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(Tacoma News Tribune)   Mariners beat writer: This team sucked in 2013 and was 29th in MLB attendance. What do you plan to do about it? CEO: We'll tell everyone how awesome our stadium is   (blog.thenewstribune.com) divider line 43
    More: Dumbass, Major League Baseball, Jack Zduriencik, Eric Wedge, Mariners, Safeco Field, Justin Smoak, News Tribune, American League  
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466 clicks; posted to Sports » on 03 Oct 2013 at 9:47 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



43 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-03 10:14:42 AM
Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong do not have the ability to assemble a winning major league team. The only time they had a team that won, it was because they inherited a booming minor league operation, and they had actual baseball talent at the manager and GM. Both left, and they've made certain never to let those things happen again.

Nobody with quality in MLB will work for these guys, and that's been true for a decade now.

We've pretty much given up out here. Nintendo does not care, the way MLB is structured the team makes money off TV even if the stadium's 3/4 empty. They can't give away tickets any more, interest in watching the team play is so bad.

And meanwhile across the street, the NFL and MLS local franchises put on a clinic on how to build a roster and compete at the major league level in this remote marketplace.

One thing missing from that article: The Mariners ownership actively lobbied to keep the attempt to build a basketball stadium a few blocks away. Apparently did not want any more competition showing up and not sucking.
 
2013-10-03 10:19:22 AM
After the Japanese dude died I'd have thought that the mariners would finally do something about the most untouchable font office guys in sports outside of jerry Jones and his son. But apparently not. At this point I have no idea what it will take to put chuck and Howard on the hot seat. Apparently it's going to take death. Fact is they suck at their jobs.
 
2013-10-03 10:21:54 AM
Keep Felix, Kuma, the stadium, garlic fries and nuke the rest of this bullshiat organization.

Personally, I am not spending one more dime on the Mariners till I see a winning product. Were turning into the Pittsburgh Pirates of the past. We havent dont jack shiat in almost 20 years, yet they relive 1995 like it was yesterday
 
2013-10-03 10:22:39 AM

JohnBigBootay: After the Japanese dude died I'd have thought that the mariners would finally do something about the most untouchable font office guys in sports outside of jerry Jones and his son. But apparently not. At this point I have no idea what it will take to put chuck and Howard on the hot seat. Apparently it's going to take death. Fact is they suck at their jobs.


It's only been a week, and I'm betting it takes at least a couple of months to sort the dudes estate out, especially since he was in the middle of a fairly nasty divorce.
 
2013-10-03 10:23:53 AM
haha from the article "I think we've got really an outstanding front office."

funny, the rest of the city of Seattle disagrees there buddy, that is the problem with thinking bud.
 
2013-10-03 10:31:16 AM
Generation_D: ...the way MLB is structured the team makes money off TV even if the stadium's 3/4 empty. They can't give away tickets any more, interest in watching the team play is so bad....

This is the new strategy for the Houston Astros.  TV rights and the luxury tax were more than enough to make them the most profitable franchise in sports history all while having the lowest payroll and the most losses.  It really sucks being an Astros fan as long as I have and seeing them reduced to this.

/Screw Jim Crane
//Screw him long and hard
///Slashies!
 
2013-10-03 10:40:44 AM
Hey it worked for the Pirates

Also don't get mad at the Astros yet. They NEEDED a slash and burn rebuild. They aren't the Marlins until every yearis a rebuilding year.
 
2013-10-03 10:44:44 AM

mentallo69: haha from the article "I think we've got really an outstanding front office."
funny, the rest of the city of Seattle disagrees there buddy, that is the problem with thinking bud.


The front office of Seattle is actually excellent.  They make money whether you attend the games or not.  I'd call that an enviable business model.

Of course the business model has nothing to do with your concerns, but teams whose owners care about the fans are the exception, not the rule.  At least in the PacNW people are savvy enough to notice shiat when they see it and walk away.  On this side of the Rockies people are so stupid they'll happily throw thousands at a billionaire that's laughing all the way to the bank and call it "loyalty".
 
2013-10-03 10:49:17 AM
I do think there are some pieces in place, but not enough to contend unless they go get some premiere free agents -- which they've tried and failed miserably to do in the past.  Nobody wants to sign there until the organization shows some signs of not being a complete clusterfark.  They'll probably go after Jacoby Ellsbury this offseason, the same way they went after Nick Swisher and Josh Hamilton last year, the same way they went after Prince Fielder the year before.

And now it looks like Danny Hultzen may never pitch in the major leagues.  Can't even catch a farking break, man.
 
2013-10-03 10:51:47 AM
I doubt the Mariners could beat a writer
 
2013-10-03 11:00:39 AM
SAFECO is a great place to watch a game.  Especially if you're not pulling for the M's.  Oakland on the other hand, is an utter shiatstain.  Go A's!!!
 
2013-10-03 11:10:51 AM

m1ke: This is the new strategy for the Houston Astros.  TV rights and the luxury tax were more than enough to make them the most profitable franchise in sports history all while having the lowest payroll and the most losses.  It really sucks being an Astros fan as long as I have and seeing them reduced to this


I think it's actually a good strategy.  If their front office is good at drafting and identifying talent they'll develop a good core in-house and then fill in with a few free agents.  And I think people generally think they've put together a good front office.  It's painful now (I'm a White Sox fan, they were nearly as unwatchable this year but for a few of the starting pitchers), but should pay off later.  Frankly, it's better than half-assing a rebuild and getting stuck in a permanent 75-ish win rut that never gets you anywhere.
 
2013-10-03 11:11:49 AM

PluckYew: SAFECO is a great place to watch a game.  Especially if you're not pulling for the M's.  Oakland on the other hand, is an utter shiatstain.  Go A's!!!


It's not even hyperbole to say the A's stadium is a shiatstain -- they probably have them all over the clubhouses and dugouts now with the sewage backup problems they've been having.
 
2013-10-03 11:13:03 AM
Isn't attendance nearly irrelevant with corporations buying tons of tickets (that usually go unused)?  How horrible were the TV ratings for Seattle?
 
2013-10-03 11:17:00 AM

ElwoodCuse: Hey it worked for the Pirates


If you're referring to "build an awesome stadium and people will show up even if the team is crap," I'm wondering how well that actually worked for the Pirates.  The attendance numbers for the first two years PNC was open look fairly decent, but they were in the bottom 5 for attendance from 2004 to 2010.  In 2011 they improved four spots in the MLB attendance rankings from 2010 thanks to the team showing signs of life.  What's difficult to control for is that PNC has the 6th smallest capacity in the major leagues.  However, the Pirates outdrew several teams with larger stadiums in 2011 and 2012.  I'm using Baseball-Reference.com for my total attendance numbers and Wikipedia for my capacity rank, in case anyone wanted a citation.  Does anyone know if there's a source out there that has a season by season list of the average percentage of seats sold per game for MLB teams?
 
2013-10-03 11:21:10 AM
GQueue:  It's painful now (I'm a White Sox fan, they were nearly as unwatchable this year but for a few of the starting pitchers)

Cheer up, things are looking up for you.  The Blackhawks are playing again and you don't have to watch the Sox for another 6 months.
 
2013-10-03 11:42:40 AM

Polish Hussar: Cheer up, things are looking up for you.  The Blackhawks are playing again and you don't have to watch the Sox for another 6 months


And the Bears look somewhat functional, 2nd quarter against the Lions notwithstanding.  And the Bulls should be good.

This summer didn't see a whole lot of baseball interest in this town in general.  The Cubs were terrible, the Sox even worse, the only thing really worth watching on either side of town was Chris Sale.
 
2013-10-03 11:47:07 AM

m1ke: Generation_D: ...the way MLB is structured the team makes money off TV even if the stadium's 3/4 empty. They can't give away tickets any more, interest in watching the team play is so bad....

This is the new strategy for the Houston Astros.  TV rights and the luxury tax were more than enough to make them the most profitable franchise in sports history all while having the lowest payroll and the most losses.  It really sucks being an Astros fan as long as I have and seeing them reduced to this.

/Screw Jim Crane
//Screw him long and hard
///Slashies!


Yeah, thst original article about the Astros being the most profitable was debunked a couple of days after it came out.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2013/08/29/erroneous-story-cla i ming-houston-astros-most-profitable-ever-a-massive-strikeout/

Jim Crane might be a horrible owner if he pulls a Loria in a couple/few years when its time to pay the young talent that they are stockpiling.

The Astros suckitude right now is because of McClane being utterly negligent before he sold.
 
2013-10-03 11:53:45 AM
FTA: With you regards to Jack and the one-year extension, if you have faith in the plan, why not three years? Why just one?

Contract extensions are a distraction. They are a distraction for the fans, for the media, for everyone. I don't care what contract extensions are, whether they are one year, three years or five years, because at the end of the day, you can have a contract extension, and if you aren't performing, we are going to let you go and we'll eat that contract. I think focusing on these contract extensions and their terms misses the point. The point is, "do you have confidence in this employee? And if you do, then he remains an employee. If you don't, he is not an employee, regardless of what his contract says.


Amen. I wish more players/managers had this philosophy when contract time rolls around. I'm sick of negotiations and hold-outs.

That was an interesting read, and I'm not even a Mariners fan. Thanks, subby.

/not an endorsement of this guy; I'm not familiar with him
/just googled him, and saw he was formerly with Nintendo. Hey; I remember reading about him a long time ago in a book about that company!
 
2013-10-03 11:57:16 AM
Also FTA:  Does it concern you that when you reference those moments it was in 2000 and 2001 and it's now 2013?

Sure, I can count.


Ha!
 
2013-10-03 12:13:17 PM

PluckYew: SAFECO is a great place to watch a game.  Especially if you're not pulling for the M's.  Oakland on the other hand, is an utter shiatstain.  Go A's!!!


You are so right about that. Our ushers will enforce any Mariner fan who even so much as yells an insult at a visiting fan, yet they let Boston and New York expats run amok with no concerns whatsover.

We run the friendliest out-of-town stop on your road trip, MLB, stop on by and root for your team to crush the local AAAA squad. Don't mind the few who might be their fans still in attendance. We'll keep them entertained with Kidd Valley and garlic fries and Hydroplane racing on the jumbotron.
 
2013-10-03 12:15:20 PM

Wadded Beef: Isn't attendance nearly irrelevant with corporations buying tons of tickets (that usually go unused)?  How horrible were the TV ratings for Seattle?


Companies can't give away Mariners seats these days - employees are just not interested. We've attended twice this year directly behind home plate in the spiffy seats you see on TV -- and they were half empty. Oh, paying face value or below it. See above. All hands mail - "anyone want to go to the M's game? VP has seats available." -- crickets.
 
2013-10-03 12:18:59 PM

Wadded Beef: Isn't attendance nearly irrelevant with corporations buying tons of tickets (that usually go unused)?  How horrible were the TV ratings for Seattle?


Tv ratings are down, but the local sports channel network (ROOT Sports) is owned by the Mariners. The network has affiliates from Montana and Utah over to the coast and up into Canada, probably in Alaska too.

In short, you don't have to do that well per market to over all deliver pretty strong viewership, given the geography and the fact most viewers will not care if the team's losing, they're retirees and shut-ins and the person that just puts the game on as background noise.

Same formula the Cubs used for decades on radio, the Cardinals too. Except the Cardinals actually had the decency to be good. Mariners seem to be more following the Cubs model, win once a century and then bank off of peoples loyalty to baseball itself, rather than trying to competently assemble a team.
 
2013-10-03 12:20:03 PM
I didn't go to any M's games this year for the first time, and didn't pay attention to their season at all. Didn't miss a thing.

My oh my I don't give a fark about the Ms anymore.
 
2013-10-03 12:25:09 PM

El Brujo: I didn't go to any M's games this year for the first time, and didn't pay attention to their season at all. Didn't miss a thing.

My oh my I don't give a fark about the Ms anymore.


Got you flagged as you hate basketball based on previous comment, now you don't care about baseball, you still on board with the Hawks since they're winning?

Or are you one of those increasingly rare folks that is a true Seattle 2-sports native -- Huskies (football) and Hydros? :)
 
2013-10-03 12:31:09 PM
The ability to evaluate and encourage talent is abysmal. This team has all but ruined Dustin Ackley, Justin Smoak, Jesus Montero & Michael Saunders. Then they trade solid pieces like Mike Carp away and bring in bloated old DH guys like Ibanez and Morales. I'd just like to point out now that those two were two of the 3 BEST HITTERS IN THE LINEUP. Raul Ibanez and Kendrys Morales. What in the everliving f*ck are we doing here?

They just said they'll make a qualifying offer (1 yr $14mil) to Morales this offseason. He hit .277 with 23 homers and 80 rbi at age 30 and he can barely move. Sure, let's flip $14mil at him. Goddammit.
 
2013-10-03 12:33:10 PM

Generation_D: El Brujo: I didn't go to any M's games this year for the first time, and didn't pay attention to their season at all. Didn't miss a thing.

My oh my I don't give a fark about the Ms anymore.

Got you flagged as you hate basketball based on previous comment, now you don't care about baseball, you still on board with the Hawks since they're winning?

Or are you one of those increasingly rare folks that is a true Seattle 2-sports native -- Huskies (football) and Hydros? :)


I'm not, but I do like that rare breed of Huskies / Hydro fan, indeed.

I dislike more sports than I like, apparently.

I love football, win or lose, every year. Am rapidly losing interest in baseball with each passing year. Have always disliked basketball but now more than ever. I hate soccer and like hockey.

/golf is not a sport
 
2013-10-03 12:36:58 PM

Generation_D: El Brujo: I didn't go to any M's games this year for the first time, and didn't pay attention to their season at all. Didn't miss a thing.

My oh my I don't give a fark about the Ms anymore.

Got you flagged as you hate basketball based on previous comment, now you don't care about baseball, you still on board with the Hawks since they're winning?

Or are you one of those increasingly rare folks that is a true Seattle 2-sports native -- Huskies (football) and Hydros? :)


My mariner fandom has been eroded as well over the last 10 years of utter futility.

In order:

Seahawks
Sounders FC
Husky Football
Husky Basketball
Rainiers
Aquasox
Seattle U Basketball - when not playing huskies
Mariners
Storm
 
2013-10-03 12:57:44 PM

Generation_D: PluckYew: SAFECO is a great place to watch a game.  Especially if you're not pulling for the M's.  Oakland on the other hand, is an utter shiatstain.  Go A's!!!

You are so right about that. Our ushers will enforce any Mariner fan who even so much as yells an insult at a visiting fan, yet they let Boston and New York expats run amok with no concerns whatsover.

We run the friendliest out-of-town stop on your road trip, MLB, stop on by and root for your team to crush the local AAAA squad. Don't mind the few who might be their fans still in attendance. We'll keep them entertained with Kidd Valley and garlic fries and Hydroplane racing on the jumbotron.


You forgot dancing ground crew.
 
2013-10-03 01:00:39 PM

Generation_D: PluckYew: SAFECO is a great place to watch a game.  Especially if you're not pulling for the M's.  Oakland on the other hand, is an utter shiatstain.  Go A's!!!

You are so right about that. Our ushers will enforce any Mariner fan who even so much as yells an insult at a visiting fan, yet they let Boston and New York expats run amok with no concerns whatsover.

We run the friendliest out-of-town stop on your road trip, MLB, stop on by and root for your team to crush the local AAAA squad. Don't mind the few who might be their fans still in attendance. We'll keep them entertained with Kidd Valley and garlic fries and Hydroplane racing on the jumbotron.


Man those Blue Jays homegames were embarrassing.
 
2013-10-03 01:33:27 PM

Shame Us: Generation_D: PluckYew: SAFECO is a great place to watch a game.  Especially if you're not pulling for the M's.  Oakland on the other hand, is an utter shiatstain.  Go A's!!!

You are so right about that. Our ushers will enforce any Mariner fan who even so much as yells an insult at a visiting fan, yet they let Boston and New York expats run amok with no concerns whatsover.

We run the friendliest out-of-town stop on your road trip, MLB, stop on by and root for your team to crush the local AAAA squad. Don't mind the few who might be their fans still in attendance. We'll keep them entertained with Kidd Valley and garlic fries and Hydroplane racing on the jumbotron.

Man those Blue Jays homegames were embarrassing.


Dude, Toronto brings the hawt chicks.
 
2013-10-03 01:34:56 PM
Dude, Toronto brings the hawt chicks.
 
2013-10-03 01:53:42 PM

Generation_D: Wadded Beef: Isn't attendance nearly irrelevant with corporations buying tons of tickets (that usually go unused)?  How horrible were the TV ratings for Seattle?

Tv ratings are down, but the local sports channel network (ROOT Sports) is owned by the Mariners. The network has affiliates from Montana and Utah over to the coast and up into Canada, probably in Alaska too.

In short, you don't have to do that well per market to over all deliver pretty strong viewership, given the geography and the fact most viewers will not care if the team's losing, they're retirees and shut-ins and the person that just puts the game on as background noise.

Same formula the Cubs used for decades on radio, the Cardinals too. Except the Cardinals actually had the decency to be good. Mariners seem to be more following the Cubs model, win once a century and then bank off of peoples loyalty to baseball itself, rather than trying to competently assemble a team.


The Cardinals drew like 3.4 million fans at the gate this year. Winning does help.

But (surprisingly) the Cardinals don't have that great of a TV contract. As I understand things it was signed like a decade ago. Until it's time for a new contract, the Cardinals have to draw good AND have a decent playoff run to break even or make money. Very different than other teams.
 
2013-10-03 02:41:46 PM
Well, of course they're going to sell the part of the franchise that doesn't suck. You can't really sell anyone on watching their lineup.
 
2013-10-03 02:55:04 PM

Shame Us: Generation_D: El Brujo: I didn't go to any M's games this year for the first time, and didn't pay attention to their season at all. Didn't miss a thing.

My oh my I don't give a fark about the Ms anymore.

Got you flagged as you hate basketball based on previous comment, now you don't care about baseball, you still on board with the Hawks since they're winning?

Or are you one of those increasingly rare folks that is a true Seattle 2-sports native -- Huskies (football) and Hydros? :)

My mariner fandom has been eroded as well over the last 10 years of utter futility.

In order:

Seahawks
Sounders FC
Husky Football
Husky Basketball
Rainiers
Aquasox
Seattle U Basketball - when not playing huskies
Mariners
Storm


Swap Seattle U and Huskies hoops and thats about my interest as well. The Sounders are probably 1A along with the Hawks. We are STH for the Sounders, just too cheap to pass up, great time had by all.

The Mariners, what can I say. Ownership killed my fandom. I was on board like everyone was 10 years ago. But you can only take so much.
 
2013-10-03 03:23:31 PM

Generation_D: And meanwhile across the street, the NFL and MLS local franchises put on a clinic on how to build a roster and compete at the major league level in this remote marketplace.


And that's the part that amuses me the most. The fact that it's happening right across the street is such a giant middle finger to the Dumb & Dumber that sit atop the throne of the crumbling Mariners empire. The fact that he had the balls to say that there's plenty of awesome things to experience at Safeco Field beyond THE ACTUAL FARKING GAME is the final straw for me.

I love Felix Hernandez and dude should be given diplomatic immunity for his loyalty, but seriously, fark those guys, this team. Sounders FC will win a treble before the Mariners post a .500 season.

/once got Lincoln's direct e-mail
//told him, "Yeah not buying season tickets."
///said he was "equally frustrated"
 
2013-10-03 03:56:18 PM

Generation_D: El Brujo: I didn't go to any M's games this year for the first time, and didn't pay attention to their season at all. Didn't miss a thing.

My oh my I don't give a fark about the Ms anymore.

Got you flagged as you hate basketball based on previous comment, now you don't care about baseball, you still on board with the Hawks since they're winning?


Wait; I have El Brujo flagged as a Bears fan. I must have made a mistake if he's a Seahawks fan. Maybe he just said something complimentary of the Bears and I was quick to flag?
 
2013-10-03 04:37:56 PM

skrame: Generation_D: El Brujo: I didn't go to any M's games this year for the first time, and didn't pay attention to their season at all. Didn't miss a thing.

My oh my I don't give a fark about the Ms anymore.

Got you flagged as you hate basketball based on previous comment, now you don't care about baseball, you still on board with the Hawks since they're winning?

Wait; I have El Brujo flagged as a Bears fan. I must have made a mistake if he's a Seahawks fan. Maybe he just said something complimentary of the Bears and I was quick to flag?


Your challenge has been upheld. I am a Bears fan.
 
2013-10-03 07:47:33 PM

mentallo69: Personally, I am not spending one more dime on the Mariners till I see a winning product. Were turning into the Pittsburgh Pirates of the past. We havent dont jack shiat in almost 20 years, yet they relive 1995 like it was yesterday


100% this. The way the Mariners have sh*t all over the place with reckless abandon has been enough to drive me away. My wife bought us tickets to the very last home game this year - without knowing about my boycott - and now she's aware. I'm done with them until Chuck, Howard, and Jack Z are ousted. Eff them.
 
2013-10-03 08:40:39 PM

RadioAaron: mentallo69: Personally, I am not spending one more dime on the Mariners till I see a winning product. Were turning into the Pittsburgh Pirates of the past. We havent dont jack shiat in almost 20 years, yet they relive 1995 like it was yesterday

100% this. The way the Mariners have sh*t all over the place with reckless abandon has been enough to drive me away. My wife bought us tickets to the very last home game this year - without knowing about my boycott - and now she's aware. I'm done with them until Chuck, Howard, and Jack Z are ousted. Eff them.


Because I am a Seattle fan I plan to attend at least one Safeco game a year, regardless. I have since 1999. Just so when I'm old I can say I never missed a year.

But thats one game, bought sub-market or free giveaway cause nobody wanted the ticket, to a moribund team packed full of major league overpaids, rejects and who gives a sh*ts.

Meanwhile, I pay hundreds a seat to see the Seahawks when I can, and I'm a season ticket holder for the Sounders, every year since 2009. Wonderful return on investment. Fun experience literally every time we've went. Everything the Mariners arent.
 
2013-10-03 11:21:19 PM

mentallo69: haha from the article "I think we've got really an outstanding front office."

funny, the rest of the city of Seattle disagrees there buddy, that is the problem with thinking bud.


I keyed in on that too. That guy is so out of touch he has no idea what their problem is.

I see a tale of two franchises: The Seahawks obviously know what they're doing, the Mariners apparently have no clue. They're going to hire another "yes" man, and the result next year will be the same as it always is.

Didn't they bring in the fences? A whole damn lot of good that did.
 
2013-10-04 03:05:11 AM

Super Chronic: And now it looks like Danny Hultzen may never pitch in the major leagues


But the Mariners always have Ryan Anderson and Brandon Morrow!

...
 
2013-10-04 01:14:14 PM

puffy999: Super Chronic: And now it looks like Danny Hultzen may never pitch in the major leagues

But the Mariners always have Ryan Anderson and Brandon Morrow!

...


Bring back Wladimir Balentin who is killing it in Japan.

/M's pay $30 million just to talk to him
//sign him to a 6 year, $120 million deal because HOMERUNS!
 
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