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(Slate)   When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine and stand up to the GOP?   (slate.com) divider line 182
    More: Interesting, Delaware Democratic Party, GOP, Democrats, humans, Rep. Jim McDermott, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, health insurance mandate, Democratic Coalition  
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4337 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Oct 2013 at 1:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-05 03:49:57 PM  
The Democrats know they will likely face a GOP house majority at least until 2022. The GOP has made it clear that they will use every budget vote and debt ceiling limit vote to demand large and unrelated concessions, essentially running the country from a slim majority of one half of congress, regardless of Senate majorities or who sits in the White House. The Democrats can either stand firm today or concede the next decade of policy to the far right tea party.
 
2013-10-05 03:50:14 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Hobodeluxe: yeah but that's the point. they claim he won't negotiate. but he's not asking for anything, so he makes a list of demands of his own and then the ball is in their court. they can't accuse him of not being willing to negotiate then. Then he has demands that he's willing to concede if they will drop their demands :)

He shouldn't negotiate.  He shouldn't draw up an opposing list of demands and justify their behavior by engaging in it.  He should do exactly what he is doing (I believe this is the first time I've ever said that about President Milquetoast) and refuse to interact with them on any level where the situation is framed as a negotiation.  The proper response is to say "we do not negotiate with terrorists", and oppose the tactic at its source.


nah I think their heads would asplode. their only tactic now is saying "he wont negotiate"  and while it's not really gaining any traction despite the media repeating it w/o questioning it's validity it would not only put them in an awkward spot but demonstrate to them that 1. two can play your little game and 2. just how undemocratic it is for them to do this. He can do this and explain to the public why. It exposes their extortion for what it is. they can't cry foul when he's using their tactics.
 
2013-10-05 03:51:28 PM  

Target Builder: The Democrats know they will likely face a GOP house majority at least until 2022. The GOP has made it clear that they will use every budget vote and debt ceiling limit vote to demand large and unrelated concessions, essentially running the country from a slim majority of one half of congress, regardless of Senate majorities or who sits in the White House. The Democrats can either stand firm today or concede the next decade of policy to the far right tea party.


And this is why they're united.  They perceive themselves, and the country, on the edge of a cliff over an abyss that can never be climbed out of.

The GOP is doomed.
 
2013-10-05 04:01:51 PM  

Infernalist: The GOP is doomed.


I'd love to believe you. Unfortunately, Americans are not ready to embrace any sort of system of progressivism. They want the Lie of the American Dream, and they would vote for it again.
 
2013-10-05 04:06:17 PM  

Weaver95: the GOP talking point about this being all Obama's fault is still being pushed by the rank and file...but I see it getting destroyed over and over and over on facebook by people who normally avoid politics like the plague.  I'm not sure what to think about that development....


That's about the only point I'll engage people on right now. I have a lot of Conservative/Christian friends whose opinions differ markedly from mine. These are good people whom I otherwise genuinely like, so I try not to point out how wrong they are, but the minute the shutdown gets blamed on Obama...ugh.

Regardless of your political leanings, the shutdown is squarely and objectively Congress's fault. Legally, the President can't do anything until some sort of a bill makes it to his desk. On this point there can be no debate. READ YOUR GODDAMN POCKET CONSTITUTIONS, PEOPLE!!1!

Sorry. Sometimes I can't help myself.
 
2013-10-05 04:06:30 PM  

Hobodeluxe: they can't cry foul when he's using their tactics.


Have you been in a coma since Jan 20, 2009?  All they want in the world is for him to sink to their level.  It does nothing but legitimizes their behavior, and accomplishes nothing else.  It's an awful idea.
 
2013-10-05 04:06:33 PM  

whidbey: Infernalist: The GOP is doomed.

I'd love to believe you. Unfortunately, Americans are not ready to embrace any sort of system of progressivism. They want the Lie of the American Dream, and they would vote for it again.


Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?
 
2013-10-05 04:10:15 PM  

whidbey: When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine and stand up to the GOP?


Or more like why is Slate writing a fluff piece on the Democrats?

And as long as there is still a shutdown, there's no indication the Democrats are fighting for shiat.


Huh?  That's like saying it's the bottom of the seventh inning and Team A is up by 12 points over Team B and you're sitting in the stands saying, "as long as they're still on field, there's no indication Team A is fighting for shiat".
The only way the shutdown ends is if enough Democrats agree to defund Obamacare or enough Republicans agree to fund Obamacare. Which do you think is going to happen?
 
2013-10-05 04:10:42 PM  

Target Builder: whidbey: Infernalist: The GOP is doomed.

I'd love to believe you. Unfortunately, Americans are not ready to embrace any sort of system of progressivism. They want the Lie of the American Dream, and they would vote for it again.

Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?


Let me guess: Help help you are being oppressed.
 
2013-10-05 04:10:53 PM  
Republicans also gave the Dems no reason not to fight.  Kill bin Laden?  The GOP is outraged .  Get Russia to destroy Syria's chemical weapons?  The GOP is outraged.  Pass a bill that could create job?   The GOP is outraged.  If everything you do results in a GOP is outrage then you may as well stand and fight because negotiations and giving a little to get a little has no value.
 
2013-10-05 04:11:58 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: Mad Tea Party: If they had any kind of a spine, they'd be pushing for single-payer instead of a rebranded Romneycare.

If Obamacare fails a few years from now, yet millions of people DO get health insurance for a time, we may see a push for exactly that.

/ I have no idea how we would handle the shrinking of the health insurance industry
// IIRC, it's 16% of our GDP; lots of laid off salespeople & office workers in the future, I think..
/// still, I'll play the world's tiniest violin for corporations like Cigna and UnitedHealth


Sadly we'll probably wrap Cigna and UnitedHealth into it. We will hire them both as contractors to devise the singlepayer system. They will make it complicated and obtuse, in much the same way IBM,etc did when they were no longer singlehandedly running our federal computer systems. Over time things will be wenched back from them, but it will take a long long time,
 
2013-10-05 04:13:23 PM  

Target Builder: Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?


Part-time minimum-wage for flipping burgers, and going home to a shiatty apartment that's barely weatherproof where the heat doesn't work? Yeah, he's entitled to that. If he happens to look around and realize "Hey, I'm getting screwed here!" then he's an un-American socialist.

Getting cancer in the US means bankruptcy unless you're wealthy. We're the only first-world country where this is true.
 
2013-10-05 04:13:50 PM  

Muta: Republicans also gave the Dems no reason not to fight.  Kill bin Laden?  The GOP is outraged .  Get Russia to destroy Syria's chemical weapons?  The GOP is outraged.  Pass a bill that could create job?   The GOP is outraged.  If everything you do results in a GOP is outrage then you may as well stand and fight because negotiations and giving a little to get a little has no value.


Of course. They want to be the party in power. Everything is going to "outrage" them.
 
2013-10-05 04:14:00 PM  

Muta: Republicans also gave the Dems no reason not to fight.  Kill bin Laden?  The GOP is outraged .  Get Russia to destroy Syria's chemical weapons?  The GOP is outraged.  Pass a bill that could create job?   The GOP is outraged.  If everything you do results in a GOP is outrage then you may as well stand and fight because negotiations and giving a little to get a little has no value.


THIS
 
2013-10-05 04:16:35 PM  

eddiesocket: The only way the shutdown ends is if enough Democrats agree to defund Obamacare or enough Republicans agree to fund Obamacare. Which do you think is going to happen?


The cynic in me is going with "defunding Obamacare" no matter how Constitutionally-protected or how overwhelmingly it was voted into law.

I'd be real surprised if the Republicans backed down. The propaganda is just too effective.
 
2013-10-05 04:20:08 PM  

whidbey: eddiesocket: The only way the shutdown ends is if enough Democrats agree to defund Obamacare or enough Republicans agree to fund Obamacare. Which do you think is going to happen?

The cynic in me is going with "defunding Obamacare" no matter how Constitutionally-protected or how overwhelmingly it was voted into law.

I'd be real surprised if the Republicans backed down. The propaganda is just too effective.


All you need is 17 Republicans to pass a clean CR, and there are already indications that there are more than enough members willing to do this.  The question is whether Boehner will crack or if Obama will somehow give up his signature piece of legislation and legacy.  I'm betting the drunk will fold first.
 
2013-10-05 04:28:05 PM  

Target Builder: The Democrats know they will likely face a GOP house majority at least until 2022. The GOP has made it clear that they will use every budget vote and debt ceiling limit vote to demand large and unrelated concessions, essentially running the country from a slim majority of one half of congress, regardless of Senate majorities or who sits in the White House. The Democrats can either stand firm today or concede the next decade of policy to the far right tea party.


It's not just a decade of policy.
It's worse than that.
The Democrats recognize that the Republicans are attempting to subvert the democratic process upon which the USA was founded. The Republican's attempt at extortion is only the most recent and widely publicized move on the Republican's part. It will and must be rejected.

Some of their other tactics are the purging of voter lists, the voter ID laws, limiting polling hours and days, the Redmap gerrymandering project, the assault on unions, it's a long list.

During the last Presidential election even the most neutral of observers in the press were shaking their heads over the sheer audacity and frequency of lies told by the Republican candidates and that goes on to this day, supported by the well funded propaganda arm of the GOP which is Fox News.

Fortunately for America, the GOP's base includes the fundamentalist religious right and the radical, bat shiat crazy Tea Bagger movement (lots of overlap) and those guys don't know how to be patient or subtle. Their attempt to use extortion to dictate policy is obvious and their willingness to hurt Americans and lie about what they are doing is ridiculously transparent. They have made a huge error in attempting such a blatant move to overthrow the democratic process. It will be a huge set back for them, and it may prove to be their undoing.
 
2013-10-05 04:33:28 PM  

Hobodeluxe: Obama should say, you know what? I'm not going to sign any provisions to keep the govt open or to extend the debt limit until I get single payer/medicare for all. Tighter regulations on Wall st. And a 3% capital gains tax increase. Now mr Boehner are you ready to negotiate?


My opinion as well. The Democrats need to make their own counter offer. Want to get rid of Obamacare? Sure. In exchange for a Single Payer system. So far the Republicans have offered zero concessions for their demands. It's time to ask for one - the only one Dems should ever accept.
 
2013-10-05 04:34:43 PM  
Really superb research by James Carville (AKA The Snake) and company about who makes up the GOP and what's tearing it apart from the inside. Well worth the read (links to PDF): http://www.democracycorps.com/attachments/article/954/dcor%20rpp%20fg % 20memo%20100313%20final.pdf
 
2013-10-05 04:36:11 PM  

whidbey: eddiesocket: The only way the shutdown ends is if enough Democrats agree to defund Obamacare or enough Republicans agree to fund Obamacare. Which do you think is going to happen?

The cynic in me is going with "defunding Obamacare" no matter how Constitutionally-protected or how overwhelmingly it was voted into law.

I'd be real surprised if the Republicans backed down. The propaganda is just too effective.


Jesus, man. What propaganda? There's zero indication that the Dems have any intention of backing down. It absolutely won't happen. You really think Obama will sign a bill that kills his signature legislation?  Never. It will literally never happen.  Meanwhile, the Republicans have been flailing wildly all week, and despite the media's best efforts to say "both sides are bad", most people know this is all the Republican's fault.
 
2013-10-05 04:44:14 PM  

eddiesocket: whidbey: eddiesocket: The only way the shutdown ends is if enough Democrats agree to defund Obamacare or enough Republicans agree to fund Obamacare. Which do you think is going to happen?

The cynic in me is going with "defunding Obamacare" no matter how Constitutionally-protected or how overwhelmingly it was voted into law.

I'd be real surprised if the Republicans backed down. The propaganda is just too effective.

Jesus, man. What propaganda? There's zero indication that the Dems have any intention of backing down. It absolutely won't happen. You really think Obama will sign a bill that kills his signature legislation?  Never. It will literally never happen.  Meanwhile, the Republicans have been flailing wildly all week, and despite the media's best efforts to say "both sides are bad", most people know this is all the Republican's fault.


I'd really like to think so.

But to discount that the right-wing hasn't spent shiatloads of time and money on discrediting Obamacare, or really, any governmentally-mandated health care system, is a bit lacking on your part. The fact is that mainstream America thinks they're centrist when they say shiat like the government is "forcing" people to buy health care.
 
2013-10-05 04:48:22 PM  

whidbey: eddiesocket: The only way the shutdown ends is if enough Democrats agree to defund Obamacare or enough Republicans agree to fund Obamacare. Which do you think is going to happen?

The cynic in me is going with "defunding Obamacare" no matter how Constitutionally-protected or how overwhelmingly it was voted into law.

I'd be real surprised if the Republicans backed down. The propaganda is just too effective.


The teabaggers and their minions are a minority except in their gerrymandered, mostly-white and conservative districts. They do not represent the majority of Americans, or even the majority of Congress.

They can stomp and whine and hold their breath until they turn blue, but I believe the moderates will cave soon enough. We don't legislate by extortion, and we will not be terrorized by the Republican Taliban.
 
2013-10-05 04:51:16 PM  

cc_rider: whidbey: eddiesocket: The only way the shutdown ends is if enough Democrats agree to defund Obamacare or enough Republicans agree to fund Obamacare. Which do you think is going to happen?

The cynic in me is going with "defunding Obamacare" no matter how Constitutionally-protected or how overwhelmingly it was voted into law.

I'd be real surprised if the Republicans backed down. The propaganda is just too effective.

The teabaggers and their minions are a minority except in their gerrymandered, mostly-white and conservative districts. They do not represent the majority of Americans, or even the majority of Congress.

They can stomp and whine and hold their breath until they turn blue, but I believe the moderates will cave soon enough. We don't legislate by extortion, and we will not be terrorized by the Republican Taliban.


I honestly have trouble believing that a good half (or more) of this country believes we're being "terrorized" by such socially-backward ideology.

They almost voted in that shiat last November, and we're going to have the same bullshiat again, with higher stakes than last time.
 
2013-10-05 04:59:37 PM  

cc_rider: the moderates will cave soon enough


Yep.

Remember in late 2008 when the real estate bubble popped, and we couldn't even pretend everything was fine anymore? The teabagger bubble has just about reached maximum diameter and minimum thickness.

I assumed the moderate revolt was going to happen after 5PM EDT yesterday. I'm a little surprised it didn't. It's going to happen, though, otherwise (debt ceiling) the world ends as we know it. That bubble just can't take any more hot air.
 
2013-10-05 05:03:29 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: The teabagger bubble has just about reached maximum diameter and minimum thickness.


As long as taxation is still regarded as "theft," the 2nd Amendment is still given ridiculous amounts of face time, as long as there is constant biatching about "spending" "debt ceiling" "15 trillion dollar deficit" ETC, I really hate to break it to you but there is no danger of Tea Party style ideology losing ground in this country.

I really wonder where you got your impression that we're becoming more of a liberal society.
 
2013-10-05 05:03:47 PM  
Whatever "spine" was created in the last year is too little, too late.  If the blue-dog Democrats had a spine or the realization that they were one-term congressmen AT BEST, then we could have had our single-payer plan too and other reforms.  Next time the Democrats get a hold of all three branches we better not pull this "appease everyone" or we will be back to the same old stuff we have how.
 
2013-10-05 05:05:52 PM  

marcand: If the blue-dog Democrats had a spine or the realization that they were one-term congressmen AT BEST, then we could have had our single-payer plan too and other reforms


It wouldn't be democracy. The sad fact is that they are old skool Democrats from the South, or frustratingly conservative Democrats like Carl Levin from the North.

The Blue Dogs will continue as long as we have conservatives who vote them in.
 
2013-10-05 05:08:02 PM  

red5ish: Their attempt to use extortion to dictate policy is obvious and their willingness to hurt Americans and lie about what they are doing is ridiculously transparent. They have made a huge error in attempting such a blatant move to overthrow the democratic process. It will be a huge set back for them, and it may prove to be their undoing.


Nope.

The people who still vote GOP in this day and age are retards. They're just too stupid to see how bad the GOP is for the US. No matter what the GOP does the retards will keep on voting for them. They'll blame the libs when the GOP politics bites them in the ass. This is no longer politics; it's tribalism.

IMHO, of course.
 
2013-10-05 05:09:10 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: I assumed the moderate revolt was going to happen after 5PM EDT yesterday. I'm a little surprised it didn't. It's going to happen, though, otherwise (debt ceiling) the world ends as we know it. That bubble just can't take any more hot air.

img707.imageshack.us
img20.imageshack.us
 
2013-10-05 05:10:53 PM  

whidbey: I really wonder where you got your impression that we're becoming more of a liberal society.


Interesting takeaway. Where did I say that?

There were Republicans (even modern Republicans) and conservatives around long before there were teabaggers. They'll be around after the bubble pops too. It's specifically the teabaggers that are thiiiiis close to losing their credibility and being written off as paranoid, stupid nutjobs we should be ignoring.
 
2013-10-05 05:13:31 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: whidbey: I really wonder where you got your impression that we're becoming more of a liberal society.

Interesting takeaway. Where did I say that?

There were Republicans (even modern Republicans) and conservatives around long before there were teabaggers. They'll be around after the bubble pops too. It's specifically the teabaggers that are thiiiiis close to losing their credibility and being written off as paranoid, stupid nutjobs we should be ignoring.


I dunno. Maybe I'm just hungover or something, but I would like to believe that more than I am right now. I think we're headed for Hell, and people seem to want it.
 
2013-10-05 05:23:28 PM  

whidbey: Fuggin Bizzy: whidbey: I really wonder where you got your impression that we're becoming more of a liberal society.

Interesting takeaway. Where did I say that?

There were Republicans (even modern Republicans) and conservatives around long before there were teabaggers. They'll be around after the bubble pops too. It's specifically the teabaggers that are thiiiiis close to losing their credibility and being written off as paranoid, stupid nutjobs we should be ignoring.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just hungover or something, but I would like to believe that more than I am right now. I think we're headed for Hell, and people seem to want it.


We may still have to live with their scumbaggery for a short time, but look at the total votes in the last election, and note which party most of 'em went to. This is the "Custer's Last Stand" of the angry White conservatives and they know that even at this point, they have to resort to gerrymandering and vote suppression to win elections. They know they're toast, in a country where the demographics and values are changing, and this is just a sad attempt to take as many down with them as they can.

http://www.occupydemocrats.com/meet-80-republicans-signed-letter-beg gi ng-gov-shutdown-video/
 
2013-10-05 05:25:38 PM  

Uncle Tractor: Nope.


While I concede the merits of your argument I think the House Republicans may have stirred up enough anger to get moderates to vote against them, and with every day of the shutdown more will become angry.
 
2013-10-05 05:26:16 PM  
Mad Tea Party * * Smartest * Funniest 2013-10-05 01:33:38 PM If they had any kind of a spine, they'd be pushing for single-payer instead of a rebranded Romneycare.
====================================================

It's a wonderful albeit small step in the right direction and a HELL of a lot better than the status-quo. I'll take it for now.

We can fight that battle some other day.
 
2013-10-05 05:28:22 PM  

Darth Macho: They might as well hold up those signs from 'They Live' with a message like, "HATE OBAMA: NO SPECIFIC REASON".


Perfect!
 
2013-10-05 05:36:19 PM  

whidbey: Infernalist: The GOP is doomed.

I'd love to believe you. Unfortunately, Americans are not ready to embrace any sort of system of progressivism. They want the Lie of the American Dream, and they would vote for it again.


Demographically, the R(ape) party is on the way out. They're literally dying off, and not being replaced. It's just a matter of time before they are solely a regional minority annoyance. Thank fsm.
 
2013-10-05 05:42:25 PM  

whidbey: Fuggin Bizzy: The teabagger bubble has just about reached maximum diameter and minimum thickness.

As long as taxation is still regarded as "theft," the 2nd Amendment is still given ridiculous amounts of face time, as long as there is constant biatching about "spending" "debt ceiling" "15 trillion dollar deficit" ETC, republicans can get away with accusing democrats of taking money from hard working white Christians and giving it to blah people,  I really hate to break it to you but there is no danger of Tea Party style ideology losing ground in this country.

I really wonder where you got your impression that we're becoming more of a liberal society.


Sorry, just wanted to cut through the minutia and get at the heart of what you were dancing around
 
2013-10-05 05:43:33 PM  

Evil High Priest: whidbey: Infernalist: The GOP is doomed.

I'd love to believe you. Unfortunately, Americans are not ready to embrace any sort of system of progressivism. They want the Lie of the American Dream, and they would vote for it again.

Demographically, the R(ape) party is on the way out. They're literally dying off, and not being replaced. It's just a matter of time before they are solely a regional minority annoyance. Thank fsm.


This is not a repeat from 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, and 2012.
 
2013-10-05 05:45:39 PM  
I blame the moderate Republicans for all this.

I have so many Republicans friends and family members who complain "the liberal media portrays all Republicans like they're all extremist fundamentalists!"  So here's the GOP acting completely insane, holding the country hostage, and where are the moderates? They're silent.

Those that do speak up offer little more than a half-assed "Both sides are bad" defense. fark em. They're no better than the teatards, and they're just as responsible, if not more, for this clusterfark.
 
2013-10-05 05:46:37 PM  

super_grass: This is not a repeat from 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, and 2012.


There have been a lot of them and some of them get surprisingly old on the bacon-and-cigarette diet. And early in that timeline of yours, they were being replaced.
 
2013-10-05 05:48:08 PM  
Democrats to GOP: Go fark your selves sideways.

Come back when you're ready to do your jobs.
 
2013-10-05 05:49:33 PM  

super_grass: Evil High Priest: whidbey: Infernalist: The GOP is doomed.

I'd love to believe you. Unfortunately, Americans are not ready to embrace any sort of system of progressivism. They want the Lie of the American Dream, and they would vote for it again.

Demographically, the R(ape) party is on the way out. They're literally dying off, and not being replaced. It's just a matter of time before they are solely a regional minority annoyance. Thank fsm.

This is not a repeat from 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, and 2012.


It was true then, and it's true now. But it is also true that a small group of fanatics who are willing to destroy everything if they don't get their way can temporarily take control of a group. Public opinion poll show that Independents are very much against tea party terrorists.
 
2013-10-05 05:51:48 PM  

super_grass: Evil High Priest: whidbey: Infernalist: The GOP is doomed.

I'd love to believe you. Unfortunately, Americans are not ready to embrace any sort of system of progressivism. They want the Lie of the American Dream, and they would vote for it again.

Demographically, the R(ape) party is on the way out. They're literally dying off, and not being replaced. It's just a matter of time before they are solely a regional minority annoyance. Thank fsm.

This is not a repeat from 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2010, and 2012.


In the time it took you to type that, another 10 old, angry white guys kicked the bucket. And 15 people turned 18, ready to vote out the morons. It's attrition, and it's happening. Not fast enough for my tastes, but it is happening.
 
2013-10-05 06:04:28 PM  

zetar: Really superb research by James Carville (AKA The Snake) and company about who makes up the GOP and what's tearing it apart from the inside. Well worth the read (links to PDF): http://www.democracycorps.com/attachments/article/954/dcor%20rpp%20fg % 20memo%20100313%20final.pdf


Great link!  Thanks

I got a chuckle out of this part, "They think President Obama is on the verge of using his powers to pursue his agenda without limits. That is evident in the frequent discussions about executive orders and action"

If the Discharge Petition works to pass a clean Continuing Resolution then the fears of the paranoid nutjobs on the right will only be reaffirmed.  It will be viewed as Obama by passing Congress to move his agenda forward.
 
2013-10-05 06:13:55 PM  

blastoh: cman: I wouldn't say that they grew a spine moreso than they are now more united than ever.

GOP gave pretty much every Democrat a common enemy by their actions

Those who were passive are now rather active because they are pretty damn angry

I think you pretty much nailed it.
There is the old saying (think it goes to Clinton) that "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line."

Since at least the seventies, the weakness of the democrats has always been their lack of unity, while the strength of the GOP has been their unity.


I think we are seeing the beginnings of a complete reversal of this.


It'd be nice, but I doubt it. The Republicans are unofficially split by the Tea Party, but the Democrats are just looking at the numbers: people love Obamacare when it's described as policies rather than "Obamacare," i.e. the love that people with preexisting conditions can get coverage, etc. The word "Obamacare" polls badly, but the effects are great. The Republicans made a gigantic tactical error by letting the shutdown happen too late for it to actually impact Obamacare, which was already funded and so didn't shut down with the rest of the government (i.e. the exchanges were open Monday, even though everything else was shutting down), because they now don't have a bargaining position (as the polls indicate most people recognize).

Their hand was probably forced by the timing, but I have to wonder why they picked this fight now. I suspect it was a last-ditch effort, probably combined with the echo-chamber effect that they seem to be operating under. Outright disbelief of the polls, combined with whatever the fark Boehner thinks he's doing, and the Democrats' past behavior made them think that if they held firm, the Democrats would cave without their having to make a serious offer.
 
2013-10-05 06:46:36 PM  

whidbey: Target Builder: whidbey: Infernalist: The GOP is doomed.

I'd love to believe you. Unfortunately, Americans are not ready to embrace any sort of system of progressivism. They want the Lie of the American Dream, and they would vote for it again.

Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

Let me guess: Help help you are being oppressed.


gaygamer.net

"I am Andrew Ryan, and I am here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

'No,' says the man in Washington, 'it belongs to the poor.'
'No,' says the man in the Vatican, 'it belongs to God.'
'No,' says the man in Moscow, 'it belongs to everyone.'

I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...

Rapture.

A city where the artist would not fear the censor,
where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality,
where the great would not be constrained by the small.

And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city, as well."

/How did you not recognize that?
//Also the picture pops
 
2013-10-05 06:58:02 PM  
Wake me when they get the spine of a...
timelifeblog.files.wordpress.com
HERO SHREW!
 
2013-10-05 07:03:25 PM  

Infernalist: Bloody William: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: Weaver95: Mrbogey:
Behold. What voting Democrat can do to a mind.

why would the Democrats back down?  what's the advantage to them for doing so?

I'll believe it when they actually break the House Republicans.  Until then, I'll be expecting the usual jellyfish outcome.

I think even the most spineless, craven Democrats realize that this is the point where if they cave they will never wield political power again. Even if they stay in office and in the majority, the precedent will have been set that Republicans can use budget and debt ceiling tactics to demand anything they want.

This is entirely about 'control' of the legislative branch, my friend.  The GOP has spent the last 3 years wasting the time of the Congress with 40+ repeals of Obamacare that they know will die in the Senate and now that Obamacare is a reality, they're trying to undo that with hostage tactics.

In short, they're a bunch of losers who refuse to realize that they lost and lost big.

If the Democrats capitulate on this(and they won't), they can expect the same tactic to be used every time a CR is needed.

That's why the Democrats are breaking the GOP in this.  To teach them a hard lesson in reality-based decision making.


I want to believe, but that son of a biatch Max Baucus is retiring and he only needs a few more 'concerned, pragmatic' Democratic Senators to drop the whole thing on Obama.  If Obama has to veto it, that changes the 'who's keeping the government shut down' blame game narrative.
 
2013-10-05 07:08:14 PM  
So how many of us have republican Reps?

Mine is in no danger of being primaried in this wealthy district, nor losing to a Dem.

Letter writing campaigns and phone call are all we have right now.
 
2013-10-05 07:16:12 PM  
Ok, now that they've learned to stomp on the brakes...

time to learn out to push on the gas pedal.

/gun it
 
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