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(The New York Times)   The longer this goes on, the more John Boehner is sounding like General Paulus, trapped in the frozen desert of Stalingrad, trying desperately to convince his troops that the future holds anything but abject and total surrender   (nytimes.com) divider line 59
    More: Interesting, Boehner, GOP, Vin Weber, Oklahoma Republican, pragmatists, House Republican Conference, deserts  
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3035 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Oct 2013 at 12:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-10-05 12:58:23 PM  
4 votes:

Ambivalence: I do hope Pelosi's attempt to circumvent Boehner to pass a clean CR works. It would be deliciously ironic for republicans to depend on democrats to save us all from the crisis republicans created.


If by "ironic" you mean "how things have been for the last couple of decades" then yes. The Dems are always the ones cleaning up the the messes made by Republicans.
2013-10-05 02:36:11 PM  
3 votes:
With his troops anxious for a way forward, Speaker John A. Boehner began a closed-door meeting of House Republicans on Friday morning with a recitation of letters from local schoolchildren on how they deal with stress.

Clearly, he's taking advice from the people the GOP most identify with.
2013-10-05 02:04:05 PM  
3 votes:

SnapeShots: Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?

Only two posts to get this Godwinned. Good job!


It's not really a Godwin, in particular, when TFH explicitly references WWII history.
2013-10-05 01:21:44 PM  
3 votes:

HighOnCraic: General Woundwort:  Come back!  Come back and fight!  Dogs aren't dangerous!


The Black Rabbit of Inle awaits.
fc05.deviantart.net
2013-10-05 01:18:26 PM  
3 votes:

Skleenar: Conservative humor.


I remember reading a 2010 column by Krugman, and he was talking about if we elect the GOP to Congress, it would be the biggest step backward for American governance in generations. I thought he was being hyperbolic. Turns out he was spot on.
2013-10-05 01:02:33 PM  
3 votes:
Boehner thinks that if he lets a clean CR come to a vote and pass, he'll get primaried.

This entire thing is Boehner not wanting to lose his job.  That's it.  There's tons of stuff that's not actually relevant or that important.  It's all Boehner wanting to keep his job.
2013-10-05 01:02:27 PM  
3 votes:

cretinbob: TheManofPA: I have this odd feeling that after the shutdown, the first major House vote will be a repeal of Obamacare that will pass.

no. it won't


Oh, it'll pass the House. Like the last 41 times.
2013-10-05 01:00:42 PM  
3 votes:

Kome:  The Dems are always the ones cleaning up the the messes made by Republicans.


This should be engraved onto all national currency.
2013-10-05 10:36:07 AM  
3 votes:

Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?


Obviously Cruz, with Sean Hannity as Goebells.
2013-10-05 05:27:01 PM  
2 votes:

DFWTCU: Here's the deal.... If nothing gets passed at the debt ceiling isn't raised... We will all farming lose bad.  And blame will go around to everyone... Guaranteed.  House  repub reps may get voted out.... But not until an entire year later and the damage will have already been done.

Dems are going to blink.... They have to.... But how much they blink to meet blinking repub reps is the question.


No.

If they blink, this is forever legitimized. And will happen. Again and again and again.

And no, we're not going over the debt ceiling. Because I realize Obama has *said* he won't use alternative measures to get around it, but he has to, or there's no pressure for the house to try.

For whatever faults Obama may have, he is a pragmatist. He is not just going to sit there and watch the World Economy take a nuke. If forced to, he *will* use one of the possible workarounds.
2013-10-05 03:02:52 PM  
2 votes:
One man will not allow a clean CR bill to come to a vote.

A single man can completely throttle the entire government.

This is absolutely unacceptable.
2013-10-05 02:39:46 PM  
2 votes:
Once again, we are not going to have a 3rd party in this country.

People should be criticizing the Democrats for their refusal to fight for their policies, but there should be overwhelming support for what they're doing and utter condemnation for the Republican party, and frankly, possible calls for their disbanding as a political entity.

This is really the only way.
2013-10-05 02:06:22 PM  
2 votes:
May I humbly request the Senate rescinds the clean CR at the current level and submits a new one at pre-furlough levels. Fark them for nottaking the deal
2013-10-05 01:53:24 PM  
2 votes:
And like the Battle of Stalingrad, Stalingrad wasn't the original objective, the oilfields of the Caucusus were. he Wehrmacht until then had not ever been beaten, they excelled at mobile combined arms ('blitzkrieg'), and pointedly refused to get involved in urban combat.

Ending Obamacare = oilfields, Stalingrad = shutdown. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

The shutdown became the objective, now the GOP reps are wondering how the hell they ended up in Stalingrad in the first place.
2013-10-05 01:22:02 PM  
2 votes:

FormlessOne: Subby, I do have to say, that was a wonderful reference.


There was this show that would come on the Military channel that analyzed various commander's battle plans and moves. Stalingrad is the most interesting episode, because it reallys shows how the Germans just lost the plot so quickly. Towards the end, you almost feel sorry for Paulus, because in addition to the Russian winter decimating them, every move he makes gets thwarted either by the Russians or - more often - by Hitler being his usual delusional self.
2013-10-05 01:12:29 PM  
2 votes:

Tannhauser: Dafatone: Boehner thinks that if he lets a clean CR come to a vote and pass, he'll get primaried.

This entire thing is Boehner not wanting to lose his job.  That's it.  There's tons of stuff that's not actually relevant or that important.  It's all Boehner wanting to keep his job.

The Dems can promise to vote for him as Speaker if he brings the clean CR to the floor and he gets a vote of no confidence from the GOP.


That doesn't help him if he's primaried by some Tea Party candidate and does not get re-elected to the House in the first place.
2013-10-05 01:10:45 PM  
2 votes:
The GOP has certainly scored a huge victory here.  There is literally no downside.  Keep up the pressure, stalwart champions of freedom!  The nation is depending on you!

And don't throw me into that briar patch, neither.
2013-10-05 01:09:28 PM  
2 votes:
General Woundwort:  Come back!  Come back and fight!  Dogs aren't dangerous!
2013-10-05 12:54:50 PM  
2 votes:

Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?


yes.
2013-10-05 12:46:49 PM  
2 votes:
I do hope Pelosi's attempt to circumvent Boehner to pass a clean CR works. It would be deliciously ironic for republicans to depend on democrats to save us all from the crisis republicans created.
2013-10-05 10:28:08 AM  
2 votes:
So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?
2013-10-05 09:08:30 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: Evilnissan: Going to be a blast if the website traffic problems get linked to a gop Dos attacks.

I doubt there's enough GOPers out there with the skills to do that.  Computers are science, after all.  They ignore religious talk and have never come out against abortion, so most GOPers ignore computers or equate them with the devil.


But there are SO many Overzealous Stafferstm
2013-10-05 05:57:06 PM  
1 votes:

jjorsett: The Democrats ought to be dropping to their knees in gratitude for the shutdown. If not for that, the news media might have to cover the ongoing catastrophe that is the opening of Obamacare. Thanks, Republicans!


Yes, sweetie. millions of Americans being able to afford medical care is a catastrophe.

A catastrophe. Healthy Americans, going to work, helping reduce our federal deficit. A catastrophe.
2013-10-05 05:01:28 PM  
1 votes:

SnapeShots: Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?

Only two posts to get this Godwinned. Good job!


The headline references General Paulus and Stalingrad. World War II ring any bells? How about the Great Patriotic War? The war against Hitler? Hello? McFly?

Mentioning Hitler in the context of that headline doesn't count as a Godwin.
2013-10-05 04:56:50 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: clambam: cameroncrazy1984: clambam: If they'd known what a mess it would turn out to be, they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of trying to undercut it this way.

The only people who think it's a mess are those who are reaching for straws trying to make something into a failure.

Sorry man, it's kind of a mess. I'm speaking purely in terms of the technical challenge of enabling everyone in the US to access ACA benefits in a timely manner. If it's all ironed out in a week, fine. If it isn't, there's a serious problem.

Why is it a serious problem? The mandate doesn't go into effect for three more months.


You weren't responding to me, but I'll chime in anyway.   Yes, the technical glitches are very bad.  I work for a "death panel" and I have a little insight here.

Anyone (the GOP) saying people don't want this is insane.  The demand has been incredible.  The phones have been ringing off the hook with people wanting to sign up.  However, they want to know if they are eligible for subsidies before doing so.  And that's where things are falling apart.  Web sites don't work when you get to that point.  We could have signed up *hundreds* of new members this week, but due to those problems we only have a handful.  To make matters worse, we have a network of brokers trying to sell our plans, but they can't close the deal because they can't quote the subsidies.  They are incensed because they have people with checkbooks in hand ready to make their binder payments and sign up but they can't.

For me, I don't understand why anyone is even trying to sign up now.  The whole point of an open enrollment period is to have time to shop.  Coverage doesn't start until Jan 1 no matter what.

But to reiterate - it is unbelievable how many people have been waiting for this to happen.  The competition is only going to get better next year when the delayed employer mandates kick in and the really big players come into the exchanges.
2013-10-05 03:55:40 PM  
1 votes:

SnapeShots: whidbey: the longer this goes on

I doubt it--The past 5 years should have been the official death of the Republican party, but there are more than enough stupid spiteful Americans to put another Bush/Romney/McCain type administration into office in 2016.

And now there is a precedent where the federal government can force you to buy something against your will. There's also the precedent that the president can waive or delay laws he doesn't like.

Gee...thanks...that helps so much.


If you really believe either of those paranoid contentions, then I don't think anything's going to help you.
2013-10-05 03:38:40 PM  
1 votes:
There is but ONE WAY out of this hole, and it seems that it's KEEP DIGGING!

Good luck with that.
2013-10-05 03:09:52 PM  
1 votes:

randomjsa: Right.

Obama's approval rating is at 41% now by the way.


congressional Republicans' is 17%, what's your point.
2013-10-05 02:49:20 PM  
1 votes:

Evilnissan: Going to be a blast if the website traffic problems get linked to a gop Dos attacks.


I doubt there's enough GOPers out there with the skills to do that.  Computers are science, after all.  They ignore religious talk and have never come out against abortion, so most GOPers ignore computers or equate them with the devil.
2013-10-05 02:15:27 PM  
1 votes:

12349876: SnapeShots: Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?

Only two posts to get this Godwinned. Good job!

OH THE HUMANITY!  A headline that directly reference WWII gets Godwinned!  WHAT ARE THE ODDS!  WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!


You know who else lost his shiat over discussions of the Battle of Stalingrad?
2013-10-05 02:15:26 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: StopLurkListen: And like the Battle of Stalingrad, Stalingrad wasn't the original objective, the oilfields of the Caucusus were. he Wehrmacht until then had not ever been beaten, they excelled at mobile combined arms ('blitzkrieg'), and pointedly refused to get involved in urban combat.

Ending Obamacare = oilfields, Stalingrad = shutdown. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

The shutdown became the objective, now the GOP reps are wondering how the hell they ended up in Stalingrad in the first place.

The Wehrmacht had been beaten the previous winter in the Battle of Moscow. I guess that's like the 2012 election.

Sarah Palin nomination = Beer Hall Putsch
2010 election = 1933 election
2011 debt ceiling = Steamrolling of France
2012 election = battle of moscow
Now = Stalingrad


I stand corrected. I should have instead said how the Wehrmacht 6th Army was completely destroyed.
2013-10-05 02:13:49 PM  
1 votes:

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: I saw Boehner as more of a Helmuth Weidling myself. The Fuhrer is ranting in the bunker about how the shutdown will kill Obamacare all the while the Democrats are on the street to the Reagan Ranch.

If that allegory is too unsettling, we can try an other third of the Axis. Romneyshima and Ryansaki got nuked. But Emperor Reagan's dead, so there's nobody left to announce to the Tea Party Generals and the people that the war's over.

Maybe its too early for this, I think I need another Coke.


When do we get to that other third of the Axis story endings, with Ted Cruz and his female acquaintance Michelle Bachmann at a gas station?
2013-10-05 02:09:39 PM  
1 votes:

Im_Gumby: May I humbly request the Senate rescinds the clean CR at the current level and submits a new one at pre-furlough levels. Fark them for nottaking the deal


"Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally."
2013-10-05 02:07:14 PM  
1 votes:

Bontesla: Anyone else catch that firs paragraph answer find it odd?????


When the media has repeatedly compared your behavior to children's tantrums, you can't just serve up a hanging curveball like that.
2013-10-05 02:06:31 PM  
1 votes:

SnapeShots: Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?

Only two posts to get this Godwinned. Good job!


OH THE HUMANITY!  A headline that directly reference WWII gets Godwinned!  WHAT ARE THE ODDS!  WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!
2013-10-05 02:00:56 PM  
1 votes:
"I do not believe he's primarily concerned with saving his speakership. He's concerned with saving the House Republican Conference," said Vin Weber, a former Republican House member who advises the current House leadership.

Ctrl-F for "saving the country"

Nothing.

Surprised, I am not.
2013-10-05 01:58:31 PM  
1 votes:

StopLurkListen: And like the Battle of Stalingrad, Stalingrad wasn't the original objective, the oilfields of the Caucusus were. he Wehrmacht until then had not ever been beaten, they excelled at mobile combined arms ('blitzkrieg'), and pointedly refused to get involved in urban combat.

Ending Obamacare = oilfields, Stalingrad = shutdown. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

The shutdown became the objective, now the GOP reps are wondering how the hell they ended up in Stalingrad in the first place.


The Wehrmacht had been beaten the previous winter in the Battle of Moscow. I guess that's like the 2012 election.

Sarah Palin nomination = Beer Hall Putsch
2010 election = 1933 election
2011 debt ceiling = Steamrolling of France
2012 election = battle of moscow
Now = Stalingrad
2013-10-05 01:56:17 PM  
1 votes:
At a White House meeting with the president this week, Mr. Boehner twice brought up quiet talks between Ms. Murray and Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, the House Budget Committee chairman, as a way to end the impasse with a broad budget deal. The third time, Mr. Reid laughed out loud.

"I couldn't take it any longer. I said: 'Stop it. They've met a few times and talked about nothing. The meetings were only for you, for show,' " Mr. Reid said.


...ouch.
2013-10-05 01:39:07 PM  
1 votes:
If the speaker were to move on a stopgap spending bill now, without conservative policy priorities attached, it would most likely pass with Republican and Democratic votes. But the ensuing Republican uproar - on and off Capitol Hill - would ensure that there would be no Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.

Which would be the end of the Republican Party.

Aides to Mr. Boehner, however, say the speaker has a clear vision of where he wants to end up in the current crisis, but is unwilling to lay out his goals until he has a Democratic partner with whom to negotiate.

As if anyone would negotiate with him, he can't deliver a pizza, let alone his caucus.
2013-10-05 01:33:41 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Skleenar: Conservative humor.

I remember reading a 2010 column by Krugman, and he was talking about if we elect the GOP to Congress, it would be the biggest step backward for American governance in generations. I thought he was being hyperbolic. Turns out he was spot on.


I remember, right after they were elected, he wrote a column in which the first sentence was "This is going to be a disaster."  I knew he was going to be exactly right.
2013-10-05 01:31:58 PM  
1 votes:

KarmicDisaster: DamnYankees: SamWaters: Obama needs to fix his website ASAP before the government is rebooted with everything but ObamaCare funded.   I see the House just voted to give all the furloughed workers backpay (paid vacation).

I agree with this. Every single time I've tried to register on the site in the last week, it says its suffering from overload and I have to wait, and then it sits on that page forever.

Seems like it might be popular for some reason.


Almost as if millions of Americans have no health insurance.
2013-10-05 01:31:12 PM  
1 votes:

Clutch2013: There was this show that would come on the Military channel that analyzed various commander's battle plans and moves. Stalingrad is the most interesting episode, because it reallys shows how the Germans just lost the plot so quickly. Towards the end, you almost feel sorry for Paulus, because in addition to the Russian winter decimating them, every move he makes gets thwarted either by the Russians or - more often - by Hitler being his usual delusional self.


Back in my college days, I had a printout of the Fifty-Something Ways Of How Hitler Lost The War. One of which was 'extemporaneous invasion of Russia after he sneezed all over the Barbarossa plans'.  Once you start reading about the war in the east, you kinda start wondering if that wasn't all that entirely false.
2013-10-05 01:25:54 PM  
1 votes:

FatherChaos: OK, this is the same guy that just came out and said:

"I was at the White House earlier tonight.  And I listened to the President some 20 times explain to me why he wasn't going to negotiate.  Sat there and listened to the majority leader in the United States senate, describe to me that he's not gonna talk until we surrender.  And then this morning, I got the Wall Street Journal out, and it says "Well, we don't care how long this lasts because we're winning.  This isn't some damn game!"

So, it's OK to win an "epic battle," but not a game?

Call it what you will, Boner, but changing it from a game to a battle doesn't matter.  Fix this situation and get back to work.


Boehner's problem is that his ENTIRE leadership strategy has been entirely based on the idea of pacifying his nutso wing by promising them that if they are patient, they could win concessions by putting the screws to Obama over the debt ceiling. That's what he's been offering them for YEARS, with no other strategy. The fact that its not working and it won't work is destroying the facade and there's no backup. There's nothing to tell his caucus about what happens next, what they can do after this resolves. This is the gotterdammerung.
2013-10-05 01:25:45 PM  
1 votes:
I finally RTFA and I was amused at the author trying to paint boehner as some stalwart champion, delaying the resolution of the shutdown fearing that now that the tea party has shot the nation in the ass over the budget, they may try and shoot the nation in the head over the debt ceiling if the shutdown is resolved too quickly.
2013-10-05 01:14:05 PM  
1 votes:
I saw Boehner as more of a Helmuth Weidling myself. The Fuhrer is ranting in the bunker about how the shutdown will kill Obamacare all the while the Democrats are on the street to the Reagan Ranch.

If that allegory is too unsettling, we can try an other third of the Axis. Romneyshima and Ryansaki got nuked. But Emperor Reagan's dead, so there's nobody left to announce to the Tea Party Generals and the people that the war's over.

Maybe its too early for this, I think I need another Coke.
2013-10-05 01:14:01 PM  
1 votes:

Tannhauser: Dafatone: Boehner thinks that if he lets a clean CR come to a vote and pass, he'll get primaried.

This entire thing is Boehner not wanting to lose his job.  That's it.  There's tons of stuff that's not actually relevant or that important.  It's all Boehner wanting to keep his job.

The Dems can promise to vote for him as Speaker if he brings the clean CR to the floor and he gets a vote of no confidence from the GOP.


Since we're going all Nazi here, I'll say, "Schadenfreude"
2013-10-05 01:12:46 PM  
1 votes:
Enemy at the Gates.
2013-10-05 01:12:17 PM  
1 votes:
Subby, I do have to say, that was a wonderful reference.
2013-10-05 01:11:13 PM  
1 votes:
Wouldn't Bagdad Bob be the more contemporary comparison?

Hmm.... Bagdad Boehner sounds about right.
2013-10-05 01:10:30 PM  
1 votes:

foo monkey: TheManofPA: I have this odd feeling that after the shutdown, the first major House vote will be a repeal of Obamacare that will pass. On one hand that just makes me do a sad chuckle, kind of like watching a clown die by choking on a balloon animal.

Why would it pass when 40+ have failed?


Those 40+ have passed the House. They never get any further than that.
2013-10-05 01:09:40 PM  
1 votes:

KarmicDisaster: foo monkey: TheManofPA: I have this odd feeling that after the shutdown, the first major House vote will be a repeal of Obamacare that will pass. On one hand that just makes me do a sad chuckle, kind of like watching a clown die by choking on a balloon animal.

Why would it pass when 40+ have failed

I'm guessing that he means pass the House. The Senate would reject it as usual.


Yep, meant pass the house, die in the Senate like the last 40 times we've wasted time. I thought my clown dying by choking on a balloon animal gave it away. Maybe I should have went with a juggler who dies while parachuting because he gets impaled on the Empire State building.
2013-10-05 01:04:54 PM  
1 votes:
You've got the wrong map, there! This is Stalingrad!  You wouldn't have much fun in Stalingrad!
Not.. much.. fun.. in.. Stalingrad.  Heinrich you fool!  You have given me the wrong map!
I'm sorry, mein Fuehrer!  Mein... dickey old chum!
2013-10-05 01:03:53 PM  
1 votes:
Boehner is driving the car only he refuses to step on the brake and turn the wheel.  Hey John, the country won't think you're any less of a man if you stop and ask for directions.
2013-10-05 01:02:33 PM  
1 votes:

foo monkey: TheManofPA: I have this odd feeling that after the shutdown, the first major House vote will be a repeal of Obamacare that will pass. On one hand that just makes me do a sad chuckle, kind of like watching a clown die by choking on a balloon animal.

Why would it pass when 40+ have failed


I'm guessing that he means pass the House. The Senate would reject it as usual.
2013-10-05 01:00:38 PM  
1 votes:

TheManofPA: I have this odd feeling that after the shutdown, the first major House vote will be a repeal of Obamacare that will pass. On one hand that just makes me do a sad chuckle, kind of like watching a clown die by choking on a balloon animal.


It's too late. As soon as October 1st came and the exchanges started up the mouthbreathers started to realize they'd been played all along.
2013-10-05 12:59:43 PM  
1 votes:

Ambivalence: I do hope Pelosi's attempt to circumvent Boehner to pass a clean CR works. It would be deliciously ironic for republicans to depend on democrats to save us all from the crisis republicans created.


It won't. The discharge petition is pointless because many times since the shutdown, Democrats have offered an amendment to a bill the House was working on, which if taken up would have passed the clean CR. The Speaker ruled them out of order, and the member called for a vote of the house to override the Speaker.

Not a single GOP rep voted for any of them. They won't vote for a discharge petition either. The moderate GOP Representatives are either lying about being willing to vote for a clean CR or more afraid of their own party than the American public. Either way, parlimentary tricks won't get us out of this. The only way forward is a clean CR, which is not looking likely before the next election at this point.
2013-10-05 12:58:40 PM  
1 votes:

TheManofPA: I have this odd feeling that after the shutdown, the first major House vote will be a repeal of Obamacare that will pass. On one hand that just makes me do a sad chuckle, kind of like watching a clown die by choking on a balloon animal.


Why would it pass when 40+ have failed?
2013-10-05 12:57:32 PM  
1 votes:
I have this odd feeling that after the shutdown, the first major House vote will be a repeal of Obamacare that will pass. On one hand that just makes me do a sad chuckle, kind of like watching a clown die by choking on a balloon animal.
2013-10-05 12:57:30 PM  
1 votes:

Ambivalence: I do hope Pelosi's attempt to circumvent Boehner to pass a clean CR works. It would be deliciously ironic for republicans to depend on democrats to save us all from the crisis republicans created.


It would also change the dynamic entirely, Dems would just introduce clean bills 45 days ahead of time (the minimum is 30 to do it this way), and effectively remove the ability of the fringe elements to control the majority of Congress.
 
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