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(The New York Times)   The longer this goes on, the more John Boehner is sounding like General Paulus, trapped in the frozen desert of Stalingrad, trying desperately to convince his troops that the future holds anything but abject and total surrender   (nytimes.com) divider line 144
    More: Interesting, Boehner, GOP, Vin Weber, Oklahoma Republican, pragmatists, House Republican Conference, deserts  
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3035 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Oct 2013 at 12:52 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-05 01:24:03 PM

KarmicDisaster: DamnYankees: SamWaters: Obama needs to fix his website ASAP before the government is rebooted with everything but ObamaCare funded.   I see the House just voted to give all the furloughed workers backpay (paid vacation).

I agree with this. Every single time I've tried to register on the site in the last week, it says its suffering from overload and I have to wait, and then it sits on that page forever.

Seems like it might be popular for some reason.


There's zero chance in hell the website was suffering from being over capacity at 7 AM on a Saturday morning.
 
2013-10-05 01:25:45 PM
I finally RTFA and I was amused at the author trying to paint boehner as some stalwart champion, delaying the resolution of the shutdown fearing that now that the tea party has shot the nation in the ass over the budget, they may try and shoot the nation in the head over the debt ceiling if the shutdown is resolved too quickly.
 
2013-10-05 01:25:54 PM

FatherChaos: OK, this is the same guy that just came out and said:

"I was at the White House earlier tonight.  And I listened to the President some 20 times explain to me why he wasn't going to negotiate.  Sat there and listened to the majority leader in the United States senate, describe to me that he's not gonna talk until we surrender.  And then this morning, I got the Wall Street Journal out, and it says "Well, we don't care how long this lasts because we're winning.  This isn't some damn game!"

So, it's OK to win an "epic battle," but not a game?

Call it what you will, Boner, but changing it from a game to a battle doesn't matter.  Fix this situation and get back to work.


Boehner's problem is that his ENTIRE leadership strategy has been entirely based on the idea of pacifying his nutso wing by promising them that if they are patient, they could win concessions by putting the screws to Obama over the debt ceiling. That's what he's been offering them for YEARS, with no other strategy. The fact that its not working and it won't work is destroying the facade and there's no backup. There's nothing to tell his caucus about what happens next, what they can do after this resolves. This is the gotterdammerung.
 
2013-10-05 01:27:53 PM

Clutch2013: FormlessOne: Subby, I do have to say, that was a wonderful reference.

There was this show that would come on the Military channel that analyzed various commander's battle plans and moves. Stalingrad is the most interesting episode, because it reallys shows how the Germans just lost the plot so quickly. Towards the end, you almost feel sorry for Paulus, because in addition to the Russian winter decimating them, every move he makes gets thwarted either by the Russians or - more often - by Hitler being his usual delusional self.


My phone hates me.
 
2013-10-05 01:27:57 PM

Dafatone: Boehner thinks that if he lets a clean CR come to a vote and pass, he'll get primaried.

This entire thing is Boehner not wanting to lose his job.  That's it.  There's tons of stuff that's not actually relevant or that important.  It's all Boehner wanting to keep his job.


Same with the 18 or so "reasonable" GOP house members.  If they stay in line they won't get primaried.  They would win their primary, but why bother if you can avoid it by being craven?
 
2013-10-05 01:30:11 PM

DamnYankees: KarmicDisaster: DamnYankees: SamWaters: Obama needs to fix his website ASAP before the government is rebooted with everything but ObamaCare funded.   I see the House just voted to give all the furloughed workers backpay (paid vacation).

I agree with this. Every single time I've tried to register on the site in the last week, it says its suffering from overload and I have to wait, and then it sits on that page forever.

Seems like it might be popular for some reason.

There's zero chance in hell the website was suffering from being over capacity at 7 AM on a Saturday morning.


Obama probably programmed it in BASIC.
 
2013-10-05 01:30:43 PM

DamnYankees: Either this or Masada


I love that wine!
 
2013-10-05 01:31:12 PM

Clutch2013: There was this show that would come on the Military channel that analyzed various commander's battle plans and moves. Stalingrad is the most interesting episode, because it reallys shows how the Germans just lost the plot so quickly. Towards the end, you almost feel sorry for Paulus, because in addition to the Russian winter decimating them, every move he makes gets thwarted either by the Russians or - more often - by Hitler being his usual delusional self.


Back in my college days, I had a printout of the Fifty-Something Ways Of How Hitler Lost The War. One of which was 'extemporaneous invasion of Russia after he sneezed all over the Barbarossa plans'.  Once you start reading about the war in the east, you kinda start wondering if that wasn't all that entirely false.
 
2013-10-05 01:31:58 PM

KarmicDisaster: DamnYankees: SamWaters: Obama needs to fix his website ASAP before the government is rebooted with everything but ObamaCare funded.   I see the House just voted to give all the furloughed workers backpay (paid vacation).

I agree with this. Every single time I've tried to register on the site in the last week, it says its suffering from overload and I have to wait, and then it sits on that page forever.

Seems like it might be popular for some reason.


Almost as if millions of Americans have no health insurance.
 
2013-10-05 01:33:41 PM

DamnYankees: Skleenar: Conservative humor.

I remember reading a 2010 column by Krugman, and he was talking about if we elect the GOP to Congress, it would be the biggest step backward for American governance in generations. I thought he was being hyperbolic. Turns out he was spot on.


I remember, right after they were elected, he wrote a column in which the first sentence was "This is going to be a disaster."  I knew he was going to be exactly right.
 
2013-10-05 01:39:07 PM
If the speaker were to move on a stopgap spending bill now, without conservative policy priorities attached, it would most likely pass with Republican and Democratic votes. But the ensuing Republican uproar - on and off Capitol Hill - would ensure that there would be no Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.

Which would be the end of the Republican Party.

Aides to Mr. Boehner, however, say the speaker has a clear vision of where he wants to end up in the current crisis, but is unwilling to lay out his goals until he has a Democratic partner with whom to negotiate.

As if anyone would negotiate with him, he can't deliver a pizza, let alone his caucus.
 
2013-10-05 01:53:24 PM
And like the Battle of Stalingrad, Stalingrad wasn't the original objective, the oilfields of the Caucusus were. he Wehrmacht until then had not ever been beaten, they excelled at mobile combined arms ('blitzkrieg'), and pointedly refused to get involved in urban combat.

Ending Obamacare = oilfields, Stalingrad = shutdown. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

The shutdown became the objective, now the GOP reps are wondering how the hell they ended up in Stalingrad in the first place.
 
2013-10-05 01:54:14 PM

Ambivalence: I finally RTFA and I was amused at the author trying to paint boehner as some stalwart champion, delaying the resolution of the shutdown fearing that now that the tea party has shot the nation in the ass over the budget, they may try and shoot the nation in the head over the debt ceiling if the shutdown is resolved too quickly.


The entire article about how Boehner was giving stress tips by 8 year Olds to fellow Republicans was weird.
 
2013-10-05 01:56:17 PM
At a White House meeting with the president this week, Mr. Boehner twice brought up quiet talks between Ms. Murray and Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, the House Budget Committee chairman, as a way to end the impasse with a broad budget deal. The third time, Mr. Reid laughed out loud.

"I couldn't take it any longer. I said: 'Stop it. They've met a few times and talked about nothing. The meetings were only for you, for show,' " Mr. Reid said.


...ouch.
 
2013-10-05 01:58:31 PM

StopLurkListen: And like the Battle of Stalingrad, Stalingrad wasn't the original objective, the oilfields of the Caucusus were. he Wehrmacht until then had not ever been beaten, they excelled at mobile combined arms ('blitzkrieg'), and pointedly refused to get involved in urban combat.

Ending Obamacare = oilfields, Stalingrad = shutdown. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

The shutdown became the objective, now the GOP reps are wondering how the hell they ended up in Stalingrad in the first place.


The Wehrmacht had been beaten the previous winter in the Battle of Moscow. I guess that's like the 2012 election.

Sarah Palin nomination = Beer Hall Putsch
2010 election = 1933 election
2011 debt ceiling = Steamrolling of France
2012 election = battle of moscow
Now = Stalingrad
 
2013-10-05 01:58:38 PM

DamnYankees: There's zero chance in hell the website was suffering from being over capacity at 7 AM on a Saturday morning.


Gah!
 
2013-10-05 01:58:54 PM

Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?


Only two posts to get this Godwinned. Good job!
 
2013-10-05 02:00:56 PM
"I do not believe he's primarily concerned with saving his speakership. He's concerned with saving the House Republican Conference," said Vin Weber, a former Republican House member who advises the current House leadership.

Ctrl-F for "saving the country"

Nothing.

Surprised, I am not.
 
2013-10-05 02:04:05 PM

SnapeShots: Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?

Only two posts to get this Godwinned. Good job!


It's not really a Godwin, in particular, when TFH explicitly references WWII history.
 
2013-10-05 02:04:20 PM

SnapeShots: Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?

Only two posts to get this Godwinned. Good job!


Pre-Godwinned thread.
 
2013-10-05 02:06:22 PM
May I humbly request the Senate rescinds the clean CR at the current level and submits a new one at pre-furlough levels. Fark them for nottaking the deal
 
2013-10-05 02:06:31 PM

SnapeShots: Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?

Only two posts to get this Godwinned. Good job!


OH THE HUMANITY!  A headline that directly reference WWII gets Godwinned!  WHAT ARE THE ODDS!  WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!
 
2013-10-05 02:07:14 PM

Bontesla: Anyone else catch that firs paragraph answer find it odd?????


When the media has repeatedly compared your behavior to children's tantrums, you can't just serve up a hanging curveball like that.
 
2013-10-05 02:09:39 PM

Im_Gumby: May I humbly request the Senate rescinds the clean CR at the current level and submits a new one at pre-furlough levels. Fark them for nottaking the deal


"Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally."
 
2013-10-05 02:10:16 PM
So this could be Shutdowngrad, then, an equivalent to the other side's -ghazi tag.
 
2013-10-05 02:11:33 PM

Im_Gumby: May I humbly request the Senate rescinds the clean CR at the current level and submits a new one at pre-furlough levels. Fark them for nottaking the deal


I like it.
 
2013-10-05 02:12:34 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Im_Gumby: May I humbly request the Senate rescinds the clean CR at the current level and submits a new one at pre-furlough levels. Fark them for nottaking the deal

"Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally."


Awesome quote.

+1
 
2013-10-05 02:13:49 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: I saw Boehner as more of a Helmuth Weidling myself. The Fuhrer is ranting in the bunker about how the shutdown will kill Obamacare all the while the Democrats are on the street to the Reagan Ranch.

If that allegory is too unsettling, we can try an other third of the Axis. Romneyshima and Ryansaki got nuked. But Emperor Reagan's dead, so there's nobody left to announce to the Tea Party Generals and the people that the war's over.

Maybe its too early for this, I think I need another Coke.


When do we get to that other third of the Axis story endings, with Ted Cruz and his female acquaintance Michelle Bachmann at a gas station?
 
2013-10-05 02:15:26 PM

DamnYankees: StopLurkListen: And like the Battle of Stalingrad, Stalingrad wasn't the original objective, the oilfields of the Caucusus were. he Wehrmacht until then had not ever been beaten, they excelled at mobile combined arms ('blitzkrieg'), and pointedly refused to get involved in urban combat.

Ending Obamacare = oilfields, Stalingrad = shutdown. "We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."

The shutdown became the objective, now the GOP reps are wondering how the hell they ended up in Stalingrad in the first place.

The Wehrmacht had been beaten the previous winter in the Battle of Moscow. I guess that's like the 2012 election.

Sarah Palin nomination = Beer Hall Putsch
2010 election = 1933 election
2011 debt ceiling = Steamrolling of France
2012 election = battle of moscow
Now = Stalingrad


I stand corrected. I should have instead said how the Wehrmacht 6th Army was completely destroyed.
 
2013-10-05 02:15:27 PM

12349876: SnapeShots: Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?

Only two posts to get this Godwinned. Good job!

OH THE HUMANITY!  A headline that directly reference WWII gets Godwinned!  WHAT ARE THE ODDS!  WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!


You know who else lost his shiat over discussions of the Battle of Stalingrad?
 
2013-10-05 02:18:45 PM

Crabs_Can_Polevault: foo monkey: Ambivalence: I do hope Pelosi's attempt to circumvent Boehner to pass a clean CR works. It would be deliciously ironic for republicans to depend on democrats to save us all from the crisis republicans created.

Would that be Operation Uranus?

Instantly brought this oldie but goodie to mind...

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 600x491]

Not mine, sadly.


My God, what was happening when that picture was taken?  That is awesome.
 
2013-10-05 02:18:57 PM
The Democrats ought to be dropping to their knees in gratitude for the shutdown. If not for that, the news media might have to cover the ongoing catastrophe that is the opening of Obamacare. Thanks, Republicans!
 
2013-10-05 02:21:00 PM

Dinki: So who is playing Hitler, screaming over the radio " The 6th Army will hold its positions to the last man and the last round."? Cantor? Limbaugh? The Kochs?


I think t means we shoult turn the Russian army loose on the GOP.
 
2013-10-05 02:21:59 PM

Bontesla: Ambivalence: I finally RTFA and I was amused at the author trying to paint boehner as some stalwart champion, delaying the resolution of the shutdown fearing that now that the tea party has shot the nation in the ass over the budget, they may try and shoot the nation in the head over the debt ceiling if the shutdown is resolved too quickly.

The entire article about how Boehner was giving stress tips by 8 year Olds to fellow Republicans was weird.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so.  What do 8 year old know about stress?
 
2013-10-05 02:23:54 PM

jjorsett: The Democrats ought to be dropping to their knees in gratitude for the shutdown. If not for that, the news media might have to cover the ongoing catastrophe that is the opening of Obamacare. Thanks, Republicans!


I kinda have to agree with this. Were it not for the ongoing political debacle all eyes would be on the ACA roll-out, and the comments would not be complimentary. In a certain sense, I think the repub decision to make the continuing resolution into an issue was in part due to a desire to draw attention away from the triumphant implementation of Obamacare. If they'd known what a mess it would turn out to be, they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of trying to undercut it this way. They're all probably kicking themselves right now...
 
2013-10-05 02:24:14 PM

Clutch2013: FormlessOne: Subby, I do have to say, that was a wonderful reference.

There was this show that would come on the Military channel that analyzed various commander's battle plans and moves. Stalingrad is the most interesting episode, because it reallys shows how the Germans just lost the plot so quickly. Towards the end, you almost feel sorry for Paulus, because in addition to the Russian winter decimating them, every move he makes gets thwarted either by the Russians or - more often - by Hitler being his usual delusional self.


Hitler damn near did as much to defeat the German army as the Russians.
 
2013-10-05 02:26:09 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Back in my college days, I had a printout of the Fifty-Something Ways Of How Hitler Lost The War.


The other big way he lost was by being so focused on marching into Paris that he let the allies escape from Dunkirk. In other words, symbolism over substance.

Republicans are so focused on defeating Obamacare that they don't realize all they're going to do is take us right back to 2008, and 2008 really sucked.
 
2013-10-05 02:28:56 PM

ImpendingCynic: Republicans are so focused on defeating Obamacare that they don't realize all they're going to do is take us right back to 2008, and 2008 really sucked.


And before anyone jumps all over me, I meant 2008 in general, not the fact that Obama was elected.
 
2013-10-05 02:29:18 PM

clambam: If they'd known what a mess it would turn out to be, they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of trying to undercut it this way.


The only people who think it's a mess are those who are reaching for straws trying to make something into a failure.
 
2013-10-05 02:32:11 PM
the longer this goes on

I doubt it--The past 5 years should have been the official death of the Republican party, but there are more than enough stupid spiteful Americans to put another Bush/Romney/McCain type administration into office in 2016.
 
2013-10-05 02:34:37 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Back in my college days, I had a printout of the Fifty-Something Ways Of How Hitler Lost The War.


Worst Paul Simon song ever.
 
2013-10-05 02:36:11 PM
With his troops anxious for a way forward, Speaker John A. Boehner began a closed-door meeting of House Republicans on Friday morning with a recitation of letters from local schoolchildren on how they deal with stress.

Clearly, he's taking advice from the people the GOP most identify with.
 
2013-10-05 02:37:01 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Crabs_Can_Polevault: foo monkey: Ambivalence: I do hope Pelosi's attempt to circumvent Boehner to pass a clean CR works. It would be deliciously ironic for republicans to depend on democrats to save us all from the crisis republicans created.

Would that be Operation Uranus?

Instantly brought this oldie but goodie to mind...

[lh5.googleusercontent.com image 600x491]

Not mine, sadly.

My God, what was happening when that picture was taken?  That is awesome.


I believe it was taken about the <i>last</i> time the Leaking Cheetoh took on the current administration and got snookered. I want to think it was around the Sequester, but I couldn't swear to that.

Admittedly, all I could remember were the expressions and captioning.
 
2013-10-05 02:38:23 PM

ImpendingCynic: The other big way he lost was by being so focused on marching into Paris that he let the allies escape from Dunkirk. In other words, symbolism over substance.


It was a humorous list, actually. 'Land war in Asia,' 'Lost the Ark to Indiana Jones,' 'Drunk dialed Tojo at the 3 in the morning daring him to attack the U.S.,' 'Forgot to leave Stalin a Dear Joey letter.'
 
2013-10-05 02:39:28 PM

God's Hubris: With his troops anxious for a way forward, Speaker John A. Boehner began a closed-door meeting of House Republicans on Friday morning with a recitation of letters from local schoolchildren on how they deal with stress.

Clearly, he's taking advice from the people the GOP most identify with.


Thread also over.
 
2013-10-05 02:39:46 PM
Once again, we are not going to have a 3rd party in this country.

People should be criticizing the Democrats for their refusal to fight for their policies, but there should be overwhelming support for what they're doing and utter condemnation for the Republican party, and frankly, possible calls for their disbanding as a political entity.

This is really the only way.
 
2013-10-05 02:39:52 PM

BMulligan: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Back in my college days, I had a printout of the Fifty-Something Ways Of How Hitler Lost The War.

Worst Paul Simon song ever.


Just drop off the key, Lee
And work makes you free
 
2013-10-05 02:39:58 PM

ImpendingCynic: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Back in my college days, I had a printout of the Fifty-Something Ways Of How Hitler Lost The War.

The other big way he lost was by being so focused on marching into Paris that he let the allies escape from Dunkirk. In other words, symbolism over substance.

Republicans are so focused on defeating Obamacare that they don't realize all they're going to do is take us right back to 2008, and 2008 really sucked.


That's my basic assessment.  Had he broken the English army at Dunkirk, the war would have turned out very differently.

But, enough threadjack.  On with more Boehner mockery.
 
2013-10-05 02:42:06 PM

HighOnCraic: BMulligan: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Back in my college days, I had a printout of the Fifty-Something Ways Of How Hitler Lost The War.

Worst Paul Simon song ever.

Just drop off the key, Lee
And work makes you free


Win.
 
2013-10-05 02:45:16 PM

Ambivalence: Bontesla: Ambivalence: I finally RTFA and I was amused at the author trying to paint boehner as some stalwart champion, delaying the resolution of the shutdown fearing that now that the tea party has shot the nation in the ass over the budget, they may try and shoot the nation in the head over the debt ceiling if the shutdown is resolved too quickly.

The entire article about how Boehner was giving stress tips by 8 year Olds to fellow Republicans was weird.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so.  What do 8 year old know about stress?


Well, children do actually have a much more difficult time dealing with stress because they don't have the capacity to do so. So minor issues at school or over toys  can be incredibly difficult for an eight-year-old to deal with.

But as I've said before, the Republicans aren't children, who actively learn about the world and want to join adult society. They aren't adults, either. They're the archetypial freaks of human memory.
 
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