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(Inquisitr)   National Park police close Mt. Vernon, find out after the fact that it is privately owned and funded. OOPS our bad, whodathunkit?   ( inquisitr.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, obama regime  
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11607 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Oct 2013 at 6:28 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



323 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-10-05 03:23:43 PM  
By LAW they have to shut down anything that is open to the public. It says right there in the Declaration of Independence, ipso facto QED!
 
2013-10-05 03:27:52 PM  

Mrbogey: By LAW they have to shut down anything that is open to the public. It says right there in the Declaration of Independence, ipso facto QED!


That's just sad.
 
2013-10-05 03:30:03 PM  
Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf
 
2013-10-05 04:48:26 PM  
And you can't even LOOK at Mount Rushmore anymore!

i43.tinypic.comView Full Size
 
2013-10-05 04:58:07 PM  
Wait until they close outer space!
 
2013-10-05 05:02:51 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf


Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.
 
2013-10-05 05:04:07 PM  

fusillade762: And you can't even LOOK at Mount Rushmore anymore!

[i43.tinypic.com image 570x359]


Real life imitates art. They shut down the shoulder of a road to keep people from stopping their vehicles to take pictures of Mt Rushmore.
 
2013-10-05 05:12:26 PM  

Mrbogey: Real life imitates art. They shut down the shoulder of a road to keep people from stopping their vehicles to take pictures of Mt Rushmore.


Well. no, not really. There's nothing to back up the claim that that's why the shoulder was closed.
 
2013-10-05 05:21:07 PM  
If you're pissed off, direct your ire to the House Republicans, this is entirely on them.
 
2013-10-05 05:41:54 PM  

Teekno: Well. no, not really. There's nothing to back up the claim that that's why the shoulder was closed.


Why do you think they put cones up?

Why should I believe you over what the NPS says?
 
2013-10-05 05:46:49 PM  
"Charter guides received a message from the National Park Service this week informing them that they are not permitted to take clients fishing in Florida Bay until the feds get back to work. That means that more than 1,100 square miles of prime fishing is off limits between the southern tip of the mainland to the Keys until further notice."

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/03/3668028_p2/shutdown-day-3-food- d istributor.html#storylink=cpy


The NPS is closing the ocean.  :)
 
2013-10-05 05:48:27 PM  

Lsherm: cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.


No but "Designated accessible parking spaces are available at the front of the East and West Visitor Parking Lots on each side of the George Washington Memorial Parkway, which are owned and maintained by the National Park Service" so it's funny how reality doesn't really support this narrative, hmm?

Does it seem like a lot of GOP trolls are out today spreading lies?
 
2013-10-05 05:50:15 PM  

fusillade762: And you can't even LOOK at Mount Rushmore anymore!

[i43.tinypic.com image 570x359]


lol
 
2013-10-05 05:50:56 PM  

fusillade762: And you can't even LOOK at Mount Rushmore anymore!

[i43.tinypic.com image 570x359]


I can see a stache
 
2013-10-05 06:16:04 PM  

I_C_Weener: The NPS is closing the ocean. :)


Just as much as the rangers that barricaded NPS parks on the mainland are "closing the land."

It's an NPS area. You can't enter it. It's not complicated.
 
2013-10-05 06:25:30 PM  

Krieghund: I_C_Weener: The NPS is closing the ocean. :)

Just as much as the rangers that barricaded NPS parks on the mainland are "closing the land."

It's an NPS area. You can't enter it. It's not complicated.


I hope to see pictures of floating barricades.
 
2013-10-05 06:30:48 PM  
But none of these closings are stunts, right?

Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365, so its security and closure must be airtight during the shutdown!  And lots and lots of money will be spent to make sure of that!
 
2013-10-05 06:32:45 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365


False.
 
2013-10-05 06:32:47 PM  
CSB:
I went to a wedding reception at Mt.Vernon way back in the 80's.  Can't imagine how much the final price tag was.
 
2013-10-05 06:34:09 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: But none of these closings are stunts, right?

Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365, so its security and closure must be airtight during the shutdown!  And lots and lots of money will be spent to make sure of that!


That's right. No one patrols our monuments, picks up trash, cleans or maintains them. They just sit there and sparkle all on their own.
 
2013-10-05 06:36:03 PM  
Is Miley Cyrus funded by the Federal Government?
 
2013-10-05 06:37:11 PM  
Trolltastic headline.
 
2013-10-05 06:37:13 PM  
The twitter quotes in TFA are derp comedy gold.
 
2013-10-05 06:37:14 PM  
I haven't been outside for half a week because the sky was closed due to government shutdown.

THANKS, CONGRESS!
 
2013-10-05 06:38:07 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If you're pissed off, direct your ire to the House Republicans, this is entirely on them.


I blame Benjamin Civiletti's idiocy.
 
2013-10-05 06:40:53 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If you're pissed off, direct your ire to the House Republicans, this is entirely on them.


I disagree. President Washington was more of a Federalist.
 
2013-10-05 06:41:27 PM  

super_grass: I haven't been outside for half a week because the sky was closed due to government shutdown.

THANKS, CONGRESS!


Jackbooted thugs came and took all the O2 out of the air in my house and told me to breathe nitrogen until the shutdown ends!
 
2013-10-05 06:42:03 PM  
There's no funding for national parks right now so pay tons of cops to run out and put up barricades in the national parks.
 
2013-10-05 06:42:19 PM  
This never would have happened if George Washington hadn't been shooting blanks.
 
2013-10-05 06:42:49 PM  
Doesn't matter if it's privately owned and funded becuz the people who have the responsibility to maintain and protect it are Guv employees.

Leave it unattended and it will become the world's nicest homeless shelter or just a dumpster.
 
2013-10-05 06:42:52 PM  

poot_rootbeer: JohnAnnArbor: Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365

False.


True.

The open air memorials like the WWII memorial have always allowed tourists long after the park services people go home at night.

dl.dropboxusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2013-10-05 06:43:24 PM  

ginandbacon: JohnAnnArbor: But none of these closings are stunts, right?

Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365, so its security and closure must be airtight during the shutdown!  And lots and lots of money will be spent to make sure of that!

That's right. No one patrols our monuments, picks up trash, cleans or maintains them. They just sit there and sparkle all on their own.


They radiate enough patriotism to be entirely unaffected by dirt.
 
2013-10-05 06:45:32 PM  

I_C_Weener: This never would have happened if George Washington hadn't been shooting blanks.


Wait, are you claiming that Washington was the stepfather of our country?

/Martha, you slut.
 
2013-10-05 06:46:25 PM  

poot_rootbeer: JohnAnnArbor: Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365

False.


True.  It's an open park.  There are no turnstiles or guards or ticket collectors of any kind.  The memorial has always been open 24/7 since day one.

The only time anyone official was there was during the busiest part of weekdays.
 
2013-10-05 06:46:37 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If you're pissed off, direct your ire to the House Republicans, this is entirely on them.


This plan is going to backfire. People are going to see what's going on. They are going to reject big government.
 
2013-10-05 06:47:58 PM  

Mrbogey: Teekno: Well. no, not really. There's nothing to back up the claim that that's why the shoulder was closed.

Why do you think they put cones up?

Why should I believe you over what the NPS says?


Because the NPS said (quoting from the article, not the NPS), "the cones were a safety precaution to help channel cars into viewing areas rather than to bar their entrance"?
 
2013-10-05 06:48:12 PM  

Fluid: ginandbacon: JohnAnnArbor: But none of these closings are stunts, right?

Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365, so its security and closure must be airtight during the shutdown!  And lots and lots of money will be spent to make sure of that!

That's right. No one patrols our monuments, picks up trash, cleans or maintains them. They just sit there and sparkle all on their own.

They radiate enough patriotism to be entirely unaffected by dirt.


Well slap me thrice and call me Sally!
 
2013-10-05 06:48:30 PM  
Shutting down the National Forest campgrounds too, and parking areas - though people like hunters and fisherman can still supposedly use the lands, the parking and boat launches are off limits.

Private companies who operate campgrounds totally at their own expense, paying into the federal government, are also being told to close. Instead of being barricaded some of them are being ordered to buy and install barricades at their own expense. http://nhpr.org/post/federal-shutdown-expands-privately-run-campgroun d s-national-forests
 
2013-10-05 06:48:59 PM  

OgreMagi: The only time anyone official was there was during the busiest part of weekdays.


Which is a lie, since it's upkeep is managed by the national park service, and safety and security are provided by park police.
 
2013-10-05 06:50:04 PM  
Sue the police and make back the cash.  Win win for everyone!
 
2013-10-05 06:50:07 PM  
It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.
 
2013-10-05 06:51:04 PM  

Fluid: That's right. No one patrols our monuments, picks up trash, cleans or maintains them.


Oh stop being retarded about this.

Both parties are acting like petulant little children currently.

I'll shut down the government!

Oh yea! I'll intentionally fark over tourists and tell them it's all your fault!
 
2013-10-05 06:51:31 PM  
Well, if the Repugs would just obey The One without question or hesitation, like a President-for-Life should be obeyed, this kind of accidental oppression wouldn't happen.

/so it's all the denialists fault
//they just keep destroying everything that requires 100% conformity of thought, no matter how wonderful it would have been
///like how they destroyed global communism, and made the deaths of all those Ukranian kulaks completely meaningless
 
2013-10-05 06:51:36 PM  

BullBearMS: poot_rootbeer: JohnAnnArbor: Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365

False.

True.

The open air memorials like the WWII memorial have always allowed tourists long after the park services people go home at night.

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 824x390]


Do you see how these two things are contradictory?
 
2013-10-05 06:51:48 PM  

hardinparamedic: OgreMagi: The only time anyone official was there was during the busiest part of weekdays.

Which is a lie, since it's upkeep is managed by the national park service, and safety and security are provided by park police.


It's still open 24/7/365.
 
2013-10-05 06:52:08 PM  

Lsherm: cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.


Apparently the parking lot is.
 
2013-10-05 06:52:28 PM  

JRoo: There's no funding for national parks right now so pay tons of cops to run out and put up barricades in the national parks.



Which means there are far too many LEO's funded for that area.  How many will lose their jobs over this?  I'm guessing ten to fifteen.  Obviously they don't have anything better to do with their time, so let's trim up that budget while we're at it.
 
2013-10-05 06:52:59 PM  

WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.


img.fark.netView Full Size


Friends don't let friends be Frank.
 
2013-10-05 06:54:08 PM  

WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.


Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.
 
2013-10-05 06:54:31 PM  

BullBearMS: poot_rootbeer: JohnAnnArbor: Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365

False.

True.

The open air memorials like the WWII memorial have always allowed tourists long after the park services people go home at night.

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 824x390]


So, the park services people that are not at such parks 24-7-365 get to leave such parks and go home at night?
 
2013-10-05 06:55:22 PM  

WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.


It's a good illustration of what the federal government provides, and therefore can deny, to the public.
 
2013-10-05 06:55:56 PM  

I_C_Weener: This never would have happened if George Washington hadn't been shooting blanks.


George Washington was the greatest president we've ever had. He could have been King George I; he was that popular. He absolutely REFUSED to join a political party; he was smart enough to see that political parties were divisive as hell.

/ he was also 9 feet tall; with laserbeem eyes that never failed, to kill. He never told a lie. He was born on the 4th of July. And; Franklin, himself and his horse singlehandedly won the revolution
 
2013-10-05 06:56:01 PM  
While there are kids going without formula or milk, I could give a rats ass about the national parks or Mt. Vernon.
 
2013-10-05 06:56:21 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Mrbogey: By LAW they have to shut down anything that is open to the public. It says right there in the Declaration of Independence, ipso facto QED!

That's just sad.


This ass is in every shutdown thread. Methinks he's getting paid per post.
 
2013-10-05 06:56:42 PM  

WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.


I think that's kind of the point.
 
2013-10-05 06:56:53 PM  

ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.


To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.
 
2013-10-05 06:57:47 PM  

ginandbacon: Lsherm: cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.

No but "Designated accessible parking spaces are available at the front of the East and West Visitor Parking Lots on each side of the George Washington Memorial Parkway, which are owned and maintained by the National Park Service" so it's funny how reality doesn't really support this narrative, hmm?

Does it seem like a lot of GOP trolls are out today spreading lies?


So is the whole damn GW Parkway.

They also closed the parking and picnic pavilions at Claud Moore Colonial Farm:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/shutdown-overreach-more-personnel-sent- t o-wwii-memorial-than-benghazi-park-service-closes-park-it-doesnt-run/a rticle/2536710

Yeahhh.. It's from the Examiner, but I love the director's comment.
 
2013-10-05 06:57:55 PM  

GreatGlavinsGhost: cameroncrazy1984: Mrbogey: By LAW they have to shut down anything that is open to the public. It says right there in the Declaration of Independence, ipso facto QED!

That's just sad.

This ass is in every shutdown thread. Methinks he's getting paid per post.


Not during the gov't shutdown he ain't.
 
2013-10-05 06:57:55 PM  

Alphakronik: While there are kids going without formula or milk, I could give a rats ass about the national parks or Mt. Vernon.


THIS.  Usual political bullshiat to keep the plebes busy while the problem continues.
 
2013-10-05 06:59:10 PM  

badhatharry: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

It's a good illustration of what the federal government provides, and therefore can deny, to the public.


So, why national parks? Why is that the focus of "OMG OH NOES!". Surely to God there is a lot of other government-run areas that are a lot more critical than being able to look at a bunch of faces blasted into a mountain.

Or... maybe, just fix the farking shutdown.
 
2013-10-05 07:01:28 PM  

eltejon: So is the whole damn GW Parkway.

They also closed the parking and picnic pavilions at Claud Moore Colonial Farm:


Um you do realize those are under Federal jurisdiction, right?
 
2013-10-05 07:02:07 PM  

OgreMagi: poot_rootbeer: JohnAnnArbor: Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365

False.

True.  It's an open park.  There are no turnstiles or guards or ticket collectors of any kind.  The memorial has always been open 24/7 since day one.

The only time anyone official was there was during the busiest part of weekdays.


His disagreement is with the "unstaffed" portion, no doubt. They do have a maintenance staff during the daylight hours that pick up trash, clean the walkways and bathrooms, and do general maintenance. But it's a quibble on his part as the staff generally doesn't do much directly with visitors. Their absence is only a long term problem for the areas.

WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.


It's a tactical error by the administration. Had they closed down what was unable to be opened and let the shutdown build up bad press due to administrative absences, it would have started momentum against the shutdown. They got greedy and went for visible issues that were beyond the scope of a shutdown in order to hurt people. As a result the momentum is fixated on Obama kicking veterans to the curb.
 
2013-10-05 07:02:13 PM  

born_yesterday: Alphakronik: While there are kids going without formula or milk, I could give a rats ass about the national parks or Mt. Vernon.

THIS.  Usual political bullshiat to keep the plebes busy while the problem continues.


Don't call your congressman, call Eric Holder. He's the one person who could stop this whole thing. All he has to do is reverse Civiletti's opinion.
 
2013-10-05 07:02:25 PM  

WippitGuud: So, why national parks? Why is that the focus of "OMG OH NOES!". Surely to God there is a lot of other government-run areas that are a lot more critical than being able to look at a bunch of faces blasted into a mountain.


Because, as was just stated, the parks are a rather in-your-face of the point. Other things, not so much.

It sucks, but there you have it.
 
2013-10-05 07:03:09 PM  

ginandbacon: No but "Designated accessible parking spaces are available at the front of the East and West Visitor Parking Lots on each side of the George Washington Memorial Parkway, which are owned and maintained by the National Park Service" so it's funny how reality doesn't really support this narrative, hmm?


It's only funny because they shut down the whole parking lot instead of the 3 spaces they own.  The rest of the parking lots are owned by the Mt. Vernon Ladies Association.

ginandbacon: Does it seem like a lot of GOP trolls are out today spreading lies?


Actually it seems to me that Fark Dependents are out today claiming government ownership of things that don't belong to it and then trying to justify mistakes because God for-farking-bid a government employee make a mistake.

Answer me this, chumpy mcfarkstick, if the NPS wasn't in the wrong, why did they remove the barricades?  I thought so.
 
2013-10-05 07:03:28 PM  

WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.


SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?
 
2013-10-05 07:03:28 PM  

ginandbacon: eltejon: So is the whole damn GW Parkway.

They also closed the parking and picnic pavilions at Claud Moore Colonial Farm:

Um you do realize those are under Federal jurisdiction, right?


Can we just burn it all down, collect the insurance money and start over from the constitution and the bill of rights?
 
2013-10-05 07:03:29 PM  
"...in-your-face example of the point."
 
2013-10-05 07:05:23 PM  

WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.


They are running the same playbook they ran over the sequester.

Let's see how much we can fark over tourists while claiming it's the other guys fault.

It's completely petty as there would be plenty of real consequences of a government shutdown without going out of your way to create some.
 
2013-10-05 07:05:42 PM  

Lsherm: Answer me this, chumpy mcfarkstick,


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2013-10-05 07:06:16 PM  

Lsherm: ginandbacon: No but "Designated accessible parking spaces are available at the front of the East and West Visitor Parking Lots on each side of the George Washington Memorial Parkway, which are owned and maintained by the National Park Service" so it's funny how reality doesn't really support this narrative, hmm?

It's only funny because they shut down the whole parking lot instead of the 3 spaces they own.  The rest of the parking lots are owned by the Mt. Vernon Ladies Association.

ginandbacon: Does it seem like a lot of GOP trolls are out today spreading lies?

Actually it seems to me that Fark Dependents are out today claiming government ownership of things that don't belong to it and then trying to justify mistakes because God for-farking-bid a government employee make a mistake.

Answer me this, chumpy mcfarkstick, if the NPS wasn't in the wrong, why did they remove the barricades?  I thought so.


Really? They have absolutely ZERO to do with the GW Parkway. Like NADA.
 
2013-10-05 07:06:27 PM  

Mrbogey: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

It's a tactical error by the administration. Had they closed down what was unable to be opened and let the shutdown build up bad press due to administrative absences, it would have started momentum against the shutdown. They got greedy and went for visible issues that were beyond the scope of a shutdown in order to hurt people. As a result the momentum is fixated on Obama kicking veterans to the curb.


So, rather than fix the government shutdown, everyone worries about

A) National Parks
and
B) 0.46% of the country's population (WW2 veterens), of whom maybe 200 individuals maybe couldn't have seen a memorial this week.

And to hell with the other 312 million people in the country.
 
2013-10-05 07:07:08 PM  

ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?


Before about 1960; everybody kind of just ignored government shutdowns. Everything just kept going. Shutdowns happened a lot more often back then.

/ can we do that?
 
2013-10-05 07:07:29 PM  

BullBearMS: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

They are running the same playbook they ran over the sequester.

Let's see how much we can fark over tourists while claiming it's the other guys fault.

It's completely petty as there would be plenty of real consequences of a government shutdown without going out of your way to create some.


Oh yeah. That's totally it.
 
2013-10-05 07:08:28 PM  

iheartscotch: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?

Before about 1960; everybody kind of just ignored government shutdowns. Everything just kept going. Shutdowns happened a lot more often back then.

/ can we do that?


I'm game.
 
2013-10-05 07:09:45 PM  
ginandbacon:
SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN????????

What should be shut down? That's easy:

NOTHING! It's the farking government. Get off your asses, stop looking like asses on TV, and fix the farking thing. You're country is starting to look like a bunch of idiots to the rest of the world.
 
2013-10-05 07:11:18 PM  

WippitGuud: ginandbacon:
SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN????????

What should be shut down? That's easy:

NOTHING! It's the farking government. Get off your asses, stop looking like asses on TV, and fix the farking thing. You're Your country is starting to look like a bunch of idiots to the rest of the world.


Yes, I'm aware of the irony of calling someone an idiot while mistyping something.
 
2013-10-05 07:12:57 PM  

BullBearMS: It's completely petty as there would be plenty of real consequences of a government shutdown without going out of your way to create some.


Exactly.

WippitGuud: And to hell with the other 312 million people in the country.


If 312 million people depend upon non-essential federal workers for their day to day living, somethings wrong with your country.
 
2013-10-05 07:13:44 PM  

BullBearMS: Both parties are acting like petulant little children currently.


Yes. The GOP and the Tea Party are both acting like petulant little children.
 
2013-10-05 07:14:44 PM  
OMG 0bama is SO evil!  How dare he!
 
2013-10-05 07:15:53 PM  

BullBearMS: Fluid: That's right. No one patrols our monuments, picks up trash, cleans or maintains them.

Oh stop being retarded about this.

Both parties are acting like petulant little children currently.

I'll shut down the government!

Oh yea! I'll intentionally fark over tourists and tell them it's all your fault!


This is not a move to intentionally fark over anyone.  There is no money to pay the staff to maintain order, protect the safety of guests, and prevent vandalism of the parks and monuments, thus they are shut down.

For a group that calls themselves the party of responsibility the GOP is doing an awful lot of whining about the results of their own actions.  There are effects of the government shutting down, either pass the clean CR so that we can get back to the way things should be or stop whining.
 
2013-10-05 07:16:38 PM  

a particular individual: BullBearMS: Both parties are acting like petulant little children currently.

Yes. The GOP and the Tea Party are both acting like petulant little children.


They are rubber and you are glue.
 
2013-10-05 07:17:21 PM  

ginandbacon: BullBearMS: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

They are running the same playbook they ran over the sequester.

Let's see how much we can fark over tourists while claiming it's the other guys fault.

It's completely petty as there would be plenty of real consequences of a government shutdown without going out of your way to create some.

Oh yeah. That's totally it.


There are few in Washington who believe that the administration's hands are tied on the matter. On the face of it, the politics of canceling the tours seems pretty shrewd. The sequester is a slow-rolling cut, its pain real, but only apparent for most Americans over time. White House tours, meanwhile, are largely scheduled through the offices of individual congressmen, and it is the staffs of those members of Congress who have been forced to call constituents to tell them that their trip to the nation's capital will be without a visit to its crown jewel.

But the move has backfired on the White House, much as the rest of their sequester messaging has, and Obama finds himself on the defensive right at the start of his second term.

"It is a petulant, juvenile response," said one Democratic official close to the administration. "It totally undermines the harm that the sequester is actually doing to Americans. Now all we are talking about is the canceled tours and not about all the jobs lost."

This week, The Washington Post urged the White House to restart the tours immediately, calling the move a "kind of bureaucratic hostage-taking," and the blowback "a proper come-uppance." The thinking by many in Washington now is that the Obama administration is merely waiting for a moment when the world is otherwise consumed to announce that they are restarting the tours-say this Friday afternoon, or sometime over the weekend.

Democrats have been trying, without much success, to blame the cancellation on the Republicans' unwillingness to deal on fiscal matters:
 
2013-10-05 07:17:25 PM  
I want to hear the right explain how Obama is an appeaser who refuses to appease them.
 
2013-10-05 07:17:42 PM  

WippitGuud: WippitGuud: ginandbacon:
SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN????????

What should be shut down? That's easy:

NOTHING! It's the farking government. Get off your asses, stop looking like asses on TV, and fix the farking thing. You're Your country is starting to look like a bunch of idiots to the rest of the world.

Yes, I'm aware of the irony of calling someone an idiot while mistyping something.


I hope you weren't calling me an idiot while mistyping things because I am seriously pissed off about this entire ridiculous debacle.
 
2013-10-05 07:17:55 PM  

Mrbogey: WippitGuud: And to hell with the other 312 million people in the country.

If 312 million people depend upon non-essential federal workers for their day to day living, somethings wrong with your country.


Well which is it? Either the shutdown is a big deal, or the shutdown is pointless and just makes you look bad?
 
2013-10-05 07:18:17 PM  

Chinchillazilla: super_grass: I haven't been outside for half a week because the sky was closed due to government shutdown.

THANKS, CONGRESS!

Jackbooted thugs came and took all the O2 out of the air in my house and told me to breathe nitrogen until the shutdown ends!


President Skroob approves.
 
2013-10-05 07:19:16 PM  
Where I live, I am surround by the Shenandoah Nat'l Park and the George Washington Nat'l Forest.  The Skyline Drive begins here.  People are pissed.
 
2013-10-05 07:19:48 PM  

ginandbacon: WippitGuud: WippitGuud: ginandbacon:
SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN????????

What should be shut down? That's easy:

NOTHING! It's the farking government. Get off your asses, stop looking like asses on TV, and fix the farking thing. You're Your country is starting to look like a bunch of idiots to the rest of the world.

Yes, I'm aware of the irony of calling someone an idiot while mistyping something.

I hope you weren't calling me an idiot while mistyping things because I am seriously pissed off about this entire ridiculous debacle.


I was generalizing the American internet community (not to mention mass media), and not singling out individuals. I'm sure there are people on both sides of the divide that are not idiots.
 
2013-10-05 07:23:06 PM  

Mrbogey: OgreMagi: poot_rootbeer: JohnAnnArbor: Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365

False.

True.  It's an open park.  There are no turnstiles or guards or ticket collectors of any kind.  The memorial has always been open 24/7 since day one.

The only time anyone official was there was during the busiest part of weekdays.

His disagreement is with the "unstaffed" portion, no doubt. They do have a maintenance staff during the daylight hours that pick up trash, clean the walkways and bathrooms, and do general maintenance. But it's a quibble on his part as the staff generally doesn't do much directly with visitors. Their absence is only a long term problem for the areas.



Actually, there's almost always a Ranger there. Interacting with people. And maintenance staff and whatnot. None of whom are working.
 
2013-10-05 07:25:43 PM  
slimdown
slimdown
slimdown
 
2013-10-05 07:26:05 PM  

ginandbacon: iheartscotch: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?

Before about 1960; everybody kind of just ignored government shutdowns. Everything just kept going. Shutdowns happened a lot more often back then.

/ can we do that?

I'm game.


Or; and I know that this is crazy talk; pay the officers manning the barricades to, you know, man the actual park or whatever.

/ the shear hyperbole on both sides is starting to get annoying.
 
2013-10-05 07:27:23 PM  

ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?


DEA, ATF, NSA, would be a good start.

But blocking off the side of the road so you can't look at a farking mountain is about as petty and small minded as you can get.
 
2013-10-05 07:27:35 PM  

WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: WippitGuud: ginandbacon:
SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN????????

What should be shut down? That's easy:

NOTHING! It's the farking government. Get off your asses, stop looking like asses on TV, and fix the farking thing. You're Your country is starting to look like a bunch of idiots to the rest of the world.

Yes, I'm aware of the irony of calling someone an idiot while mistyping something.

I hope you weren't calling me an idiot while mistyping things because I am seriously pissed off about this entire ridiculous debacle.

I was generalizing the American internet community (not to mention mass media), and not singling out individuals. I'm sure there are people on both sides of the divide that are not idiots.


*sniff*

Okay then

In the meantime, while the GOP trolls are having midget mental breakdowns because a dead president's home is inaccessible, WIC is about to lose federal funding on Monday. Benefits to feed babies. 

Where are your farking priorities you pieces of shiat assholes?
 
2013-10-05 07:29:26 PM  

OgreMagi: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?

DEA, ATF, NSA, would be a good start.

But blocking off the side of the road so you can't look at a farking mountain is about as petty and small minded as you can get.


Do you understand that every single department is mandated by sequestration to cut their budgets with no exceptions?
 
2013-10-05 07:29:37 PM  

GhostFish: BullBearMS: poot_rootbeer: JohnAnnArbor: Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365

False.

True.

The open air memorials like the WWII memorial have always allowed tourists long after the park services people go home at night.

Is it still being cleaned, maintained, and patrolled?


I don't think anyone would biatch if the cleaning and maintenance parts were suspended during the shutdown. But putting up barricades is unmitigated assholery.
 
2013-10-05 07:30:20 PM  

WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-10-05 07:31:04 PM  

WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.


This.
 
2013-10-05 07:33:36 PM  

ginandbacon: OgreMagi: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?

DEA, ATF, NSA, would be a good start.

But blocking off the side of the road so you can't look at a farking mountain is about as petty and small minded as you can get.

Do you understand that every single department is mandated by sequestration to cut their budgets with no exceptions?


And your point?  Those highway pull-offs aren't manned.  There are no guards.  Most of the time they don't have even have a trashcan.  It's a spot to pull over for a moment to take a look and maybe snap a photo or two.  Leaving them open cost nothing.  Laying down a hundred highway cones to keep people out definitely cost something.
 
2013-10-05 07:35:19 PM  

brimed03: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

The GOP has no plan to fix this shutdown, and they're refusing to do the one fair thing that would end it right now - pass a clean CR.  They're trying to obfuscate the issue, which is par for the course.  They don't actually do anything, they just obfuscate and obstruct.
 
2013-10-05 07:35:19 PM  

ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?


It should be when the farking gorram government employees GO HOME and STFU instead of being sent out to intentionally inflict inconvenience and take away access to PUBLIC property that is not otherwise restricted when they're all at work feeding from the public trough.
 
2013-10-05 07:41:33 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: brimed03: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

The GOP has no plan to fix this shutdown, and they're refusing to do the one fair thing that would end it right now - pass a clean CR.  They're trying to obfuscate the issue, which is par for the course.  They don't actually do anything, they just obfuscate and obstruct.


^^^^^^^
100% pure, unedited top-shelf Democrat party talking points... right down to the "Clean CR" reference, which was invented out of nothing just to have something high-and-mighty sounding to spice up sound bites.
 
2013-10-05 07:45:13 PM  
What is truly disguising is that the government is spending more money "shutting down" some things than it would cost to just leave them alone.  And the reason is because they cannot afford it.  asinine personified.
 
2013-10-05 07:45:21 PM  

fullyfarked: TuteTibiImperes: brimed03: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

The GOP has no plan to fix this shutdown, and they're refusing to do the one fair thing that would end it right now - pass a clean CR.  They're trying to obfuscate the issue, which is par for the course.  They don't actually do anything, they just obfuscate and obstruct.

^^^^^^^
100% pure, unedited top-shelf Democrat party talking points... right down to the "Clean CR" reference, which was invented out of nothing just to have something high-and-mighty sounding to spice up sound bites.


If by that you mean the truth, which is nearly always the case, then you're correct.

Also, the clean CR wasn't invented out of nothing, it's what should have been done from day 1.  The government was about to shut down due to lack of a budget, the obvious solution is to pass an extension on the current budget, not turn it into a hostage situation for political gain like the GOP attempted.

The clean CR benefits all people equally.
 
2013-10-05 07:47:33 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.


Well sure, because this went over so well the last time Obama cancelled White House tours over the sequester and tried to claim it was the other guys fault.

"It is a petulant, juvenile response," said one Democratic official close to the administration. "It totally undermines the harm that the sequester is actually doing to Americans. Now all we are talking about is the canceled tours and not about all the jobs lost."

What is it they say about taking the same petty little actions and expecting different outcomes?

All they had to do either time is wait for real consequences to occur and point those out, but no...
 
2013-10-05 07:48:33 PM  

fullyfarked: TuteTibiImperes: brimed03: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

The GOP has no plan to fix this shutdown, and they're refusing to do the one fair thing that would end it right now - pass a clean CR.  They're trying to obfuscate the issue, which is par for the course.  They don't actually do anything, they just obfuscate and obstruct.

^^^^^^^
100% pure, unedited top-shelf Democrat party talking points... right down to the "Clean CR" reference, which was invented out of nothing just to have something high-and-mighty sounding to spice up sound bites.


Except that these 'talking points' have the side benefit of being ground in reality.
 
2013-10-05 07:50:15 PM  

BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

Well sure, because this went over so well the last time Obama cancelled White House tours over the sequester and tried to claim it was the other guys fault.

"It is a petulant, juvenile response," said one Democratic official close to the administration. "It totally undermines the harm that the sequester is actually doing to Americans. Now all we are talking about is the canceled tours and not about all the jobs lost."

What is it they say about taking the same petty little actions and expecting different outcomes?

All they had to do either time is wait for real consequences to occur and point those out, but no...


They're not closing the parks just to close them, they're closing them because the park rangers and security have been furloughed and it would be negligent and irresponsible to keep them open without the proper support staff in place.

This isn't being done to prove a point, this is just how things are when the government shuts down.  The GOP would be smart to stop trying to shift the blame and instead try to fix the problem they started.
 
2013-10-05 07:52:19 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

Well sure, because this went over so well the last time Obama cancelled White House tours over the sequester and tried to claim it was the other guys fault.

"It is a petulant, juvenile response," said one Democratic official close to the administration. "It totally undermines the harm that the sequester is actually doing to Americans. Now all we are talking about is the canceled tours and not about all the jobs lost."

What is it they say about taking the same petty little actions and expecting different outcomes?

All they had to do either time is wait for real consequences to occur and point those out, but no...

They're not closing the parks just to close them, they're closing them because the park rangers and security have been furloughed and it would be negligent and irresponsible to keep them open without the proper support staff in place.

This isn't being done to prove a point, this is just how things are when the government shuts down.  The GOP would be smart to stop trying to shift the blame and instead try to fix the problem they started.


For the last time: Park Rangers have not been furloughed nor have federal Park Police.
 
2013-10-05 07:52:25 PM  

OgreMagi: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?

DEA, ATF, NSA, would be a good start.

But blocking off the side of the road so you can't look at a farking mountain is about as petty and small minded as you can get.

Do you understand that every single department is mandated by sequestration to cut their budgets with no exceptions?

And your point?  Those highway pull-offs aren't manned.  There are no guards.  Most of the time they don't have even have a trashcan.  It's a spot to pull over for a moment to take a look and maybe snap a photo or two.  Leaving them open cost nothing.  Laying down a hundred highway cones to keep people out definitely cost something.


The 70,000 people employed by the Department of the Interior would like a word. Not to mention all the people assigned to reducing the risk of terrorism to our monuments who aren't getting paid to protect those monuments you care so very very much about.

Not to mention the folks that have to clean up when you need to poop and piss in those monuments. Or the people that have to pick up syringes and condoms and other things I'm pretty sure you don't want to see littering our precious whatever whatever that celebrates some dead man who owned slaves and didn't think his wife deserved the right to vote.

Or the honest-to goodness my family wants to honor granpa or grandma X who served this country even though bother so-and-so can't get his benefits processed at the VA...

Along with the insane cuts we are making to social services and things like drug trials and food safety and so on and so on.

fullyfarked: It should be when the farking gorram government employees GO HOME and STFU instead of being sent out to intentionally inflict inconvenience and take away access to PUBLIC property that is not otherwise restricted when they're all at work feeding from the public trough.


And not be allowed to work for anyone else while the GOP is playing fast and loose with their livelihood, right? That should just bend right over and take it like the bureaucratic weasels they are!!!! To hell with their mortgages, insurance bills, shoes for the kids, glasses, gramma's Lipitor, right?
 
2013-10-05 07:52:49 PM  

ginandbacon: Really? They have absolutely ZERO to do with the GW Parkway. Like NADA.


They didn't close the parkway, they closed parking lots that belonged to the Mt. Vernon Association.  Try to keep up.

The one "lot" that is still blocked is a public lot that belongs to the NPS, but it's actually four spaces provided for handicapped or VIP access.  The rest of them belong to the Mt. Vernon Association.  You're in Maryland, haven't you ever been to Mt. Vernon?

What NPS did was put barriers at the entrance to several lots even though they only own limited spaces inside one of the privately owned lots.  They overstepped, because that's what they were instructed to do.
 
2013-10-05 07:55:25 PM  

Godscrack: Wait until they close outer space!


That's different. Outer space is owned by Richard Branson. And he closed it last month for remodeling.
 
2013-10-05 07:55:45 PM  

mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

Well sure, because this went over so well the last time Obama cancelled White House tours over the sequester and tried to claim it was the other guys fault.

"It is a petulant, juvenile response," said one Democratic official close to the administration. "It totally undermines the harm that the sequester is actually doing to Americans. Now all we are talking about is the canceled tours and not about all the jobs lost."

What is it they say about taking the same petty little actions and expecting different outcomes?

All they had to do either time is wait for real consequences to occur and point those out, but no...

They're not closing the parks just to close them, they're closing them because the park rangers and security have been furloughed and it would be negligent and irresponsible to keep them open without the proper support staff in place.

This isn't being done to prove a point, this is just how things are when the government shuts down.  The GOP would be smart to stop trying to shift the blame and instead try to fix the problem they started.

For the last time: Park Rangers have not been furloughed nor have federal Park Police.


Yes they have been furloughed, at least federal ones.  State employees may still be on the job.  A limited number of federal rangers are still working, but the majority have been furloughed.
 
2013-10-05 07:56:53 PM  
mr_larry: For the last time: Park Rangers have not been furloughed nor have federal Park Police.

Then why are they glaring with furloughed brow?
 
2013-10-05 07:56:55 PM  

OgreMagi: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN???????? It's a farking gorram government shutdown! That's kind of how they work, ya know?

DEA, ATF, NSA, would be a good start.

But blocking off the side of the road so you can't look at a farking mountain is about as petty and small minded as you can get.


And yet, they've closed Highway 64 along the east rim of the Grand Canyon, because people were stopping to look; and they have closed Highway 198 into Sequoia National Park, because there, it's almost necessary to stop occasionally if you want to get your bearings, as a newcomer, on the switchbacks.

And in Yosemite, they are permitting people to pull over at a non-scenic stop where there's an open restroom (how nice of them) and ignoring people who stop at Olmsted Point (very mellow rangers in the Tuolumne, apparently) but shooing people out of all the Valley stopping points.

Similar lack of stopping in Yellowstone.  Ridiculous.  These are State Highways (although the Feds claim they own or maintain Highway 64 inside Grand Canyon), and people do stop sometimes along highways, for various reasons.

Of course, I'd be pissed too if I was laid off my job without pay for an indefinite period of time.
 
2013-10-05 07:57:20 PM  

ginandbacon: Not to mention all the people assigned to reducing the risk of terrorism


Raising the spectre of the terrorism boogeyman means you are reaching for anything you can to defend a losing position.
 
2013-10-05 07:57:48 PM  
 
2013-10-05 07:58:08 PM  
If people haven't WOKE UP yet... All Obama and his "government" is going to do is punish the public more and more until they get their way.

They have now tried to close several privately funded places. This is not the first one. If the shutdown was "real", only federal stuff would get shut. They are going further and trying to shut down everything they can that provides recreation. They are about to go further.

They have already announced that Veteran's Benefits will NOT be paid if the shutdown continues. This probably means Social Security as well. Next, they will threaten welfare and food stamps (USDA).

But my question is.. If the government is shut down, we don't have to pay taxes right? I say we all threaten to not pay taxes. If everyone does that, they would have no choice but to show their true colors.
 
2013-10-05 07:58:59 PM  
mr_larry:

For the last time: Park Rangers have not been furloughed nor have federal Park Police.

Liar.
 
2013-10-05 07:59:21 PM  

Lsherm: cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.


the parking lot for the busses is.  Thats important to pay someone to put up barricades to the lot and stand there to make sure nobody uses the asphalt.

That costs money to use asphault, you know.

I wonder why they arent roadblocking interstates while they are trying to make it inconvenient for citizens.
 
2013-10-05 08:00:18 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: fullyfarked: TuteTibiImperes: brimed03: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

The GOP has no plan to fix this shutdown, and they're refusing to do the one fair thing that would end it right now - pass a clean CR.  They're trying to obfuscate the issue, which is par for the course.  They don't actually do anything, they just obfuscate and obstruct.

^^^^^^^
100% pure, unedited top-shelf Democrat party talking points... right down to the "Clean CR" reference, which was invented out of nothing just to have something high-and-mighty sounding to spice up sound bites.

If by that you mean the truth, which is nearly always the case, then you're correct.

Also, the clean CR wasn't invented out of nothing, it's what should have been done from day 1.  The government was about to shut down due to lack of a budget, the obvious solution is to pass an extension on the current budget, not turn it into a hostage situation for political gain like the GOP attempted.

The clean CR benefits all people equally.


Hold'em up screw.  Would you care to enlighten me as to the last time a constitutionally-required budget was passed in the Senate?  Maybe if someone had actually passed a flipping budget we wouldn't need a continuing resolution to keep the government open.  Hell, even an annual appropriations bill would be nice, but NO, both parties enjoy this bullshiat political grandstanding that comes with these pissant continuing resolutions.
 
2013-10-05 08:00:27 PM  

ginandbacon: mr_larry:

For the last time: Park Rangers have not been furloughed nor have federal Park Police.

Liar.


You debate like a two year old.  Post a citation.  Put up or shut up.
 
2013-10-05 08:00:28 PM  

Mrbogey: Why should I believe you over what the NPS says?


The NPS never said that that was the reason the cones were up.

So, why should I believe you over what the NPS said?
 
2013-10-05 08:00:36 PM  
My husband's ex-wife works for WIC and cannot report to work.  She gave up alimony in the divorce over 2 decades ago.  I'm getting a kick outta these replies!
 
2013-10-05 08:00:37 PM  
Barrycades. I got a chuckle out of that one.
 
2013-10-05 08:01:51 PM  

BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: They're not closing the parks just to close them

Yes.

They are.

It's pretty obvious this time, just as it was last time.

THE DECISION to drop White House tours always had a whiff of what's known as Washington Monument syndrome. The ham-handed tactic is employed when government is faced with budget cuts and officials go after the services that are most visible and appreciated by the public. It's a kind of bureaucratic hostage-taking, so the pushback that the Obama administration has encountered is a proper comeuppance.


The sequester situation and the shutdown aren't the same thing.  Under the sequester that could move money around to fund things as they saw fit to a degree.  Under the shutdown the majority of the park rangers, maintenance staff, and security personnel have been furloughed.  Without those people doing their jobs it's impossible to open the monuments and national parks in a responsible manner.
 
2013-10-05 08:03:32 PM  
Have to love the comments by the pathetically, uneducated Repukes and Tea Party nutjobs.... Or, is it hate them?  Yeah, hate them.
 
2013-10-05 08:03:38 PM  

Goldstien Sachs: TuteTibiImperes: fullyfarked: TuteTibiImperes: brimed03: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

The GOP has no plan to fix this shutdown, and they're refusing to do the one fair thing that would end it right now - pass a clean CR.  They're trying to obfuscate the issue, which is par for the course.  They don't actually do anything, they just obfuscate and obstruct.

^^^^^^^
100% pure, unedited top-shelf Democrat party talking points... right down to the "Clean CR" reference, which was invented out of nothing just to have something high-and-mighty sounding to spice up sound bites.

If by that you mean the truth, which is nearly always the case, then you're correct.

Also, the clean CR wasn't invented out of nothing, it's what should have been done from day 1.  The government was about to shut down due to lack of a budget, the obvious solution is to pass an extension on the current budget, not turn it into a hostage situation for political gain like the GOP attempted.

The clean CR benefits all people equally.

Hold'em up screw.  Would you care to enlighten me as to the last time a constitutionally-required budget was passed in the Senate?  Maybe if someone had actually passed a flipping budget we wouldn't need a continuing resolution to keep the government open.  Hell, even an annual appropriations bill would be nice, but NO, both parties enjoy this bullshiat political grandstanding that comes with these pissant continuing resolutions.


I'm sure the Senate would love to pass a budget.  The House just needs to get their shiat together and agree to one that doesn't cut major spending from important social and safety net programs.  If the House would agree to a budget that wasn't drastically smaller than what we need, maybe we'd get somewhere.
 
2013-10-05 08:04:10 PM  

OgreMagi: ginandbacon: mr_larry:

For the last time: Park Rangers have not been furloughed nor have federal Park Police.

Liar.

You debate like a two year old.  Post a citation.  Put up or shut up.


"The park, run by the U.S. National Park Service, will furlough 92 employees but keep 15 employees on hand to maintain essential services such as fire protection, security, law enforcement and water treatment."

One park. One.

And I honestly could not care less except that these good men and women are facing horrible financial crises.
 
2013-10-05 08:07:25 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

Well sure, because this went over so well the last time Obama cancelled White House tours over the sequester and tried to claim it was the other guys fault.

"It is a petulant, juvenile response," said one Democratic official close to the administration. "It totally undermines the harm that the sequester is actually doing to Americans. Now all we are talking about is the canceled tours and not about all the jobs lost."

What is it they say about taking the same petty little actions and expecting different outcomes?

All they had to do either time is wait for real consequences to occur and point those out, but no...

They're not closing the parks just to close them, they're closing them because the park rangers and security have been furloughed and it would be negligent and irresponsible to keep them open without the proper support staff in place.

This isn't being done to prove a point, this is just how things are when the government shuts down.  The GOP would be smart to stop trying to shift the blame and instead try to fix the problem they started.

For the last time: Park Rangers have not been furloughed nor have federal Park Police.

Yes they have been furloughed, at least federal ones.  State employees may still be on the job.  A limited number of federal rangers are still working, but the majority have been furloughed.


If you are a ranger that works at a museum or an exhibit that has been closed, then you are furloughed. If you are out on patrol you have not been furloughed. Written into law:

"Excepted employees" include employees who are (1) performing emergency work involving the safety of human life or the protection of property,
 
2013-10-05 08:09:24 PM  
I, for one, am enjoying watching conservatives throw a fit because liberals failed to adequately protect them from the consequences of their own actions.
 
2013-10-05 08:11:04 PM  

mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

Well sure, because this went over so well the last time Obama cancelled White House tours over the sequester and tried to claim it was the other guys fault.

"It is a petulant, juvenile response," said one Democratic official close to the administration. "It totally undermines the harm that the sequester is actually doing to Americans. Now all we are talking about is the canceled tours and not about all the jobs lost."

What is it they say about taking the same petty little actions and expecting different outcomes?

All they had to do either time is wait for real consequences to occur and point those out, but no...

They're not closing the parks just to close them, they're closing them because the park rangers and security have been furloughed and it would be negligent and irresponsible to keep them open without the proper support staff in place.

This isn't being done to prove a point, this is just how things are when the government shuts down.  The GOP would be smart to stop trying to shift the blame and instead try to fix the problem they started.

For the last time: Park Rangers have not been furloughed nor have federal Park Police.

Yes they have been furloughed, at least federal ones.  State employees may still be on the job.  A limited number of federal rangers are still working, but the majority have been furloughed.

If you are a ranger that works at a museum or an exhibit that has been closed, then you are furloughed. If you are out on patrol you have not been furloughed. Written into law:

"Excepted employees" include employees who are (1) performing emergency work involving the safety of human life or the pro ...


Just because some of the guys with guns remain doesn't mean that the ground staff that keeps an eye on things and alerts them of problems hasn't been dramatically reduced.  The rangers can't be as effective when the majority have been furloughed, and it's unsafe to operate the parks until the majority return.
 
2013-10-05 08:11:10 PM  

udhq: I, for one, am enjoying watching conservatives throw a fit because liberals failed to adequately protect them from the consequences of their own actions.


And I'm enjoying the spectacle of Obama showing how much of a petty little asshole he really is.

/not a Republican
 
2013-10-05 08:11:59 PM  

OgreMagi: udhq: I, for one, am enjoying watching conservatives throw a fit because liberals failed to adequately protect them from the consequences of their own actions.

And I'm enjoying the spectacle of Obama showing how much of a petty little asshole he really is.

/not a Republican


Obama is a fine person, it's his brigade of supporters that I hate.
 
2013-10-05 08:12:29 PM  

OgreMagi: ginandbacon: Not to mention all the people assigned to reducing the risk of terrorism

Raising the spectre of the terrorism boogeyman means you are reaching for anything you can to defend a losing position.


Oh puleeze.

"The report, obtained by the Washington Post, makes a direct correlation between the vulnerability of the monuments and the funding of the U.S. Park Police, a law enforcement agency of the National Park Service. Nine national monuments and memorials are said to be vulnerable, including the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, the Lincoln Memorial, the Thomas Jefferson Memorial and--of most concern to the authors of the report--the newly refurbished Washington Monument."

And that's only for DC. Imagine the furor if Lady Liberty were attacked? She's a National Park, BTW.
 
2013-10-05 08:13:40 PM  

mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

Well sure, because this went over so well the last time Obama cancelled White House tours over the sequester and tried to claim it was the other guys fault.

"It is a petulant, juvenile response," said one Democratic official close to the administration. "It totally undermines the harm that the sequester is actually doing to Americans. Now all we are talking about is the canceled tours and not about all the jobs lost."

What is it they say about taking the same petty little actions and expecting different outcomes?

All they had to do either time is wait for real consequences to occur and point those out, but no...

They're not closing the parks just to close them, they're closing them because the park rangers and security have been furloughed and it would be negligent and irresponsible to keep them open without the proper support staff in place.

This isn't being done to prove a point, this is just how things are when the government shuts down.  The GOP would be smart to stop trying to shift the blame and instead try to fix the problem they started.

For the last time: Park Rangers have not been furloughed nor have federal Park Police.


You're speaking of one group of Park Rangers.  There are several types.  One of them is the Old Type:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nations-oldest-full-time-park-ran ge r-furloughed-20478856
 
2013-10-05 08:15:11 PM  

udhq: I, for one, am enjoying watching conservatives throw a fit because liberals failed to adequately protect them from the consequences of their own actions.


The doublespeak is mind numbing.  The "slimdown" (including loss of jobs and benefits) caused by the Teaparty isn't a big deal, but closure of national parks?  WELCOME TO OBAMA'S BERLIN.
 
2013-10-05 08:15:47 PM  
I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.
 
2013-10-05 08:16:20 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: They're not closing the parks just to close them, they're closing them because the park rangers and security have been furloughed and it would be negligent and irresponsible to keep them open without the proper support staff in place.


They forced the closing of a fancy restaurant in San Francisco (the Cliff House) that has existed pretty much since the state of California has been a state. Never mind that the access, parking and, well, everything actually, including law enforcement and EMS, all are the responsibility of, and owned by San Francisco. The only reason that the NPS is involved at all was because when they formed the GGNRA in 1977 they claimed that part of the restaurant sat inside it and therefore was a concession under NPS rules. It fronts a city street and has all of the parking spaces owned by the city. It costs them absolutely nothing to operate on a day to day basis, employ's people who don't get a paycheck from them, yet they forced them to close down over this. Absolutely pointless other than to play the "Make it hurt" game.
 
2013-10-05 08:16:43 PM  

born_yesterday: udhq: I, for one, am enjoying watching conservatives throw a fit because liberals failed to adequately protect them from the consequences of their own actions.

The doublespeak is mind numbing.  The "slimdown" (including loss of jobs and benefits) caused by the Teaparty isn't a big deal, but closure of national parks?  WELCOME TO OBAMA'S BERLIN.


I hate the term "slimdown" in this situation.
The economy is already anorexic. Getting slimmer is just going to kill it.
 
2013-10-05 08:18:15 PM  

mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes:

"Excepted employees" include employees who are (1) performing emergency work involving the safety of human life or the property.


Where does the White House portrait photographer figure into this?

President Obama Gets Portrait Taken on Oct. 3, During Government Shutdown
 
2013-10-05 08:18:29 PM  

PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.


A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.
 
2013-10-05 08:18:49 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Lsherm: cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.

the parking lot for the busses is.  Thats important to pay someone to put up barricades to the lot and stand there to make sure nobody uses the asphalt.

That costs money to use asphault, you know.

I wonder why they arent roadblocking interstates while they are trying to make it inconvenient for citizens.


I can't find anything that suggests the parking for busses is owned by NPS.  The only thing they appear to own is the handicapped/reserved spaces in one parking lot which double as VIP spaces if a dignitary visits.  Even then, they don't own the land its on, they just "service" it.
 
2013-10-05 08:19:06 PM  

WippitGuud: born_yesterday: udhq: I, for one, am enjoying watching conservatives throw a fit because liberals failed to adequately protect them from the consequences of their own actions.

The doublespeak is mind numbing.  The "slimdown" (including loss of jobs and benefits) caused by the Teaparty isn't a big deal, but closure of national parks?  WELCOME TO OBAMA'S BERLIN.

I hate the term "slimdown" in this situation.
The economy is already anorexic. Getting slimmer is just going to kill it.


FOX came up with the term when they did the math, and it didn't make them feel better. As I said, they pick one effect of the shutdown, make TV out of it, while in the same breath claim that it isn't a big deal.  It's surreal.
 
2013-10-05 08:19:47 PM  

OgreMagi: udhq: I, for one, am enjoying watching conservatives throw a fit because liberals failed to adequately protect them from the consequences of their own actions.

And I'm enjoying the spectacle of Obama showing how much of a petty little asshole he really is.

/not a Republican


Right, because screw import inspections and food shelves, the presidents top priority should be my weekend trip to Big Bear. Frankly, given what is shutdown, I would be outraged if these tourist traps were open.

Face it, conservatives choose to shut down the government, and THEY are the ones who are OUTRAGED!!!!1! about the services that are not available to them as a result.

Most liberals I know view the shutdown as an annoying, unnecessary but relatively minor inconvenience, but judging by these threads, conservatives seem to be losing their collective shiat after a mere 72 without about 17% of the federal government.
 
2013-10-05 08:20:07 PM  

WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.


So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.
 
2013-10-05 08:20:50 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Mrbogey: Teekno: Well. no, not really. There's nothing to back up the claim that that's why the shoulder was closed.

Why do you think they put cones up?

Why should I believe you over what the NPS says?

Because the NPS said (quoting from the article, not the NPS), "the cones were a safety precaution to help channel cars into viewing areas rather than to bar their entrance"?


Do you like repeating ridiculous excuses? You must. Only an idiot would accept that excuse. You are an idiot
 
2013-10-05 08:20:54 PM  
Atypical Person Reading Fark:

You're speaking of one group of Park Rangers.  There are several types.  One of them is the Old Type:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nations-oldest-full-time-park-ran ge r-furloughed-20478856


That old lady works inside an indoor exhibit that has been shut down.

I spent Monday driving along the coast, 95% of which is the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, a National Park. I head out that way a few times a month, and I have never seen so many National Park Rangers driving around.
 
2013-10-05 08:21:34 PM  

WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.


But doesn't this law have to go past the Senate and the President?
 
2013-10-05 08:22:36 PM  

ginandbacon: I honestly could not care less except that these good men and women are facing horrible financial crises.


Nope. Federal employees receive back pay for the time they don't work once things start back up. They will only have a problem if they are living paycheck to paycheck and don't have credit cards.
 
2013-10-05 08:23:09 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Because the NPS said (quoting from the article, not the NPS), "the cones were a safety precaution to help channel cars into viewing areas rather than to bar their entrance"?


Actually, this would be a case of "The democrats stooping to the GOP's level." Fighting fire with fire just ends up burning a lot of stuff.
 
2013-10-05 08:24:42 PM  

OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.


Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.
 
2013-10-05 08:24:56 PM  

hasty ambush: mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes:

"Excepted employees" include employees who are (1) performing emergency work involving the safety of human life or the property.

Where does the White House portrait photographer figure into this?

President Obama Gets Portrait Taken on Oct. 3, During Government Shutdown


First of all he isn't the White House Portrait Photographer, I'm fairly certain that isn't an actual position.  He's a guy Obama hired to take a portrait photograph, and was likely scheduled well in advance of the shutdown and paid for out of Obama's pocket.
 
2013-10-05 08:24:59 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size


All hail!
 
2013-10-05 08:25:26 PM  

WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.


Historically, no modern shut down has occurred where Federal employees didn't receive back pay for the time they didn't work.
 
2013-10-05 08:25:48 PM  

ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.


Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.
 
2013-10-05 08:25:55 PM  

ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: WippitGuud: ginandbacon:
SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN????????

What should be shut down? That's easy:

NOTHING! It's the farking government. Get off your asses, stop looking like asses on TV, and fix the farking thing. You're Your country is starting to look like a bunch of idiots to the rest of the world.

Yes, I'm aware of the irony of calling someone an idiot while mistyping something.

I hope you weren't calling me an idiot while mistyping things because I am seriously pissed off about this entire ridiculous debacle.

I was generalizing the American internet community (not to mention mass media), and not singling out individuals. I'm sure there are people on both sides of the divide that are not idiots.

*sniff*

Okay then

In the meantime, while the GOP trolls are having midget mental breakdowns because a dead president's home is inaccessible, WIC is about to lose federal funding on Monday. Benefits to feed babies. 

Where are your farking priorities you pieces of shiat assholes?


We can use the babies to feed the homeless.
 
2013-10-05 08:26:14 PM  

BullBearMS: ginandbacon: I honestly could not care less except that these good men and women are facing horrible financial crises.

Nope. Federal employees receive back pay for the time they don't work once things start back up. They will only have a problem if they are living paycheck to paycheck and don't have credit cards.


*Most* government employees are living paycheck to paycheck and are already deeply in debt.
 
2013-10-05 08:26:23 PM  

WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.


It's not a vacation.  And they still aren't getting paid on time.  And until they go back 0% of their work is getting done.  We don't employ those people just for the fun of it.  We employ them to do things that need to be done.   Stuff isn't getting done, and it's going to cost us and anyone who works with us a ton of money, time, and stress.
 
2013-10-05 08:27:15 PM  

ReverendJynxed: [i.imgur.com image 227x400]

All hail!


Not king Bob? Your photoshop-fu needs work!
 
2013-10-05 08:27:24 PM  

ginandbacon: Do you understand that every single department is mandated by sequestration to cut their budgets with no exceptions?


Sequestration was a separate issue. It's already happened and we're months into it.

Teekno: The NPS never said that that was the reason the cones were up.

So, why should I believe you over what the NPS said?


The NPS says they put the cones up on October 1st to keep people from pulling off the roadway to take pictures and gaze upon the mountain. Did you read the article? You're trying to use their justification as dismissal when it's precisely the issue at hand.
 
2013-10-05 08:27:32 PM  

ReverendJynxed: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: WippitGuud: ginandbacon:
SO WHAT SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN????????

What should be shut down? That's easy:

NOTHING! It's the farking government. Get off your asses, stop looking like asses on TV, and fix the farking thing. You're Your country is starting to look like a bunch of idiots to the rest of the world.

Yes, I'm aware of the irony of calling someone an idiot while mistyping something.

I hope you weren't calling me an idiot while mistyping things because I am seriously pissed off about this entire ridiculous debacle.

I was generalizing the American internet community (not to mention mass media), and not singling out individuals. I'm sure there are people on both sides of the divide that are not idiots.

*sniff*

Okay then

In the meantime, while the GOP trolls are having midget mental breakdowns because a dead president's home is inaccessible, WIC is about to lose federal funding on Monday. Benefits to feed babies. 

Where are your farking priorities you pieces of shiat assholes?

We can use the babies to feed the homeless.


Well...there's a swift idea.
 
2013-10-05 08:27:43 PM  

fusillade762: And you can't even LOOK at Mount Rushmore anymore!

[i43.tinypic.com image 570x359]


Sure you can. Just not the scenic side.
3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2013-10-05 08:27:59 PM  

ginandbacon: BullBearMS: ginandbacon: I honestly could not care less except that these good men and women are facing horrible financial crises.

Nope. Federal employees receive back pay for the time they don't work once things start back up. They will only have a problem if they are living paycheck to paycheck and don't have credit cards.

*Most* government employees are living paycheck to paycheck and are already deeply in debt.


And if this only lasts until their next paycheck, they have nothing to worry about.

So... who's responsible for fixing it?
 
2013-10-05 08:28:02 PM  

ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.


You don't have savings for life's ups and downs? Poor people's problems, shouldn't be federal worker problems. Bummer.
 
2013-10-05 08:28:16 PM  

ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.


They've had months of warning that this might happen.  If they didn't plan for temporary unemployment, then they deserve what they get.  Besides, I consider the majority of Federal workers to be leeches upon society.
 
2013-10-05 08:29:00 PM  

mr_larry: Atypical Person Reading Fark:

You're speaking of one group of Park Rangers.  There are several types.  One of them is the Old Type:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nations-oldest-full-time-park-ran ge r-furloughed-20478856

That old lady works inside an indoor exhibit that has been shut down.

I spent Monday driving along the coast, 95% of which is the Golden Gate National Recreation Area, a National Park. I head out that way a few times a month, and I have never seen so many National Park Rangers driving around.


Like I said, there are different types of rangers.  I happen to know that old lady, and her exhibit wasn't shut down.  She does various interpretive work on a part time basis - and can probably afford to take the furlough, but she was still furloughed.  About 100 other interpretive rangers at RNP have been furloughed (many work reduced hours in winter anyway).

Odd you saw so many rangers out and about.  Sort of like the "volunteer" police in D.C., I guess.  There's not a soul at any station in the NF near me.  I live just outside a NF.

And 235 people furloughed at the park where I have worked in the past.  The park supervisor is a friend of mine.  Now, at that park, most of those people would have gone on part time schedules in December, but they were full time right now (it's a busy time of year for ranger work in that park - road maintenance, tree removal near campgrounds, etc - they can't chop down trees when there are paying guests and the campgrounds have begun to close).  About 100 rangers remain...and I wouldn't be surprised if their main duty was patrolling right now.  Not tree chopping.
 
2013-10-05 08:31:31 PM  
Isn't a selective shutdown just more patronage politics?
 
2013-10-05 08:31:34 PM  

ginandbacon: BullBearMS: ginandbacon: I honestly could not care less except that these good men and women are facing horrible financial crises.

Nope. Federal employees receive back pay for the time they don't work once things start back up. They will only have a problem if they are living paycheck to paycheck and don't have credit cards.

*Most* government employees are living paycheck to paycheck and are already deeply in debt.


Do you honestly think just because you are wiling to make shiat up everyone will believe it?

Citation needed.
 
2013-10-05 08:31:45 PM  

BullBearMS: Nope. Federal employees receive back pay for the time they don't work once things start back up. They will only have a problem if they are living paycheck to paycheck and don't have credit cards.


Mostly all they need to do is contact their creditors ahead of time (like now while they have the time off anyway) and explain that they are a furloughed federal worker due to the current budget battles and they will be fine. The people who bill them can read a newspaper and they do understand the situation of the people that they bill. What they don't like is non-payment with no explanation. I once had a paycheck delayed during the 1986 budget battles and all of them that I contacted understood and let me slide for a few weeks with no hit on my credit report.
 
2013-10-05 08:32:03 PM  

Radioactive Ass: TuteTibiImperes: They're not closing the parks just to close them, they're closing them because the park rangers and security have been furloughed and it would be negligent and irresponsible to keep them open without the proper support staff in place.

They forced the closing of a fancy restaurant in San Francisco (the Cliff House) that has existed pretty much since the state of California has been a state. Never mind that the access, parking and, well, everything actually, including law enforcement and EMS, all are the responsibility of, and owned by San Francisco. The only reason that the NPS is involved at all was because when they formed the GGNRA in 1977 they claimed that part of the restaurant sat inside it and therefore was a concession under NPS rules. It fronts a city street and has all of the parking spaces owned by the city. It costs them absolutely nothing to operate on a day to day basis, employ's people who don't get a paycheck from them, yet they forced them to close down over this. Absolutely pointless other than to play the "Make it hurt" game.


You don't understand. They had to do it because [reasons].

TuteTibiImperes: First of all he isn't the White House Portrait Photographer, I'm fairly certain that isn't an actual position. He's a guy Obama hired to take a portrait photograph, and was likely scheduled well in advance of the shutdown and paid for out of Obama's pocket.


You're fairly sure?

Why don't you google it so you can be certain.
 
2013-10-05 08:32:16 PM  

OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.


I'm not, this farking sucks.    I don't even care about the money.   The project I've been working on all year with dozens of people at a very large sunk cost might be a complete waste depending on how long this goes.
 
2013-10-05 08:33:56 PM  
THANKS A LOT KING OBAMA!!!
 
2013-10-05 08:34:39 PM  

super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.


That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.
 
2013-10-05 08:35:53 PM  

udhq: super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.

That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.


Meh.  This is turning into another "federal workers are overpaid leeches" troll thread.  Guess when you're losing the argument, troll for another.
 
2013-10-05 08:36:10 PM  

OgreMagi: I consider the majority of Federal workers to be leeches upon society.


dl.dropboxusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2013-10-05 08:36:38 PM  

udhq: super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.

That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.


My heart goes out to those poor, poor executive leaders.
 
2013-10-05 08:36:42 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: First of all he isn't the White House Portrait Photographer, I'm fairly certain that isn't an actual position. He's a guy Obama hired to take a portrait photograph, and was likely scheduled well in advance of the shutdown and paid for out of Obama's pocket.


White House Photographer is an official paid position and is considered a member of the White House Staff, just like a chef or a butler..
 
2013-10-05 08:36:50 PM  

Mrbogey: Radioactive Ass: TuteTibiImperes: They're not closing the parks just to close them, they're closing them because the park rangers and security have been furloughed and it would be negligent and irresponsible to keep them open without the proper support staff in place.

They forced the closing of a fancy restaurant in San Francisco (the Cliff House) that has existed pretty much since the state of California has been a state. Never mind that the access, parking and, well, everything actually, including law enforcement and EMS, all are the responsibility of, and owned by San Francisco. The only reason that the NPS is involved at all was because when they formed the GGNRA in 1977 they claimed that part of the restaurant sat inside it and therefore was a concession under NPS rules. It fronts a city street and has all of the parking spaces owned by the city. It costs them absolutely nothing to operate on a day to day basis, employ's people who don't get a paycheck from them, yet they forced them to close down over this. Absolutely pointless other than to play the "Make it hurt" game.

You don't understand. They had to do it because [reasons].

TuteTibiImperes: First of all he isn't the White House Portrait Photographer, I'm fairly certain that isn't an actual position. He's a guy Obama hired to take a portrait photograph, and was likely scheduled well in advance of the shutdown and paid for out of Obama's pocket.

You're fairly sure?

Why don't you google it so you can be certain.


Great, I did, and I was correct, there is no 'White House Portrait Photographer'.  There is an official White House Photographer and Photography Office, which makes sense given diplomatic duties associated with the President, but no 'Portrait Photographer'.  Also, the guy who took the portrait was not the official White House Photographer.
 
2013-10-05 08:39:00 PM  

WippitGuud: Actually, this would be a case of "The democrats stooping to the GOP's level." Fighting fire with fire just ends up burning a lot of stuff.


The funny thing is, it works if you do it right.

Unfortunately, the Obama Administration has been doing it wrong since 2008, and it's making everyone really mis Dubya, who for all his faults, did it right whenever he did something. The Democrats had to carry the goalposts clear out of town to turn his "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq into a quagmire.
 
2013-10-05 08:39:10 PM  

udhq: super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.

That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.


Nope.  Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.


motherjones.comView Full Size


Here's the full article: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/chart-day-federal-gover n ment-pay-vs-private-sector-pay
 
2013-10-05 08:43:13 PM  
In some areas, people who work in the private sector are going to feel the economic effects of the furloughs.

Of course, it's amazing that the Pentagon, apparently, employs 400,000 of those furloughed - and they get to come back to work.  Really, Pentagon?  400,000???

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-pentagon-to -r ecall-400000-furloughed-workers-20131005,0,4608141.story

Some sources say only 350,000, but still.
 
2013-10-05 08:43:28 PM  

ginandbacon: Lsherm: cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.

No but "Designated accessible parking spaces are available at the front of the East and West Visitor Parking Lots on each side of the George Washington Memorial Parkway, which are owned and maintained by the National Park Service" so it's funny how reality doesn't really support this narrative, hmm?

Does it seem like a lot of GOP trolls are out today spreading lies?


And what is the cost of not closing the parking lot? Zero. Zilch. Not a penny. In the interest of saving money due to the shutdown, they've spent money closing a parking lot that it would have cost nothing to leave open.
 
2013-10-05 08:44:03 PM  

fullyfarked: WippitGuud: ginandbacon: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

Well before this there was the giant kerfuffle over the cessation of WH tours. I guess we have a fairly good Rorschach test for Republican values.

To be honest, I've lost quite a bit of respect for liberal-minded Americans who are trying to defend the closures as well. Because, quite frankly. spending the first week of a government shutdown arguing over tourist attractions is a bit stupid.

This.


True,   some of the whining coming from the left these days makes them look bad.
 
2013-10-05 08:44:31 PM  

OgreMagi: Nope. Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.


The social contract there is that you are paid less for a more stable job. Private sector jobs rely upon the economy (local and national) while government jobs usually perform services that are paid for out of taxes and thus are immune to a lot of that economic pressure.
 
2013-10-05 08:46:23 PM  

Radioactive Ass: OgreMagi: Nope. Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.

The social contract there is that you are paid less for a more stable job. Private sector jobs rely upon the economy (local and national) while government jobs usually perform services that are paid for out of taxes and thus are immune to a lot of that economic pressure.


Go back and read that chart again.  You get paid MORE working for the Feds.
 
2013-10-05 08:46:57 PM  

Mrbogey: The NPS says they put the cones up on October 1st to keep people from pulling off the roadway to take pictures and gaze upon the mountain. Did you read the article? You're trying to use their justification as dismissal when it's precisely the issue at hand.


Actually, I did read the article. And that's not what it says.
 
2013-10-05 08:48:50 PM  
and even if the government owns the land...who owns the government?WE THE PEOPLE
 
2013-10-05 08:49:09 PM  

OgreMagi: Radioactive Ass: OgreMagi: Nope. Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.

The social contract there is that you are paid less for a more stable job. Private sector jobs rely upon the economy (local and national) while government jobs usually perform services that are paid for out of taxes and thus are immune to a lot of that economic pressure.

Go back and read that chart again.  You get paid MORE working for the Feds.


Only after benefits are considered.  Federal jobs typically have lower salaries but better benefits packages.  If you want to compare salary vs salary, the private sector pays more most of the time.
 
2013-10-05 08:49:59 PM  

OgreMagi: udhq: super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.

That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.

Nope.  Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.


[www.motherjones.com image 557x342]

Here's the full article: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/chart-day-federal-gover n ment-pay-vs-private-sector-pay


Is the government short-chainging the NASA eggheads?
 
2013-10-05 08:51:58 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: OgreMagi: Radioactive Ass: OgreMagi: Nope. Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.

The social contract there is that you are paid less for a more stable job. Private sector jobs rely upon the economy (local and national) while government jobs usually perform services that are paid for out of taxes and thus are immune to a lot of that economic pressure.

Go back and read that chart again.  You get paid MORE working for the Feds.

Only after benefits are considered.  Federal jobs typically have lower salaries but better benefits packages.  If you want to compare salary vs salary, the private sector pays more most of the time.


The chart shows that.  The difference seems miniscule to me.
 
2013-10-05 08:52:00 PM  

Atypical Person Reading Fark: These are State Highways (although the Feds claim they own or maintain Highway 64 inside Grand Canyon)


Oh, so the Feds have no jurisdiction over state highways that pass through federal property? Tell you what, go speed on one of the Maryland state highways that pass through Fort Meade, and when the MPs pull you over, tell them they can fark off. But please - be sure to have a friend record the skull-cracking and post a link for us, would ya?
 
2013-10-05 08:54:02 PM  

super_grass: OgreMagi: udhq: super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.

That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.

Nope.  Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.


[www.motherjones.com image 557x342]

Here's the full article: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/chart-day-federal-gover n ment-pay-vs-private-sector-pay

Is the government short-chainging the NASA eggheads?


Yep.  I don't have the link since it was from a couple of years ago, but someone posted something about one hour of the Iraq war costing more than an entire year of NASA.
 
2013-10-05 08:56:41 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: But none of these closings are stunts, right?

Remember, the WWII Memorial is open and unmanned at all times, 24-7-365, so its security and closure must be airtight during the shutdown!  And lots and lots of money will be spent to make sure of that!


Somebody in Congress should put forth a bill that states that any government element that has an equal or greater than number of government employees onsite is deemed to NOT be shutdown and is open to the public as it is during normal business hours.
 
2013-10-05 08:58:08 PM  

ImpendingCynic: Atypical Person Reading Fark: These are State Highways (although the Feds claim they own or maintain Highway 64 inside Grand Canyon)

Oh, so the Feds have no jurisdiction over state highways that pass through federal property? Tell you what, go speed on one of the Maryland state highways that pass through Fort Meade, and when the MPs pull you over, tell them they can fark off. But please - be sure to have a friend record the skull-cracking and post a link for us, would ya?


Well, I don't know about jurisdiction, but their shutdown contingency plan called for them to leave state roads open.  I'm not talking about who polices the roads, I'm talking about who has the right to open and close them.

Anyway, Tioga Road (120) through Yosemite is open; all the state highways in Yellowstone are open; the General's Highway in Kings Canyon/Sequoia is open - all state highways on federal land.

It's only Highways 64 in Arizona and 198 here in California, that I know of.  The state highways that go through Redwood National Park are definitely open (and even the county roads, there).

So merely going through federal land is not the issue.  Read the contingency plan.  It says they are supposed to leave state highways open.
 
2013-10-05 08:58:56 PM  

Alphakronik: While there are kids going without formula or milk, I could give a rats ass about the national parks or Mt. Vernon.


Sorry, but that's the parent's job not the gov't.
 
2013-10-05 08:59:04 PM  

super_grass: udhq: super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.

That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.

My heart goes out to those poor, poor executive leaders.


Obama makes about 450k.

If he led an organization of similar size and scope I'm the private sector, he'd make about 60million in total compensation (most of which would be in VERY lightly taxed stock options), and he's not even the highest paid employee of the federal government. That honor goes to the football coaches at the military academies.

I'm not saying the president should get paid more, I'm mostly pointing out the complete and utter failure of free market capitalism at the top end.
 
2013-10-05 09:03:10 PM  

udhq: super_grass: udhq: super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.

That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.

My heart goes out to those poor, poor executive leaders.

Obama makes about 450k.

If he led an organization of similar size and scope I'm the private sector, he'd make about 60million in total compensation (most of which would be in VERY lightly taxed stock options), and he's not even the highest paid employee of the federal government. That honor goes to the football coaches at the military academies.

I'm not saying the president should get paid more, I'm mostly pointing out the complete and utter failure of free market capitalism at the top end.


They make up for the low compensation by having the inside track on what to buy and sell in the stock market.  And lets not forget those sweet lobbyist bribes gifts.
 
2013-10-05 09:04:04 PM  

OgreMagi: TuteTibiImperes: OgreMagi: Radioactive Ass: OgreMagi: Nope. Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.

The social contract there is that you are paid less for a more stable job. Private sector jobs rely upon the economy (local and national) while government jobs usually perform services that are paid for out of taxes and thus are immune to a lot of that economic pressure.

Go back and read that chart again.  You get paid MORE working for the Feds.

Only after benefits are considered.  Federal jobs typically have lower salaries but better benefits packages.  If you want to compare salary vs salary, the private sector pays more most of the time.

The chart shows that.  The difference seems miniscule to me.


To slip into non-snarkiness for a moment (though somewhat fueled by a nice Willamette Pinot), I will say that I personally don't mind paying for quality, as long as we are comparing apples to apples and the result is measurably better. If we are comparing state college degrees to Ivy League degrees, or English degrees to Petroleum Engineering degrees, though, salary and benefits comparisons tend toward silliness.

/hmm, the Pinot seems to be making my cheeks flush. I hope I haven't said anything indefensible. :)
 
2013-10-05 09:05:26 PM  

ginandbacon: eltejon: So is the whole damn GW Parkway.

They also closed the parking and picnic pavilions at Claud Moore Colonial Farm:

Um you do realize those are under Federal jurisdiction, right?


And thus why I mentioned them. You know the GW starts at the front door of Mt Vernon and is NPS. And while they are at it they could close the BW too.

As for Claude Moore, yes, I also realize it is NPS. Kind of why I linked the article.
 
2013-10-05 09:05:57 PM  
This thread delivers. Much more fun than the politics threads.
 
2013-10-05 09:05:59 PM  

OgreMagi: udhq: super_grass: udhq: super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.

That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.

My heart goes out to those poor, poor executive leaders.

Obama makes about 450k.

If he led an organization of similar size and scope I'm the private sector, he'd make about 60million in total compensation (most of which would be in VERY lightly taxed stock options), and he's not even the highest paid employee of the federal government. That honor goes to the football coaches at the military academies.

I'm not saying the president should get paid more, I'm mostly pointing out the complete and utter failure of free market capitalism at the top end.

They make up for the low compensation by having the inside track on what to buy and sell in the stock market.  And lets not forget those sweet lobbyist bribes gifts.


I may be wrong, but isn't the president specifically required to put his portfolio in a blind trust while he's in office?
 
2013-10-05 09:06:15 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Mrbogey: Teekno: Well. no, not really. There's nothing to back up the claim that that's why the shoulder was closed.

Why do you think they put cones up?

Why should I believe you over what the NPS says?

Because the NPS said (quoting from the article, not the NPS), "the cones were a safety precaution to help channel cars into viewing areas rather than to bar their entrance"?


That picture with all of the cones is specifically blocking a pullout on the road that's there for viewing Washington's profile. And just off to the right is another pullout for traffic in the opposite direction.
 
2013-10-05 09:08:18 PM  

udhq: OgreMagi: udhq: super_grass: udhq: super_grass: ginandbacon: OgreMagi: WippitGuud: PanicMan: I don't give a shiat.  800,000 people are out of a job.  Cram the national parks up your ass.

A law passed the House today, 208-0, that those 800,000 will receive 100% of their back-pay once they are back to work. So, they are simply on vacation.

So if you're a government worker, you should be hoping for a very long shut down.

Because not paying bills on time usually works out well for most people.

Should have saved money then.

Federal workers earn more than private sector workers, with better benefits to boot.

That is absolute streaming bullshiat.

The rule of thumb is 10-20%, the last actual comparison I read says that a federal worker makes 17% less t than someone doing the same job in the private sector.

That goes up exponentially if you look just at executive leadership.

The only way it works is if you compare total averages, ie including the army of minimum wage earners in the private sector.

My heart goes out to those poor, poor executive leaders.

Obama makes about 450k.

If he led an organization of similar size and scope I'm the private sector, he'd make about 60million in total compensation (most of which would be in VERY lightly taxed stock options), and he's not even the highest paid employee of the federal government. That honor goes to the football coaches at the military academies.

I'm not saying the president should get paid more, I'm mostly pointing out the complete and utter failure of free market capitalism at the top end.

They make up for the low compensation by having the inside track on what to buy and sell in the stock market.  And lets not forget those sweet lobbyist bribes gifts.

I may be wrong, but isn't the president specifically required to put his portfolio in a blind trust while he's in office?


I'm not sure. I remember in a Clancy novel that he did it voluntarily.  But Clancy fiction no way represents reality.  I know that senators don't do that.  They are also exempted from insider trading laws.

It should be the law that all elected officials and their immediate family must have all assets managed by a double blind trust.  Ain't gonna happen.
 
2013-10-05 09:11:22 PM  

Summercat: fullyfarked: TuteTibiImperes: brimed03: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

The GOP has no plan to fix this shutdown, and they're refusing to do the one fair thing that would end it right now - pass a clean CR.  They're trying to obfuscate the issue, which is par for the course.  They don't actually do anything, they just obfuscate and obstruct.

^^^^^^^
100% pure, unedited top-shelf Democrat party talking points... right down to the "Clean CR" reference, which was invented out of nothing just to have something high-and-mighty sounding to spice up sound bites.

Except that these 'talking points' have the side benefit of being ground in reality.


Except there should NOT be a clean CR. Nor should there be a dirty CR. There should be a BUDGET passed that the Dems have blocked every year since Bummer took office. If that had happened, we wouldn't be in the spot we're in now. In fact, if the different appropriations bills were to be passed separately like they used to be before some lazy ass Congress started rolling them up into Omnibus bills, there never would be any such thing as shutting down the whole government because some dick in office is having a hissy fit.
 
2013-10-05 09:13:01 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: Summercat: fullyfarked: TuteTibiImperes: brimed03: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

The GOP has no plan to fix this shutdown, and they're refusing to do the one fair thing that would end it right now - pass a clean CR.  They're trying to obfuscate the issue, which is par for the course.  They don't actually do anything, they just obfuscate and obstruct.

^^^^^^^
100% pure, unedited top-shelf Democrat party talking points... right down to the "Clean CR" reference, which was invented out of nothing just to have something high-and-mighty sounding to spice up sound bites.

Except that these 'talking points' have the side benefit of being ground in reality.

Except there should NOT be a clean CR. Nor should there be a dirty CR. There should be a BUDGET passed that the Dems have blocked every year since Bummer took office. If that had happened, we wouldn't be in the spot we're in now. In fact, if the different appropriations bills were to be passed separately like they used to be before some lazy ass Congress started rolling them up into Omnibus bills, there never would be any such thing as shutting down the whole government because some dick in office is having a hissy fit.


The dicks you're searching for are in the House, they're the ones proposing budgets that don't adequately fund the government and the necessary programs it runs.  Let the House pass the budget that Obama and the Senate propose and there will be smooth sailing.
 
2013-10-05 09:13:30 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: hasty ambush: mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes:

"Excepted employees" include employees who are (1) performing emergency work involving the safety of human life or the property.

Where does the White House portrait photographer figure into this?

President Obama Gets Portrait Taken on Oct. 3, During Government Shutdown

First of all he isn't the White House Portrait Photographer, I'm fairly certain that isn't an actual position.  He's a guy Obama hired to take a portrait photograph, and was likely scheduled well in advance of the shutdown and paid for out of Obama's pocket.


citation?
 
2013-10-05 09:14:18 PM  

OgreMagi: Go back and read that chart again. You get paid MORE working for the Feds.


I should have said that "The way it used to be is that"...

That's what I was saying in my head when I typed that but I got distracted. Govt. jobs should almost never pay better than their civilian equivalents unless it's a critical position. The last "Government" job that I had (local, literally burning poop) was roughly 1/2 wage and 1/2 benefits (they counted all expenses that I cost them as benefits including the 7.5% that they paid into my SSA account and so on in that calculation. In other words, if I were a private contractor what would I have to include in my overall estimate to do the job for them). They didn't want to tell us that information but I once saw a log book that had it in them (the log was there to split costs between several different municipalities based upon where the work was being done). I was being paid ~$11 an hour (mid-90's in central PA so not too bad for the area at the time) but the cost to them was ~$21 an hour once all things were taken into account.
 
2013-10-05 09:16:09 PM  

Radioactive Ass: OgreMagi: Go back and read that chart again. You get paid MORE working for the Feds.

I should have said that "The way it used to be is that"...

That's what I was saying in my head when I typed that but I got distracted. Govt. jobs should almost never pay better than their civilian equivalents unless it's a critical position. The last "Government" job that I had (local, literally burning poop) was roughly 1/2 wage and 1/2 benefits (they counted all expenses that I cost them as benefits including the 7.5% that they paid into my SSA account and so on in that calculation. In other words, if I were a private contractor what would I have to include in my overall estimate to do the job for them). They didn't want to tell us that information but I once saw a log book that had it in them (the log was there to split costs between several different municipalities based upon where the work was being done). I was being paid ~$11 an hour (mid-90's in central PA so not too bad for the area at the time) but the cost to them was ~$21 an hour once all things were taken into account.


That used to be the case.  Lower pay, but killer benefits and the best job stability around.  It was a reasonable compromise.
 
2013-10-05 09:18:56 PM  

anyQTmovie: Alphakronik: While there are kids going without formula or milk, I could give a rats ass about the national parks or Mt. Vernon.

Sorry, but that's the parent's job not the gov't.


Americans don't let other Americans starve.
You just bought yourself a ride, little one.
 
2013-10-05 09:20:09 PM  
Instead of dollar amounts, why isn't the federal budget apportioned as a percentage of tax revenue? Sure, you would need a dollar amount to buy a new tank or federal building, but you could prioritize spending within that percentage -- "We apportion 19% of the federal income to defense and security, and hey, if we get more than $689 billion we will buy another tank!" or whatever.
 
2013-10-05 09:20:13 PM  

hasty ambush: TuteTibiImperes: hasty ambush: mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: mr_larry: TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes:

"Excepted employees" include employees who are (1) performing emergency work involving the safety of human life or the property.

Where does the White House portrait photographer figure into this?

President Obama Gets Portrait Taken on Oct. 3, During Government Shutdown

First of all he isn't the White House Portrait Photographer, I'm fairly certain that isn't an actual position.  He's a guy Obama hired to take a portrait photograph, and was likely scheduled well in advance of the shutdown and paid for out of Obama's pocket.

citation?


This is the guy who took Obama's portrait.   This is the official White House Photographer (notice how they're not the same guy.  Also notice how there is not an official White House Portrait Photographer).  Personal expenses are supposed to come from the President's own money.  Since this doesn't seem to be an official portrait, that means it was likely paid out of the President's own accounts, if payment was required at all.  There's a good chance that the photographer requested the opportunity to have a session with Obama pro-bono just for the notoriety and to add to his own portfolio.
 
2013-10-05 09:21:13 PM  

Snarfangel: Instead of dollar amounts, why isn't the federal budget apportioned as a percentage of tax revenue? Sure, you would need a dollar amount to buy a new tank or federal building, but you could prioritize spending within that percentage -- "We apportion 19% of the federal income to defense and security, and hey, if we get more than $689 billion we will buy another tank!" or whatever.


Because that would make sense.  What are you thinking?
 
2013-10-05 09:23:05 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The dicks you're searching for are in the House,


John Boner.
John Boner.
John Boner.

You do realize that John Boner is the only person causing this right now, right?
John Boner won't be humiliated bu Barack Obama.

Boner could order the vote for the clean CR and this would end.
 
2013-10-05 09:23:35 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Benjimin_Dover: Summercat: fullyfarked: TuteTibiImperes: brimed03: WippitGuud: It's funny how a government shutdown has become entirely focused on National Parks. Rather than, oh, I dunno... fixing the farking shutdown.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A large part of that is due to the GOP media machine manufacturing outrage over this and trying to paint it as a deliberate Democratic Party move to hurt people instead of the reality that these moves are just to ensure the just public safety and integrity of federal property.

The GOP has no plan to fix this shutdown, and they're refusing to do the one fair thing that would end it right now - pass a clean CR.  They're trying to obfuscate the issue, which is par for the course.  They don't actually do anything, they just obfuscate and obstruct.

^^^^^^^
100% pure, unedited top-shelf Democrat party talking points... right down to the "Clean CR" reference, which was invented out of nothing just to have something high-and-mighty sounding to spice up sound bites.

Except that these 'talking points' have the side benefit of being ground in reality.

Except there should NOT be a clean CR. Nor should there be a dirty CR. There should be a BUDGET passed that the Dems have blocked every year since Bummer took office. If that had happened, we wouldn't be in the spot we're in now. In fact, if the different appropriations bills were to be passed separately like they used to be before some lazy ass Congress started rolling them up into Omnibus bills, there never would be any such thing as shutting down the whole government because some dick in office is having a hissy fit.

The dicks you're searching for are in the House, they're the ones proposing budgets that don't adequately fund the government and the necessary programs it runs.  Let the House pass the budget that Obama and the Senate propose and there will be smooth sailing.


The House is the house that is responsible for determining what and how much gets spent not the Senate and not the President. Why? Because that is the house that represents the people and does the people's work. Only a Dem would have a problem with what the people want.
 
2013-10-05 09:23:51 PM  

ginandbacon: Lsherm: cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.

No but "Designated accessible parking spaces are available at the front of the East and West Visitor Parking Lots on each side of the George Washington Memorial Parkway, which are owned and maintained by the National Park Service" so it's funny how reality doesn't really support this narrative, hmm?

Does it seem like a lot of GOP trolls are out today spreading lies?


Today?
 
2013-10-05 09:27:34 PM  

Mrbogey: By LAW they have to shut down anything that is open to the public. It says right there in the Declaration of Independence, ipso facto QED!


You better listen to him, he's pre-med.
 
2013-10-05 09:30:12 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If you're pissed off, direct your ire to the House Republicans, this is entirely on them.


Of course its the Democrats who are making public displays on closing things down, even if they are unmanned or never close, or in this case don't even own it.


All Obama has to do is sign the budget the house sent him, you see its Obama who is shutting the government down by his inaction.
 
2013-10-05 09:30:31 PM  

EnderX: Mrbogey: By LAW they have to shut down anything that is open to the public. It says right there in the Declaration of Independence, ipso facto QED!

You better listen to him, he's pre-med.


Or pre-medicated.
 
2013-10-05 09:30:45 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: OgreMagi: Radioactive Ass: OgreMagi: Nope. Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.

The social contract there is that you are paid less for a more stable job. Private sector jobs rely upon the economy (local and national) while government jobs usually perform services that are paid for out of taxes and thus are immune to a lot of that economic pressure.

Go back and read that chart again.  You get paid MORE working for the Feds.

Only after benefits are considered.  Federal jobs typically have lower salaries but better benefits packages.  If you want to compare salary vs salary, the private sector pays more most of the time.


Here is a good trivia question: 6 of the 10 wealthiest counties in the US are suburbs of what city?
 
2013-10-05 09:33:48 PM  

udhq: 'm not saying the president should get paid more, I'm mostly pointing out the complete and utter failure of free market capitalism at the top end.


Because the bribe money doesn't come in until later?

As former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton embarks on her new career as a paid speaker, she joins a lucrative family business that already has earned her husband more than $100 million since leaving office in 2001.
 
2013-10-05 09:34:13 PM  
If they really wanted to piss a  bunch of people off, shut down the civilian side of GPS or at least enable Selective Availability for 24 hours. Geocachers would be storming the palace gates in no time.

/dither them last few decimal points
 
2013-10-05 09:36:37 PM  

fusillade762: ginandbacon: Lsherm: cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.

No but "Designated accessible parking spaces are available at the front of the East and West Visitor Parking Lots on each side of the George Washington Memorial Parkway, which are owned and maintained by the National Park Service" so it's funny how reality doesn't really support this narrative, hmm?

Does it seem like a lot of GOP trolls are out today spreading lies?

Today?


Oh FFS, I must have blinked.
 
2013-10-05 09:36:47 PM  

OgreMagi: I'm not sure. I remember in a Clancy novel that he did it voluntarily. But Clancy fiction no way represents reality. I know that senators don't do that. They are also exempted from insider trading laws.


Members of Congress have never been exempted from insider trading laws, but they recently broadened the definition so the laws explicitly do apply to them. And high level executive branch employees, President included, are required to put their assets in a blind trust.
 
2013-10-05 09:37:40 PM  
thebestofthailand.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2013-10-05 09:38:28 PM  

BullBearMS: udhq: 'm not saying the president should get paid more, I'm mostly pointing out the complete and utter failure of free market capitalism at the top end.

Because the bribe money doesn't come in until later?

As former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton embarks on her new career as a paid speaker, she joins a lucrative family business that already has earned her husband more than $100 million since leaving office in 2001.


Not a fan of free market capitalism, are you?
 
2013-10-05 09:39:23 PM  

BullBearMS: udhq: 'm not saying the president should get paid more, I'm mostly pointing out the complete and utter failure of free market capitalism at the top end.

Because the bribe money doesn't come in until later?

As former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton embarks on her new career as a paid speaker, she joins a lucrative family business that already has earned her husband more than $100 million since leaving office in 2001.


In Bill's case, that's pretty much all from his book and paid speaking fees. Amazingly, when you're a President, people are willing to give you a few hundred thousand dollars a pop to come and give a lecture somewhere. Bill charges anywhere from nothing to a million bucks depending on who you are. Good work if you can get it.
 
2013-10-05 09:39:26 PM  

cptjeff: OgreMagi: I'm not sure. I remember in a Clancy novel that he did it voluntarily. But Clancy fiction no way represents reality. I know that senators don't do that. They are also exempted from insider trading laws.

Members of Congress have never been exempted from insider trading laws, but they recently broadened the definition so the laws explicitly do apply to them. And high level executive branch employees, President included, are required to put their assets in a blind trust.


You are wrong.  They were exempt, at least the Senate was.  They temporarily changed that because it was an election year.  They have since rolled that law back because they didn't like having to follow laws meant for us peasants.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130416/08344222725/congress-quick ly -quietly-rolls-back-insider-trading-rules-itself.shtml
 
2013-10-05 09:41:44 PM  

TheMega: Have to love the comments by the pathetically, uneducated Repukes and Tea Party nutjobs.... Or, is it hate them?  Yeah, hate them.


I like your informative, insightful post.  It has helped me change my opinion.   You must have stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.
 
2013-10-05 09:42:40 PM  
After a little research, it seems very plausible that there were lots of rangers in the Point Reyes/GG area today.  The unpaid rangers volunteered to staff the road entrances and try to keep people out.

They are irritated, for some reason.
 
2013-10-05 09:45:20 PM  

cptjeff: Amazingly, when you're a President, people are willing to give you a few hundred thousand dollars a pop to come and give a lecture somewhere.


Yea... Not so much people as banks...

In 2004, Clinton got $250,000 from Citigroup and $150,000 from Deutsche Bank. Goldman paid him $300,000 for two speeches, one in Paris. As the bubble peaked, in 2006, Clinton got $150,000 paydays each from Citigroup (twice), Lehman Brothers, the Mortgage Bankers Association, and the National Association of Realtors. In 2007, it was Goldman again, twice, Lehman, Citigroup, and Merrill Lynch.

All he had to do was kill Glass Steagall, prevent derivatives from being regulated, and enable the filthy rich to screw the middle class by allowing them to move the manufacturing jobs out of the United States without any of those nasty financial penalties you had before the days of free trade agreements.
 
2013-10-05 09:46:55 PM  

a particular individual: BullBearMS: Both parties are acting like petulant little children currently.

Yes. The GOP and the Tea Party are both acting like petulant little children.


Aren't you the clever one....now that you've proven yourself to be so smart...isn't it time you make a poopy in the potty instead of your diaper.
 
2013-10-05 09:48:20 PM  

InternetSecurityGuard: If they really wanted to piss a bunch of people off, shut down the civilian side of GPS or at least enable Selective Availability for 24 hours. Geocachers would be storming the palace gates in no time.


If they could find them.
 
2013-10-05 09:51:14 PM  

OgreMagi: cptjeff: OgreMagi: I'm not sure. I remember in a Clancy novel that he did it voluntarily. But Clancy fiction no way represents reality. I know that senators don't do that. They are also exempted from insider trading laws.

Members of Congress have never been exempted from insider trading laws, but they recently broadened the definition so the laws explicitly do apply to them. And high level executive branch employees, President included, are required to put their assets in a blind trust.

You are wrong.  They were exempt, at least the Senate was.  They temporarily changed that because it was an election year.  They have since rolled that law back because they didn't like having to follow laws meant for us peasants.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130416/08344222725/congress-quick ly -quietly-rolls-back-insider-trading-rules-itself.shtml


If my BA% is .06, am I "exempted" from drunk driving laws? They weren't exempt, what they were doing was simply not considered to be insider trading as a matter of definition. The "exempt" language was deliberately chosen to drum up outrage. It is not an accurate description of what the case was. An exemption is when the law says, "even when X person is doing these things, they don't have to answer to this law". Until the late 90s, IIRC, that was the case with employment laws- Congress explicitly said that those laws did not apply to them. That was not the case with the insider trading rules. They always applied to Congress, but what Congress was doing did not meet the definition of the crime.

The rollback, BTW, didn't affect that change. It changed reporting requirements for staff and a lot of agency employees that would have forced tens of thousands of workers to release of a lot of sensitive financial information- including those in foreign assignments where the release of certain information like mortgages could have put them and their families at significant personal risk. The rollback you're ranting about was a fix to an incredibly badly conceived and written part of the law. Unless you want terrorist groups to be able to find the home address of our Ambassador to Columbia on Google.
 
2013-10-05 09:52:52 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: The House is the house that is responsible for determining what and how much gets spent not the Senate and not the President. Why? Because that is the house that represents the people and does the people's work. Only a Dem would have a problem with what the people want.


You're wrong on several counts.

The House, as it sits currently, does not represent the people.  Due to rampant gerrymandering the House has a Republican majority, when in fact the majority of votes for House of Representative members went to Democrats.  The majority of the people would obviously prefer a liberally inclined House, but the Republicans have gamed the system such that we do not have that.

Next, the President writes the budget, and then sends it to the House and Senate for approval.  Once the House and Senate agree on a budget, it becomes binding and can go to appropriations.  The President and Senate have had no problem agreeing on a budget - the House is the holdout, and the one causing trouble, resulting in these repeated CRs.
 
2013-10-05 09:56:49 PM  
Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has officially rebuffed a request from National Park Service to close several state park sites.
 
2013-10-05 09:57:20 PM  
Due to the Nat'l Parks being closed, the leaves with not change color this year.  Nope.  Not going to do it.
 
2013-10-05 10:00:04 PM  
So the Senate is likely to pass the "let's pay the furloughed" bill, but apparently some of them have the common sense to require them to also go back to work.

Duh.
 
2013-10-05 10:01:32 PM  
What a bunch of manufactured drama queenery.  The dumb-and-dumber act in congress is reaching new lows.  Though maybe some good will come of this when we discover we don't need most of the non-essential government employees in the first place.
 
2013-10-05 10:02:06 PM  

InternetSecurityGuard: If they really wanted to piss a  bunch of people off, shut down the civilian side of GPS or at least enable Selective Availability for 24 hours. Geocachers would be storming the palace gates in no time.

/dither them last few decimal points


If they could find the gates.
 
2013-10-05 10:03:33 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The President and Senate have had no problem agreeing on a budget - the House is the holdout


Do you honestly think blatant lies help make your case?

PolitiFact

This seems to be a real problem for you.
 
2013-10-05 10:03:52 PM  

Atypical Person Reading Fark: After a little research, it seems very plausible that there were lots of rangers in the Point Reyes/GG area today.  The unpaid rangers volunteered to staff the road entrances and try to keep people out.

They are irritated, for some reason.


Volunteered, Voluntold. Same thing.

"So, you want a full time ranger job next year do ya? Well, we need to keep people out because my boss told me that we do. So I'd really appreciate it if you man a gate today for a job tomorrow. Totally up to you of course and I can't make you do it but I will remember who did and didn't do it...".

Not to different from one of my old boats COB who essentially said:

"Donate to a charity? We totally can't tell you to do that but if you don't want to get a good evaluation in the initiative category and perhaps a more critical review of you in the comments section then by all means don't give 20 bucks to the Navy Relief\UNICEF\My wives charity that she runs that feeds homeless orphans in a very wealthy part of Connecticut. Totally up to you.".
 
2013-10-05 10:05:28 PM  

Danger Avoid Death: InternetSecurityGuard: If they really wanted to piss a bunch of people off, shut down the civilian side of GPS or at least enable Selective Availability for 24 hours. Geocachers would be storming the palace gates in no time.

If they could find them.


Dammit
 
2013-10-05 10:06:01 PM  
[To-Too-Two.jpg]
 
2013-10-05 10:09:57 PM  

BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: The President and Senate have had no problem agreeing on a budget - the House is the holdout

Do you honestly think blatant lies help make your case?

PolitiFact

This seems to be a real problem for you.


FTA: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who decides which bills will be considered, told reporters on July 10, 2012, that no spending bills were likely to be approved this year because of an ongoing dispute with House Republicans over how much the federal government should spend.

The bills passed the House and Senate budget committees, but Reid realizes that there's no point in the Senate voting for something the House will never accept.  The Senate doesn't want to waste it's time debating and voting on a bill with no change of passing the House.  The House on the other hand, apparently has no problem trying to repeal the ACA 33 times despite knowing that it will never pass the Senate.  It's not inaction for inaction's sake, it's pragmatism.

That being said, I'd love to see a budget passed, but it should be the budget that Obama proposes, not some cut-down austerity fantasy out of the House.
 
2013-10-05 10:10:16 PM  

Radioactive Ass: Atypical Person Reading Fark: After a little research, it seems very plausible that there were lots of rangers in the Point Reyes/GG area today.  The unpaid rangers volunteered to staff the road entrances and try to keep people out.

They are irritated, for some reason.

Volunteered, Voluntold. Same thing.

"So, you want a full time ranger job next year do ya? Well, we need to keep people out because my boss told me that we do. So I'd really appreciate it if you man a gate today for a job tomorrow. Totally up to you of course and I can't make you do it but I will remember who did and didn't do it...".

Not too different from one of my old boats COB who essentially said:

"Donate to a charity? We totally can't tell you to do that but if you don't want to get a good evaluation in the initiative category and perhaps a more critical review of you in the comments section then by all means don't give 20 bucks to the Navy Relief\UNICEF\My wives charity that she runs that feeds homeless orphans in a very wealthy part of Connecticut. Totally up to you.".


Good points.  I agree, most of the rangers I know have been very worried about every performance report and all up in each other's asses about every little internal regulation and infraction.  Used to be a great job.  The sequester already cut down on the number of summer positions.

And there are a lot of fairly young, new hires in California, working at the low end of the ranger totem pole to begin with.

/too lazy to get the preposition off the end of that sentence
 
2013-10-05 10:11:52 PM  

Atypical Person Reading Fark: And there are a lot of fairly young, new hires in California, working at the low end of the ranger totem pole to begin with.

/too lazy to get the preposition off the end of that sentence


That is a heresy up with which I shall not put.
 
2013-10-05 10:20:11 PM  
Why the hate on the NPS? They're the most visible, immediate effect of the shutdown (slimdown for our less  informed brothers and sisters), but do you think they had a choice? Jon Jarvis, the director (maybe even all the way up to Secretary Jewell) was told to close. Period. Close the parks. Close everything. Don't worry about what Fox News says, close the parking lot. Don't worry that it might be spun into something bigger (while people should be looking at other, more important issues) close the pull offs. Blame congress, blame Obama, blame Harry Reid, blame whoever, but when your check is signed by someone else (as is the NPS's) when you're told to close, you close. Stupid, maybe, but are there those that really just don't get it?
 
2013-10-05 10:20:41 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If you're pissed off, direct your ire to the House Republicans, this is entirely on them.


Heh.

On another note, the coining of the term, "Barrycades" is pretty funny.
 
2013-10-05 10:21:14 PM  

Danger Avoid Death: Atypical Person Reading Fark: And there are a lot of fairly young, new hires in California, working at the low end of the ranger totem pole to begin with.

/too lazy to get the preposition off the end of that sentence

That is a heresy up with which I shall not put.


I knew there was a good reason you're a favorite of mine.  I'm going to send that out to some English teachers I know.
 
2013-10-05 10:25:46 PM  

EnderX: Mrbogey: By LAW they have to shut down anything that is open to the public. It says right there in the Declaration of Independence, ipso facto QED!

You better listen to him, he's pre-med.


There you go now, just leave everything to me.
 
2013-10-05 10:27:37 PM  
Lsherm:
Answer me this, chumpy mcfarkstick, if the NPS wasn't in the wrong, why did they remove the barricades?  I thought so.

While I would warn you of the danger of forcing a zealot to shed his misconceptions and see reality for the first time, there is really no danger of these particular zealots of ever seeing reality.  Republicans=evil, Obama=god.  Period, the end.
 
2013-10-05 10:28:05 PM  
I toured Mt. Vernon last summer, and they made a big deal that it was a private operation, there were a lot old newspapers chronicling the salvation of the estate.

The Feds closed a parking lot outside the estate, chickenshirted bastards.
 
2013-10-05 10:31:46 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: The President and Senate have had no problem agreeing on a budget - the House is the holdout

Do you honestly think blatant lies help make your case?

PolitiFact

This seems to be a real problem for you.

FTA: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who decides which bills will be considered, told reporters on July 10, 2012, that no spending bills were likely to be approved this year because of an ongoing dispute with House Republicans over how much the federal government should spend.

The bills passed the House and Senate budget committees, but Reid realizes that there's no point in the Senate voting for something the House will never accept.  The Senate doesn't want to waste it's time debating and voting on a bill with no change of passing the House.  The House on the other hand, apparently has no problem trying to repeal the ACA 33 times despite knowing that it will never pass the Senate.  It's not inaction for inaction's sake, it's pragmatism.

That being said, I'd love to see a budget passed, but it should be the budget that Obama proposes, not some cut-down austerity fantasy out of the House.


Again, ignoring the fact that the Senate refused to pass a budget quite literally, for years.
 
2013-10-05 10:36:44 PM  

GORDON: Lsherm:
Answer me this, chumpy mcfarkstick, if the NPS wasn't in the wrong, why did they remove the barricades?  I thought so.

While I would warn you of the danger of forcing a zealot to shed his misconceptions and see reality for the first time, there is really no danger of these particular zealots of ever seeing reality.  Republicans=evil, Obama=god.  Period, the end.


Please, cite a single source of any liberal person or organization making any genuine messianic claims about Obama.

Only republicans seem to think he's the second coming of Jesus, and they hate him for it, because they oppose everything Jesus stood for.
 
2013-10-05 10:41:29 PM  

Atypical Person Reading Fark: Danger Avoid Death: Atypical Person Reading Fark: And there are a lot of fairly young, new hires in California, working at the low end of the ranger totem pole to begin with.

/too lazy to get the preposition off the end of that sentence

That is a heresy up with which I shall not put.

I knew there was a good reason you're a favorite of mine.  I'm going to send that out to some English teachers I know.


Thanks. I can't take credit for that one, though. I've seen it used in several articles on archaic rules of grammar. Apparently the whole "don't end a sentence with a preposition" thing stems from 19th century teachers applying Latin grammar rules to the English language.

Your English teacher friends might also enjoy this link.
 
2013-10-05 10:44:06 PM  

BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: The President and Senate have had no problem agreeing on a budget - the House is the holdout

Do you honestly think blatant lies help make your case?

PolitiFact

This seems to be a real problem for you.

FTA: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., who decides which bills will be considered, told reporters on July 10, 2012, that no spending bills were likely to be approved this year because of an ongoing dispute with House Republicans over how much the federal government should spend.

The bills passed the House and Senate budget committees, but Reid realizes that there's no point in the Senate voting for something the House will never accept.  The Senate doesn't want to waste it's time debating and voting on a bill with no change of passing the House.  The House on the other hand, apparently has no problem trying to repeal the ACA 33 times despite knowing that it will never pass the Senate.  It's not inaction for inaction's sake, it's pragmatism.

That being said, I'd love to see a budget passed, but it should be the budget that Obama proposes, not some cut-down austerity fantasy out of the House.

Again, ignoring the fact that the Senate refused to pass a budget quite literally, for years.


The Senate would pass a budget in a heartbeat if they thought it would also pass the House.  There's no point in passing a budget that won't ever be accepted by the House Republicans, and the Senate certainly isn't going to kowtow to the House Republicans and pass the budget that they want.

The House seems willing to vote on silly measures that will never pass the Senate, while the Senate has enough sense not to bother bringing something to vote if the House won't consider it.
 
2013-10-05 10:49:02 PM  
New rule of thumb - put every single poster to the main tab on ignore.
 
2013-10-05 10:52:48 PM  
If it's privately owned and funded, there shouldn't be ANY govt employees "guarding" it to begin with.
 
2013-10-05 10:57:19 PM  

badhatharry: TuteTibiImperes: OgreMagi: Radioactive Ass: OgreMagi: Nope. Excluding military (which is notoriously low paid), you are going to make more working for the Feds than in the private sector, unless the job requires a PhD.

The social contract there is that you are paid less for a more stable job. Private sector jobs rely upon the economy (local and national) while government jobs usually perform services that are paid for out of taxes and thus are immune to a lot of that economic pressure.

Go back and read that chart again.  You get paid MORE working for the Feds.

Only after benefits are considered.  Federal jobs typically have lower salaries but better benefits packages.  If you want to compare salary vs salary, the private sector pays more most of the time.

Here is a good trivia question: 6 of the 10 wealthiest counties in the US are suburbs of what city?


Here's the question - are we distinguishing between federal contractors and employees of the federal government?
 
2013-10-05 10:57:25 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The Senate would pass a budget in a heartbeat if they thought it would also pass the House.


That has nothing to do with your claim that the House was the body not passing a budget when it was the Senate that refused to do so.

Remember this?

TuteTibiImperes: Next, the President writes the budget, and then sends it to the House and Senate for approval. Once the House and Senate agree on a budget, it becomes binding and can go to appropriations. The President and Senate have had no problem agreeing on a budget - the House is the holdout, and the one causing trouble, resulting in these repeated CRs.


If you can't make a point without lies, then stop posting.

dl.dropboxusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2013-10-05 10:58:01 PM  

Lost Thought 00: New rule of thumb - put every single poster to the main tab on ignore.


So.....you're going to ignore yourself.   Um.....have fun?
 
2013-10-05 11:01:44 PM  

Lsherm: cameroncrazy1984: Oh and here's the contingency plan. Nowhere does it state that there is a difference between NPS grounds. It states that ALL NPS property is to be shut down:

http://www.doi.gov/shutdown/fy2014/upload/NPS-contingency-plan.pdf

Mt. Vernon isn't NPS property.


Don't mind him, he's all in for basically anything Obama does.
 
2013-10-05 11:02:26 PM  

BullBearMS: TuteTibiImperes: The Senate would pass a budget in a heartbeat if they thought it would also pass the House.

That has nothing to do with your claim that the House was the body not passing a budget when it was the Senate that refused to do so.

Remember this?

TuteTibiImperes: Next, the President writes the budget, and then sends it to the House and Senate for approval. Once the House and Senate agree on a budget, it becomes binding and can go to appropriations. The President and Senate have had no problem agreeing on a budget - the House is the holdout, and the one causing trouble, resulting in these repeated CRs.

If you can't make a point without lies, then stop posting.

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 480x360]


Nothing I said was a lie.  The budget the Senate would agree to is essentially the same as the one Obama drafted.  The House is the sticking point.  You're arguing semantics instead of anything substantive.
 
2013-10-05 11:03:19 PM  
I'm finding it interesting that  the press and dems aren't getting a whole lot of traction out of their attempts to stir up outrage over the shutdown. They are both also finding that most citizens see through the govt's attempts to inflict as much needless pain on the populace as they can to exaggerate the effects of the shutdown and the citizens aren't buying it.

And while all this is happening Obamacare is being rolled out in a very unimpressive fashion.

This should all be a whole lot of fun to watch play out.

Should be interesting to see where this all goes.