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(Guardian)   15% of Americans live in poverty, which is why America needs more tax cuts for the wealthy   (theguardian.com) divider line 140
    More: Obvious, Americans, tax cuts, war on poverty, poverty  
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1040 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Oct 2013 at 3:23 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



140 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-05 10:58:37 AM  
Yes but how many have refrigerators?
 
2013-10-05 11:16:36 AM  
But all those tax cuts for the rich will trickle done to the poor any day now. Reagan said so....and I believe him because I love that movie "Bedtime for Bonzo"

Monkeys are adorbs!
 
2013-10-05 11:17:01 AM  

Dinki: Yes but how many have refrigerators?


And cell phones?
 
2013-10-05 11:36:24 AM  
Government taxes bad, corporate price gouging good

knbber2: Dinki: Yes but how many have refrigerators?

And cell phones?


Not counting Obamaphones?
 
2013-10-05 11:46:43 AM  
'Nearly 50 years after President Lyndon B Johnson launched the "war on poverty" program that ushered in social security, Medicare and Medicaid amongst others ...'

Perhaps it's because those tactics are fundamentally flawed. Oh, and a nice tip of the hat to LBJ's alterations to SS.

Typically though, the old saw goes, poverty and homelessness aren't a problem when Democrats are in charge. It's an old concern trolling that goes back decades. Homelessness stopped being a problem when Clinton was elected and started back up when W Bush won.
 
2013-10-05 12:01:45 PM  

Mrbogey: Typically though, the old saw goes, poverty and homelessness aren't a problem when Democrats are in charge. It's an old concern trolling that goes back decades. Homelessness stopped being a problem when Clinton was elected and started back up when W Bush won.


8 million people were lifted out of poverty under Clinton. 8.3 million fell back into poverty under W. Maybe poverty and homelessness are perceived as less of a problem because it becomes less of a problem when Democrats are in charge.
 
2013-10-05 12:17:01 PM  
What Republicans want poor people to be like:

gdb.voanews.com
 
2013-10-05 12:24:31 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: 8 million people were lifted out of poverty under Clinton. 8.3 million fell back into poverty under W. Maybe poverty and homelessness are perceived as less of a problem because it becomes less of a problem when Democrats are in charge.


blogs-images.forbes.com
 
2013-10-05 12:27:36 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Mrtroll: Typically though, the old saw goes, poverty and homelessness aren't a problem when Democrats are in charge. It's an old concern trolling that goes back decades. Homelessness stopped being a problem when Clinton was elected and started back up when W Bush won.

8 million people were lifted out of poverty under Clinton. 8.3 million fell back into poverty under W. Maybe poverty and homelessness are perceived as less of a problem because it becomes less of a problem when Democrats are in charge.


More to the point, Clinton actually went to work fixing the problem.  Whereas lowering the top tax bracket 3.6% and playing geopolitical hopscotch were more important to Bush.

I'm not gonna keep calling 911 once the medics arrive.
 
2013-10-05 12:29:49 PM  

Mrbogey: Dusk-You-n-Me: 8 million people were lifted out of poverty under Clinton. 8.3 million fell back into poverty under W. Maybe poverty and homelessness are perceived as less of a problem because it becomes less of a problem when Democrats are in charge.

[blogs-images.forbes.com image 678x460]


Okay, you're right.  If only the War on Poverty never got in the way, we'd have like -30% poverty.
 
2013-10-05 02:00:18 PM  
*sigh*

OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society. Imagine all of America with a population of only 10 people. OK? And in this 10-person America, just for the sake of argument, "middle class" is considered having an income of $4200 per year. Yes, I know, that's unrealistic. Like I said, simplified.

Now, this society, like ours, has a top 1 percent who are the wealthy job creators. So that's one person who in this society earns triple income...that's $15000. The next 6 under him -- numbers 2 through 7 -- they're middle class, so they earn $6000 each. And the bottom two, they're poor. They only earn $3000 each.

OK, got it?

Now, the poorest two people don't pay taxes, just like in real life. So they get to keep all $3000 of their dollars and spend it on whatever the want, prime rib or rims for their hoopdies or sneakers or whatever. The middle class, they get taxed at 25 percent. So they're not *actually* worth $6000 each...they're only worth $4500. Hmm...you see what just happened there? Taxes actually pushed them almost to the poverty line. That's another issue, though, we'll deal with that another time.

Now, the job creator. He's taxed at 40 percent, which means that his $15000 is really only $9000. That's $9000 he now has to put back into the economy, by creating new jobs, giving raising, donating to charity, etc. So, divide $9000 by the remaining 9 people, that's $1000 each. What's that mean?

It means that the middle class is back up to $5500 -- just over middle class -- and the poor are up to $4000. Still poor.

Now, what happens if you cut the job creator's taxes to, say 20 percent? Now he's worth $12000. That divided by 9? $1333. Add that to the poor's $3000, and what's happened?

That's right. Poverty has disappeared.

Think about what you say before you say it, subby. Hurtful snark gets you nowhere.
 
2013-10-05 02:51:02 PM  

Mrbogey: 'Nearly 50 years after President Lyndon B Johnson launched the "war on poverty" program that ushered in social security, Medicare and Medicaid amongst others ...'

Perhaps it's because those tactics are fundamentally flawed. Oh, and a nice tip of the hat to LBJ's alterations to SS.

Typically though, the old saw goes, poverty and homelessness aren't a problem when Democrats are in charge. It's an old concern trolling that goes back decades. Homelessness stopped being a problem when Clinton was elected and started back up when W Bush won.


Well, let's see here.  Right this minute, there's a linked article talking about how poverty's a problem.  And right this minute, a Democrat is in charge.  Therefore, poverty is a problem while a Democrat is in charge.  Huh, you're a liar, imagine that.
 
2013-10-05 03:00:37 PM  

timujin: Mrbogey: 'Nearly 50 years after President Lyndon B Johnson launched the "war on poverty" program that ushered in social security, Medicare and Medicaid amongst others ...'

Perhaps it's because those tactics are fundamentally flawed. Oh, and a nice tip of the hat to LBJ's alterations to SS.

Typically though, the old saw goes, poverty and homelessness aren't a problem when Democrats are in charge. It's an old concern trolling that goes back decades. Homelessness stopped being a problem when Clinton was elected and started back up when W Bush won.

Well, let's see here.  Right this minute, there's a linked article talking about how poverty's a problem.  And right this minute, a Democrat is in charge.  Therefore, poverty is a problem while a Democrat is in charge.  Huh, you're a liar, imagine that.


This is different. Obama is ineffectual and that is why poverty is so high. He'd rather raise taxes and enlarge the government and it's free programs than fix anything. He's working hard to hurt the poor. What a lazy lieberal.
 
2013-10-05 03:03:29 PM  
I thought Fox News pointed out that 99% of the "poor" in this country have refrigerators, therefore they're not really poor.  Are you telling me Fox News lied?!

*faints from the vapors*
 
2013-10-05 03:03:34 PM  

timujin: Well, let's see here. Right this minute, there's a linked article talking about how poverty's a problem. And right this minute, a Democrat is in charge. Therefore, poverty is a problem while a Democrat is in charge. Huh, you're a liar, imagine that.


First of all, the Guardian is criticizing the lack of coverage of poverty in the US media. Second of all, the Guardian isn't a US media outlet.

Should I use hand puppets so you can understand this better?
 
2013-10-05 03:18:35 PM  

Mrbogey: timujin: Well, let's see here. Right this minute, there's a linked article talking about how poverty's a problem. And right this minute, a Democrat is in charge. Therefore, poverty is a problem while a Democrat is in charge. Huh, you're a liar, imagine that.

First of all, the Guardian is criticizing the lack of coverage of poverty in the US media. Second of all, the Guardian isn't a US media outlet.

Should I use hand puppets so you can understand this better?


You do impress me with how quickly you move those goalposts.

Prior to this, no one was talking about poverty in America during Obama's term in office, not once in any U.S. news outlet was the topic broached.  Or, you're just full of shiat.

Yeah, I'm gonna go with the latter.
 
2013-10-05 03:26:21 PM  
Funny thing about welfare people.  First they appreciate the handouts, then they expect them, then they take them for granted, and finally, they resent them.  They hate the people who are literally putting food on their table, paying their rent and earning their welfare money.  It's not enough, it's never enough.

Never Enough
 
2013-10-05 03:31:03 PM  
Sure we have tons of poors in this country, but hey, poors in other countries have it much worse, so ours better not complain too loudly, cause the GOP is always looking for a reason to cut food assistance and unemployment insurance.
 
2013-10-05 03:31:15 PM  

Mrbogey: Dusk-You-n-Me: 8 million people were lifted out of poverty under Clinton. 8.3 million fell back into poverty under W. Maybe poverty and homelessness are perceived as less of a problem because it becomes less of a problem when Democrats are in charge.

[blogs-images.forbes.com image 678x460]


You are bad at inferring things from graphs and should not be allowed to brain unsupervised.
 
2013-10-05 03:31:56 PM  

Mrbogey: timujin: Well, let's see here. Right this minute, there's a linked article talking about how poverty's a problem. And right this minute, a Democrat is in charge. Therefore, poverty is a problem while a Democrat is in charge. Huh, you're a liar, imagine that.

First of all, the Guardian is criticizing the lack of coverage of poverty in the US media. Second of all, the Guardian isn't a US media outlet.

Should I use hand puppets so you can understand this better?


And there it is. Has anyone else noticed how over the past few weeks right wingers have become increasing defensive and belligerent? Desperation is never a good look guys.
 
2013-10-05 03:33:53 PM  

Il Douchey: Funny thing about welfare people.  First they appreciate the handouts, then they expect them, then they take them for granted, and finally, they resent them.  They hate the people who are literally putting food on their table, paying their rent and earning their welfare money.  It's not enough, it's never enough.

Never Enough


Seems legit.  We need to punish them more.  That way they wouldn't want to be poor anymore.
 
2013-10-05 03:34:37 PM  

knbber2: Dinki: Yes but how many have refrigerators?

And cell phones?


And flat screen tv sets.
 
2013-10-05 03:34:51 PM  

Il Douchey: Funny thing about welfare people.  First they appreciate the handouts, then they expect them, then they take them for granted, and finally, they resent them.  They hate the people who are literally putting food on their table, paying their rent and earning their welfare money.  It's not enough, it's never enough.

Never Enough


That has never been true, ever, and is dogmatic nonsense from lying assholes who want to steal more and more from people with less and less to steal. You know what creates systemic poverty? Wealth disparity.
 
2013-10-05 03:35:30 PM  

Il Douchey: Funny thing about welfare people.  First they appreciate the handouts, then they expect them, then they take them for granted, and finally, they resent them.  They hate the people who are literally putting food on their table, paying their rent and earning their welfare money.  It's not enough, it's never enough.

Never Enough


Yeah Liebruuls are the real racists. They wanna keep African and Latin Americans "on the plantation" is that how this one is gonna go?

Keep reachin'
 
2013-10-05 03:37:16 PM  
And yet we have a shortage of ditch diggers???
 
2013-10-05 03:37:48 PM  

Mrbogey: timujin: Well, let's see here. Right this minute, there's a linked article talking about how poverty's a problem. And right this minute, a Democrat is in charge. Therefore, poverty is a problem while a Democrat is in charge. Huh, you're a liar, imagine that.

First of all, the Guardian is criticizing the lack of coverage of poverty in the US media. Second of all, the Guardian isn't a US media outlet.

Should I use hand puppets so you can understand this better?


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/10/02/us/uninsured-americans -m ap.html?_r=0

http://inplainsight.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/20/20457620-all-you-ca n- do-is-pray-what-poverty-in-america-really-
looks-like?lite

http://www.thenation.com/article/176242/americas-shameful-poverty-st at s

Just pulled these from a quick google news search.

Among them are NY Times and The Nation. Ya' know, hard corps conservative outlets.

I think we can all mark you as a liar or just ignore you now. Bye.
 
2013-10-05 03:37:55 PM  

Il Douchey: Funny thing about welfare people.  First they appreciate the handouts, then they expect them, then they take them for granted, and finally, they resent them.  They hate the people who are literally putting food on their table, paying their rent and earning their welfare money.  It's not enough, it's never enough.

Never Enough


Funny how nobody ever tries to make the argument that taxing capital gains at a lower rate than income breeds dependency...
 
2013-10-05 03:39:44 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: What Republicans want poor people to be like:

[gdb.voanews.com image 850x566]


Why have they not sold that ball?  Why are they wasting their day not looking for a job?  Look at that kid's arm; he's kinda ripped.  He obviously has way too much to eat if he's able to maintain that much muscle mass.

Infernalist: Sure we have tons of poors in this country, but hey, poors in other countries have it much worse, so ours better not complain too loudly, cause the GOP is always looking for a reason to cut food assistance and unemployment insurance.


I always love that.
"Murikan exceptionalism!  We're the greatest nation on earf!!!"
"Well, we've still got a lot of hungry people, homeless veterans, people that can't read.  Let's keep working to reduce that."
"They've got it worse in other countries!  Therefore, Murika!!!"
"Here's this video of a cop pepper-spraying a bunch of kids sitting there, protesting peacefully.  That's not what we're about."
"Those goddamn liberal kids are lucky they live in Murika!  If this was some other country they would've been mowed down with a farking AK!! Murika!!!"
"Umm, either we're a great nation, and a shining example for the rest of the world, or we're happy with being 'not the worst,' but we can't have them both.  Which is it, Mr. Teabagger?"
"Shut up, you liberal hippie leftist!  I luv muh country! Murika!""
 
2013-10-05 03:41:20 PM  

Pocket Ninja: OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society that simply doesn't exist in any reality.


FTFA

/yea yea don't feed the troll
 
2013-10-05 03:41:46 PM  

gingerjet: Pocket Ninja: OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society that simply doesn't exist in any reality.

FTFA

/yea yea don't feed the troll


....lol oh wow
 
2013-10-05 03:42:44 PM  

Pocket Ninja: *sigh*

OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society. Imagine all of America with a population of only 10 people. OK? And in this 10-person America, just for the sake of argument, "middle class" is considered having an income of $4200 per year. Yes, I know, that's unrealistic. Like I said, simplified.

Now, this society, like ours, has a top 1 percent who are the wealthy job creators. So that's one person who in this society earns triple income...that's $15000. The next 6 under him -- numbers 2 through 7 -- they're middle class, so they earn $6000 each. And the bottom two, they're poor. They only earn $3000 each.

OK, got it?

Now, the poorest two people don't pay taxes, just like in real life. So they get to keep all $3000 of their dollars and spend it on whatever the want, prime rib or rims for their hoopdies or sneakers or whatever. The middle class, they get taxed at 25 percent. So they're not *actually* worth $6000 each...they're only worth $4500. Hmm...you see what just happened there? Taxes actually pushed them almost to the poverty line. That's another issue, though, we'll deal with that another time.

Now, the job creator. He's taxed at 40 percent, which means that his $15000 is really only $9000. That's $9000 he now has to put back into the economy, by creating new jobs, giving raising, donating to charity, etc. So, divide $9000 by the remaining 9 people, that's $1000 each. What's that mean?

It means that the middle class is back up to $5500 -- just over middle class -- and the poor are up to $4000. Still poor.

Now, what happens if you cut the job creator's taxes to, say 20 percent? Now he's worth $12000. That divided by 9? $1333. Add that to the poor's $3000, and what's happened?

That's right. Poverty has disappeared.

Think about what you say before you say it, subby. Hurtful snark gets you nowhere.


F*CKING GENIUS
 
2013-10-05 03:44:21 PM  
But corporate welfare, that's just American and entitled. I'm very happy with my station in life, I'm quite comfortable but that doesn't mean that I can't recognize that the 1% aren't knowingly and gleefully farking over the poor and then acting victimized because they have to pay into the welfare system.
 
2013-10-05 03:46:34 PM  
Trickle on economics has failed so hard and so consistently for 30 years, and conservatives just keep flagellating themselves with it.  Seriously at this point what more can we do for the rich job creators before this somehow magically works?  Let them shoot poor people for sport?
 
2013-10-05 03:49:23 PM  

Il Douchey: Funny thing about welfare people.  First they appreciate the handouts, then they expect them, then they take them for granted, and finally, they resent them.  They hate the people who are literally putting food on their table, paying their rent and earning their welfare money.  It's not enough, it's never enough.

Never Enough


Well, sure. There they are, relying on welfare and food stamps, and do you see anyone helping them?

craigtnelson.jpg
 
2013-10-05 03:49:36 PM  
What 15% of the rich should we start cutting off?

Oh...TAX cuts...
 
2013-10-05 03:49:37 PM  
Well, the losers already pay 0%, so how would you cut their taxes? Reduce the tax rate to -40%?
 
2013-10-05 03:54:15 PM  

Infernalist: Sure we have tons of poors in this country, but hey, poors in other countries have it much worse, so ours better not complain too loudly, cause the GOP is always looking for a reason to cut food assistance and unemployment insurance.


Worse yet, the louder people complain, the more likely it becomes that a lot of white rural social conservatives will look up and find out which side of the poverty line they- and most everyone they know- have really been sitting on for all these years.  Can't have that.
 
2013-10-05 03:59:06 PM  

SevenizGud: how would you cut their taxes? Reduce the tax rate to -40%?


That would be a negative income tax. Some believe it a good idea.
 
2013-10-05 04:00:30 PM  
More like the 1% has overextended itself hogging all the resources and capital in the past 50 years alone that they NEED tax cuts to continue the illusion of their wasteful flamboyant lives, both in business and privately.
 
2013-10-05 04:04:46 PM  

Pocket Ninja: *sigh*

OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society. Imagine all of America with a population of only 10 people. OK? And in this 10-person America, just for the sake of argument, "middle class" is considered having an income of $4200 per year. Yes, I know, that's unrealistic. Like I said, simplified.

Now, this society, like ours, has a top 1 percent who are the wealthy job creators. So that's one person who in this society earns triple income...that's $15000. The next 6 under him -- numbers 2 through 7 -- they're middle class, so they earn $6000 each. And the bottom two, they're poor. They only earn $3000 each.

OK, got it?

Now, the poorest two people don't pay taxes, just like in real life. So they get to keep all $3000 of their dollars and spend it on whatever the want, prime rib or rims for their hoopdies or sneakers or whatever. The middle class, they get taxed at 25 percent. So they're not *actually* worth $6000 each...they're only worth $4500. Hmm...you see what just happened there? Taxes actually pushed them almost to the poverty line. That's another issue, though, we'll deal with that another time.

Now, the job creator. He's taxed at 40 percent, which means that his $15000 is really only $9000. That's $9000 he now has to put back into the economy, by creating new jobs, giving raising, donating to charity, etc. So, divide $9000 by the remaining 9 people, that's $1000 each. What's that mean?

It means that the middle class is back up to $5500 -- just over middle class -- and the poor are up to $4000. Still poor.

Now, what happens if you cut the job creator's taxes to, say 20 percent? Now he's worth $12000. That divided by 9? $1333. Add that to the poor's $3000, and what's happened?

That's right. Poverty has disappeared.

Think about what you say before you say it, subby. Hurtful snark gets you nowhere.




I... I love you
 
2013-10-05 04:05:47 PM  

Pocket Ninja: *sigh*

OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society. Imagine all of America with a population of only 10 people. OK? And in this 10-person America, just for the sake of argument, "middle class" is considered having an income of $4200 per year. Yes, I know, that's unrealistic. Like I said, simplified.

Now, this society, like ours, has a top 1 percent who are the wealthy job creators. So that's one person who in this society earns triple income...that's $15000. The next 6 under him -- numbers 2 through 7 -- they're middle class, so they earn $6000 each. And the bottom two, they're poor. They only earn $3000 each.

OK, got it?

Now, the poorest two people don't pay taxes, just like in real life. So they get to keep all $3000 of their dollars and spend it on whatever the want, prime rib or rims for their hoopdies or sneakers or whatever. The middle class, they get taxed at 25 percent. So they're not *actually* worth $6000 each...they're only worth $4500. Hmm...you see what just happened there? Taxes actually pushed them almost to the poverty line. That's another issue, though, we'll deal with that another time.

Now, the job creator. He's taxed at 40 percent, which means that his $15000 is really only $9000. That's $9000 he now has to put back into the economy, by creating new jobs, giving raising, donating to charity, etc. So, divide $9000 by the remaining 9 people, that's $1000 each. What's that mean?

It means that the middle class is back up to $5500 -- just over middle class -- and the poor are up to $4000. Still poor.

Now, what happens if you cut the job creator's taxes to, say 20 percent? Now he's worth $12000. That divided by 9? $1333. Add that to the poor's $3000, and what's happened?

That's right. Poverty has disappeared.

Think about what you say before you say it, subby. Hurtful snark gets you nowhere.


You, sir, are a national treasure. Luckily for us you are one of the essentials, and your tenure will continue regardless of how long the shutdown lasts.
 
2013-10-05 04:06:12 PM  
Pretty soon the hyper-rich will suck the rest of us dry. What happens then?
 
2013-10-05 04:06:30 PM  
Is it just me, or does the graph posted above actually making the opposite point of its poster? It looks to me that after LBJ was out of office(who was in charge next, hmmm) it trends upward followed by slight decline under the leadership of history's former greatest monster, then back up under the greatest hero America has ever known then back down under Clinton, back up under Bush2.

Maybe it's just me.
 
2013-10-05 04:07:11 PM  

SevenizGud: Well, the losers already pay 0%, so how would you cut their taxes? Reduce the tax rate to -40%?


The poor don't have to pay sales tax on anything? I wish I was poor! They get off easy compared to those over burdened rich people who have to pay 11% income tax. Plus the fees that go to parking their capital gains overseas but that goes to the lawyers, not the government.
 
2013-10-05 04:08:54 PM  

fusillade762: Pretty soon the hyper-rich will suck the rest of us dry. What happens then?


Well, unfortunately for them they've spent 40 years distracting a large portion of the plebes with "they're gonna take yur gunz! Better buy more gunz!"
 
2013-10-05 04:10:37 PM  
AKA: middle class in most of the developing world.
 
2013-10-05 04:11:34 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Pocket Ninja: *sigh*

OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society. Imagine all of America with a population of only 10 people. OK? And in this 10-person America, just for the sake of argument, "middle class" is considered having an income of $4200 per year. Yes, I know, that's unrealistic. Like I said, simplified.

Now, this society, like ours, has a top 1 percent who are the wealthy job creators. So that's one person who in this society earns triple income...that's $15000. The next 6 under him -- numbers 2 through 7 -- they're middle class, so they earn $6000 each. And the bottom two, they're poor. They only earn $3000 each.

OK, got it?

Now, the poorest two people don't pay taxes, just like in real life. So they get to keep all $3000 of their dollars and spend it on whatever the want, prime rib or rims for their hoopdies or sneakers or whatever. The middle class, they get taxed at 25 percent. So they're not *actually* worth $6000 each...they're only worth $4500. Hmm...you see what just happened there? Taxes actually pushed them almost to the poverty line. That's another issue, though, we'll deal with that another time.

Now, the job creator. He's taxed at 40 percent, which means that his $15000 is really only $9000. That's $9000 he now has to put back into the economy, by creating new jobs, giving raising, donating to charity, etc. So, divide $9000 by the remaining 9 people, that's $1000 each. What's that mean?

It means that the middle class is back up to $5500 -- just over middle class -- and the poor are up to $4000. Still poor.

Now, what happens if you cut the job creator's taxes to, say 20 percent? Now he's worth $12000. That divided by 9? $1333. Add that to the poor's $3000, and what's happened?

That's right. Poverty has disappeared.

Think about what you say before you say it, subby. Hurtful snark gets you nowhere.

F*CKING GENIUS


Ehhh, he accurately re-created the incredible amounts of herp and derp found on the right, but none of the humor regularly expected from PN.  There are plenty of lesser posters to get regular non-funny trolling from.  Disappointing.  8/10 on the normal troll scale, but only 2 or 3/10 on the PN scale.
 
2013-10-05 04:13:06 PM  
Pocket Ninja is gonna have to create a new account with all the fanboys giving him away in every thread now.
 
2013-10-05 04:14:28 PM  

Dinki: Yes but how many have refrigerators?


Yeah, the Guardian is basically arguing here that the issue of Americans living in poverty is either under-represented or not represented at all in American media when in fact there is one "news" channel that can reliably be called upon to misrepresent the issue on a regular basis.

Which seems only fitting for a media concern that carriers water for the one political party that actively disdains the working poor and the out and out impoverished.

Pocket Ninja: *sigh*

[awesomeness redacted for brevity's sake]

Think about what you say before you say it, subby. Hurtful snark gets you nowhere.


You. You I like.
 
2013-10-05 04:14:53 PM  

super_grass: AKA: middle class in most of the developing world.


'MURIKAH! WE'RE STILL BETTER THAN THE DEVELOPING WORLD!!!
 
2013-10-05 04:16:41 PM  

the_vegetarian_cannibal: super_grass: AKA: middle class in most of the developing world.

'MURIKAH! WE'RE STILL BETTER THAN THE DEVELOPING WORLD!!!


A paraphrasing of "don't like it? go to somalia."
 
2013-10-05 04:17:11 PM  
 
2013-10-05 04:24:12 PM  

CanuckInCA: Pocket Ninja is gonna have to create a new account with all the fanboys giving him away in every thread now.


Welcome to 5 years ago. His popularity is more marked, though.
 
2013-10-05 04:26:42 PM  

Il Douchey: Funny thing about welfare people.  First they appreciate the handouts, then they expect them, then they take them for granted, and finally, they resent them.  They hate the people who are literally putting food on their table, paying their rent and earning their welfare money.  It's not enough, it's never enough.

Never Enough


Have you ever convinced anyone to change their point of view in the entire history of your time here on fark?

Legitimate question.

Have you? Ever?
 
2013-10-05 04:29:39 PM  
thought I'd be quick and crafty with refrigerators; boy was I wrong.
 
2013-10-05 04:30:33 PM  

ultraholland: thought I'd be quick and crafty with refrigerators; boy was I wrong.


They have flat-screen TVs too.
 
2013-10-05 04:33:02 PM  

whidbey: CanuckInCA: Pocket Ninja is gonna have to create a new account with all the fanboys giving him away in every thread now.

Welcome to 5 years ago. His popularity is more marked, though.


Don't pretend you know what it's like to have a massively successful troll account become a national treasure and stop being effective.... Oh wait.

\i miss you and your alt
 
2013-10-05 04:35:25 PM  

adamgreeney: whidbey: CanuckInCA: Pocket Ninja is gonna have to create a new account with all the fanboys giving him away in every thread now.

Welcome to 5 years ago. His popularity is more marked, though.

Don't pretend you know what it's like to have a massively successful troll account become a national treasure and stop being effective.... Oh wait.

\i miss you and your alt


Well I wasn't expressing jealousy or anything like some examples in this thread. That said, he is kind of tame for my tastes. Besides, now the libertarians (small 'l') are a lot more fun to pick on, and I don't need an alt to do it. ;-p
 
2013-10-05 04:36:29 PM  

Heliovdrake: Il Douchey: Funny thing about welfare people.  First they appreciate the handouts, then they expect them, then they take them for granted, and finally, they resent them.  They hate the people who are literally putting food on their table, paying their rent and earning their welfare money.  It's not enough, it's never enough.

Never Enough

Have you ever convinced anyone to change their point of view in the entire history of your time here on fark?

Legitimate question.

Have you? Ever?


Changing you point of view because of politics tab comments say more about you than the person posting.

This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.
 
2013-10-05 04:43:27 PM  

gingerjet: Pocket Ninja: OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society that simply doesn't exist in any reality.

FTFA

/yea yea don't feed the troll


Ninja's not a conventional troll; he's more like the troll version of a poet laureate around here.
 
2013-10-05 04:45:02 PM  

super_grass: Heliovdrake: Il Douchey: Funny thing about welfare people.  First they appreciate the handouts, then they expect them, then they take them for granted, and finally, they resent them.  They hate the people who are literally putting food on their table, paying their rent and earning their welfare money.  It's not enough, it's never enough.

Never Enough

Have you ever convinced anyone to change their point of view in the entire history of your time here on fark?

Legitimate question.

Have you? Ever?

Changing you point of view because of politics tab comments say more about you than the person posting.

This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.


and you supergrass excel at trolling. I've seen your work.

You're not one of the greats yet, but you could be with time.
 
2013-10-05 04:47:30 PM  

super_grass: This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.


Actually, more often than not the FPT is a place where more often than not I can say with certainty that conservatives are spiteful hateful usually ignorant (not to mention socially outdated) people. Sorry if that makes you mad or something.
 
2013-10-05 04:49:16 PM  
Why don't we lower the poverty line, thus lowering the number of poor folks?
Or better yet, eliminate it altogether, thus making everyone middle class?
 
2013-10-05 04:51:41 PM  

whidbey: super_grass: This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.

Actually, more often than not the FPT is a place where more often than not I can say with certainty that conservatives are spiteful hateful usually ignorant (not to mention socially outdated) people. Sorry if that makes you mad or something.


I've see documentaries about it before:

2-ps.googleusercontent.com

/ the GOP conspiracy is why I'm not a winner!
 
2013-10-05 04:52:12 PM  

super_grass: I've see documentaries about it before:


That looks totally gay.
 
2013-10-05 04:53:58 PM  

whidbey: super_grass: I've see documentaries about it before:

That looks totally gay.


I wouldn't expect anything else.
 
2013-10-05 04:54:34 PM  

Dinki: Yes but how many have refrigerators?


It's worse than that - it means they also have electricity and food, and suggests (but doesn't prove) that they live indoors.

Damn these people are selfish. They should sign their meager possessions over to the 1% and then die of poor health. And if they could somehow manage to die out at sea, that will save a lot of trouble, too.
 
2013-10-05 04:56:28 PM  

super_grass: whidbey: super_grass: I've see documentaries about it before:

That looks totally gay.

I wouldn't expect anything else.


Yeah but I'm saying you might want to tell your muckraking buddies that they might want to at least change the colors or something, it definitely gives a wrong impression and definitely doesn't look American.
 
2013-10-05 04:59:00 PM  

whidbey: super_grass: whidbey: super_grass: I've see documentaries about it before:

That looks totally gay.

I wouldn't expect anything else.

Yeah but I'm saying you might want to tell your muckraking buddies that they might want to at least change the colors or something, it definitely gives a wrong impression and definitely doesn't look American.


...

It's satire. I'll leave the whodunnit as an exercise to the reader.
 
2013-10-05 05:03:09 PM  

whidbey: super_grass: This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.

Actually, more often than not the FPT is a place where more often than not I can say with certainty that conservatives are spiteful hateful usually ignorant (not to mention socially outdated) people. Sorry if that makes you mad or something.


To be fair, liberals on the Fark are more likely than not to be spiteful, hateful, and ignorant.  Ninety percent of the posters on any large internet message board will usually be spiteful, hateful, and ignorant.  That's the type of person who is usually attracted to these things and Greater Internet farkwad Theory doesn't exactly help.
 
2013-10-05 05:03:46 PM  

llortcM_yllort: whidbey: super_grass: This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.

Actually, more often than not the FPT is a place where more often than not I can say with certainty that conservatives are spiteful hateful usually ignorant (not to mention socially outdated) people. Sorry if that makes you mad or something.

To be fair, liberals on the Fark are more likely than not to be spiteful, hateful, and ignorant.  Ninety percent of the posters on any large internet message board will usually be spiteful, hateful, and ignorant.  That's the type of person who is usually attracted to these things and Greater Internet farkwad Theory doesn't exactly help.


FTFM
 
2013-10-05 05:04:50 PM  
FTFA: About 15% of Americans live in poverty, so why is no one talking about it?
Mainstream media give very little coverage to poverty and the working class. It's a public interest failure


Not to blame the victim here, but it might be because the American poor have no sense of class consciousness.  If you can afford three square meals a day, you're "middle-class" by American parlance.
 
2013-10-05 05:08:50 PM  

llortcM_yllort: whidbey: super_grass: This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.

Actually, more often than not the FPT is a place where more often than not I can say with certainty that conservatives are spiteful hateful usually ignorant (not to mention socially outdated) people. Sorry if that makes you mad or something.

To be fair, liberals on Fark are more likely than not to be spiteful, hateful, and ignorant.


Bullshiat. And if our tone comes off as more than a bit uncivil, it's because we're sick of the footdragging conservative mindset being the constantly unchallengeable paradigm in our society.

You just want to defend backward thinking, and project it onto enlightened people. Yeah I went there.
 
2013-10-05 05:10:29 PM  

SixPaperJoint: Just pulled these from a quick google news search.

Among them are NY Times and The Nation. Ya' know, hard corps conservative outlets.

I think we can all mark you as a liar or just ignore you now. Bye.


You don't really understand the argument, do you?

soze: You are bad at inferring things from graphs and should not be allowed to brain unsupervised.


From that graph, what do you take away from it?
 
2013-10-05 05:18:42 PM  

whidbey: it's because we're sick of the footdragging conservative mindset being the constantly unchallengeable paradigm in our society.


Immediate response: No one challenges the conservative paradigm on fark. Nobody

Alternate response: "Conservatives are unpopular! We outnumber them! People favor us! Except when it's convenient for the sake of argument."
 
2013-10-05 05:22:00 PM  

Mrbogey: whidbey: it's because we're sick of the footdragging conservative mindset being the constantly unchallengeable paradigm in our society.

Immediate response: No one challenges the conservative paradigm on fark. Nobody

Alternate response: "Conservatives are unpopular! We outnumber them! People favor us! Except when it's convenient for the sake of argument."


Did Michelle Bachman tell you that?
 
2013-10-05 05:24:13 PM  

whidbey: llortcM_yllort: whidbey: super_grass: This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.

Actually, more often than not the FPT is a place where more often than not I can say with certainty that conservatives are spiteful hateful usually ignorant (not to mention socially outdated) people. Sorry if that makes you mad or something.

To be fair, liberals on Fark are more likely than not to be spiteful, hateful, and ignorant.

Bullshiat. And if our tone comes off as more than a bit uncivil, it's because we're sick of the footdragging conservative mindset being the constantly unchallengeable paradigm in our society.

You just want to defend backward thinking, and project it onto enlightened people. Yeah I went there.


Let me say this as one spiteful, hateful, and ignorant liberal to another.  People who talk about violent revolution or  compare their political opponents to Nazis are dumbasses.  Many people on this site REGULARLY make claims like this.  It's one thing to be defensive about your beliefs or to try to call other people out when they're being douches.  It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.  Just because the other side is worse doesn't give you an excuse to act like morons or assholes.
 
2013-10-05 05:25:04 PM  

whidbey: Mrbogey: whidbey: it's because we're sick of the footdragging conservative mindset being the constantly unchallengeable paradigm in our society.

Immediate response: No one challenges the conservative paradigm on fark. Nobody

Alternate response: "Conservatives are unpopular! We outnumber them! People favor us! Except when it's convenient for the sake of argument."

Did Michelle Bachman tell you that?


-1 for ad hom instead of satire.
-1 for outdated reference

Swing and a miss.
 
2013-10-05 05:26:53 PM  

llortcM_yllort: whidbey: llortcM_yllort: whidbey: super_grass: This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.

Actually, more often than not the FPT is a place where more often than not I can say with certainty that conservatives are spiteful hateful usually ignorant (not to mention socially outdated) people. Sorry if that makes you mad or something.

To be fair, liberals on Fark are more likely than not to be spiteful, hateful, and ignorant.

Bullshiat. And if our tone comes off as more than a bit uncivil, it's because we're sick of the footdragging conservative mindset being the constantly unchallengeable paradigm in our society.

You just want to defend backward thinking, and project it onto enlightened people. Yeah I went there.

Let me say this as one spiteful, hateful, and ignorant liberal to another.  People who talk about violent revolution or  compare their political opponents to Nazis are dumbasses.  Many people on this site REGULARLY make claims like this.  It's one thing to be defensive about your beliefs or to try to call other people out when they're being douches.  It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.  Just because the other side is worse doesn't give you an excuse to act like morons or assholes.


I'm hardly ignorant, and hating backward social behavior is hardly spiteful.

Nice strawman, though. Kind of doubt you're liberal, too. Now run along.
 
2013-10-05 05:26:54 PM  

Mrbogey: SixPaperJoint: Just pulled these from a quick google news search.

Among them are NY Times and The Nation. Ya' know, hard corps conservative outlets.

I think we can all mark you as a liar or just ignore you now. Bye.

You don't really understand the argument, do you?

soze: You are bad at inferring things from graphs and should not be allowed to brain unsupervised.

From that graph, what do you take away from it?


The War On Poverty has maintained poverty below 15% since implementation, a marked sustained decrease from previous historical poverty levels, even accounting for the many booms and busts we have experienced since implementation.   Impressively consistent.

Additionally, the chart is curiously cropped to cut off anything from before the post-War boom.  Interesting, no?  Is that stupidity or malfeasance?  We could determine that if you would cite your sources.  Since you won't, I'll do it for you:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/09/13/dramatic-increase-in- po verty-rate-one-small-step-for-obama-one-giant-step-for-the-so-called-w ar-on-poverty/

Well, that's neat.  An article in Forbes by a Cato Institute employee.  I wonder what it looks like before 1950?  WELL GEE I'D LOVE TO LOOK THAT UP BUT THOSE REPUBLICAN farkTARDS SHUT DOWN THE DAMN GOVERNMENT SO THE CENSUS DB IS DOWN.
 
2013-10-05 05:28:01 PM  
super_grass:
-1 for ad hom instead of satire.
-1 for outdated reference

Swing and a miss.


Who died and made you Gilligan of the Island?
 
2013-10-05 05:30:36 PM  
whidbey:
I'm hardly ignorant, and hating backward social behavior is hardly spiteful.

Nice strawman, though. Kind of doubt you're liberal, too. Now run along.


Not a strawman at all.  Do you doubt that there are people on this site who compare the right to fascists?  Would you like me to find some examples for you?

I'm curious though.  What would someone on the left have to say before you consider it hateful and spiteful?
 
2013-10-05 05:33:11 PM  

llortcM_yllort: whidbey:
I'm hardly ignorant, and hating backward social behavior is hardly spiteful.

Nice strawman, though. Kind of doubt you're liberal, too. Now run along.

Not a strawman at all.  Do you doubt that there are people on this site who compare the right to fascists?  Would you like me to find some examples for you?


You couldn't really. You just to believe it's the case.

I'm curious though.  What would someone on the left have to say before you consider it hateful and spiteful?

Who cares? We should both be in agreement that there's a huge economic gap where the poor get farked and rich make out like bandits every year. You seem to want to make people who are outraged by this into the same kind of ignorant assholes who support it.
 
2013-10-05 05:35:45 PM  

whidbey: llortcM_yllort: whidbey:
I'm hardly ignorant, and hating backward social behavior is hardly spiteful.

Nice strawman, though. Kind of doubt you're liberal, too. Now run along.

Not a strawman at all.  Do you doubt that there are people on this site who compare the right to fascists?  Would you like me to find some examples for you?

You couldn't really. You just to believe it's the case.

I'm curious though.  What would someone on the left have to say before you consider it hateful and spiteful?

Who cares? We should both be in agreement that there's a huge economic gap where the poor get farked and rich make out like bandits every year. You seem to want to make people who are outraged by this into the same kind of ignorant assholes who support it.


I do agree.  There is a huge gap and something needs to be done about it.  However, my complaint was with what you originally said; that conservatives on this site are hateful and ignorant while liberals are little angels.  Everyone is a dick.  That's what Fark is and always has been.
 
2013-10-05 05:36:29 PM  

llortcM_yllort: It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.


Well, "evil" has unnecessary religious and supernatural connotations.  "Well worthy of a good beating and political disenfranchisement" is more like it.
 
2013-10-05 05:38:17 PM  

llortcM_yllort: Everyone is a dick.


So both sides are . . . bad?
 
2013-10-05 05:38:46 PM  

The Name: llortcM_yllort: It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.

Well, "evil" has unnecessary religious and supernatural connotations.  "Well worthy of a good beating and political disenfranchisement" is more like it.


Political disenfranchisement can mean many things.  What do you mean by political disenfranchisement in this instance?
 
2013-10-05 05:40:01 PM  

The Name: llortcM_yllort: Everyone is a dick.

So both sides are . . . bad?


Only on Fark and Reddit.
 
2013-10-05 05:43:11 PM  

llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.

Well, "evil" has unnecessary religious and supernatural connotations.  "Well worthy of a good beating and political disenfranchisement" is more like it.

Political disenfranchisement can mean many things.  What do you mean by political disenfranchisement in this instance?


I don't have anything specific in mind, but imagine current voter suppression efforts in red states, except in reverse.
 
2013-10-05 05:43:57 PM  
Of course, subby--the answer is always more tax cuts.
 
2013-10-05 05:46:58 PM  

The Name: llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.

Well, "evil" has unnecessary religious and supernatural connotations.  "Well worthy of a good beating and political disenfranchisement" is more like it.

Political disenfranchisement can mean many things.  What do you mean by political disenfranchisement in this instance?

I don't have anything specific in mind, but imagine current voter suppression efforts in red states, except in reverse.


Really?  You'd use the same anti-democratic tactics to silence your opponents that your opponents themselves are doing?  Doesn't that make you a hypocrite and just as bad as them?
 
2013-10-05 05:48:28 PM  

llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.

Well, "evil" has unnecessary religious and supernatural connotations.  "Well worthy of a good beating and political disenfranchisement" is more like it.

Political disenfranchisement can mean many things.  What do you mean by political disenfranchisement in this instance?

I don't have anything specific in mind, but imagine current voter suppression efforts in red states, except in reverse.

Really?  You'd use the same anti-democratic tactics to silence your opponents that your opponents themselves are doing?  Doesn't that make you a hypocrite and just as bad as them?


So vote republican.
 
2013-10-05 05:49:28 PM  

llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.

Well, "evil" has unnecessary religious and supernatural connotations.  "Well worthy of a good beating and political disenfranchisement" is more like it.

Political disenfranchisement can mean many things.  What do you mean by political disenfranchisement in this instance?

I don't have anything specific in mind, but imagine current voter suppression efforts in red states, except in reverse.

Really?  You'd use the same anti-democratic tactics to silence your opponents that your opponents themselves are doing?  Doesn't that make you a hypocrite and just as bad as them?


You reap what you sow, man.  You reap what you sow.
 
2013-10-05 06:04:56 PM  
The poor just need to work harder. Because you see, Arbeit Macht Frei.
 
2013-10-05 06:20:01 PM  

The Name: llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.

Well, "evil" has unnecessary religious and supernatural connotations.  "Well worthy of a good beating and political disenfranchisement" is more like it.

Political disenfranchisement can mean many things.  What do you mean by political disenfranchisement in this instance?

I don't have anything specific in mind, but imagine current voter suppression efforts in red states, except in reverse.

Really?  You'd use the same anti-democratic tactics to silence your opponents that your opponents themselves are doing?  Doesn't that make you a hypocrite and just as bad as them?

You reap what you sow, man.  You reap what you sow.


An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.  So vote Green.
 
2013-10-05 06:20:49 PM  
15% live in poverty.

and the other 83% are there to send all their GDP to the richest 2% who own America and its Government.

the Rich live off the Poor
and the Poor live off their labor.

ain't Freedom/Democracy great!
 
2013-10-05 06:24:14 PM  

Mrbogey: Dusk-You-n-Me: 8 million people were lifted out of poverty under Clinton. 8.3 million fell back into poverty under W. Maybe poverty and homelessness are perceived as less of a problem because it becomes less of a problem when Democrats are in charge.

[blogs-images.forbes.com image 678x460]


the Poverty rate was falling until the 1980's when ronnie raygun began looking the other way while companies began offshoring american jobs for cheap labor and when ronnie/congress began cutting taxes for the rich/big businesses.  the slow slide downward and  the shrinking middle class/growning poor class began in the 80's.

ain't Freedom great!
 
2013-10-05 06:25:33 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: What Republicans want poor people to be like:

[gdb.voanews.com image 850x566]



More for them
less for everyone else.

and the so called 'free enterprise market' in America is all but gone.  its a controlled market now.
 
2013-10-05 06:41:32 PM  

soze: The War On Poverty has maintained poverty below 15% since implementation, a marked sustained decrease from previous historical poverty levels, even accounting for the many booms and busts we have experienced since implementation. Impressively consistent.

Additionally, the chart is curiously cropped to cut off anything from before the post-War boom. Interesting, no? Is that stupidity or malfeasance? We could determine that if you would cite your sources. Since you won't, I'll do it for you:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/09/13/dramatic-increase-in- po verty-rate-one-small-step-for-obama-one-giant-step-for-the-so-called-w ar-on-poverty/

Well, that's neat. An article in Forbes by a Cato Institute employee. I wonder what it looks like before 1950? WELL GEE I'D LOVE TO LOOK THAT UP BUT THOSE REPUBLICAN farkTARDS SHUT DOWN THE DAMN GOVERNMENT SO THE CENSUS DB IS DOWN.


Since WW2, we haven't had a major war effort that refocused the entire economy or a major depression. We can't know what the poverty rate would have looked like without the programs but typically war and depression drive it up. So I really don't think it staying around the same relatively low point is all that significant of an achievement especially since the rate was falling before it.

We've spent an incredible amount that dwarfs the collective wealth of most of the rest of the world and we still have poverty. Perhaps we need to define poverty more along the lines of standard of living and not a differential basis. To live at 1965 levels of poverty you'd need to make very little money.
 
2013-10-05 07:07:00 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Now, this society, like ours, has a top 1 percent who are the wealthy job creators. So that's one person who in this society earns triple income...that's $15000. The next 6 under him -- numbers 2 through 7 -- they're middle class, so they earn $6000 each. And the bottom two, they're poor. They only earn $3000 each.


If only.

That top guy?  He earns $2,124,000 to the next six's $6000.

So of course that means he's splitting 1.2 million between everyone, and they're all totally loaded now.  Poverty solved.
 
2013-10-05 07:35:51 PM  

Mrbogey: We've spent an incredible amount that dwarfs the collective wealth of most of the rest of the world and we still have poverty. Perhaps we need to define poverty more along the lines of standard of living and not a differential basis. To live at 1965 levels of poverty you'd need to make very little money.


Sometimes you say shiat that makes me think you're really a) very smart and b) not at all conservative.

The amount of money a person earns is pretty irrelevant in absolute terms. A person who makes, say, $75,000 can be very well off if they're single, live in Bozeman, have no extra debt burden, and is in reasonable health...or they could be lower-class if they live in Orange County CA, have three kids, one of whom is special-needs, a student loan, and two cars. But for statistical purposes (i.e. gross income), they're essentially the same.
 
2013-10-05 07:57:41 PM  

whidbey: llortcM_yllort: whidbey: super_grass: This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.

Actually, more often than not the FPT is a place where more often than not I can say with certainty that conservatives are spiteful hateful usually ignorant (not to mention socially outdated) people. Sorry if that makes you mad or something.

To be fair, liberals on Fark are more likely than not to be spiteful, hateful, and ignorant.

Bullshiat. And if our tone comes off as more than a bit uncivil, it's because we're sick of the footdragging conservative mindset being the constantly unchallengeable paradigm in our society.

You just want to defend backward thinking, and project it onto enlightened people. Yeah I went there.


And you just proved his point beautifully. Liberals are without a doubt the most closed-minded, immature, arrogant, illogical, and hateful people on the planet.
 
2013-10-05 08:06:52 PM  

TerminalEchoes: whidbey: llortcM_yllort: whidbey: super_grass: This is a place for butting heads. Don't pretend it's anything else.

Actually, more often than not the FPT is a place where more often than not I can say with certainty that conservatives are spiteful hateful usually ignorant (not to mention socially outdated) people. Sorry if that makes you mad or something.

To be fair, liberals on Fark are more likely than not to be spiteful, hateful, and ignorant.

Bullshiat. And if our tone comes off as more than a bit uncivil, it's because we're sick of the footdragging conservative mindset being the constantly unchallengeable paradigm in our society.

You just want to defend backward thinking, and project it onto enlightened people. Yeah I went there.

And you just proved his point beautifully. Liberals are without a doubt the most closed-minded, immature, arrogant, illogical, and hateful people on the planet.


Like the inquisition or crusades, but with more unfounded self-rightousness.
 
2013-10-05 08:07:39 PM  

TerminalEchoes: Liberals are without a doubt the most closed-minded, immature, arrogant, illogical, and hateful people on the planet.


That's the worst "No, U!" post I've seen all day.

You've never actually met a liberal, have you?
 
2013-10-05 08:08:46 PM  

quatchi: That's the worst "No, U!" post I've seen all day.


Then clearly you haven't met the farklibs.
 
2013-10-05 08:15:44 PM  

super_grass: And you just proved his point beautifully. Liberals are without a doubt the most closed-minded, immature, arrogant, illogical, and hateful people on the planet.


Conservative projection. Like clockwork.
 
2013-10-05 08:21:31 PM  

Mugato: super_grass: And you just proved his point beautifully. Liberals are without a doubt the most closed-minded, immature, arrogant, illogical, and hateful people on the planet.

Conservative projection. Like clockwork.


"You are being hateful for pointing out our hatefulness."

Project your weakness on your enemy, works all the time, none of the time.
 
2013-10-05 09:56:32 PM  
Switzerland is voting on guaranteed minimum income and you jokers can't feed and cloth a metric ton of Americans.
 
2013-10-05 09:56:42 PM  
What tax cuts for the rich? We have higher taxes on the rich (though lower for everyone else) than we've had in 20-30years.

Is there some alternate universe where taxes on the rich are lower now?

You guys are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
 
2013-10-05 09:59:44 PM  
 
2013-10-05 10:02:34 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: What tax cuts for the rich? We have higher taxes on the rich (though lower for everyone else) than we've had in 20-30years.

Is there some alternate universe where taxes on the rich are lower now?

You guys are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.



I assume you're trolling. You should take classes to get better at it.
 
2013-10-05 10:07:06 PM  

quatchi: TerminalEchoes: Liberals are without a doubt the most closed-minded, immature, arrogant, illogical, and hateful people on the planet.

That's the worst "No, U!" post I've seen all day.

You've never actually met a liberal, have you?


From his Fark Profile: Bio: Believe it or not, there is absolutely nothing even remotely interesting about me.

I find it 110% believable.
 
2013-10-05 10:37:18 PM  

Mrbogey: Dusk-You-n-Me: 8 million people were lifted out of poverty under Clinton. 8.3 million fell back into poverty under W. Maybe poverty and homelessness are perceived as less of a problem because it becomes less of a problem when Democrats are in charge.

[blogs-images.forbes.com image 678x460]


Where did you get that graph? Can you post the link?
 
2013-10-05 10:40:16 PM  

Mrbogey: timujin: Well, let's see here. Right this minute, there's a linked article talking about how poverty's a problem. And right this minute, a Democrat is in charge. Therefore, poverty is a problem while a Democrat is in charge. Huh, you're a liar, imagine that.

First of all, the Guardian is criticizing the lack of coverage of poverty in the US media. Second of all, the Guardian isn't a US media outlet.

Should I use hand puppets so you can understand this better?


Is there any way to interpret the "point" of this post other than reading it as saying all foreign media is dishonest? Maybe someone could translate this for me not-bath salt-smoking ass as I don't understand otherwise.
 
2013-10-05 10:42:06 PM  

Infernalist: Sure we have tons of poors in this country, but hey, poors in other countries have it much worse, so ours better not complain too loudly, cause the GOP is always looking for a reason to cut food assistance and unemployment insurance.


A 15% poverty rate is not much different from other developed nations, but your assertion that the poor in other countries have it worse than in the US is not correct. At least not when compared to other developed countries almost all of which have more comprehensive programs in place to assist the poor.
 
2013-10-05 10:52:16 PM  

SevenizGud: Well, the losers already pay 0%, so how would you cut their taxes? Reduce the tax rate to -40%?


That is a fantastic idea. To pay for this we should increase capital gains tax to 1.5x income tax and add in a transaction tax of 0.01% per share sold/purchased and we might just start to be able to stop this ship from sinking. I would also be a fan of a tax on all movements of large sums of money to institutions outside of the USA and a 75% generational wealth transfer tax (on estates >$5,000,000).
 
2013-10-05 11:03:03 PM  

Linux_Yes: PC LOAD LETTER: What Republicans want poor people to be like:

[gdb.voanews.com image 850x566]


More for them
less for everyone else.

and the so called 'free enterprise market' in America is all but gone.  its a controlled market now.


That's true in a way. Capitalism has been replaced with corporate capitalism. It's much more difficult for small players to compete now. And the corporations have enough money to able to pervert the course of democracy by buying allegiance from corrupt politicians.

I'm really surprised that their are so many ordinary people who defend and support this system. It's not the way
 
2013-10-05 11:11:13 PM  

kg2095: Linux_Yes: PC LOAD LETTER: What Republicans want poor people to be like:

[gdb.voanews.com image 850x566]


More for them
less for everyone else.

and the so called 'free enterprise market' in America is all but gone.  its a controlled market now.

That's true in a way. Capitalism has been replaced with corporate capitalism. It's much more difficult for small players to compete now. And the corporations have enough money to able to pervert the course of democracy by buying allegiance from corrupt politicians.

I'm really surprised that their are so many ordinary people who defend and support this system. It's not the way


Cut myself off and can't remember what I was going to say after 'way'.
 
2013-10-05 11:25:26 PM  

kg2095: Mrbogey: Dusk-You-n-Me: 8 million people were lifted out of poverty under Clinton. 8.3 million fell back into poverty under W. Maybe poverty and homelessness are perceived as less of a problem because it becomes less of a problem when Democrats are in charge.

[blogs-images.forbes.com image 678x460]

Where did you get that graph? Can you post the link?


I believe it comes from Dan Mitchell.
 
2013-10-05 11:40:13 PM  
Do any of you Americans understand artificial scarcity? Does it impact your understanding of the econometrics of today's society?
 
2013-10-05 11:48:04 PM  
You were all born behind the curve. You don't know what do to with today. Right?
 
2013-10-05 11:51:26 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: Switzerland is voting on guaranteed minimum income and you jokers can't feed and cloth a metric ton of Americans.


Have you seen how fat most Americans are? A metric ton is, like, four of us.
 
2013-10-06 12:17:11 AM  

BMulligan: Phil Moskowitz: Switzerland is voting on guaranteed minimum income and you jokers can't feed and cloth a metric ton of Americans.

Have you seen how fat most Americans are? A metric ton is, like, four of us.


The great thing about you guys is you argue about things your brain can understand, but you ignore the actual economics.

http://i.imgur.com/JzdIanr.png

You people literally have no understanding of that graph. SO you biatch about welfare mothers. You're the perfect humans for the people that use you.
 
2013-10-06 01:45:58 AM  
What pocket ninja did was beautiful, and I just cant let a troll like that go unanswered, because of its beauty.  Lets just use REAL numbers based on the 2011 census.

So 10 guys.
2 make 10,000
2 make 20,000
2 make 38,000
2 make 62,000
2 make 101,000
and 2 make 186,000

We tax everything above 50K at a 50% rate.

And then we re-distribute it to EVERYONE.  Even the rich guys, just in case they have something bad happen.


Now its 24,800 for the bottom 2
34,800 for the next two
52,800 for the next 2
70,800 for the next two
And finally....132,800 for the richest folks

Voila poverty resolved.  Plus...no more need for welfare, food stamps, or unemployment insurance.

AND everyone benefits, even the rich guys now have a guarentee that they will never be in abject poverty, PLUS the economy does even better as people on the bottom spend that money.....

Now...but you say..those people wont be running companies or blah blah.

So...yes taxes went up, but even after that....lets say those 10 folks have 1 million dollars of total wealth.  (the million is a made up number)

1 guy owns 731,000 of it
1 guy has 120,000
the next 2 jointly own 109,000 of it
the next 2 jointly own 40K

And the remaining 5?  They own $400 each

Also based on real percentages.  Yeah.

And those bottom 5 people?  No matter how hard they work, how smart they are they probably will never move beyond maybe making it into owning 20K.  This is why people play the lottery.  They will never have the capital income to make it out of poverty.  It takes money to make money.
 
2013-10-06 01:55:55 AM  
Gah lots of math errors.

bottom 4 not 5, and I missed taxing the 101K folks, so theyre incomes wouldgo down as well,and the underlying number would actually go up.  sigh.  tired.

Post tax:
2 make 26,500
2 make 36,500
2 make 54,500
2 make 72,000
2 make 67,000
and 2 make 134,000
 
2013-10-06 01:59:59 AM  

Phil Moskowitz: Switzerland is voting on guaranteed minimum income and you jokers can't feed and cloth a metric ton of Americans.



Jesus.  I'd move there if they'd take me and my children.  (and seriously at my income levels Id be the one getting gouged tax wise hard, but I would know my children would be safe and have opportunities.)
 
2013-10-06 02:03:37 AM  

jgbrowning: negat



you mean the EITC is a bad thing ?
 
2013-10-06 02:09:02 AM  

Phil Moskowitz: Switzerland is voting on guaranteed minimum income and you jokers can't feed and cloth a metric ton of Americans.


I'd wager Switzerland-- if there is an actually useful metric for it-- has a *much* higher quantitative productivity per worker metric than the USA.   While I'm no GOP voter, presuming 'merka and its citizens deserve high quality life given their output (and/or intelligence-- as it has to correlate) is ... well... a losing proposition.
 
2013-10-06 02:23:33 AM  

Leader O'Cola: Phil Moskowitz: Switzerland is voting on guaranteed minimum income and you jokers can't feed and cloth a metric ton of Americans.

I'd wager Switzerland-- if there is an actually useful metric for it-- has a *much* higher quantitative productivity per worker metric than the USA.   While I'm no GOP voter, presuming 'merka and its citizens deserve high quality life given their output (and/or intelligence-- as it has to correlate) is ... well... a losing proposition.


How much do you want to wager?

US is 63.27 compared to switzerlands 49.46

Only two countries outdo us, Luxemborg at 74.951, and at Norway 74.88.  The myth of lazy Americans is exactly that, a myth.
 
2013-10-06 02:59:37 AM  
Mrbogey: Immediate response: No one challenges the conservative paradigm on fark. Nobody

i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-06 03:02:39 AM  

Mugato: Debeo Summa Credo: What tax cuts for the rich? We have higher taxes on the rich (though lower for everyone else) than we've had in 20-30years.

Is there some alternate universe where taxes on the rich are lower now?

You guys are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

I assume you're trolling. You should take classes to get better at it.


Maybe he's posting from Bizzaro World?
 
2013-10-06 03:25:11 AM  

Greywar: Leader O'Cola: Phil Moskowitz: Switzerland is voting on guaranteed minimum income and you jokers can't feed and cloth a metric ton of Americans.

I'd wager Switzerland-- if there is an actually useful metric for it-- has a *much* higher quantitative productivity per worker metric than the USA.   While I'm no GOP voter, presuming 'merka and its citizens deserve high quality life given their output (and/or intelligence-- as it has to correlate) is ... well... a losing proposition.

How much do you want to wager?

US is 63.27 compared to switzerlands 49.46

Only two countries outdo us, Luxemborg at 74.951, and at Norway 74.88.  The myth of lazy Americans is exactly that, a myth.



oh look, it's *that guy* who

1) quotes #'s without a citation
2) quotes #'s that aren't what's asked for
3) is a grade-a shiatclown.


but thanks for wasting my time clicking on the "some douchelord replied to you" email.
 
2013-10-06 05:13:23 AM  

Greywar: Gah lots of math errors.

bottom 4 not 5, and I missed taxing the 101K folks, so theyre incomes wouldgo down as well,and the underlying number would actually go up.  sigh.  tired.

Post tax:
2 make 26,500
2 make 36,500
2 make 54,500
2 make 72,000
2 make 67,000
and 2 make 134,000


So? The point is not to make everyone equal (I would hope). It's only to make sure a) one person is living in imperial splendor while b) 10 people are living in grinding poverty wondering where their next meal is coming from.

If that can be accomplished without taxing everyone at 50%, then that's fine. If it can be done without setting the middle tiers at each other's throats, even better. I personally don't begrudge wealthy folks their money, quite frankly. If Warren Buffett wants to have $50 billion dollars to throw around, hey, more power to him. What's irksome to a lot of people isn't the money differential per se, it's the attitude so many wealthy people seem to have that poorer people deserve their squalor and they should be happy with it, and that probably would not change even if we had some kind of wealth redistribution.

Money is easy to even out. Attitudes not so much.
 
2013-10-06 08:46:32 AM  

Leader O'Cola: jgbrowning: negat


you mean the EITC is a bad thing ?


Nope.
 
2013-10-06 08:53:45 AM  

The Name: llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: The Name: llortcM_yllort: It's another thing entirely to claim that 30% of the country are evil.

Well, "evil" has unnecessary religious and supernatural connotations.  "Well worthy of a good beating and political disenfranchisement" is more like it.

Political disenfranchisement can mean many things.  What do you mean by political disenfranchisement in this instance?

I don't have anything specific in mind, but imagine current voter suppression efforts in red states, except in reverse.

Really?  You'd use the same anti-democratic tactics to silence your opponents that your opponents themselves are doing?  Doesn't that make you a hypocrite and just as bad as them?

You reap what you sow, man.  You reap what you sow.


Let us not forget that reaping what one sows goes both ways and instead work to make the GOP and its agenda irrelevant to policy instead of being motherfarkers who engineer denying basic rights to our fellow Americans Koch-brothers style.
 
2013-10-06 08:56:57 AM  

Mrbogey: soze: The War On Poverty has maintained poverty below 15% since implementation, a marked sustained decrease from previous historical poverty levels, even accounting for the many booms and busts we have experienced since implementation. Impressively consistent.

Additionally, the chart is curiously cropped to cut off anything from before the post-War boom. Interesting, no? Is that stupidity or malfeasance? We could determine that if you would cite your sources. Since you won't, I'll do it for you:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2011/09/13/dramatic-increase-in- po verty-rate-one-small-step-for-obama-one-giant-step-for-the-so-called-w ar-on-poverty/

Well, that's neat. An article in Forbes by a Cato Institute employee. I wonder what it looks like before 1950? WELL GEE I'D LOVE TO LOOK THAT UP BUT THOSE REPUBLICAN farkTARDS SHUT DOWN THE DAMN GOVERNMENT SO THE CENSUS DB IS DOWN.

Since WW2, we haven't had a major war effort that refocused the entire economy or a major depression. We can't know what the poverty rate would have looked like without the programs but typically war and depression drive it up. So I really don't think it staying around the same relatively low point is all that significant of an achievement especially since the rate was falling before it.

We've spent an incredible amount that dwarfs the collective wealth of most of the rest of the world and we still have poverty. Perhaps we need to define poverty more along the lines of standard of living and not a differential basis. To live at 1965 levels of poverty you'd need to make very little money.


You're ignoring that 1965 levels of income dont go as far in 2013 wrt buying food and paying rent than it did in 1965.
 
2013-10-06 10:24:11 AM  

Pocket Ninja: *sigh*

OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society. Imagine all of America with a population of only 10 people. OK? And in this 10-person America, just for the sake of argument, "middle class" is considered having an income of $4200 per year. Yes, I know, that's unrealistic. Like I said, simplified.

Now, this society, like ours, has a top 1 percent who are the wealthy job creators. So that's one person who in this society earns triple income...that's $15000. The next 6 under him -- numbers 2 through 7 -- they're middle class, so they earn $6000 each. And the bottom two, they're poor. They only earn $3000 each.

OK, got it?

Now, the poorest two people don't pay taxes, just like in real life. So they get to keep all $3000 of their dollars and spend it on whatever the want, prime rib or rims for their hoopdies or sneakers or whatever. The middle class, they get taxed at 25 percent. So they're not *actually* worth $6000 each...they're only worth $4500. Hmm...you see what just happened there? Taxes actually pushed them almost to the poverty line. That's another issue, though, we'll deal with that another time.

Now, the job creator. He's taxed at 40 percent, which means that his $15000 is really only $9000. That's $9000 he now has to put back into the economy, by creating new jobs, giving raising, donating to charity, etc. So, divide $9000 by the remaining 9 people, that's $1000 each. What's that mean?

It means that the middle class is back up to $5500 -- just over middle class -- and the poor are up to $4000. Still poor.

Now, what happens if you cut the job creator's taxes to, say 20 percent? Now he's worth $12000. That divided by 9? $1333. Add that to the poor's $3000, and what's happened?

That's right. Poverty has disappeared.

Think about what you say before you say it, subby. Hurtful snark gets you nowhere.


You just earned a Nobel Prize in economics, sir.
 
2013-10-06 11:17:42 AM  

Pocket Ninja: *sigh*

OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society. Imagine all of America with a population of only 10 people. OK? And in this 10-person America, just for the sake of argument, "middle class" is considered having an income of $4200 per year. Yes, I know, that's unrealistic. Like I said, simplified.

Now, this society, like ours, has a top 1 percent who are the wealthy job creators. So that's one person who in this society earns triple income...that's $15000. The next 6 under him -- numbers 2 through 7 -- they're middle class, so they earn $6000 each. And the bottom two, they're poor. They only earn $3000 each.

OK, got it?

Now, the poorest two people don't pay taxes, just like in real life. So they get to keep all $3000 of their dollars and spend it on whatever the want, prime rib or rims for their hoopdies or sneakers or whatever. The middle class, they get taxed at 25 percent. So they're not *actually* worth $6000 each...they're only worth $4500. Hmm...you see what just happened there? Taxes actually pushed them almost to the poverty line. That's another issue, though, we'll deal with that another time.

Now, the job creator. He's taxed at 40 percent, which means that his $15000 is really only $9000. That's $9000 he now has to put back into the economy, by creating new jobs, giving raising, donating to charity, etc. So, divide $9000 by the remaining 9 people, that's $1000 each. What's that mean?

It means that the middle class is back up to $5500 -- just over middle class -- and the poor are up to $4000. Still poor.

Now, what happens if you cut the job creator's taxes to, say 20 percent? Now he's worth $12000. That divided by 9? $1333. Add that to the poor's $3000, and what's happened?

That's right. Poverty has disappeared.

Think about what you say before you say it, subby. Hurtful snark gets you nowhere.


Well done! One of your finer works...
 
2013-10-06 10:56:24 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Pocket Ninja: *sigh*

OK, subby, let me try to illustrate this with an analogy that uses a slightly simplified view of society. Imagine all of America with a population of only 10 people. OK? And in this 10-person America, just for the sake of argument, "middle class" is considered having an income of $4200 per year. Yes, I know, that's unrealistic. Like I said, simplified.

Now, this society, like ours, has a top 1 percent who are the wealthy job creators. So that's one person who in this society earns triple income...that's $15000. The next 6 under him -- numbers 2 through 7 -- they're middle class, so they earn $6000 each. And the bottom two, they're poor. They only earn $3000 each.

OK, got it?

Now, the poorest two people don't pay taxes, just like in real life. So they get to keep all $3000 of their dollars and spend it on whatever the want, prime rib or rims for their hoopdies or sneakers or whatever. The middle class, they get taxed at 25 percent. So they're not *actually* worth $6000 each...they're only worth $4500. Hmm...you see what just happened there? Taxes actually pushed them almost to the poverty line. That's another issue, though, we'll deal with that another time.

Now, the job creator. He's taxed at 40 percent, which means that his $15000 is really only $9000. That's $9000 he now has to put back into the economy, by creating new jobs, giving raising, donating to charity, etc. So, divide $9000 by the remaining 9 people, that's $1000 each. What's that mean?

It means that the middle class is back up to $5500 -- just over middle class -- and the poor are up to $4000. Still poor.

Now, what happens if you cut the job creator's taxes to, say 20 percent? Now he's worth $12000. That divided by 9? $1333. Add that to the poor's $3000, and what's happened?

That's right. Poverty has disappeared.

Think about what you say before you say it, subby. Hurtful snark gets you nowhere.

You just earned an  Ig Nobel Prize in economics, sir.


FTFY
 
2013-10-07 03:09:04 AM  

Leader O'Cola: Greywar: Leader O'Cola: Phil Moskowitz: Switzerland is voting on guaranteed minimum income and you jokers can't feed and cloth a metric ton of Americans.

I'd wager Switzerland-- if there is an actually useful metric for it-- has a *much* higher quantitative productivity per worker metric than the USA.   While I'm no GOP voter, presuming 'merka and its citizens deserve high quality life given their output (and/or intelligence-- as it has to correlate) is ... well... a losing proposition.

How much do you want to wager?

US is 63.27 compared to switzerlands 49.46

Only two countries outdo us, Luxemborg at 74.951, and at Norway 74.88.  The myth of lazy Americans is exactly that, a myth.


oh look, it's *that guy* who

1) quotes #'s without a citation
2) quotes #'s that aren't what's asked for
3) is a grade-a shiatclown.


but thanks for wasting my time clicking on the "some douchelord replied to you" email.


Sorry but maybe you could have googled it.  I even gave you the numbers to google.  There are in fact numbers that represent productivity per person, I quoted some for you, I suppose I could spend the time looking them up and linking them for you, but I assumed most people truly curious would google it.

Since you can't be bothered to do it (and instead spend your time calling me a douchelord etc) I will be specific.

Thats from the conference board a business membership and research organization based in New York.  Referenced by wikipedia in their list of countries by GDP (PPP) per hour worked.

Course your response was simply full of insults, I suppose I could reply in kind.  but I shall refrain.
 
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