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(Reuters)   Staff inside the IRS who defend taxpayers were furloughed, while those who pursue taxpayers were not. In other news, the IRS had a wing that defended taxpayers   (in.reuters.com) divider line 101
    More: Obvious, IRS, taxpayers, U.S. Tax Court, University of Arkansas, state property, University of Connecticut  
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2359 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2013 at 1:02 PM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-03 11:46:55 AM
So they keep the folks who bring in the cash and dump those who don't. It's like they're running a business or something.
 
2013-10-03 12:36:51 PM
I have help from the IRS before. Awesome group of people who speed up the process and helped us a lot when we needed it.

It's a good program. Sad that those people are not getting paid in this stupid little game.
 
2013-10-03 12:51:50 PM
Sure they do.  Have you not heard the phrase "A wing and a payer"?
 
2013-10-03 12:56:43 PM
Well, since the job of the IRS is tax collection, I would say that one group is essential, while the other is not.

A lot of people have been whining and complaining about their pet projects being funded or not and casting political aspersions, but if you take a hard look you find that the majority come down to "essential" vs. "non essential".

NASA's website is down because they have no essential mission that involves public outreach. The CDC's website is not down because a large part of their essential mission is outreach. Duh.

My favorite branch of government (the NSF) is completely shut down. They're not even paying out on established and funded grants, just because they don't have the people to administrate them. In their words, they're only paying out if not doing so would cause "an imminent danger to life or property." Lots of things that could get someone hurt or killed (like a lapse in food and drug inspections) are not being funded.

Shut down means "shut down." You wouldn't expect your computer to perform services for you while it was "shut down". You wouldn't expect your car to go anyplace if it was "shut down". In the case of the federal government, it means that it's not doing anything except keeping enough lights on to keep the robbers away. They aren't producing anything during this time.
 
2013-10-03 01:03:42 PM

I_Am_Weasel: Sure they do.  Have you not heard the phrase "A wing and a payer"?


No! No internets for you.
Only groans. Horrible, soul-wrenching groans.
 
2013-10-03 01:07:09 PM
Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired? How can they be held accountable? Regardless of which side of the coin one sits on.

I find it odd that the public can't actually do anything given massive corruption.
 
2013-10-03 01:07:30 PM

comhcinc: I have help from the IRS before. Awesome group of people who speed up the process and helped us a lot when we needed it.

It's a good program. Sad that those people are not getting paid in this stupid little game.


That's the thing that pisses me off so much.  Republicans are acting like government employees are worthless, but whenever most people have interactions with the government, they turn out to be very helpful.  My CSB: when I was traveling in Canada with my family, my dad got his passport stolen.  We thought we were screwed, but the consulate staff was super helpful in getting the passport canceled and even got my dad a temporary replacement passport THE SAME DAY.

And yet all we hear from Republicans is how government workers are lazy, rude, and inefficient.  Fark them.  I like government employees and I hope they get back to work real soon.  I especially hope people realize how much the Republican party is to blame for this shiat.
 
2013-10-03 01:08:07 PM

Coastalgrl: Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired? How can they be held accountable? Regardless of which side of the coin one sits on.

I find it odd that the public can't actually do anything given massive corruption.


The public can stop voting for GOP candidates.
 
2013-10-03 01:08:16 PM
Good.

Keep it permanent. The more you pay in taxes, the more patriotic you are. You don't hate america do you?
 
2013-10-03 01:08:18 PM

edmo: So they keep the folks who bring in the cash and dump those who don't. It's like they're running a business or something.


The funny thing is, the Republicans who support the shutdown probably want to re-initiate the government to run like a business, if they got their way.
 
2013-10-03 01:08:30 PM

Coastalgrl: Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired? How can they be held accountable? Regardless of which side of the coin one sits on.

I find it odd that the public can't actually do anything given massive corruption.


Same way every elected official gets held accountable; at the next election.
 
2013-10-03 01:09:15 PM

Coastalgrl: Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired?


The voters caused the shutdown, so no they cannot be fired.
 
2013-10-03 01:10:03 PM

Coastalgrl: How can they be held accountable?


If you ever overhear a friend say that  you should vote for candidate X because he pisses of libs, punch that person in the throat.
 
2013-10-03 01:10:33 PM

Coastalgrl: Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired? How can they be held accountable? Regardless of which side of the coin one sits on.

I find it odd that the public can't actually do anything given massive corruption.


We have these crazy things called elections that happen every two years for congress, 4 for president, and 6 for senators.

We get to fire the dolts fairly often if we choose to (aside from gerrymandering issues).
 
2013-10-03 01:11:21 PM

BSABSVR: Coastalgrl: How can they be held accountable?

If you ever overhear a friend say that  you should vote for candidate X because he pisses of libs

another party, punch that person in the throat.

Fix'd. Voting for anyone else would hurt the country, and therefore the person who does it deserves to be hurt.
 
2013-10-03 01:11:34 PM

Fubini: Well, since the job of the IRS is tax collection, I would say that one group is essential, while the other is not.

A lot of people have been whining and complaining about their pet projects being funded or not and casting political aspersions, but if you take a hard look you find that the majority come down to "essential" vs. "non essential".

NASA's website is down because they have no essential mission that involves public outreach. The CDC's website is not down because a large part of their essential mission is outreach. Duh.

My favorite branch of government (the NSF) is completely shut down. They're not even paying out on established and funded grants, just because they don't have the people to administrate them. In their words, they're only paying out if not doing so would cause "an imminent danger to life or property." Lots of things that could get someone hurt or killed (like a lapse in food and drug inspections) are not being funded.

Shut down means "shut down." You wouldn't expect your computer to perform services for you while it was "shut down". You wouldn't expect your car to go anyplace if it was "shut down". In the case of the federal government, it means that it's not doing anything except keeping enough lights on to keep the robbers away. They aren't producing anything during this time.


It's almost as if some people don't understand that shutting down the federal government means shutting down a lot more than politicians. Either that, or they just don't know what it means to shut something down.
 
2013-10-03 01:11:52 PM
I have a nasty letter from the IRS pinned to my bulletin board and I'm looking forward to getting some help defending myself.  I'd like to think that the deck is not stacked against me if I accept and IRS defender.

i90.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-03 01:12:27 PM
"an"

/beer!
 
2013-10-03 01:17:12 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Coastalgrl: Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired? How can they be held accountable? Regardless of which side of the coin one sits on.

I find it odd that the public can't actually do anything given massive corruption.

The public can stop voting for GOP candidates.


Yes but Im looking for a more immediate solution in the next couple of weeks. not wait till the next election. The GOP are nuts and I get sick thinking all the reasons I can't stand them. I say eliminate the entire party. Wasn't it Washington that didn't want a 2 party system?

I also can't believe that the FDA and NSF are shut down. So is WIC. I am former federal (only because I went back to school for PhD) and 90% of the people I worked with were amazing. There are always some bad apples but 9/10, if I was having troubles at work, it was because of a contractor who didn't do the job right, or in some cases at all. I had one contractor be over 9 mos late delivering report/data. I routinely had to look for padding in proposals. Oh yeah, lets let the free market decide everything. Makes total sense. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I tend to think the rich just want the poor to disappear, or in some cases, die of starvation.
 
2013-10-03 01:18:43 PM

HMS_Blinkin: comhcinc: I have help from the IRS before. Awesome group of people who speed up the process and helped us a lot when we needed it.

It's a good program. Sad that those people are not getting paid in this stupid little game.

That's the thing that pisses me off so much.  Republicans are acting like government employees are worthless, but whenever most people have interactions with the government, they turn out to be very helpful.  My CSB: when I was traveling in Canada with my family, my dad got his passport stolen.  We thought we were screwed, but the consulate staff was super helpful in getting the passport canceled and even got my dad a temporary replacement passport THE SAME DAY.

And yet all we hear from Republicans is how government workers are lazy, rude, and inefficient.  Fark them.  I like government employees and I hope they get back to work real soon.  I especially hope people realize how much the Republican party is to blame for this shiat.


Yeah I have never had an issues when dealing with government employees. Then again I am always polite and let them know that I understand they have a lot of work to do and don't mind a normal wait time.
 
2013-10-03 01:18:56 PM
www.perdue.com
It was a very small wing.
 
2013-10-03 01:18:58 PM
Both guys are said to be inconsolable, have no idea what to do with themselves with their newfound freedom.
 
2013-10-03 01:19:00 PM

monoski: Coastalgrl: Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired?

The voters caused the shutdown, so no they cannot be fired.


I would say these candidates are guilty of fraud and fire them for not doing their job.

What really gets me, is every time I see a GOP guys talking, they keep referring to God and how they are upholding their Christian teachings. What the heck happened to separation of church and state!!
 
2013-10-03 01:25:07 PM

Coastalgrl: Yes but Im looking for a more immediate solution in the next couple of weeks. not wait till the next election. The GOP are nuts and I get sick thinking all the reasons I can't stand them. I say eliminate the entire party. Wasn't it Washington that didn't want a 2 party system?


There is nothing we can do in that short of a time span, short of an enormous angry mob storming the capitol and dragging GOP congressmen out into a bloody death in the streets.  I think the most likely solution will come from (I hate to say it) corporations.  The big money guys don't like "uncertainty" as the GOP is fond of saying, but in the last few years, the GOP has been the sole cause of ALL the uncertainty over government actions.

The corporations and finance guys are going to want the GOP, especially the tea party, out.  They'd way rather deal with Obamacare than with continued government shut downs, threats of shut downs, and even the possibility of a federal default.
 
2013-10-03 01:25:24 PM

Fubini: My favorite branch of government (the NSF) is completely shut down. They're not even paying out on established and funded grants


There's a shock...
 
2013-10-03 01:28:05 PM

Coastalgrl: What really gets me, is every time I see a GOP guys talking, they keep referring to God and how they are upholding their Christian teachings. What the heck happened to separation of church and state!!


They've been doing that shiat for years.  Remember, church and state only need to be separated when the church in question isn't evangelical protestant christianity.  Also, that church has to focus more on the "we hate gays" stuff than the "Jesus said to feed and clothe the poor" stuff.  Otherwise, it's a socialist church that isn't actually church that spawns terrorists and hates America.
 
2013-10-03 01:28:15 PM

Coastalgrl: monoski: Coastalgrl: Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired?

The voters caused the shutdown, so no they cannot be fired.

I would say these candidates are guilty of fraud and fire them for not doing their job.

What really gets me, is every time I see a GOP guys talking, they keep referring to God and how they are upholding their Christian teachings. What the heck happened to separation of church and state!!


Never mind the fact they openly defy the teachings of their messiah.  Jesus was not a corporate whore who held profits above all else, especially the well-being of the poor.

/ he also wasn't real, but they don't know that
 
2013-10-03 01:28:22 PM

HMS_Blinkin: There is nothing we can do in that short of a time span, short of an enormous angry mob storming the capitol and dragging GOP congressmen out into a bloody death in the streets.  I think the most likely solution will come from (I hate to say it) corporations.  The big money guys don't like "uncertainty" as the GOP is fond of saying, but in the last few years, the GOP has been the sole cause of ALL the uncertainty over government actions.


Not dragging out into the streets, but make a big enough fuss. They do respond to that, though it's not punitive.

Chant, "End the republican shutdown!" enough times, and they'll start to get a little bashful.
 
2013-10-03 01:29:33 PM

Coastalgrl: monoski: Coastalgrl: Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired?

The voters caused the shutdown, so no they cannot be fired.

I would say these candidates are guilty of fraud and fire them for not doing their job.


izquotes.com

Kind of sums it up.
 
2013-10-03 01:29:52 PM

comhcinc: Yeah I have never had an issues when dealing with government employees. Then again I am always polite and let them know that I understand they have a lot of work to do and don't mind a normal wait time.


There's your problem.  Next time you go to the DMV, ride a hoverround with flags all over it and yell that as a taxpayer* you deserve the right to be helped immediately.  Also, remind them loudly and repeatedly that YOU pay their salaries.

*sales taxes are still taxes!
 
2013-10-03 01:31:45 PM

Fubini: Chant, "End the republican shutdown!" enough times, and they'll start to get a little bashful.


I guarantee they won't.  The live in the FOX bubble.  They also know that they're incredibly safe from being voted out of congress, thanks to gerrymandering.  These are democratically-elected government officials who have absolutely no motivation to act in the people's will or best interest.
 
2013-10-03 01:31:52 PM
Got help earlier this year in a tax dispute with the IRS, from the IRS taxpayer appeals support dept. in Philadelphia. Pleasant, polite lady who, when I began to get to a point that I realized the IRS was right and I was wrong, kept exploring ways to still try to help me "win" my dispute. Then when we finally realized I was definitely wrong, she helped arrange the process to pay the money and avoid any further fines.
These people were really trying to be fair and serve the public and follow the laws.

/never thought I'd be a fan of any part of the IRS
 
2013-10-03 01:32:22 PM

comhcinc: I have help from the IRS before. Awesome group of people who speed up the process and helped us a lot when we needed it.

It's a good program. Sad that those people are not getting paid in this stupid little game.


I got laid off, and they were incredibly helpful with some tax issues I had. I had no idea that people in the IRS would help with tax issues without my having to hire a lawyer.
 
2013-10-03 01:34:23 PM

Digital Communist: Coastalgrl: monoski: Coastalgrl: Dumb question. Can the nutjobs that caused the shut down be fired?

The voters caused the shutdown, so no they cannot be fired.

I would say these candidates are guilty of fraud and fire them for not doing their job.

What really gets me, is every time I see a GOP guys talking, they keep referring to God and how they are upholding their Christian teachings. What the heck happened to separation of church and state!!

Never mind the fact they openly defy the teachings of their messiah.  Jesus was not a corporate whore who held profits above all else, especially the well-being of the poor.

/ he also wasn't real, but they don't know that


Remind me again of Jesus' teachings vis-a-vis secular government.
 
2013-10-03 01:34:54 PM
The office that defends tax payers is actually pretty good.  A few years ago, the IRS lost my refund for a little over a year and would not respond to my inquiries, so they referred me to the tax payer advocate department.  In the end, I got my refund + modest interest on it.  I was shocked.
 
2013-10-03 01:36:24 PM
Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.
- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. 1904
 
2013-10-03 01:37:35 PM
I didn't have to use them, but I did find out about the Taxpayer Advocate Service when computer glitches delayed AND underestimated our refund... twice. They're the very helpful last resort for all sorts of tax issues, not just delinquencies.
 
2013-10-03 01:39:59 PM
Lack of knowledge about how the IRS (and government in general) functions is necessary for teabaggerhood
 
2013-10-03 01:40:09 PM
"Leyden said her group assists as many as 140 people a year in fighting IRS disputes."
-=-

So let me guess and say that "You folks who own GE will have to pay for your own defense."
 
2013-10-03 01:41:51 PM
The sad part is that we would even need a consumer advocate branch for the IRS.  The agency should be neutral to begin with and not have to pit itself against itself.  But their unrequited greed needs to be satiated somehow and I guess that's what warrants this divide.  Tax code simplification would be just too much to ask for.
 
2013-10-03 01:46:37 PM

Fubini: Well, since the job of the IRS is tax collection, I would say that one group is essential, while the other is not.


The IRS can and will seize property from delinquent taxpayers.  Taxpayers can negotiate with the IRS to forgive part of the tax burden or extend payment and instead garnish wages or such.  In essence, the default mode of operation is for the IRS to come destroy your life and damage the US economy in the process; but they provide a method for you to contact them and work out something reasonable so that you get to keep your house and feed your family, but still need to pay up.  Slowly.

The part of the IRS that comes and takes all your shiat is still running.

The part of the IRS that supplies due process is shut down.

... so uh.  You know that dumb Jeffersonian argument about the second amendment?  ... I uh.  I think this is it.  This is why we need our guns, I guess.
 
2013-10-03 01:52:55 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Coastalgrl: Yes but Im looking for a more immediate solution in the next couple of weeks. not wait till the next election. The GOP are nuts and I get sick thinking all the reasons I can't stand them. I say eliminate the entire party. Wasn't it Washington that didn't want a 2 party system?

There is nothing we can do in that short of a time span, short of an enormous angry mob storming the capitol and dragging GOP congressmen out into a bloody death in the streets.  I think the most likely solution will come from (I hate to say it) corporations.  The big money guys don't like "uncertainty" as the GOP is fond of saying, but in the last few years, the GOP has been the sole cause of ALL the uncertainty over government actions.

The corporations and finance guys are going to want the GOP, especially the tea party, out.  They'd way rather deal with Obamacare than with continued government shut downs, threats of shut downs, and even the possibility of a federal default.


In that short of a time span? i can think of a few things. But no one with the balls to do it.
 
2013-10-03 01:53:46 PM

Coastalgrl: What really gets me, is every time I see a GOP guys talking, they keep referring to God and how they are upholding their Christian teachings. What the heck happened to separation of church and state!!


It was never a thing.  Congress shall make no law establishing or restricting the practice of religion; that doesn't mean they can't use religion as their moral guide for what laws are good for society.  Thou Shalt Not Steal, that's a good one, good Jesus teaching (well okay, Moses, way before Jesus, from the time of Jehovah), that should be a law.  Don't take my shiat without asking me.
 
2013-10-03 01:54:43 PM
Say what?  I'm a IRS Revenue Agent and I'm sitting at home typing this.

That being said, if your bank account is levied and the bank properly transmits the money found in the account, you would want it promptly processed to stop interest accruing.  The automatic system must be maintained, businesses are making employment tax deposits, etc. via EFT's, the manual system must be maintained, as paper payments and returns are arriving at the Service Centers.  If there's something that's incorrect, it will have to be corrected at a later date. It can't be helped, they were mandated to tell a certain amount of employees to stay home.
 
2013-10-03 01:55:31 PM

bluefoxicy: Fubini: Well, since the job of the IRS is tax collection, I would say that one group is essential, while the other is not.

The IRS can and will seize property from delinquent taxpayers.  Taxpayers can negotiate with the IRS to forgive part of the tax burden or extend payment and instead garnish wages or such.  In essence, the default mode of operation is for the IRS to come destroy your life and damage the US economy in the process; but they provide a method for you to contact them and work out something reasonable so that you get to keep your house and feed your family, but still need to pay up.  Slowly.

The part of the IRS that comes and takes all your shiat is still running.

The part of the IRS that supplies due process is shut down.

... so uh.  You know that dumb Jeffersonian argument about the second amendment?  ... I uh.  I think this is it.  This is why we need our guns, I guess.


Like you have the guts to do it.  You don't, or you would have already.
 
2013-10-03 01:55:38 PM

BSABSVR: If you ever overhear a friend say that you should vote for candidate X because he pisses of libs, punch that person in the throat.


It's long long past time that we stopped humoring these people.
 

hammettman: I have a nasty letter from the IRS pinned to my bulletin board and I'm looking forward to getting some help defending myself.  I'd like to think that the deck is not stacked against me if I accept and IRS defender.



In general the IRS just wants it's money and not to have to do extra work to get it. And they don't even want it right now, just enough over time.


My mother used to work for the IRS, back when the IRS was nasty. In general.

1. If you go to the IRS and say you have a problem.  No problem, they'll make out a payment plan, sometimes on generous terms.
2. If they come to you, then, no problem, they'll make out a payment plan on less generous terms.
3. If they catch you actively trying to hide income from the, they get annoyed.
4. When they catch you, if you act like the kid with his hand in the cookie jar going ''nah nah nah you can't stop me' then the hammer comes down.
 
2013-10-03 01:57:45 PM

bluefoxicy: Coastalgrl: What really gets me, is every time I see a GOP guys talking, they keep referring to God and how they are upholding their Christian teachings. What the heck happened to separation of church and state!!

It was never a thing.  Congress shall make no law establishing or restricting the practice of religion; that doesn't mean they can't use religion as their moral guide for what laws are good for society.  Thou Shalt Not Steal, that's a good one, good Jesus teaching (well okay, Moses, way before Jesus, from the time of Jehovah), that should be a law.  Don't take my shiat without asking me.


Are you really so stupid as to believe "don't take my shiat" is a principle that can only come from a religious belief?
 
2013-10-03 01:58:05 PM

super_grass: Fix'd. Voting for anyone else would hurt the country, and therefore the person who does it deserves to be hurt.


That's not fixed, that makes no sense.  What does "voting for another party" mean?  Are you saying voting in general?
 
2013-10-03 02:01:48 PM
I work for the IRS, currently on an extended vacation thanks to the GOP.  This year I am going to volunteer to help prepare returns.  We really do try to help taxpayers find all the deductions they are qualified for.  It is not like we get bonus points depending on how much money we can bring in.  Most of the horror stories I have heard about the IRS usually turn out to be from people trying to cheat the IRS in the first place and got caught.

The section I work in audits big business and foreign corporations.  You would be shocked at the billions of dollars hidden away and never reported out there.  Some of these audits can take many years, and then they are usually tied up in court for a few more years.  After a 3 year hiring and pay freeze many have retired or left the IRS, and these tax agents are not easily replaced.

Oh well, back to watching crappy daytime TV.
 
2013-10-03 02:01:58 PM

Nesher: Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.
- Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. 1904


No, carrying a concealed firearm creates a civilized society.
Taxes are like giving the mob money for protection.
 
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