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(Washington Post) NewsFlash BREAKING: House Democrats announce they will bring discharge petition to the floor of the House to pass a clean CR, circumventing the Speaker and the House Majority   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: NewsFlash, Chambers of parliament, Democrats, Republican, continuing resolution, House GOP  
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13112 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2013 at 2:20 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-10-04 03:58:11 PM  

spongeboob: Infernalist: spongeboob: Infernalist: Guarantee you that this GOPer came to the Dems with this bill in hand and said "This might help."

Guaranteed.

There's no way that the Democrats found this somewhere stuffed away.  This is Boehner's way out.

So you think that Boehner had this planned all along.

What color is the sky in your world?

I'm saying Boehner got backed into this shutdown because the derpers are insane and he likes being Speaker.

I'm saying that either he or another GOP critter found this 'aged' bill sitting around and realized what could be done with it.

I'm saying he's privately backing the CR and has 18 or so GOPers that will fall on a grenade and vote Yes because their seats are relatively safe.

I'm saying he made a deal with Pelosi and the President, allowing the House Democrats to do an end-run around the Speaker's chair and he can look mad about it while privately allowing it so that the country can reopen in defiance of the Derper brigade's insanity.

You are saying that the Democrats aren't smart enough to find this bill, but Boehner or another Repbulican were, and not only smart enough to find the bill, but they are giving it to the Democrats because they just love America that much, well not enough to just bring a clean CR to the floor but enough to save it.


YOU just really want Boehner to be the hero in this don't you?


Nope, I'm saying he did this to save the GOP 'and' get the country running again.  It's a mix of self-interest and honest governance.  Because while Boehner is an asshole, he's not an insane asshole who wants to ruin the country.
 
2013-10-04 03:58:36 PM  

parasol: I'd love to be a fly on the wall in cantor's office


You'd only be able to fly with your right wing.
 
2013-10-04 03:58:47 PM  

Null Pointer: TV's Vinnie: DamnYankees: Now that's fascinating. Force the moderate GOPers to vote for it.

The extreme cowardice of the non-TB republicans is disgusting! They're rather see America burn to the ground than risk seeing themselves getting primaried by the Teahadists.

To be fair they are looking out for their jobs. They know if the break ranks it will probably cost them their job by getting primaried by the teabaggers next year.


That's why their pay and benefits should be the first thing cut, so that they aren't in such a hurry to cut everyone else's while they have a secure job.
 
2013-10-04 03:58:59 PM  
images.wikia.com

"Hey... guy, what's going on in here?"
 
2013-10-04 03:59:05 PM  

Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.


Hell, I'll bet at this point that Cruz is happy there's a way out of the mess he caused that doesn't involve him being murdered by his fellow republicans.
 
2013-10-04 03:59:19 PM  
What is noteworthy about the Freeper comments is a complete lack of optimism.  That is heart warming at least.
 
2013-10-04 03:59:25 PM  

birdmanesq: So it's not entirely their fault that they are misinformed.


Freepers? Fark that. Freepers wallow in their misinformation. They liberally coat themselves with it. I got sympathy for Ma and Pa Kettle in East Bumfark, West Virginia, but I got no sympathy for Freepers.
 
2013-10-04 04:00:08 PM  
We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.
 
2013-10-04 04:00:14 PM  

Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers.  I did my best."


Yes, that's pretty disappointing. I'm hoping that they get the government open ASAP, but I really would like to see Boehner fry some more over this clusterfark.
 
2013-10-04 04:00:28 PM  

mrshowrules: What is noteworthy about the Freeper comments is a complete lack of optimism.  That is heart warming at least.


Just as long as they're talking. If they get quiet all the sudden, that's when we worry.
 
2013-10-04 04:00:49 PM  

Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.


That's my general thought.  Or whoever brought it to him pitched it like this:

"John, I know this whole thing has been hard on you.."

"Goddamned Tea Party freaks."

"Right, so here's this bill....Yeah, from March.  Now, remember 2002 when they did the petition against Hastert?"

"Yeah, complete end-run around him, he was...powerless to stop it."

"You see where I'm going with it, then."

"Send this over to Pelosi's office.  Use one of the mail runners, not one of our staffers."
 
2013-10-04 04:00:57 PM  

Infernalist: The problem is that Boehner won't hold a vote on a clean CR because if he does, the TP will burn him down and replace him with someone else and he 'likes' being Speaker.


They could vote to remove him easily. But since the Speaker is elected by the entire House, they could not be guaranteed the replacement they want unless they held a supermajority. This is why Boehner failed to oust Gingrich in a coup in the 90s.
 
2013-10-04 04:01:10 PM  
Leave it to the Demmycrats to hijack yet another Republican proposal for their own agenda...

/and I'm OK with that
 
2013-10-04 04:01:57 PM  

Infernalist: Nope, I'm saying he did this to save the GOP 'and' get the country running again.  It's a mix of self-interest and honest governance.  Because while Boehner is an asshole, he's not an insane asshole who wants to ruin the country.


You are saying Boehner is not insane?  You realize that he will burst into uncontrolled sobbing anytime you mention his childhood.  Just saying.
 
2013-10-04 04:02:02 PM  
John Boehner is gonna be *DRUNK* tonight!
 
2013-10-04 04:02:54 PM  

BMulligan: Exactly. By the way, that professor was one of the smartest people I've ever met - graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law where she was the first woman ever elected Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review, clerked for Justice Blackmun, and now sits on the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. Nice as pie, too.


Wow.  That's a helluva resume.
 
2013-10-04 04:03:02 PM  

jst3p: Rwa2play: You know, sometimes wrestling is an actual reflection of reality:  The heels (RWers) are angry that the faces (Democrats) are using heel tactics against them.  Too damn funny.

Can you translate this to non-carney?

Heels and faces?


Heels = Bad Guys
Faces = Good Guys.
 
2013-10-04 04:03:06 PM  

Cork on Fork: BMulligan: my civil procedure prof said "it's better to win on procedure than on the merits."

Your professor sounds lazy and like he didn't care to defend the merits of his cases.


Among the all the myriad ways your comment is wrong, Judge Moore is actually a woman.
 
2013-10-04 04:03:36 PM  

KarmicDisaster: That's why their pay and benefits should be the first thing cut, so that they aren't in such a hurry to cut everyone else's while they have a secure job.


Difficulty: Congressional pay and renumeration cannot be changed for a current Congress. Only for future sessions.
 
2013-10-04 04:03:39 PM  

kasmel: Or they could have introduced a new legislative rule that allows a minority leader to call for an up or down vote for bringing a Senate passed bill to the floor. that would only take 7 days.


Except that rule would have to be advanced by the Republican-dominated Rules Committee.
 
2013-10-04 04:04:17 PM  

imontheinternet: BMulligan: Exactly. By the way, that professor was one of the smartest people I've ever met - graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law where she was the first woman ever elected Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review, clerked for Justice Blackmun, and now sits on the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. Nice as pie, too.

Wow.  That's a helluva resume.


Is she hot?
 
2013-10-04 04:05:00 PM  

Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.


I'll go for 6.  Ann Coulter will pop a vein for it.
 
2013-10-04 04:05:30 PM  

UncomfortableSilence: Skarekrough: Muta: Skarekrough: If this works you're going to see Derp go to unprecedented levels, you know this, right?

Has this news hit Freep yet?

Can you see the flames yet?

It's like the worlds biggest tire fire.


Why are they upset?  Isn't is a GOP bill that is being moved forward?
 
2013-10-04 04:06:40 PM  

Somacandra: imontheinternet: Yeah, IIRC, the point of the section was for the government to reject explicitly the assumption of Confederate debt, while guaranteeing that all other debts were still owed.

That was certainly the point at the time, but it is still part of the Supreme Law and may apply to other situations as well.


True, but the way it's worded lends itself to more of a "recognizing the debt exists" interpretation than to an "obligation to pay no matter what" one, as does the context of the entire paragraph.  You never know which way it would ultimately go, but trying to end this thing using the 14th Amendment could be dangerous, possibly giving the House the excuse they need to file for impeachment.
 
Bf+
2013-10-04 04:06:54 PM  

Weaver95: Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.

Hell, I'll bet at this point that Cruz is happy there's a way out of the mess he caused that doesn't involve him being murdered by his fellow republicans.


Because we're talking about Republicans, you'll have to pick a different word:
1) Lynched
2) Raped
3) Hitler-ed
 
2013-10-04 04:07:36 PM  

Rwa2play: Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.

I'll go for 6.  Ann Coulter will pop a vein for it.


So you actually think Coulter believes the things she says?
 
Bf+
2013-10-04 04:07:55 PM  

imontheinternet: BMulligan: Exactly. By the way, that professor was one of the smartest people I've ever met - graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law where she was the first woman ever elected Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review, clerked for Justice Blackmun, and now sits on the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. Nice as pie, too.

Wow.  That's a helluva resume.



Pfft-- Elitist snob.
 
2013-10-04 04:07:57 PM  

Somacandra: KarmicDisaster: That's why their pay and benefits should be the first thing cut, so that they aren't in such a hurry to cut everyone else's while they have a secure job.

Difficulty: Congressional pay and renumeration cannot be changed for a current Congress. Only for future sessions.


No doubt that is to prevent the many possible abuses, such as voting themselves a huge pay hike and then quitting, or cutting off the funding of some members but not others (like Walker did in Wisconsin), or requiring unusual conditions for some members to be paid such as having to pick it up in person in front of the body (like Walker did in Wisconsin). Still, I'd like to see them suffer too.
 
2013-10-04 04:07:57 PM  

vernonFL: John Boehner is gonna be *DRUNK* tonight!


True. But his Old Gran-Dad won't taste quite as sweet as what Obama will be having.

i47.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-04 04:08:18 PM  

I Said: I hate that "sequester levels" are the new normal that we have to strive towards. Can't change that at all to make it "full farking funding"?


probably not until the dems regain the house in 2015.
 
2013-10-04 04:08:31 PM  

BMulligan: Cork on Fork: BMulligan: my civil procedure prof said "it's better to win on procedure than on the merits."

Your professor sounds lazy and like he didn't care to defend the merits of his cases.

Among the all the myriad ways your comment is wrong, Judge Moore is actually a woman.


I guess I will concede the part about her being a woman. But I would be interested in hearing why you think it is more desirable to win or lose a case on some procedural basis instead of basing a decision on which side has a stronger legal argument.
 
2013-10-04 04:08:53 PM  

nekom: I doubt they would have done this if they didn't think they had the votes.


they've had the votes to pass the clean cr.
Boehner wouldn't let it go to a vote because he's afraid he will be primaried by the tea party.
This way it gets done and Boehner keeps his tri-corner bonafides intact.
 
2013-10-04 04:09:07 PM  

KarmicDisaster: cutting off the funding of some members but not others (like Walker did in Wisconsin)


Huh?
 
2013-10-04 04:10:12 PM  

birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.


Oh that's badass.
 
2013-10-04 04:10:26 PM  

simplicimus: Rwa2play: Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.

I'll go for 6.  Ann Coulter will pop a vein for it.

So you actually think Coulter believes the things she says?


From every credible source I've heard, her TV persona is all an act to sell books to morons.  She plays to their jingoism and paranoia, and she's fleecing the sheep.
 
2013-10-04 04:10:48 PM  

wxboy: parasol: I'd love to be a fly on the wall in cantor's office

You'd only be able to fly with your right wing.


And you'd be on Cantor, not on the wall.

/For obvious reasons.
 
2013-10-04 04:10:53 PM  

mainstreet62: Also, from Freeperville:

[www.freerepublic.com image 600x450]


I was behind a cargo van this morning on my commute that had a sticker that read "Pro-God, Pro-Guns, Pro-Life, Anti-Obama". Beautiful.
 
2013-10-04 04:11:19 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.


That's the brilliance of the plan.  Gut the bill, amend it to be a clean CR, put it on the floor.

Everyone actually walks away from it looking good and feeling good except the Tea Party Derper brigade.

and fark them.
 
2013-10-04 04:11:49 PM  

jst3p: imontheinternet: BMulligan: Exactly. By the way, that professor was one of the smartest people I've ever met - graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law where she was the first woman ever elected Editor-in-Chief of the Law Review, clerked for Justice Blackmun, and now sits on the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. Nice as pie, too.

Wow.  That's a helluva resume.

Is she hot?


You clearly haven't seen this year's Justices of the Sixth Circuit swimsuit calendar.
 
2013-10-04 04:12:20 PM  

Bf+: Weaver95: Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.

Hell, I'll bet at this point that Cruz is happy there's a way out of the mess he caused that doesn't involve him being murdered by his fellow republicans.

Because we're talking about Republicans, you'll have to pick a different word:
1) Lynched
2) Raped
3) Hitler-ed


Legitmately Hitler-ed?
 
2013-10-04 04:12:43 PM  
Sounds and reads like it will work.  Well alrighty, then........
 
2013-10-04 04:13:37 PM  

Cpl.D: simplicimus: Rwa2play: Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.

I'll go for 6.  Ann Coulter will pop a vein for it.

So you actually think Coulter believes the things she says?

From every credible source I've heard, her TV persona is all an act to sell books to morons.  She plays to their jingoism and paranoia, and she's fleecing the sheep.


Real or not, her man hands are kinda scary
 
2013-10-04 04:13:41 PM  

Cpl.D: simplicimus: Rwa2play: Cpl.D: We need to start a fark pool.  Number of hours before fatal aneurysm by political pundit?

Put me down for 18.

I'll go for 6.  Ann Coulter will pop a vein for it.

So you actually think Coulter believes the things she says?

From every credible source I've heard, her TV persona is all an act to sell books to morons.  She plays to their jingoism and paranoia, and she's fleecing the sheep.


That's been my impression as well. And also that she's not alone in these activities.
 
2013-10-04 04:13:47 PM  

jst3p: KarmicDisaster: cutting off the funding of some members but not others (like Walker did in Wisconsin)

Huh?


First Walker tried to completely dock the pay of legislators that would not show up to vote. That was found to be illegal, so instead

"[MOTION] That the Chief Clerk provide the paycheck, per diem check, and any expense reimbursement check of any Senator who is absent without leave for 2 or more session days to the Majority Leader for the absent member to pick up in person. Until the Majority Leader authorizes the Chief Clerk to reinstate direct deposit, the Chief Clerk shall suspend the direct deposit of the paycheck of any such Senator and process the Senator's pay as a paper check. The Majority Leader shall provide the checks only to the absent Senator and only on the floor of the Senate during a session day.
"

Things are different at the state level of course, but it shows the type of abuse that the rule is intended to prevent.
 
2013-10-04 04:13:59 PM  

Infernalist: Bf+: Infernalist: This allows Boehner to throw up his hands and go "Sorry, petition rules and all that, I can't stop them from passing a clean CR, Tea Derpers. I did my best."

It was probably his idea.

That's my general thought.  Or whoever brought it to him pitched it like this:

"John, I know this whole thing has been hard on you.."

"Goddamned Tea Party freaks."

"Right, so here's this bill....Yeah, from March.  Now, remember 2002 when they did the petition against Hastert?"

"Yeah, complete end-run around him, he was...powerless to stop it."

"You see where I'm going with it, then."

"Send this over to Pelosi's office.  Use one of the mail runners, not one of our staffers."


I doubt it. I'm sure both sides have been aware of this for quite some time, because the people who end up in leadership positions in Congress are usually not stupid. Evil maybe, corrupt sure, shortsighted definitely, but not stupid.

The Dems were just waiting for a good moment, letting the shutdown stoke public outrage and ensuring that the blame is mostly fixed on the GOP.
 
2013-10-04 04:14:49 PM  
Wonder how often "would vote for a clean CR" translates to "would vote for a clean CR brought to the floor by Democrats via an end run around house leadership".

/hope the answer is often enough.
 
2013-10-04 04:15:01 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: birchman: ********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.

Oh that's badass.


still the senate "clean cr" is under what Ryan's original budget proposal was. it's staying at sequester levels.
 
2013-10-04 04:15:36 PM  

jst3p: Rwa2play: You know, sometimes wrestling is an actual reflection of reality:  The heels (RWers) are angry that the faces (Democrats) are using heel tactics against them.  Too damn funny.

Can you translate this to non-carney?

Heels and faces?

 
2013-10-04 04:15:51 PM  

Muta: UncomfortableSilence: Skarekrough: Muta: Skarekrough: If this works you're going to see Derp go to unprecedented levels, you know this, right?

Has this news hit Freep yet?

Can you see the flames yet?

It's like the worlds biggest tire fire.

Why are they upset?  Isn't is a GOP bill that is being moved forward?


The Freepers are losing it because the bill is being used by libby libs who are using sneaky underhanded procedures.  You know, doing things according to proper parliamentary procedure in order to bypass a rule that has no reason to exist except to ensure the house majority doesn't have to consider opposition plans.
 
2013-10-04 04:15:58 PM  

Somacandra: imontheinternet: Yeah, IIRC, the point of the section was for the government to reject explicitly the assumption of Confederate debt, while guaranteeing that all other debts were still owed.

That was certainly the point at the time, but it is still part of the Supreme Law and may apply to other situations as well.


14th Amendment aside, Obama might be able to avoid a default.

Leaving aside the platinum coin gambit (which doesn't appear to break any laws), if we hit the ceiling, the executive branch will have to break some law; it's impossible to follow them all.

If they don't pay everything, they're breaking entitlement or appropriations law. If they take in extra revenue, they're breaking tax law. And if they borrow more money, they're breaking the debt ceiling law.

The least-bad option there is to just ignore the debt ceiling and hold a technically-illegal debt auction.

Unfortunately he's said he won't do this (or mint the coin). I'd sleep better if that was in Obama's back pocket. Though maybe it is, and he's just keeping the pressure on Congress.
 
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