure to apples I phone. We aren't required to buy an iPhone

The insurance isn't affordable or free. If. However, I could log in, I would find out if the subsidy calculator estimate of $19000 with a $12000 out of pocket is accurate or not.


It will be ok.  I know it seems traumatic but you're strong and can get through this.
 
2013-10-06 02:43:00 PM  
Managing a hotel would be easy if it weren't for all the guests.

/it's not the AMA's fault that the website is fawlty.
 
2013-10-06 02:44:10 PM  

iheartscotch: Mike_1962: Lee451: I would be more impressed with Obamacare if Obama were the first one  sign up for it. Congress should have been the next 535 to sign up for it.

You do realize that Congress is obligated by law to use the exchange?

Unless they are a democrat. I remember reading something about an exemption.....


Uh huh. Care to provide a citation with some credibility? Should be easy. Laws and exemptions to them are public domain. You're doing nothing but posting the eqivalent of a FW: fw: fw:
 
2013-10-06 02:44:27 PM  
Well it does take a proper bit of planning to make sure everything works properly, not just throwing a cd in and then going "live". Throttling bandwidth and number of concurrent connections are one. sounds like a "director", who has the title, but not the experience. Then, when it does't work like it's supposed to, feigns surprise, and obliquely blames the workers.
 
2013-10-06 02:45:14 PM  
It's almost like millions of people were desperately trying to obtain healthcare at the same time. Imagine that. If there was enough capacity to handle a one-time peak that will never be repeated it would be decried as an example of government waste.

In other news the government is still shut down and the people responsible don't know what they hope to get out of it other than a paycheck.

i.imgur.com


i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-06 02:45:23 PM  

12349876: iheartscotch: Here we are, 5 days later, and nobody has been able to even look at their options.

If by nobody, you mean the 13k Kentuckians who have applied and 6k who have enrolled then sure.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/10/05/2861764/kentucky-emerges-as-key-p ol itical.html


The state's Democratic governor will likely face a serious re-election challenge from a Republican candidate who makes issue of Governor Beshear's willingness to enable poor people to receive affordable health coverage.
 
2013-10-06 02:46:58 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Amazon figured it out a while ago. If they aren't allowed to use commercial services, then maybe they could sweet-talk the NSA into lending them a few hundred racks of servers.


People just throw out Amazon's cloud like it's a silver bullet that can magically and automatically take care of any server workload with minimal cost and effort.

For one, all the data going through the exchanges is covered by HIPAA. This isn't a deal-breaker for cloud computing, but it's certainly not standard practice.

Second, people in the government know that they're going to be in this business for a long time. It's far more cost effective to manage their own server infrastructure than to lease it from a cloud provider in perpetuity, so a dedicated, local server infrastructure is a given. Then, you have the following problem: do you spend a ton of money to develop a cloud based system (which is difficult due to HIPAA constraints) alongside your local version, just so you can meet demand in the first two to four weeks? Or is it more sensible to just develop one version of your infrastructure and ask people to be patient during launch?

Let me put it this way: if the Republicans had OK'ed a bunch of spending to make sure that the health care exchanges run smoothly on day one, I'd have no problem complaining about this launch. Guess what really happened?
 
2013-10-06 02:47:09 PM  
After 5 days of trying over and over again, I finally got to submit an application, but it will *not* let me 'view eligibility results' and will not proceed from there. Is anyone else seeing this? I'm also seeing inconsistencies in the application status.

Should I just keep creating accounts and filing applications until it works?
 
2013-10-06 02:47:14 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: How the hell is a poor person who doesn't have a job that offers insurance supposed to be able to afford private insurance? Can anyone explain that?


I can.  Fark you citizen.  It's the new and improved fascist way, now with even more guns!
 
2013-10-06 02:48:39 PM  

12349876: iheartscotch: Here we are, 5 days later, and nobody has been able to even look at their options.

If by nobody, you mean the 13k Kentuckians who have applied and 6k who have enrolled then sure.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/10/05/2861764/kentucky-emerges-as-key-p ol itical.html


6,000; out of a country of 300,000,000.... That's not even a .01 of 1%. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 1/3 of Americans need to sign up for ACA. That's 100,000,000 Americans. At the rate of 6,000 a day; we'll need 16,666.67 days.
 
2013-10-06 02:49:02 PM  
This is a function of there not being enough computer programmers to make the country function.  That isn't ACA's fault.  It's a failure of schools and colleges to turn out kids with relevant majors.

But keep getting those $200k history degrees, kids!
 
2013-10-06 02:49:53 PM  

OhioUGrad: Never once had a problem all week creating an account. I only got the "server is down" once and that was after I had signed in and tried to finish the account. Signed in this morning with no wait time, no glitches or anything, and finished my account. The only problem I had is with verifying my identity which requires me to call them apparently (I'm sure that will be fun). But this gives people in the US something to whine about...if it wasn't this, it would be something else.


For me it always dies at setting up the security questions. It refused to believe that I didn't use the same entry for each of the three questions (I didn't). How could that be a server load issue?
 
2013-10-06 02:50:03 PM  

crazytrain: After 5 days of trying over and over again, I finally got to submit an application, but it will *not* let me 'view eligibility results' and will not proceed from there. Is anyone else seeing this? I'm also seeing inconsistencies in the application status.

Should I just keep creating accounts and filing applications until it works?


No.  Don't be like those crazed gamer lunatics that spam login after login after login, trying to get into the game the moment that it comes back online.

Take a few days.  Go do something else on the Internet.  Come back in a week or two, I promise you, it'll be there and the system will benefit from your not spamming attempt after attempt to sign up.
 
2013-10-06 02:50:05 PM  

Dimensio: 12349876: iheartscotch: Here we are, 5 days later, and nobody has been able to even look at their options.

If by nobody, you mean the 13k Kentuckians who have applied and 6k who have enrolled then sure.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/10/05/2861764/kentucky-emerges-as-key-p ol itical.html

The state's Democratic governor will likely face a serious re-election challenge from a Republican candidate who makes issue of Governor Beshear's willingness to enable poor people to receive affordable health coverage.

is term limited.  Gone in late 2015 and so far indicating he'll retire from politics.
 
2013-10-06 02:50:11 PM  

cman: I gotta say, whoever decided to use Windows Server should be taken out back and shot


I've literally never used anything but Windows products and don't plan on using anything else, but THIS. Use real technology for a website that's going to experience heavy traffic and probably many trolls trying to fark around with it.

/Also, this may be the laziest article I've ever seen, because I'm pretty sure that we knew this entire thing literally an hour after the site went live.
 
2013-10-06 02:51:37 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.


Which state are you talking about?  The premiums vary by state.
 
2013-10-06 02:51:58 PM  

iheartscotch: 12349876: iheartscotch: Here we are, 5 days later, and nobody has been able to even look at their options.

If by nobody, you mean the 13k Kentuckians who have applied and 6k who have enrolled then sure.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/10/05/2861764/kentucky-emerges-as-key-p ol itical.html

6,000; out of a country of 300,000,000.... That's not even a .01 of 1%. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 1/3 of Americans need to sign up for ACA. That's 100,000,000 Americans. At the rate of 6,000 a day; we'll need 16,666.67 days.


Kentucky has their own exchange.  Only 4 million in Kentucky.  And 1/3 of Americans is a little high in terms of number of people and ridiculously high in terms of policies given many of those people will be in families covered together.
 
2013-10-06 02:52:07 PM  

BumpInTheNight: As much as I chuckle about 'the cloud' and SaaS, this is exactly the sort of problems those concepts are designed to overcome.


I'm not sure that would have worked here, because if I remember correctly HIPPA regulations impose strict rules on how healthcare data can be stored.  It might be that none of the cloud providers could offer a compliant service.
 
2013-10-06 02:52:51 PM  

Mike_1962: iheartscotch: Mike_1962: Lee451: I would be more impressed with Obamacare if Obama were the first one  sign up for it. Congress should have been the next 535 to sign up for it.

You do realize that Congress is obligated by law to use the exchange?

Unless they are a democrat. I remember reading something about an exemption.....

Uh huh. Care to provide a citation with some credibility? Should be easy. Laws and exemptions to them are public domain. You're doing nothing but posting the eqivalent of a FW: fw: fw:


This was on fark a couple days ago.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/325201-no-congressi o nal-obamacare-exemptions (copy/pasta)
 
2013-10-06 02:53:42 PM  

Daniels: This is a function of there not being enough computer programmers to make the country function.  That isn't ACA's fault.  It's a failure of schools and colleges to turn out kids with relevant majors.

But keep getting those $200k history degrees, kids!


============

Huh?  I know dozens of IT people who are unemployed, or underemployed.  Despite this fact, most large IT companies refuse to hire any American IT people, instead preferring to play the H1-B visa game.
 
2013-10-06 02:54:10 PM  
There's an obvious way to handle increased volume.
blog.navypier.com
 
2013-10-06 02:55:08 PM  

Bucky Katt: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.

Which state are you talking about?  The premiums vary by state.


FL specifically
 
2013-10-06 02:55:10 PM  

12349876: Dimensio: 12349876: iheartscotch: Here we are, 5 days later, and nobody has been able to even look at their options.

If by nobody, you mean the 13k Kentuckians who have applied and 6k who have enrolled then sure.

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/10/05/2861764/kentucky-emerges-as-key-p ol itical.html

The state's Democratic governor will likely face a serious re-election challenge from a Republican candidate who makes issue of Governor Beshear's willingness to enable poor people to receive affordable health coverage. is term limited.  Gone in late 2015 and so far indicating he'll retire from politics.


And I'll add he'll be 71 when he leaves the governor's office, which is "opponents will question his age" territory if he runs for something else.
 
2013-10-06 02:55:43 PM  

iheartscotch: 6,000; out of a country of 300,000,000.... That's not even a .01 of 1%. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 1/3 of Americans need to sign up for ACA. That's 100,000,000 Americans. At the rate of 6,000 a day; we'll need 16,666.67 days.


It's not out of 300 million, it's out of the pool of currently uninsured people who live in a state without a state exchange. The number of uninsured people in the US stands at about 45 million, I don't know how many live in states without state exchanges.
 
2013-10-06 02:55:56 PM  
Dudes, I have one anti-Obama friend who, in all seriousness, said that NOT ONE PERSON has bought Obamacare since the exchanges opened.

She said this by quoting a report that said that.

The report was dated 10/3/13, 0940.

Yes, Obamacare is a failure because NO cash has made it over the table in the initial 48 hours.  Never mind how long it takes to actually sign up for insurance, go to the underwriters, etc etc...
 
2013-10-06 02:56:26 PM  

Fubini: what happens if everyone in the city flushes their toilet at once?


It would mean the McRib is back.
 
2013-10-06 02:56:46 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-06 02:57:00 PM  
This is what you get when you force awarding contracts to low bidders. Someone doesn't understand that streaming 90 files between a client and the server in a high-volume application is probably not a good idea. Or they were just lazy and made a crappy design.
 
2013-10-06 02:59:56 PM  

MBooda: There's an obvious way to handle increased volume.


4.bp.blogspot.com

Also works for anti-gubbmint whining.
 
2013-10-06 03:00:07 PM  

Fubini: iheartscotch: 6,000; out of a country of 300,000,000.... That's not even a .01 of 1%. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 1/3 of Americans need to sign up for ACA. That's 100,000,000 Americans. At the rate of 6,000 a day; we'll need 16,666.67 days.

It's not out of 300 million, it's out of the pool of currently uninsured people who live in a state without a state exchange. The number of uninsured people in the US stands at about 45 million, I don't know how many live in states without state exchanges.


Ok, let's say that 20,000,000 Americans need to sign up for ACA and they live in states without exchanges. At 6,000 a day; we'd need 3,333.33 days.
 
2013-10-06 03:00:23 PM  

anfrind: BumpInTheNight: As much as I chuckle about 'the cloud' and SaaS, this is exactly the sort of problems those concepts are designed to overcome.

I'm not sure that would have worked here, because if I remember correctly HIPPA regulations impose strict rules on how healthcare data can be stored.  It might be that none of the cloud providers could offer a compliant service.


The cloud providers will try to tell you that it's all kosher as long as all data is strongly encrypted whenever it leaves the server (even if it's just going to another server in the cloud). Supposedly it's impossible for Amazon's employees to access a currently running EC2 session, but I would sincerely doubt that there's not one person there who can. I do know that a lot of people in the industry are being very conservative about the cloud approach, and that's only if they haven't already rejected it out of hand.
 
2013-10-06 03:01:32 PM  

netringer: Riche: Because of this Obamacare is clearly a complete failure and should be immediately repealed.

...and more to the point, obviously nobody wants to sign up.


By the same logic paying taxes sure is popular around April 15th, and that popularity is a sign that we should raise those taxes and all those people just falling all over themselves to pay.
 
2013-10-06 03:01:43 PM  

ekdikeo4: People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.  So, although it looks kind of bad at start, just like with GTA Online, traffic will eventually level out, and things will be "normal".


Any rational person would have launched the site a month or months before day that people were going to start having to sign up. Get the bugs out before. It's not like they haven't had a few years of knowing this date was coming.
 
2013-10-06 03:05:31 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: ekdikeo4: People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.  So, although it looks kind of bad at start, just like with GTA Online, traffic will eventually level out, and things will be "normal".

Any rational person would have launched the site a month or months before day that people were going to start having to sign up. Get the bugs out before. It's not like they haven't had a few years of knowing this date was coming.


Massive new programs are going to have bugs, glitches and problems.  Anyone thinking otherwise is retarded.

Opening the website months ago would have only tested the ability of the website to function with no traffic on it.  The problem comes from the flood of traffic, not the website itself.
 
2013-10-06 03:05:40 PM  

SauronWasFramed: I spent 3 days trying to create an account and was finally able to do so. Two days later, I still haven't been able to log in.

The Obamacare defenders dismiss the failures of the website forgetting :

We have to buy insurance by 12/15 or else. Else what? Whatif you don't pay the fine?

The government compared the failure to apples I phone. We aren't required to buy an iPhone

The insurance isn't affordable or free. If. However, I could log in, I would find out if the subsidy calculator estimate of $19000 with a $12000 out of pocket is accurate or not.


Couple of things:

1) You have months to get on and sign up for Healthcare..  Doesn't have to be today.

2) You can go to your States exchange if you want - you don't have to use the Federal Exchange.

3) You can get your healthcare from your JOb

4) You can find healthcare from insurance companies directly if you want.

So you have time and choices...


AS for paying the fine for not having insurance... That is tacked on your IRS income taxes.  So it will come out of your tax return.. eventually
 
2013-10-06 03:05:44 PM  

iheartscotch: Fubini: iheartscotch: 6,000; out of a country of 300,000,000.... That's not even a .01 of 1%. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 1/3 of Americans need to sign up for ACA. That's 100,000,000 Americans. At the rate of 6,000 a day; we'll need 16,666.67 days.

It's not out of 300 million, it's out of the pool of currently uninsured people who live in a state without a state exchange. The number of uninsured people in the US stands at about 45 million, I don't know how many live in states without state exchanges.

Ok, let's say that 20,000,000 Americans need to sign up for ACA and they live in states without exchanges. At 6,000 a day; we'd need 3,333.33 days.


Given that your numbers are from a state exchange, it still doesn't make sense. The federal exchange was designed for 60,000 concurrent users, and it doesn't take all day for one person to sign their family up for healthcare, so that multiple generations of clients can access the exchanges each day. Assume there are five generations, and you're looking at signing up 300,000 policies per day. Note that lots of policies will be written for more than one person, and that people could hypothetically be on the exchanges all day, but I'm just assuming that everyone tries to get on between 5:00PM and 9:00PM after work.

Also, bear in mind that the federal exchanges have released no numbers whatsoever, so both you and I are both engaging in wild-ass speculation.
 
2013-10-06 03:06:17 PM  

Fissile: Daniels: This is a function of there not being enough computer programmers to make the country function.  That isn't ACA's fault.  It's a failure of schools and colleges to turn out kids with relevant majors.

But keep getting those $200k history degrees, kids!

============

Huh?  I know dozens of IT people who are unemployed, or underemployed.  Despite this fact, most large IT companies refuse to hire any American IT people, instead preferring to play the H1-B visa game.


If you know unemployed or underemployed IT people, they're either not looking very hard, are convinced their PASCAL skills should be all they need, or they're unwilling to relocate.  Because there are several thousand programming jobs in NYC alone.  Places are hiring H1B's because they need bodies to fill the seats.
 
2013-10-06 03:07:18 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Bucky Katt: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.

Which state are you talking about?  The premiums vary by state.

FL specifically


Gov. Baldemort.  You should move to a state that isn't run by evil.
 
2013-10-06 03:07:23 PM  

Ishidan: Dudes, I have one anti-Obama friend who, in all seriousness, said that NOT ONE PERSON has bought Obamacare since the exchanges opened.


I've been wondering the same. I'm interested but I can't enroll because of the website. Has a single person actually enrolled? Is there a single verified, non-astroturfer, actual American citizen who has enrolled? If so, what are the numbers? How many have actually enrolled vs those trying to enroll? It would be comforting to know, one way or the other.
 
2013-10-06 03:08:05 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.


What $35k job doesn't offer health insurance?  Maybe its time you find a better employer?
 
2013-10-06 03:08:29 PM  

Daniels: This is a function of there not being enough computer programmers to make the country function.  That isn't ACA's fault.  It's a failure of schools and colleges to turn out kids with relevant majors.

But keep getting those $200k history degrees, kids!


I'm not really sure what you're arguing, but I'm with you.
 
2013-10-06 03:08:34 PM  
While i know the Issues will be ironed out in time, i am rather disappointed that despite a shiat ton of evidence showing people  are likely to mass on a new web service when it opens and if said service is not prepared for the rush they have major problems.

Whoever is in charge of the  techs running the website for Obamacare failed to learn from the failings of others and did this to themselves.
 
2013-10-06 03:08:58 PM  

Fubini: Second, people in the government know that they're going to be in this business for a long time. It's far more cost effective to manage their own server infrastructure than to lease it from a cloud provider in perpetuity, so a dedicated, local server infrastructure is a given. Then, you have the following problem: do you spend a ton of money to develop a cloud based system (which is difficult due to HIPAA constraints) alongside your local version, just so you can meet demand in the first two to four weeks? Or is it more sensible to just develop one version of your infrastructure and ask people to be patient during launch?


But it's not their server structure. It is outsourced to a Canadian company. Same as the Amazon cloud but it says 'eh when it crashes.

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, which oversaw development of the site, declined to make any of its IT experts available for interviews. CGI Group Inc, the Canadian contractor that built HealthCare.gov, is "declining to comment at this time," said spokeswoman Linda Odorisio.

http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-experts-architecture-obamacare-websi te- 154731693--sector.html
 
2013-10-06 03:09:19 PM  
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/treasury-secretary-stonewalls-whe n -asked-how-many-have-signed-obamacare_759310.html

"How many people have signed up for Obamacare?"
"we aren't sure, we crashed the server when we tried to check."
 
2013-10-06 03:10:01 PM  
sounds more like what happens when you get your server from the lowest bidder
 
2013-10-06 03:10:03 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Single payer is what the democrats should have fought for, instead mandatory private insurance. Oh well.


Democrats made the mistake of thinking things would be better if they compromised with Republicans.  Should have shot for Single Payer.  But that would require a Constitutional Amendment.
 
2013-10-06 03:10:41 PM  

DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.


I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?
 
2013-10-06 03:10:53 PM  

shtychkn: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.

What $35k job doesn't offer health insurance?  Maybe its time you find a better employer?


Wasn't that the point of all this bulls**t?
 
2013-10-06 03:12:00 PM  

LordOfThePings: MBooda: There's an obvious way to handle increased volume.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]

Also works for anti-gubbmint whining.


Some prefer the natural solution.

bloggingblue.com
/or *favorited!*ing
 
2013-10-06 03:12:47 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?


You really need to go wiki how this shiat works.  Expecting everyone else to educate you on the basics is humiliating.  Or it should be, at least.
 
2013-10-06 03:14:29 PM  

Infernalist: Benjimin_Dover: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?

You really need to go wiki how this shiat works.  Expecting everyone else to educate you on the basics is humiliating.  Or it should be, at least.


You can just say "I don't know."
 
2013-10-06 03:15:08 PM  

Infernalist: Benjimin_Dover: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?

You really need to go wiki how this shiat works.  Expecting everyone else to educate you on the basics is humiliating.  Or it should be, at least.


Bottom line is most people who are currently employed without insurance still aren't going to be able to afford insurance. Heralding Obamacare as some sort of useful national healthcare system is what's humiliating. It it should be, at least.
 
2013-10-06 03:16:01 PM  

Fubini: iheartscotch: Fubini: iheartscotch: 6,000; out of a country of 300,000,000.... That's not even a .01 of 1%. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 1/3 of Americans need to sign up for ACA. That's 100,000,000 Americans. At the rate of 6,000 a day; we'll need 16,666.67 days.

It's not out of 300 million, it's out of the pool of currently uninsured people who live in a state without a state exchange. The number of uninsured people in the US stands at about 45 million, I don't know how many live in states without state exchanges.

Ok, let's say that 20,000,000 Americans need to sign up for ACA and they live in states without exchanges. At 6,000 a day; we'd need 3,333.33 days.

Given that your numbers are from a state exchange, it still doesn't make sense. The federal exchange was designed for 60,000 concurrent users, and it doesn't take all day for one person to sign their family up for healthcare, so that multiple generations of clients can access the exchanges each day. Assume there are five generations, and you're looking at signing up 300,000 policies per day. Note that lots of policies will be written for more than one person, and that people could hypothetically be on the exchanges all day, but I'm just assuming that everyone tries to get on between 5:00PM and 9:00PM after work.

Also, bear in mind that the federal exchanges have released no numbers whatsoever, so both you and I are both engaging in wild-ass speculation.


I agree. I'm betting that everyone is trying to do the insurance thingy from 5pm to 9pm.

I realize that there would be a lot of families going in on one policy for everybody; I'm just fed up with the lack of any forethought with the execution.

They could have opened the exchanges 2 years ago; or they could have done it by last name ; or they could have scheduled everybody a time; or they could have put a rep down at the post office for people who can't use computers or can't afford Internet.
 
2013-10-06 03:16:21 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Infernalist: Benjimin_Dover: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?

You really need to go wiki how this shiat works.  Expecting everyone else to educate you on the basics is humiliating.  Or it should be, at least.

Bottom line is most people who are currently employed without insurance still aren't going to be able to afford insurance. Heralding Obamacare as some sort of useful national healthcare system is what's humiliating. It it should be, at least.


lol stop being stupid.
 
2013-10-06 03:17:17 PM  
Shenanigans, I was told by the right-wing that the Obummercare was unpopular and nobody wanted it.
 
2013-10-06 03:18:17 PM  

saturn badger: But it's not their server structure. It is outsourced to a Canadian company. Same as the Amazon cloud but it says 'eh when it crashes.


In this case, "building" a website is not the same thing as "hosting and running it". I don't know who or where they're hosting it.

But, regardless of whether the government is leasing servers or they're running their own somewhere, both approaches are fundamentally different from a cloud-computing approach. The former centralizes data and processing in just a few physical locations, and communication between co-located servers doesn't need to be encrypted. In contrast, the assumption in cloud computing is that any server may live anywhere in the world. This requires a whole paradigm shift in terms of data protection, and all that protection takes a lot of compute time in terms of encryption and decryption.

Amazon loves it when you encrypt data that ends up getting streamed to another virtual server co-located on the same physical host. They get paid to do a bunch of useless processing.
 
2013-10-06 03:18:19 PM  

Daniels: Fissile: Daniels: This is a function of there not being enough computer programmers to make the country function.  That isn't ACA's fault.  It's a failure of schools and colleges to turn out kids with relevant majors.

But keep getting those $200k history degrees, kids!

============

Huh?  I know dozens of IT people who are unemployed, or underemployed.  Despite this fact, most large IT companies refuse to hire any American IT people, instead preferring to play the H1-B visa game.

If you know unemployed or underemployed IT people, they're either not looking very hard, are convinced their PASCAL skills should be all they need, or they're unwilling to relocate.  Because there are several thousand programming jobs in NYC alone.  Places are hiring H1B's because they need bodies to fill the seats.


============

Think so?  See here:  http://www.cringely.com/2013/07/18/so-thats-how-h-1b-visa-fraud-is-do n e/
 
2013-10-06 03:18:21 PM  
I  sure don't understand the reason for fining folks for not getting healthcare. If they can't afford it, then you fine them, you set them back even further from getting it. Nice logic Obama.
 
2013-10-06 03:20:22 PM  

Infernalist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Infernalist: Benjimin_Dover: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?

You really need to go wiki how this shiat works.  Expecting everyone else to educate you on the basics is humiliating.  Or it should be, at least.

Bottom line is most people who are currently employed without insurance still aren't going to be able to afford insurance. Heralding Obamacare as some sort of useful national healthcare system is what's humiliating. It it should be, at least.

lol stop being stupid.


You're right, sorry. They may be able to afford a policy. It's the deductible and the out-of-pocket costs that they won't be able to afford.

Oh well, there's always the ER!
 
2013-10-06 03:21:20 PM  

rkiller1: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

Popular? 366 signed-up (some have not paid) in Rhode Island and 373 applications in Connecticut. http://www.wpri.com/news/politics/state-politics/healthsource-ri-obam a care-sign-up-total-at-366-so-far

Page views != paid signups. Just ask Drew.


I have employer-provided health insurance but it's not a great plan. When it calms down, I'm going to look at what's available on the exchanges.

I'm not going to buy the first time I go on the site. I'm going to see what's available, do some math, talk to my spouse. I imagine I'm not the only one who wants to think about the options before making a purchase.
 
2013-10-06 03:23:02 PM  
Take away the option to have any other form of insurance, and Obamacare works.

Take away all the Republicans, and the one-party government works.

Take away all the deniers, and AGW works.

Take away all the dissenters, and dictatorship works.

Take away all the wreckers, and socialism works.

Take away all the Jews, and the Third Reich works.
 
2013-10-06 03:24:05 PM  
i7.photobucket.com

So the weekend after they start the program, they are going to do maintenance? Because the weekend after the start would be a super unpopular time for people to look at the program
 
2013-10-06 03:25:39 PM  

Pick: I  sure don't understand the reason for fining folks for not getting healthcare. If they can't afford it, then you fine them, you set them back even further from getting it. Nice logic Obama.


People that destitute will get free or subsidized healthcare.
 
2013-10-06 03:30:09 PM  

Fubini: Pick: I  sure don't understand the reason for fining folks for not getting healthcare. If they can't afford it, then you fine them, you set them back even further from getting it. Nice logic Obama.

People that destitute will get free or subsidized healthcare.


and if you can't out-of-pocket $290 a month for the bronze plan? It'd be one thing if they were handing you the money to spend on this, but it comes back on your taxes.
 
2013-10-06 03:32:07 PM  

OhioUGrad: Never once had a problem all week creating an account. I only got the "server is down" once and that was after I had signed in and tried to finish the account. Signed in this morning with no wait time, no glitches or anything, and finished my account. The only problem I had is with verifying my identity which requires me to call them apparently (I'm sure that will be fun). But this gives people in the US something to whine about...if it wasn't this, it would be something else.


Started my account not long after this article popped up and so far it has been fairly easy. got about 5 minutes of a heavy load message then smooth sailing from there. Also a couple probs with the identity verification, as it apparently didn't like one of my answers or something. At first it said to call, which I didnt want to bother with so I skipped that part, finished the rest of the app. and went back, now it is asking me for a file with my ID attached. I tried uploading a passport pdf file which was 250kb and got a message saying that the file limit was 10mb and i couldn't upload it. LOL. I'll try again later. Took me all of a half hour tho.
 
2013-10-06 03:41:16 PM  

Fissile: Daniels: Fissile: Daniels: This is a function of there not being enough computer programmers to make the country function.  That isn't ACA's fault.  It's a failure of schools and colleges to turn out kids with relevant majors.

But keep getting those $200k history degrees, kids!

============

Huh?  I know dozens of IT people who are unemployed, or underemployed.  Despite this fact, most large IT companies refuse to hire any American IT people, instead preferring to play the H1-B visa game.

If you know unemployed or underemployed IT people, they're either not looking very hard, are convinced their PASCAL skills should be all they need, or they're unwilling to relocate.  Because there are several thousand programming jobs in NYC alone.  Places are hiring H1B's because they need bodies to fill the seats.

============

Think so?  See here:  http://www.cringely.com/2013/07/18/so-thats-how-h-1b-visa-fraud-is-do n e/


Yes, H1B fraud happens.  That doesn't make any point other than H1B fraud happens and certainly doesn't make the point that companies prefer H1Bs as candidates.

Here's what the H1B issue boils down to: If you ask someone to move from India to any American City, they will say yes almost 100% of the time.  That is not the case for US-based programmers who, in general, are less willing to relocate.  So, I can set up a code shop in Nowheresburg, South Dakota, and Indian programmers will happily go there, while US-based programmers, usually, will not.

sethen320: Daniels: This is a function of there not being enough computer programmers to make the country function.  That isn't ACA's fault.  It's a failure of schools and colleges to turn out kids with relevant majors.

But keep getting those $200k history degrees, kids!

I'm not really sure what you're arguing, but I'm with you.


I'm arguing that this massive programming project (which is what the exchanges are) was bound to failure because there aren't enough IT people in the US to make them, test them, and launch them in the time frame given.  The users (Obamacare enrolees) are basically the testers.  And unbelievably the number of programmers graduating college isn't increasing.
 
2013-10-06 03:46:04 PM  

ekdikeo4: People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.  So, although it looks kind of bad at start, just like with GTA Online, traffic will eventually level out, and things will be "normal".


They could have rolled it out state by state, that may have taken care of it.

It just goes to show that for all the screaming from the GOP that no one wanted Obamacare, plenty of people do want to be able to buy insurance who haven't been able to or are looking for cheaper options.

A friend of mine is super happy that she and her husband can now get something other than cobra which is ridiculously expensive.
 
2013-10-06 03:50:15 PM  

chasd00: This was my gut feeling. Its pretty inexcusable to not have proper capacity in place especially in this case when you knew exactly when to expect load.


It isn't that they didn't know when to expect the load, they underestimated how large that load would be. Something that happens all the time in the private sector.

Lee451: I would be more impressed with Obamacare if Obama were the first one  sign up for it. Congress should have been the next 535 to sign up for it.


Might I suggest you try to learn what something is before spouting bullshiat?
There is nothing to sign up for. You purchase private insurance, which is facilitated by the exchanges. You can get subsidies if your income is below a certain threshold (which ever member of Congress would be in excess of).

iheartscotch: 9 million a day? That's 3% of the population. We had 61 days from October 1st. Here we are, 5 days later, and nobody has been able to even look at their options. We'd need 33.33 days, at that rate, to get everybody signed up.

/ I know that not everyone needs to sign up; but, a bunch of people need to.


I love when people end their posts with "This post is entirely BS"
1) Households are what is relevant, not population. For example, the vast majority of the 60 million children under 15 (20% of the population) wont be going to the website, those not already covered will have parents doing so.
2) About 60% of people are covered by employer healthcare and most have no reason to visit.
3) Government provides healthcare to many Americans through VA, Tricare, Medicare
4) There are about 15% of Americans not covered by insurance and 10% that have private plans.

Assuming 25% of American households go through the exchanges, then you have a total of about 25 million. That would be less than 3 days at 9 million per day. Now you also have a large number of people just looking and people visiting multiple times. but it shows how utterly stupid counting every man, woman, and child in the US is.

Fubini: Beyond that, you're just wrong. The average American household spends about 10% of their income on health insurance, and the penalty is (at most) 1%. It's far cheaper to take the penalty than it is to buy insurance. The only people who are buying insurance are the ones who want insurance. If you don't want or don't need insurance you're not going to eat the extra 90% of the cost just because you're already 10% of the way there.


That is why the penalty escalates. In 2016 it will be $695 (for a single individual or $2085 for a family) or 2.5% of income. Still less than insurance, but a lot to spend to not receive a benefit.
 
2013-10-06 03:56:34 PM  
Love the 800 number on the page: 1-800-318-2596 - since there's no letter for 1 on the keypad, the number spells 1-800-farkYO(U).
 
2013-10-06 03:57:49 PM  
I'm sure that when Congress funded the IT infrastructure for this program that they made sure that it would be a complete success in very way.
 
2013-10-06 03:59:08 PM  

revrendjim: This IT farkup was actually part of the Republican strategy. I remember the Teabagger arguments for not creatinga state-run exchange, and in addition to the obvious point of refusing to cooperate with Obamanism, they thought that they could overburden the federal system and cause it to fail, giving them another excuse to repeal Obamacare.

Servers and IT support cost money, and not much was budgeted for the federal exchange because they originally thought that few, if any, states would willingly cede control of their exchanges to the federal government. Of course now that they have, the obvious solution would be to ask Congress for some additional funding to support the rollout of Obamacare. I'm sure they'll get right on that.


Here in Hawaii, the Feds gave the state $203 million dollars to create the "Hawaii health exchange."   they immediately paid $54 million to a Virgina based company to create and run the website.  FIFTY FOUR MILLION DOLLARS.

So far, only two insurers have signed up for the Hawaii health exchange , and they have been unable to get their website to display prices, compare benefits and purchase plans.  The service offers consumers the opportunity to pay 2% more than if they just went to the company's own website.

The marketing director announced to the press:  "(The rates are) really not something that people need right now. "The feedback we got from the majority of people was they didn't want to see plans yet."

You can't blame the Republicans for this completely botched and tone deaf mess.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Hawaii-health-exchange-opens-with ou t-plan-specs-4859922.php
 
2013-10-06 04:03:33 PM  

Daniels: Yes, H1B fraud happens. That doesn't make any point other than H1B fraud happens and certainly doesn't make the point that companies prefer H1Bs as candidates.

Here's what the H1B issue boils down to: If you ask someone to move from India to any American City, they will say yes almost 100% of the time. That is not the case for US-based programmers who, in general, are less willing to relocate. So, I can set up a code shop in Nowheresburg, South Dakota, and Indian programmers will happily go there, while US-based programmers, usually, will not.


=============

No Americans would be interested in working in Bumfark, Flyover?  How would you know?  American IT workers are shut out from the hiring process from the jump.  You didn't read the indictment, did you?  Those ads were placed on behalf of the IT companies as a pretext to demand H1-Bs from the feds.  The ads were written is a such a way as to ensure no American IT pros could possibly qualify.   They were not going consider any American IT workers, period.  This was not just a few IT companies either.

BTW, why set up a IT center in Bumfark, Flyover only to staff it exclusively with South Asians?  If you don't need the place to be near New York, or LA, why not just set up shop in India where the talent is?

Your rhetoric is typical Tea-Party/GOP/free market.  Big business games the system to squeeze labor, and you blame the victims.
 
2013-10-06 04:08:40 PM  
FTA -
"U.S. Chief Technology Officer Todd Park said the government expected HealthCare.gov to draw 50,000 to 60,000 simultaneous users, but instead it has drawn as many as 250,000 at a time since it launched Oct. 1."

"These bugs were functions of volume,'' Park said. "Take away the volume and it works.''


Perhaps you should consult Google or Facebook --- their sites seem to work just fine, regardless of the amount of traffic they get ( and it's a large multiple of visitors compared to 50,000 - 60,000 simultaneous users).
 
2013-10-06 04:09:03 PM  
I'm a programmer working for a governmental entity, so I'm really getting a kick out of these responses.
 
2013-10-06 04:13:33 PM  

Pick: I  sure don't understand the reason for fining folks for not getting healthcare. If they can't afford it, then you fine them, you set them back even further from getting it. Nice logic Obama.


Because ACA won't work unless you have enough young/healthy people in it to pay for the old/sick ones.  A bit like how SS works.  It works pretty much the way most government programs work - get one group of people to pay for benefits to another.
 
2013-10-06 04:22:16 PM  

PainInTheASP: ekdikeo4: People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.  So, although it looks kind of bad at start, just like with GTA Online, traffic will eventually level out, and things will be "normal".

Nonsense.  We need to scrap the whole thing and start over.  Preferably with a solution that involves poorhouses and debtor's prison.  Because soshulism.


Hmmmm... don't sign-up, get a fine. Don't pay the fine - go to jail.

Sounds a bit like debtor's prison to me.
 
2013-10-06 04:23:48 PM  

pedobearapproved: [i7.photobucket.com image 800x320]

So the weekend after they start the program, they are going to do maintenance? Because the weekend after the start would be a super unpopular time for people to look at the program


"Maintenance" is a catch-all term for...almost everything server-related, really.

/also, IE? Really?
 
2013-10-06 04:31:22 PM  

pedobearapproved: Fubini: Pick: I  sure don't understand the reason for fining folks for not getting healthcare. If they can't afford it, then you fine them, you set them back even further from getting it. Nice logic Obama.

People that destitute will get free or subsidized healthcare.

and if you can't out-of-pocket $290 a month for the bronze plan? It'd be one thing if they were handing you the money to spend on this, but it comes back on your taxes.


Wrong. If you choose to use your subsidy for your health insurance premiums then it goes directly to the insurance company and is subtracted from your portion of the bill. You never see it. I know this because I chose that option when the exchange finally worked for me.
 
2013-10-06 04:34:40 PM  

xmasbaby: revrendjim: This IT farkup was actually part of the Republican strategy. I remember the Teabagger arguments for not creatinga state-run exchange, and in addition to the obvious point of refusing to cooperate with Obamanism, they thought that they could overburden the federal system and cause it to fail, giving them another excuse to repeal Obamacare.

Servers and IT support cost money, and not much was budgeted for the federal exchange because they originally thought that few, if any, states would willingly cede control of their exchanges to the federal government. Of course now that they have, the obvious solution would be to ask Congress for some additional funding to support the rollout of Obamacare. I'm sure they'll get right on that.

Here in Hawaii, the Feds gave the state $203 million dollars to create the "Hawaii health exchange."   they immediately paid $54 million to a Virgina based company to create and run the website.  FIFTY FOUR MILLION DOLLARS.

So far, only two insurers have signed up for the Hawaii health exchange , and they have been unable to get their website to display prices, compare benefits and purchase plans.  The service offers consumers the opportunity to pay 2% more than if they just went to the company's own website.

The marketing director announced to the press:  "(The rates are) really not something that people need right now. "The feedback we got from the majority of people was they didn't want to see plans yet."

You can't blame the Republicans for this completely botched and tone deaf mess.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Hawaii-health-exchange-opens-with ou t-plan-specs-4859922.php


You understand that I was talking about the federal exchange, right? Hawaii has every right to fark up their own exchange, but that's a different subject.
 
2013-10-06 04:37:51 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Infernalist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Infernalist: Benjimin_Dover: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?

You really need to go wiki how this shiat works.  Expecting everyone else to educate you on the basics is humiliating.  Or it should be, at least.

Bottom line is most people who are currently employed without insurance still aren't going to be able to afford insurance. Heralding Obamacare as some sort of useful national healthcare system is what's humiliating. It it should be, at least.

lol stop being stupid.

You're right, sorry. They may be able to afford a policy. It's the deductible and the out-of-pocket costs that they won't be able to afford.

Oh well, there's always the ER!


It's okay... most of us accept that there's some freeloaders like you out there that refuse to play nice with everyone else. So yes, you so have the ER and you can pay the fine, and most of this country is alright with that.

Honestly, just because you're too uninformed to know how it works or too disingenuous to accept it, doesn't mean everyone feels the same. Definitely stay in Florida, you fit right in.
 
2013-10-06 04:44:55 PM  

Yeah_Right: PainInTheASP: ekdikeo4: People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.  So, although it looks kind of bad at start, just like with GTA Online, traffic will eventually level out, and things will be "normal".

Nonsense.  We need to scrap the whole thing and start over.  Preferably with a solution that involves poorhouses and debtor's prison.  Because soshulism.

Hmmmm... don't sign-up, get a fine. Don't pay the fine - go to jail.

Sounds a bit like debtor's prison to me.


No, the only enforcement action is to deduct from your tax refunds. The IRS can't even pursue normal enforcement action beyond that (e.g. liens and levies) apart sending you letters stating what you already know.
 
2013-10-06 04:46:30 PM  

Fissile: Daniels: Yes, H1B fraud happens. That doesn't make any point other than H1B fraud happens and certainly doesn't make the point that companies prefer H1Bs as candidates.

Here's what the H1B issue boils down to: If you ask someone to move from India to any American City, they will say yes almost 100% of the time. That is not the case for US-based programmers who, in general, are less willing to relocate. So, I can set up a code shop in Nowheresburg, South Dakota, and Indian programmers will happily go there, while US-based programmers, usually, will not.

=============

No Americans would be interested in working in Bumfark, Flyover?  How would you know?  American IT workers are shut out from the hiring process from the jump.  You didn't read the indictment, did you?  Those ads were placed on behalf of the IT companies as a pretext to demand H1-Bs from the feds.  The ads were written is a such a way as to ensure no American IT pros could possibly qualify.   They were not going consider any American IT workers, period.  This was not just a few IT companies either.

BTW, why set up a IT center in Bumfark, Flyover only to staff it exclusively with South Asians?  If you don't need the place to be near New York, or LA, why not just set up shop in India where the talent is?

Your rhetoric is typical Tea-Party/GOP/free market.  Big business games the system to squeeze labor, and you blame the victims.


No.  My rhetoric is what is actually happening in the industry.  Not everything is farking politics.

Your indictment is meaningless in making a general point about the IT Industry.  It means someone committed fraud and was caught.  It does not prove an industry-wide conspiracy to not hire American programmers.  Please note the important sentence from the article itself: . He could be innocent for all I know, but the crime, itself, is I think fairly common and worth understanding.The entire article is the author's conjecture about a crime which he thinks is common, but has no idea whether that's true or not.

The reasons to not open a code shop IN India is because it's a nightmare.  Your team works the opposite hours as you, they are difficult (if not impossible) to get a hold of because many of them don't have phones and are asleep while you're working, you need to find a competent supervisor willing to live in a third world country for an extended amount of time, and reviewing their work becomes a challenge because it's hard to set up a time to talk to them.  The lack of communication means requirements get translated poorly and test plans don't get written so you quite often get shiat code back.  And if you have a question, you can't get it answered until tomorrow.  It's awful, and anyone who's dealt with it knows it's awful.

I didn't once say Americans "refused" to move to the middle of nowhere for a job.  I said it's harder to get Americans to relocate within America.  Sometimes for good reasons like not wanting to uproot families.  Sometimes for stupid reasons like "I can't possibly live amongst people with different views than me."  Again, if I had a programming job in the middle of Texas and I offered it to you and an Indian on an H1B, he would probably say yes almost immediately, where you might say "Texas??? I can't live with Republicans!!!!  fark them!  Everything must be about politics all the time!!!"

If you think there's not a shortage of talent, look at mappedinny.com.  There are hundreds of IT jobs on that one website.  The median salary for a semi-experienced code monkey to write web code in the Northeast was $82k last I looked.  There is not a "fake" shortage of talent.  There is an actual, real shortage of talent.  And on top of that shortage of talent, Obamacare created 51 new gigantic coding projects in the Exchanges.
 
2013-10-06 04:46:33 PM  

Fubini: In contrast, the assumption in cloud computing is that any server may live anywhere in the world.


Every cloud services provider I've dealt with asks you to choose which geographic center you want your virtual server to be located in.  Remember, two of the benefits that cloud hosting makes available are geographic proximity (so your users can connect to an instance of your service that's physically closer to them, reducing data transfer times) and geographic redundancy (so if the power in the NYC data center goes out, you can keep running out of the San Francisco data center).

Sure, you can't guarantee that two virtual machines in the NYC cloud are on the same physical machine, in the same rack, or even in the same building, but that's a far cry from the idea that when you're on the cloud, the physical server could be in an indeterminate country, where indeterminate laws apply.

Amazon loves it when you encrypt data that ends up getting streamed to another virtual server co-located on the same physical host. They get paid to do a bunch of useless processing.

Amazon's not unlike any other IT infrastructure operator -- higher loads mean higher maintenance costs. They'd prefer that their customers pay for access to compute power, but not actually use it any more than necessary.
 
2013-10-06 05:12:36 PM  
This whole thing must be a joke. It has to be a joke.

I've tried to set up an account since the 1st with no luck. First two days I couldn't even get in. Then they let me get though the sign up pages only to say at the end that the site was too busy to let me go any further and to re sign up later. Here it is Sunday I still have no idea want if anything I can afford.

And the whole thing if you can't afford sign up for Medicaid well in AZ people with no children can't since 3 or 4 years ago.

Can't look for plans I MIGHT be able to afford, can't sign up for Medicaid because I have no kids. AND get penalized for not have something from the government by December.

And to anyone who thinks they are not going to get penalized the IRS to connected to it so when you file your tax return next year they'll add it on to your return.
 
2013-10-06 05:16:41 PM  
Would definitely sign up if the bill hadn't already extended the insurance from my parents until 26. No insurance company is going to cover a 21 year old with a preexisting brain tumor and lymphoma.
But of course, some people feel I deserve to eat shiat and die over things that can't be controlled than be able to survive without being hundreds of thousands in debt.
 
2013-10-06 05:31:27 PM  

LV426: This whole thing must be a joke. It has to be a joke.

I've tried to set up an account since the 1st with no luck. First two days I couldn't even get in. Then they let me get though the sign up pages only to say at the end that the site was too busy to let me go any further and to re sign up later. Here it is Sunday I still have no idea want if anything I can afford.

And the whole thing if you can't afford sign up for Medicaid well in AZ people with no children can't since 3 or 4 years ago.

Can't look for plans I MIGHT be able to afford, can't sign up for Medicaid because I have no kids. AND get penalized for not have something from the government by December.

And to anyone who thinks they are not going to get penalized the IRS to connected to it so when you file your tax return next year they'll add it on to your return.


Try between like 2 am and 7am.  That's probably your best bet.
 
2013-10-06 06:05:26 PM  

CujoQuarrel: OhioUGrad: Never once had a problem all week creating an account. I only got the "server is down" once and that was after I had signed in and tried to finish the account. Signed in this morning with no wait time, no glitches or anything, and finished my account. The only problem I had is with verifying my identity which requires me to call them apparently (I'm sure that will be fun). But this gives people in the US something to whine about...if it wasn't this, it would be something else.

For me it always dies at setting up the security questions. It refused to believe that I didn't use the same entry for each of the three questions (I didn't). How could that be a server load issue?


Seems like a lot of different people are having all different issues. Maybe it depends on which state you live in since you have to select that on the main page before you try and set up an account?
 
2013-10-06 06:07:35 PM  

ruetheday69: OhioUGrad: Never once had a problem all week creating an account. I only got the "server is down" once and that was after I had signed in and tried to finish the account. Signed in this morning with no wait time, no glitches or anything, and finished my account. The only problem I had is with verifying my identity which requires me to call them apparently (I'm sure that will be fun). But this gives people in the US something to whine about...if it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Started my account not long after this article popped up and so far it has been fairly easy. got about 5 minutes of a heavy load message then smooth sailing from there. Also a couple probs with the identity verification, as it apparently didn't like one of my answers or something. At first it said to call, which I didnt want to bother with so I skipped that part, finished the rest of the app. and went back, now it is asking me for a file with my ID attached. I tried uploading a passport pdf file which was 250kb and got a message saying that the file limit was 10mb and i couldn't upload it. LOL. I'll try again later. Took me all of a half hour tho.


I saw that you could try and verify online like that, but I am thinking it may be easier to call. I'll probably try to verify online again later and if that doesn't work, I'll try and call tomorrow during the day.
 
2013-10-06 06:07:47 PM  

quiotu: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Infernalist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Infernalist: Benjimin_Dover: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?

You really need to go wiki how this shiat works.  Expecting everyone else to educate you on the basics is humiliating.  Or it should be, at least.

Bottom line is most people who are currently employed without insurance still aren't going to be able to afford insurance. Heralding Obamacare as some sort of useful national healthcare system is what's humiliating. It it should be, at least.

lol stop being stupid.

You're right, sorry. They may be able to afford a policy. It's the deductible and the out-of-pocket costs that they won't be able to afford.

Oh well, there's always the ER!

It's okay... most of us accept that there's some freeloaders like you out there that refuse to play nice with everyone else. So yes, you so have the ER and you can pay the fine, and most of this country is alright with that.

Honestly, just because you're too uninformed to know how it works or too disingenuous to accept it, doesn't mean everyone feels the same. Definitely stay in Florida, you fit right in.


I'm not speaking for myself, but the millions of low wage workers who are still priced out of the insurance market because we don't have a real public option.
 
2013-10-06 07:03:15 PM  
The solution is to rub out a large portion of the qualifying population.  They can create a news agency to do this and name It something spiffy like The Rubbies.
 
2013-10-06 07:31:49 PM  
I'm curious how many of the Obamacare fanboys that are defending this joke of a computer system have actually had to go and sign up?

My guess is:   zero.

Today is the 6th.  If this pathetic system is an example of what's to come with the system, it's an utter failure.  I don't care how you dress it up, that "it's new", "give it time", "see how popular it is, everyone wants it", blah, blah blah.

You want to implement a healthcare system for everyone?  Make sure it works.

I've tried for five days now.  It doesn't work.  It fails.  You want me to be patient?  Why?  Why put something out that doesn't work?

No, my guess is that none of you Obamacare supporters have to actually apply for it.  You all probably have your nice cushy insurance and all this complaining is just a big joke to you, since you don't have to even think about using it.

Well, you're right.  It is a joke.  A big pathetic joke.  I'd be curious how well those who wrote the software got paid.

/rant over
//flame away
 
2013-10-06 07:34:04 PM  

pedobearapproved: shtychkn: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.

What $35k job doesn't offer health insurance?  Maybe its time you find a better employer?

Wasn't that the point of all this bulls**t?


The main part was extending Medicaid to those living above the poverty lien (13k/year).  Then changing the rules so insurance companies cant refuse to cover those that need insurance.  And then, yes, it also provided an Exchange so that their could be a market place so the Free Market can actually work ro drive prices down.
 
2013-10-06 07:35:57 PM  

Pick: I  sure don't understand the reason for fining folks for not getting healthcare. If they can't afford it, then you fine them, you set them back even further from getting it. Nice logic Obama.


Because if you can't afford it, then there are systems in place to help you. If you don't qualify for those systems, then you CAN afford it but choose not to.
 
2013-10-06 07:37:48 PM  

Mouren: Would definitely sign up if the bill hadn't already extended the insurance from my parents until 26. No insurance company is going to cover a 21 year old with a preexisting brain tumor and lymphoma.
But of course, some people feel I deserve to eat shiat and die over things that can't be controlled than be able to survive without being hundreds of thousands in debt.


That was one fo the changes under the ACA.  Insurance companies cannot refuse you service.
 
2013-10-06 08:02:35 PM  

Mouren: Would definitely sign up if the bill hadn't already extended the insurance from my parents until 26. No insurance company is going to cover a 21 year old with a preexisting brain tumor and lymphoma.
But of course, some people feel I deserve to eat shiat and die over things that can't be controlled than be able to survive without being hundreds of thousands in debt.


You haven't been paying attention, have you?

They will cover you now.  Part of the ACA is that health insurance cannot be denied on grounds of pre-existing conditions anymore.
 
2013-10-06 08:19:32 PM  

Daniels: Fissile: Daniels: Fissile: Daniels: This is a function of there not being enough computer programmers to make the country function.  That isn't ACA's fault.  It's a failure of schools and colleges to turn out kids with relevant majors.

But keep getting those $200k history degrees, kids!

============

Huh?  I know dozens of IT people who are unemployed, or underemployed.  Despite this fact, most large IT companies refuse to hire any American IT people, instead preferring to play the H1-B visa game.

If you know unemployed or underemployed IT people, they're either not looking very hard, are convinced their PASCAL skills should be all they need, or they're unwilling to relocate.  Because there are several thousand programming jobs in NYC alone.  Places are hiring H1B's because they need bodies to fill the seats.

============

Think so?  See here:  http://www.cringely.com/2013/07/18/so-thats-how-h-1b-visa-fraud-is-do n e/

Yes, H1B fraud happens.  That doesn't make any point other than H1B fraud happens and certainly doesn't make the point that companies prefer H1Bs as candidates.

Here's what the H1B issue boils down to: If you ask someone to move from India to any American City, they will say yes almost 100% of the time.  That is not the case for US-based programmers who, in general, are less willing to relocate.  So, I can set up a code shop in Nowheresburg, South Dakota, and Indian programmers will happily go there, while US-based programmers, usually, will not.

sethen320: Daniels: This is a function of there not being enough computer programmers to make the country function.  That isn't ACA's fault.  It's a failure of schools and colleges to turn out kids with relevant majors.

But keep getting those $200k history degrees, kids!

I'm not really sure what you're arguing, but I'm with you.

I'm arguing that this massive programming project (which is what the exchanges are) was bound to failure because there aren't enough IT people in the US to make them, test them, and launch them in the time frame given.  The users (Obamacare enrolees) are basically the testers.  And unbelievably the number of programmers graduating college isn't increasing.


Ah.. didn't realize we are in short suppluy
Didn't graduate college though either.
 
2013-10-06 08:32:17 PM  
In threads about stuff like voter registration, obtaining ID, access to clinics etc, there'll often be an argument about how negatively inconvenience can impact on the average low-paid worker already busy running from job to job. I imagine a similar thing applies here - there are plenty of people out there who don't have lots of free time or easy access to the internet to whom a poorly functioning system would present a significant obstacle. It really did need to be implemented better.
 
2013-10-06 08:38:17 PM  

stirfrybry: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

So you force people to join by threat of penalty, and this you call interest.

LOL you liberals are farked in the head


This.

They force us at the barrel of a gun (make no mistake if not for the threat of armed guys taking away all my shiat I would not pay anything but consumer taxes)
to buy something and then have the audacity to call it market demand.

farked in the head doesn't cover that level of batshiat crazy.
 
2013-10-06 08:55:50 PM  

The Numbers: In threads about stuff like voter registration, obtaining ID, access to clinics etc, there'll often be an argument about how negatively inconvenience can impact on the average low-paid worker already busy running from job to job. I imagine a similar thing applies here - there are plenty of people out there who don't have lots of free time or easy access to the internet to whom a poorly functioning system would present a significant obstacle. It really did need to be implemented better.


States have their own exchanges as well as the National Exchange.  Major problem is that some states (like Florida) are purposely attempting to hide the exchange and access to Medicaid cause well, people getting healthcare would be such a bad thing.
 
2013-10-06 09:23:53 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Or not, actually.


Another example of government incompetence--the private sector never produces bloated websites that insist on loading a bunch of crap onto your computer before they will let you buy their product.
 
2013-10-06 09:47:40 PM  

Infernalist: Benjimin_Dover: ekdikeo4: People fail to understand the difficulty involved with providing enough server capacity for something like that.  Especially considering that within a week or two, you won't need half or more of the capacity that you would've liked to have had at launch.  So, although it looks kind of bad at start, just like with GTA Online, traffic will eventually level out, and things will be "normal".

Any rational person would have launched the site a month or months before day that people were going to start having to sign up. Get the bugs out before. It's not like they haven't had a few years of knowing this date was coming.

Massive new programs are going to have bugs, glitches and problems.  Anyone thinking otherwise is retarded.

Opening the website months ago would have only tested the ability of the website to function with no traffic on it.  The problem comes from the flood of traffic, not the website itself.


You mean the flood of traffic trying to create accounts?  That could have been done prior to the opening day of signing up.
 
2013-10-06 09:48:49 PM  

Infernalist: Benjimin_Dover: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?

You really need to go wiki how this shiat works.  Expecting everyone else to educate you on the basics is humiliating.  Or it should be, at least.


Been there.  It doesn't say either.  Nice try.
 
2013-10-06 09:52:06 PM  

quiotu: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Infernalist: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Infernalist: Benjimin_Dover: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

I think you should clarify that answer. Every source I've seen so far says that these "subsidies" are not checks cut to either you or the insurance company. They are "tax credits" which a person would get when they submit a tax return. Here's a hint for you. The tax filer does get to chose where his tax credits go. It is immediately subtracted from the tax liability. So if after Uncle Sam takes his cut and there's not enough of that tax credit left to pay the premium, how does that person pay?

You really need to go wiki how this shiat works.  Expecting everyone else to educate you on the basics is humiliating.  Or it should be, at least.

Bottom line is most people who are currently employed without insurance still aren't going to be able to afford insurance. Heralding Obamacare as some sort of useful national healthcare system is what's humiliating. It it should be, at least.

lol stop being stupid.

You're right, sorry. They may be able to afford a policy. It's the deductible and the out-of-pocket costs that they won't be able to afford.

Oh well, there's always the ER!

It's okay... most of us accept that there's some freeloaders like you out there that refuse to play nice with everyone else. So yes, you so have the ER and you can pay the fine, and most of this country is alright with that.

Honestly, just because you're too uninformed to know how it works or too disingenuous to accept it, doesn't mean everyone feels the same. Definitely stay in Florida, you fit right in.


We are informed.  The subsidies are in the form of a tax credit.  If you claim otherwise, the a cite would be in order.
 
2013-10-06 09:53:09 PM  

Silverstaff: Mouren: Would definitely sign up if the bill hadn't already extended the insurance from my parents until 26. No insurance company is going to cover a 21 year old with a preexisting brain tumor and lymphoma.
But of course, some people feel I deserve to eat shiat and die over things that can't be controlled than be able to survive without being hundreds of thousands in debt.

You haven't been paying attention, have you?

They will cover you now.  Part of the ACA is that health insurance cannot be denied on grounds of pre-existing conditions anymore.


No, I have been paying attention. They want to repeal the law, all of it, which includes the age extension and prior condition caveats.
 
2013-10-06 10:01:39 PM  

youmightberight: They force us at the barrel of a gun (make no mistake if not for the threat of armed guys taking away all my shiat I would not pay anything but consumer taxes) to buy something and then have the audacity to call it market demand.


What the fark are you on about?

"barrel of a gun"?  You do know that the ONLY means the IRS has to enforce the tax/penalty/fine whatever for not purchasing health insurance is to withhold future tax returns, right?  They can't even file a lien or any other collection tool.  Just note you owe it for when you eventually do get a tax refund, and send you angry letters griping that you need to pay them.  They explicitly cannot press any kind of charges or use any kind of physical force regarding this.

Or is this what Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Glen Beck and such have told you?
 
2013-10-06 10:14:10 PM  

innumerate: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: DamnYankees: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm not saying anything. I'm asking a question which so far no one has been able to answer.

If you're too poor, you get Medicaid. If you don't qualify for Medicaid because you make too much, you get subsidies to pay for insurance through the ACA. The less money you make, the bigger the subsidy.

Hah. That sounds great. Do you know what the subsidies are for a person making $35k/year?

Hint: not nearly enough to afford the mandated private insurance.

You asked about a person making minimum wage.

Hint:  35k is not minimum wage.

Next question?


it is for someone working 12 hrs a day 6 days a week on a farm in Oregon. (hint: no overtime in agriculture)
 
2013-10-07 12:14:45 AM  

Typhoid: No one thinks this is a giant DoS attack?


The giant DoS attack happens when Obamacare recipients sign up but don't get to see the doctor.
 
2013-10-07 12:21:07 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Silverstaff: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

The Republican Talking Point is that entire storm of traffic to the exchanges was almost entirely the media and Congressional offices, because everyday people are rejecting them en-masse.

Then again, these are the same people who thought Unskewed Polls were the "real" way that the 2012 election would turn out, that global warming is "junk science", and that the Iraqi people would cheer us and celebrate us as liberators and the post-war occupation would be quick and easy.  They aren't known for the best working relationship with facts.

So... How is a minimum wage worker supposed to afford these private health plans?


Didn't you hear?  Republican Talking Point!  Global warming!  Iraqis cheering us?

TEA Party!  Yes, the TEA party!

/Derped!
//Gwarbled!!!
///Slashies ad infinitum!!!!11!!!
 
2013-10-07 12:23:15 AM  

JohnAnnArbor: skullkrusher: Typhoid: No one thinks this is a giant DoS attack?

virtually guarantee it's a DoS attack

Conspiracy!
------------------------------
One possible cause of the problems is that hitting "apply" on HealthCare.gov causes 92 separate files, plug-ins and other mammoth swarms of data to stream between the user's computer and the servers powering the government website, said Matthew Hancock, an independent expert in website design. He was able to track the files being requested through a feature in the Firefox browser.
Of the 92 he found, 56 were JavaScript files, including plug-ins that make it easier for code to work on multiple browsers (such as Microsoft Corp's Internet Explorer and Google Inc's Chrome) and let users upload files to HealthCare.gov.

It is not clear why the upload function was included.

"They set up the website in such a way that too many requests to the server arrived at the same time," Hancock said.

He said because so much traffic was going back and forth between the users' computers and the server hosting the government website, it was as if the system was attacking itself.

Hancock described the situation as similar to what happens when hackers conduct a distributed denial of service, or DDOS, attack on a website: they get large numbers of computers to simultaneously request information from the server that runs a website, overwhelming it and causing it to crash or otherwise stumble. "The site basically DDOS'd itself," he said.


Stupid NSA.
 
2013-10-07 12:32:47 AM  

Fubini: Ivo Shandor: Amazon figured it out a while ago. If they aren't allowed to use commercial services, then maybe they could sweet-talk the NSA into lending them a few hundred racks of servers.

People just throw out Amazon's cloud like it's a silver bullet that can magically and automatically take care of any server workload with minimal cost and effort.

For one, all the data going through the exchanges is covered by HIPAA. This isn't a deal-breaker for cloud computing, but it's certainly not standard practice.

Second, people in the government know that they're going to be in this business for a long time. It's far more cost effective to manage their own server infrastructure than to lease it from a cloud provider in perpetuity, so a dedicated, local server infrastructure is a given. Then, you have the following problem: do you spend a ton of money to develop a cloud based system (which is difficult due to HIPAA constraints) alongside your local version, just so you can meet demand in the first two to four weeks? Or is it more sensible to just develop one version of your infrastructure and ask people to be patient during launch?

Let me put it this way: if the Republicans had OK'ed a bunch of spending to make sure that the health care exchanges run smoothly on day one, I'd have no problem complaining about this launch. Guess what really happened?

What?  The govt dragged their feet over three years?  yes, its true.  But blame the Republicans or the sequester if it fits your narrative.  Idiot.

 
2013-10-07 01:07:17 AM  

youmightberight: They force us at the barrel of a gun (make no mistake if not for the threat of armed guys taking away all my shiat I would not pay anything but consumer taxes)
to buy something


You're a shiatty American and a shiatty human being.
 
2013-10-07 06:12:10 AM  
But I had the volume turned down and It still didn't work.
 
2013-10-07 07:18:11 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Take away the option to have any other form of insurance, and Obamacare works.

Take away all the Republicans, and the one-party government works.

Take away all the deniers, and AGW works.

Take away all the dissenters, and dictatorship works.

Take away all the wreckers, and socialism works.

Take away all the Jews, and the Third Reich works.


Take away the trolls, and FARK becomes Icanhas.cheezburger with fewer stupid pet tricks.
 
2013-10-07 01:28:06 PM  
As usual the Socialist technique always hit a snag due to its citizens!
 
2013-10-07 01:28:12 PM  

anfrind: BumpInTheNight: As much as I chuckle about 'the cloud' and SaaS, this is exactly the sort of problems those concepts are designed to overcome.

I'm not sure that would have worked here, because if I remember correctly HIPPA regulations impose strict rules on how healthcare data can be stored.  It might be that none of the cloud providers could offer a compliant service.


As someone that writes HIPAA (note: 2 As, not 2 Ps) compliant software that hass both SaaS and Cloud options, I am getting a kick out of this.

But seriously, 99% of our customers choose standard clustered servers that they control rather than cloud/SaaS.  The SaaS options have been nothing but headaches and pain.  Unless you have the infrastructure of a Google or an Amazon.com, cloud hosting is probably not gonna make you happy.
 
2013-10-07 01:38:25 PM  
lol. take away the water and the New Orleans levys worked just fine!
 
2013-10-07 01:50:37 PM  

stirfrybry: TuteTibiImperes: If anything this just shows how wildly popular the ACA is, so while it's inconvenient, it's a good sign.

So you force people to join by threat of penalty, and this you call interest.

LOL you liberals are farked in the head


Just worth the repost.
 
2013-10-07 02:18:14 PM  
I have health insurance (no changes required under the new laws), but for the hell of it I went to the site.  Created an account in five minutes, with no error messages.  Couple of usability issues (inaccurate username requirements, inane security question choices), but other than that it was butter.
 
2013-10-07 03:15:48 PM  

smirish: lol. take away the water and the New Orleans levys worked just fine!


They work all the time at Touro.
www.neworleansonline.com
/Krewe du Jieux, shalom y'all
 
2013-10-07 03:28:36 PM  
i live in Ohio, wouldn't know a levee if i saw one.
 
2013-10-07 06:26:49 PM  

Dimensio: I do not understand why the Republican party does not capitalize on this failure to present to the public their own plan and to explain in clear and definitive terms how their own plan will provide better coverage to all citizens of the nation with substantially less hassle.


Because most people will scratch their heads at reading the word "DERP" printed in 11 point type for 400 pages.
 
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