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(Washington Post) NewsFlash BREAKING: House Democrats announce they will bring discharge petition to the floor of the House to pass a clean CR, circumventing the Speaker and the House Majority   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 718
    More: NewsFlash, Chambers of parliament, Democrats, Republican, continuing resolution, House GOP  
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13096 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Oct 2013 at 2:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-10-04 02:37:18 PM  

DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.


that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.
 
2013-10-04 02:37:21 PM  

Somacandra: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

Boehner has promised not to let a default happen. The non-Bagger Republicans and the Dems would support a debt ceiling increase and Boehner's leadership as speaker.


Boehner has no control over the House.
 
2013-10-04 02:37:30 PM  
Proposing to do something is nice, but I'll reserve any emotion until it works.
 
2013-10-04 02:37:34 PM  

DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.


This

This doesn't appear to do anything for the debt ceiling.
 
2013-10-04 02:37:34 PM  

sugardave: Benevolent Misanthrope: So, they have the votes to re-open, but Boehner won't let it go to the floor?

Christ.  Why does anyone blame anyone other than the GOP for any of this

I don't know where you've been, but there is a Black man occupying the White House.


Damn, I had no idea, I need to start getting my news on TV instead of from the radio.
 
2013-10-04 02:37:48 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-04 02:37:50 PM  

smellysocksnshoes: No. Force Boehner to do it.
If the Democrats  any group of bi-partisan legislators can do it, Boehner   our country saves face with both the tea party and the moderates. the rest of the world and we can begin to have a functioning government again.

Why is it always about "my team"?  While sane people know the GOP is to blame, adults also recognize that
our country wins if there are actually bi-partisan groups that try to govern.


Because we are driven by an unshakable program in our DNA that forces us bring competition into everything
 
2013-10-04 02:38:03 PM  
Article has been clarified: the language concerning the reductions in spending would be wiped if this works.

Let's see just how honest you were being, GOP pragmatists. Time to step up and be counted.
 
2013-10-04 02:38:13 PM  

DamnYankees: Infernalist: This is a brilliant maneuver, whoever thought it up.

Boehner will tell his GOPers to figure out who's in the safest districts that still listen to him and have them vote 'Yes' on the clean CR.

Boehner will make all kinds of loud and angry noises about being circumvented and then shrug his shoulders helplessly at the TP as the CR passes.  "Sorry, I tried!"

The problem for the GOP on this is that they have based their entire policy worldview around the ability of them to control the CR and the debt ceiling is leverage points to get concessions. If they lose control of that, then they literally have nothing. They have absolutely no way of getting policy to move towards them. They have a majority with 0 ways to use it.


They'll have to do it the old fashioned way.  Negotiate in good faith with the Democrats so that both sides get something that they want.
 
2013-10-04 02:38:17 PM  
I've heard of Democrats with spines, but I always figured they were like unicorns or Big foot or Guinness bar towels
 
2013-10-04 02:38:24 PM  
Congressman: Wait a minute, I want to tack on a rider to that bill: $30 million of taxpayer money to support the perverted arts.
Speaker: All in favor of the amended Springfield-slash-pervert bill?
Everyone: BOOOO!
Speaker: Bill defeated.
Kent: I've said it before and I'll say it again: Democracy simply doesn't work.
 
2013-10-04 02:38:44 PM  

DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.


Since I calculate the present likelihood of a debt default to be ~100%, I'm prepared to take that risk.
 
2013-10-04 02:39:13 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: And I bet the Speaker of the House has the power to table or kill any pending legislation. And he'll do it.


And he'll do so at the cost of his career, because the PR alone would sink him.

This is the point in the movie where the hero's managed to snatch a gun from one of the guards, and now it's gone from being a hostage situation to a Mexican standoff.
 
2013-10-04 02:39:23 PM  

Infernalist: They'll have to do it the old fashioned way.  Negotiate in good faith with the Democrats so that both sides get something that they want.


There's absolutely no reason to think they are capable of doing this. They haven't done it since the 90s.
 
2013-10-04 02:39:32 PM  
Whoever thought this plan up(if it works), I would like to establish a Kickstarter so that we can buy them some good beer.
 
2013-10-04 02:39:42 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: History lesson:

[i44.tinypic.com image 519x283]


Yes, indeed. Another interesting thing to note is that the man who led the charge for "reform" was none other than James Inhofe, back when he was a Representative.

I wonder who the 18 Republicans the Democrats think will sign the discharge petition.
 
2013-10-04 02:39:46 PM  

DamnYankees: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

It's not that much, I don't think. 120 days until it kicks in, thence 1% every three months.

Oh, I read it wrong. Ok, 4% per year then. Still not good.


Not really.  If it breaks the Teabagger's backs then hopefully, more reasoned heads can negotiate a real budget.
 
2013-10-04 02:39:53 PM  
Way to go, assholes. You made him cry!

im41.com
 
2013-10-04 02:40:00 PM  
FTFA:  Dems say that if they get enough signatures, they'd be able to force a vote by October 14th. Given that House Republicans are now talking about letting the government shutdown battle spill into the fight over the debt limit - which expires on October 17th - it's very possible the government could still be closed at that point.

So we're cheering something that couldn't come to fruition for 10 more days?  And this is supposed to be good?

The only "good thing" I could see coming out of this is if enough Republicans sign within hours, Boehner sees it will happen no matter what, at which point he caves and brings the CR to a vote immediately.

So many of us can't wait 10 days.
 
2013-10-04 02:40:15 PM  

FlashHarry: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.


Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?

The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"
 
2013-10-04 02:40:48 PM  

Bontesla: Somacandra: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

Boehner has promised not to let a default happen. The non-Bagger Republicans and the Dems would support a debt ceiling increase and Boehner's leadership as speaker.

Boehner has no control over the House.


He has no control over his caucus as a whole. But the 18 Repubs and the Democratic members do not want to see anyone derpier in the Speaker's chair. The Baggers might have the votes to topple him, but they don't have the votes to elect anyone else specifically since the whole House gets to vote. That would make Pelosi a kingmaker and no TBer wants that used against them.
 
2013-10-04 02:40:52 PM  

DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.


So they should put a bill in now to take care of that issue in 30 days in the same manner.
 
2013-10-04 02:41:04 PM  

bmongar: Before I read the article I was hoping a discharge petition was a way to discharge Boehner as speaker, this isn't quite as good but works in my book.


Only two ways to do that. One if for a new vote for Speaker of the House to be called, given that the current Speaker has to make that call ... good luck with that.

Two impeach Boehner ... this could work if the Democrats bring impeachment proceedings, can get a Judiciary or special committee to investigate, and a simple majority of the House votes for impeachment then it gets kicked over to the Senate. Not easy and basically a distraction right now that we don't need.
 
2013-10-04 02:41:12 PM  
This is Obama's Queequeg's Coffin As Ishmael's Life Raft.
 
2013-10-04 02:41:13 PM  

ariseatex: FTFA:  Dems say that if they get enough signatures, they'd be able to force a vote by October 14th. Given that House Republicans are now talking about letting the government shutdown battle spill into the fight over the debt limit - which expires on October 17th - it's very possible the government could still be closed at that point.

So we're cheering something that couldn't come to fruition for 10 more days?  And this is supposed to be good?

The only "good thing" I could see coming out of this is if enough Republicans sign within hours, Boehner sees it will happen no matter what, at which point he caves and brings the CR to a vote immediately.

So many of us can't wait 10 days.


And the GOP-holes give this many farks about you:
 
2013-10-04 02:41:21 PM  

naughtyrev: So what you're saying is, the House is going to force Boehner to discharge?


Will Boehner hold stiff against the Democrats rubbing him the wrong way?
 
2013-10-04 02:41:26 PM  

Clutch2013: TheShavingofOccam123: And I bet the Speaker of the House has the power to table or kill any pending legislation. And he'll do it.

And he'll do so at the cost of his career, because the PR alone would sink him.

This is the point in the movie where the hero's managed to snatch a gun from one of the guards, and now it's gone from being a hostage situation to a Mexican standoff.


The whole point to this 'petition' thing as I understand it, is that it circumvents the normal House procedure and puts the vote on the floor, without input from the Speaker.

It is, figurative, out of his hands completely.
 
2013-10-04 02:41:28 PM  

BMulligan: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

Since I calculate the present likelihood of a debt default to be ~100%, I'm prepared to take that risk.


Yup, they were just going to let us default to destroy the country anyway, that's the Teaparty goal.
 
2013-10-04 02:41:41 PM  
farm6.staticflickr.com
 
2013-10-04 02:41:58 PM  

timujin: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

So they should put a bill in now to take care of that issue in 30 days in the same manner.


They don't have 30 days to solve that.
 
2013-10-04 02:42:27 PM  

Clutch2013: TheShavingofOccam123: And I bet the Speaker of the House has the power to table or kill any pending legislation. And he'll do it.

And he'll do so at the cost of his career, because the PR alone would sink him.

This is the point in the movie where the hero's managed to snatch a gun from one of the guards, and now it's gone from being a hostage situation to a Mexican standoff.


To further illustrate: this is the point in Face/Off where Gina Gershon walks in and blows Travolta's plan to shiat.
 
2013-10-04 02:42:34 PM  

Infernalist: DamnYankees: Infernalist: This is a brilliant maneuver, whoever thought it up.

Boehner will tell his GOPers to figure out who's in the safest districts that still listen to him and have them vote 'Yes' on the clean CR.

Boehner will make all kinds of loud and angry noises about being circumvented and then shrug his shoulders helplessly at the TP as the CR passes.  "Sorry, I tried!"

The problem for the GOP on this is that they have based their entire policy worldview around the ability of them to control the CR and the debt ceiling is leverage points to get concessions. If they lose control of that, then they literally have nothing. They have absolutely no way of getting policy to move towards them. They have a majority with 0 ways to use it.

They'll have to do it the old fashioned way.  Negotiate in good faith with the Democrats so that both sides get something that they want.


I think you share a different definition of negotiate than the Teahadists do.
 
2013-10-04 02:42:40 PM  
The one thing I don't get is that the speaker position is not tied to party. There is nothing in huse rules that says. Pelosi can't be speaker today, just because her party is in the minority.
 
2013-10-04 02:42:51 PM  

gnosis301: This is Obama's Queequeg's Coffin As Ishmael's Life Raft.


Spoilers!
 
2013-10-04 02:44:07 PM  

FlyingLizardOfDoom: The one thing I don't get is that the speaker position is not tied to party. There is nothing in huse rules that says. Pelosi can't be speaker today, just because her party is in the minority.


That's true, but speakers needs to be elected by a majority of the whole house. So they always come from the majority party.
 
2013-10-04 02:44:08 PM  

cman: Why does that stupid 14th amendment argument come up still?...The amendment says that debt is to be honored, but it doesn't give any power to allow for going around congress. It just says "Pay the farking bills". It doesn't say "The President can do whatever he want to pay the bills"


The Executive Branch of government is in charge of executing the laws of the land, including the Supreme Law of Land. Of course any attempt could be challenged in court. It hasn't been tried---it would be new territory.
 
2013-10-04 02:44:18 PM  

KarmicDisaster: BMulligan: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

Since I calculate the present likelihood of a debt default to be ~100%, I'm prepared to take that risk.

Yup, they were just going to let us default to destroy the country anyway, that's the Teaparty goal.


And I might add, at least this way this forces the Republicans to actually do the default and show that they are responsible, which should help their public opinion polls even more.
 
2013-10-04 02:44:24 PM  

I alone am best: cameroncrazy1984: mikeray: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

I love this idea, we already know we have 800,000 non essentials working in the government. this is a way to cut that number 1 percent every 90 days. I am a conservative and don't give a fark who gets the credit for stopping this childish shiat.

So you're completely OK with all of the national parks being shut down and not in use at all?

The democrats didnt mind, why shouldnt he?


You serious, Clark?
 
2013-10-04 02:44:43 PM  

DamnYankees: Infernalist: This is a brilliant bit of maneuvering on someone's part.

Nancy Pelosi is extremely good at her job.


Yes, once she and Obama started working together the Republicans have been reeling. That is why this shut down occurred, because the Republicans are being out maneuvered

FlashHarry: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

that's a win too, because obama will be "forced" to either use the $1T coin or cite the 14th amendment to ignore the petulant house GOP and the bills will get paid while the republicans look like dangerously unhinged psychopaths.


at every turn and are too stupid to take small wins instead of attempting to run the table every time.
 
2013-10-04 02:44:48 PM  

naughtyrev: So what you're saying is, the House is going to force Boehner to discharge?


I did NOT need that mental image.
Pass the brain bleach, please.
 
2013-10-04 02:44:59 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

The first 1% drop isn't until 120 days in, and then it's 1% down every 90 days.  So, after 1 year if nothing is done it would be down 3%, with another 1% drop looming.


If this works? Not only did the Dems figure a legal way to open the government, they also can argue the remedy cutsthe budget/slows spending to boot - at least it can be argued that way....interesting
 
2013-10-04 02:45:57 PM  

Somacandra: Bontesla: Somacandra: DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.

Boehner has promised not to let a default happen. The non-Bagger Republicans and the Dems would support a debt ceiling increase and Boehner's leadership as speaker.

Boehner has no control over the House.

He has no control over his caucus as a whole. But the 18 Repubs and the Democratic members do not want to see anyone derpier in the Speaker's chair. The Baggers might have the votes to topple him, but they don't have the votes to elect anyone else specifically since the whole House gets to vote. That would make Pelosi a kingmaker and no TBer wants that used against them.


I think there are more than 18 that support the shutdown. Doesn't the 18 refer to the signatories?
 
2013-10-04 02:46:06 PM  

I alone am best: cameroncrazy1984: mikeray: DamnYankees: The more I think about this, the less I like it. If the GOP just sits on its hands, discretionary spending will drop 12% per year. That's insane.

I love this idea, we already know we have 800,000 non essentials working in the government. this is a way to cut that number 1 percent every 90 days. I am a conservative and don't give a fark who gets the credit for stopping this childish shiat.

So you're completely OK with all of the national parks being shut down and not in use at all?

The democrats didnt mind, why shouldnt he?


Hell I don't really care what the choose as long as they have to choose something. I would hope that they would choose wisely but that may be a first.
 
2013-10-04 02:46:15 PM  
********************************************************
UPDATE: One slight clarification. If Dems can get the 218 signatures on the discharge petition, then Dems would use a procedural move to replace the Lankford bill with an amendment: A clean CR, just like the one in the Senate. So this would not enshrine the periodic one-percent reductions in spending in the Lankford measure.
 
2013-10-04 02:46:20 PM  

DamnYankees: My other worry here is that if the Dems did this, it would INFURIATE the GOP and make a debt default more likely.


It also shows that the GOP can be bypassed by splitting off the teabaggers.  If the credit limit is reached then it can be extended without support of 100% of the GOP.  It shows Boner in impotent and teabaggers are irrelevant.
 
2013-10-04 02:46:43 PM  

DamnYankees: That's true, but speakers needs to be elected by a majority of the whole house. So they always come from the majority party.


Which may eventually fall apart as it becomes more evident that you're really the minority party caucusing with the batshiatinsane party in order to maintain an ever-more tenuous grip on power.
 
2013-10-04 02:46:50 PM  

Nadie_AZ: I was ok with this until I read:

After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Isn't this what the GOP wants? Can the amend this? Else we will have the incredible shrinking government. And while some think that is the awesomest of awesome, others realize we have a growing population and a growing elderly population.


Somacandra: Marcus Aurelius: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: shower_in_my_socks: I would prefer that Boehner be forced to do it, sparking a split that makes defaulting on the debt unlikely.

If enough defect, it'll make negotiations more difficult for him during the Debt Ceiling fight as he won't be able to guarantee any votes on anything.

If this happens without Boehner, there may as well be no Speaker of the House.  He'll still be Boehner, but he will have no balls.

Pelosi will make the Dems would support Boehner as Speaker if the Baggers tried to take him out. If they could replace Boehner out easily, they would have done so already.


Now that would be funny! I wouldn't even care that the Repubs retain control of congress if a more moderate is selected. A little opposition is good, but the way the current batch is going is not.
 
2013-10-04 02:47:07 PM  
DIscharge the Boner!
 
2013-10-04 02:47:45 PM  
fta The irony here, of course, is that Dems are effectively hijacking a Republican bill in an effort to undercut the whole House GOP strategy.

My guess is that the Democrats are focused more on ending the pointless shutdown
 
2013-10-04 02:47:53 PM  
static6.businessinsider.com
 
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