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(Slate)   When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine and stand up to the GOP?   (slate.com) divider line 182
    More: Interesting, Delaware Democratic Party, GOP, Democrats, humans, Rep. Jim McDermott, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, health insurance mandate, Democratic Coalition  
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4330 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Oct 2013 at 1:31 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-05 02:09:20 PM

IlGreven: whistleridge: raerae1980: FTA: Washington Rep. Jim McDermott after voting no on one of Thursday's GOP bills. "You can't deal with 'em. This mess was created by the Republicans for one purpose, and they lost. People in my district are calling in for Obamacare-affordable health care-in large numbers. These guys have lost, and they can't figure out how to admit it." Why would House Democrats give away what the Supreme Court and the 2012 electorate didn't? "You can't say, OK, you get half of Obamacare-this isn't a Solomonic decision," McDermott said. "So we sit here until they figure out they farkin' lost."


I can't believe he said that.  Sorry, I'm not used to hearing my politicians swear so openly.   It's the same feeling I get when I hear it from my parents.   In other words, he must be very pissed off/angry to express himself like that.

Meh. Politicians have been swearing for decades. It's just that the print media are too delicate to put it out there. Online sites have no such restrictions, so you get more of the juice.

Behind closed doors, everyone swears.  It is, and should be, notable when you swear in public.


From Cheynes "farking asshole" and Biden's "big farking deal", I think its pretty much obvious that no one cares when politicians swear
 
2013-10-05 02:10:08 PM

IlGreven: Behind closed doors, everyone swears.  It is, and should be, notable when you swear in public.


paulfite.files.wordpress.com

Go fark yourself.
 
2013-10-05 02:16:13 PM

raerae1980: FTA: Washington Rep. Jim McDermott after voting no on one of Thursday's GOP bills. "You can't deal with 'em. This mess was created by the Republicans for one purpose, and they lost. People in my district are calling in for Obamacare-affordable health care-in large numbers. These guys have lost, and they can't figure out how to admit it." Why would House Democrats give away what the Supreme Court and the 2012 electorate didn't? "You can't say, OK, you get half of Obamacare-this isn't a Solomonic decision," McDermott said. "So we sit here until they figure out they farkin' lost."


I can't believe he said that.  Sorry, I'm not used to hearing my politicians swear so openly.   It's the same feeling I get when I hear it from my parents.   In other words, he must be very pissed off/angry to express himself like that.


Congressional Dems should swear more often when describing TPers.
 
2013-10-05 02:20:39 PM
"When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine" - as much as that is a good question, I am just glad to finally see it happen.  I was happy enough with Obama's "you get nothing" speech but things are getting better and better.

More people - even politically casual people - are learning what the GOP really is now.  I think 2014 is gonna be a good year despite the gerrymandered districts.  I do believe we need a party to counter the Democrats, but the GOTP just simply needs destroyed completely.  Either they are destroyed, or America will be (by their hands).
 
2013-10-05 02:22:04 PM

Hobodeluxe: I think the GOP miscalculated. They thought that their sycophants would hang tight even if they got hit with furloughs and services denied. They thought the power of their messaging would keep the bubble intact. Au contraire. A lot of teabaggers are starting to feel the pinch. And even they don't want the govt to default. Sure they'd love to beat the Dems. But a lot of them have checked out the insurance exchanges and saw where they could save some bucks. or maybe they can get coverage now where they couldn't before. Every day that number increases and the lies about the ACA are being revealed before their very eyes. Reality always wins in the end. It may take time but it's unavoidable.


This is the party of unskewed polls and sending the leggy blonde down to verify with the math guys that, yes, President Obama did indeed win Ohio and the election. They're still clinging to the Reagan myth, still believing that somehow it'll turn into 1980 or 1994 or 2004 or even 2010 when they firmly believe the American people rose up behind the great Reagan Revolution.

Of course they're miscalculating. They've been miscalculating since 1994, if not earlier, what's to stop them from doing so now?
 
2013-10-05 02:25:24 PM
Mrbogey:
Behold. What voting Democrat can do to a mind.

why would the Democrats back down?  what's the advantage to them for doing so?
 
2013-10-05 02:25:30 PM
It's delicious watching the Republican Party continue to eat itself. Omnomnom.
 
2013-10-05 02:25:33 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Weaver95: the GOP talking point about this being all Obama's fault is still being pushed by the rank and file...but I see it getting destroyed over and over and over on facebook by people who normally avoid politics like the plague.  I'm not sure what to think about that development....

I too have noticed a lot of people that normally have nothing to do with politics shaking their heads and wondering what the hell is wrong with the GOP.  The right wing derp appears to be bouncing off of normal people.


I'm sure that if they just punish us some more, we'll all come around to their way of "thinking".
 
2013-10-05 02:26:05 PM

DamnYankees: 2010 happened - pretty much every blue dog lost in that election (which was about as predictable as the sun shining, since blue dogs are dumb as fark). What was left over was a more liberal caucus.


If only those Blue Dogs had a clue........

i39.tinypic.com
 
2013-10-05 02:26:16 PM
As I said to my friend the other day, I'm calling the 2016 election for whichever Democrat denounces bipartisanship first.

Now's the time for Dem.s to let the balls hang out. Not taking advantage of the Republicans clusterfarkapalooza would be the worst thing the could do. ...well, apart from not cleaning up the R-tards' mess that is.
 
2013-10-05 02:27:14 PM

CPennypacker: It's delicious watching the Republican Party continue to eat itself. Omnomnom.


I just hope we can limit the damage they do on their slide downwards into madness and impotent rage.
 
2013-10-05 02:29:34 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Of course they're miscalculating. They've been miscalculating since 1994, if not earlier, what's to stop them from doing so now?


On that you are dead wrong.  They are not miscalculating anything because they are not calculating anything in the first place!  They don't need to calculate.  Calculation is math, which is akin to science.  They do not need these tools of Satan when they have FAITH.  They believe, and that is all they need.

LOL
 
2013-10-05 02:30:58 PM

StopLurkListen: This was the perfectly WORST fight for the GOP to choose.

They gave Democrats no room to retreat, the Democrats lose nothing by fighting, and the GOP offered Democrats nothing in return for a surrender (or partial surrender),

So what would ANY opponent do in the similar situation? Fight like your political life depended on it.

...

"Art of War" was a business cliche in the 1980's, but Sun Tzu nailed it when he described how you want to set the environment of a fight before you start the fight. The GOP violated those principles in almost every way.


Or they can sit there in tranquil meditation until their opponent dies from starvation or their camp-followers cannibalize them.

Or, if someone pushes you to the cliff, you move out of the way and let them merrily tis themselves off it.
 
2013-10-05 02:33:27 PM
They have to push back because the GOP will never agree to a budget and just use the expiration of CRs to pass their entire agenda every few months.
 
2013-10-05 02:38:45 PM

mispelled username: They have to push back because the GOP will never agree to a budget and just use the expiration of CRs to pass their entire agenda every few months.


Which is why they are breaking the GOP now. This is the temper tantrum in the grocery store, with the whole world watching. "I told you you are not getting that toy. If you keep acting like this, I am going to cancel your birthday".
 
2013-10-05 02:43:49 PM
When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine and stand up to the GOP?


Or more like why is Slate writing a fluff piece on the Democrats?

And as long as there is still a shutdown, there's no indication the Democrats are fighting for shiat.
 
2013-10-05 02:46:39 PM

whidbey: When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine and stand up to the GOP?


Or more like why is Slate writing a fluff piece on the Democrats?

And as long as there is still a shutdown, there's no indication the Democrats are fighting for shiat.


No need to be mad, broseph.  Also, standing still is fighting when the other guy wants the hill you're holding.
 
2013-10-05 02:49:56 PM
Btw.

LADEE's lunar orbit insertion maneuver on track for early tomorrow morning, US time. But NASA cannot officially communicate its outcome.
 
2013-10-05 02:50:13 PM
When they saw a way to screw over America in order to gain power.
 
2013-10-05 02:52:47 PM
I just wanted to say that since this things been going on for a few days now, the moderates in my area are getting riled up and taking to local news sites and and stuff to shout down the usual bevy of far right commenters blaming everything on Obama.  Of course, there is like 5000 people furloughed here right now because of it and a whole lot more that might not be getting paid in a few weeks, so that might have an effect.

I have to say, it's nice to see well reasoned comments for once rather than the usual.
 
2013-10-05 02:53:40 PM

Mrbogey: What gives with Democrats perpetually whining about how weak their leadership is. What is the psychological payoff on that delusion?



I'll give you a snark-free opinion on this -- I think it comes down to how the two major parties tend to attract different psychological types. I expect a majority of fair-minded, go-along-get-along types find a home with the Democrats. No hard data to back this up but I also think that members of our team are more likely to be analytical and introspective. Compare that to the Repubs who stereotypically "know" all sorts of "truths" and don't spend a lot of time thinking about tweaking their ideas to get better results because, hey, they can't possibly be any more perfect than they already are. Also try not to think of 'libs' as a monolithic bloc with identical pet peeves and opinions. Some Democrats complaining about weak leadership doesn't imply all Democrats are.

If there's any truth at all to any of that it makes sense that my people are going to whine about spinelessness once in a while. Sometimes our guys will start out by giving up some ground just for the sake of appearing reasonable, before any negotiation's even begun. (Example, most of Obama's first Presidential term, q.v.) So behavior like that's going to frustrate people who'd like to win once in a while, y'know? And those of us who value dispassionate observation as a means to discovering what's really going on aren't going to ignore things that are staring us in the face just so we can pretend to feel better.

Does that make any sense?
 
2013-10-05 02:53:52 PM

Mrbogey: Behold. What voting Democrat can do to a mind.


fark me, you're phoning it in today. I don't even want to give you a pity argument. There's no substance. There isn't even anything to get annoyed by. You're bringing out rice cakes of trolling. I never thought I'd feel bad about a troll not doing his job well, but... this is just lame.
 
2013-10-05 02:54:50 PM

randomjsa: When they saw a way to screw over America in order to gain power.


well yes, but that's the GOP for you.
 
2013-10-05 02:55:18 PM

Weaver95: Mrbogey:
Behold. What voting Democrat can do to a mind.

why would the Democrats back down?  what's the advantage to them for doing so?


I'll believe it when they actually break the House Republicans.  Until then, I'll be expecting the usual jellyfish outcome.
 
2013-10-05 02:55:37 PM

Infernalist: whidbey: When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine and stand up to the GOP?


Or more like why is Slate writing a fluff piece on the Democrats?

And as long as there is still a shutdown, there's no indication the Democrats are fighting for shiat.

No need to be mad, broseph.  Also, standing still is fighting when the other guy wants the hill you're holding.


Yeah but seriously come on.

This is the most shiat-filled political theater since the Bush administration. It's really hard to support the party you helped elect twice, and overwhelmingly. This might be about Obamacare, sure, but a lot of other services are taking a huge hit because of this.
 
2013-10-05 02:57:33 PM

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: Weaver95: Mrbogey:
Behold. What voting Democrat can do to a mind.

why would the Democrats back down?  what's the advantage to them for doing so?

I'll believe it when they actually break the House Republicans.  Until then, I'll be expecting the usual jellyfish outcome.


I think even the most spineless, craven Democrats realize that this is the point where if they cave they will never wield political power again. Even if they stay in office and in the majority, the precedent will have been set that Republicans can use budget and debt ceiling tactics to demand anything they want.
 
2013-10-05 02:59:20 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: / I have no idea how we would handle the shrinking of the health insurance industry
// IIRC, it's 16% of our GDP; lots of laid off salespeople & office workers in the future, I think..


We invest and grow the economy in other ways.  If we were more forward-thinking, that would have been included in Obamacare, as I think we're going to see a downsizing of the insurance industry now that it is being made more straightforward.
 
2013-10-05 03:00:13 PM

raerae1980: I can't believe he said that. Sorry, I'm not used to hearing my politicians swear so openly. It's the same feeling I get when I hear it from my parents. In other words, he must be very pissed off/angry to express himself like that.


For one of the few times in my life, I am proud of someone I voted for.   I mean honest to god, I want to shake that man's hand.
 
2013-10-05 03:01:11 PM
The GOP's "negotiating position" has turned into a suicide pact.  There's absolutely no incentive to placate them anymore.
 
2013-10-05 03:04:07 PM

Infernalist: Forbidden Doughnut: Mad Tea Party: If they had any kind of a spine, they'd be pushing for single-payer instead of a rebranded Romneycare.

If Obamacare fails a few years from now, yet millions of people DO get health insurance for a time, we may see a push for exactly that.

/ I have no idea how we would handle the shrinking of the health insurance industry
// IIRC, it's 16% of our GDP; lots of laid off salespeople & office workers in the future, I think..
/// still, I'll play the world's tiniest violin for corporations like Cigna and UnitedHealth

It's very simple:

In a few years, once the exchanges have settled upon the few huge companies that will cover the majority of the ACA-related healthcare for those millions of people, you simply have them co-opted by the government directly.

They maintain the infrastructure, but lop off the top half of the executive system and send the bills directly to the government.  Absorb the infrastructure into the Medicare system and give the Executives a golden parachute and one-time payoff to go away.

Tada, Obamacare becomes Medicare.




Tea Party members LOVE Medicare.
 
2013-10-05 03:04:57 PM

Bloody William: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: Weaver95: Mrbogey:
Behold. What voting Democrat can do to a mind.

why would the Democrats back down?  what's the advantage to them for doing so?

I'll believe it when they actually break the House Republicans.  Until then, I'll be expecting the usual jellyfish outcome.

I think even the most spineless, craven Democrats realize that this is the point where if they cave they will never wield political power again. Even if they stay in office and in the majority, the precedent will have been set that Republicans can use budget and debt ceiling tactics to demand anything they want.


This is entirely about 'control' of the legislative branch, my friend.  The GOP has spent the last 3 years wasting the time of the Congress with 40+ repeals of Obamacare that they know will die in the Senate and now that Obamacare is a reality, they're trying to undo that with hostage tactics.

In short, they're a bunch of losers who refuse to realize that they lost and lost big.

If the Democrats capitulate on this(and they won't), they can expect the same tactic to be used every time a CR is needed.

That's why the Democrats are breaking the GOP in this.  To teach them a hard lesson in reality-based decision making.
 
2013-10-05 03:06:31 PM

whidbey: Infernalist: whidbey: When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine and stand up to the GOP?


Or more like why is Slate writing a fluff piece on the Democrats?

And as long as there is still a shutdown, there's no indication the Democrats are fighting for shiat.

No need to be mad, broseph.  Also, standing still is fighting when the other guy wants the hill you're holding.

Yeah but seriously come on.

This is the most shiat-filled political theater since the Bush administration. It's really hard to support the party you helped elect twice, and overwhelmingly. This might be about Obamacare, sure, but a lot of other services are taking a huge hit because of this.


The GOP thanks you for this opinion.

Rile up the base and exhaust your opponent!
 
2013-10-05 03:08:44 PM

randomjsa: When they saw a way to screw over America in order to gain power.


And who presented this with this "way."

This might be a good time for you to sit back and really ask yourself if this strategy that the GOP came up with is good for the country, or themselves in the long run.

And even if you think that it is worth it to get rid of the Affordable Care Act.   Then consider this.
If you are so scared of the Democrats gaining power, is it worth a futile act to attempt to get rid of ACA, if that effort not only fails, but then is able to end up helping those evil democrats retake control of the house and gain more power.

Trust me, even Machiavelli is have conniption fits in his grave right now.
 
2013-10-05 03:10:17 PM
When the public universally recognized the GOP's only goal in the shutdown was media promotion and the Republicans themselves couldn't agree on a talking point. Shutdown vs. 'Slimdown', 'Democrats won't negotiate' vs. 'we can't compromise our values', 'standing up to wasteful government' vs. 'Obama shut down the WWII memorial'. They might as well hold up those signs from 'They Live' with a message like, "HATE OBAMA: NO SPECIFIC REASON".

Once Ted Cruz stole the attention with his fake filibuster it was more or less a race for Republicans to put their face in front of the camera instead of doing their jobs. They got lazy, assumed right-wing media could handle the spin and everyone saw right through it.

Democrats, meanwhile, got the kind of lockstep outrage support conservatives take for granted and they decided to act like Republicans. And like all wimps who've won their first fistfight they've found that there's some merit to violence and bullying.
 
2013-10-05 03:11:39 PM

bk3k: I do believe we need a party to counter the Democrats, but the GOTP just simply needs destroyed completely. Either they are destroyed, or America will be (by their hands).


The current setup will guarantee a second party shows up eventually. It'll just result from a split in the first one. See also: the Era of Good Feelings. The Federalists were obliterated after a blown short-sell of the War of 1812, and it was about 10 years of one-party rule before the Democrat/Republican split.
 
2013-10-05 03:15:29 PM

DamnYankees: 2010 happened - pretty much every blue dog lost in that election (which was about as predictable as the sun shining, since blue dogs are dumb as fark). What was left over was a more liberal caucus.


Wait, I thought 2010 was because teabaggers voted out all the libby libs?
 
2013-10-05 03:17:17 PM

SixPaperJoint: whidbey: Infernalist: whidbey: When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine and stand up to the GOP?


Or more like why is Slate writing a fluff piece on the Democrats?

And as long as there is still a shutdown, there's no indication the Democrats are fighting for shiat.

No need to be mad, broseph.  Also, standing still is fighting when the other guy wants the hill you're holding.

Yeah but seriously come on.

This is the most shiat-filled political theater since the Bush administration. It's really hard to support the party you helped elect twice, and overwhelmingly. This might be about Obamacare, sure, but a lot of other services are taking a huge hit because of this.

The GOP thanks you for this opinion.

Rile up the base and exhaust your opponent!


Yeah well it still farking sucks. I can't wait until 2016 when we either have another near-win from another creepy right-winger running for the Presidency again because my fellow Americans are so farking cynical and dense. Or god knows, a full blown win because "hurr both sides durr." Yeah I'm a bit pissed. Deal with it.
 
2013-10-05 03:21:26 PM
The White House and the Democratic party have decided to draw the line at allowing the Republicans to use extortion as a means to drive policy. The Republicans are attempting to undermine the democratic process and are willing to hurt the American people to grab power. The Republicans are attempting to pull off a coup, overthrow democracy in America and replace it with a cultural hegemony. They must be stopped.
 
2013-10-05 03:21:55 PM

whidbey: Yeah well it still farking sucks. I can't wait until 2016 when we either have another near-win from another creepy right-winger running for the Presidency again because my fellow Americans are so farking cynical and dense. Or god knows, a full blown win because "hurr both sides durr." Yeah I'm a bit pissed. Deal with it.


Well, it'll always kind of be like that because the structure of the race ensures it'll almost always be a one-on-one showdown in November. The way it's set up, you're always going to have a narrative of 'Candidate X is the only thing standing between Candidate Y and the White House'.
 
2013-10-05 03:26:22 PM
Obama should say, you know what? I'm not going to sign any provisions to keep the govt open or to extend the debt limit until I get single payer/medicare for all. Tighter regulations on Wall st. And a 3% capital gains tax increase. Now mr Boehner are you ready to negotiate?
 
2013-10-05 03:27:38 PM

whidbey: SixPaperJoint: whidbey: Infernalist: whidbey: When did the Democratic party finally grow a spine and stand up to the GOP?


Or more like why is Slate writing a fluff piece on the Democrats?

And as long as there is still a shutdown, there's no indication the Democrats are fighting for shiat.

No need to be mad, broseph.  Also, standing still is fighting when the other guy wants the hill you're holding.

Yeah but seriously come on.

This is the most shiat-filled political theater since the Bush administration. It's really hard to support the party you helped elect twice, and overwhelmingly. This might be about Obamacare, sure, but a lot of other services are taking a huge hit because of this.

The GOP thanks you for this opinion.

Rile up the base and exhaust your opponent!

Yeah well it still farking sucks. I can't wait until 2016 when we either have another near-win from another creepy right-winger running for the Presidency again because my fellow Americans are so farking cynical and dense. Or god knows, a full blown win because "hurr both sides durr." Yeah I'm a bit pissed. Deal with it.


I am so confused right now.
 
2013-10-05 03:28:52 PM

red5ish: The White House and the Democratic party have decided to draw the line at allowing the Republicans to use extortion as a means to drive policy. The Republicans are attempting to undermine the democratic process and are willing to hurt the American people to grab power. The Republicans are attempting to pull off a coup, overthrow democracy in America and replace it with a cultural hegemony. They must be stopped.


See, this was another aspect of the gigantic tactical mistake. The hostage they took wound up not even being the #1 priority of those they're extracting demands from. The GOP figured that this was going to be, 'what is a mere healthcare reform law when compared with the full faith and credit of the US government?' What they don't get is that the Dems are actually thinking, 'what is the mere full faith and credit of the US government when compared with our very democracy?'
 
2013-10-05 03:29:14 PM

cman: I wouldn't say that they grew a spine moreso than they are now more united than ever.

GOP gave pretty much every Democrat a common enemy by their actions

Those who were passive are now rather active because they are pretty damn angry


I think you pretty much nailed it.
There is the old saying (think it goes to Clinton) that "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line."

Since at least the seventies, the weakness of the democrats has always been their lack of unity, while the strength of the GOP has been their unity.


I think we are seeing the beginnings of a complete reversal of this.
 
2013-10-05 03:31:23 PM

Hobodeluxe: Obama should say, you know what? I'm not going to sign any provisions to keep the govt open or to extend the debt limit until I get single payer/medicare for all. Tighter regulations on Wall st. And a 3% capital gains tax increase. Now mr Boehner are you ready to negotiate?


As much as I want those things, I don't see how that is any different than the GOP's hostage-taking.  The goal should be to eliminate the use of the shutdown or debt ceiling as a high-stakes extortion attempt altogether.
 
2013-10-05 03:33:13 PM
When all they had to do was stand their while the GOP destroyed itself from the inside.
 
2013-10-05 03:34:02 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Hobodeluxe: Obama should say, you know what? I'm not going to sign any provisions to keep the govt open or to extend the debt limit until I get single payer/medicare for all. Tighter regulations on Wall st. And a 3% capital gains tax increase. Now mr Boehner are you ready to negotiate?

As much as I want those things, I don't see how that is any different than the GOP's hostage-taking.  The goal should be to eliminate the use of the shutdown or debt ceiling as a high-stakes extortion attempt altogether.


yeah but that's the point. they claim he won't negotiate. but he's not asking for anything, so he makes a list of demands of his own and then the ball is in their court. they can't accuse him of not being willing to negotiate then. Then he has demands that he's willing to concede if they will drop their demands :)
 
2013-10-05 03:37:39 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Hobodeluxe: Obama should say, you know what? I'm not going to sign any provisions to keep the govt open or to extend the debt limit until I get single payer/medicare for all. Tighter regulations on Wall st. And a 3% capital gains tax increase. Now mr Boehner are you ready to negotiate?

As much as I want those things, I don't see how that is any different than the GOP's hostage-taking.  The goal should be to eliminate the use of the shutdown or debt ceiling as a high-stakes extortion attempt altogether.



Yeah, that would be legitimizing the tactic.  Have to keep in mind the right's tendency to take tu quoque as an unspoken policy platform: if the Dems do it even once, at any time in history, under any circumstances, it becomes permissible for the GOP to do it whenever they feel like it; and any objection based on ramifications or context is dismissable as hypocricy.

The tactic itself needs its balls cut off here, not (just) the Republican party.
 
2013-10-05 03:38:15 PM

Hobodeluxe: yeah but that's the point. they claim he won't negotiate. but he's not asking for anything, so he makes a list of demands of his own and then the ball is in their court. they can't accuse him of not being willing to negotiate then. Then he has demands that he's willing to concede if they will drop their demands :)


He shouldn't negotiate.  He shouldn't draw up an opposing list of demands and justify their behavior by engaging in it.  He should do exactly what he is doing (I believe this is the first time I've ever said that about President Milquetoast) and refuse to interact with them on any level where the situation is framed as a negotiation.  The proper response is to say "we do not negotiate with terrorists", and oppose the tactic at its source.
 
2013-10-05 03:42:24 PM

Bloody William: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: Weaver95: Mrbogey:
Behold. What voting Democrat can do to a mind.

why would the Democrats back down?  what's the advantage to them for doing so?

I'll believe it when they actually break the House Republicans.  Until then, I'll be expecting the usual jellyfish outcome.

I think even the most spineless, craven Democrats realize that this is the point where if they cave they will never wield political power again. Even if they stay in office and in the majority, the precedent will have been set that Republicans can use budget and debt ceiling tactics to demand anything they want.


Bingo. This is a tactic that has to be stopped and neutered or our government is completely dysfunctional forever. And thankfully Obama isn't the person the Republicans make him out to be, because then he would just look for a solution that involved doing an end run around Congress, and pointing out how smoothly the government operates when they aren't involved.

If we don't stop this bullshiat now, that will be the endgame for some power hungry son of a biatch.
 
2013-10-05 03:44:04 PM

Bloody William: rice cakes of trolling


hehe, awesome.
 
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