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(Washington Post) NewsFlash BREAKING: House Democrats announce they will bring discharge petition to the floor of the House to pass a clean CR, circumventing the Speaker and the House Majority   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 718
    More: NewsFlash, Chambers of parliament, Democrats, Republican, continuing resolution, House GOP  
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13096 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2013 at 2:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-10-04 04:40:14 PM  

jst3p: jst3p: birdmanesq: birchman: The Freepers are NOT going to be happy about this.

Oh, please tell me what they are saying about this. Stay strong. Bring back quotes.

Any democrat who broke ranks would be shot. It's how the communists roll.


Yup, typical liberal strategy.
They know their logic is a joke.
Along with their intellect.
So, the only solution in to make sure that weak minded bimbos and bimboys get into congress, and then cheat, cheat, cheat.
Won't last much longer, libs. The last straw is coming, and then you will "live in interesting times".


If there is a loophole, a trick, a backdoor or an underhanded tactic you can bet the democrats will use it.
It's what they do best.
If democrats have a choice of winning fairly or winning by cheating they will pick cheating every time.


CheapEngineer: TuteTibiImperes: DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.

Yeah that's not good, but I wonder what level it kicks in at. What's the number for the CR under this discharge petition? Sequester levels?

Yeah, sequester levels.  It does give 120 days before a reduction, and at only 1% every 90 days after that, there should be plenty of time to pass a new budget, but I have my doubts the House would support anything.

However, once we're clear of the shutdown and the debt ceiling crisis, we can at least go back to good old-fashioned negotiation when it comes to the budget numbers and appropriations.  The Democrats haven't said they're unwilling to negotiate, they're just unwilling to negotiate with their backs against the wall regarding the shutdown or the debt ceiling.

Not only No, but FARK NO. They will let this 1% crap fester for the next 3 years, and IT WILL BECOME THE STANDARD, much the same as the sequester amount has become the baseline.

There they go again, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!

\goddamnit


Relax, there's a procedural move that let's them get rid of the 1% tomfoolery.
 
2013-10-04 04:42:24 PM  

Infernalist: TV's Vinnie: DamnYankees: Now that's fascinating. Force the moderate GOPers to vote for it.

The extreme cowardice of the non-TB republicans is disgusting! They're rather see America burn to the ground than risk seeing themselves getting primaried by the Teahadists.

Not all of them.  Some of them tried to lauch a coup and force a vote on a clean CR on the eve of the shutdown.  Peter King and about 13 others.



Truly terrifying times we live in when Pete King is seen as the voice of reason.

I really do not see why Cruz hasn't been officially censured yet. He caused a crapstorm and admitted that he had no solution planned. In fact, it seems that he doesn't want to see America get better. We've launched Predator drone strikes on terrorists who have done less damage.
 
2013-10-04 04:43:53 PM  

DamnYankees: Nadie_AZ: I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.

Yeah that's not good, but I wonder what level it kicks in at. What's the number for the CR under this discharge petition? Sequester levels?


FTFA
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.
 
2013-10-04 04:45:25 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Infernalist: TV's Vinnie: DamnYankees: Now that's fascinating. Force the moderate GOPers to vote for it.

The extreme cowardice of the non-TB republicans is disgusting! They're rather see America burn to the ground than risk seeing themselves getting primaried by the Teahadists.

Not all of them.  Some of them tried to lauch a coup and force a vote on a clean CR on the eve of the shutdown.  Peter King and about 13 others.


Truly terrifying times we live in when Pete King is seen as the voice of reason.

I really do not see why Cruz hasn't been officially censured yet. He caused a crapstorm and admitted that he had no solution planned. In fact, it seems that he doesn't want to see America get better. We've launched Predator drone strikes on terrorists who have done less damage.


Can he actually be censured under current congressional rules? I am unsure of anything that he has done would rise up to something officially on the books.
 
2013-10-04 04:46:03 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

It will hit their pork as hard as anyone's.  They WILL squeal, even louder than they did last time.


Go on....
 
2013-10-04 04:47:30 PM  
This is an awesome thread, I've learned more about Congressional procedure than I ever planned to.  Good stuff!

/popcorn
 
2013-10-04 04:50:10 PM  

Cork on Fork: BMulligan: if I fail to follow those strictly and exactly I should expect to have my ass handed to me.

You should, yes. But not necessarily your client. The parties deserve to have their claims decided, and that should be what everyone wants. Lawyers should not be glad if the other side blows a filing deadline or screws up service. All that means is that someone with a legitimate complaint lost their chance to have a day in court.

(Criminal law here, so procedural rules will usually lose out to the interest in having issues resolved. But I know civil law is much less flexible)


That was more or less my argument before the Court of Appeals (I handled the appeal and the subsequent petition for discretionary review in the state Supreme Court for free). It turned out just about as well as I expected it would. Actually, I did have one substantive argument available - ironically a procedural one, regarding a pleading entered in the trial court in which both attorneys were required to represent that all parties had been served or waived service, but neither the Court of Appeals not the Washington state Supreme Court found it compelling.

And of course, the client did have a remedy available - she could have sued me for malpractice. Even though the situation was frustrating and embarrassing, I couldn't blame opposing counsel. She was simply doing her job, and she did it well. She waited until the statute had run before she filed her motion, and she won. That's how the game is played, and I knew it all along. Civil litigation is not for the faint of heart. That's why I don't do it anymore.
 
2013-10-04 04:50:24 PM  

SenorBenedict: Put simply Boehner Pelosi is the worst speaker we've ever had, I can't imagine a real solution could come from him her at all.


FTFY

Do hope, though, that this legal technique works and that a clean CR is negotiated quickly. Prefer govt. to be open rather than closed......
 
2013-10-04 04:50:53 PM  
No matter what, it's temporary. We'll be doing this again in 6 weeks or whenever the CR is up. And before that, when we hit the debt ceiling. Although I hope they amend the bill to include raising the debt ceiling too so at least we'll get a break from Tea Bag hostage tactics a little longer and they'll have to wait a little longer to destroy the economy
 
2013-10-04 04:51:36 PM  

RangerTaylor: This is an awesome thread, I've learned more about Congressional procedure than I ever planned to.  Good stuff!

/popcorn


Most people never really read the rules to the games they play. I recently had my mind blown by the fact that I've been playing monopoly wrong my entire life.
 
2013-10-04 04:51:46 PM  

parasol: DamnYankees: Infernalist: This is a brilliant maneuver, whoever thought it up.

Boehner will tell his GOPers to figure out who's in the safest districts that still listen to him and have them vote 'Yes' on the clean CR.

Boehner will make all kinds of loud and angry noises about being circumvented and then shrug his shoulders helplessly at the TP as the CR passes.  "Sorry, I tried!"

The problem for the GOP on this is that they have based their entire policy worldview around the ability of them to control the CR and the debt ceiling is leverage points to get concessions. If they lose control of that, then they literally have nothing. They have absolutely no way of getting policy to move towards them. They have a majority with 0 ways to use it.

What does it profit a man that he gain the world yet lose his soul?


Several million dollars working for a lobbying firm.
 
2013-10-04 04:51:49 PM  
Just cannot wait to see this pan-out!
 
2013-10-04 04:54:37 PM  
This would enshrine the midterms with a simple message: The GOP forced a wildly unpopular government shutdown, and the Dems put an end to it.
 
2013-10-04 04:55:32 PM  

lantawa: SenorBenedict: Put simply Boehner Pelosi is the worst speaker we've ever had, I can't imagine a real solution could come from him her at all.

FTFY

Do hope, though, that this legal technique works and that a clean CR is negotiated quickly. Prefer govt. to be open rather than closed......


Pelosi never ignored everything while the government shut down. Pelosi never kept a vote from happening because she knew the Democrats would pass it.

Yeah, Boehner is the worst Speaker.
 
2013-10-04 04:57:03 PM  

SilentStrider: No. Force Boehner to do it.
If the Democrats do it, Boehner saves face with both the tea party and the moderates.


But then all of the republicans the sign the petition get primaried and replaced with derp, possibly allowing democrats to retake the house in 2014.

If the petition or vote fails then all representative's votes on a clean CR are on record for the next election.
 
2013-10-04 04:57:47 PM  

sprawl15: Metalupis: Crocodilly_Pontifex: Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.

Indeed. Hooooooooly shiat.

my only question is that if the Dems can gut and replace with a clean CR, can't the Repubs do the same with a defunding amendment as well?

The key here is that there are enough Republicans who want to vote for a clean CR that if it's put up to a vote it'll pass. But normally the Speaker of the House (Boehner) has discretion on what to bring up, and he's following the 'Hastert Rule' which says he won't bring to a vote any bill that isn't supported by the majority of the majority (i.e., if a bill has 49% GOP support and 100% Democrat support, it wouldn't ever be put to a vote). This gets around Boehner's discretionary privileges and forces the bill to the floor regardless of the Hastert Rule.


In addition, this procedure can only be done during a full moon or a new moon.

Once the requisite number of members (one third until 1935, and a statutory majority
thereafter) has signed a petition, the motion is placed on the Discharge Calendar, which
according to House rules is privileged business on the second and fourth Mondays of the
month (but not during the last six days of a session, or before sine die adjournment).(PDF)
 
2013-10-04 04:58:01 PM  

RangerTaylor: This is an awesome thread, I've learned more about Congressional procedure than I ever planned to.  Good stuff!

/popcorn


Now, would you like to see how sausage is made?
 
2013-10-04 05:00:26 PM  

Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.


Put me down for : "Alcohol induced coma in 36hrs or less."
 
2013-10-04 05:00:28 PM  

Corvus: I love how a majority in the house voting for something is considered "cheating" by right wingers.


I think most of this backlash is a 'dumb-motherfarker' thing and not a Republican thing. Although I know the news can make it confusing.
 
2013-10-04 05:01:33 PM  

solyhhit: Corvus: I love how a majority in the house voting for something is considered "cheating" by right wingers.

I think most of this backlash is a 'dumb-motherfarker' thing and not a Republican thing. Although I know the news can make it confusing.


Most of the dumb mofos are republicans, so there's guilt by association.
 
2013-10-04 05:02:24 PM  

solyhhit: I think most of this backlash is a 'dumb-motherfarker' thing and not a Republican thing.


You said 'Republican thing' twice.
 
2013-10-04 05:03:58 PM  

Witty_Retort: lockers: I like that the endgame they had planned is having the democrats look even better then they already did.

There was no endgame. There are articles from the spring saying that the Rs were planning this, even though they had no idea what they wanted. They just knew that they wanted a shutdown and to extort something from the Ds.


The problem is that the Republican Party platform is essentially incoherent. The thing with national parks is a great example. They refuse to pay for the national parks to operate, then berate Park employees for not having the money to operate the parks. They rail against "pork-barrel" projects and successfully ban earmarks, then wonder why their roads are falling apart, their bridges left unrepaired, and their dams are leaking. They've taken "pro-business" and "the government is the problem" so far that they're actually hurting US commerce with how much vital yet unprofitable work they've prevented the Federal government from doing, and refuse to pay for themselves at the State level. I sort of feel like the president should just start giving a televised speech every week where he open an Econ 101 book up and starts reading the chapter on "Public Goods".
 
2013-10-04 05:04:27 PM  
The GOP master plan looks like this...
1) Shut down government
2) ?
3) ?

All effort went into step 1.
To gain support, individual members were encouraged to just fill in steps 2 and 3 themselves.
Like:

1) Shut down government
2) gain respect
3) get something

1) Shut down government
2) useful puppet
3) Speaker for life!

1) Shut down government
2) take credit
3) First Canadian US President!

1) Shut down government
2) repeal Obamacare
3) Grateful masses, now able to sign up for "get sick and die" program, reelect me for life.

1) Shut down government
2) retreat to heavily stocked bunker with Gold supplies
3) Emerge in 2 years and rule the world

1) Shut down government
2) Punish everyone
3) PUNISH PUNISH THEY WILL ALL BE SORRY

1) Shut down government
2) Please insane Tea Party
3) Don't get primaried and get Koch bucks
 1) Shut down government

2) Get attention
3) Bask

1) Shut down government
2) Grateful masses
3) Last Black President
 
2013-10-04 05:05:06 PM  
Has this actually started, or is this just water-cooler chatter about what might be possible?

Can they actually get that many GOP members to break ranks? My understanding is that there's been a bunch of attempts to put amendments on existing legislation, which would require a simple majority vote to override Boehner tabling them, and effectively push the CR through the House.

I don't think that if the GOP won't go for that, that we'll see enough votes to go for this.
 
2013-10-04 05:06:31 PM  

SenorBenedict: Why assume this was Boehners idea? The guy is a political coward who doesn't care about hurting america. I severely doubt he had any hand in this and will act all outraged right along the rest of the derp squad.

Put simply Boehner is the worst speaker we've ever had, I can't imagine a real solution could come from him at all.


Agreed. All he cares about is being Speaker, and actually doing anything with that position which might risk him losing it is the last thing on his mind. Then again, what the hell did anyone expect from a man who handed out Tobacco company bribes on the House floor? Rather than being Speaker, the man should have spent the last 20 years in federal prison for official corruption.
 
2013-10-04 05:08:39 PM  

Infernalist: Skarekrough: Muta: Skarekrough: If this works you're going to see Derp go to unprecedented levels, you know this, right?

Has this news hit Freep yet?

Can you see the flames yet?

They're raging so hard, my window tabs open to freepland are closing themselves spontaneously.


Jebus. I thought I'd wander over there and take a looksee.. That's the ugliest page I've seen in quite some time. Needs more dancing balogna though.
 
2013-10-04 05:08:48 PM  

Cyclometh: Has this actually started, or is this just water-cooler chatter about what might be possible?


This is the only relevant comment to this article.
 
2013-10-04 05:09:44 PM  
i42.tinypic.com
 
2013-10-04 05:10:19 PM  

quantum_csc: SilentStrider: No. Force Boehner to do it.
If the Democrats do it, Boehner saves face with both the tea party and the moderates.

But then all of the republicans the sign the petition get primaried and replaced with derp, possibly allowing democrats to retake the house in 2014.

If the petition or vote fails then all representative's votes on a clean CR are on record for the next election.


The House is so gerrymandered that any thought of Democrats taking it back is almost amusing. Republicans refuse to stand up to the TP because the vast majority know the only election they face is the primary. This isn't changing until 2020
 
2013-10-04 05:10:41 PM  

KarmicDisaster: 1) Shut down government
2) take credit
3) First Canadian US President!


hahah, oh man... love it.

Vote Soly 20... whatever. Just vote the next time!

Free maple syrup for all!!!
I promise to deport Beiber to Russia!
 
2013-10-04 05:11:22 PM  

jst3p: birdmanesq: [i106.photobucket.com image 626x323]

Curious, does anyone know what a "ping list" is in freeper town? I see it mentioned a lot.


It's a little dated these days, but back in the days of communication by email and I'M, a ping list was a list of people to 'ping' (email or I'M) when something needed attention ASAP. In other words, a contact ASAP list.
 
2013-10-04 05:15:56 PM  
I just watched Boehner and his stupid face give his speech today. Man, he'll never get it, will he? "We just want to sit down and talk". How about you stand up and bring the clean CR to a vote instead? I wish I was standing in that room, I would have been tempted to walk up to the podium and punch him right in the face. I can't wait to see him get his comeuppance when everything is said and done. Roast him over the fire and keep him out of Congress after all this. Can't farking wait.
 
2013-10-04 05:16:12 PM  
Have we moved from kabuki into political jiujitsu yet?  Or is this more akijutsu-like?
 
2013-10-04 05:18:35 PM  

Jekylman: sprawl15: Metalupis: Crocodilly_Pontifex: Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.

Indeed. Hooooooooly shiat.

my only question is that if the Dems can gut and replace with a clean CR, can't the Repubs do the same with a defunding amendment as well?

The key here is that there are enough Republicans who want to vote for a clean CR that if it's put up to a vote it'll pass. But normally the Speaker of the House (Boehner) has discretion on what to bring up, and he's following the 'Hastert Rule' which says he won't bring to a vote any bill that isn't supported by the majority of the majority (i.e., if a bill has 49% GOP support and 100% Democrat support, it wouldn't ever be put to a vote). This gets around Boehner's discretionary privileges and forces the bill to the floor regardless of the Hastert Rule.

In addition, this procedure can only be done during a full moon or a new moon.

Once the requisite number of members (one third until 1935, and a statutory majority
thereafter) has signed a petition, the motion is placed on the Discharge Calendar, which
according to House rules is privileged business on the second and fourth Mondays of the
month (but not during the last six days of a session, or before sine die adjournment).(PDF)


So it's some sort of Weremotion?  At least it doesn't sparkle when the sun hits it.
 
2013-10-04 05:18:42 PM  

TheAntiElite: Have we moved from kabuki into political jiujitsu yet?  Or is this more akijutsu-like?


More like slap-fighting.
 
2013-10-04 05:20:10 PM  
They're going to have to steam clean after all this is done.

2.bp.blogspot.com
/just started watching
 
2013-10-04 05:21:04 PM  

Mike_1962: jst3p: birdmanesq: [i106.photobucket.com image 626x323]

Curious, does anyone know what a "ping list" is in freeper town? I see it mentioned a lot.

It's a little dated these days, but back in the days of communication by email and I'M, a ping list was a list of people to 'ping' (email or I'M) when something needed attention ASAP. In other words, a contact ASAP list.


I can only imagine the stupid shiat that they deemed "urgent."
 
2013-10-04 05:21:40 PM  

Cyclometh: Has this actually started, or is this just water-cooler chatter about what might be possible?

Can they actually get that many GOP members to break ranks? My understanding is that there's been a bunch of attempts to put amendments on existing legislation, which would require a simple majority vote to override Boehner tabling them, and effectively push the CR through the House.

I don't think that if the GOP won't go for that, that we'll see enough votes to go for this.


It was water cooler talk a week ago, today the Democrats said they're going to do it.  We'll see how it goes.
 
2013-10-04 05:23:58 PM  
And for those people speculating about people bringing amendments to the floor, I'm pretty sure that everyone that would sign the petition to vote would vote No to any amendments being added before the official up and down vote on the as-is bill. Is that how it would work?
 
2013-10-04 05:24:48 PM  

qorkfiend: Infernalist: Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.

That's my general thought.  Or whoever brought it to him pitched it like this:

"John, I know this whole thing has been hard on you.."

"Goddamned Tea Party freaks."

"Right, so here's this bill....Yeah, from March.  Now, remember 2002 when they did the petition against Hastert?"

"Yeah, complete end-run around him, he was...powerless to stop it."

"You see where I'm going with it, then."

"Send this over to Pelosi's office.  Use one of the mail runners, not one of our staffers."

I doubt it. I'm sure both sides have been aware of this for quite some time, because the people who end up in leadership positions in Congress are usually not stupid. Evil maybe, corrupt sure, shortsighted definitely, but not stupid.

The Dems were just waiting for a good moment, letting the shutdown stoke public outrage and ensuring that the blame is mostly fixed on the GOP.


Well, notice how this solution magically appeared on the first full day of (horribly negative) polling after the R's shut everything down. Probably just coincidence though.
 
2013-10-04 05:26:36 PM  

timujin: It was water cooler talk a week ago, today the Democrats said they're going to do it.  We'll see how it goes


It'll go exactly nowhere. If the GOP were going to break ranks, they've had chances to do so on amendments offered to bills since the shutdown that would have put the CR ahead.

In short, a Democrat offers an amendment, the Speaker tables it, the member calls for a vote to override the Speaker's tabling of the amendment, and the GOP votes lockstep.

This procedural stunt sounds nice on paper, but it's still dependent on getting a majority of votes, and that's not going to happen until the GOP caves.
 
2013-10-04 05:29:29 PM  
One of the best things about this workaround is that if it fails, it dooms the 'moderate GOP' line for good.  If you can't be 'moderate' and vote against the extremists in your party, then that whole 'the GOP is under attack by the Teabaggers' nonsense is proved.  So there's a fire underneath some Republican asses for good measure:  put up, shut up, or prepare to deal with this for the next year when the Democrats own your ass.

The Republicans should have just given up on the shutdown today.  They can't win this at all, and with Obama willing to let them dangle in the breeze, there's no good way out.  They've got a year left before Election 2014 and so far they've only given the populace yet another reason to hate them.  These assholes could lose a game of solitaire.
 
2013-10-04 05:29:58 PM  

Cpl.D: simplicimus: Rwa2play: Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.

I'll go for 6.  Ann Coulter will pop a vein for it.

So you actually think Coulter believes the things she says?

From every credible source I've heard, her TV persona is all an act to sell books to morons.  She plays to their jingoism and paranoia, and she's fleecing the sheep.


Yeah, I'd figure Beck to be more of the True Believertm - plus have you SEEN the veins on that man's forehead when he gets worked up?  Smart money says he'll stroke out before the 8 hour mark.
 
2013-10-04 05:34:40 PM  
I just want to second the hat tip to the Farkers here with good knowledge of Congressional procedures.

This has been a very informative thread!  :D
 
2013-10-04 05:39:38 PM  

FueledByEthanol: Yeah, I'd figure Beck to be more of the True Believertm - plus have you SEEN the veins on that man's forehead when he gets worked up?  Smart money says he'll stroke out before the 8 hour mark.


The guy collects Nazi war memorabilia.  Says enough about him, don't you think?
 
2013-10-04 05:44:21 PM  
and now we bring you:  Man sets himself on fire at the national mall.

WTF people?  O_O
 
2013-10-04 05:47:32 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: and now we bring you:  Man sets himself on fire at the national mall.

WTF people?  O_O


Yeah. Pretty wild.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Park-Police--226512801.html
 
2013-10-04 05:48:53 PM  
...this could lead to the "American Spring" ...
 
2013-10-04 05:49:40 PM  

Cyclometh: Grand_Moff_Joseph: and now we bring you:  Man sets himself on fire at the national mall.

WTF people?  O_O

Yeah. Pretty wild.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Park-Police--226512801.html


I wonder if it was a monk protesting, or that a hellmouth has opened under D.C. and is drawing together all the crazy.
 
2013-10-04 05:50:00 PM  

Cyclometh: Grand_Moff_Joseph: and now we bring you:  Man sets himself on fire at the national mall.

WTF people?  O_O

Yeah. Pretty wild.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Park-Police--226512801.html


If you're going to do that to make a point...why the hell would you do it in front of the Air and Space Museum?
 
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