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(BBC)   Belgium does death panels right: Man allowed to get euthanasia at 44 after three failed operations left him with incurable depression   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 14
    More: Cool, Belgium, death panels, transsexuals, Het Laatste Nieuws  
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4364 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2013 at 8:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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gja [TotalFark]
2013-10-03 08:54:43 AM  
4 votes:
Dignity. When modern medicine fails you, and comes hat-in-hand to tell you they have not one clue as to how to help you the most decent thing they can do is admit they have no answers or hope for any, and then let you make a dignified exit rther than living every waking moment in pain or crushing depression.
2013-10-03 01:18:47 PM  
2 votes:
Someone has a tragic life, the same person has surgeries that go even more tragically wrong and then that person is so depressed they have themselves killed by the doctors that made their lives worse.  I'm not going to say gender reassignment surgery is wrong, I'm not even going to say that euthanasia is wrong.  But for crying out loud, this got the COOL tag?!
farm4.staticflickr.com
2013-10-03 02:31:15 PM  
1 votes:

abhorrent1: There was a documentary about someone going overseas for euthanasia. Not sure if it was Belgium. i thought I remember it being Sweden or something. I can't remember the name but I watched it on netflix. It was very sad and bizarre to watch.


IIRC, it's a place called Dignitas in Switzerland.  Saw a story of a man with ALS who wanted to end his life because he was horribly afraid of the choking that can accompany the disease.  Apparently, with ALS, you can't clear your airway properly.
2013-10-03 12:27:30 PM  
1 votes:
I'd look at it more as a malpractice issue. Did the okay for the first operation consider the underlying depression as not being curable through gender reassignment?
2013-10-03 11:52:43 AM  
1 votes:
reflection before actual point:
It's weird... I know someone who works with people who are suicidal. At one point I was even trained to do it and got some kind of certificate to show as much, though I never got into that field.

If one of these people called them, they'd go through several steps to do everything in their power and use all of their training to tell the person in the article, and everyone else for that matter, that suicide (of any stripe) is always a wrong-headed decision, not to do it, and get them help.

While I agree with the getting them help part - not just psychological, actual material aid they might need - I think it's strange how we can do that sort of thing. Just flat out reject something like euthanasia.

It's strange....


Totally separate point:

Thinking about euthanasia being an option for people under 18? That's.... wow. Belgium, come on guys. Besides being a comedy gold mine even discussing the ins and outs of how that could work, that bit was... disturbing.

And you do hear about some child with some hellish illness or something, or they're effectively brain dead or whatever, but then it'd be the parents/doctors making the decision and then we're back to the "Billy, go to your room or you're euthanized" comedy up above. Or maybe their 16 year old tells their parents they're gay, or want to be an investment banker... I mean, yeah.

That seems like an endless and uncomfortable can of worms.
2013-10-03 11:39:36 AM  
1 votes:
This is a bit disturbing:

"Voluntary euthanasia for those over 18 is relatively uncontroversial in Belgium. Parliament is now considering expanding the law to under 18s as well."
2013-10-03 11:20:58 AM  
1 votes:
This is why my brother and I have an agreement.  If I'm in a nursing home or hospital and I ask him three times to bring me some way to end it all - he'll do it.

And vice versa.  He's my bro - I have his back until the end.

///There is no farking way I will ever live in a nursing home.  Period.  Nothing but respect for the workers, but when the time comes I want to just have it end, not taper off into a series of accumulating problems that leave me a drooling invalid.
2013-10-03 10:55:42 AM  
1 votes:

YoOjo: abhorrent1: There was a documentary about someone going overseas for euthanasia. Not sure if it was Belgium. i thought I remember it being Sweden or something. I can't remember the name but I watched it on netflix. It was very sad and bizarre to watch.

Probably Switzerland, they have quite the monopoly on it in Europe, or did until the Belgians joined in.


Ah you're correct. It's called "The Suicide Tourist" It's very depressing.

This is the end. Don't remember how long the whole thing was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1_sGZz8yo
2013-10-03 10:54:31 AM  
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: Lady Indica

Article is scant but sounds like they were not transgender


*facepalm*

TFH form TFA: Belgian helped to die after three sex change operations

Elsewhere in TFA: He had three operations to change sex between 2009 and 2012.
Lern 2 reed.


"Transgender" is not the surgery. "Transgender" is being one sex in the brain and the opposite sex in the body. A transgender person might get surgery to make the body match the brain. Then they will be "transsexual". Some can't for medical reasons and so will just do their best to live with the body they have. They are transgender but not transsexual. It sounds like Nathan was transsexual but not transgender.

Gender = the identity inside
sex = the physical bits outside

You can change sex. You can't change gender. If you change the sex of someone who doesn't actually have that gender, you will irrevocably fark them up. The infamous case of David Reimer demonstrates that. (clicky)

As Lady J pointed out, it sounds very much like the parents tried to impose gender, which Nancy lived with into adulthood, and as with Bruce/Brenda/David Reimer, the experiment failed miserably. Yeah, she should have gotten therapy instead of surgery.
2013-10-03 09:56:21 AM  
1 votes:

jshine: The brain is basically an electrochemical computer; there's no reason one shouldn't be able to modify it with a sufficiently refined understanding of its function.


images3.wikia.nocookie.net
2013-10-03 09:27:24 AM  
1 votes:

oryx: There's an operation for depression?


It can be treated with deep brain stimulation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_brain_stimulation#Major_depression ), which involves implanting an electrode in a very precise location and an electrical stimulation unit similar to a pacemaker.  ...though from what I understand, it's relatively easy to "over-do" it and make a person so happy they'd sit around with a smile while their home burned down around them.

The brain is basically an electrochemical computer; there's no reason one shouldn't be able to modify it with a sufficiently refined understanding of its function.
2013-10-03 09:09:44 AM  
1 votes:
Article is scant but sounds like they were not transgender but rather had severe psychological problems from their upbringing (and rejected gender). That shiat happens more often than you'd think. Many known instances of a parent raising a child the opposite gender (boys in dresses) until school age. It's not commonplace or anything but it's not exactly rare. =\

If they had been in the US if that were the case, they'd have been denied surgery and steered towards appropriate therapy. One of the main reasons that the requirements involve extensive therapy and living as your gender prior to surgery is that surgery is impossible to undo. It can be mitigated but...yeah. If someone who isn't trans has the surgery and realizes it's a mistake...they not only have their previous psych problems but a whole set of new ones.

I dunno if euthenasia was their best option, but it seems like they had some pretty farking bad medical advice previously.
2013-10-03 09:06:18 AM  
1 votes:

gja: Dignity. When modern medicine fails you, and comes hat-in-hand to tell you they have not one clue as to how to help you the most decent thing they can do is admit they have no answers or hope for any, and then let you make a dignified exit rther than living every waking moment in pain or crushing depression.


And don't exclude the friends and family of somebody with incurable clinical depression (diagnosed). Sometimes there is a point where seeing somebody you love suffering is heartbreaking, and you find the compassion and empathy to understand that they need to go.

/pours out some 40
2013-10-03 08:57:38 AM  
1 votes:
Approves:

www.michaelowencarroll.com
 
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