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(Washington Post) NewsFlash BREAKING: House Democrats announce they will bring discharge petition to the floor of the House to pass a clean CR, circumventing the Speaker and the House Majority   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 260
    More: NewsFlash, Chambers of parliament, Democrats, Republican, continuing resolution, House GOP  
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13096 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2013 at 2:20 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-10-04 01:58:42 PM
7 votes:
So, they have the votes to re-open, but Boehner won't let it go to the floor?

Christ.  Why does anyone blame anyone other than the GOP for any of this
2013-10-04 02:22:49 PM
6 votes:
UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.
2013-10-04 03:02:22 PM
5 votes:

Skarekrough: If this works you're going to see Derp go to unprecedented levels, you know this, right?


Let's play out the other possible outcomes:

1) Boehner allows a clean CR to come to a vote - Derp goes to unprecedented levels
2) Boehner stalls until debt ceiling day and lets a clean CR go through - Derp goes to unprecedented levels
3) Boehner refuses a vote and the economy crumbles under shutdown - Derp goes to unprecedented levels
etc...

When your opposition has only one possible response no matter what you do, they take themselves out of the equation.  This is exactly what I've been advocating - cutting the GOP out of the process of governance as much as possible.  Next step would be to use coin/14th to bypass the debt ceiling, and get on with regular business and recovery.  The derpers were going to derp no matter what the Dems did, so they might as well do whatever they feel like doing.
2013-10-04 01:52:23 PM
5 votes:
Considering they're trying this off of the back of a GOP sponsored bill, what are the chances that if it works the Republicans immediately start claiming credit for it like it was their idea all along?
2013-10-04 01:47:49 PM
5 votes:
Now that's fascinating. Force the moderate GOPers to vote for it.
2013-10-05 07:19:38 AM
4 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So, they have the votes to re-open, but Boehner won't let it go to the floor?

Christ.  Why does anyone blame anyone other than the GOP for any of this


Yes, they have the votes for a clean CR, but Boehner won't let it come to the floor because he's afraid of the Tea Party, and because of the
of the "Hastert Rule".

The "Hastert Rule" is a policy/rule that was adopted by former Speaker Dennis Hastert, which says that no legislation can be brought up for a vote unless it has the support of a majority of the ruling party.  In other words, you can't have the entire minority party plus some people crossing the aisle to support legislation, the majority party must back it.  Formally, Boehner never adopted the Hastert Rule as an operating rule of the House, but he's never broken it either, always requiring a majority of the Republicans before bringing anything to a vote.

So it replaces democratic rule with rule by The Party.  Only legislation approved by The Party may be voted on, even if a majority of congressmen approve of it.

Combine that with the fact that the Republicans are living in fear of two things:
1. Getting "primaried" by the Tea Party if they are not ideologically pure enough.
2. Obamacare actually succeeding and making their last 3 years of pure derp look extra foolish.

. . .and you've got a recipe for them being willing to keep things shut down indefinitely in the hopes that the Republican Hate Machine will have people somehow blaming Obama and the Democrats for this for not "compromising".
2013-10-05 12:42:39 AM
4 votes:
You can add me to the tally.  I was a red-blooded republican, until one day I noticed my fundie nut relatives and my party all on the same wavelength.  And when I noticed they were apparently legislating for a fictional universe, rather than the one we're in, I pulled the ejection lever so freaking hard on that I split the damn derp express plane in half on the way out.

fark that place.  Srsly.
2013-10-04 05:03:58 PM
4 votes:

Witty_Retort: lockers: I like that the endgame they had planned is having the democrats look even better then they already did.

There was no endgame. There are articles from the spring saying that the Rs were planning this, even though they had no idea what they wanted. They just knew that they wanted a shutdown and to extort something from the Ds.


The problem is that the Republican Party platform is essentially incoherent. The thing with national parks is a great example. They refuse to pay for the national parks to operate, then berate Park employees for not having the money to operate the parks. They rail against "pork-barrel" projects and successfully ban earmarks, then wonder why their roads are falling apart, their bridges left unrepaired, and their dams are leaking. They've taken "pro-business" and "the government is the problem" so far that they're actually hurting US commerce with how much vital yet unprofitable work they've prevented the Federal government from doing, and refuse to pay for themselves at the State level. I sort of feel like the president should just start giving a televised speech every week where he open an Econ 101 book up and starts reading the chapter on "Public Goods".
2013-10-04 04:00:49 PM
4 votes:

Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.


That's my general thought.  Or whoever brought it to him pitched it like this:

"John, I know this whole thing has been hard on you.."

"Goddamned Tea Party freaks."

"Right, so here's this bill....Yeah, from March.  Now, remember 2002 when they did the petition against Hastert?"

"Yeah, complete end-run around him, he was...powerless to stop it."

"You see where I'm going with it, then."

"Send this over to Pelosi's office.  Use one of the mail runners, not one of our staffers."
2013-10-04 02:59:42 PM
4 votes:
I said this months ago, and I'll say it again:

The democrats should try to find enough House Republicans to caucus with them to elect a new Speaker, shutting the Tea Party out of congress.

Terms of the deal are this:

-A Republican gets to be Speaker and chairmanships of a few key committees (but not appropriations).
-The GOP defectors will sit-down with Obama and the Dem Senate Leadership to agree on what legislation the GOP speaker will bring to the floor.
-The Democrats will not field any candidates against the defectors. Even if the defectors lose their primaries and run as independents in the general, the Democrats will stay out of the race. And if these GOP members want, Obama will even urge Democratic voters to vote for them in the general.

As outlandish as this may sound, this happens all of the time in state legislatures.

And while these GOP defectors may lose their primaries, the terms of the deal keep Democrats from running in the general, which would make it pretty easy for them to win reelection, especially if they're running against some ultra right wing tea party nut.
2013-10-04 02:30:01 PM
4 votes:
Guarantee you that this GOPer came to the Dems with this bill in hand and said "This might help."

Guaranteed.

There's no way that the Democrats found this somewhere stuffed away.  This is Boehner's way out.
2013-10-04 02:14:12 PM
4 votes:
FTA: The irony here, of course, is that Dems are effectively hijacking a Republican bill in an effort to undercut the whole House GOP strategy.

community.us.playstation.com
2013-10-04 02:08:38 PM
4 votes:

SilentStrider: No. Force Boehner to do it.
If the Democrats do it, Boehner saves face with both the tea party and the moderates.


I suspect that this won't work, but it'll at least show that the Democrats are trying to reopen the government, while the GOP is doing everything they can to keep it shut down. I would prefer that Boehner be forced to do it, sparking a split that makes defaulting on the debt unlikely.
2013-10-04 02:00:26 PM
4 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: However, once we're clear of the shutdown and the debt ceiling crisis, we can at least go back to good old-fashioned negotiation when it comes to the budget numbers and appropriations. The Democrats haven't said they're unwilling to negotiate, they're just unwilling to negotiate with their backs against the wall regarding the shutdown or the debt ceiling


The GOP had no idea how much they would hate the sequester, since it cuts into their pork.  They're going to have to deal to save their bacon.  And they'll find that no one trusts them an inch any more.  Rightfully so.
2013-10-04 01:53:49 PM
4 votes:

DamnYankees: Now that's fascinating. Force the moderate GOPers to vote for it.


I don't think there's such a thing as "moderate GOPers" in Congress--some of them are not insane of course, but they're all pretty far right..  It's perhaps more accurate to say "non-derp GOPers."
2013-10-04 05:04:27 PM
3 votes:
The GOP master plan looks like this...
1) Shut down government
2) ?
3) ?

All effort went into step 1.
To gain support, individual members were encouraged to just fill in steps 2 and 3 themselves.
Like:

1) Shut down government
2) gain respect
3) get something

1) Shut down government
2) useful puppet
3) Speaker for life!

1) Shut down government
2) take credit
3) First Canadian US President!

1) Shut down government
2) repeal Obamacare
3) Grateful masses, now able to sign up for "get sick and die" program, reelect me for life.

1) Shut down government
2) retreat to heavily stocked bunker with Gold supplies
3) Emerge in 2 years and rule the world

1) Shut down government
2) Punish everyone
3) PUNISH PUNISH THEY WILL ALL BE SORRY

1) Shut down government
2) Please insane Tea Party
3) Don't get primaried and get Koch bucks
 1) Shut down government

2) Get attention
3) Bask

1) Shut down government
2) Grateful masses
3) Last Black President
2013-10-04 03:49:51 PM
3 votes:

grandma's famous pot pie recipe: fenianfark: cretinbob: grandma's famous pot pie recipe: Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".

0/10

He's not trolling, that's re-posted Freeper logic. The sad thing is, the Freepers aren't trying to troll, they really mean it. Bless their simple hearts.

What's awesome is that it could be a real Freeper, or one of you farks posting over there.  Poe's law, we'll never know.


Oh, they're very quick to ban anyone who doesn't toe the line.  Multiple purges in the last RNC primary season.  It was a digital Night of the Long Knives.  Repeatedly.  In truth, it's a fascinating study into the conservative mind that is so clear and vile in its expression that simply immersing yourself in the derp now and again will render you all but immune to the tired-ass trolls here on Fark.
2013-10-04 02:59:55 PM
3 votes:

cman: FlashHarry: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.

Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?

The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"


The point is that the constitution doesn't say anything about a 'debt ceiling'. It shouldn't even exist in the first place and a unilateral action by Obama could initiate a challenge of it's constitutionality. That could be a good thing assuming SCOTUS agrees that it is unconstitutional.
2013-10-04 02:58:05 PM
3 votes:

AdmirableSnackbar: Except that wouldn't be correct.  It's not just Boehner standing in the way, it's all of the Republicans in the House...at least for now.


FTFA:  At last count, as many as two dozen House Republicans appear prepared to vote for a clean CR. With Democrats included, that means a majority of the House of Representatives would vote right now to reopen the government. But the House GOP leadership won't allow such a vote.

The Post has been reporting this for 48 hours now.  The moment the 17th Republican went on record saying they would vote for a clean CR, any further continuation became entirely Boehner's fault.
2013-10-04 02:38:17 PM
3 votes:
I've heard of Democrats with spines, but I always figured they were like unicorns or Big foot or Guinness bar towels
2013-10-04 02:35:48 PM
3 votes:
No. Force Boehner to do it.
If the Democrats  any group of bi-partisan legislators can do it, Boehner   our country saves face with both the tea party and the moderates. the rest of the world and we can begin to have a functioning government again.

Why is it always about "my team"?  While sane people know the GOP is to blame, adults also recognize that
our country wins if there are actually bi-partisan groups that try to govern.
2013-10-04 02:25:59 PM
3 votes:

Nadie_AZ: I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.


They've edited to article to state that the entire original bill would be replaced by an amendment that details the clean CR the Senate already passed.
2013-10-04 02:22:51 PM
3 votes:
History lesson:

i44.tinypic.com
2013-10-04 01:53:47 PM
3 votes:
The bill in question is the "Government Shutdown Prevention Act," which was introduced in March by GOP Rep. James Lankford of Oklahoma.

BRILLIANT!! Use their own farking legislation against them!!

Prepare for Teabagger Nuclear Butthurt, folks!
2013-10-05 11:37:09 AM
2 votes:

Cyclometh: To everyone who thinks that it's OK to use the power of the purse to defund or delay the ACA: What would your response be if there was a GOP majority in the Senate, a GOP President, and a Democratic minority in the House that used the "Power of the Purse" to force the Senate and the President to enact a ban on semi-automatic handguns nationwide, and if not, they'd shut down the government and refuse to pay the debts of the US?

Our Constitution and system of government was never intended to allow a minority faction of one part of the Congress to control the legislative agenda of the country, nor to repeal settled law.

If the House is allowed to get away with this, it will be at the cost of forever weakening the structure of our government by setting the precedent that in order to pass your legislative agenda, you don't need a majority in the Congress or control the Presidency. You don't have to make deals, negotiate or put together the votes for a veto override.

No, in the new America, all you need is a razor-thin majority in the House. Then you can do anything you want because if the rest don't bow to your wishes, you just shut it all down.

That's NOT how it works. And it cannot be allowed to be set as a precedent. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on, this kind of disgusting abuse of the legislative process should stick in the craw of every American.


If you weren't already favorited by me, I'd favorite you for this comment alone.
2013-10-05 11:18:21 AM
2 votes:
To everyone who thinks that it's OK to use the power of the purse to defund or delay the ACA: What would your response be if there was a GOP majority in the Senate, a GOP President, and a Democratic minority in the House that used the "Power of the Purse" to force the Senate and the President to enact a ban on semi-automatic handguns nationwide, and if not, they'd shut down the government and refuse to pay the debts of the US?

Our Constitution and system of government was never intended to allow a minority faction of one part of the Congress to control the legislative agenda of the country, nor to repeal settled law.

If the House is allowed to get away with this, it will be at the cost of forever weakening the structure of our government by setting the precedent that in order to pass your legislative agenda, you don't need a majority in the Congress or control the Presidency. You don't have to make deals, negotiate or put together the votes for a veto override.

No, in the new America, all you need is a razor-thin majority in the House. Then you can do anything you want because if the rest don't bow to your wishes, you just shut it all down.

That's NOT how it works. And it cannot be allowed to be set as a precedent. It doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on, this kind of disgusting abuse of the legislative process should stick in the craw of every American.
2013-10-05 01:39:27 AM
2 votes:
I hope they double down again.  I really do.  I hope they accumulate every insane, stupid, willfully ignorant, fundie nutbag on their little freaking lifeboat shortly before the goddamn thing sinks.  I want 'em all taken out at once.  Only when these lunatics are finally put in straightjackets and taken out of places of authority will we have any hope as a country.

And let's get the farking creationists of the science board.  And quit making the head of NASA a political position.

And for that farking matter, outlaw gerrymandering for all sides and do the farking campaign finance reform.

And give the DOD budget to NASA.  We got a military budget greater than the next 25 countries behind us combined, and most of those are our farking allies.  shiat's unnecessary at that level.
2013-10-05 01:08:06 AM
2 votes:

iq_in_binary: Cpl.D: You can add me to the tally.  I was a red-blooded republican, until one day I noticed my fundie nut relatives and my party all on the same wavelength.  And when I noticed they were apparently legislating for a fictional universe, rather than the one we're in, I pulled the ejection lever so freaking hard on that I split the damn derp express plane in half on the way out.

fark that place.  Srsly.

I always tell people something pulled my head out of the muck and I looked around going "Whoa whoa whoa too far to the right! Stop! Hit the brakes! Wait, is that motherfarker goose-stepping?"


That happened just this week to one of my co-workers. I saw his Facebook posts go from ultra-tea to anti-tea/moderate/nearly pro-Obama in just a few days. Shocking, but it gives me hope.
2013-10-05 12:02:43 AM
2 votes:

BMFPitt: FormlessOne: You're assuming that the moderate members of the GOP can stop it. So far, they've been largely ineffectual. Honestly, I think these fools are quite willing to auger us into the friggin' ground if it means keeping their ideological purity.

I think that Boehner will introduce it at the last minute, averting disaster for a few months, and causing him to be promptly removed as Speaker.

The next guy will let us default.


He's over the barrel. He has to do Pelosi's bidding to have any chance of keeping the speakership. When the debt ceiling thing starts getting serious there are going to be far too many GOP seats in moneyed districts being fitted for cement shoes and Boehner's own wallets in Ohio leaving horseheads for him and the "moderates" to see any other way out than leaving it the fark alone and extending it three years in exchange for Democratic votes for the Speakership and if they're lucky no serious Democratic challenges in their district so they can fend off the Tea Party primary challenger.

Hell at this point, were I signatory to the discharge petition I'd amend the CR to the first counteroffer to the Ryan Budget instead of the sequester level cuts and tell them it's either this and letting a 3 year extension of the debt ceiling happen or those rabid starving dogs we have you dangling over. They deserve public humiliation for letting the shutdown happen, making them swallow in front of the entire country is a good start.
2013-10-04 11:37:09 PM
2 votes:

FormlessOne: Infernalist: cman: mgshamster: BMFPitt: So if this actually works, it just means we'll end the shutdown one day before hitting the debt limit.  Yay, we're saved!

The alternative is having the shutdown going through the debt limit, and automatically defaulting on our loans.

If this happens, you can say goodbye to our economy

The world's economy will take a massive hit as well.  Economic chaos as the world drops the dollar and picks up the Euro or some other currency that's perceived as more stable...

This is why I know they won't let us default.  It won't happen.

You're assuming that the moderate members of the GOP can stop it. So far, they've been largely ineffectual. Honestly, I think these fools are quite willing to auger us into the friggin' ground if it means keeping their ideological purity.


I sincerely believe that men in black suits and sunglasses will personally visit each of the resistant members of Congress and quietly threaten their lives enough to ensure that they bend enough to pass a debt ceiling increase.

There are just too many people in this world that will lose obscene amounts of money if we default.

This goes beyond politics in a major way.
2013-10-04 11:05:00 PM
2 votes:

KarmicDisaster: MyRandomName: 27 times a democratic led Senate has passred non clean legislation on spending bills. 27. Democrat controlled Congressrs account for 60% of the dirty spending bills. Wsj article today breaking down the legislative history.

Yet here farklibs are once again lying and denying history. Kudos on your applied ignorance.

Why is it taking so long to get some Talking Points issued?  Our trolls have nothing to work with.


This, hilariously. See, this is what happens when you don't plan ahead - the teabaggers didn't have a "In case of Democrat spine, break glass" plan, and so they can't figure out how to spin the simple fact that they planned this for months, deliberately, as their "final solution" to Obamacare.

The claims for "negotiation" are a waste, Boehner. It's been law for, what, three years now? You've tried to legislate it away (over forty times), sue it away (it's constitutional, you dolt), and now you want to extort it away by holding the country hostage to the demands of your tiny batch of political lunatics.

You now have a choice - your country, or your party. You've slung "country first" rhetoric around for years, when it suited you. Now, put up or shut up, you damned coward.
2013-10-04 10:45:14 PM
2 votes:

sendtodave: bwilson27: sobriquet by any other name: ItsMyNameYouCantHaveIt: There is SO MUCH freeper butthurt....

--"They may have many "wobblies,"
********
That word is too kind. Their votes could blow up the Republican Party for good. They are only looking out for their own hides and could care less about bigger causes."


**in regards to the list of 18 repubs willing to sign**
--"A handy list for the 2014 cycle. Time to "clean" house."


--"It might seem suicidal but I would insist that the Pubs who break ranks leave the party. If we lose our majority so be it. We are in a fight for our lives. We will have a better opportunity to regain the House and Senate if the public knows the Pubs stand for liberty and an end to tyranny and are willing to fight for it."

Since conservative freepers are so idiotically able to believe everything they read so long as they think it comes from old, spittle-soaked Caucasian gentlemen, i see absolutely no problem having their rank and file (and trolls from across the spectrum) convince them how "right" they are.

it's delicious, seeing how their penchant for dis-believing every piece of math and logic ever makes them infinitely manipulatable... by anyone, for any reason. Up until now, it was to use them to bolster an obviously tired republican wing.. but now i'm convinced the "echo chamber" is running out of oxygen as trolls convince them to breath deeper and deeper. It's surreal, and, did I mention, delicious?

/If you live without regard for math, prepare to be divided
//...facts, too

Plus, the innerwebs leveled the lying game. sure, there are still plenty of old suckers out there too derp to find out the truth, but the rest of the populace is slowly getting this fact. It's hard to live in a bubble when the greatest bubble-popper in the world is virtually everywhere. Soon the derps will either die off or finally get a clue, THEN the last stronghold of the Right Wing (Ignorance and lies) will be shattered forever.

People don't use the Inte ...


Not true.

I used to be a Teabagger.

Then I started noticing disparities in their arguments, not to mention the steeplechasing. Being surrounded by Gunsmiths and lifelong NRA members helped I think.

But yeah, if it wasn't for the internet and Fark I'd probably still be a herpin' derpin' Randian idiot.
2013-10-04 09:17:17 PM
2 votes:

bwilson27: sobriquet by any other name: ItsMyNameYouCantHaveIt: There is SO MUCH freeper butthurt....

--"They may have many "wobblies,"
********
That word is too kind. Their votes could blow up the Republican Party for good. They are only looking out for their own hides and could care less about bigger causes."


**in regards to the list of 18 repubs willing to sign**
--"A handy list for the 2014 cycle. Time to "clean" house."


--"It might seem suicidal but I would insist that the Pubs who break ranks leave the party. If we lose our majority so be it. We are in a fight for our lives. We will have a better opportunity to regain the House and Senate if the public knows the Pubs stand for liberty and an end to tyranny and are willing to fight for it."

Since conservative freepers are so idiotically able to believe everything they read so long as they think it comes from old, spittle-soaked Caucasian gentlemen, i see absolutely no problem having their rank and file (and trolls from across the spectrum) convince them how "right" they are.

it's delicious, seeing how their penchant for dis-believing every piece of math and logic ever makes them infinitely manipulatable... by anyone, for any reason. Up until now, it was to use them to bolster an obviously tired republican wing.. but now i'm convinced the "echo chamber" is running out of oxygen as trolls convince them to breath deeper and deeper. It's surreal, and, did I mention, delicious?

/If you live without regard for math, prepare to be divided
//...facts, too

Plus, the innerwebs leveled the lying game. sure, there are still plenty of old suckers out there too derp to find out the truth, but the rest of the populace is slowly getting this fact. It's hard to live in a bubble when the greatest bubble-popper in the world is virtually everywhere. Soon the derps will either die off or finally get a clue, THEN the last stronghold of the Right Wing (Ignorance and lies) will be shattered forever.


People don't use the Internet to change their minds. They use it to reinforce their worldviews.
2013-10-04 05:15:56 PM
2 votes:
I just watched Boehner and his stupid face give his speech today. Man, he'll never get it, will he? "We just want to sit down and talk". How about you stand up and bring the clean CR to a vote instead? I wish I was standing in that room, I would have been tempted to walk up to the podium and punch him right in the face. I can't wait to see him get his comeuppance when everything is said and done. Roast him over the fire and keep him out of Congress after all this. Can't farking wait.
2013-10-04 05:06:31 PM
2 votes:

SenorBenedict: Why assume this was Boehners idea? The guy is a political coward who doesn't care about hurting america. I severely doubt he had any hand in this and will act all outraged right along the rest of the derp squad.

Put simply Boehner is the worst speaker we've ever had, I can't imagine a real solution could come from him at all.


Agreed. All he cares about is being Speaker, and actually doing anything with that position which might risk him losing it is the last thing on his mind. Then again, what the hell did anyone expect from a man who handed out Tobacco company bribes on the House floor? Rather than being Speaker, the man should have spent the last 20 years in federal prison for official corruption.
2013-10-04 04:43:53 PM
2 votes:

DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.

Yeah that's not good, but I wonder what level it kicks in at. What's the number for the CR under this discharge petition? Sequester levels?


FTFA
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.
2013-10-04 04:38:33 PM
2 votes:

Null Pointer: TV's Vinnie: DamnYankees: Now that's fascinating. Force the moderate GOPers to vote for it.

The extreme cowardice of the non-TB republicans is disgusting! They're rather see America burn to the ground than risk seeing themselves getting primaried by the Teahadists.

To be fair they are looking out for their jobs. They know if the break ranks it will probably cost them their job by getting primaried by the teabaggers next year.


1. They're not doing their jobs. They're just dicking around yet still drawing a check from Uncle Sam. Just like they accuse these alleged "Welfare Queens" of doing.

2. Fine! Let them be replaced by some frothing madman from the Tea Party. The more buttholes in the gop the faster it'll sink into the swamp.
2013-10-04 04:30:28 PM
2 votes:

Bucky Katt: The teabaggers will go nuts.


As opposed to their current state of mental health?
2013-10-04 04:27:40 PM
2 votes:
The teabaggers will go nuts.
2013-10-04 04:15:58 PM
2 votes:

Somacandra: imontheinternet: Yeah, IIRC, the point of the section was for the government to reject explicitly the assumption of Confederate debt, while guaranteeing that all other debts were still owed.

That was certainly the point at the time, but it is still part of the Supreme Law and may apply to other situations as well.


14th Amendment aside, Obama might be able to avoid a default.

Leaving aside the platinum coin gambit (which doesn't appear to break any laws), if we hit the ceiling, the executive branch will have to break some law; it's impossible to follow them all.

If they don't pay everything, they're breaking entitlement or appropriations law. If they take in extra revenue, they're breaking tax law. And if they borrow more money, they're breaking the debt ceiling law.

The least-bad option there is to just ignore the debt ceiling and hold a technically-illegal debt auction.

Unfortunately he's said he won't do this (or mint the coin). I'd sleep better if that was in Obama's back pocket. Though maybe it is, and he's just keeping the pressure on Congress.
2013-10-04 04:03:06 PM
2 votes:

Cork on Fork: BMulligan: my civil procedure prof said "it's better to win on procedure than on the merits."

Your professor sounds lazy and like he didn't care to defend the merits of his cases.


Among the all the myriad ways your comment is wrong, Judge Moore is actually a woman.
2013-10-04 03:54:44 PM
2 votes:

TV's Vinnie: DamnYankees: Now that's fascinating. Force the moderate GOPers to vote for it.

The extreme cowardice of the non-TB republicans is disgusting! They're rather see America burn to the ground than risk seeing themselves getting primaried by the Teahadists.


Not all of them.  Some of them tried to lauch a coup and force a vote on a clean CR on the eve of the shutdown.  Peter King and about 13 others.

Granted, they're still GOPers, so they're retarded conservatives, but they're not insane enough to want to close the government.

The problem is that Boehner won't hold a vote on a clean CR because if he does, the TP will burn him down and replace him with someone else and he 'likes' being Speaker.

This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers.  I did my best."
2013-10-04 03:43:25 PM
2 votes:

KarmicDisaster: jst3p: timujin: jst3p: If there is a loophole, a trick, a backdoor or an underhanded tactic you can bet the democrats will use it.
It's what they do best.
If democrats have a choice of winning fairly or winning by cheating they will pick cheating every time.

You realize this only works if it's truly bipartisan, right?  That they have to have Republican support?  This isn't "cheating", it's circumventing the derp.

I would like to point out that I am copy pastaing freepers. Don't farkie me with derp.

You are going to need therapy and a beer.


I listen to right wing radio in the car too. It is kind of like watching Here Comes Honey Boo Boo, makes me feel better about my life.

Plus I have a couple derpers at work that I like to be out in front of their talking points when we spar.
2013-10-04 03:40:23 PM
2 votes:

Bareefer Obonghit: jst3p: birdmanesq: [i106.photobucket.com image 626x323]

Curious, does anyone know what a "ping list" is in freeper town? I see it mentioned a lot.

Yeah it's a thing that alerts members on the list every time a topic comes up that falls under it. For example, every time a gun issue comes up in FReeperville, anyone on the BANG!! List gets pinged. It's a feature from roughly 2 decades ago.


Freepland is a relic of a time long past, when threaded comments were a distant dream of what the future might look like.

Their denizens are mutated and twisted by long isolation from the rest of the world.  They hate the outside world and blame it for their painful existence.  They are led by a madman and yearn for the end of all existence so that their pain will end.

They are powerless in the larger world, but woe to any who go there in search of Purified Derp, for their threads are a maze and those who try to decipher them often lose themselves to madness and rage.

Venture there only out of necessity, young ones.  Man was never meant to see such things.
2013-10-04 03:39:02 PM
2 votes:

timujin: jst3p: If there is a loophole, a trick, a backdoor or an underhanded tactic you can bet the democrats will use it.
It's what they do best.
If democrats have a choice of winning fairly or winning by cheating they will pick cheating every time.

You realize this only works if it's truly bipartisan, right?  That they have to have Republican support?  This isn't "cheating", it's circumventing the derp.


I would like to point out that I am copy pastaing freepers. Don't farkie me with derp.
2013-10-04 03:36:13 PM
2 votes:

shokokuphoenix: urger: BAHAHAHAHAHA

This begins the great tea bagger butthurt of our time...

/insert obligatory Nelson 'Ha-Ha!' .jpg here


This.

And more and more this pic is just becoming THE image of the Tea Derpers:

img.fark.net

Yeah, it's a bit of a classic, but one good thing that WILL happen is that the split (that at least some antidominionist researchers have seen coming since 2007) will happen and MAYBE what is left of the GOP can divest itself of the dominionist cancer that's been in its ranks since the mid-sixties (at least).

And then MAYBE in about sixty years we can have a political axis of "moderate/centrist right" rather than "far right/neofascist religionationalist". :3
2013-10-04 03:32:23 PM
2 votes:

spongeboob: Infernalist: Guarantee you that this GOPer came to the Dems with this bill in hand and said "This might help."

Guaranteed.

There's no way that the Democrats found this somewhere stuffed away.  This is Boehner's way out.

So you think that Boehner had this planned all along.

What color is the sky in your world?


I'm saying Boehner got backed into this shutdown because the derpers are insane and he likes being Speaker.

I'm saying that either he or another GOP critter found this 'aged' bill sitting around and realized what could be done with it.

I'm saying he's privately backing the CR and has 18 or so GOPers that will fall on a grenade and vote Yes because their seats are relatively safe.

I'm saying he made a deal with Pelosi and the President, allowing the House Democrats to do an end-run around the Speaker's chair and he can look mad about it while privately allowing it so that the country can reopen in defiance of the Derper brigade's insanity.
2013-10-04 03:27:19 PM
2 votes:

imontheinternet: Ah, obscure Congressional procedural rules.  Is there anything you can't do?


When I was in law school, my civil procedure prof said "it's better to win on procedure than on the merits." I thought that was a terribly cynical view, until I suffered the humiliation of having a case dismissed on the eve of trial due to a technical problem with service of process (by this time the statute of limitations had run, so I could not cure the defect). Now I don't know if it's better to win on procedure than on the merits, but I damn sure know that it's worse to lose on procedure than on the merits.
2013-10-04 03:12:55 PM
2 votes:
I'll believe that 17 GOPers will jump ship when I see it.   There are a lot of moderates that talk a big game to the press when it comes to hypotheticals about breaking away from the party, but when it comes nut cutting time they always stick with the herd.    It's hard to get pork projects approved and into your district when you don't have allies on either side of the aisle.

It will be useful for getting some GOP Representatives in blue and purple states on the voting record for closing the doors of government in 2014 Elections, though.
2013-10-04 03:04:52 PM
2 votes:
Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude.
2013-10-04 02:52:51 PM
2 votes:

Somacandra: cman: Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?...The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"

The Executive Branch of government is in charge of executing the laws of the land, including the Supreme Law of Land. Of course any attempt could be challenged in court. It hasn't been tried---it would be new territory.


And wouldn't it be fun seeing the House Republicans run into court to assert their right to touch off a worldwide economic depression?
2013-10-04 02:50:15 PM
2 votes:

sugardave: ariseatex: FTFA:  Dems say that if they get enough signatures, they'd be able to force a vote by October 14th. Given that House Republicans are now talking about letting the government shutdown battle spill into the fight over the debt limit - which expires on October 17th - it's very possible the government could still be closed at that point.

So we're cheering something that couldn't come to fruition for 10 more days?  And this is supposed to be good?

The only "good thing" I could see coming out of this is if enough Republicans sign within hours, Boehner sees it will happen no matter what, at which point he caves and brings the CR to a vote immediately.

So many of us can't wait 10 days.

And the GOP-holes give this many farks about you:


I'll let the rest of you celebrate this in terms of left vs. right.  Right now, IMHO, the Democratic party isn't doing enough to pressure Boehner.  They need to be out front and center going to every news agency with the same argument:  "John Boehner is the ONLY person standing in the way of 800,000 furloughed workers going back to work."  If someone asks about the debt limit, say "John Boehner is the ONLY person standing in the way of 800,000 furloughed workers going back to work."  If someone asks about the weather, say "John Boehner is the ONLY person standing in the way of 800,000 furloughed workers going back to work."  Every tweet, every FB post, needs to be about the #BoehnerShutdown.

Anything less says "We'd rather play politics ourselves with the lives of 800,000 furloughed workers in non-political federal positions, as well as their families."
2013-10-04 02:47:45 PM
2 votes:
fta The irony here, of course, is that Dems are effectively hijacking a Republican bill in an effort to undercut the whole House GOP strategy.

My guess is that the Democrats are focused more on ending the pointless shutdown
2013-10-04 02:46:15 PM
2 votes:
********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.
2013-10-04 02:39:32 PM
2 votes:
Whoever thought this plan up(if it works), I would like to establish a Kickstarter so that we can buy them some good beer.
2013-10-04 02:38:44 PM
2 votes:

DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.


Since I calculate the present likelihood of a debt default to be ~100%, I'm prepared to take that risk.
2013-10-04 02:37:18 PM
2 votes:

DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.


that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.
2013-10-04 02:32:41 PM
2 votes:

Marcus Aurelius: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: shower_in_my_socks: I would prefer that Boehner be forced to do it, sparking a split that makes defaulting on the debt unlikely.

If enough defect, it'll make negotiations more difficult for him during the Debt Ceiling fight as he won't be able to guarantee any votes on anything.

If this happens without Boehner, there may as well be no Speaker of the House.  He'll still be Boehner, but he will have no balls.


Pelosi will make the Dems would support Boehner as Speaker if the Baggers tried to take him out. If they could replace Boehner out easily, they would have done so already.
2013-10-04 02:32:30 PM
2 votes:

thismomentinblackhistory: Hilarious.

I went to a restaurant last night. Every conversation I overheard had to do with the government shutdown. People are really paying attention to this. Now, with Congress in the spotlight, they see one lot of crybabies while the other side actually takes concrete steps to reopen the government.

Will this have an effect on the next election?


In the Senate?  Yes.

In the House?  You might see a few seats switch but the biggest derpers are dug in so deep in very red gerrymandered districts that they have no chance of being ousted.  And even if they are voted out it will be in the primaries and they'll replaced by Tea Partier #2: Electric Derpaloo.
2013-10-04 02:31:51 PM
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Well then why the heck have we been dealin with all of this "Hastert Rule" crap?


Boehner doesn't want to lose his job.

This keeps him from being responsible.

The petition hits the floor, it gets a vote, the 'sane' GOPers under Boehner's leadership will vote JUST ENOUGH 'Yes' votes for it to pass to the Senate...

Boehner gets to vote against it, the CR passes, the TP is enraged, but they can only target SAFE GOPers in safe GOP districts.  Peter King and his cohorts come to mind.

This is a brilliant bit of maneuvering on someone's part.
2013-10-04 02:29:51 PM
2 votes:

DamnYankees: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

It's not that much, I don't think. 120 days until it kicks in, thence 1% every three months.

Oh, I read it wrong. Ok, 4% per year then. Still not good.


Yes, but we are spooling down the war in Afghanistan. Spending is going to drop by at least 4% if we are just standing still.
2013-10-04 02:28:04 PM
2 votes:
circumventing the house majority by getting a majority of the house to vote on the bill
2013-10-04 02:26:48 PM
2 votes:
You couldn't have written this any better.

Republican, go-nowhere, pandering to the base bills have become Chekov's Gun.

I'm seriously just laughing uncontrollably. I hope this works.
2013-10-04 02:26:18 PM
2 votes:

DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.


If that's true, then I hope it happens.  The government gets back to what passes for normal, and the GOP loses - hopefully, they lose all semblance of power.
2013-10-04 02:14:48 PM
2 votes:

nekom: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat:
Because if they win, it's slap in the face to the GOP. If they lose, the GOP looks like they're holding up a compromise.

I don't really think the GOP is going to look any worse.  If the polls are to be believed, most Americans already blame them for the mess.  Guess we'll see how it goes.


I'm of the mentality that if your enemy is to be destroyed, your enemy is to be destroyed utterly.
2013-10-04 02:09:13 PM
2 votes:

nekom: DamnYankees: nekom: I doubt they would have done this if they didn't think they had the votes.

Why not? The Democrats have nothing to be embarrassed about if the vote fails. That's one of the advantages of being in the minority.

No, but why would they bother?  So far the GOP is the one kicking and screaming while the Democrats silently wait.  Why change that?


Because if they win, it's slap in the face to the GOP. If they lose, the GOP looks like they're holding up a compromise.
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-04 02:02:08 PM
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So, they have the votes to re-open, but Boehner won't let it go to the floor?

Christ.  Why does anyone blame anyone other than the GOP for any of this


Because their reality is defined by newsmax, Druge, Fox and others like that.
2013-10-04 01:57:42 PM
2 votes:

DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.

Yeah that's not good, but I wonder what level it kicks in at. What's the number for the CR under this discharge petition? Sequester levels?


Yeah, sequester levels.  It does give 120 days before a reduction, and at only 1% every 90 days after that, there should be plenty of time to pass a new budget, but I have my doubts the House would support anything.

However, once we're clear of the shutdown and the debt ceiling crisis, we can at least go back to good old-fashioned negotiation when it comes to the budget numbers and appropriations.  The Democrats haven't said they're unwilling to negotiate, they're just unwilling to negotiate with their backs against the wall regarding the shutdown or the debt ceiling.
2013-10-04 01:52:31 PM
2 votes:
I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.
2013-10-05 08:06:38 AM
1 votes:

smellysocksnshoes: No. Force Boehner to do it.
If the Democrats  any group of bi-partisan legislators can do it, Boehner   our country saves face with both the tea party and the moderates. the rest of the world and we can begin to have a functioning government again.

Why is it always about "my team"?  While sane people know the GOP is to blame, adults also recognize that
our country wins if there are actually bi-partisan groups that try to govern.


Because the tea party is a cancer that will kill the United States if it isn't dealt with.
2013-10-05 03:04:20 AM
1 votes:

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: The Republicans had done their job according to the US Constitution, they passed a budget in the House, but decided to exercise their right not to fund Obamacare, all other areas of were funded. Reid and Obama decide to go all or nothing strategy and chose to allow the government to shut down. The shutdown is like a dysfunctional family where the wife bans buying of groceries because the husband will not allow her to buy a bottle of perfume.


Let her buy the Obamacare that she has been promised and everyone is happy.
2013-10-05 03:03:25 AM
1 votes:

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: The Republicans had done their job according to the US Constitution, they passed a budget in the House, but decided to exercise their right not to fund Obamacare, all other areas of were funded. Reid and Obama decide to go all or nothing strategy and chose to allow the government to shut down. The shutdown is like a dysfunctional family where the wife bans buying of groceries because the husband will not allow her to buy a bottle of perfume.


Your nose is growing.
2013-10-05 01:37:10 AM
1 votes:

Infernalist: There are just too many people in this world that will lose obscene amounts of money if we default.


This is true. But they're all people like you and me - little people. But the people who matter, the people at the top of the food chain, the people who call the shots? They aren't going to lose a damn thing. Thy're going to snap up assets for pennies on the dollar, and then reap the secondary benefits that come with having hordes of cheap, disposable labor clamoring for crumbs. We'll be lucky if they don't bring back gladiatorial events for their amusement.
2013-10-05 12:50:08 AM
1 votes:

Cpl.D: You can add me to the tally.  I was a red-blooded republican, until one day I noticed my fundie nut relatives and my party all on the same wavelength.  And when I noticed they were apparently legislating for a fictional universe, rather than the one we're in, I pulled the ejection lever so freaking hard on that I split the damn derp express plane in half on the way out.

fark that place.  Srsly.


I always tell people something pulled my head out of the muck and I looked around going "Whoa whoa whoa too far to the right! Stop! Hit the brakes! Wait, is that motherfarker goose-stepping?"
2013-10-05 12:05:15 AM
1 votes:

bwilson27: iq_in_binary: bwilson27: iq_in_binary:

I used to be a Teabagger.

Then I started noticing disparities in their arguments, not to mention the steeplechasing. Being surrounded by Gunsmiths and lifelong NRA members helped I think.

But yeah, if it wasn't for the internet and Fark I'd probably still be a herpin' derpin' Randian idiot.

Duly noted and changed from red 3 to blue 3.

What does red 3 denote for you?


a herpin' derpin' Randian idiot.


Hah!

Now I'm a pro gun control liberal. Funny how shiat works.
2013-10-04 11:33:44 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: cman: mgshamster: BMFPitt: So if this actually works, it just means we'll end the shutdown one day before hitting the debt limit.  Yay, we're saved!

The alternative is having the shutdown going through the debt limit, and automatically defaulting on our loans.

If this happens, you can say goodbye to our economy

The world's economy will take a massive hit as well.  Economic chaos as the world drops the dollar and picks up the Euro or some other currency that's perceived as more stable...

This is why I know they won't let us default.  It won't happen.


You're assuming that the moderate members of the GOP can stop it. So far, they've been largely ineffectual. Honestly, I think these fools are quite willing to auger us into the friggin' ground if it means keeping their ideological purity.
2013-10-04 11:31:29 PM
1 votes:

iq_in_binary: bwilson27: iq_in_binary:

I used to be a Teabagger.

Then I started noticing disparities in their arguments, not to mention the steeplechasing. Being surrounded by Gunsmiths and lifelong NRA members helped I think.

But yeah, if it wasn't for the internet and Fark I'd probably still be a herpin' derpin' Randian idiot.

Duly noted and changed from red 3 to blue 3.

What does red 3 denote for you?


That, while on Kamino, you were Wedge Antilles?
2013-10-04 11:27:51 PM
1 votes:

cman: mgshamster: BMFPitt: So if this actually works, it just means we'll end the shutdown one day before hitting the debt limit.  Yay, we're saved!

The alternative is having the shutdown going through the debt limit, and automatically defaulting on our loans.

If this happens, you can say goodbye to our economy


The world's economy will take a massive hit as well.  Economic chaos as the world drops the dollar and picks up the Euro or some other currency that's perceived as more stable...

This is why I know they won't let us default.  It won't happen.
2013-10-04 11:27:43 PM
1 votes:

bwilson27: iq_in_binary:

I used to be a Teabagger.

Then I started noticing disparities in their arguments, not to mention the steeplechasing. Being surrounded by Gunsmiths and lifelong NRA members helped I think.

But yeah, if it wasn't for the internet and Fark I'd probably still be a herpin' derpin' Randian idiot.

Duly noted and changed from red 3 to blue 3.


What does red 3 denote for you?
2013-10-04 11:17:25 PM
1 votes:

BMFPitt: So if this actually works, it just means we'll end the shutdown one day before hitting the debt limit.  Yay, we're saved!


The alternative is having the shutdown going through the debt limit, and automatically defaulting on our loans.
2013-10-04 11:14:52 PM
1 votes:

cman: qorkfiend: cman: Corvus: cman: Corvus: cman: FlashHarry: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.

Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?

The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"

That's odd since that was passed exactly so the southern states wouldn't be able to black male everyone by not paying the bills, like what is exactly being done today.

It's amazing they put something in an constitution amendment that according to does absolutely nothing. Why would you think they would do that exactly?

Wow, did you actually read the text of the amendment? If so you would come to a conclusion pretty damn quickly: section 5 gives the power to congress to implement the amendment. Congress makes the decision on this.

So according to you after the civil war they north created a system to make it easier for the southern states to blackmail them by defaulting on the debt?

Why the fark would they do that?

Dude, I admit it when I am wrong. Its ok. You can do the same.

And no, your analysis of what I said was incorrect.

I said that the 14th amendment gave no extra power to the President. You claimed otherwise. I pointed out the specific portion where it says you were wrong. Its written in English, and unlike the 2nd Amendment, there really isn't any controversy of such a section. When an amendment says that Congress has the power to implement the amendment, I think it means that Congress has the power to implement the Amendment, not the executive.

Congress gets to ...


Right. By appropriate legislation. Like all other legislative powers, that means that Congress passes a law, and the executive implements it. That's why I was wondering is Congress had enacted legislation that the President would implement in this sort of situation.

If get haven't enacted any legislation, then we're in for an interesting ride.
2013-10-04 10:58:27 PM
1 votes:

cman: Corvus: cman: Corvus: cman: FlashHarry: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.

Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?

The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"

That's odd since that was passed exactly so the southern states wouldn't be able to black male everyone by not paying the bills, like what is exactly being done today.

It's amazing they put something in an constitution amendment that according to does absolutely nothing. Why would you think they would do that exactly?

Wow, did you actually read the text of the amendment? If so you would come to a conclusion pretty damn quickly: section 5 gives the power to congress to implement the amendment. Congress makes the decision on this.

So according to you after the civil war they north created a system to make it easier for the southern states to blackmail them by defaulting on the debt?

Why the fark would they do that?

Dude, I admit it when I am wrong. Its ok. You can do the same.

And no, your analysis of what I said was incorrect.

I said that the 14th amendment gave no extra power to the President. You claimed otherwise. I pointed out the specific portion where it says you were wrong. Its written in English, and unlike the 2nd Amendment, there really isn't any controversy of such a section. When an amendment says that Congress has the power to implement the amendment, I think it means that Congress has the power to implement the Amendment, not the executive.


Congress gets to write the legislation, but the executive gets to implement it. I wonder, has Congress enacted any legislation pursuant to their power under the 14th?
2013-10-04 10:03:26 PM
1 votes:
mgshamster:

You know, I didn't even notice it was Kaiser. I have kaiser, and my costs went down last year and are staying the same this year.

On the other hand, my mom has Kaiser too, through Cal Cobra, and her costs are going from ~$350/mo to ~$700/mo (silver plan). I don't know anything about cobra, though, so I don't know why it was so much cheaper, especially for someone in their 60s with lots of medical issues. Her Cal Cobra ends at the end of the year, and I don't know if that's because of Obama care or if cobra has a time limit and she's reached it.


With Cobra, you end up paying both your part as well as the portion your employer was paying, so it tends to be a lot more out of pocket. Hopefully she will find something cheaper on the exchanges?
2013-10-04 09:41:33 PM
1 votes:

anfrind: timujin: My point was that anecdotal evidence, even yours, doesn't mean much.  Overall, healthcare costs in this country are going to go up, just as they've gone up every year since health insurance was a thing.  Only next year, they're projected to not go up as fast as in the past.  And portents of doom and gloom from "mgshamster's representative" don't change that.

That's a fair point.  I was just trying to show how useless those anecdotes can be.

mgshamster: On the other hand, my mom has Kaiser too, through Cal Cobra, and her costs are going from ~$350/mo to ~$700/mo (silver plan). I don't know anything about cobra, though, so I don't know why it was so much cheaper, especially for someone in their 60s with lots of medical issues. Her Cal Cobra ends at the end of the year, and I don't know if that's because of Obama care or if cobra has a time limit and she's reached it.

I seem to remember that COBRA is intended to let you keep your health insurance after leaving one job (e.g. due to layoffs), so that you can still have coverage until you start a new job and presumably get new insurance through the new employer.  As such, I would expect the rates to be tied to what you were originally paying, but only for a limited time.

I may be wrong, though.  I only briefly looked at COBRA back in 2007 (and ended up not using it), and things have changed a lot since then.


That seems rights. My mom had insurance from her job at Nordstrom, and that's what she was paying then until she left after a job related injury.

I also remember reading something about how Cobra lasts only three years, and that's about how long it's been. I could be wrong, though.
2013-10-04 09:39:20 PM
1 votes:

timujin: My point was that anecdotal evidence, even yours, doesn't mean much.  Overall, healthcare costs in this country are going to go up, just as they've gone up every year since health insurance was a thing.  Only next year, they're projected to not go up as fast as in the past.  And portents of doom and gloom from "mgshamster's representative" don't change that.


That's a fair point.  I was just trying to show how useless those anecdotes can be.

mgshamster: On the other hand, my mom has Kaiser too, through Cal Cobra, and her costs are going from ~$350/mo to ~$700/mo (silver plan). I don't know anything about cobra, though, so I don't know why it was so much cheaper, especially for someone in their 60s with lots of medical issues. Her Cal Cobra ends at the end of the year, and I don't know if that's because of Obama care or if cobra has a time limit and she's reached it.


I seem to remember that COBRA is intended to let you keep your health insurance after leaving one job (e.g. due to layoffs), so that you can still have coverage until you start a new job and presumably get new insurance through the new employer.  As such, I would expect the rates to be tied to what you were originally paying, but only for a limited time.

I may be wrong, though.  I only briefly looked at COBRA back in 2007 (and ended up not using it), and things have changed a lot since then.
2013-10-04 09:35:18 PM
1 votes:

cman: Corvus: cman: FlashHarry: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.

Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?

The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"

That's odd since that was passed exactly so the southern states wouldn't be able to black male everyone by not paying the bills, like what is exactly being done today.

It's amazing they put something in an constitution amendment that according to does absolutely nothing. Why would you think they would do that exactly?

Wow, did you actually read the text of the amendment? If so you would come to a conclusion pretty damn quickly: section 5 gives the power to congress to implement the amendment. Congress makes the decision on this.


So according to you after the civil war they north created a system to make it easier for the southern states to blackmail them by defaulting on the debt?

Why the fark would they do that?
2013-10-04 09:32:51 PM
1 votes:

cman: Corvus: cman: FlashHarry: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.

Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?

The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"

That's odd since that was passed exactly so the southern states wouldn't be able to black male everyone by not paying the bills, like what is exactly being done today.

It's amazing they put something in an constitution amendment that according to does absolutely nothing. Why would you think they would do that exactly?

Wow, did you actually read the text of the amendment? If so you would come to a conclusion pretty damn quickly: section 5 gives the power to congress to implement the amendment. Congress makes the decision on this.


So then according to you it does absolutely nothing?

The congress can decide to follow it or not? That makes no sense.
2013-10-04 09:09:31 PM
1 votes:

Dog Welder: You might see a few seats switch but the biggest derpers are dug in so deep in very red gerrymandered districts that they have no chance of being ousted.


I'm thinking this has gotten so bad that Soros, Fox News, Rush, the RNC, etc will be prepared to thrown down hard against some of the tea party to get mainstream Republicans in.  So some of the t-boys might find themselves primaried.  Especially so in safe red districts.   A lot of it will be subtle, local party bosses being told 'off the record' that their congressperson will never get anything passed so they might as well back the challenger, especially if they want to see that development project funded at the state level.  Logrolling and stuff.

Yes, I know Fox especially is defending the t-party, but that is a show of unity at the moment.  In out of the way, low information primary elections, the shivs will come out.  Hell, you KNOW they're looking for someone to work on taking out Cruz starting in 4 years.  Parties hate people they can't control.
2013-10-04 09:01:10 PM
1 votes:

mgshamster: timujin: anfrind: timujin: bwilson27: mgshamster:
My representative has a list of these. Here's some more:

A man from Sonora writes, "I have just received my projected healthcare cost for this coming year through Kaiser. The premium will be increasing by 43.8%. Healthcare is becoming increasingly unafford ...

What a farking croc. Total and complete bullshiat and lies.

well, anecdotal evidence is a kind of evidence, right?

In the real world, though, health care inflation rates are predicted to slow going into 2014:

https://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=health+care+inflation+histor ic al+data&oq=historical+healthcare+inflation+&gs_l=serp.1.4.0i13i10j0i22 i10i30j0i22i30j0i22i10i30j0i22i30.316184.324764.0.326344.36.31.2.2.2.0 .186.3212.14j17.31.0....0...1c.1.27.serp..9.27.2071.fVHZhyjaSfg

It's also very easy to re-frame the numbers to make it look like they're going up way more than they actually are.  For example, I have a pretty nice health plan through my employer that costs me about $20 per month, but next year the cost-share is changing from 90-10 to 85-15, which means I'll have to pay for 15% of the monthly bill instead of 10%.  Which means that even if the monthly rate doesn't change at all, the amount I pay will go up 50%.

Sounds pretty bad, until you realize that a 50% increase really means that it's going up from about $20/month to $30/month.

My point was that anecdotal evidence, even yours, doesn't mean much.  Overall, healthcare costs in this country are going to go up, just as they've gone up every year since health insurance was a thing.  Only next year, they're projected to not go up as fast as in the past.  And portents of doom and gloom from "mgshamster's representative" don't change that.

No need to use scare-quotes. I'll link to all the derp:

http://mcclintock.house.gov/2013/10/the-real-world-of-obamacare.shtml

/Sorry, on a mobile, can't hyperlink
//Watch out for the Fark inserted spaces


And I'm saying he's a lying liar McLiarson from Liarsville.
2013-10-04 08:48:46 PM
1 votes:

nekom: DamnYankees: nekom: I doubt they would have done this if they didn't think they had the votes.

Why not? The Democrats have nothing to be embarrassed about if the vote fails. That's one of the advantages of being in the minority.

No, but why would they bother?  So far the GOP is the one kicking and screaming while the Democrats silently wait.  Why change that?


Simple. It's the right thing to do. If the Dems can come up with a way to end this, then they should. Anyone not locked onto Fox News knows that Boner could have ended this before it started. A clean CR was ready to go and would have passed IF he would have brought it to the floor.

Bonus for the Dems is that doing the right thing also makes them look good. Right now, the right noise engine is trying to put the blame on everyone but the Republicans (Tea Party especially). Everything the Dems do to try to end this is not just the right thing but counters the noise with reality.
2013-10-04 08:42:12 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So, they have the votes to re-open, but Boehner won't let it go to the floor?

Christ.  Why does anyone blame anyone other than the GOP for any of this


Fox News. Hannity is calling it the Obama Shutdown.
2013-10-04 08:22:53 PM
1 votes:

Phil McKraken: Since the House and Senate disagree to the continuing resolution, they should pass a (temporary) measure to fund government at previous levels.

Is that hard?


That's exactly what the continuing resolution is.

/not sure if serious
2013-10-04 08:09:09 PM
1 votes:

rwhamann: mikeray: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

I love this idea, we already know we have 800,000 non essentials working in the government. this is a way to cut that number 1 percent every 90 days. I am a conservative and don't give a fark who gets the credit for stopping this childish shiat.

Non-essential is absolutely the worst word they could have used.  It implies that these are jobs that could go away.  It's like saying that because you only need a checker and a bagger to check out your groceries, the store no longer needs to employ janitors.


Exactly.

In reality "essential" just means immediately essential.  As in if they aren't on the job the country will go to hell in a hand-basket before they finish the drive home.  There are serious, and in many cases dire, consequences if those 800,000 people are off the job indefinitely.
2013-10-04 08:02:11 PM
1 votes:

rwhamann: mikeray: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

I love this idea, we already know we have 800,000 non essentials working in the government. this is a way to cut that number 1 percent every 90 days. I am a conservative and don't give a fark who gets the credit for stopping this childish shiat.

Non-essential is absolutely the worst word they could have used.  It implies that these are jobs that could go away.  It's like saying that because you only need a checker and a bagger to check out your groceries, the store no longer needs to employ janitors.


Yeah you really have to be an idiot to take the term 'non essential' seriously, here.  I work in scientific research, and all the researchers are considered 'non essential', because they aren't the ones keeping the lights on, the HVAC running, the building secure, etc.  So if you cut all your 'non essential' employees, you would no longer have a research institution, just an empty building properly staffed to keep lights on in empty rooms.
2013-10-04 07:48:44 PM
1 votes:

foo monkey: Dems will end up caving, because they actually care about people being out of work.


To what end?  So they can put everyone out of work on Oct 18?  The Dems are spineless, but you actually have to have something to threaten them with in order to scare them.  This is like putting a loaded gun to your own balls and demanding a ransom.
2013-10-04 07:46:52 PM
1 votes:

foo monkey: Dems will end up caving, because they actually care about people being out of work.


we do care, which is why we can't. Imagine this happpening EVERY SIX WEEKS.

Compassion dictates we show the populace EXACTLY what the House is. Economic Terrorists.

Honestly, the only thing that will alleviate this suffering is to cauterize the wound.
2013-10-04 07:39:19 PM
1 votes:

Target Builder: This might be a bad idea. If the Libs succeed in this the GOP will probably never cooperate or compromise with them again.


Nice!

The concern is duly noted, citizen.
2013-10-04 07:32:25 PM
1 votes:
This might be a bad idea. If the Libs succeed in this the GOP will probably never cooperate or compromise with them again.
2013-10-04 07:32:00 PM
1 votes:

bwilson27: Fireproof: Soo... TFA said they were going to do this this afternoon. What happen?

Not a single Republican crossed over to vote with Democrats today. Republicans are standing firm.


Democrats will bring around the discharge petition over the next seven days. Because Lankford introduced the bill in March, it has already ripened in an initial stage of the discharge process.

Democrats said it could lead to a House vote by Oct. 14
2013-10-04 07:14:20 PM
1 votes:

bwilson27: mgshamster:
My representative has a list of these. Here's some more:

A man from Sonora writes, "I have just received my projected healthcare cost for this coming year through Kaiser. The premium will be increasing by 43.8%. Healthcare is becoming increasingly unafford ...

What a farking croc. Total and complete bullshiat and lies.


well, anecdotal evidence is a kind of evidence, right?

In the real world, though, health care inflation rates are predicted to slow going into 2014:

https://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=health+care+inflation+histor ic al+data&oq=historical+healthcare+inflation+&gs_l=serp.1.4.0i13i10j0i22 i10i30j0i22i30j0i22i10i30j0i22i30.316184.324764.0.326344.36.31.2.2.2.0 .186.3212.14j17.31.0....0...1c.1.27.serp..9.27.2071.fVHZhyjaSfg
2013-10-04 07:03:02 PM
1 votes:
mgshamster:
My representative has a list of these. Here's some more:

A man from Sonora writes, "I have just received my projected healthcare cost for this coming year through Kaiser. The premium will be increasing by 43.8%. Healthcare is becoming increasingly unafford ...


What a farking croc. Total and complete bullshiat and lies.
2013-10-04 07:01:26 PM
1 votes:

mgshamster: Bontesla: mgshamster: mrshowrules: Bareefer Obonghit: DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.

Alright, now this is just hilarious. It feels too funny to be true.

Also, the timing seems perfect.  Fox polls show Republicans tanking.  Fake story about 21 year old getting Obamacare.  Hot mike comment by Paul.  The GOP imploding and the DNC taking action.  I predicted this would be sweeter than SCOTUS holding up individual mandate but this awesome.

Speaking of fake stories, this is one from my representative's website:

"Last month I received a letter from the Human Resources Manager at my place of employment that states I am going to receive a 23% pay cut as a result of Obama Care. They say they are required by the Employer Mandate to provide insurance for every employee or face a fine. My 23% pay cut is equal to $22,000 and will financially devastate my family, as I am the primary income of our family. I tried to explain that I already have insurance through my husband's employer and Blue Cross Blue Shield and I do not need another policy. However, they said Obama Care does not have an option for married employees who are paying for coverage through their spouses' employer. I even offered to pay the $2,000 employer fine instead of being subject to the $22,000 pay cut, but they said that is not an option."

And yes, my rep is one of the tea party derpers.

/I just moved here; please don't blame me.

Oh my god.
That makes me want to set things on fire because I know I'll be hearing about this when I call my grandparents this weekend.

Damn you, Lying Liar!

My representative has a list of these. Here's some more:

A man from Sonora writes, "I have just received my projected healthcare cost for this coming year through Kaiser. The premium will be increasing by 43.8%. Healthcare is becoming increasingly unafford ...


Your first 4 examples should probably apply for coverage through the ACA.
2013-10-04 06:42:27 PM
1 votes:
AurizenDarkstar:

Christ, you had to post that again?  Why do people on the right keep trying to argue something they don't understand (that is, she was making that statement since the healthcare bill was coming from the SENATE and they wouldn't know what was in it until it was brought before the House for reconciliation and/or debate...but then, you knew that, didn't you?)

But I guess if you have to go back 3 years to 1 misunderstood comment, it shows how desperate you are to brand someone as being 'bad' at their job.  Especially since more got done in the House while she was Speaker from 2008-2010 than Boehner has been able to get done in the 3 years since.


No, he's simply an unimaginative liar, like everyone else he admires.
2013-10-04 06:15:55 PM
1 votes:

SnakeLee: If the Tea Party really goes out and primaries every Senator and Representative that voted for the ceiling increase, one of three things will happen:

A.) they will lose their primary attempt and a now emboldened moderate will keep their seat, who now has an axe to grind against the Tea Party with more seniority than before

B.) they will win their primary, but lose to a Democrat in the general

C.) they will win both the primary and the general

Imagine you are at Vegas right now and betting on the outcome of this.  What do you think the odds are that the total number of As and Bs will be greater than the total number of Cs?  I think we've seen how this turns out.  The primary threat only works against a couple of candidates at a time, and even then it usually ends in a B anyways.


There are at least two additional factors.  First, how "red" the district is.  All of the GOP'ers who pushed for the shutdown (the so-called "Suicide Caucus") are in deep-red districts.  I'm not sure how many moderate Republicans are in deep-red districts, but for anyone in such a district, B is very unlikely.

Second, as far as I can tell a government shutdown is harmful to the business interests that traditionally support Republicans,* so a primary challenger who goes up against a moderate Republican who votes for a clean CR won't be nearly as well-funded as the challengers were in 2010 and 2012.  That gives a huge advantage to the incumbent, making A more likely.

* I've heard speculation that the ultra-rich (e.g. the Koch brothers) are making a profit off the shutdown, but I haven't seen any explanation of how they might be doing it.
2013-10-04 06:10:59 PM
1 votes:

MyRandomName: Why is there a newsflash for a legislative maneuver that will fail? We didn't newsflash the house passed bills.


you look rather scared.  maybe you should get yourself a drink and relax.
2013-10-04 06:01:52 PM
1 votes:

MyRandomName: 27 times a democratic led Senate has passred non clean legislation on spending bills. 27. Democrat controlled Congressrs account for 60% of the dirty spending bills. Wsj article today breaking down the legislative history.

Yet here farklibs are once again lying and denying history. Kudos on your applied ignorance.


Your point?
2013-10-04 05:59:14 PM
1 votes:

Cyclometh: timujin: It was water cooler talk a week ago, today the Democrats said they're going to do it.  We'll see how it goes

It'll go exactly nowhere. If the GOP were going to break ranks, they've had chances to do so on amendments offered to bills since the shutdown that would have put the CR ahead.

In short, a Democrat offers an amendment, the Speaker tables it, the member calls for a vote to override the Speaker's tabling of the amendment, and the GOP votes lockstep.

This procedural stunt sounds nice on paper, but it's still dependent on getting a majority of votes, and that's not going to happen until the GOP caves.


If it works, then the Democrats are heroes for trying it and the opposing Republicans look like the intransigent nihilists that they are.

If it doesn't work, then the Democrats are heroes for trying it and the opposing Republicans look like the intransigent nihilists that they are.
2013-10-04 05:52:39 PM
1 votes:

fenianfark: cretinbob: grandma's famous pot pie recipe: Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".

0/10

He's not trolling, that's re-posted Freeper logic. The sad thing is, the Freepers aren't trying to troll, they really mean it. Bless their simple hearts.


Be careful about reposting Freeper shiat. Someone got a lifetime ban for that, though I'm not entirely sure about the logic or rest of the story behind it.

Of course I've been banned from freerepublic.......
2013-10-04 05:47:32 PM
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: and now we bring you:  Man sets himself on fire at the national mall.

WTF people?  O_O


Yeah. Pretty wild.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Park-Police--226512801.html
2013-10-04 05:44:21 PM
1 votes:
and now we bring you:  Man sets himself on fire at the national mall.

WTF people?  O_O
2013-10-04 05:39:38 PM
1 votes:

FueledByEthanol: Yeah, I'd figure Beck to be more of the True Believertm - plus have you SEEN the veins on that man's forehead when he gets worked up?  Smart money says he'll stroke out before the 8 hour mark.


The guy collects Nazi war memorabilia.  Says enough about him, don't you think?
2013-10-04 05:29:29 PM
1 votes:
One of the best things about this workaround is that if it fails, it dooms the 'moderate GOP' line for good.  If you can't be 'moderate' and vote against the extremists in your party, then that whole 'the GOP is under attack by the Teabaggers' nonsense is proved.  So there's a fire underneath some Republican asses for good measure:  put up, shut up, or prepare to deal with this for the next year when the Democrats own your ass.

The Republicans should have just given up on the shutdown today.  They can't win this at all, and with Obama willing to let them dangle in the breeze, there's no good way out.  They've got a year left before Election 2014 and so far they've only given the populace yet another reason to hate them.  These assholes could lose a game of solitaire.
2013-10-04 05:20:10 PM
1 votes:
They're going to have to steam clean after all this is done.

2.bp.blogspot.com
/just started watching
2013-10-04 05:09:44 PM
1 votes:
i42.tinypic.com
2013-10-04 05:05:06 PM
1 votes:
Has this actually started, or is this just water-cooler chatter about what might be possible?

Can they actually get that many GOP members to break ranks? My understanding is that there's been a bunch of attempts to put amendments on existing legislation, which would require a simple majority vote to override Boehner tabling them, and effectively push the CR through the House.

I don't think that if the GOP won't go for that, that we'll see enough votes to go for this.
2013-10-04 04:58:01 PM
1 votes:

RangerTaylor: This is an awesome thread, I've learned more about Congressional procedure than I ever planned to.  Good stuff!

/popcorn


Now, would you like to see how sausage is made?
2013-10-04 04:57:47 PM
1 votes:

sprawl15: Metalupis: Crocodilly_Pontifex: Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.

Indeed. Hooooooooly shiat.

my only question is that if the Dems can gut and replace with a clean CR, can't the Repubs do the same with a defunding amendment as well?

The key here is that there are enough Republicans who want to vote for a clean CR that if it's put up to a vote it'll pass. But normally the Speaker of the House (Boehner) has discretion on what to bring up, and he's following the 'Hastert Rule' which says he won't bring to a vote any bill that isn't supported by the majority of the majority (i.e., if a bill has 49% GOP support and 100% Democrat support, it wouldn't ever be put to a vote). This gets around Boehner's discretionary privileges and forces the bill to the floor regardless of the Hastert Rule.


In addition, this procedure can only be done during a full moon or a new moon.

Once the requisite number of members (one third until 1935, and a statutory majority
thereafter) has signed a petition, the motion is placed on the Discharge Calendar, which
according to House rules is privileged business on the second and fourth Mondays of the
month (but not during the last six days of a session, or before sine die adjournment).(PDF)
2013-10-04 04:57:03 PM
1 votes:

SilentStrider: No. Force Boehner to do it.
If the Democrats do it, Boehner saves face with both the tea party and the moderates.


But then all of the republicans the sign the petition get primaried and replaced with derp, possibly allowing democrats to retake the house in 2014.

If the petition or vote fails then all representative's votes on a clean CR are on record for the next election.
2013-10-04 04:50:53 PM
1 votes:
No matter what, it's temporary. We'll be doing this again in 6 weeks or whenever the CR is up. And before that, when we hit the debt ceiling. Although I hope they amend the bill to include raising the debt ceiling too so at least we'll get a break from Tea Bag hostage tactics a little longer and they'll have to wait a little longer to destroy the economy
2013-10-04 04:50:10 PM
1 votes:

Cork on Fork: BMulligan: if I fail to follow those strictly and exactly I should expect to have my ass handed to me.

You should, yes. But not necessarily your client. The parties deserve to have their claims decided, and that should be what everyone wants. Lawyers should not be glad if the other side blows a filing deadline or screws up service. All that means is that someone with a legitimate complaint lost their chance to have a day in court.

(Criminal law here, so procedural rules will usually lose out to the interest in having issues resolved. But I know civil law is much less flexible)


That was more or less my argument before the Court of Appeals (I handled the appeal and the subsequent petition for discretionary review in the state Supreme Court for free). It turned out just about as well as I expected it would. Actually, I did have one substantive argument available - ironically a procedural one, regarding a pleading entered in the trial court in which both attorneys were required to represent that all parties had been served or waived service, but neither the Court of Appeals not the Washington state Supreme Court found it compelling.

And of course, the client did have a remedy available - she could have sued me for malpractice. Even though the situation was frustrating and embarrassing, I couldn't blame opposing counsel. She was simply doing her job, and she did it well. She waited until the statute had run before she filed her motion, and she won. That's how the game is played, and I knew it all along. Civil litigation is not for the faint of heart. That's why I don't do it anymore.
2013-10-04 04:47:30 PM
1 votes:
This is an awesome thread, I've learned more about Congressional procedure than I ever planned to.  Good stuff!

/popcorn
2013-10-04 04:42:24 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: TV's Vinnie: DamnYankees: Now that's fascinating. Force the moderate GOPers to vote for it.

The extreme cowardice of the non-TB republicans is disgusting! They're rather see America burn to the ground than risk seeing themselves getting primaried by the Teahadists.

Not all of them.  Some of them tried to lauch a coup and force a vote on a clean CR on the eve of the shutdown.  Peter King and about 13 others.



Truly terrifying times we live in when Pete King is seen as the voice of reason.

I really do not see why Cruz hasn't been officially censured yet. He caused a crapstorm and admitted that he had no solution planned. In fact, it seems that he doesn't want to see America get better. We've launched Predator drone strikes on terrorists who have done less damage.
2013-10-04 04:34:18 PM
1 votes:

lockers: I like that the endgame they had planned is having the democrats look even better then they already did.


The sad part is the teabaggers think they won. What they won, I have no idea. This will be epic if it passes. Not only will the government open again, the teabaggers will start eating their own.
2013-10-04 04:33:01 PM
1 votes:

naughtyrev: So what you're saying is, the House is going to force Boehner to discharge?


ewwww

+1
2013-10-04 04:31:40 PM
1 votes:

CheapEngineer: Not only No, but FARK NO. They will let this 1% crap fester for the next 3 years, and IT WILL BECOME THE STANDARD, much the same as the sequester amount has become the baseline.


psst.

Check the section at the bottom of TFA that is next to UPDATE:
2013-10-04 04:29:40 PM
1 votes:

Metalupis: Crocodilly_Pontifex: Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.

Indeed. Hooooooooly shiat.

my only question is that if the Dems can gut and replace with a clean CR, can't the Repubs do the same with a defunding amendment as well?


The key here is that there are enough Republicans who want to vote for a clean CR that if it's put up to a vote it'll pass. But normally the Speaker of the House (Boehner) has discretion on what to bring up, and he's following the 'Hastert Rule' which says he won't bring to a vote any bill that isn't supported by the majority of the majority (i.e., if a bill has 49% GOP support and 100% Democrat support, it wouldn't ever be put to a vote). This gets around Boehner's discretionary privileges and forces the bill to the floor regardless of the Hastert Rule.
2013-10-04 04:29:06 PM
1 votes:

kasmel: qorkfiend: kasmel: Or they could have introduced a new legislative rule that allows a minority leader to call for an up or down vote for bringing a Senate passed bill to the floor. that would only take 7 days.

Except that rule would have to be advanced by the Republican-dominated Rules Committee.

They wouldn't have to advance it, simply agree that it constitutes a rule. The signatures are what advances it...I believe.


I still don't see the Republican-dominated Rules Committee doing such a thing.
2013-10-04 04:28:44 PM
1 votes:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: KarmicDisaster: Things are different at the state level of course, but it shows the type of abuse that the rule is intended to prevent.

I think I remember the Dem minority leader giving an aid the power-of-attorney to fetch his paycheck for him when that was pushed through.  Also, at one point I think the GOPers tried to get away with giving the Sargent-at-Arms Batman-like powers to go across state lines and arrest Dems who refused to come back.


Yes, they did, and Walker also authorized troopers to go to the legislators houses at 4am and try to arrest them there. Pairs of troopers, one to watch the other and report to make sure that they actually went.
2013-10-04 04:28:38 PM
1 votes:

Metalupis: my only question is that if the Dems can gut and replace with a clean CR, can't the Repubs do the same with a defunding amendment as well?


/really can't keep up with all the rules and procedures


Republicans wouldn't need to use the procedure, because they hold the majority. It would be weird though for the eighteen defectors to defect again and try to change the bill they just passed, but nothing would surprise me at this point. But since the House is the only thing Republicans control, their bill would just end up on the pile alongside their forty-some Obamacare repeals, personhood amendments, defunding ACORN again bills, etc.
2013-10-04 04:28:16 PM
1 votes:

CheapEngineer: TuteTibiImperes: DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.

Yeah that's not good, but I wonder what level it kicks in at. What's the number for the CR under this discharge petition? Sequester levels?

Yeah, sequester levels.  It does give 120 days before a reduction, and at only 1% every 90 days after that, there should be plenty of time to pass a new budget, but I have my doubts the House would support anything.

However, once we're clear of the shutdown and the debt ceiling crisis, we can at least go back to good old-fashioned negotiation when it comes to the budget numbers and appropriations.  The Democrats haven't said they're unwilling to negotiate, they're just unwilling to negotiate with their backs against the wall regarding the shutdown or the debt ceiling.

Not only No, but FARK NO. They will let this 1% crap fester for the next 3 years, and IT WILL BECOME THE STANDARD, much the same as the sequester amount has become the baseline.

There they go again, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!

\goddamnit


Keep up.  They're going to strip that '1%' bullshiat and turn it into a plan and simple Clean CR after they get 218 signatures.
2013-10-04 04:26:51 PM
1 votes:

Metalupis: Crocodilly_Pontifex: Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.

Indeed. Hooooooooly shiat.

my only question is that if the Dems can gut and replace with a clean CR, can't the Repubs do the same with a defunding amendment as well?


/really can't keep up with all the rules and procedures


They would have to begin the same process, and they'd need a majority of signatures to do it. Since a majority of signatures would have already been collected in favor of doing the opposite, it seems pretty unlikely the repubs could pull that off, unless some people signed both petitions.
2013-10-04 04:26:44 PM
1 votes:

Metalupis: Crocodilly_Pontifex: Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.

Indeed. Hooooooooly shiat.

my only question is that if the Dems can gut and replace with a clean CR, can't the Repubs do the same with a defunding amendment as well?


/really can't keep up with all the rules and procedures


The petition can only be amended by the sponsors, the two Democrats that are sponsoring it as a petition instead of a normal bill.

This means, they get a chance to amend it and then it's put to the floor for a vote.  No chance to change it or amend it again by either side.
2013-10-04 04:25:50 PM
1 votes:

Metalupis: Crocodilly_Pontifex: Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.

Indeed. Hooooooooly shiat.

my only question is that if the Dems can gut and replace with a clean CR, can't the Repubs do the same with a defunding amendment as well?


/really can't keep up with all the rules and procedures


I will venture a guess:

"Because it has to pass the senate and be not vetoed by Obama"?
2013-10-04 04:20:35 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

It's not that much, I don't think. 120 days until it kicks in, thence 1% every three months.

Oh, I read it wrong. Ok, 4% per year then. Still not good.


Update to the article says the dems will bring his bill up and then amend it to remove the 1% before voting on it....even better
2013-10-04 04:20:03 PM
1 votes:

meat0918: qorkfiend: Infernalist: Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.

That's my general thought.  Or whoever brought it to him pitched it like this:

"John, I know this whole thing has been hard on you.."

"Goddamned Tea Party freaks."

"Right, so here's this bill....Yeah, from March.  Now, remember 2002 when they did the petition against Hastert?"

"Yeah, complete end-run around him, he was...powerless to stop it."

"You see where I'm going with it, then."

"Send this over to Pelosi's office.  Use one of the mail runners, not one of our staffers."

I doubt it. I'm sure both sides have been aware of this for quite some time, because the people who end up in leadership positions in Congress are usually not stupid. Evil maybe, corrupt sure, shortsighted definitely, but not stupid.

The Dems were just waiting for a good moment, letting the shutdown stoke public outrage and ensuring that the blame is mostly fixed on the GOP.

The Republicans are still pushing the bullshiat despite the public turning against them.  They won't stop.


Sure. But they're feeling a lot more heat from their constituents, polls, and the media now than they were on Tuesday. And, the Democrats only need 18 of them to break ranks.
2013-10-04 04:20:01 PM
1 votes:

Witty_Retort: jst3p: Rwa2play: You know, sometimes wrestling is an actual reflection of reality:  The heels (RWers) are angry that the faces (Democrats) are using heel tactics against them.  Too damn funny.

Can you translate this to non-carney?

Heels and faces?


Thank you, that is a fascinating page. I want to learn all those terms and create an alt that only speaks in "wrestling"

"Heel face turn"
"Moral event horizon"
"X-pac heat"

Man that would be so fun.
2013-10-04 04:19:54 PM
1 votes:
Why assume this was Boehners idea? The guy is a political coward who doesn't care about hurting america. I severely doubt he had any hand in this and will act all outraged right along the rest of the derp squad.

Put simply Boehner is the worst speaker we've ever had, I can't imagine a real solution could come from him at all.
2013-10-04 04:18:57 PM
1 votes:

Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.


Indeed. Hooooooooly shiat.
2013-10-04 04:17:35 PM
1 votes:

Carn: Cpl.D: simplicimus: Rwa2play: Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.

I'll go for 6.  Ann Coulter will pop a vein for it.

So you actually think Coulter believes the things she says?

From every credible source I've heard, her TV persona is all an act to sell books to morons.  She plays to their jingoism and paranoia, and she's fleecing the sheep.

Real or not, her man hands are kinda scary


I call 'em freak hands.  And I do like my freaks.  Though whenever you date the freaks, you have to be aware that there's a line separating the freaks from the psychos, and you can't always see that line too well.

/had a knife put to my throat once
//stupid line
2013-10-04 04:17:31 PM
1 votes:

qorkfiend: Infernalist: Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.

That's my general thought.  Or whoever brought it to him pitched it like this:

"John, I know this whole thing has been hard on you.."

"Goddamned Tea Party freaks."

"Right, so here's this bill....Yeah, from March.  Now, remember 2002 when they did the petition against Hastert?"

"Yeah, complete end-run around him, he was...powerless to stop it."

"You see where I'm going with it, then."

"Send this over to Pelosi's office.  Use one of the mail runners, not one of our staffers."

I doubt it. I'm sure both sides have been aware of this for quite some time, because the people who end up in leadership positions in Congress are usually not stupid. Evil maybe, corrupt sure, shortsighted definitely, but not stupid.

The Dems were just waiting for a good moment, letting the shutdown stoke public outrage and ensuring that the blame is mostly fixed on the GOP.


The Republicans are still pushing the bullshiat despite the public turning against them.  They won't stop.
2013-10-04 04:16:22 PM
1 votes:

Ned Stark: Wonder how often "would vote for a clean CR" translates to "would vote for a clean CR brought to the floor by Democrats via an end run around house leadership".

/hope the answer is often enough.


If we make it to the 14th, moderate GOPers will be quietly lining up to sign it.
2013-10-04 04:15:36 PM
1 votes:

jst3p: Rwa2play: You know, sometimes wrestling is an actual reflection of reality:  The heels (RWers) are angry that the faces (Democrats) are using heel tactics against them.  Too damn funny.

Can you translate this to non-carney?

Heels and faces?

2013-10-04 04:13:59 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.

That's my general thought.  Or whoever brought it to him pitched it like this:

"John, I know this whole thing has been hard on you.."

"Goddamned Tea Party freaks."

"Right, so here's this bill....Yeah, from March.  Now, remember 2002 when they did the petition against Hastert?"

"Yeah, complete end-run around him, he was...powerless to stop it."

"You see where I'm going with it, then."

"Send this over to Pelosi's office.  Use one of the mail runners, not one of our staffers."


I doubt it. I'm sure both sides have been aware of this for quite some time, because the people who end up in leadership positions in Congress are usually not stupid. Evil maybe, corrupt sure, shortsighted definitely, but not stupid.

The Dems were just waiting for a good moment, letting the shutdown stoke public outrage and ensuring that the blame is mostly fixed on the GOP.
2013-10-04 04:11:19 PM
1 votes:

Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.


That's the brilliance of the plan.  Gut the bill, amend it to be a clean CR, put it on the floor.

Everyone actually walks away from it looking good and feeling good except the Tea Party Derper brigade.

and fark them.
2013-10-04 04:10:26 PM
1 votes:

simplicimus: Rwa2play: Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.

I'll go for 6.  Ann Coulter will pop a vein for it.

So you actually think Coulter believes the things she says?


From every credible source I've heard, her TV persona is all an act to sell books to morons.  She plays to their jingoism and paranoia, and she's fleecing the sheep.
2013-10-04 04:10:12 PM
1 votes:

birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.


Oh that's badass.
2013-10-04 04:08:18 PM
1 votes:

I Said: I hate that "sequester levels" are the new normal that we have to strive towards. Can't change that at all to make it "full farking funding"?


probably not until the dems regain the house in 2015.
2013-10-04 04:07:57 PM
1 votes:

vernonFL: John Boehner is gonna be *DRUNK* tonight!


True. But his Old Gran-Dad won't taste quite as sweet as what Obama will be having.

i47.photobucket.com
2013-10-04 04:07:57 PM
1 votes:

Somacandra: KarmicDisaster: That's why their pay and benefits should be the first thing cut, so that they aren't in such a hurry to cut everyone else's while they have a secure job.

Difficulty: Congressional pay and renumeration cannot be changed for a current Congress. Only for future sessions.


No doubt that is to prevent the many possible abuses, such as voting themselves a huge pay hike and then quitting, or cutting off the funding of some members but not others (like Walker did in Wisconsin), or requiring unusual conditions for some members to be paid such as having to pick it up in person in front of the body (like Walker did in Wisconsin). Still, I'd like to see them suffer too.
2013-10-04 04:07:36 PM
1 votes:

Rwa2play: Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.

I'll go for 6.  Ann Coulter will pop a vein for it.


So you actually think Coulter believes the things she says?
2013-10-04 04:04:17 PM
1 votes:

imontheinternet: BMulligan: Exactly. By the way, that professor was one of the smartest people I've ever met - graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law where she was the first woman ever elected Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review, clerked for Justice Blackmun, and now sits on the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. Nice as pie, too.

Wow.  That's a helluva resume.


Is she hot?
2013-10-04 04:03:39 PM
1 votes:

kasmel: Or they could have introduced a new legislative rule that allows a minority leader to call for an up or down vote for bringing a Senate passed bill to the floor. that would only take 7 days.


Except that rule would have to be advanced by the Republican-dominated Rules Committee.
2013-10-04 04:03:36 PM
1 votes:

KarmicDisaster: That's why their pay and benefits should be the first thing cut, so that they aren't in such a hurry to cut everyone else's while they have a secure job.


Difficulty: Congressional pay and renumeration cannot be changed for a current Congress. Only for future sessions.
2013-10-04 04:00:57 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: The problem is that Boehner won't hold a vote on a clean CR because if he does, the TP will burn him down and replace him with someone else and he 'likes' being Speaker.


They could vote to remove him easily. But since the Speaker is elected by the entire House, they could not be guaranteed the replacement they want unless they held a supermajority. This is why Boehner failed to oust Gingrich in a coup in the 90s.
2013-10-04 04:00:28 PM
1 votes:

mrshowrules: What is noteworthy about the Freeper comments is a complete lack of optimism.  That is heart warming at least.


Just as long as they're talking. If they get quiet all the sudden, that's when we worry.
2013-10-04 04:00:08 PM
1 votes:
We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.
2013-10-04 03:59:25 PM
1 votes:

birdmanesq: So it's not entirely their fault that they are misinformed.


Freepers? Fark that. Freepers wallow in their misinformation. They liberally coat themselves with it. I got sympathy for Ma and Pa Kettle in East Bumfark, West Virginia, but I got no sympathy for Freepers.
2013-10-04 03:59:05 PM
1 votes:

Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.


Hell, I'll bet at this point that Cruz is happy there's a way out of the mess he caused that doesn't involve him being murdered by his fellow republicans.
2013-10-04 03:58:11 PM
1 votes:

spongeboob: Infernalist: spongeboob: Infernalist: Guarantee you that this GOPer came to the Dems with this bill in hand and said "This might help."

Guaranteed.

There's no way that the Democrats found this somewhere stuffed away.  This is Boehner's way out.

So you think that Boehner had this planned all along.

What color is the sky in your world?

I'm saying Boehner got backed into this shutdown because the derpers are insane and he likes being Speaker.

I'm saying that either he or another GOP critter found this 'aged' bill sitting around and realized what could be done with it.

I'm saying he's privately backing the CR and has 18 or so GOPers that will fall on a grenade and vote Yes because their seats are relatively safe.

I'm saying he made a deal with Pelosi and the President, allowing the House Democrats to do an end-run around the Speaker's chair and he can look mad about it while privately allowing it so that the country can reopen in defiance of the Derper brigade's insanity.

You are saying that the Democrats aren't smart enough to find this bill, but Boehner or another Repbulican were, and not only smart enough to find the bill, but they are giving it to the Democrats because they just love America that much, well not enough to just bring a clean CR to the floor but enough to save it.


YOU just really want Boehner to be the hero in this don't you?


Nope, I'm saying he did this to save the GOP 'and' get the country running again.  It's a mix of self-interest and honest governance.  Because while Boehner is an asshole, he's not an insane asshole who wants to ruin the country.
2013-10-04 03:56:57 PM
1 votes:

imontheinternet: Yeah, IIRC, the point of the section was for the government to reject explicitly the assumption of Confederate debt, while guaranteeing that all other debts were still owed.


That was certainly the point at the time, but it is still part of the Supreme Law and may apply to other situations as well.
2013-10-04 03:56:51 PM
1 votes:

lockers: I bet the GOP is relieved that the democrats are saving them from themselves.


This is likely very much the case for the non-TP caucus GOPers.
2013-10-04 03:54:20 PM
1 votes:

Rwa2play: You know, sometimes wrestling is an actual reflection of reality:  The heels (RWers) are angry that the faces (Democrats) are using heel tactics against them.  Too damn funny.


Can you translate this to non-carney?

Heels and faces?
2013-10-04 03:53:49 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: grandma's famous pot pie recipe: fenianfark: cretinbob: grandma's famous pot pie recipe: Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".

0/10

He's not trolling, that's re-posted Freeper logic. The sad thing is, the Freepers aren't trying to troll, they really mean it. Bless their simple hearts.

What's awesome is that it could be a real Freeper, or one of you farks posting over there.  Poe's law, we'll never know.

Oh, they're very quick to ban anyone who doesn't toe the line.  Multiple purges in the last RNC primary season.  It was a digital Night of the Long Knives.  Repeatedly.  In truth, it's a fascinating study into the conservative mind that is so clear and vile in its expression that simply immersing yourself in the derp now and again will render you all but immune to the tired-ass trolls here on Fark.


It's kind of a shame. In 2003 and 4 it was full of smart, funny people whose politics I disagreed with. It was also instrumental in setting the talking points as opposed to just parroting them.

Then came Rathergate, and it was over very.quickly after that.
2013-10-04 03:52:21 PM
1 votes:

jst3p: Corvus: jst3p: birdmanesq: birchman: The Freepers are NOT going to be happy about this.

Oh, please tell me what they are saying about this. Stay strong. Bring back quotes.

Any democrat who broke ranks would be shot. It's how the communists roll.


Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".

I love how a majority in the house voting for something is considered "cheating" by right wingers.

Yeah there is this gem too:

The dems used some back handed trick to pass Obama care... IIRC L ouise slaughter of NY brain washed some procedure and got it to the senate and back and called it okay to do... and it was passed, by all democrats


Apparently a simple majority vote is now a backhanded trick.


You know, sometimes wrestling is an actual reflection of reality:  The heels (RWers) are angry that the faces (Democrats) are using heel tactics against them.  Too damn funny.
2013-10-04 03:51:01 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Now that's fascinating. Force the moderate GOPers to vote for it.


The extreme cowardice of the non-TB republicans is disgusting! They're rather see America burn to the ground than risk seeing themselves getting primaried by the Teahadists.
2013-10-04 03:51:01 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: mrshowrules: Bareefer Obonghit: DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.

Alright, now this is just hilarious. It feels too funny to be true.

Also, the timing seems perfect.  Fox polls show Republicans tanking.  Fake story about 21 year old getting Obamacare.  Hot mike comment by Paul.  The GOP imploding and the DNC taking action.  I predicted this would be sweeter than SCOTUS holding up individual mandate but this awesome.

I had to look up the Paul comment.

Paul added, "I think if we keep saying, 'We wanted to defund it. We fought for that and that we're willing to compromise on this', I think they can't, we're gonna, I think... well, I know we don't want to be here, but we're gonna win this, I think."

WTF does that even mean?


It means that they are farked.
2013-10-04 03:50:15 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: If this happens imma laugh my ass off


Agreed... GOP is getting played like fiddles. I would be embarrassed for them if they weren't a bunch of mean-spirited, ignorant assholes who deserve whatever they get.
2013-10-04 03:49:56 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: mrshowrules: Bareefer Obonghit: DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.

Alright, now this is just hilarious. It feels too funny to be true.

Also, the timing seems perfect.  Fox polls show Republicans tanking.  Fake story about 21 year old getting Obamacare.  Hot mike comment by Paul.  The GOP imploding and the DNC taking action.  I predicted this would be sweeter than SCOTUS holding up individual mandate but this awesome.

I had to look up the Paul comment.

Paul added, "I think if we keep saying, 'We wanted to defund it. We fought for that and that we're willing to compromise on this', I think they can't, we're gonna, I think... well, I know we don't want to be here, but we're gonna win this, I think."

WTF does that even mean?


May I?

Paul added "I think if we keep saying (to the public) "We wanted to defund it. We fought for that and we're willing to compromise on this (even though that isn't true), I think they (dems) can't (pause, well, the are), we're gonna (not really convinced but trying hard) I think....well I know we dont want to be here (we f*cked) but we're gonna win this, I think (not really but lets be positive).

Just what I took away
2013-10-04 03:49:45 PM
1 votes:

imontheinternet: Ah, obscure Congressional procedural rules.  Is there anything you can't do?


I keep looking at this and thinking "You see GOP, this is why you never go all in on an opponent with two islands untapped."
2013-10-04 03:49:14 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Bareefer Obonghit: jst3p: birdmanesq: [i106.photobucket.com image 626x323]

Curious, does anyone know what a "ping list" is in freeper town? I see it mentioned a lot.

Yeah it's a thing that alerts members on the list every time a topic comes up that falls under it. For example, every time a gun issue comes up in FReeperville, anyone on the BANG!! List gets pinged. It's a feature from roughly 2 decades ago.

Freepland is a relic of a time long past, when threaded comments were a distant dream of what the future might look like.

Their denizens are mutated and twisted by long isolation from the rest of the world.  They hate the outside world and blame it for their painful existence.  They are led by a madman and yearn for the end of all existence so that their pain will end.

They are powerless in the larger world, but woe to any who go there in search of Purified Derp, for their threads are a maze and those who try to decipher them often lose themselves to madness and rage.

Venture there only out of necessity, young ones.  Man was never meant to see such things.


moviecitynews.com
2013-10-04 03:48:38 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: Weaver95: If this happens imma laugh my ass off

It has a history of working.  They pulled it off in 2002 against Denny Hastert.


The screams from the tea derpers alone would make it worthwhile.
2013-10-04 03:48:35 PM
1 votes:

Bontesla: I think there are more than 18 that support the shutdown. Doesn't the 18 refer to the signatories?


Yes.
2013-10-04 03:47:54 PM
1 votes:

jst3p: Corvus: jst3p: birdmanesq: birchman: The Freepers are NOT going to be happy about this.

Oh, please tell me what they are saying about this. Stay strong. Bring back quotes.

Any democrat who broke ranks would be shot. It's how the communists roll.


Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".

I love how a majority in the house voting for something is considered "cheating" by right wingers.

Yeah there is this gem too:

The dems used some back handed trick to pass Obama care... IIRC L ouise slaughter of NY brain washed some procedure and got it to the senate and back and called it okay to do... and it was passed, by all democrats


Apparently a simple majority vote is now a backhanded trick.


I love their logic. Majority voting to get things passed is "cheating" and a "backhanded trick". Holding the use hostage to black mail people into votes is the honest way.

These people have their heads up their ass so far.
2013-10-04 03:47:45 PM
1 votes:

fenianfark: cretinbob: grandma's famous pot pie recipe: Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".

0/10

He's not trolling, that's re-posted Freeper logic. The sad thing is, the Freepers aren't trying to troll, they really mean it. Bless their simple hearts.


What's awesome is that it could be a real Freeper, or one of you farks posting over there.  Poe's law, we'll never know.
2013-10-04 03:47:36 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: If this happens imma laugh my ass off


It has a history of working.  They pulled it off in 2002 against Denny Hastert.
2013-10-04 03:46:50 PM
1 votes:
If this happens imma laugh my ass off
2013-10-04 03:46:50 PM
1 votes:

cretinbob: grandma's famous pot pie recipe: Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".

0/10


He's not trolling, that's re-posted Freeper logic. The sad thing is, the Freepers aren't trying to troll, they really mean it. Bless their simple hearts.
2013-10-04 03:46:16 PM
1 votes:

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Rwa2play: It cuts off one GOP narrative about Democrats refusing to reopen. Also forces the Repubs to put up or shut up.

/doubts it'll work
//still farks over the GOP

The fun thing will be to watch how fast the GOP will have to spin from "Democrats are the reason for this horrible shutdown and killing kids with cancer" to "Democrats want to fund everything at once and save kids with cancer, but this is now bad." If the bill passes, the GOP takes one on the jaw, hard. If the bill fails, there's yet another mental lurch they have to make to get back to "Democrats are the reason for this horrible shutdown."

The GOP looks like idiots or assholes regardless.


They have gone way beyond caring about stuff like that.
2013-10-04 03:45:07 PM
1 votes:

Corvus: jst3p: birdmanesq: birchman: The Freepers are NOT going to be happy about this.

Oh, please tell me what they are saying about this. Stay strong. Bring back quotes.

Any democrat who broke ranks would be shot. It's how the communists roll.


Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".

I love how a majority in the house voting for something is considered "cheating" by right wingers.


Yeah there is this gem too:

The dems used some back handed trick to pass Obama care... IIRC L ouise slaughter of NY brain washed some procedure and got it to the senate and back and called it okay to do... and it was passed, by all democrats


Apparently a simple majority vote is now a backhanded trick.
2013-10-04 03:45:02 PM
1 votes:

cman: FlashHarry: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.

Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?

The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"


That's odd since that was passed exactly so the southern states wouldn't be able to black male everyone by not paying the bills, like what is exactly being done today.

It's amazing they put something in an constitution amendment that according to does absolutely nothing. Why would you think they would do that exactly?
2013-10-04 03:44:40 PM
1 votes:

spongeboob: parasol: DamnYankees: Infernalist: This is a brilliant maneuver, whoever thought it up.

Boehner will tell his GOPers to figure out who's in the safest districts that still listen to him and have them vote 'Yes' on the clean CR.

Boehner will make all kinds of loud and angry noises about being circumvented and then shrug his shoulders helplessly at the TP as the CR passes.  "Sorry, I tried!"

The problem for the GOP on this is that they have based their entire policy worldview around the ability of them to control the CR and the debt ceiling is leverage points to get concessions. If they lose control of that, then they literally have nothing. They have absolutely no way of getting policy to move towards them. They have a majority with 0 ways to use it.

What does it profit a man that he gain the world yet lose his soul?

Well if profits him one world for starters.


I'm pretty sure that puts you in a higher tax bracket.
2013-10-04 03:44:35 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: mrshowrules: Bareefer Obonghit: DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.

Alright, now this is just hilarious. It feels too funny to be true.

Also, the timing seems perfect.  Fox polls show Republicans tanking.  Fake story about 21 year old getting Obamacare.  Hot mike comment by Paul.  The GOP imploding and the DNC taking action.  I predicted this would be sweeter than SCOTUS holding up individual mandate but this awesome.

I had to look up the Paul comment.

Paul added, "I think if we keep saying, 'We wanted to defund it. We fought for that and that we're willing to compromise on this', I think they can't, we're gonna, I think... well, I know we don't want to be here, but we're gonna win this, I think."

WTF does that even mean?


It means their leadership is mostly concerned with winning the Poll war.  And they're losing it horribly.
2013-10-04 03:43:22 PM
1 votes:

mrshowrules: Bareefer Obonghit: DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.

Alright, now this is just hilarious. It feels too funny to be true.

Also, the timing seems perfect.  Fox polls show Republicans tanking.  Fake story about 21 year old getting Obamacare.  Hot mike comment by Paul.  The GOP imploding and the DNC taking action.  I predicted this would be sweeter than SCOTUS holding up individual mandate but this awesome.


I had to look up the Paul comment.

Paul added, "I think if we keep saying, 'We wanted to defund it. We fought for that and that we're willing to compromise on this', I think they can't, we're gonna, I think... well, I know we don't want to be here, but we're gonna win this, I think."

WTF does that even mean?
2013-10-04 03:42:08 PM
1 votes:

cman: FlashHarry: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.

Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?

The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"


So according to you the Republicans then are being disobeying the constitution then?
2013-10-04 03:40:28 PM
1 votes:

jst3p: birdmanesq: birchman: The Freepers are NOT going to be happy about this.

Oh, please tell me what they are saying about this. Stay strong. Bring back quotes.

Any democrat who broke ranks would be shot. It's how the communists roll.


Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".


I love how a majority in the house voting for something is considered "cheating" by right wingers.
2013-10-04 03:36:17 PM
1 votes:

Bareefer Obonghit: DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.

Alright, now this is just hilarious. It feels too funny to be true.


Also, the timing seems perfect.  Fox polls show Republicans tanking.  Fake story about 21 year old getting Obamacare.  Hot mike comment by Paul.  The GOP imploding and the DNC taking action.  I predicted this would be sweeter than SCOTUS holding up individual mandate but this awesome.
2013-10-04 03:34:08 PM
1 votes:
This is so freaking brilliant, if the Democrats pull it off they should toast with Guinness.

Seriously if this works the tea baggers heads will asplode and they will be vowing to primary any repub who votes or voted  for it.

Boehner is screwed he wants to get things done but the nutcases they let into the party won't let him.
2013-10-04 03:33:55 PM
1 votes:

lockers: jst3p: If democrats have a choice of winning fairly or winning by cheating they will pick cheating every time.

I like the reality distortion of that comment. The democrats have already "won" politically. Now they are trying to end the punishment happening to the public.


The statement is derp on a number of levels. Who would cheat if they could win honestly? Who would actually believe anyone else, even their opposition, would do that?
2013-10-04 03:33:16 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: lordluzr: And we're just now thinking of this because...?

Because none of the Democrats' bills were 'aged' enough and no one thought to check GOP bills.


That's a huge mistake on the Dems' part.  They should, at all times, be researching what options they have to cut the GOP out of the decision making process.  That should constitute at least 1/3 of their efforts at any given moment.
2013-10-04 03:31:55 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: nekom: I doubt they would have done this if they didn't think they had the votes.

Why not? The Democrats have nothing to be embarrassed about if the vote fails. That's one of the advantages of being in the minority.


This.  Plus, Republicans voted to threaten a Government shut-down.  Let's see the names of those voting to keep it closed.
2013-10-04 03:30:35 PM
1 votes:
Seems like the trolls haven't gotten their talking points fed to them by the shepard yet.

Not enough butthurt in here.
2013-10-04 03:29:18 PM
1 votes:
i106.photobucket.com
2013-10-04 03:28:45 PM
1 votes:

kasmel: Or they could have introduced a new legislative rule that allows a minority leader to call for an up or down vote for bringing a Senate passed bill to the floor. that would only take 7 days.


F*cking legislatures.

Next time a customer asks when they can have the fix for the bug they reported, I'm gonna tell them their bug has to "age" 30 days before I can look at it. Unless they file a different kind of bug report for the same issue on a totally different system. Then I can pick it up in just 7 days.

I'm guessing that wouldn't go over so well at my job.
2013-10-04 03:24:58 PM
1 votes:

jst3p: jst3p: birdmanesq: birchman: The Freepers are NOT going to be happy about this.

Oh, please tell me what they are saying about this. Stay strong. Bring back quotes.

Any democrat who broke ranks would be shot. It's how the communists roll.


Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".


If there is a loophole, a trick, a backdoor or an underhanded tactic you can bet the democrats will use it.
It's what they do best.
If democrats have a choice of winning fairly or winning by cheating they will pick cheating every time.


Yeah, Gerrymandering isn't cheating at all!  No!!! Not by a long shot!!!!
2013-10-04 03:19:44 PM
1 votes:
Good! The Teabagger terrorists need to be stopped.
2013-10-04 03:14:45 PM
1 votes:

mikeray: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

I love this idea, we already know we have 800,000 non essentials working in the government. this is a way to cut that number 1 percent every 90 days. I am a conservative and don't give a fark who gets the credit for stopping this childish shiat.


What the fark is a "non-essential"? I can't stand when people say ignorant shiat like this. You're talking about PEOPLE, not lego blocks. What isn't essential to me may be VERY essential to you. Stop being lazy about cutting waste. You and your kind have to get it through your heads that THERE IS NO EASY SOLUTION. Stop trying these general sweeps of layoffs and department closures. You'll have to go into each segment of the govenrment, find out what it is they do, and decide whether or not it can be done as effectively or more efficiently with fewer people or less resources. Just telling everyone they have 10% less money to get shiat done is STUPID and counter-productive.
2013-10-04 03:13:34 PM
1 votes:
The freepers are full of terrified thunder and fury.

here are the GOPers they're suggesting will vote 'Yes'

Peter T. King of New York,
Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania,
Michael G. Grimm of New York,
Mike Simpson of Idaho,
Devin Nunes of California,
C.W. Bill Young of Florida,
Erik Paulsen of Minnesota,
Frank A. LoBiondo of New Jersey,
Leonard Lance of New Jersey,
Jon Runyan of New Jersey,
Lou Barletta of Pennsylvania,
Jim Gerlach of Pennsylvania,
Michael G. Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania,
Patrick Meehan of Pennsylvania,
Frank R. Wolf of Virginia,
J. Randy Forbes of Virginia,
Rob Wittman of Virginia and
Scott Rigell of Virginia.
2013-10-04 03:11:49 PM
1 votes:
Wait. The democrats' solution is to bring us to sequester funding levels. That makes sequester the new status quo. That means that Republicans have successfully shut down a number of government programs.

I don't like this solution at all.
2013-10-04 03:05:57 PM
1 votes:
So, just to get this straight.  We pass a law that used to be the Repub's, then they freak out and cause a shutdown over it, and we're going to again turn to their legislation to reopen it.

Not sure if pleased that we are beating them with their own bills, or sad that the only bills we are passing used to be theirs.
2013-10-04 03:04:30 PM
1 votes:

birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.


Excellent; no need to give in to the austerity freaks.
2013-10-04 03:03:56 PM
1 votes:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: So did they just discover they can do this?  Why wasn't a plan put in place to do this on Sep 30?


They were looking for a bill that was aged at least 30 days.  The one the Senate had passed wasn't ripe enough yet.  There's also some ridiculousness about which days they can vote on this.  It's pretty wonky and I wonder if these "moderate" GOPers who say they will vote for a clean bill will actually nut up and vote for it.  That would mean going against the Tea Baggers and Failure In Charge Boehner.

It also puts spending at levels the Dems don't necessarily want, but may be willing to live with to end the shut down so they don't carry any of the burden for starting this.  So the Republicans will sort of win even if they lose on this.  I don't think they will, though.  I bet they stay in lock step with Boehner and then they will really just have to own the shutdown 100%, IMO.
2013-10-04 03:02:52 PM
1 votes:

SoupGuru: This will force Boehner to do something. If this happens, the Dems get all the credit for opening government.


On the contrary, this will allow Boehner to vote 'No' on the petition, it'll allow a majority of GOPers to vote 'No' on the petition, and allow 18 'safe' GOPers to vote 'Yes' on the petition and the clean CR passes.

Boehner will be shielded from reprisal, the GOP looks united again, the TPers rage but only against a handful of GOP reps and the country's government reopens.

It's kabuki theater, but it gets the country running again.  fark it, let's do it.
2013-10-04 03:01:15 PM
1 votes:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: So did they just discover they can do this?  Why wasn't a plan put in place to do this on Sep 30?


FTA: Previously, it was thought this could not work, because a discharge petition takes 30 legislative days to ripen, so if this were tried with the clean CR that passed the Senate, this couldn't bear fruit until some time in November.
2013-10-04 03:00:59 PM
1 votes:
Anyone know how long we've been operating on CRs? Put another way, when was the last time Congress passed a budget?
2013-10-04 03:00:45 PM
1 votes:

Mike_1962: TheShavingofOccam123: And I bet the Speaker of the House has the power to table or kill any pending legislation. And he'll do it.

Not a discharge petition. Its the one way around the speaker. Normally the bill being voted for has to kick around for ninty days without a vote, but the Democrats are using a preexisting bill. If the petition gets a simple majority of support, they then amend it as needed and vote.


Exactly.  And it's a GOP bill.  This tells me that a GOP critter remembered this bill and reminded everyone about how to get around the Speaker's position.
2013-10-04 02:59:35 PM
1 votes:

Skarekrough: If this works you're going to see Derp go to unprecedented levels, you know this, right?

Were talking FOX News and InforWars in overdrive, Glen Beck strangling puppies on the air and nothing but the sound of Hoveround's evacuating government buildings after they set them ablaze.....


Beck is going to have to really work hard to beat the "jar of pee with Obama in it" show.
2013-10-04 02:59:29 PM
1 votes:

Skarekrough: If this works you're going to see Derp go to unprecedented levels, you know this, right?

Were talking FOX News and InforWars in overdrive, Glen Beck strangling puppies on the air and nothing but the sound of Hoveround's evacuating government buildings after they set them ablaze.....


Fox News has officially turned on the Derpers.  The Establishment GOP has declared them apostate and they're being thrown under the bus.

Beck might rage, but that's his job.  Fox has begun the process of reminding the GOP voters that the derpers are insane.
2013-10-04 02:56:34 PM
1 votes:

Rwa2play: Bareefer Obonghit: DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.

Alright, now this is just hilarious. It feels too funny to be true.

Oh, that's just farking beautiful.  The heads of the House GOPers are going to essplode Scanners style over this.


And I guarantee you, a GOPcritter brought this to Boehner and he sent it across to Pelosi.

He has to find a way out of this, but he can't because of the TP.  This way, he can get out of it, he can get the sane GOPers out of this mess and he can safely shield himself from reprisal because this petition is an end-run around the Speaker's position.  He's powerless to stop it, so they can't truly rage at him over it.

It allows the GOP to look tough and still allow the CR to pass.  At most, there will be rage at 18 GOPers who vote 'Yes' on the petition, but I guarantee, they'll be in the safest districts that aren't TP-aligned.
2013-10-04 02:56:02 PM
1 votes:

ariseatex: LouDobbsAwaaaay: So did they just discover they can do this?  Why wasn't a plan put in place to do this on Sep 30?

I really think best-case-scenario for us is that they seriously didn't discover this until just now.  Or a shier Rep thought about it but figured if it was possible it would've been done by now, so they kept quiet until recently.


I'm going with a mix of "They didn't really think that the GOP (farking coonts) wouldn't go all the way through with it" and "They had themselves a Jim Carrey Me, Myself, and Irene moment".
2013-10-04 02:55:40 PM
1 votes:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: So did they just discover they can do this?  Why wasn't a plan put in place to do this on Sep 30?


Because nobody expected the GOP to go full retard.
2013-10-04 02:55:18 PM
1 votes:

Rwa2play: It cuts off one GOP narrative about Democrats refusing to reopen. Also forces the Repubs to put up or shut up.

/doubts it'll work
//still farks over the GOP


The fun thing will be to watch how fast the GOP will have to spin from "Democrats are the reason for this horrible shutdown and killing kids with cancer" to "Democrats want to fund everything at once and save kids with cancer, but this is now bad." If the bill passes, the GOP takes one on the jaw, hard. If the bill fails, there's yet another mental lurch they have to make to get back to "Democrats are the reason for this horrible shutdown."

The GOP looks like idiots or assholes regardless.
2013-10-04 02:54:04 PM
1 votes:

parasol: What does it profit a man that he gain the world yet lose his soul?


Matthew 16:26, I believe.
2013-10-04 02:52:59 PM
1 votes:
Ohmahgod.  Posting in a potentially epic thread.  Get the conservative-tear-catches ready!
2013-10-04 02:52:29 PM
1 votes:

CreampuffCasperMilktoast: My guess is that they'll start attaching items to this bill, which would make it too ridiculous to pass.

/Oh look at that, funding for a webcam in Mila Kunis's shower. Excellent.
//Grants to research the creation of a bacon flavored toothpaste? Terrific


The petition can't be altered until it comes up with 218 signatures and can only be altered by those that filed the petition vote, a couple of Democrats.
2013-10-04 02:48:30 PM
1 votes:

birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.


Thank goodness.  Otherwise the Teatards will hold the budget negotiations hostage and spin out the clock for the small reductions if they don't get the big ones they wanted.

Compare it to now: time is against the Teatards because they aren't getting anything from the delay.  The Dems aren't moving and they are looking more and more stupid.  If there was an automatic budget reduction then the Dems would be slightly disadvantages because if they didn't do SOMETHING then they know the GOP can get an automatic win by just sitting on their hands and demanding a colony on the Sun....
2013-10-04 02:48:08 PM
1 votes:
Hey GOP, Atari!

upload.wikimedia.org
2013-10-04 02:46:43 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: That's true, but speakers needs to be elected by a majority of the whole house. So they always come from the majority party.


Which may eventually fall apart as it becomes more evident that you're really the minority party caucusing with the batshiatinsane party in order to maintain an ever-more tenuous grip on power.
2013-10-04 02:44:24 PM
1 votes:

I alone am best: cameroncrazy1984: mikeray: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

I love this idea, we already know we have 800,000 non essentials working in the government. this is a way to cut that number 1 percent every 90 days. I am a conservative and don't give a fark who gets the credit for stopping this childish shiat.

So you're completely OK with all of the national parks being shut down and not in use at all?

The democrats didnt mind, why shouldnt he?


You serious, Clark?
2013-10-04 02:44:18 PM
1 votes:

KarmicDisaster: BMulligan: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

Since I calculate the present likelihood of a debt default to be ~100%, I'm prepared to take that risk.

Yup, they were just going to let us default to destroy the country anyway, that's the Teaparty goal.


And I might add, at least this way this forces the Republicans to actually do the default and show that they are responsible, which should help their public opinion polls even more.
2013-10-04 02:42:27 PM
1 votes:

Clutch2013: TheShavingofOccam123: And I bet the Speaker of the House has the power to table or kill any pending legislation. And he'll do it.

And he'll do so at the cost of his career, because the PR alone would sink him.

This is the point in the movie where the hero's managed to snatch a gun from one of the guards, and now it's gone from being a hostage situation to a Mexican standoff.


To further illustrate: this is the point in Face/Off where Gina Gershon walks in and blows Travolta's plan to shiat.
2013-10-04 02:41:26 PM
1 votes:

Clutch2013: TheShavingofOccam123: And I bet the Speaker of the House has the power to table or kill any pending legislation. And he'll do it.

And he'll do so at the cost of his career, because the PR alone would sink him.

This is the point in the movie where the hero's managed to snatch a gun from one of the guards, and now it's gone from being a hostage situation to a Mexican standoff.


The whole point to this 'petition' thing as I understand it, is that it circumvents the normal House procedure and puts the vote on the floor, without input from the Speaker.

It is, figurative, out of his hands completely.
2013-10-04 02:40:52 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.


So they should put a bill in now to take care of that issue in 30 days in the same manner.
2013-10-04 02:40:00 PM
1 votes:
FTFA:  Dems say that if they get enough signatures, they'd be able to force a vote by October 14th. Given that House Republicans are now talking about letting the government shutdown battle spill into the fight over the debt limit - which expires on October 17th - it's very possible the government could still be closed at that point.

So we're cheering something that couldn't come to fruition for 10 more days?  And this is supposed to be good?

The only "good thing" I could see coming out of this is if enough Republicans sign within hours, Boehner sees it will happen no matter what, at which point he caves and brings the CR to a vote immediately.

So many of us can't wait 10 days.
2013-10-04 02:39:42 PM
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: History lesson:

[i44.tinypic.com image 519x283]


Yes, indeed. Another interesting thing to note is that the man who led the charge for "reform" was none other than James Inhofe, back when he was a Representative.

I wonder who the 18 Republicans the Democrats think will sign the discharge petition.
2013-10-04 02:39:23 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: They'll have to do it the old fashioned way.  Negotiate in good faith with the Democrats so that both sides get something that they want.


There's absolutely no reason to think they are capable of doing this. They haven't done it since the 90s.
2013-10-04 02:39:13 PM
1 votes:

TheShavingofOccam123: And I bet the Speaker of the House has the power to table or kill any pending legislation. And he'll do it.


And he'll do so at the cost of his career, because the PR alone would sink him.

This is the point in the movie where the hero's managed to snatch a gun from one of the guards, and now it's gone from being a hostage situation to a Mexican standoff.
2013-10-04 02:38:13 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Infernalist: This is a brilliant maneuver, whoever thought it up.

Boehner will tell his GOPers to figure out who's in the safest districts that still listen to him and have them vote 'Yes' on the clean CR.

Boehner will make all kinds of loud and angry noises about being circumvented and then shrug his shoulders helplessly at the TP as the CR passes.  "Sorry, I tried!"

The problem for the GOP on this is that they have based their entire policy worldview around the ability of them to control the CR and the debt ceiling is leverage points to get concessions. If they lose control of that, then they literally have nothing. They have absolutely no way of getting policy to move towards them. They have a majority with 0 ways to use it.


They'll have to do it the old fashioned way.  Negotiate in good faith with the Democrats so that both sides get something that they want.
2013-10-04 02:36:45 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: So, they have the votes to re-open, but Boehner won't let it go to the floor?

Christ.  Why does anyone blame anyone other than the GOP for any of this


I don't know where you've been, but there is a Black man occupying the White House.
2013-10-04 02:33:26 PM
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.


You can have your cake but in order to eat it someone has to take a big shiat on it first.

Thats Washington's way
2013-10-04 02:33:23 PM
1 votes:
I'm so conflicted.

On one hand the House Republicans are trying so hard to completely sever their foot with bullets, but on the other hand their aim is so bad the ricochet is injuring bystanders.
2013-10-04 02:33:01 PM
1 votes:

Infernalist: This is a brilliant bit of maneuvering on someone's part.


Nancy Pelosi is extremely good at her job.
2013-10-04 02:32:44 PM
1 votes:
Republicans are nowhere near the same league as Democrats.

It's amazing.

/and a little frightening
2013-10-04 02:32:04 PM
1 votes:

thismomentinblackhistory: Will this have an effect on the next election?


You'll still vote for Kang, I'll still vote for Kodos, and life will go on.
2013-10-04 02:30:55 PM
1 votes:

urger: BAHAHAHAHAHA


This begins the great tea bagger butthurt of our time...

/insert obligatory Nelson 'Ha-Ha!' .jpg here
2013-10-04 02:30:52 PM
1 votes:

mikeray: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

I love this idea, we already know we have 800,000 non essentials working in the government. this is a way to cut that number 1 percent every 90 days. I am a conservative and don't give a fark who gets the credit for stopping this childish shiat.


So you're completely OK with all of the national parks being shut down and not in use at all?
2013-10-04 02:30:28 PM
1 votes:

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: Republican, go-nowhere, pandering to the base bills have become Chekov's Gun.


That's the most apt description yet.
2013-10-04 02:30:01 PM
1 votes:
Well then why the heck have we been dealin with all of this "Hastert Rule" crap?
2013-10-04 02:29:16 PM
1 votes:
Hilarious.

I went to a restaurant last night. Every conversation I overheard had to do with the government shutdown. People are really paying attention to this. Now, with Congress in the spotlight, they see one lot of crybabies while the other side actually takes concrete steps to reopen the government.

Will this have an effect on the next election?
2013-10-04 02:28:44 PM
1 votes:

Jackson Herring: circumventing the house majority by getting a majority of the house to vote on the bill


It's just crazy enough to work.
2013-10-04 02:28:38 PM
1 votes:
3.bp.blogspot.com

Verrrrry Interesting. But stupid.
2013-10-04 02:27:28 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.


Much better...
2013-10-04 02:26:27 PM
1 votes:
Sh*t just got real.
Real cool.
2013-10-04 02:25:20 PM
1 votes:
YAY saved by a a bill submitted back in March by GOP Rep James Lankford.  Nice foresight, sir.
2013-10-04 02:24:57 PM
1 votes:
Before I read the article I was hoping a discharge petition was a way to discharge Boehner as speaker, this isn't quite as good but works in my book.
2013-10-04 02:24:51 PM
1 votes:
My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.
2013-10-04 02:24:10 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

The first 1% drop isn't until 120 days in, and then it's 1% down every 90 days.  So, after 1 year if nothing is done it would be down 3%, with another 1% drop looming.


And the GOP still have the power, and the government slowly dies, and the GOP have plenty of time to pin it on the Dems, who will, as usual, let them while simultaneously shooting themselves in the foot at every opportunity.
2013-10-04 02:23:48 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: UPDATE: Roll Call reporting the Dems would actually amend Lankford's bill and replace it with the CR the Senate passed. So it'd be a clean CR, without the "drop by 1% every 90 days" crap.


Alright, now this is just hilarious. It feels too funny to be true.
2013-10-04 02:23:04 PM
1 votes:
Good. I'm sick and tired of all the discharge that's been emanating from Congressional Teabaggers in recent days.
2013-10-04 02:23:04 PM
1 votes:
And here.....we......go.
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-04 02:22:26 PM
1 votes:
I think this will be resolved, but the mere fact that this group of radicals is willing to try something so radical means that they will try again.

These people want a fight and they are going to get it sooner or later.  They will force a constitutional crisis.
2013-10-04 02:20:54 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.


The first 1% drop isn't until 120 days in, and then it's 1% down every 90 days.  So, after 1 year if nothing is done it would be down 3%, with another 1% drop looming.
2013-10-04 02:20:27 PM
1 votes:
FTA: The irony here, of course, is that Dems are effectively hijacking a Republican bill in an effort to undercut the whole House GOP strategy.

Completely agree with you there, abb3w.

It's absolutely beautiful!

global3.memecdn.com
2013-10-04 02:12:25 PM
1 votes:

nekom: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat:
Because if they win, it's slap in the face to the GOP. If they lose, the GOP looks like they're holding up a compromise.

I don't really think the GOP is going to look any worse.  If the polls are to be believed, most Americans already blame them for the mess.  Guess we'll see how it goes.


GOP: Challenge Accepted.
2013-10-04 02:03:22 PM
1 votes:

nekom: I doubt they would have done this if they didn't think they had the votes.


or they hope to force the GOP to realize there is a chance to force the vote and thus take action to save face ala the hot mic Rand Paul comments
2013-10-04 02:03:12 PM
1 votes:

nekom: I doubt they would have done this if they didn't think they had the votes.


Why not? The Democrats have nothing to be embarrassed about if the vote fails. That's one of the advantages of being in the minority.
2013-10-04 02:02:34 PM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.

Yeah that's not good, but I wonder what level it kicks in at. What's the number for the CR under this discharge petition? Sequester levels?


Yep, the article says it's sequester levels.
2013-10-04 01:58:05 PM
1 votes:
So what you're saying is, the House is going to force Boehner to discharge?
2013-10-04 01:58:01 PM
1 votes:

markie_farkie: The bill in question is the "Government Shutdown Prevention Act," which was introduced in March by GOP Rep. James Lankford of Oklahoma.


ohhhhhh
2013-10-04 01:52:43 PM
1 votes:
Too cool.
2013-10-04 01:51:31 PM
1 votes:
BAHAHAHAHAHA
 
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