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(SeattlePI)   Tesla Model S drives through a puddle, nearly kills driver   (seattlepi.com) divider line 231
    More: Scary  
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22522 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Oct 2013 at 5:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



231 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-02 11:48:06 PM  
If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...

... still not in any way accurate.
 
2013-10-02 11:49:46 PM  
yeah, you have me convinced, subby.
 
2013-10-02 11:57:29 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...

... still not in any way accurate.


Well, in that case, it would be accurate to say the large metallic object wreck 'im.
 
2013-10-03 12:01:30 AM  
...wreckED 'im.

/I'm not sure if I've had too much booze or not enough
//either way, I haven't got the correct amount of vodak in my system
 
2013-10-03 12:35:22 AM  
So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.
 
2013-10-03 12:54:29 AM  

Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...


Yeah, but "Car hits large object, catches fire" isn't really a newsworthy headline.
 
2013-10-03 01:13:54 AM  
 
2013-10-03 05:08:01 AM  
Storing that much energy in that little space...doesn't matter what the fuel / power source is...why did this even make the news?
 
2013-10-03 05:08:32 AM  

nmrsnr: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...

Yeah, but "Car hits large object, catches fire" isn't really a newsworthy headline.


More like a Michael Bay movie.
 
2013-10-03 05:13:59 AM  
Latest attempt by the entrenched industry to try to kill electric cars eh? Its like being back in the 70s or something.. ludicrous scare stories about rivals. Hell it is like being back in Edison's day. Wankers.
 
2013-10-03 05:14:46 AM  

SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.


Guess what? Petroleum fires arent a farking birthday party either and they kill hundreds.
 
2013-10-03 05:16:34 AM  

gaspode: Latest attempt by the entrenched industry to try to kill electric cars eh? Its like being back in the 70s or something.. ludicrous scare stories about rivals. Hell it is like being back in Edison's day. Wankers.


Still waiting for the CEO of one of the big car companies to use a Tesla battery to electrocute an elephant.
 
2013-10-03 05:17:37 AM  

gaspode: SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Guess what? Petroleum fires arent a farking birthday party either and they kill hundreds.


Damn. And here I was planning on having a petroleum fire for my birthday party. Thanks for ruining everything.
 
2013-10-03 05:18:44 AM  

gaspode: SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Guess what? Petroleum fires arent a farking birthday party either and they kill hundreds.


Being killed by the same thing that has killed thousands of people every year for decades isn't scary. Being killed by something that has never killed someone before is scary.

/not sure why, but that is the way it is
 
2013-10-03 05:19:01 AM  

Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...

... still not in any way accurate.


and also

no one was injured
 
2013-10-03 05:19:01 AM  
I wish Jeep would put out an fully powered, full strength Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's our go to car, we've owned a double handful in the past 15 years. So far electrics are really only faux sportscars or limp wristed compacts.
 
2013-10-03 05:22:04 AM  
Stock's taking a hit. Time to buy, if you ask me.
 
2013-10-03 05:23:20 AM  

King Something: ...wreckED 'im.

/I'm not sure if I've had too much booze or not enough
//either way, I haven't got the correct amount of vodak in my system


I wonder if it damn near did anything else to 'im.
 
2013-10-03 05:24:32 AM  
 
2013-10-03 05:28:53 AM  

LordJiro: gaspode: Latest attempt by the entrenched industry to try to kill electric cars eh? Its like being back in the 70s or something.. ludicrous scare stories about rivals. Hell it is like being back in Edison's day. Wankers.

Still waiting for the CEO of one of the big car companies to use a Tesla battery to electrocute an elephant.


If it's this kind of elephant, I think most Americans by now would enjoy seeing it.
www.dirtandseeds.com
 
2013-10-03 05:34:22 AM  
in a world where electric cars are becoming increasingly common ...

zombie reagan: mr. obama, how many EV motorists have to perish in puddles before you stop this insanity?

b. hussein ponders

lil girl: mommy, why did the dinosaurs die?

mom: they died for us, sweetie. they died to provide us fuel. jesus himself rode them directly into a meteor. for our sins.

LG: why doesn't mr. hussein want us to use our god-given fuel?

M: well, he's a muslim. they want all of the fuel. also he is kenyan, they don't use gasoline. it's a cultural thing.

LG: what will we do when there is no more dinosaur fuel?

M: there's no way to know for sure. barack may redistribute it to his muslim saudi arabian syrian pakistan friends.

LG: and then?

M: i assume we will all be forced to drive electric vehicles. in constant fear of puddles. constantly uncertain about the future.

LG: i don't wanna die in an electric car in a puddle.

M: For now, the government is shut down. With any hope we'll wake up to the end of the obama's reign of terror. Imagine it was all a dream.

LG: sigh, gnite mom

M: sweet dreams
 
2013-10-03 05:35:01 AM  
They're basically hurtling hippy deathmissiles constructed to murder as many children as possible before they turn you gay.
 
2013-10-03 05:37:44 AM  

gaspode: SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Guess what? Petroleum fires arent a farking birthday party either and they kill hundreds.


I'm no chemist, and I'm not doing research this early in the day (5:30am local), but wouldn't lithium related accidents create a scenario where poisonous gasses are created as apposed to just a cloud of avoidable smoke from the petroleum?
 
2013-10-03 05:39:25 AM  
www.filmwad.com

Wait a minute, wait a minute. What have we here, gentlemen? General Motors have themselves a journalist.
 
2013-10-03 05:49:59 AM  

gaspode: Its like being back in the 70s or something


s17.postimg.org

Good times...good times..

Cruising with the windows rolled down listening to AM radio.
 
2013-10-03 05:59:47 AM  
Ah yes. I remember the hit pieces about how priuses would kill firefighters by electricution.
 
2013-10-03 06:01:41 AM  

thamike: [www.filmwad.com image 450x266]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. What have we here, gentlemen? General Motors have themselves a journalist.


I saved that photo because the text at the bottom makes it seem as if Fox bought themselves a black person. That amuses me for any number of reasons.
 
2013-10-03 06:03:47 AM  

xria: gaspode: SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Guess what? Petroleum fires arent a farking birthday party either and they kill hundreds.

Being killed by the same thing that has killed thousands of people every year for decades isn't scary. Being killed by something that has never killed someone before is scary.

/not sure why, but that is the way it is


Most humans seem unable to do basic risk assessment. More Americans are killed by lightning and bathtub drownings than by terrorism, yet no one is "ZOMG BATHTUB LIGHTNING?!?!?"
 
2013-10-03 06:04:28 AM  
My favorite actual headline on this "story" was from the WSJ:

"Tesla's Shares on Fire, Now the Car, Too."
 
2013-10-03 06:10:37 AM  

Mr. Ekshun: thamike: [www.filmwad.com image 450x266]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. What have we here, gentlemen? General Motors have themselves a journalist.

I saved that photo because the text at the bottom makes it seem as if Fox bought themselves a black person. That amuses me for any number of reasons.


You have fun with that, sparky.
 
2013-10-03 06:11:35 AM  

Phil Moskowitz: They're basically hurtling hippy deathmissiles constructed to murder as many children as possible before they turn you gay.


Is that supposed to be a criticism? I want one of these contraptions.
 
2013-10-03 06:11:36 AM  

fusillade762: xria: gaspode: SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Guess what? Petroleum fires arent a farking birthday party either and they kill hundreds.

Being killed by the same thing that has killed thousands of people every year for decades isn't scary. Being killed by something that has never killed someone before is scary.

/not sure why, but that is the way it is

Most humans seem unable to do basic risk assessment. More Americans are killed by lightning and bathtub drownings than by terrorism, yet no one is "ZOMG BATHTUB LIGHTNING?!?!?"


During the DC sniper incident, the #2 cause of worry among interviewed residents was being shot by the sniper.  People have no sense of proportion.  Everybody laughs at Dustin Hoffman as Rainman thinking candy bars and cars cost $100 each, but they do similar useless math in their own heads every day.
 
2013-10-03 06:11:50 AM  

CasperImproved: I'm no chemist, and I'm not doing research this early in the day (5:30am local), but wouldn't lithium related accidents create a scenario where poisonous gasses are created as apposed to just a cloud of avoidable smoke from the petroleum?


The "cloud of avoidable smoke" caused by burning gasoline is incidentally also made up of poisonous gasses, so I'm not sure what sort of distinction you're trying to make.

I suppose you're wondering if the poisonous gasses are invisible; well, when lithium's on fire it's scary enough that you'll want to get the hell away from it.  NORMAL gasoline engine exhaust, however, is invisible AND poisonous.
 
2013-10-03 06:13:04 AM  

thamike: Mr. Ekshun: thamike: [www.filmwad.com image 450x266]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. What have we here, gentlemen? General Motors have themselves a journalist.

I saved that photo because the text at the bottom makes it seem as if Fox bought themselves a black person. That amuses me for any number of reasons.

You have fun with that, sparky.


Sigh. Okay, and fark you too.
 
2013-10-03 06:16:49 AM  
You need only look at all the garbage articles on climate change and electric cars on Farkkk.com to know what's in Drew's portfolio.
Lotsa BP & EXXON.
Eat it up, sheeple.
 
2013-10-03 06:18:20 AM  
I love how water made it worse..

Crews found that water seemed to intensify the fire, so they began using a dry chemical extinguisher.
 
2013-10-03 06:25:51 AM  
I saw a vehicle fire once. It was a pickup truck. I wonder if all pickup trucks are unsafe.
 
2013-10-03 06:28:40 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: I saw a vehicle fire once. It was a pickup truck. I wonder if all pickup trucks are unsafe.


yes. Motorcycles are by far the safest.
 
2013-10-03 06:31:21 AM  

diaphoresis: Because People in power are Stupid: I saw a vehicle fire once. It was a pickup truck. I wonder if all pickup trucks are unsafe.

yes. Motorcycles are by far the safest.


So the elderly should all ride Harleys.
 
2013-10-03 06:32:29 AM  
You know who else we should be raising our arms up against for potential car fires. Jaguar! They nearly killed Dick Van Dyke!

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50153317n

Cars of all sorts can catch fire. Your bias is quite apparent subby.
 
2013-10-03 06:35:29 AM  

robohobo: I wish Jeep would put out an fully powered, full strength Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's our go to car, we've owned a double handful in the past 15 years. So far electrics are really only faux sportscars or limp wristed compacts.


so like 10 in 15 years? They don't last very long then? Sounds like a good buy.
 
2013-10-03 06:38:03 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: diaphoresis: Because People in power are Stupid: I saw a vehicle fire once. It was a pickup truck. I wonder if all pickup trucks are unsafe.

yes. Motorcycles are by far the safest.

So the elderly should all ride Harleys.


Nah.. just take the limiter off their mobility scooter. It would be entertaining and you could earn bonus points for knocking them into ditches.
 
2013-10-03 06:44:26 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: robohobo: faux sportscars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rVTIpS5zb4&feature=player_detailpage #t =36


Motors sports are usually THE definitive proving ground for new tech. There's always some backyard mechanic willing to shoehorn in something that's not supposed to work. If it can stand up to the abusiveness of drag racing, it can stand up to the abusiveness of the average driver.
 
2013-10-03 06:52:42 AM  
The lib logic of this thread

"I don't like hearing about the thing that happened"
=> "the person reporting it is hurting me"
=> "that person must be a meanie"
=> "everything he says is bad"
=> "he should be mocked, and ignored"
=> "so, in effect, the thing never happened"
=> "now I can return to smug superiority, which is vital to me, since it hides my inner emptiness"
 
2013-10-03 06:54:59 AM  
i966.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-03 06:56:05 AM  
I just think it is proof that Tesla is going after the Lamborghini market segment.

1.bp.blogspot.com


beijingcream.com

Pics hot it more ways than one.
 
2013-10-03 06:59:09 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: The lib logic of this thread

"I don't like hearing about the thing that happened"
=> "the person reporting it is hurting me"
=> "that person must be a meanie"
=> "everything he says is bad"
=> "he should be mocked, and ignored"
=> "so, in effect, the thing never happened"
=> "now I can return to smug superiority, which is vital to me, since it hides my inner emptiness"

Your callous disregard of indigenous Americans is demonstrated by your flagrant over use of arrows. This gives me sad.

 
2013-10-03 07:00:16 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: The lib logic of this thread

=> Outright lying headlines are annoying
=> Energy sources and hard impacts not getting along isn't news..
=> Firefighters do, in fact, have ways of dealing with electrical fires.


FTFY
 
2013-10-03 07:02:01 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: diaphoresis: Because People in power are Stupid: I saw a vehicle fire once. It was a pickup truck. I wonder if all pickup trucks are unsafe.

yes. Motorcycles are by far the safest.

So the elderly should all ride Harleys.


Aren't there a bunch of old hippy types with beards, balding, and with either half helmets or bandannas on their head out there on Harleys now?
 
2013-10-03 07:03:06 AM  
Good day for retarded subbys
 
2013-10-03 07:03:59 AM  
The driver wasn't sure what he hit. It may be that the battery cracked and that was the metallic sound he interpreted as hitting something. Smaller lithium batteries have been known to spontaneously ignite or explode. It will be interesting to see exactly what happened when they have had the time to complete the investigation.
 
2013-10-03 07:06:48 AM  

CasperImproved: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: diaphoresis: Because People in power are Stupid: I saw a vehicle fire once. It was a pickup truck. I wonder if all pickup trucks are unsafe.

yes. Motorcycles are by far the safest.

So the elderly should all ride Harleys.

Aren't there a bunch of old hippy types with beards, balding, and with either half helmets or bandannas on their head out there on Harleys now?


We are riding Kawasakis or Suzukis. We can't afford Harleys.
 
2013-10-03 07:07:35 AM  

CasperImproved: Aren't there a bunch of old hippy types with beards, balding, and with either half helmets or bandannas on their head out there on Harleys now?


Well nt right now - they're walking laps at the mall right now.
 
2013-10-03 07:08:13 AM  
Metal debris punctures the body, impacts a battery, and causes a fire. What are we going to do without the federal investigators! Some mysteries will just never be solved.
 
2013-10-03 07:10:25 AM  

gaspode: Latest attempt by the entrenched industry to try to kill electric cars eh? Its like being back in the 70s or something.. ludicrous scare stories about rivals. Hell it is like being back in Edison's day. Wankers.


Now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised if this car was purchased by an Exxon exec. How convenient!
 
2013-10-03 07:13:34 AM  
I just had an idea: what if we did for cars what they do for street cars? Just have a tax everyone pays to have the roads themselves electrified. You wouldn't have to do it every ten feet or anything, just once per mile there could be a plate on the ground that, when you drive over it, puts a mile's worth of juice back into your battery. You'd have leads dragging from your undercarriage that would gently scrape the plates. You'd be refueling F-Zero style.

It would only work when we get everyone on board, so there's a legitimate cost/benefit ratio, but if all cars become electric in the future, this is one solution to the range anxiety problem.
 
2013-10-03 07:15:30 AM  
Another example of why we need to forget electric cars and stick with internal combustion engines.  Cars that run on gas never catch on fire.
 
2013-10-03 07:16:39 AM  
Sounds like they need to install an automatic fire extinquisher system under the hood, similar to what jet airliner engines use.
 
2013-10-03 07:16:50 AM  

Snarfle: If it can stand up to the abusiveness of drag racing, it can stand up to the abusiveness of the average driver.


Um, no.
 
2013-10-03 07:18:22 AM  
Gawd, don't you people remember the Concorde?
 
2013-10-03 07:19:48 AM  

Boomstickz: Storing that much energy in that little space...doesn't matter what the fuel / power source is...why did this even make the news?


Because it's Tesla and their stock went down $600mil because of it. (because people have knee jerk reactions to everything and apparently thought Tesla cars were invincible)
 
2013-10-03 07:22:44 AM  
They're supposedly quite safe, but come on, they're not indestructible.

/thoroughly expect the other major car companies to begin referring to the Tesla as the Titanic of cars. See! See!
 
2013-10-03 07:26:34 AM  

Tommy Moo: I just had an idea: what if we did for cars what they do for street cars? Just have a tax everyone pays to have the roads themselves electrified. You wouldn't have to do it every ten feet or anything, just once per mile there could be a plate on the ground that, when you drive over it, puts a mile's worth of juice back into your battery. You'd have leads dragging from your undercarriage that would gently scrape the plates. You'd be refueling F-Zero style.

It would only work when we get everyone on board, so there's a legitimate cost/benefit ratio, but if all cars become electric in the future, this is one solution to the range anxiety problem.

 
2013-10-03 07:28:17 AM  

treebeardmcgee: Another example of why we need to forget electric cars and stick with internal combustion engines.  Cars that run on gas never catch on fire.


This guy gets it. This is the message.
Also climate change and ocean acidification are mean old enviro-hippie liberal fibs!
Vroooom! I'm a man!
i18.photobucket.com
Almost.
 
2013-10-03 07:29:29 AM  
It's pure capacitance gel!
 
2013-10-03 07:31:15 AM  

symptomoftheuniverse: Good day for retarded subbys


Is there any day that isn't around here?
 
2013-10-03 07:35:39 AM  
Bumper cars. The future for autos.
media-cdn.tripadvisor.com
 
2013-10-03 07:39:46 AM  

Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.


You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.
 
2013-10-03 07:42:02 AM  

Tommy Moo: I just had an idea: what if we did for cars what they do for street cars? Just have a tax everyone pays to have the roads themselves electrified. You wouldn't have to do it every ten feet or anything, just once per mile there could be a plate on the ground that, when you drive over it, puts a mile's worth of juice back into your battery. You'd have leads dragging from your undercarriage that would gently scrape the plates. You'd be refueling F-Zero style.

It would only work when we get everyone on board, so there's a legitimate cost/benefit ratio, but if all cars become electric in the future, this is one solution to the range anxiety problem.


Because that's as scientifically impossible as the movie Pacific Rim.

Electric's limitations are torque (not that most of us  need a mountain-climbing mega-jeep), energy density (batteries are still big and heavy), and whatever the term is for, "it charges kinda slow."

Do we currently have the technology to have lightweight mostly-electric vehicles in a lot of places we instead of big ugly trucks?  Probably.  But as many things including this thread prove, it's not about the tech anyway, it's about people believing that driving a giant, gas-guzzling vehicle makes you powerful and/or safe.

I mean, commercials like this worked, what do you say to that?
 
2013-10-03 07:42:18 AM  
I'll keep my safe gasoline and diesel powered vehicles, thank you.
 
2013-10-03 07:44:11 AM  

badhatharry: Metal debris punctures the body, impacts a battery, and causes a fire. What are we going to do without the federal investigators! Some mysteries will just never be solved.


If there's one thing I've learned in life, it's that people always tell the truth. Always.
 
2013-10-03 07:45:27 AM  
Lithium... how does it work?
 
2013-10-03 07:48:41 AM  

Pick: I'll keep my safe gasoline and diesel powered vehicles, thank you.



www.fredberinger.com
 
2013-10-03 07:51:06 AM  

TheBigJerk: I mean, commercials like this worked, what do you say to that?


.... what the fark was that?  That commercial.... wtf.
 
2013-10-03 07:52:35 AM  

Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?


According to the article they haven't commented yet. You sound rather defensive
 
2013-10-03 07:57:28 AM  
So, subby... I'm curious, what exactly do you get out of slurping the greasy black slick off oil executive cocks? Is it like a sadomasochist thing? Were you sexually abused as a child? Or are you just a stupid filthy whore?
 
2013-10-03 08:00:24 AM  

here to help: So, subby... I'm curious, what exactly do you get out of slurping the greasy black slick off oil executive cocks? Is it like a sadomasochist thing? Were you sexually abused as a child? Or are you just a stupid filthy whore?


You'll all have to forgive subby's mom. She hasn't had her morning coffee yet.
 
2013-10-03 08:00:33 AM  

Pick: I'll keep my safe gasoline and diesel powered vehicles, thank you.


Yep. Car fires never happen in gasoline or diesel powered vehicles...
www.cseinsurance.com
 
2013-10-03 08:07:13 AM  

Beer cap: I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.


Where did the officer look? This article says the driver claims he hit something on the freeway, then pulled off of the freeway. We have no way of knowing how far he drove between object strike and where he stopped.

According to the NFPA, there were 187,500 car fires in the US in 2011. That averages out to another vehicle catching fire every ~170 seconds. Car fires are far from rare.

Meanwhile, in Japan... (Skip to 26m45s for where they drive it through 27 inches [700mm] of standing water)
=Smidge=
 
2013-10-03 08:07:42 AM  

ph0rk: CasperImproved: Aren't there a bunch of old hippy types with beards, balding, and with either half helmets or bandannas on their head out there on Harleys now?

Well nt right now - they're walking laps at the mall right now.


I'm down with that... just as long as you don't do the same with large sedans (or simlilar sized vehicles) :)
 
2013-10-03 08:08:07 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: at least being near a lithium fire would even out your emotions... amirite? :P


I dunno, man.  I even out my emotions with CH3CH2OH.

Even if it did, the lithium fire made subby hysterical despite being nowhere near the fumes, so at best it's a wash.
 
2013-10-03 08:10:09 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: fusillade762: xria: gaspode: SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Guess what? Petroleum fires arent a farking birthday party either and they kill hundreds.

Being killed by the same thing that has killed thousands of people every year for decades isn't scary. Being killed by something that has never killed someone before is scary.

/not sure why, but that is the way it is

Most humans seem unable to do basic risk assessment. More Americans are killed by lightning and bathtub drownings than by terrorism, yet no one is "ZOMG BATHTUB LIGHTNING?!?!?"

During the DC sniper incident, the #2 cause of worry among interviewed residents was being shot by the sniper.  People have no sense of proportion.  Everybody laughs at Dustin Hoffman as Rainman thinking candy bars and cars cost $100 each, but they do similar useless math in their own heads every day.


Someone once told me that if you ask someone if water can run uphill, they'll say "No way, that's stupid". But if you give them a complicated task to consider, they'll usually wind up having one of the steps requiring water to run uphill. Of course, she said it better and with Texas charm.
 
2013-10-03 08:18:49 AM  

diaphoresis: I love how water made it worse..

Crews found that water seemed to intensify the fire, so they began using a dry chemical extinguisher.


Yeah Firefighters and Emergency Services/Safety people are going to have to get some extra training on this.
 
2013-10-03 08:20:26 AM  

Beer cap: libranoelrose: Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?

According to the article they haven't commented yet. You sound rather defensive

You might want to actually read the article, specifically the second paragraph.


Yeah, my bad, looks like it was the driver who didn't comment. More coffe and all that
 
2013-10-03 08:24:14 AM  
The only reaction to that story that makes sense is the analyst downgrade of their stock. I don't care how good their cars are; if the stock price jumps 400 percent, it's time to sell.
 
2013-10-03 08:25:09 AM  

TheBigJerk: Electric's limitations are torque


Uh, no... no that's entirely the opposite of true.


Beer cap: I'm not saying that the officer couldn't have missed something. Another possibility could be that what the driver thought was an best in the road being hit was also the battery exploding.


Possible, but unprecedented. The article also states that the fire crew had to punch holes in the battery pack and cut an access panel into it - things that probably would not have been necessary if the battery spontaneously exploded.
=Smidge=

 
2013-10-03 08:25:47 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: So the elderly should all ride Harleys.


That;s pretty much how the demo sorts out.

/sportsbiker
/old one.
 
2013-10-03 08:27:13 AM  
Huh, I figured that Tesla would have had a robust skid plate under the battery.

Maybe that's just one of those things that slips the mind when designing vehicles meant for smooth paved roads.  It's like the armored HMMWV's initial lack of undercarriage armor.  Gunfire and rockets were expected, but not landmines.

Vehicle companies need more paranoid engineers, who will think of these fringe cases and design for them from the start.  "Yes yes, the battery is now safe from front, rear, and side impacts...but what about impacts from above or below?!  WHAT THEN?!?!  MOAR PROTECTIVE PLATING!"

Reactive metals give me the creeps.  Yes, I carry some around with me all the time, but it still gives me the heebie jeebies when I think about it.  Petrol requires an ignition source to become a fireball - lithium just requires moisture.  If something breaches a petrol tank, there's some sign of warning before the thing goes up (smells, visible leaks, etc.), although I am not saying that those warning signs are always easy to see, or even *can* be seen before things catch fire, but they're *there*.  It soothes the mind somewhat.  Fuel rail leaked onto the engine and caused a fire?  Well, that leak was probably there for days, so if you had popped the hood you *might* have seen it and fixed it before something happened.  No guarantees, but the opportunity was there.  Casing failed on a LiIon battery, allowing moisture into the metal coil?  No warning, just fire.

Still thinking of buying an electric motorcycle, once the price becomes sane.  They're not even close to being price-competitive right now.  $40k for an open-class ride is lunacy.  Could buy two S1000RRs for that price.  Even the Brammo Empulse is $5k more than it's worth.
 
2013-10-03 08:27:56 AM  
I want Tesla to be successful.  Dreaming about a day when I can afford the Roadster.  I would love to drive one.
In the distant future since having recharging stations in Ga. will take about 30 years or more.
 
2013-10-03 08:29:53 AM  

King Something: ...wreckED 'im.

/I'm not sure if I've had too much booze or not enough
//either way, I haven't got the correct amount of vodak in my system


I'm guessing you moving toward 'too much'. You can type mostly coherent sentences but seem to be drinking 'vodak' instead of vodka.
 
2013-10-03 08:34:58 AM  

mbillips: The only reaction to that story that makes sense is the analyst downgrade of their stock. I don't care how good their cars are; if the stock price jumps 400 percent, it's time to sell.


oh shiat. another dude who isnt buying the musk snake oil.

*time to confront him about global warming, sending money to al qaeda for oil. totally cant discuss the subsidized luxury toy market!*
 
2013-10-03 08:36:19 AM  
That's it. I'm switching back to a car powered by a large tank of fluid designed specifically for the purpose of enabling a series of powerful explosions that propel me down the highway. No way am I risking a catastrophe for you treehuggers!
 
2013-10-03 08:42:12 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: You know who else we should be raising our arms up against for potential car fires. Jaguar! They nearly killed Dick Van Dyke!

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50153317n

Cars of all sorts can catch fire. Your bias is quite apparent subby.


Exactly.  The problem isn't the vehicle, it's the stored energy. Whether it's liquid, gas, radioactive, or electro-chemical, whenever you unintentionally release ALL the energy, you get fire/explosion/radiation.  Can't wait for dark-energy or matter/anti-matter power. Then when you hit that chunk of metal in the road you'll accidentally open a wormhole or something.
 
2013-10-03 08:43:34 AM  

here to help: So, subby... I'm curious, what exactly do you get out of slurping the greasy black slick off oil executive cocks? Is it like a sadomasochist thing? Were you sexually abused as a child? Or are you just a stupid filthy whore?


I love you.
 
2013-10-03 08:48:21 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: Pick: I'll keep my safe gasoline and diesel powered vehicles, thank you.

Yep. Car fires never happen in gasoline or diesel powered vehicles...
[www.cseinsurance.com image 800x574]


I've always been impressed with how seemingly rare it is, you'd think it'd be more common with how volatile gasoline can be. Most of the time even when someone gets into a bad wreck they don't usually burst into flames (except for the movies).
 
2013-10-03 08:51:10 AM  

pyrotek85: Night Night Cream Puff: Pick: I'll keep my safe gasoline and diesel powered vehicles, thank you.

Yep. Car fires never happen in gasoline or diesel powered vehicles...
[www.cseinsurance.com image 800x574]

I've always been impressed with how seemingly rare it is, you'd think it'd be more common with how volatile gasoline can be. Most of the time even when someone gets into a bad wreck they don't usually burst into flames (except for the movies).


Or when the government wants to cover its tracks.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/28/new-stunning-surveillance -v ideo-shows-fiery-michael-hastings-car-crash/
 
2013-10-03 08:52:40 AM  
phone batteries should spontaneously combust when taking vertical videos.
 
2013-10-03 08:54:06 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: pyrotek85: Night Night Cream Puff: Pick: I'll keep my safe gasoline and diesel powered vehicles, thank you.

Yep. Car fires never happen in gasoline or diesel powered vehicles...
[www.cseinsurance.com image 800x574]

I've always been impressed with how seemingly rare it is, you'd think it'd be more common with how volatile gasoline can be. Most of the time even when someone gets into a bad wreck they don't usually burst into flames (except for the movies).

Or when the government wants to cover its tracks.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/28/new-stunning-surveillance -v ideo-shows-fiery-michael-hastings-car-crash/


theblaze.com

lolnope

/ black helicopter bullshiat is more an infowars.com thing anyway
 
2013-10-03 08:54:49 AM  

Boomstickz: Storing that much energy in that little space...doesn't matter what the fuel / power source is...why did this even make the news?


I  dunno.. I think its important to make sure people are aware of this. Despite Hollywood convincing people that gasoline cars explode when the wreck, it's far more likely for  "really bad things"  to happen for Lithium  based electric cars. You don't hear much about it yet because the vast majority of electric cars out there are NiMH and not Group 1 metals, and so far the car companies have done a great job with firewalls to protect the cabin.

As I said in another post, most important will be fire and safety training.
For example, EMT's come to treat someone who appears to have been exposed to some spray from the batteries. Do you clean it off with water? How about alcohol?
 
2013-10-03 08:54:57 AM  

Beer cap: So the fire department had a hell of a time getting into the battery, but a piece of road debris punctured it? I'm going to file this one under "who the fark knows" for now.


Wouldn't need to puncture the enclosure itself, necessarily. Striking a high voltage component anywhere would be more than sufficient to cause a fire. For example, there a DC-DC converter that would have HV cables to it... which are directly behind the front right wheel. Seems plausible to me that something might be hit by the front right wheel and brought up into the wheel well and forced through those wires causing a short.

You're correct that there's no knowing right now, but road debris is very plausible as a cause... more so than a spontaneous battery fault which would have resulted in a fire *under* the car and not in the front compartment...
=Smidge=
 
2013-10-03 08:55:48 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: The lib logic of this thread

"I don't like hearing about the thing that happened"
=> "the person reporting it is hurting me"
=> "that person must be a meanie"
=> "everything he says is bad"
=> "he should be mocked, and ignored"
=> "so, in effect, the thing never happened"
=> "now I can return to smug superiority, which is vital to me, since it hides my inner emptiness"


BIG story because one car caught fire.
Let's "never mind" the hundreds of car fires that happen every week in the US because this ONE is electric.
 
2013-10-03 08:56:30 AM  
Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?
 
2013-10-03 08:57:38 AM  

AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?


Because the Tesla looks like sex and the Volt looks like subby's mom's snatch after a gangbang.

The Leaf because it's tiny and can't go very far.
 
2013-10-03 08:59:04 AM  
Wow. What a surprise. The energy source for a car has a lot of energy. What a radical thought.

Luckily ICE vehicles don't have large tanks full of extremely flammable fuel that cause hundreds of thousands of car fires a year in the US alone.

Let's all pretend that the form of stored energy that your political party supports is safe while all others are inordinately dangerous.
 
2013-10-03 08:59:48 AM  

divx88: phone batteries should spontaneously combust when taking vertical videos.


Seconded.

Let's take a vote.
 
2013-10-03 09:03:04 AM  
www.dvdtalk.com
 
2013-10-03 09:03:41 AM  

TheBigJerk: Electric's limitations are torque (not that most of us need a mountain-climbing mega-jeep)


WTF?? One of electric's advantages is torque. Especially from a stand still ... this is one of the reasons that many of the new super cars are going hybrid. To get the bottom end torque from electric and the high end power from fuel.
 
2013-10-03 09:03:53 AM  

AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?


Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
sites.psu.edu media.wbur.org stwot.motortrend.com
 
2013-10-03 09:04:19 AM  

Kuroshin: If something breaches a petrol tank, there's some sign of warning before the thing goes up (smells, visible leaks, etc.)


I seem to recall a rather high-profile example of a striking a piece of metal leading to the puncturing of a petrol fuel tank...

static.guim.co.uk
 
2013-10-03 09:04:23 AM  

SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.


So, does this mean gasoline fires are good?
 
2013-10-03 09:04:38 AM  

libranoelrose: Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?

According to the article they haven't commented yet. You sound rather defensive


So what people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Beer Cap possibly know Tesla's comment already?
 
2013-10-03 09:07:12 AM  

pyrotek85: Night Night Cream Puff: Pick: I'll keep my safe gasoline and diesel powered vehicles, thank you.

Yep. Car fires never happen in gasoline or diesel powered vehicles...
[www.cseinsurance.com image 800x574]

I've always been impressed with how seemingly rare it is, you'd think it'd be more common with how volatile gasoline can be. Most of the time even when someone gets into a bad wreck they don't usually burst into flames (except for the movies).


Seemingly rare maybe. However, as was stated earlier in the thread:

"Smidge20: According to the NFPA, there were 187,500 car fires in the US in 2011. That averages out to another vehicle catching fire every ~170 seconds. Car fires are far from rare."

I do wonder, though, if most of these car fires are catastrophic enough to consume the entire car or if that number also includes minor fires that died in a few seconds?
 
2013-10-03 09:10:09 AM  

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: libranoelrose: Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?

According to the article they haven't commented yet. You sound rather defensive

So what people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Beer Cap possibly know Tesla's comment already?


Aaaaannnd, that's what I get for commenting before finishing the thread...

/Sigh, wanted to snark too much
 
2013-10-03 09:10:39 AM  
I'd have expected a zero emissions fire.
 
2013-10-03 09:14:57 AM  

Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?


I rented a Chevy Sonic this week. Had I wrecked it, Chevy would have known almost immediately.

Without any further research, I'm guessing the car from the article has technology equal to a Chevy Sonic. I'm also guessing Tesla has fewer cars to keep up with than Chevy.
 
2013-10-03 09:15:36 AM  
I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?
 
2013-10-03 09:21:33 AM  
This is why I still drive a horse and buggy.
 
2013-10-03 09:23:34 AM  

CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?


They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?
 
2013-10-03 09:24:54 AM  
unavailable for comment

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-10-03 09:25:30 AM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: gaspode: Its like being back in the 70s or something



Good times...good times..

Cruising with the windows rolled down listening to AM radio.


"Hey baby... Lookin good..."
 
2013-10-03 09:26:37 AM  

AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?


How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.
 
2013-10-03 09:26:46 AM  

CPennypacker: Whats the problem?


Some people automatically take any change in the world as a personal assault and react accordingly.

That's basically it. The world is changing around them in ways they don't understand and it scares them.
 
2013-10-03 09:27:33 AM  

fusillade762: xria: gaspode: SoothinglyDeranged: So yeah, lithium metal fires are bad. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Guess what? Petroleum fires arent a farking birthday party either and they kill hundreds.

Being killed by the same thing that has killed thousands of people every year for decades isn't scary. Being killed by something that has never killed someone before is scary.

/not sure why, but that is the way it is

Most humans seem unable to do basic risk assessment. More Americans are killed by lightning and bathtub drownings than by terrorism, yet no one is "ZOMG BATHTUB LIGHTNING?!?!?"


Wasn't that a song by Howlin' Wolf?
 
2013-10-03 09:28:03 AM  

TheBigJerk: Tommy Moo: I just had an idea: what if we did for cars what they do for street cars? Just have a tax everyone pays to have the roads themselves electrified. You wouldn't have to do it every ten feet or anything, just once per mile there could be a plate on the ground that, when you drive over it, puts a mile's worth of juice back into your battery. You'd have leads dragging from your undercarriage that would gently scrape the plates. You'd be refueling F-Zero style.

It would only work when we get everyone on board, so there's a legitimate cost/benefit ratio, but if all cars become electric in the future, this is one solution to the range anxiety problem.

Because that's as scientifically impossible as the movie Pacific Rim.

Electric's limitations are torque (not that most of us  need a mountain-climbing mega-jeep), energy density (batteries are still big and heavy), and whatever the term is for, "it charges kinda slow."

Do we currently have the technology to have lightweight mostly-electric vehicles in a lot of places we instead of big ugly trucks?  Probably.  But as many things including this thread prove, it's not about the tech anyway, it's about people believing that driving a giant, gas-guzzling vehicle makes you powerful and/or safe.

I mean, commercials like this worked, what do you say to that?


Considering that Hummer sales collapsed around the time the H3 came out, I'd say that commercials like that didn't work.
 
2013-10-03 09:32:55 AM  

mjones73: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
[sites.psu.edu image 850x566] [media.wbur.org image 850x519] [stwot.motortrend.com image 850x531]


Is it crazy that I don't really see THAT much difference, sexy-ness wise?
 
2013-10-03 09:35:25 AM  

THE GREAT NAME: The lib logic of this thread

"I don't like hearing about the thing that happened"
=> "the person reporting it is hurting me"
=> "that person must be a meanie"
=> "everything he says is bad"
=> "he should be mocked, and ignored"
=> "so, in effect, the thing never happened"
=> "now I can return to smug superiority, which is vital to me, since it hides my inner emptiness"


You what now?
 
2013-10-03 09:37:10 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?

How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.


So people are all worked up over a company that is making a luxury item that only the rich can afford.  Also, one that loses money on every sale.  Hmmm.

Mercedes $57/sh
BMW $79/sh
Tesla $177/sh

And there are multiple companies with electric options now.  I still don't get it.
 
2013-10-03 09:40:08 AM  

robohobo: I wish Jeep would put out an fully powered, full strength Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's our go to car, we've owned a double handful in the past 15 years. So far electrics are really only faux sportscars or limp wristed compacts.


ten cars in 15 years and you want to buy another one?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... You won't something something oops. Heheh.
 
2013-10-03 09:47:10 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: I do wonder, though, if most of these car fires are catastrophic enough to consume the entire car or if that number also includes minor fires that died in a few seconds?


It only includes fires that emergency responders are called out for, so I doubt the burns on the seat are included.

http://www.nfpa.org/research/fire-statistics/the-us-fire-problem/hig hw ay-vehicle-fires

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/Files/Research/Fact%20sheets/vehiclefact sh eet.pdf

=Smidge=
 
2013-10-03 09:48:21 AM  

mjones73: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
[sites.psu.edu image 850x566] [media.wbur.org image 850x519] [stwot.motortrend.com image 850x531]


The Leaf.  I like small hatchbacks.
 
2013-10-03 09:49:57 AM  

Phil Moskowitz: They're basically hurtling hippy deathmissiles constructed to murder as many children as possible before they turn you gay.


I knew it. Part of an illuminati plot!
 
2013-10-03 09:50:21 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?

How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.


Neither was Chevy's SSR, but who wants a truck that you can't put something in the back once in a while.

Tesla = high powered toaster, don't put a fork in it.
 
2013-10-03 09:51:16 AM  

robohobo: I wish Jeep would put out an fully powered, full strength Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's our go to car, we've owned a double handful in the past 15 years. So far electrics are really only faux sportscars or limp wristed compacts.


A series hybrid with a motor and "smart" drive for each wheel, no mechanical connection between the IC engine and the wheels, should be able to climb over obstacles almost as if it were a four-footed animal.  You could stop and start on any slope that you could climb in the first place.  Maximum torque at zero RPM.

I would still want an IC engine running a generator for any off-road electric vehicle, though.  The marvelous ranges they claim for some electric cars are on level ground--once you start climbing hills, the range is going to be a lot shorter.  Even if you can get a lot of that energy back on the way back down, it limits how far you can go in the first place.
 
2013-10-03 09:52:38 AM  

AngryDragon: people are all worked up


Aside from people like you derpin' it up who's getting "worked up"?

AngryDragon: I still don't get it.


Because you choose not to. A large portion of the safety and convenience features that you enjoy today in your "normal" car started their march to standard equipment as an option on a luxury vehicle, particularly from Mercedes and Volvo when it comes to safety features. That's how it works. New technology is expensive so it starts out as something for the wealthy and they pay the initial upfront costs until the technology becomes common enough and easy enough to manufacture that it trickles down to us plebes. Tesla is the first company that appears poised to do that with electrics.
 
2013-10-03 09:54:15 AM  

CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?


Their political associations require that they attack anything that doesn't burn oil and/or pollute.

Any attempt to reduce pollution or oil use is seen as commie and green (aka. evil).
 
2013-10-03 09:55:25 AM  
*comes out of lurk mode*

Musk has repeatedly said that it's his goal to make EVs more affordable for the average person. It's one of the driving goals for Tesla motors. It's why they manufacture batteries for other auto companies, like Toyota. Also this:

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/04/09/elon-musk-3rd-tesla-model-comin g- 2016-or-2017/

I prefer to think of it like home computers. In the beginning, only the rich could afford them. Now it seems like everyone's got one in their pocket. *Shrug* things like this take time.

I do want me some of that Model X though... *sigh* Someday!
 
2013-10-03 09:58:32 AM  

Beer cap: legion_of_doo: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...
... still not in any way accurate.

I read a different article yesterday where an officer on the scene said there was no object found in the road.

You're not helping the "Elon is god" brigade here on Fark, dude. Totally harsh.

Sorry, by the way, it's also stated in the article on USA Today right now.

What people might want to be asking themselves is, how the hell could Tesla possibly know the cause already?


Because the driver called them to say that his car caught on fire after the collision?
Because the reporter called Tesla Motors for a comment?

Either one works.
 
2013-10-03 09:59:14 AM  

fireclown: mjones73: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
[sites.psu.edu image 850x566] [media.wbur.org image 850x519] [stwot.motortrend.com image 850x531]

Is it crazy that I don't really see THAT much difference, sexy-ness wise?



Yes.
 
2013-10-03 10:01:43 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?

How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.


Still not getting it?  File the entire Tesla cars crusade under "Rich People's Problems."  It's kind of amusing watching the green crowd white knighting for the ultra rich.

I'm kind of green neutral myself, I do what I can personally, I just think individual green cars are kind of a joke in the scheme of things.  12 people stuffed into a leaky van will outgreen 12 Smartcars any day.
 
2013-10-03 10:03:44 AM  

AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?


So what? its not food, its a luxury car
 
2013-10-03 10:03:56 AM  
captionsearch.com
/Another trolltastic headline!
 
2013-10-03 10:04:41 AM  

CasperImproved: I'm no chemist, and I'm not doing research this early in the day (5:30am local), but wouldn't lithium related accidents create a scenario where poisonous gasses are created as apposed to just a cloud of avoidable smoke from the petroleum?


No.

Lithium reacts with water to make hydrogen, which is flammable/explosive but not poisonous. It's also much lighter than air, so if you're lucky enough to avoid ignition and don't have a ceiling trapping it, it dissipates really quickly.

Lithium burns to make lithium oxide dust, which quickly converts to lithium hydroxide dust. I guess you could call a cloud of lithium hydroxide dust "poisonous gas", but it's a bit of a stretch. A water spray would knock it right down, a simple respiratory filter (mask) would block it quite effectively, and it'll settle out of the air on its own in short order.

Petroleum derivatives produce heavier-than-air vapors which can pour across the ground until they reach an ignition source. When they burn, they produce a nasty cocktail of carbon monoxide, carcinogens and soot. We tend to downplay that risk because we've already accepted it in exchange for the benefits of a petroleum-based economy.
 
2013-10-03 10:04:51 AM  

TheBigJerk: Electric's limitations are torque


Torque, especially low-end torque, is electric's strong point.  Did you watch the video of the "White Zombie" (a converted Datsun econobox) at the drag meet?
 
2013-10-03 10:06:47 AM  

Teedee: *comes out of lurk mode*

Musk has repeatedly said that it's his goal to make EVs more affordable for the average person. It's one of the driving goals for Tesla motors. It's why they manufacture batteries for other auto companies, like Toyota. Also this:

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/04/09/elon-musk-3rd-tesla-model-comin g- 2016-or-2017/

I prefer to think of it like home computers. In the beginning, only the rich could afford them. Now it seems like everyone's got one in their pocket. *Shrug* things like this take time.

I do want me some of that Model X though... *sigh* Someday!


Your analogy is a good one. One of my coworkers was an early adopter of laptops here at work (back when they were very rare). He had a couple over the years that were over $10k each. Now they are common and cost a few hundred bucks.

Personally I think Tesla was very smart here. They knew they would not be able to manufacture many vehicles so first they went after super high end sports car and then the luxury market; both are relatively low volume of sales but with a good mark-up.

As their production capacity and operating capital increases they seem to be planning for lower cost models (but still not a high volume economy line) which will require higher volume production.

Seems obvious in hindsight but so many other companies have gone for the super-cheap model first and just never been able to match demand.
 
2013-10-03 10:07:04 AM  

AngryDragon: Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?

How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.

So people are all worked up over a company that is making a luxury item that only the rich can afford.  Also, one that loses money on every sale.  Hmmm.

Mercedes $57/sh
BMW $79/sh
Tesla $177/sh

And there are multiple companies with electric options now.  I still don't get it.


At least use models that would be comparable to the Model S. Just picking any random BMW or Merc is silly. The closest comparable class to Teslas model S would likely be the S Class Merc and M5 BMW.

Base Model S is $70k
Base Mercedes S Class $90k
Base BMW M5 $90k
 
2013-10-03 10:07:43 AM  

skozlaw: AngryDragon: people are all worked up

Aside from people like you derpin' it up who's getting "worked up"?

AngryDragon: I still don't get it.

Because you choose not to. A large portion of the safety and convenience features that you enjoy today in your "normal" car started their march to standard equipment as an option on a luxury vehicle, particularly from Mercedes and Volvo when it comes to safety features. That's how it works. New technology is expensive so it starts out as something for the wealthy and they pay the initial upfront costs until the technology becomes common enough and easy enough to manufacture that it trickles down to us plebes. Tesla is the first company that appears poised to do that with electrics.


My point is though that there is nothing particularly revolutionary about the individual facets of the Tesla.  The Volt, Leaf, and other hybrids already incorporate much if not all of the technology and many of those companies are moving towards second generation products.

I get electric vehicles.  They make perfect sense and I hope to see them everywhere as soon as possible.  I don't see Tesla poised to do that any more than any other company though.  Oh, and as soon as one of the big buys gets a vehicle out that matches it in capabilities, they're gonna eat Tesla's lunch.  The economies of scale in a GM, Toyota, etc. will simply overwhelm them in volume.

My problem isn't with electric vehicles, it's with the lack of attention to fundamentals with this company.  The Volt is already falling in price into the median cost and has the advantages of increasing battery range and a gas extender.  I think Tesla investors are gonna get burned long term.
 
2013-10-03 10:10:14 AM  

TheBigJerk: I mean, commercials like this worked, what do you say to that?


Good god.  Was that a real commercial made by Hummer, or somebody's parody of one?  Because of Poe's Law, I can't tell.
 
2013-10-03 10:14:19 AM  

Ker_Thwap: It's kind of amusing watching the green crowd white knighting for the ultra rich.


Congratz on having one of the dumbest comments in the thread.

The 'white knighting' is for a company that has put out an amazing product. It has nothing to do with 'the rich'. It has to do with the fact that Tesla's current model, while out of most of our price ranges, received the highest rating from Consumer Reports. And their next model is targeted at a price point that many of us will be able to afford and are looking forward to.

If we like Lamborghinis are we also 'white knighting for the rich' or is that ok because it burns a petroleum product?
 
2013-10-03 10:16:10 AM  

huntercr: For example, EMT's come to treat someone who appears to have been exposed to some spray from the batteries. Do you clean it off with water?


Of course you do. It's a water-soluble alkali.

It's worth remembering that Tesla uses lithium-ion batteries, which don't contain lithium metal. The batteries still store a lot of energy, and if they let go of that energy all at once you get a perfectly adequate fire. But it's not like throwing a chunk of cesium into a bathtub.

More info about lithium-ion battery safety
 
2013-10-03 10:18:01 AM  

AngryDragon: My problem isn't with electric vehicles, it's with the lack of attention to fundamentals with this company. The Volt is already falling in price into the median cost and has the advantages of increasing battery range and a gas extender. I think Tesla investors are gonna get burned long term.


Bring it on. Competition is all good for us consumers.

You may be right that Tesla may not be able to go toe-to-toe against the big guys for long. But maybe they will. In the end their presence is a good thing because they drive competition.
 
2013-10-03 10:20:58 AM  

Farking Canuck: Ker_Thwap: It's kind of amusing watching the green crowd white knighting for the ultra rich.

Congratz on having one of the dumbest comments in the thread.

The 'white knighting' is for a company that has put out an amazing product. It has nothing to do with 'the rich'. It has to do with the fact that Tesla's current model, while out of most of our price ranges, received the highest rating from Consumer Reports. And their next model is targeted at a price point that many of us will be able to afford and are looking forward to.

If we like Lamborghinis are we also 'white knighting for the rich' or is that ok because it burns a petroleum product?


You took my comment out of context, it's kind of a tacky thing to do.  If you just like the Tesla because it's sexy, that's one thing.  I think it's sexy too, just like an Audi R8.  I believe if you read my comment in it's entirety you'll find I'm gently mocking those who are being "greenwashed."
 
2013-10-03 10:28:33 AM  

Boomstickz: Storing that much energy in that little space...doesn't matter what the fuel / power source is...why did this even make the news?


Because it's a new version of the accident.  The more usual situation is a punctured gas tank, not a punctured battery pack.

RobotSpider: Exactly. The problem isn't the vehicle, it's the stored energy. Whether it's liquid, gas, radioactive, or electro-chemical, whenever you unintentionally release ALL the energy, you get fire/explosion/radiation. Can't wait for dark-energy or matter/anti-matter power. Then when you hit that chunk of metal in the road you'll accidentally open a wormhole or something.


Which is why supercapacitors aren't a good idea for cars even if they could be made to work.  A breach liberates all the energy at once--you're going to have to make them awfully tough or a traffic jam could turn into a chain reaction explosion.  (Just compare the energy in your gas tank vs bombs the Air Force drops--your tank is the equivalent of a pretty big one.  A gas tank can't explode because there's not enough oxygen, it just makes a nasty fire that liberates the energy over time.  A supercapacitor has no such rate limit.)

flondrix: A series hybrid with a motor and "smart" drive for each wheel, no mechanical connection between the IC engine and the wheels, should be able to climb over obstacles almost as if it were a four-footed animal. You could stop and start on any slope that you could climb in the first place. Maximum torque at zero RPM.

I would still want an IC engine running a generator for any off-road electric vehicle, though. The marvelous ranges they claim for some electric cars are on level ground--once you start climbing hills, the range is going to be a lot shorter. Even if you can get a lot of that energy back on the way back down, it limits how far you can go in the first place.


Yeah.  I think we have a good model in trains--fuel provides the power but the drive is electric.  The presence of the battery pack allows going even farther--there's no need for it to be an IC engine.  There are other engines that are more efficient but their throttle control is too slow.  If you can make up for that slow throttle control by drawing from a battery for a bit--100mpg wouldn't surprise me.
 
2013-10-03 10:30:40 AM  

Ker_Thwap: Farking Canuck: Ker_Thwap: It's kind of amusing watching the green crowd white knighting for the ultra rich.

Congratz on having one of the dumbest comments in the thread.

The 'white knighting' is for a company that has put out an amazing product. It has nothing to do with 'the rich'. It has to do with the fact that Tesla's current model, while out of most of our price ranges, received the highest rating from Consumer Reports. And their next model is targeted at a price point that many of us will be able to afford and are looking forward to.

If we like Lamborghinis are we also 'white knighting for the rich' or is that ok because it burns a petroleum product?

You took my comment out of context, it's kind of a tacky thing to do.  If you just like the Tesla because it's sexy, that's one thing.  I think it's sexy too, just like an Audi R8.  I believe if you read my comment in it's entirety you'll find I'm gently mocking those who are being "greenwashed."


Then you probably should have picked somebody to quote that was actually doing that. All I've done here is point out all car types catch fire and that the Tesla is a luxury car most people will never afford (and picked comparable Merc and BMW models for the Model S).
 
2013-10-03 10:33:06 AM  

AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?


The Tesla began with an awesome sports car, based on the Lotus.  They really knew how to play to the geeks-who-made-it-big-in-IT-and-are-now-having-their-midlife-crises demographic.  The more practical car they followed it with is, by all accounts, pretty nice too.  The Leaf is much less sexy, but I haven't hear anything bad about it from anyone who has actually owned one.  The Volt was...typical GM.  They took something that could have been cool and screwed it up.  A plug-in hybrid should be a "series" hybrid, a functional electric car with a minimal, optomized IC engine turning a generator and nothing else.  Instead they made it a parallel hybrid like everyone else, and so you have what was supposed to be an "electric" car hauling around a transmission, differential, complicated clutch. etc. everywhere it goes in addition to an engine and a generator.  It could have been just an electric car with a tiny engine and generator replacing part of the battery weight.
 
2013-10-03 10:34:50 AM  
I was responding to the guy/girl who  didn't understand the hate for Tesla.  You were also part of the conversation apparently.
 
2013-10-03 10:35:03 AM  

mjones73: Which would you rather drive...


The Leaf is cute, except for the diseased headlights.
 
2013-10-03 10:36:57 AM  

AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?


So do a lot of high end cars.
 
2013-10-03 10:40:54 AM  

flondrix: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

The Tesla began with an awesome sports car, based on the Lotus.  They really knew how to play to the geeks-who-made-it-big-in-IT-and-are-now-having-their-midlife-crises demographic.  The more practical car they followed it with is, by all accounts, pretty nice too.  The Leaf is much less sexy, but I haven't hear anything bad about it from anyone who has actually owned one.  The Volt was...typical GM.  They took something that could have been cool and screwed it up.  A plug-in hybrid should be a "series" hybrid, a functional electric car with a minimal, optomized IC engine turning a generator and nothing else.  Instead they made it a parallel hybrid like everyone else, and so you have what was supposed to be an "electric" car hauling around a transmission, differential, complicated clutch. etc. everywhere it goes in addition to an engine and a generator.  It could have been just an electric car with a tiny engine and generator replacing part of the battery weight.


That is not true.  The Volt is a series hybrid under almost all circumstances.  Only when going at very high speed, >70 mph, or under extremely heavy load does the gas engine kick in.  Results like this would be impossible otherwise:

Voltstats.net
 
2013-10-03 10:42:40 AM  

TheBigJerk: Electric's limitations are torque


Yeah, notsomuch.
 
2013-10-03 10:43:11 AM  

AngryDragon: nothing particularly revolutionary about the individual facets of the Tesla


There's nothing particularly revolutionary about anything on a BMW or Mercedes ICE car, they don't seem to be doing too bad. In fact, fundamentally, they're using technology that's older than the technology in the light bulb above my head right now.

Yet they continue to thrive.

AngryDragon: The Volt...


... is not a Tesla S competitor. Would you argue that BMW's fundamentals are flawed because Ford offers cheaper vehicles?
 
2013-10-03 10:43:19 AM  

Ker_Thwap: 12 people stuffed into a leaky van will outgreen 12 Smartcars any day.


If you actually haul those 12 people on a regular basis, definitely.  If your typical daily commute is just you, then a small electric would be less wasteful.
 
2013-10-03 10:47:06 AM  
Hybrids will never succeed in the long run because they are tied to internal combustion.  Having two systems is really really stupid, it adds a ton of weight and doubles your repair costs.  Much better to do as Tesla has done and focus on a full electric that gets rid of the gas motor entirely.  Rental companies will be falling all over themselves to buy Tesla's next generation of cheaper electric, they'll save a fortune on repairs alone.
 
Ant
2013-10-03 10:48:26 AM  
What the fark is it with highway 167 and large metallic objects flying loose? My car was hit by one of those on that freeway too. It cracked the underside of my bumper cover.
 
2013-10-03 10:50:45 AM  
My very first instinct upon seeing the headline was to check if it was on the front page of the Drudge Report (yes, it was.)

I've always wondered if that dude had a hang-up about electric cars because of some conservative principle, or if it's something more personal, like his date pouring a Sprite in his crotch while watching GATTACA.
 
2013-10-03 10:54:34 AM  

AngryDragon: That is not true. The Volt is a series hybrid under almost all circumstances. Only when going at very high speed, >70 mph, or under extremely heavy load does the gas engine kick in. Results like this would be impossible otherwise:


Is there a mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels at some speed, or not?  I was told that there is.  If so, that would mean you have to have a transmission et al., and you will be hauling that transmission around all the time even if you only use it a small part of the time.
 
2013-10-03 10:55:43 AM  

flondrix: Ker_Thwap: 12 people stuffed into a leaky van will outgreen 12 Smartcars any day.

If you actually haul those 12 people on a regular basis, definitely.  If your typical daily commute is just you, then a small electric would be less wasteful.


Agreed.  Unless you live in my town.  Where I see routinely see small electric/hybrids sitting in the driveways of 5 bedroom seasonal homes, right next to the SUV.  I think the hybrids are just to be seen at the local Co-op grocery, and the SUV is for the daily commute.  But I could be wrong.
 
2013-10-03 10:57:36 AM  

RobotSpider: Night Night Cream Puff: You know who else we should be raising our arms up against for potential car fires. Jaguar! They nearly killed Dick Van Dyke!

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50153317n

Cars of all sorts can catch fire. Your bias is quite apparent subby.

Exactly.  The problem isn't the vehicle, it's the stored energy. Whether it's liquid, gas, radioactive, or electro-chemical, whenever you unintentionally release ALL the energy, you get fire/explosion/radiation.  Can't wait for dark-energy or matter/anti-matter power. Then when you hit that chunk of metal in the road you'll accidentally open a wormhole or something.


Thank you. This gave me a helluva laugh. "Yeah, we blew up half of San Francisco, but hey, we have clean energy vehicles!"
 
2013-10-03 10:58:26 AM  
Alternate Headline: Safest car in America warns driver of impending fire after malfunction caused by debris collision.
 
2013-10-03 10:59:44 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Hybrids will never succeed in the long run because they are tied to internal combustion. Having two systems is really really stupid, it adds a ton of weight and doubles your repair costs.


It works for locomotives, some earth movers, and the military is excited about the idea for a new generation of combat vehicles.  But you may be right that for an econobox commuter car, it is cheaper to leave the ultimate power source at home and just run on batteries.  But for long trips away from power outlets, batteries are still a long ways away from being able to compete with tanks full of flammable liquid for energy storage density.  I would not be surprised if off-road and service vehicles went hybrid, though.
 
2013-10-03 11:00:48 AM  

flondrix: AngryDragon: That is not true. The Volt is a series hybrid under almost all circumstances. Only when going at very high speed, >70 mph, or under extremely heavy load does the gas engine kick in. Results like this would be impossible otherwise:

Is there a mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels at some speed, or not?  I was told that there is.  If so, that would mean you have to have a transmission et al., and you will be hauling that transmission around all the time even if you only use it a small part of the time.


It connects via a planetary gear.

Chevy Volt
 
2013-10-03 11:04:25 AM  

Loren: Which is why supercapacitors aren't a good idea for cars even if they could be made to work.  A breach liberates all the energy at once--you're going to have to make them awfully tough or a traffic jam could turn into a chain reaction explosion.  (Just compare the energy in your gas tank vs bombs the Air Force drops--your tank is the equivalent of a pretty big one.  A gas tank can't explode because there's not enough oxygen, it just makes a nasty fire that liberates the energy over time.  A supercapacitor has no such rate limit.)


I'm pretty sure this isn't the case. Supercapacitors have an inherent "internal resistance" that limits the rate of discharge, and it's distributed throughout the energy-storage structure -- even if you drive a silver nail straight through it, the capacitor won't release all its energy in a detonation. Worst-case, it'll "pop" (puff out its insides) like a kernel of popcorn, only less energetically, and with virtually no risk of a "chain reaction" to even other supercaps in the same vehicle, never mind other vehicles.

There are capacitors designed to dump all their energy in a very short pulse. That's what folks use for can-crushers, coin-shrinkers, and the like. They charge to a very high voltage, and have very low internal resistance (and inductance). Supercaps are the opposite -- low-voltage, high ESR (effective series resistance), but lots and lots of farads. That's what you need to run a motor or reclaim energy from regenerative braking.

If only we could get the energy density a bit higher.
 
2013-10-03 11:06:19 AM  

Ker_Thwap: Agreed. Unless you live in my town. Where I see routinely see small electric/hybrids sitting in the driveways of 5 bedroom seasonal homes, right next to the SUV. I think the hybrids are just to be seen at the local Co-op grocery, and the SUV is for the daily commute. But I could be wrong.


The other way around would make so much more sense.  BTW, some city buses are going hybrid, too.  Electric motors and batteries are better than IC engines for anything that has to start and stop repeatedly; at some point, it makes sense to replace a portion of the batteries with an optimized IC engine and generator.  That is how hybrids should be designed, rather that tacking a motor and batteries onto a fundamentally unchanged gasoline car.
 
2013-10-03 11:15:16 AM  

CtrlAltDestroy: It connects via a planetary gear.


Which means that the gasoline engine has to be designed around the needs of mechanically propelling a car, though thankfully over only part of the car's speed range.  In also means you have complicated gearing.  In a true series hybrid, the engine is tweaked and optimized to turn a generator and do nothing else.  It can be directly coupled to the generator, which is similarly designed to work with the engine.  No transmission, no gear shift.  Then, motors can turn the wheels, and all of that spiffy all-wheel-drive stuff that modern cars do can be handled by electronics rather than complicated mechanical differentials.
 
2013-10-03 11:19:01 AM  

flondrix: Ker_Thwap: Agreed. Unless you live in my town. Where I see routinely see small electric/hybrids sitting in the driveways of 5 bedroom seasonal homes, right next to the SUV. I think the hybrids are just to be seen at the local Co-op grocery, and the SUV is for the daily commute. But I could be wrong.

The other way around would make so much more sense.  BTW, some city buses are going hybrid, too.  Electric motors and batteries are better than IC engines for anything that has to start and stop repeatedly; at some point, it makes sense to replace a portion of the batteries with an optimized IC engine and generator.  That is how hybrids should be designed, rather that tacking a motor and batteries onto a fundamentally unchanged gasoline car.


Now this would make so much more sense to me, if we actually heard about the company that's making city buses more efficient than we do about freaking playboy Musk with his ornamental driveway candy for the rich.

I don't really hate the rich, I just hate seeing someone held up as a hero because they make a grossly ungreen product slightly more palatable without addressing the actual stupidity of the product to start with.  To  use hyperbole, it's like calling yourself an eco warrior because your personal jetpack gets an extra mile per gallon of puppy juice.
 
2013-10-03 11:26:15 AM  

sonofslacker: King Something: ...wreckED 'im.

/I'm not sure if I've had too much booze or not enough
//either way, I haven't got the correct amount of vodak in my system

I'm guessing you moving toward 'too much'. You can type mostly coherent sentences but seem to be drinking 'vodak' instead of vodka.


educate yourself, n00b
 
2013-10-03 11:30:33 AM  

flondrix: Is there a mechanical connection between the engine and the wheels at some speed, or not?  I was told that there is.  If so, that would mean you have to have a transmission et al., and you will be hauling that transmission around all the time even if you only use it a small part of the time.


Yes to your question. No to your conclusion.

The volt did not add a "transmission et al." to gain the ability to transfer mechanical power from the generator. They use a planetary gear for the main drive (single gear ration) and made the outer gear ring able to be driven by the generator motor or the gas motor". So all they really added was three clutches so that the power sources can be changed on the fly to maintain highest efficiency.

This is a far cry from adding a transmission ... in fact it was done instead of adding a simple two-position gearbox. It was a relatively simple way to extend the parts that were already there to gain 'high speed' modes that were more efficient than the single gear electric drive in the base design.
 
2013-10-03 11:31:32 AM  

AngryDragon: flondrix: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

The Tesla began with an awesome sports car, based on the Lotus.  They really knew how to play to the geeks-who-made-it-big-in-IT-and-are-now-having-their-midlife-crises demographic.  The more practical car they followed it with is, by all accounts, pretty nice too.  The Leaf is much less sexy, but I haven't hear anything bad about it from anyone who has actually owned one.  The Volt was...typical GM.  They took something that could have been cool and screwed it up.  A plug-in hybrid should be a "series" hybrid, a functional electric car with a minimal, optomized IC engine turning a generator and nothing else.  Instead they made it a parallel hybrid like everyone else, and so you have what was supposed to be an "electric" car hauling around a transmission, differential, complicated clutch. etc. everywhere it goes in addition to an engine and a generator.  It could have been just an electric car with a tiny engine and generator replacing part of the battery weight.

That is not true.  The Volt is a series hybrid under almost all circumstances.  Only when going at very high speed, >70 mph, or under extremely heavy load does the gas engine kick in.  Results like this would be impossible otherwise:

Voltstats.net


It is true that the Volt carries and IC drivetrain. That's the inefficient part. They would be on to something with an IC motor that was only connected to a generator, and its only purpose is to charge the batteries. If you get through your day with enough power, that motor doesn't need to run, and you can recharge with a plug. But no, they'd rather haul around a mechanical drivetrain that allows variable gear ratios to deal with the crappy torque curve that IC engines have to deal with.

The hybrid approach of the last decade is to use electric power to aid in acceleration (which flattens out power spikes so they don't use as much gas) and low-speed cruising. That's a fine approach, but the next move seems to be all-electric propulsion, with the charge coming either from batteries alone, or from a small motor that's recharging the batteries, or a combination. A generator can be much more efficient than an auto engine because it can be designed optimally for one tight RPM range (no worries about a torque curve).

flondrix: Ker_Thwap: 12 people stuffed into a leaky van will outgreen 12 Smartcars any day.

If you actually haul those 12 people on a regular basis, definitely.  If your typical daily commute is just you, then a small electric would be less wasteful.


Ker_Thwap was suggesting that the real solution is not micro-transit of trying to figure out how to move one person around with a 4000 lb vehicle and 20 lbs of groceries, but how to move around a groups of people who would all be traveling on the same road at the same time anyway. I think there's some cool stuff coming along in this direction in the future.
 
2013-10-03 11:31:36 AM  

Ker_Thwap: flondrix: Ker_Thwap: Agreed. Unless you live in my town. Where I see routinely see small electric/hybrids sitting in the driveways of 5 bedroom seasonal homes, right next to the SUV. I think the hybrids are just to be seen at the local Co-op grocery, and the SUV is for the daily commute. But I could be wrong.

The other way around would make so much more sense.  BTW, some city buses are going hybrid, too.  Electric motors and batteries are better than IC engines for anything that has to start and stop repeatedly; at some point, it makes sense to replace a portion of the batteries with an optimized IC engine and generator.  That is how hybrids should be designed, rather that tacking a motor and batteries onto a fundamentally unchanged gasoline car.

Now this would make so much more sense to me, if we actually heard about the company that's making city buses more efficient than we do about freaking playboy Musk with his ornamental driveway candy for the rich.

I don't really hate the rich, I just hate seeing someone held up as a hero because they make a grossly ungreen product slightly more palatable without addressing the actual stupidity of the product to start with.  To  use hyperbole, it's like calling yourself an eco warrior because your personal jetpack gets an extra mile per gallon of puppy juice.


It's been addressed in this thread already, but technology has to start somewhere and it's going to be expensive at first.  Tesla started in the luxury/sports car market because that's where they could realize a return on expensive technology with small numbers.  As the research/investment costs decrease and the ability to take advantage of larger production scales increase, less luxurious and more affordable options can be made available.  This is why (some) people, myself included, are excited about the company.  That is, aside from the awesome engineering that's in the current generation Teslas.
 
2013-10-03 11:37:28 AM  

flondrix: Which means that the gasoline engine has to be designed around the needs of mechanically propelling a car, though thankfully over only part of the car's speed range. In also means you have complicated gearing.


It does not. You keep making incorrect assumptions. The ICE drives the outer planetary ring in the same way it drives the generator.

There is no additional gearing or "complicated gearing" ... there was simply some clutches added to set outer planetary gear: is it held fast, is it driven by the generator or or is it driven by the ICE.
 
2013-10-03 11:39:10 AM  

AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?


Because of the emotional loading of the Derp.

/btw, this one, I told ya so long ago
//just wait until the fools relearn the lessons on steam
 
2013-10-03 11:45:42 AM  

mjones73: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
[sites.psu.edu image 850x566] [media.wbur.org image 850x519] [stwot.motortrend.com image 850x531]



hmm well, seeing how the starting price after federal tax credits compares:

Tesla:    $62,400   (Electric)
Volt:       $27,500   (Plug-in Hybrid)
Leaf:      $21,300   (Electric)

It's not so much about how it looks and drives as it is about the price for most customers, with the Tesla being 3x more expensive than the Leaf. That being said, take an EV/Hybrid version of a normally gas-powered car (Focus, Golf, Fit, etc) and odds are you'll get something that looks and drives like a regular car without being priced into the luxury car segment.

Golf       $---------   (Electric)
Focus    $27,700   (Electric)
Smart     $18,300   (Electric)
Prius      $29,500   (Plug-in Hybrid)
FitEV
500e
/getting lazy

That's the way to go in my opinion, we've finally passed the ugly-futuristic electric car concept and are starting to get attractive, regular versions while simultaneously seeing a price war that's dropping the stickers thousands of dollars, making EVs an affordable reality.
 
2013-10-03 11:50:08 AM  

waterrockets: It is true that the Volt carries and IC drivetrain. That's the inefficient part. They would be on to something with an IC motor that was only connected to a generator, and its only purpose is to charge the batteries. If you get through your day with enough power, that motor doesn't need to run, and you can recharge with a plug. But no, they'd rather haul around a mechanical drivetrain that allows variable gear ratios to deal with the crappy torque curve that IC engines have to deal with.


The bolded parts are misleading and incorrect (respectively).

The mechanical connection between the generator and the outer ring of the planetary gear was already in the design to provide "high speed mode". This is a fixed gear ratio with a clutch so it can be engaged or disengaged on the fly.

Similarly, the mechanical connection between the ICE and the generator was already in place to provide "extended range mode". Again, a fixed gear ratio with a clutch so it can be engaged or disengaged on the fly.

By engaging both at the same time you get "high speed, extended range mode" where the outer ring of the planetary gear is driven by the ICE. No extra "mechanical drivetrain" or any other parts were needed to allow this mode. It just happens when both clutches are engaged (and the clutch that locks the outer ring of the planetary gear is disengaged of course).

All of these assumptions about added complexity and extra transmissions are wrong. Once "high speed mode" was added to the design (to gain efficiency at highway speeds) the rest came for free.
 
2013-10-03 11:55:31 AM  

Farking Canuck: flondrix: Which means that the gasoline engine has to be designed around the needs of mechanically propelling a car, though thankfully over only part of the car's speed range. In also means you have complicated gearing.

It does not. You keep making incorrect assumptions. The ICE drives the outer planetary ring in the same way it drives the generator.

There is no additional gearing or "complicated gearing" ... there was simply some clutches added to set outer planetary gear: is it held fast, is it driven by the generator or or is it driven by the ICE.


Besides, not sure how much more "complicated" you get after a planetary gear set.

/op has never taken apart an automatic transaxle, I bet
 
2013-10-03 11:57:26 AM  

Farking Canuck: waterrockets: It is true that the Volt carries and IC drivetrain. That's the inefficient part. They would be on to something with an IC motor that was only connected to a generator, and its only purpose is to charge the batteries. If you get through your day with enough power, that motor doesn't need to run, and you can recharge with a plug. But no, they'd rather haul around a mechanical drivetrain that allows variable gear ratios to deal with the crappy torque curve that IC engines have to deal with.

The bolded parts are misleading and incorrect (respectively).

The mechanical connection between the generator and the outer ring of the planetary gear was already in the design to provide "high speed mode". This is a fixed gear ratio with a clutch so it can be engaged or disengaged on the fly.

Similarly, the mechanical connection between the ICE and the generator was already in place to provide "extended range mode". Again, a fixed gear ratio with a clutch so it can be engaged or disengaged on the fly.

By engaging both at the same time you get "high speed, extended range mode" where the outer ring of the planetary gear is driven by the ICE. No extra "mechanical drivetrain" or any other parts were needed to allow this mode. It just happens when both clutches are engaged (and the clutch that locks the outer ring of the planetary gear is disengaged of course).

All of these assumptions about added complexity and extra transmissions are wrong. Once "high speed mode" was added to the design (to gain efficiency at highway speeds) the rest came for free.


Ok, thanks for the explanation. I read a couple articles and they failed to convey that design.

I still wonder why/how it is more efficient to run it that way than to go with the freight train engine configuration, where the IC engine doesn't touch the drivetrain. It seems to me that to go higher speeds requires more energy, so the IC generator would just use more gas to keep up. Why is it better to connect it directly to the drivetrain?
 
2013-10-03 11:58:48 AM  

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Rental companies will be falling all over themselves to buy Tesla's next generation of cheaper electric, they'll save a fortune on repairs alone.


Sure:  instead of repairing the car after a collision, they can just let it burn and sweep up the remains with a dustpan.
 
2013-10-03 12:00:38 PM  
because other cars never catch fire?
 
2013-10-03 12:01:25 PM  

The_Philosopher_King: I just think it is proof that Tesla is going after the Lamborghini market segment.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 504x307]


[beijingcream.com image 699x390]

Pics hot it more ways than one.


Did you know Lamborghini makes tractors, too?

img2u.info
 
2013-10-03 12:01:33 PM  

Xcott: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Rental companies will be falling all over themselves to buy Tesla's next generation of cheaper electric, they'll save a fortune on repairs alone.

Sure:  instead of repairing the car after a collision, they can just let it burn and sweep up the remains with a dustpan.


Rental companies won't care so long as it reduces their repair costs 50% or more.  Electric drive trains just don't break down, not at anything close to internal combustion engines.  That's one of the main reasons the big automakers hate them, they make bank on the service side of the game.
 
2013-10-03 12:01:44 PM  
I would imagine adding some sort of automatic fire suppression system might make sense if they are unable to make the batteries sturdier.
 
2013-10-03 12:06:59 PM  

nocturnal001: I would imagine adding some sort of automatic fire suppression system might make sense if they are unable to make the batteries sturdier.


ACK! Weight!

Good luck with that and trying to make the EPA's MPG guidelines.
 
2013-10-03 12:10:45 PM  
Well that settles it.  Time to kill this whole God forsaken experiment and focus on the old reliable cars we've been using.  Those things never have problems.
 
2013-10-03 12:13:25 PM  

waterrockets: Ok, thanks for the explanation. I read a couple articles and they failed to convey that design.

I still wonder why/how it is more efficient to run it that way than to go with the freight train engine configuration, where the IC engine doesn't touch the drivetrain. It seems to me that to go higher speeds requires more energy, so the IC generator would just use more gas to keep up. Why is it better to connect it directly to the drivetrain?


The "high speed mode" was the one that added complication to the design; which is too bad. But I guess running an electric drive on a single gear ratio from 0 to 100 mph got too inefficient at highway cruising speeds.

So they freed up the outer ring of the planetary gear to allow it to be driven, added a clutch which either locks it into place or allows it to spin, and connected the generator to the planetary through a second clutch.

Not a lot of additions but not zero either. It was decided that this was simpler than adding a two speed gearbox on the main drive so that gives you an idea how much complication it added.

Like I said above, once these additions were in place, the ability to drive the outer ring of the planetary gear from the ICE came for free (as it was already connected to the generator through a clutch).
 
2013-10-03 12:16:42 PM  

Peki: nocturnal001: I would imagine adding some sort of automatic fire suppression system might make sense if they are unable to make the batteries sturdier.

ACK! Weight!

Good luck with that and trying to make the EPA's MPG guidelines.


Must be some way to minimize the weight.  A small regular fire extinguisher only weighs a few pounds.  For the price of a Tesla S I'm sure some sort of high tech solution is out there.
 
2013-10-03 12:18:43 PM  

LoneCraneFullMoon: Well that settles it.  Time to kill this whole God forsaken experiment and focus on the old reliable cars we've been using.  Those things never have problems.


There is a reason your mechanic drives old POS cars. Just sayin'.

/was a car snob, thought anything older than 3 years was crap. Got her mechanic's degree, won't buy anything newer than a '94.
 
2013-10-03 12:20:16 PM  

waterrockets: If you get through your day with enough power, that motor doesn't need to run, and you can recharge with a plug.


This is exactly how the Volt works.  I've driven one.
 
2013-10-03 12:22:29 PM  

Kuroshin: Still thinking of buying an electric motorcycle, once the price becomes sane.


They'll come down once the development costs for the "loud-ass pipe emulator" have been amortized...
 
2013-10-03 12:35:35 PM  

farkerts: because other cars never catch fire?


Came here to say this. Cars burst into flames all the time. Especially if you collide with them.
 
2013-10-03 12:39:23 PM  
All this, and no mention yet of the MDI Autos AirCar, the one with a fuel source that won't result in car fires?
 
2013-10-03 12:42:17 PM  
A fire that destroyed a Tesla electric car near Seattle began in the vehicle's battery pack

first sentence of TFA
 
2013-10-03 12:44:13 PM  
Look at that S car go!
 
2013-10-03 01:04:18 PM  

Peki: LoneCraneFullMoon: Well that settles it.  Time to kill this whole God forsaken experiment and focus on the old reliable cars we've been using.  Those things never have problems.

There is a reason your mechanic drives old POS cars. Just sayin'.

/was a car snob, thought anything older than 3 years was crap. Got her mechanic's degree, won't buy anything newer than a '94.


Hah, I know.  I was bein' snarky.  New cars have so many problems it's ridiculous. Just downright doggone silly, really.
 
2013-10-03 01:05:55 PM  

Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: Night Night Cream Puff: AngryDragon: CPennypacker: I don't understand hate for Tesla. They are American, their cars are well made, function well and are beautiful. Whats the problem?

They cost 50% more than the median annual income of a family of 4?

How many families of 4 with that median annual imcome buy luxury cars? Difficulty: Not used or leased luxury cars. Tesla is not targeting the average motorist.

So people are all worked up over a company that is making a luxury item that only the rich can afford.  Also, one that loses money on every sale.  Hmmm.

Mercedes $57/sh
BMW $79/sh
Tesla $177/sh

And there are multiple companies with electric options now.  I still don't get it.

At least use models that would be comparable to the Model S. Just picking any random BMW or Merc is silly. The closest comparable class to Teslas model S would likely be the S Class Merc and M5 BMW.

Base Model S is $70k
Base Mercedes S Class $90k
Base BMW M5 $90k


The Telsa S P85 would probably be closer to those in performance, etc.  A friend of mine has a deposit on one and keeps going back and forth over whether wants to buy it.  In any case,  I sat in a Telsa S a couple of weekends ago and it seems like an awful lot of car for the money.  Well, at least sitting still...I didn't get to drive it.
 
2013-10-03 01:11:43 PM  

SlothB77: A fire that destroyed a Tesla electric car near Seattle began in the vehicle's battery pack

first sentence of TFA


was caused by a large metallic object hitting one of the battery pack's modules

second sentence of TFA
 
2013-10-03 01:27:17 PM  

TheYeti: Night Night Cream Puff:
Base Model S is $70k
Base Mercedes S Class $90k
Base BMW M5 $90k

The Telsa S P85 would probably be closer to those in performance, etc.  A friend of mine has a deposit on one and keeps going back and forth over whether wants to buy it.  In any case,  I sat in a Telsa S a couple of weekends ago and it seems like an awful lot of car for the money.  Well, at least sitting still...I didn't get to drive it.


Good point. Have to revise the Model S up to $81-82k (pre-tax credit), which still puts it below the others in terms of cost. One article I was reading put it in the same luxury class as the S Class so I was just taking the most basic model in class. Another aritcle put the BMW 7 series in the same class instead of the M5 which makes sense too.
 
2013-10-03 01:27:17 PM  

Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: SlothB77: A fire that destroyed a Tesla electric car near Seattle began in the vehicle's battery pack

first sentence of TFA

was caused by a large metallic object hitting one of the battery pack's modules

second sentence of TFA

Piece of advice, read multiple sources before forming an opinion.


Fox News

IBN

BBC

Thanks for the condescending, unsolicited advise.

My opinion hasn't changed.
 
2013-10-03 01:28:07 PM  

dangelder: Tommy Moo: I just had an idea: what if we did for cars what they do for street cars? Just have a tax everyone pays to have the roads themselves electrified. You wouldn't have to do it every ten feet or anything, just once per mile there could be a plate on the ground that, when you drive over it, puts a mile's worth of juice back into your battery. You'd have leads dragging from your undercarriage that would gently scrape the plates. You'd be refueling F-Zero style.

It would only work when we get everyone on board, so there's a legitimate cost/benefit ratio, but if all cars become electric in the future, this is one solution to the range anxiety problem.


Adding solar panels to cars is the real solution to the range problem. Storage could be reduced, too, lowering the weight, thus increasing the range and the danger (less onboard energy). With a small mower engine, tuned to a specific RPM, for back-up, the mass can be cut even more. Making cars alone electric would solve a lot of the global warming and fuel-shortage problems.
 
2013-10-03 01:45:14 PM  

Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: Beer cap: Uranus Is Huge!: SlothB77: A fire that destroyed a Tesla electric car near Seattle began in the vehicle's battery pack

first sentence of TFA

was caused by a large metallic object hitting one of the battery pack's modules

second sentence of TFA

Piece of advice, read multiple sources before forming an opinion.

Fox News

IBN

BBC

Thanks for the condescending, unsolicited advise.

My opinion hasn't changed.

So you're going to ignore the countless stories that say that officers found no debris in the road?

Question, how does Tesla know what happened already when they don't even have the car in their possession?


Aren't Teslas always connected to the mothership? I thought that's how they got their battery performance data.
 
2013-10-03 01:45:46 PM  

Beer cap: I don't understand why companies are still so focused on electric vehicles when hydrogen powered is the future. Electric is so 30 years ago. Hybrids are a nice stop gap, but stop wasting time on tech that won't have a reason to exist in another 20 years.


Not sure if serious.

All hydrogen powered cars seriously being investigated for market are fuel cell vehicles. There simply isn't any advantage (and lots of cost disadvantages) to running hydrogen through standard combustion engines.

All fuel cell cars are necessarily electric, and necessarily would have battery packs (albeit smaller than a full EV would require).

Fuel cell vehicles are almost as bad as fusion power: They've been promised for years but nobody's managed to deliver the goods beyond concept stage. Unlike fusion, though, their problem is more cost than technical feasibility.

There is still a problem about where the hydrogen comes from in the first place. It's not really that getting it is the hard part, but your options are either methane reformation (releases tons of CO2) or electrolysis (and people complain that we can't generate the power for EVs?) Both of these are perfectly doable but it's costly. Then there's the infrastructure issue - you can count the number of publicly accessible hydrogen fueling stations in the US on your hands... and all except one is in California.

Meanwhile, nearly every occupied building in the country has electricity.
=Smidge=
 
2013-10-03 01:47:13 PM  
I'm pretty sure I'm not one pushing an agenda in this thread.
 
2013-10-03 01:56:29 PM  

Rindred: All this, and no mention yet of the MDI Autos AirCar, the one with a fuel source that won't result in car fires?


Tata has been promising one for years now, without delivering.
 
2013-10-03 02:03:01 PM  

Tommy Moo: just once per mile there could be a plate on the ground that, when you drive over it, puts a mile's worth of juice back into your battery.


Once we have batteries that can charge that fast, it won't be necessary.
 
2013-10-03 02:04:43 PM  

TheBigJerk: Electric's limitations are torque


OK, you should stop talking now.
 
2013-10-03 02:17:25 PM  

Loren: Yeah.  I think we have a good model in trains--fuel provides the power but the drive is electric.  The presence of the battery pack allows going even farther--there's no need for it to be an IC engine.  There are other engines that are more efficient but their throttle control is too slow.  If you can make up for that slow throttle control by drawing from a battery for a bit--100mpg wouldn't surprise me.


A friend of mine makes and sells a system like that.  An ultra efficient wankel tuned to run at the speed at which it is most efficient.  Hooked to a generator that charges the battery.  The whole system basically fits in the spare tire well, and can run an EV sedan indefinitely.
 
2013-10-03 02:22:36 PM  

Beer cap: I don't understand why companies are still so focused on electric vehicles when hydrogen powered is the future. Electric is so 30 years ago. Hybrids are a nice stop gap, but stop wasting time on tech that won't have a reason to exist in another 20 years.


List the advantages of Hydrogen.

/There's only one and it will be a moot point in 10 years.
 
2013-10-03 02:28:34 PM  

mjones73: AngryDragon: Can someone explain to me why the Tesla has such rabid followers and the Volt and Leaf are such political hot potatoes?

Tesla built something that's electric and actually looks nice to drive, the Volt and Lead, not so much...

Which would you rather drive...
[sites.psu.edu image 850x566] [media.wbur.org image 850x519] [stwot.motortrend.com image 850x531]


yes because the model S has the same affordability factor as the Leaf or Volt.
 
2013-10-03 02:33:55 PM  

Hollie Maea: Beer cap: I don't understand why companies are still so focused on electric vehicles when hydrogen powered is the future. Electric is so 30 years ago. Hybrids are a nice stop gap, but stop wasting time on tech that won't have a reason to exist in another 20 years.

List the advantages of Hydrogen.


It burns brightly in the presence of obvious sarcasm.
 
2013-10-03 02:54:14 PM  

Xcott: Hollie Maea: Beer cap: I don't understand why companies are still so focused on electric vehicles when hydrogen powered is the future. Electric is so 30 years ago. Hybrids are a nice stop gap, but stop wasting time on tech that won't have a reason to exist in another 20 years.

List the advantages of Hydrogen.

It burns brightly in the presence of obvious sarcasm.


Maybe sarcasm, but I hear these exact same talking points all the time from people who are serious about it.
 
2013-10-03 03:09:08 PM  

Beer cap: So you're going to ignore the countless stories that say that officers found no debris in the road?


Of course not, it was embedded into the battery and then burned up with it! If it were still in the road, it probably wouldn't have been able to cause the problem in the first place...
 
2013-10-03 03:23:28 PM  

Hollie Maea: Xcott: Hollie Maea: Beer cap: I don't understand why companies are still so focused on electric vehicles when hydrogen powered is the future. Electric is so 30 years ago. Hybrids are a nice stop gap, but stop wasting time on tech that won't have a reason to exist in another 20 years.

List the advantages of Hydrogen.

It burns brightly in the presence of obvious sarcasm.

Maybe sarcasm, but I hear these exact same talking points all the time from people who are serious about it.


Being seriously stupid is not, unfortunately, uncommon.
 
2013-10-03 05:07:40 PM  
so... a guy crashed into something and broke his car, then the car told him something was wrong and that he needed to get out, and then after he got out it caught fire... and the car isn't safe?
 
2013-10-03 05:15:54 PM  
I've personally witnessed around half a dozen conventional cars engulfed in flames and none of those were even involved in collisions. Stored energy is potentially hazardous, whether gasoline or batteries. I'm not too worried, I'd still drive a Tesla if I could afford one.
 
2013-10-03 05:23:38 PM  

Peki: nocturnal001: I would imagine adding some sort of automatic fire suppression system might make sense if they are unable to make the batteries sturdier.

ACK! Weight!

Good luck with that and trying to make the EPA's MPG guidelines.


I always carry a fire extinguisher in my gasoline powered car. It happens all the time and honestly I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often than it does. All it takes is a small leak in the pressurized fuel line to squirt a bit of fuel on the hot exhaust manifold and the car is engulfed within moments of seeing flames.
 
2013-10-03 05:32:51 PM  

James10952001: I've personally witnessed around half a dozen conventional cars engulfed in flames and none of those were even involved in collisions. Stored energy is potentially hazardous, whether gasoline or batteries. I'm not too worried, I'd still drive a Tesla if I could afford one.


Most car fires aren't from fuel leaks as very few cars have part hot enough to ignite a fuel leak. However, some shade tree mechanic putting aftermarket electronics in and not including a fuse, then said wiring grounds out is a different story. I'd be willing to bet the majority of vehicle fires start from bad wiring.
 
2013-10-03 07:55:46 PM  

MadMattressMack: James10952001: I've personally witnessed around half a dozen conventional cars engulfed in flames and none of those were even involved in collisions. Stored energy is potentially hazardous, whether gasoline or batteries. I'm not too worried, I'd still drive a Tesla if I could afford one.

Most car fires aren't from fuel leaks as very few cars have part hot enough to ignite a fuel leak. However, some shade tree mechanic putting aftermarket electronics in and not including a fuse, then said wiring grounds out is a different story. I'd be willing to bet the majority of vehicle fires start from bad wiring.


This. It's also the second leading cause of bad brake lights, aside from bad bulbs. My ex-boss wouldn't touch the wiring on a car if your brakes were out and you had an aftermarket stereo (mechanic's nightmare, plus he was an r-tard who didn't know how to charge for diagnostics).

James10952001: Peki: nocturnal001: I would imagine adding some sort of automatic fire suppression system might make sense if they are unable to make the batteries sturdier.

ACK! Weight!

Good luck with that and trying to make the EPA's MPG guidelines.

I always carry a fire extinguisher in my gasoline powered car. It happens all the time and honestly I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often than it does. All it takes is a small leak in the pressurized fuel line to squirt a bit of fuel on the hot exhaust manifold and the car is engulfed within moments of seeing flames.


Not that. Do you know what pressure fuel lines are rated to? They rarely fail. I'd be willing to bet what you're calling fuel fires are more likely trans fluid (which is highly flammable, just get a few drops on a hot exhaust manifold) or oil or some other fluid. Not gas. And you'll smell it before you're likely to catch fire. Liquid gas is hard to ignite, which is why a car has fuel injectors that vaporize the fuel to make it easier to burn.

Keep talking though. This is entertaining.
 
2013-10-03 08:21:45 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: If by "puddle" you mean "large metallic object" and by "drives through" you mean "collided with" then this headline is...

... still not in any way accurate.


This is why I like to check the first few comments before reading an article.
 
2013-10-03 11:19:51 PM  
If I bump into a large metallic object on a wet day, it will damage my car's paint job and maybe suspension, but it won't suddenly combust the way a Tesla will, thanks to those Lithium-Ion batteries. I'll stick with my car.
 
2013-10-04 02:34:55 AM  

HotWingAgenda: If I bump into a large metallic object on a wet day, it will damage my car's paint job and maybe suspension, but it won't suddenly combust the way a Tesla will, thanks to those Lithium-Ion batteries. I'll stick with my car.



"If I bump into a large metallic object on a wet day, it will damage my buggy's stain and possibly startle my horse, but it won't suddenly burst into flame the way an automotive will, thanks to that 'gasoline' it runs on.  I'll stick with my buggy."

- Ernest Rumpleforth the 3rd,  c1914
 
2013-10-04 05:18:23 AM  

Hollie Maea: A friend of mine makes and sells a system like that. An ultra efficient wankel tuned to run at the speed at which it is most efficient. Hooked to a generator that charges the battery. The whole system basically fits in the spare tire well, and can run an EV sedan indefinitely.


Do you have a link to their website?
 
2013-10-04 09:19:30 AM  

flondrix: Hollie Maea: A friend of mine makes and sells a system like that. An ultra efficient wankel tuned to run at the speed at which it is most efficient. Hooked to a generator that charges the battery. The whole system basically fits in the spare tire well, and can run an EV sedan indefinitely.

Do you have a link to their website?


www.evdrive.com
 
2013-10-04 12:09:26 PM  
Didn't an electric car help hijack one of the planes that flew into the World Trade Centers?
 
2013-10-04 03:55:26 PM  

Night Night Cream Puff: TheYeti: Night Night Cream Puff:
Base Model S is $70k
Base Mercedes S Class $90k
Base BMW M5 $90k

The Telsa S P85 would probably be closer to those in performance, etc.  A friend of mine has a deposit on one and keeps going back and forth over whether wants to buy it.  In any case,  I sat in a Telsa S a couple of weekends ago and it seems like an awful lot of car for the money.  Well, at least sitting still...I didn't get to drive it.

Good point. Have to revise the Model S up to $81-82k (pre-tax credit), which still puts it below the others in terms of cost. One article I was reading put it in the same luxury class as the S Class so I was just taking the most basic model in class. Another aritcle put the BMW 7 series in the same class instead of the M5 which makes sense too.


Just one little rational jibe, here.
Eighty to ninety THOUSAND DOLLARS!
FARK me! If that is disposable income to so many people, WTF is the color of your sky?

What has happened to ya'll that spending that amount of dough for a farking car seems ok, rational, just fine, whatever, even if you have it?
That amount of money can change lives, lots of lives.
Or pay for Park Rangers in open air National Parks.
 
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