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(SeattlePI)   Tesla Model S drives through a puddle, nearly kills driver   (seattlepi.com) divider line 231
    More: Scary  
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22521 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2013 at 5:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-03 08:55:48 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: The lib logic of this thread

"I don't like hearing about the thing that happened"
=> "the person reporting it is hurting me"
=> "that person must be a meanie"
=> "everything he says is bad"
=> "he should be mocked, and ignored"
=> "so, in effect, the thing never happened"
=> "now I can return to smug superiority, which is vital to me, since it hides my inner emptiness"


BIG story because one car caught fire.
Let's "never mind" the hundreds of car fires that happen every week in the US because this ONE is electric.
 
2013-10-03 08:56:30 AM  
Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?
 
2013-10-03 08:57:38 AM  

AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?


Because the Tesla looks like sex and the Volt looks like subby's mom's snatch after a gangbang.

The Leaf because it's tiny and can't go very far.
 
2013-10-03 08:59:04 AM  
Wow. What a surprise. The energy source for a car has a lot of energy. What a radical thought.

Luckily ICE vehicles don't have large tanks full of extremely flammable fuel that cause hundreds of thousands of car fires a year in the US alone.

Let's all pretend that the form of stored energy that your political party supports is safe while all others are inordinately dangerous.
 
2013-10-03 08:59:48 AM  

divx88: phone batteries should spontaneously combust when taking vertical videos.


Seconded.

Let's take a vote.
 
2013-10-03 09:03:04 AM  
www.dvdtalk.com
 
2013-10-03 09:03:41 AM  

TheBigJerk: Electric's limitations are torque (not that most of us need a mountain-climbing mega-jeep)


WTF?? One of electric's advantages is torque. Especially from a stand still ... this is one of the reasons that many of the new super cars are going hybrid. To get the bottom end torque from electric and the high end power from fuel.
 
2013-10-03 09:03:53 AM  

AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?


Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
sites.psu.edu media.wbur.org stwot.motortrend.com
 
2013-10-03 09:04:19 AM  

Kuroshin: If something breaches a petrol tank, there's some sign of warning before the thing goes up (smells, visible leaks, etc.)


I seem to recall a rather high-profile example of a striking a piece of metal leading to the puncturing of a petrol fuel tank...

static.guim.co.uk
 
2013-10-03 09:04:23 AM  

SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.


So, does this mean gasoline fires are good?
 
2013-10-03 09:04:38 AM  

libranoelrose: Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?

According to the article they haven't commented yet. You sound rather defensive


So what people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Beer Cap possibly know Tesla's comment already?
 
2013-10-03 09:07:12 AM  

pyrotek85: Night Night Cream Puff: Pick: I'll keep my safe gasoline and diesel powered vehicles, thank you.

Yep. Car fires never happen in gasoline or diesel powered vehicles...
[www.cseinsurance.com image 800x574]

I've always been impressed with how seemingly rare it is, you'd think it'd be more common with how volatile gasoline can be. Most of the time even when someone gets into a bad wreck they don't usually burst into flames (except for the movies).


Seemingly rare maybe. However, as was stated earlier in the thread:

"Smidge20: According to the NFPA, there were 187,500 car fires in the US in 2011. That averages out to another vehicle catching fire every ~170 seconds. Car fires are far from rare."

I do wonder, though, if most of these car fires are catastrophic enough to consume the entire car or if that number also includes minor fires that died in a few seconds?
 
2013-10-03 09:10:09 AM  

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: libranoelrose: Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?

According to the article they haven't commented yet. You sound rather defensive

So what people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Beer Cap possibly know Tesla's comment already?


Aaaaannnd, that's what I get for commenting before finishing the thread...

/Sigh, wanted to snark too much
 
2013-10-03 09:10:39 AM  
I'd have expected a zero emissions fire.
 
2013-10-03 09:14:57 AM  

Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?


I rented a Chevy Sonic this week. Had I wrecked it, Chevy would have known almost immediately.

Without any further research, I'm guessing the car from the article has technology equal to a Chevy Sonic. I'm also guessing Tesla has fewer cars to keep up with than Chevy.
 
2013-10-03 09:15:36 AM  
I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?
 
2013-10-03 09:21:33 AM  
This is why I still drive a horse and buggy.
 
2013-10-03 09:23:34 AM  

CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?


They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?
 
2013-10-03 09:24:54 AM  
unavailable for comment

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-10-03 09:25:30 AM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: gaspode: Its like being back in the 70s or something



Good times...good times..

Cruising with the windows rolled down listening to AM radio.


"Hey baby... Lookin good..."
 
2013-10-03 09:26:37 AM  

AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?


How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.
 
2013-10-03 09:26:46 AM  

CPennypacker: Whats the problem?


Some people automatically take any change in the world as a personal assault and react accordingly.

That's basically it. The world is changing around them in ways they don't understand and it scares them.
 
2013-10-03 09:27:33 AM  

fusillade762: xria: gaspode: SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Guess what? Petroleum fires arent a farking birthday party either and they kill hundreds.

Being killed by the same thing that has killed thousands of people every year for decades isn't scary. Being killed by something that has never killed someone before is scary.

/not sure why, but that is the way it is

Most humans seem unable to do basic risk assessment. More Americans are killed by lightning and bathtub drownings than by terrorism, yet no one is "ZOMG BATHTUB LIGHTNING?!?!?"


Wasn't that a song by Howlin' Wolf?
 
2013-10-03 09:28:03 AM  

TheBigJerk: Tommy Moo: I just had an idea: what if we did for cars what they do for street cars? Just have a tax everyone pays to have the roads themselves electrified. You wouldn't have to do it every ten feet or anything, just once per mile there could be a plate on the ground that, when you drive over it, puts a mile's worth of juice back into your battery. You'd have leads dragging from your undercarriage that would gently scrape the plates. You'd be refueling F-Zero style.

It would only work when we get everyone on board, so there's a legitimate cost/benefit ratio, but if all cars become electric in the future, this is one solution to the range anxiety problem.

Because that's as scientifically impossible as the movie Pacific Rim.

Electric's limitations are torque (not that most of us  need a mountain-climbing mega-jeep), energy density (batteries are still big and heavy), and whatever the term is for, "it charges kinda slow."

Do we currently have the technology to have lightweight mostly-electric vehicles in a lot of places we instead of big ugly trucks?  Probably.  But as many things including this thread prove, it's not about the tech anyway, it's about people believing that driving a giant, gas-guzzling vehicle makes you powerful and/or safe.

I mean, commercials like this worked, what do you say to that?


Considering that Hummer sales collapsed around the time the H3 came out, I'd say that commercials like that didn't work.
 
2013-10-03 09:32:55 AM  

mjones73: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
[sites.psu.edu image 850x566] [media.wbur.org image 850x519] [stwot.motortrend.com image 850x531]


Is it crazy that I don't really see THAT much difference, sexy-ness wise?
 
2013-10-03 09:35:25 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: The lib logic of this thread

"I don't like hearing about the thing that happened"
=> "the person reporting it is hurting me"
=> "that person must be a meanie"
=> "everything he says is bad"
=> "he should be mocked, and ignored"
=> "so, in effect, the thing never happened"
=> "now I can return to smug superiority, which is vital to me, since it hides my inner emptiness"


You what now?
 
2013-10-03 09:37:10 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?

How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.


So people are all worked up over a company that is making a luxury item that only the rich can afford.  Also, one that loses money on every sale.  Hmmm.

Mercedes $57/sh
BMW $79/sh
Tesla $177/sh

And there are multiple companies with electric options now.  I still don't get it.
 
2013-10-03 09:40:08 AM  

robohobo: I wish Jeep would put out an fully powered, full strength Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's our go to car, we've owned a double handful in the past 15 years. So far electrics are really only faux sportscars or limp wristed compacts.


ten cars in 15 years and you want to buy another one?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... You won't something something oops. Heheh.
 
2013-10-03 09:47:10 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: I do wonder, though, if most of these car fires are catastrophic enough to consume the entire car or if that number also includes minor fires that died in a few seconds?


It only includes fires that emergency responders are called out for, so I doubt the burns on the seat are included.

http://www.nfpa.org/research/fire-statistics/the-us-fire-problem/hig hw ay-vehicle-fires

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/Files/Research/Fact%20sheets/vehiclefact sh eet.pdf

=Smidge=
 
2013-10-03 09:48:21 AM  

mjones73: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
[sites.psu.edu image 850x566] [media.wbur.org image 850x519] [stwot.motortrend.com image 850x531]


The Leaf.  I like small hatchbacks.
 
2013-10-03 09:49:57 AM  

Phil Moskowitz: They're basically hurtling hippy deathmissiles constructed to murder as many children as possible before they turn you gay.


I knew it. Part of an illuminati plot!
 
2013-10-03 09:50:21 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?

How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.


Neither was Chevy's SSR, but who wants a truck that you can't put something in the back once in a while.

Tesla = high powered toaster, don't put a fork in it.
 
2013-10-03 09:51:16 AM  

robohobo: I wish Jeep would put out an fully powered, full strength Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's our go to car, we've owned a double handful in the past 15 years. So far electrics are really only faux sportscars or limp wristed compacts.


A series hybrid with a motor and "smart" drive for each wheel, no mechanical connection between the IC engine and the wheels, should be able to climb over obstacles almost as if it were a four-footed animal.  You could stop and start on any slope that you could climb in the first place.  Maximum torque at zero RPM.

I would still want an IC engine running a generator for any off-road electric vehicle, though.  The marvelous ranges they claim for some electric cars are on level ground--once you start climbing hills, the range is going to be a lot shorter.  Even if you can get a lot of that energy back on the way back down, it limits how far you can go in the first place.
 
2013-10-03 09:52:38 AM  

AngryDragon: people are all worked up


Aside from people like you derpin' it up who's getting "worked up"?

AngryDragon: I still don't get it.


Because you choose not to. A large portion of the safety and convenience features that you enjoy today in your "normal" car started their march to standard equipment as an option on a luxury vehicle, particularly from Mercedes and Volvo when it comes to safety features. That's how it works. New technology is expensive so it starts out as something for the wealthy and they pay the initial upfront costs until the technology becomes common enough and easy enough to manufacture that it trickles down to us plebes. Tesla is the first company that appears poised to do that with electrics.
 
2013-10-03 09:54:15 AM  

CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?


Their political associations require that they attack anything that doesn't burn oil and/or pollute.

Any attempt to reduce pollution or oil use is seen as commie and green (aka. evil).
 
2013-10-03 09:55:25 AM  
*comes out of lurk mode*

Musk has repeatedly said that it's his goal to make EVs more affordable for the average person. It's one of the driving goals for Tesla motors. It's why they manufacture batteries for other auto companies, like Toyota. Also this:

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/04/09/elon-musk-3rd-tesla-model-comin g- 2016-or-2017/

I prefer to think of it like home computers. In the beginning, only the rich could afford them. Now it seems like everyone's got one in their pocket. *Shrug* things like this take time.

I do want me some of that Model X though... *sigh* Someday!
 
2013-10-03 09:58:32 AM  

Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?


Because the driver called them to say that his car caught on fire after the collision?
Because the reporter called Tesla Motors for a comment?

Either one works.
 
2013-10-03 09:59:14 AM  

fireclown: mjones73: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
[sites.psu.edu image 850x566] [media.wbur.org image 850x519] [stwot.motortrend.com image 850x531]

Is it crazy that I don't really see THAT much difference, sexy-ness wise?



Yes.
 
2013-10-03 10:01:43 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?

How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.


Still not getting it?  File the entire Tesla cars crusade under "Rich People's Problems."  It's kind of amusing watching the green crowd white knighting for the ultra rich.

I'm kind of green neutral myself, I do what I can personally, I just think individual green cars are kind of a joke in the scheme of things.  12 people stuffed into a leaky van will outgreen 12 Smartcars any day.
 
2013-10-03 10:03:44 AM  

AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?


So what? its not food, its a luxury car
 
2013-10-03 10:03:56 AM  
captionsearch.com
/Another trolltastic headline!
 
2013-10-03 10:04:41 AM  

CasperImproved: I'm no chemist, and I'm not doing research this early in the day (5:30am local), but wouldn't lithium related accidents create a scenario where poisonous gasses are created as apposed to just a cloud of avoidable smoke from the petroleum?


No.

Lithium reacts with water to make hydrogen, which is flammable/explosive but not poisonous. It's also much lighter than air, so if you're lucky enough to avoid ignition and don't have a ceiling trapping it, it dissipates really quickly.

Lithium burns to make lithium oxide dust, which quickly converts to lithium hydroxide dust. I guess you could call a cloud of lithium hydroxide dust "poisonous gas", but it's a bit of a stretch. A water spray would knock it right down, a simple respiratory filter (mask) would block it quite effectively, and it'll settle out of the air on its own in short order.

Petroleum derivatives produce heavier-than-air vapors which can pour across the ground until they reach an ignition source. When they burn, they produce a nasty cocktail of carbon monoxide, carcinogens and soot. We tend to downplay that risk because we've already accepted it in exchange for the benefits of a petroleum-based economy.
 
2013-10-03 10:04:51 AM  

TheBigJerk: Electric's limitations are torque


Torque, especially low-end torque, is electric's strong point.  Did you watch the video of the "White Zombie" (a converted Datsun econobox) at the drag meet?
 
2013-10-03 10:06:47 AM  

Teedee: *comes out of lurk mode*

Musk has repeatedly said that it's his goal to make EVs more affordable for the average person. It's one of the driving goals for Tesla motors. It's why they manufacture batteries for other auto companies, like Toyota. Also this:

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/04/09/elon-musk-3rd-tesla-model-comin g- 2016-or-2017/

I prefer to think of it like home computers. In the beginning, only the rich could afford them. Now it seems like everyone's got one in their pocket. *Shrug* things like this take time.

I do want me some of that Model X though... *sigh* Someday!


Your analogy is a good one. One of my coworkers was an early adopter of laptops here at work (back when they were very rare). He had a couple over the years that were over $10k each. Now they are common and cost a few hundred bucks.

Personally I think Tesla was very smart here. They knew they would not be able to manufacture many vehicles so first they went after super high end sports car and then the luxury market; both are relatively low volume of sales but with a good mark-up.

As their production capacity and operating capital increases they seem to be planning for lower cost models (but still not a high volume economy line) which will require higher volume production.

Seems obvious in hindsight but so many other companies have gone for the super-cheap model first and just never been able to match demand.
 
2013-10-03 10:07:04 AM  

AngryDragon: Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?

How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.

So people are all worked up over a company that is making a luxury item that only the rich can afford.  Also, one that loses money on every sale.  Hmmm.

Mercedes $57/sh
BMW $79/sh
Tesla $177/sh

And there are multiple companies with electric options now.  I still don't get it.


At least use models that would be comparable to the Model S. Just picking any random BMW or Merc is silly. The closest comparable class to Teslas model S would likely be the S Class Merc and M5 BMW.

Base Model S is $70k
Base Mercedes S Class $90k
Base BMW M5 $90k
 
2013-10-03 10:07:43 AM  

skozlaw: AngryDragon: people are all worked up

Aside from people like you derpin' it up who's getting "worked up"?

AngryDragon: I still don't get it.

Because you choose not to. A large portion of the safety and convenience features that you enjoy today in your "normal" car started their march to standard equipment as an option on a luxury vehicle, particularly from Mercedes and Volvo when it comes to safety features. That's how it works. New technology is expensive so it starts out as something for the wealthy and they pay the initial upfront costs until the technology becomes common enough and easy enough to manufacture that it trickles down to us plebes. Tesla is the first company that appears poised to do that with electrics.


My point is though that there is nothing particularly revolutionary about the individual facets of the Tesla.  The Volt, Leaf, and other hybrids already incorporate much if not all of the technology and many of those companies are moving towards second generation products.

I get electric vehicles.  They make perfect sense and I hope to see them everywhere as soon as possible.  I don't see Tesla poised to do that any more than any other company though.  Oh, and as soon as one of the big buys gets a vehicle out that matches it in capabilities, they're gonna eat Tesla's lunch.  The economies of scale in a GM, Toyota, etc. will simply overwhelm them in volume.

My problem isn't with electric vehicles, it's with the lack of attention to fundamentals with this company.  The Volt is already falling in price into the median cost and has the advantages of increasing battery range and a gas extender.  I think Tesla investors are gonna get burned long term.
 
2013-10-03 10:10:14 AM  

TheBigJerk: I mean, commercials like this worked, what do you say to that?


Good god.  Was that a real commercial made by Hummer, or somebody's parody of one?  Because of Poe's Law, I can't tell.
 
2013-10-03 10:14:19 AM  

Ker_Thwap: It's kind of amusing watching the green crowd white knighting for the ultra rich.


Congratz on having one of the dumbest comments in the thread.

The 'white knighting' is for a company that has put out an amazing product. It has nothing to do with 'the rich'. It has to do with the fact that Tesla's current model, while out of most of our price ranges, received the highest rating from Consumer Reports. And their next model is targeted at a price point that many of us will be able to afford and are looking forward to.

If we like Lamborghinis are we also 'white knighting for the rich' or is that ok because it burns a petroleum product?
 
2013-10-03 10:16:10 AM  

huntercr: For example, EMT's come to treat someone who appears to have been exposed to some spray from the batteries. Do you clean it off with water?


Of course you do. It's a water-soluble alkali.

It's worth remembering that Tesla uses lithium-ion batteries, which don't contain lithium metal. The batteries still store a lot of energy, and if they let go of that energy all at once you get a perfectly adequate fire. But it's not like throwing a chunk of cesium into a bathtub.

More info about lithium-ion battery safety
 
2013-10-03 10:18:01 AM  

AngryDragon: My problem isn't with electric vehicles, it's with the lack of attention to fundamentals with this company. The Volt is already falling in price into the median cost and has the advantages of increasing battery range and a gas extender. I think Tesla investors are gonna get burned long term.


Bring it on. Competition is all good for us consumers.

You may be right that Tesla may not be able to go toe-to-toe against the big guys for long. But maybe they will. In the end their presence is a good thing because they drive competition.
 
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