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(Sports Illustrated)   Win 90 games and make the playoffs? That's a firing for Dusty Baker   (tracking.si.com) divider line 118
    More: Dumbass, Dusty Baker, reds, Red for Fire, playoffs, Jeff Passan, Jim Riggleman, Triple-A, pitching coach  
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2205 clicks; posted to Sports » on 04 Oct 2013 at 1:15 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-04 10:37:37 AM
Hey Dusty, I understand that Chicago is looking for a new manager. I'm sure they would love to have you back.
 
2013-10-04 10:43:49 AM

Chakro: Hey Dusty, I understand that Chicago is looking for a new manager. I'm sure they would love to have you back.


Isn't it about time for Terry Collins to be fired?
 
2013-10-04 10:52:16 AM
Send him over to Milwaukee. We could suffer under those conditions.
 
2013-10-04 11:44:41 AM
I liked the "Dusty Finished" headline better. Get some pro wrasslin tie in...
 
2013-10-04 12:00:04 PM
He's a good manager, but not a championship manager.
 
2013-10-04 01:11:45 PM
Why do I get the feeling teams don't consider losing the wild card game 'making the playoffs'?

/it's kinda like the NCAA "first round"
 
2013-10-04 01:18:56 PM
I liked my headline better, but I did snert reading this one.
 
2013-10-04 01:19:49 PM
I'd add that the Red Legs won 90 games & made the play-in to the play-offs in spite of Dusty Baker.
 
2013-10-04 01:19:54 PM

exick: Chakro: Hey Dusty, I understand that Chicago is looking for a new manager. I'm sure they would love to have you back.

Isn't it about time for Terry Collins to be fired?


They just gave him a contract extension.
 
2013-10-04 01:21:05 PM
Terry Francona was three outs away from being fired.
 
2013-10-04 01:23:04 PM
Keep him away from Nats Park.
 
2013-10-04 01:23:05 PM
FTFA:  Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports tweeted that Reds players were told of the move on Thursday night and, while they like Baker, most believe the team made the right move.

And that, right there, pretty much sums up Dusty Baker as a manager.  He's always seemed to be more concerned about being "liked" by his players and being thought of as "one of the guys" than actually, y'know, winning the ballgame.  The most obvious example of this is his repeated tendency to leave his pitchers in one inning too long so that their tender feelings aren't hurt by being yanked "too soon"--which resulted in more than one lost series in the postseason, including but not limited to the Giants in the 2003 World Series.
 
2013-10-04 01:24:10 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24001371/baker-challen g ed-reds-gm-if-you-want-to-fire-someone-fire-me

Dusty Baker: "If you want to fire someone, fire me."
Walt Jocketty: "Challenge accepted."

Despite my frustration with his in-game decisions, dusty did give the Reds 3 playoff appearances - which quickly turned into 3 embarrassing playoff exits. It was time.

/ just keep Bryan Price around and I'll be happy.
 
2013-10-04 01:27:29 PM
Hey Dusty....come on up to Seattle.
 
2013-10-04 01:28:52 PM

Cyberluddite: FTFA:  Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports tweeted that Reds players were told of the move on Thursday night and, while they like Baker, most believe the team made the right move.

And that, right there, pretty much sums up Dusty Baker as a manager.  He's always seemed to be more concerned about being "liked" by his players and being thought of as "one of the guys" than actually, y'know, winning the ballgame.  The most obvious example of this is his repeated tendency to leave his pitchers in one inning too long so that their tender feelings aren't hurt by being yanked "too soon"--which resulted in more than one lost series in the postseason, including but not limited to the Giants in the 2003 World Series.


So he got them to the Series, eh? How awful. Terrible. Ned Yost does the same thing and I don't recall the Brewers or the Royals in the Series.
 
2013-10-04 01:31:41 PM

Cyberluddite: FTFA:  Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports tweeted that Reds players were told of the move on Thursday night and, while they like Baker, most believe the team made the right move.

And that, right there, pretty much sums up Dusty Baker as a manager.  He's always seemed to be more concerned about being "liked" by his players and being thought of as "one of the guys" than actually, y'know, winning the ballgame.  The most obvious example of this is his repeated tendency to leave his pitchers in one inning too long so that their tender feelings aren't hurt by being yanked "too soon"--which resulted in more than one lost series in the postseason, including but not limited to the Giants in the 2003 World Series.


2002 WS. 2003 is when he left Prior in too long after Gonzalez wet the bed.


Baker is one of the luckiest people alive. He managed in SF with one of the greatest players of all time when he was playing his best ball (whether you like Bonds or not, he was a monster then), Chicago when they were had Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Sosa, Alou, etc (probably the best Cubs team since the 80s), and in Cincinnati with Votto, Bruce, Cueto, etc.  And yet he's never won a World Series.

Like 4NTLRZ said, teams win despite Dusty Baker, not because of him. He's easily one of the worst managers in the league.
 
2013-10-04 01:34:02 PM
Never understood the Dusty love. In managing he has ruined more than a few arms by leaving his young starters out for way more pitches than they could physically handle.
 
2013-10-04 01:35:07 PM
Ah the patented Schottenheimer maneuver.
 
2013-10-04 01:35:07 PM
Can somebody please talk Lou Piniella out of retirement?
 
2013-10-04 01:36:17 PM
Did they win 90 games because of him, or in spite of him?

That is the real question.
 
2013-10-04 01:37:30 PM

Karma Chameleon: Never understood the Dusty love. In managing he has ruined more than a few arms by leaving his young starters out for way more pitches than they could physically handle.


Because he's a "good guy", who's "friendly with the media", and "respects his players".
 
2013-10-04 01:44:55 PM
img.pandawhale.com
 
2013-10-04 01:46:18 PM
He pretty much did himself in during the pregame interview with Marty Brennaman before the first game with the Mets week before last.

Marty: Dusty, do you feel there's a sense of urgency moving forward through these last two series in regular season.
Dusty: No. There is no sense of urgency until we get down to the wire. Down to the last game.

That worked out real good for the tooth pick spinning idiot. I wonder what the Reds will do with all those left over tooth picks left behind?
 
2013-10-04 01:46:42 PM

Swordblade: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24001371/baker-challen g ed-reds-gm-if-you-want-to-fire-someone-fire-me

Dusty Baker: "If you want to fire someone, fire me."
Walt Jocketty: "Challenge accepted."

Despite my frustration with his in-game decisions, dusty did give the Reds 3 playoff appearances - which quickly turned into 3 embarrassing playoff exits. It was time.

/ just keep Bryan Price around and I'll be happy.


It should be noted that Castellini is denying Dusty's story.
 
2013-10-04 01:48:11 PM

The Singing Bush: Swordblade: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24001371/baker-challen g ed-reds-gm-if-you-want-to-fire-someone-fire-me

Dusty Baker: "If you want to fire someone, fire me."
Walt Jocketty: "Challenge accepted."

Despite my frustration with his in-game decisions, dusty did give the Reds 3 playoff appearances - which quickly turned into 3 embarrassing playoff exits. It was time.

/ just keep Bryan Price around and I'll be happy.

It should be noted that Castellini is denying Dusty's story.


So is Walt Jockerty
 
2013-10-04 01:48:56 PM

Nadie_AZ: So he got them to the Series, eh? How awful.


Yeah, it was pretty tough with batting order than included Jeff Kent (.313 BA, 37 HR, 108 RBI) and Barry Bonds (.370/46/110 with a 1.466 OPS) and had a team batting average that year of .272 and team OPS of .807.  And I'm pretty sure Dusty didn't have a lot to do with that.
 
2013-10-04 01:51:43 PM

arentol: Did they win 90 games because of him, or in spite of him?


In reality, a manager in MLB can probably only directly influence an average of maybe 5-10 games per year. (Unless you're just really, really bad at, well, everything.) And, chances are, those influenced games are going to more-or-less balance out in terms of W-L. So, maybe the Reds would have won 93 games with a different manager; maybe they would have only won 86. Possibly enough to change their playoff positioning, or miss them entirely, but probably not.

However, the *indirect* influence is bigger; leaving starters in too long, or overusing the bullpen, early in the season takes a toll on the pitchers by Aug and Sep. Encouraging overly-aggressive swing-for-fences style over just putting the ball in play (or taking walks, or even just trying to drive up the pitch count) will eventually cause problems against better pitchers - ie, the pitchers most likely to be faced in the playoffs. [Yes, Charlie Manuel, I'm looking at you.] And so on.

Also, that directly-influencing-the-outcome thing is actually more prominent in the postseason. There are still only a handful of games it will apply to, but since the overall sample size is much smaller, and the stakes much higher, those decisions stand out much more. (Ask the 2003 Red Sox)
 
2013-10-04 01:58:37 PM

Nadie_AZ: Send him over to Milwaukee. We could suffer under those conditions.



The ghost of Connie Mack couldn't win 90 games with that pitching staff.
 
2013-10-04 01:59:05 PM

Chakro: Hey Dusty, I understand that Chicago is looking for a new manager. I'm sure they would love to have you back.


Well, considering he and he alone wrecked the arm of every single pitching prospect the Cubs have ever had, ever, I think it's safe to say he won't be visiting them for a job any time soon...
 
2013-10-04 02:00:43 PM
In the end there can be only one champion, and I don't think Dusty Baker had winning the World Series in him. One and done was all he was capable of. He leaves struggling starting pitchers in too long, and has a laid back, casual attitude that just wasn't motivating the team. The Reds just phoning it in down the stretch was proof of that. I am honestly surprised that he didn't retire after that stroke he had last year. Taking it easy and managing a major league ball club are incompatible goals. It was not, as subby suggests, a dumbass decision.
 
2013-10-04 02:02:57 PM

uncoveror: In the end there can be only one champion, and I don't think Dusty Baker had winning the World Series in him. One and done was all he was capable of. He leaves struggling starting pitchers in too long, and has a laid back, casual attitude that just wasn't motivating the team. The Reds just phoning it in down the stretch was proof of that. I am honestly surprised that he didn't retire after that stroke he had last year. Taking it easy and managing a major league ball club are incompatible goals. It was not, as subby suggests, a dumbass decision.


Maybe Zack Cozart is subby ;)
 
2013-10-04 02:07:26 PM
and yet, somehow, Buddy Black still has a job
 
2013-10-04 02:07:27 PM

The_Sponge: Hey Dusty....come on up to Seattle.


Sure, just have Felix Hernandez throw 165 pitches every 5 days.  He might last all the way until August!

/ He doesn't look tired
// I go by what I see, none of this "evidence" and "statistics" mumbo-jumbo
 
2013-10-04 02:08:47 PM

The_Sponge: Hey Dusty....come on up to Seattle.


No. I'd take Ron Washington in a heartbeat.
 
2013-10-04 02:09:36 PM
I agree with the cat that thinks this is "Good".

Dear Marvin Lewis,
Please take note what happens to head coaches that can't win a playoff game in Cincinnati.  This could be your last year.  While I'm at it tell Dalton to stop sucking.. maybe dye his hair.. some black stripes wouldn't be bad.
Thanks,
Me
 
2013-10-04 02:10:02 PM

RumsfeldsReplacement: The_Sponge: Hey Dusty....come on up to Seattle.

Sure, just have Felix Hernandez throw 165 pitches every 5 days.  He might last all the way until August!

/ He doesn't look tired
// I go by what I see, none of this "evidence" and "statistics" mumbo-jumbo


I was pissed when they didn't just shut him down when he didn't get hurt.
 
2013-10-04 02:11:38 PM
He, Lovie Smith and Marty Schottenheimer should do lunch some time.
 
2013-10-04 02:14:50 PM
Hallelujah!!!!!!
 
2013-10-04 02:15:29 PM

Tango_down: I agree with the cat that thinks this is "Good".

Dear Marvin Lewis,
Please take note what happens to head coaches that can't win a playoff game in Cincinnati.  This could be your last year.  While I'm at it tell Dalton to stop sucking.. maybe dye his hair.. some black stripes wouldn't be bad.
Thanks,
Me


If you are really a Bengals fan (as I am), how can you not understand that Marvin Lewis is the best coach they're going to get?  They're not going to find a better coach will work for Mike Brown.  Lewis has spent the last 10 years wrestling control away from Brown bit by bit and making the team at least competitive.  Mark my words:  if Lewis gets fired before Brown dies, it will be the 90's all over again.
 
2013-10-04 02:16:16 PM

The_Sponge: Hey Dusty....come on up to Seattle.


I mean, Danny Hultzen is already ruined anyway, so why not?
 
2013-10-04 02:20:01 PM
To me, the game 163, potential 164, or the wild card play-in game aren't really "making the playoffs".  I mean, it's nice that you finished with a good record, 90 wins is a good year, but if you aren't in the divisional series, you're not in the playoffs.
 
2013-10-04 02:23:03 PM
The Giants could use a new manager, has he ever coached football.
 
2013-10-04 02:23:20 PM

Nadie_AZ: Cyberluddite: FTFA:  Jeff Passan of Yahoo! Sports tweeted that Reds players were told of the move on Thursday night and, while they like Baker, most believe the team made the right move.

And that, right there, pretty much sums up Dusty Baker as a manager.  He's always seemed to be more concerned about being "liked" by his players and being thought of as "one of the guys" than actually, y'know, winning the ballgame.  The most obvious example of this is his repeated tendency to leave his pitchers in one inning too long so that their tender feelings aren't hurt by being yanked "too soon"--which resulted in more than one lost series in the postseason, including but not limited to the Giants in the 2003 World Series.

So he got them to the Series, eh? How awful. Terrible. Ned Yost does the same thing and I don't recall the Brewers or the Royals in the Series.





IMHO KC won 86 games despite Yost. Baker and Yost both leave pitchers in to long and fail making in game decisions.

/ Who's else on the hot seat?
//I'm shocked that LAA gm hasn't been fired yet.
 
2013-10-04 02:23:42 PM

MFAWG: The_Sponge: Hey Dusty....come on up to Seattle.

No. I'd take Ron Washington in a heartbeat.


So he can let a different class of excellent pitchers know that he has no confidence in their ability to get one out when it's needed most?  Because that's pretty much his crowning accomplishment thus far.
 
2013-10-04 02:30:18 PM
The obvious lineup for the Reds should have been Choo, Votto, Phillips, Bruce. You can swap Votto and Phillips. Most of the season he had Cozart 2nd and Phillips 4th with Bruce 5th. That and leaving pitchers in too long and not doing anything to get the team excited or motivated, especially when they screwed up is a prime example of why I am glad to see Dusty go. Most of the games I went to the team looked like it was sleep-walking.
 
2013-10-04 02:30:22 PM

exick: Chakro: Hey Dusty, I understand that Chicago is looking for a new manager. I'm sure they would love to have you back.

Isn't it about time for Terry Collins to be fired?


Collins is solidly meh.  If the Mets had ditched him, I'd say there's a 50/50 chance the replacement would be better.  He's not a good game manager (but not an awful one.)  He gets his guys to play hard.  Shrug.
 
2013-10-04 02:43:25 PM
He crabbed about the way their best player, who is under a long-ass contract for a lot of money, approached hitting (never mind the guy got that huge contract by hitting the way he did).  Between that and the usual Dusty idiocy, I'm not surprised he's gone despite the 90 wins/wild card appearance.
 
2013-10-04 02:53:05 PM
Baker seems to be good at turning bad franchises around and making them competitive, but not at getting them to the championship level.  In that respect, he kind of reminds me of Gene Mauch.  It's a road to getting fired -- when you get people's expectations up but can't deliver the prize, they stop thanking you and start blaming you instead.
 
2013-10-04 03:01:17 PM

GQueue: He crabbed about the way their best player, who is under a long-ass contract for a lot of money, approached hitting (never mind the guy got that huge contract by hitting the way he did).  Between that and the usual Dusty idiocy, I'm not surprised he's gone despite the 90 wins/wild card appearance.


Not sure who you're talking about, but I'm guessing it has something to do with the way he just clogs up the bases.
 
2013-10-04 03:01:56 PM

ragsthetiger: Baker seems to be good at turning bad franchises around and making them competitive, but not at getting them to the championship level.  In that respect, he kind of reminds me of Gene Mauch.  It's a road to getting fired -- when you get people's expectations up but can't deliver the prize, they stop thanking you and start blaming you instead.


Yep. You can be your own worst enemy in this regard. And Dusty was his own worst enemy.
 
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