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(WTKR)   Student says she had to prove she was Muslim to get student ID at school in a) Egypt, b) Iran, or c) Hampton University in Virginia?   (wtkr.com) divider line 98
    More: Asinine, Hampton University, Muslims, headscarfs, students  
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8176 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Oct 2013 at 2:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-05 01:55:44 PM  
So, headgear for the picture ID is banned, with exception of religious items. Not news.

She wears a head scarf. Also not news.

Is she a Muslim but not Middle Eastern enough? Possibly news.

There seems to be a school possibly in place, but she didn't follow the policy before trying to obtain the school id. Relevant?
Is the policy discriminatory? Possibly news.

Where's the rest of the story? The article didn't say why they didn't believe she was wearing the head scarf for religious purposes.
 
2013-10-05 02:04:45 PM  
They couldn't tell from the smell?
 
2013-10-05 02:09:27 PM  
Student says she had to prove she was Muslim to get student ID a special religious exemption from the rules at school
 
2013-10-05 02:10:04 PM  

johnnieconnie: Where's the rest of the story? The article didn't say why they didn't believe she was wearing the head scarf for religious purposes.


the impression I got was that everyone has to provide proof of their religious need if they want to wear something for the ID picture. she just decided to cry about it to the press.
 
2013-10-05 02:11:55 PM  
So she wanted an exemption for religious reasons, yet she didn't want to prove she was eligible for the exemption? Too damn bad.
 
2013-10-05 02:12:12 PM  
I wonder if there's been any prominent Muslim clerics who have tried to come up with a way to deal with picture ID requirements, like some kind of waiver.  Seems to me there's a compelling state interest in having picture ID where no part of the face is hidden (when I wore glasses I always had to take them off first).  There's no central Islamic authority other than the Koran itself, you'd think somebody out there had come up with a solution.
 
2013-10-05 02:13:23 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: They couldn't tell from the smell?


I thought you said you liked "ethnic food."
 
2013-10-05 02:14:02 PM  

Arkanaut: I wonder if there's been any prominent Muslim clerics who have tried to come up with a way to deal with picture ID requirements, like some kind of waiver.  Seems to me there's a compelling state interest in having picture ID where no part of the face is hidden (when I wore glasses I always had to take them off first).  There's no central Islamic authority other than the Koran itself, you'd think somebody out there had come up with a solution.


Not letting women out of the house.
 
2013-10-05 02:14:04 PM  
You know, I thought the headscarf was about modesty... isn't it pretty immodest to jump around telling people about your religion?
 
2013-10-05 02:14:11 PM  

Kyosuke: So she wanted an exemption for religious reasons, yet she didn't want to prove she was eligible for the exemption? Too damn bad.


Well, she thinks she shouldn't have to, but she clearly followed the rules and provided the paperwork.
 
2013-10-05 02:15:47 PM  
...so, we're going with this, but not the intimidation and harrassment of students who wore Jesus & Mo T-shirts at the London School of Economics?

Oh, wait, I forgot, they're atheists, so they don't have any rights.
 
2013-10-05 02:15:52 PM  
Melona Clarke

Oh, no wonder. She's not a real Muslim, but an AW convert. Go figure.
 
2013-10-05 02:16:50 PM  
Asinine tag is for the whining little girl, I assume.  Policy seems perfectly reasonable: you want a religious exemption from the rules, you should be prepared to prove you are part of that religion.
 
2013-10-05 02:17:49 PM  
Yeah, but you wouldn't believe what they make the jewish guys do to prove they're jewish...
 
2013-10-05 02:19:13 PM  

RedT: Yeah, but you wouldn't believe what they make the jewish guys do to prove they're jewish...


They throw a nickel on the floor and watch how long it takes them to dive for it?
 
2013-10-05 02:19:44 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Melona Clarke

Oh, no wonder. She's not a real Muslim, but an AW convert. Go figure.


So, remember, kiddies: Unless you have a name that sounds furrin, you can't be a dirty Mooslim.
 
2013-10-05 02:19:51 PM  
Poor baby; she couldn't just say she was Muslim; so she wouldn't have to take off her magic head hanky.
 
2013-10-05 02:20:03 PM  
one of the more misleading headlines i've seen...
 
2013-10-05 02:20:16 PM  

IkilledLauraPalmer: Arkanaut: I wonder if there's been any prominent Muslim clerics who have tried to come up with a way to deal with picture ID requirements, like some kind of waiver.  Seems to me there's a compelling state interest in having picture ID where no part of the face is hidden (when I wore glasses I always had to take them off first).  There's no central Islamic authority other than the Koran itself, you'd think somebody out there had come up with a solution.

Not letting women out of the house.


Heh.  Yeah, I guess that is probably the answer for a lot of clerics.  Although that makes one wonder if there's a philosophical equivalent to the eruv in Islam...
 
2013-10-05 02:21:11 PM  
"You mean you'll let me break the school rules, but you insist that I provide you with documentation!?  Help, I'm being oppressed!"
 
2013-10-05 02:21:13 PM  

RedT: Yeah, but you wouldn't believe what they make the jewish guys do to prove they're jewish...


Show a picture of their mom?
 
2013-10-05 02:24:13 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: RedT: Yeah, but you wouldn't believe what they make the jewish guys do to prove they're jewish...

They throw a nickel on the floor and watch how long it takes them to dive for it?


See if they weigh the same as a duck ?
 
2013-10-05 02:24:15 PM  
I can still wear my colander as a devout Pastafarian, right?
 
2013-10-05 02:25:06 PM  
This is a university, not a junior high school. The dress code should be "don't be a public nuisance."
 
2013-10-05 02:25:26 PM  
I'm not seeing an issue here... when I was in a wheelchair as a young kid, I had to prove the medical necessity (with a note from my doctor) even though I showed up in a friggin' wheelchair.
 
2013-10-05 02:25:53 PM  
shiat, I bet I'm going to have a problem there. This is our religous geadgear. The gods love it and it's great if you get hungry.

www.wnyc.org
 
2013-10-05 02:26:30 PM  

RedT: Yeah, but you wouldn't believe what they make the jewish guys do to prove they're jewish...


Ask them to make a charitable donation without getting a receipt for their taxes?
 
2013-10-05 02:27:24 PM  

Chinchillazilla: I can still wear my colander as a devout Pastafarian, right?


Only if you wear an eyepatch too.

/ possibly a "have you been touched by his noodlie appendage?" shirt
 
2013-10-05 02:28:56 PM  
Heres yer ID Missy...

i.imgur.com


/Now how about you Christian ladies abide by yer religion and start wearing hats, at all times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_headcovering
Christian headcovering is the veiling of the head by women in a variety of Christian traditions. Some cover only in public worship, while others believe they should cover their heads all the time. The Biblical basis for headcoverings is found in 1 Corinthians 11.[1] Some appeal to custom as the basis for their practice. Most contemporary Christians, however, do not practice headcovering.
 
2013-10-05 02:31:53 PM  
In other news of the month:
Judges ban women from testifying while wearing a full face Burka. Judges and all in the court say they don't know if the person testifying or being prosecuted is actually the person of a certain name.

This leads to interesting articles, that all people testifying in court should wear a veil to prevent facial/color bias by the jury.
 
2013-10-05 02:36:49 PM  
What's the point of getting your picture taken for an ID card if you cover your face with a scarf?
 
2013-10-05 02:38:17 PM  

dywed88: Student says she had to prove she was Muslim to get student ID a special religious exemption from the rules at school


Religious exemption should be religious, not cultural.  You came to the US to gain the education from American schools and American life.  God(or Allah, who cares, you're referencing the same deity) forbid you pick up some of the enlightened attitudes about the role of women in society and the ability for women to shed their outer coverings and be free with their sexuality without being criminalized for it.  With limited exceptions, women who are raped and seek prosecution tend to find it in the States, whereas in the middle east, they tend to be sent to jail, if they're lucky, for "letting" men rape them, because, of course, it's "their fault."

/castration for rapists
//been accused myself, but everyone knew how batshiat crazy she was, and my computer logs provided a legit alibi
///so I traveled 200 miles in less than an hour, raped her, then traveled the same 200 miles in what time was left in the window of opportunity, and I don't have access to a car ... yup, sounds legit to me
////back away slowly, there, Lou; the crazy is strong with this one.
 
2013-10-05 02:38:21 PM  

sheep snorter: Heres yer ID Missy...

[i.imgur.com image 468x331]


/Now how about you Christian ladies abide by yer religion and start wearing hats, at all times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_headcovering
Christian headcovering is the veiling of the head by women in a variety of Christian traditions. Some cover only in public worship, while others believe they should cover their heads all the time. The Biblical basis for headcoverings is found in 1 Corinthians 11.[1] Some appeal to custom as the basis for their practice. Most contemporary Christians, however, do not practice headcovering.


here's an OLD-SCHOOL Shaker couple that comes into my store. She goes as far as wearing one of those little doily things on her head bun. I think it's cute in an "aw, granny" way.
 
2013-10-05 02:39:14 PM  
You know, if you can't distinguish a Muslim\Christian headwrap from some brat trying to cover their face, you just might be a farking moron.

Just sayin'.
 
2013-10-05 02:40:58 PM  

sheep snorter: Heres yer ID Missy...

[i.imgur.com image 468x331]



That's not what they were talking about in TFA and because we are now deviating from the subject matter:
www.piccer.nl
 
2013-10-05 02:45:24 PM  
why do some people think that an omniscient god gives a crap what they wear on their head?

oh wait, because it is some bullshiat men thought up.
 
2013-10-05 02:51:12 PM  

Arkanaut: IkilledLauraPalmer: Arkanaut: I wonder if there's been any prominent Muslim clerics who have tried to come up with a way to deal with picture ID requirements, like some kind of waiver.  Seems to me there's a compelling state interest in having picture ID where no part of the face is hidden (when I wore glasses I always had to take them off first).  There's no central Islamic authority other than the Koran itself, you'd think somebody out there had come up with a solution.

Not letting women out of the house.

Heh.  Yeah, I guess that is probably the answer for a lot of clerics.  Although that makes one wonder if there's a philosophical equivalent to the eruv in Islam...


Picture ID:
You are aware that most muslim women don't cover their face right?
Some airports in Muslim countries have screening rooms where IF a women covers her face can go into if she does not want to uncover her face in public. I saw this in Saudi Arabia when I went for Hajj.

Eruv:
Not as far as I know.
To me, everything in religion makes sense and follows logic. If I am supposed to fast for a month, I'm sure it is for my benefit, both spiritually and physically.
Clearly believing in an element of religion then purposefully seeking loopholes within it does not make sense to me.*

*see many elements of "modern Islamic financing"
 
2013-10-05 02:58:26 PM  
Student says she had to prove she was Muslim to get student ID


I don't see why this is a big deal, they just want to ensure that they get the correct labels on the ID card

img.fark.net
 
2013-10-05 03:01:08 PM  

sheep snorter: Heres yer ID Missy...

[i.imgur.com image 468x331]


/Now how about you Christian ladies abide by yer religion and start wearing hats, at all times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_headcovering
Christian headcovering is the veiling of the head by women in a variety of Christian traditions. Some cover only in public worship, while others believe they should cover their heads all the time. The Biblical basis for headcoverings is found in 1 Corinthians 11.[1] Some appeal to custom as the basis for their practice. Most contemporary Christians, however, do not practice headcovering.




Sluts.
 
2013-10-05 03:01:19 PM  
Oh, and how does one go about 'Proving' one is Muslim?

I'm kinda sure they don't give out membership cards in the neighborhood Mosques.
There is no 'authority' in the US as far as I know.

Letter of recommendation from mosque's cleric?
What if she doesn't go to one? (You don't 'belong' to a mosque in Islam).

I actually met a Muslim who had read up on Islam and converted all on his own.
Who should he have gone to for certification?


/question is mostly directed to all the people here who say she should have provided proof instead of whining to the media.
//i am aware that some countries have religion in their passport.
///'slashies'
 
2013-10-05 03:03:10 PM  
"In order to wear the hijab, or the head scarf many Muslim women choose to wear, Clarke was told she not only had to get a letter from the school chaplain but her mosque.
NewsChannel 3 took a look at the school's dress code and it shows, "caps and hoods for women" are not allowed, but that "does not apply to headgear considered as a part of religious or cultural dress."
But there is a separate policy in order to wear the religious headgear stating students, "May make a written request for a review through the Office of the Chaplain," and "students who are approved will then have their new ID card picture taken."

 
Hmm...unless they missed something, I don't see a rule about the person having to get a permission note from their own religious leaders. Perhaps the school overstepped it's bounds there and/or the school needs to clarify its policy to avoid any future misunderstandings.

Anyway, welcome to the real world, kid. These things happen.
 
2013-10-05 03:04:53 PM  
Head coverings and ID don't mix well. And don't get me started with burkas.

If you want to cover yourself, understand things won't be easy for you.

Also, covering yourself isn't even in the Koran.
 
2013-10-05 03:06:23 PM  
You know what amuses me, if she wants to take the hajj, she'll have to provide written permission from her closest male relative or she can't go to Mecca. She will have to carry those travel permissions with her when she travels to an Islamic nation for her religious pilgrimage.

Meanwhile she's carrying that shiat with her now and no one has asked for it. She merely had to provide it to the chaplain's office for her school ID exemption. It's also a private black university, a dress code isn't shocking.
 
2013-10-05 03:07:58 PM  

saintstryfe: You know, I thought the headscarf was about modesty... isn't it pretty immodest to jump around telling people about your religion?


Unless you're Jesus Jumping H. Christ on a pogo stick.

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-05 03:08:11 PM  

FatherDale: This is a university, not a junior high school. The dress code should be "don't be a public nuisance."


Hahahaha. Not so much here. They tend to baby the undergrads a lot here, treating them like children the majority of the time - complete with not allowing guys and girls together in dorms and a curfew (at least for freshmen when I was here as a summer researcher in undergrad). The dress code is actually quite lengthy, though I can't remember everything in it, because as a grad student, nobody is going to enforce it unless I show up in a bikini, and I don't own too many objectionable outfits. Well, that and I already stand out in a crowd around here, and I suspect not everyone believes I'm a student. For the record, it is listed in the rulebook that to wear a head covering that you have to get it cleared with the university first.

Also, if this is her only issue thusfar with the university, I'm jealous. They've screwed up my DOB, my address a half dozen times or so, my financial aid paperwork, and been late by a week in paying me my stipend twice, and I've only been here 13 months as a grad student. *grumble* Oh, and they had three different variations on my name on my acceptance letter/envelope/tiny info packet.

I have heard way sillier complaints, though. Like the father I overheard while trying to fix my address for the 6th or 7th time complaining that his daughter should be considered a junior and allowed to have a car on campus, and that the registrar should do something about that, since it's her third year. I think the woman talking to him told him at least three times that she just didn't have the credits for junior standing.
 
2013-10-05 03:13:09 PM  

cc_rider: Hmm...unless they missed something, I don't see a rule about the person having to get a permission note from their own religious leaders. Perhaps the school overstepped it's bounds there and/or the school needs to clarify its policy to avoid any future misunderstandings.


It's a private HBCU. They pretty much can do whatever they want. Hell, they block websites to "open source" software, in addition to a variety of others, like fml and anything that might be considered "adult" material. Including in the dormitories. They also partially block websites for sporting goods stores because weapons.
 
2013-10-05 03:19:06 PM  
How many infidels did she end up taking out?
 
2013-10-05 03:19:49 PM  

EkimProx: Head coverings and ID don't mix well. And don't get me started with burkas.

If you want to cover yourself, understand things won't be easy for you.

Also, covering yourself isn't even in the Koran.


Maybe not, but it sure as shiat makes it a lot less likely you'll be assaulted/killed by your relatives or charged with prostitution by the religious police
 
2013-10-05 03:26:11 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: cc_rider: Hmm...unless they missed something, I don't see a rule about the person having to get a permission note from their own religious leaders. Perhaps the school overstepped it's bounds there and/or the school needs to clarify its policy to avoid any future misunderstandings.

It's a private HBCU. They pretty much can do whatever they want. Hell, they block websites to "open source" software, in addition to a variety of others, like fml and anything that might be considered "adult" material. Including in the dormitories. They also partially block websites for sporting goods stores because weapons.




Wow.

I guess baseball bats and hockey sticks. Wait a sec.

Don't prison inmates make weapons out of toothbrushes?
 
2013-10-05 03:26:41 PM  

Luthien's Tempest: cc_rider: Hmm...unless they missed something, I don't see a rule about the person having to get a permission note from their own religious leaders. Perhaps the school overstepped it's bounds there and/or the school needs to clarify its policy to avoid any future misunderstandings.

It's a private HBCU. They pretty much can do whatever they want. Hell, they block websites to "open source" software, in addition to a variety of others, like fml and anything that might be considered "adult" material. Including in the dormitories. They also partially block websites for sporting goods stores because weapons.


I've heard about issues with the dress code at this particular school before, but this isn't a religious-based university, and I do believe that federal laws regarding freedom of religion would trump their dress code.

The idea of having to get a note from a particular mosque to "prove" you are a Muslim seems a bit out of line to me. Sounds a textbook case for the ACLU.
 
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