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(CNN)   Could Obamacare crash the system? Or, in non-CNN parlance: you may have to wait a little longer for an appointment   (cnn.com) divider line 104
    More: Obvious, obamacare, doctor shortage, American Academy of Family Physicians, medical residents, Association of American Medical Colleges, primary care physicians, CARE Act, Massachusetts Medical Society  
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595 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Oct 2013 at 6:25 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-02 06:01:51 PM
more people with health care means more people who have to see doctors?  you don't say!
 
2013-10-02 06:04:02 PM
The obvious solution to this is to accredit more medical schools, not deny people health care.
 
2013-10-02 06:10:43 PM

ManateeGag: more people with health care means more people who have to see doctors?  you don't say!


But it's bad, you see, because socialism.
 
2013-10-02 06:13:34 PM
Several elderly hard core GOP supporters in my neighborhood tried logging in today.  Shortly afterward an FBI van showed up and arrested them all for hacking.  Said they were mounting something call a "Denial of Cerval" attack.  These poor old folks were trying to sign up for Obamacare and no one told them they needed exotic cats.  So it figures they had to be a catch to this health care thing.

Pass it on.
 
2013-10-02 06:16:40 PM

DamnYankees: The obvious solution to this is to accredit more medical schools, not deny people health care.


The disparity in pay between a GP and a specialist is shocking.

This situation was brought about by - wait for it - the way we health insurers are allowed to structure reimbursement.

Remember when HBOs were supposed to support "wellness visits"?  It was going to be paradise.  And what we were actually sold was GPs being reimbursed pennies on the dollar of a specialist.

So if anyone wishes to continue with the present system, by all means, let's not regulate the ever loving shiat out of the health insurance companies.
 
2013-10-02 06:17:48 PM

DamnYankees: The obvious solution to this is to accredit more medical schools, not deny people health care.


Ya, more medical schools will result in more doctors.  And more doctors means lower pay for each of the doctors.  Why do you hate America?  Who are you?  Stalin?
 
2013-10-02 06:24:59 PM

netizencain: DamnYankees: The obvious solution to this is to accredit more medical schools, not deny people health care.

Ya, more medical schools will result in more doctors.  And more doctors means lower pay for each of the doctors.  Why do you hate America?  Who are you?  Stalin?


He sounds more like Pol Pot to me.
 
2013-10-02 06:24:59 PM

netizencain: DamnYankees: The obvious solution to this is to accredit more medical schools, not deny people health care.

Ya, more medical schools will result in more doctors.  And more doctors means lower pay for each of the doctors.  Why do you hate America?  Who are you?  Stalin?


It's the free market in action. Why do you hate capitalism?
 
2013-10-02 06:27:22 PM
You mean I'll have an even longer wait for the doctor's appointments I already don't go to because my insurance still sucks because it was a grandfathered plan?
 
2013-10-02 06:28:41 PM
"People turn to the ER because they have no other place to go after hours or they don't have access to a level of appropriate primary care," Stanton said. "The ER has become the safety net of our health care system. We can't turn anyone away like a doctor's office could. ... I worry though with (Obamacare) this will significantly increase patient volume."

Umm, hello? If people had health insurance, they wouldn't have to go to the ER as a safety net. Your personal workload should drop.
 
2013-10-02 06:29:26 PM
More foreign doctors from inferior medical schools that you won't be able to understand is the answer..
 
2013-10-02 06:30:41 PM
Parlance?

I request that verbosity for verbosity's raison d'être should be bethrown at costum maga.

One tends to be perceived with neural entries of pomposity that accumulates in the cerveau encephala
 
2013-10-02 06:30:42 PM
So, basically, this is what happened when the GOP decided to shut things down.
 
2013-10-02 06:31:32 PM
but you make an appointment!

how about just scheduling you appointment 15mins later?

.

seriously, this is non stop B.S. when do we get real news with real stories that actually happened not just some jackass asking questions.

/makes for a boring day :(
 
2013-10-02 06:33:30 PM

oryx: More foreign doctors from inferior medical schools that you won't be able to understand is the answer..


The foreign doctors by and large are mostly specialists.  They've been trained very cheaply yes yes and take advantage of that fact.  They're taking jobs away from Americans who end up being your "nurse practitioner".  "Nurse practitioner" being a nice way of saying you're not seeing a real doctor because one cannot afford to see you for a paltry $42 and change.
 
2013-10-02 06:34:09 PM

ImpendingCynic: "People turn to the ER because they have no other place to go after hours or they don't have access to a level of appropriate primary care," Stanton said. "The ER has become the safety net of our health care system. We can't turn anyone away like a doctor's office could. ... I worry though with (Obamacare) this will significantly increase patient volume."

Umm, hello? If people had health insurance, they wouldn't have to go to the ER as a safety net. Your personal workload should drop.


Not always; my wife's GP diagnosed her with a blood clot in her leg, and told her she needed to go to the local hospital ER immediately, as they had a more precise test available that could determine how severe the clot was. I had to leave work early, go pick her up and take her to the ER, where we sat for 4 hours until they could see her. The doctor spent about 15 minutes with her, ran no tests, told her she didn't have a blood clot, and sent us on our way. The bill arrived later; over $800 for a 4 hour wait and a 15 minute 'exam'.
 
2013-10-02 06:35:33 PM

cman: Parlance?

I request that verbosity for verbosity's raison d'être should be bethrown at costum maga.

One tends to be perceived with neural entries of pomposity that accumulates in the cerveau encephala


Really? I find a smattering of grandiloquence lends an ineffable sublimity to otherwise pedestrian proclamations, natch.
 
2013-10-02 06:36:20 PM

ManateeGag: more people with health care means more people who have to see doctors?  you don't say!


And less people in the ER.

So it should all even out.
 
2013-10-02 06:37:13 PM
I think it was Politico who insinuated we might need to go back to allowing pre-existing condition loopholes and strip away the healthcare coverage from tens of millions of people because one of the states didn't have a pulldown menu on their online site working properly on Day 1 rollout.
 
2013-10-02 06:37:15 PM

cman: Parlance?

I request that verbosity for verbosity's raison d'être should be bethrown at costum maga.

One tends to be perceived with neural entries of pomposity that accumulates in the cerveau encephala


Magnum cerveau encephala, you mean.  Magnum cerveau encephala .
 
2013-10-02 06:37:41 PM

Marcus Aurelius: DamnYankees: The obvious solution to this is to accredit more medical schools, not deny people health care.

The disparity in pay between a GP and a specialist is shocking.

This situation was brought about by - wait for it - the way we health insurers are allowed to structure reimbursement.

Remember when HBOs were supposed to support "wellness visits"?  It was going to be paradise.  And what we were actually sold was GPs being reimbursed pennies on the dollar of a specialist.

So if anyone wishes to continue with the present system, by all means, let's not regulate the ever loving shiat out of the health insurance companies.


The doctors' billings have to show time spent with each patient?
 
2013-10-02 06:38:02 PM
Saw this in the comments:

Prior to October 1, we had 50 million uninsured Americans using the ER for free healthcare. Guess who paid for it?
After October 1st, we have 50 million insured Americans not using the ER for free healthcare. Guess who saves from it?


Only 3% of those new people enrolled in healthcare will receive Medicare. That's a small price to pay for getting the freeloaders out of the Emergency room. If you think you are having a heart attack it doesn't matter how rich you are. You go to the ER. You are much better off not having to take a number behind 50 people.
There's no more time to debate this. We had the debate. Obama gave Republicans a year to come up with an alternative plan. They had nothing. Had Romney put his same plan forward before Obama we would all be talking about how great this is and Republicans could get back to attacking gays and immigrants.
 
2013-10-02 06:38:45 PM

Bendal: ImpendingCynic: "People turn to the ER because they have no other place to go after hours or they don't have access to a level of appropriate primary care," Stanton said. "The ER has become the safety net of our health care system. We can't turn anyone away like a doctor's office could. ... I worry though with (Obamacare) this will significantly increase patient volume."

Umm, hello? If people had health insurance, they wouldn't have to go to the ER as a safety net. Your personal workload should drop.

Not always; my wife's GP diagnosed her with a blood clot in her leg, and told her she needed to go to the local hospital ER immediately, as they had a more precise test available that could determine how severe the clot was. I had to leave work early, go pick her up and take her to the ER, where we sat for 4 hours until they could see her. The doctor spent about 15 minutes with her, ran no tests, told her she didn't have a blood clot, and sent us on our way. The bill arrived later; over $800 for a 4 hour wait and a 15 minute 'exam'.


I think that the point was you waited for 4 hours because others did not have the insurance to receive preventative treatment / the ER is used as non-emergency medical care.
 
2013-10-02 06:39:53 PM
1) It already takes six weeks for me to schedule an annual.  Emergencies my GP takes them right away.  No problem with that and I don't see that changing.

2) It's not where you went to medical school, it's where you did your residency that matters - We need more foreign docs to complete their residency in the States and stay here.

3) More medical schools equals accepting less qualified students, but hey...

4) If we increased the pay to GPs, we would have a much better healthcare system

/Worked at two different medical schools for the last twenty years.
 
2013-10-02 06:40:50 PM

Bendal: ImpendingCynic: "People turn to the ER because they have no other place to go after hours or they don't have access to a level of appropriate primary care," Stanton said. "The ER has become the safety net of our health care system. We can't turn anyone away like a doctor's office could. ... I worry though with (Obamacare) this will significantly increase patient volume."

Umm, hello? If people had health insurance, they wouldn't have to go to the ER as a safety net. Your personal workload should drop.

Not always; my wife's GP diagnosed her with a blood clot in her leg, and told her she needed to go to the local hospital ER immediately, as they had a more precise test available that could determine how severe the clot was. I had to leave work early, go pick her up and take her to the ER, where we sat for 4 hours until they could see her. The doctor spent about 15 minutes with her, ran no tests, told her she didn't have a blood clot, and sent us on our way. The bill arrived later; over $800 for a 4 hour wait and a 15 minute 'exam'.


Kind of missing the point. The ER doc said they're already too busy because people don't have primary care and use the ER as a safety net. If everyone had insurance, most of that would shift elsewhere, and the ER would be for genuine emergencies.

Yes, I too have had my GP send me to the ER. And you got off easy - my bill was $15,000 for a 6 hour visit. Fortunately I had good insurance.
 
2013-10-02 06:41:38 PM

Marcus Aurelius: oryx: More foreign doctors from inferior medical schools that you won't be able to understand is the answer..

The foreign doctors by and large are mostly specialists. They've been trained very cheaply yes yes and take advantage of that fact. They're taking jobs away from Americans who end up being your "nurse practitioner". "Nurse practitioner" being a nice way of saying you're not seeing a real doctor because one cannot afford to see you for a paltry $42 and change.


In the average doctor's office, given the choice between seeing the NP or the MD, I'll take the NP every time
 
2013-10-02 06:42:39 PM
But CNN, enough about this irrelevant shutdown/Obamacare stuff. Why aren't you reporting about the truly important questions facing this nation?

Like "Will Michael Jackson's promoters be held liable for his death?"

INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!!
 
2013-10-02 06:44:05 PM

Bontesla: Bendal: ImpendingCynic: "People turn to the ER because they have no other place to go after hours or they don't have access to a level of appropriate primary care," Stanton said. "The ER has become the safety net of our health care system. We can't turn anyone away like a doctor's office could. ... I worry though with (Obamacare) this will significantly increase patient volume."

Umm, hello? If people had health insurance, they wouldn't have to go to the ER as a safety net. Your personal workload should drop.

Not always; my wife's GP diagnosed her with a blood clot in her leg, and told her she needed to go to the local hospital ER immediately, as they had a more precise test available that could determine how severe the clot was. I had to leave work early, go pick her up and take her to the ER, where we sat for 4 hours until they could see her. The doctor spent about 15 minutes with her, ran no tests, told her she didn't have a blood clot, and sent us on our way. The bill arrived later; over $800 for a 4 hour wait and a 15 minute 'exam'.

I think that the point was you waited for 4 hours because others did not have the insurance to receive preventative treatment / the ER is used as non-emergency medical care.


And your ER doctor put in a half arse effort looking at your wife because he's  overwhelmed treating an army of uninsured people using him as their de-facto GP.
 
2013-10-02 06:44:41 PM

ManateeGag: more people with health care means more people who have to see doctors?  you don't say!


You mean the people who were not on healthcare before never had to see doctors before? Because they had no healthcare they were just magically never ill?
 
2013-10-02 06:47:10 PM

spiderpaz: Saw this in the comments:

Prior to October 1, we had 50 million uninsured Americans using the ER for free healthcare. Guess who paid for it?
After October 1st, we have 50 million insured Americans not using the ER for free healthcare. Guess who saves from it?

Only 3% of those new people enrolled in healthcare will receive Medicare. That's a small price to pay for getting the freeloaders out of the Emergency room. If you think you are having a heart attack it doesn't matter how rich you are. You go to the ER. You are much better off not having to take a number behind 50 people.
There's no more time to debate this. We had the debate. Obama gave Republicans a year to come up with an alternative plan. They had nothing. Had Romney put his same plan forward before Obama we would all be talking about how great this is and Republicans could get back to attacking gays and immigrants.


This.

Needs to be repeated.
 
2013-10-02 06:48:25 PM
Nationalize malpractice insurance and "Non-paying-patient" coverage.  Healthcare would be solved in a year.
 
2013-10-02 06:49:06 PM
DamnYankees

  The obvious solution to this is to accredit more medical schools, not deny people health care.

To help me bootstrap my new popcorn side business,  I'd like to take this Republican / Democratic fight and toss into it a feminist / non-feminist battle. One of the real problems is women taking precious places in medical programs and then going part-time after having kids, or retiring early to work on their pinterest boards.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-02 06:50:20 PM

InmanRoshi: Bontesla: Bendal: ImpendingCynic: "People turn to the ER because they have no other place to go after hours or they don't have access to a level of appropriate primary care," Stanton said. "The ER has become the safety net of our health care system. We can't turn anyone away like a doctor's office could. ... I worry though with (Obamacare) this will significantly increase patient volume."

Umm, hello? If people had health insurance, they wouldn't have to go to the ER as a safety net. Your personal workload should drop.

Not always; my wife's GP diagnosed her with a blood clot in her leg, and told her she needed to go to the local hospital ER immediately, as they had a more precise test available that could determine how severe the clot was. I had to leave work early, go pick her up and take her to the ER, where we sat for 4 hours until they could see her. The doctor spent about 15 minutes with her, ran no tests, told her she didn't have a blood clot, and sent us on our way. The bill arrived later; over $800 for a 4 hour wait and a 15 minute 'exam'.

I think that the point was you waited for 4 hours because others did not have the insurance to receive preventative treatment / the ER is used as non-emergency medical care.

And your ER doctor put in a half arse effort looking at your wife because he's  overwhelmed treating an army of uninsured people using him as their de-facto GP.


Pretty much.

Obamacare can, theoretically, help reduce the ER strains.
 
2013-10-02 06:50:52 PM
I guess it's a really popular program, huh?
 
2013-10-02 06:53:41 PM

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: The doctors' billings have to show time spent with each patient?


The system was called "capitation", at least in the beginning.  The idea was that the insurance company would pay a "primary care physician" X dollars a month for each patient covered.  Period.  End of story.  If the physician was a good physician, they would keep their patients healthy and not have to see them so much and make a fortune.

We can see how that ended.  The "good" doctors have closed enrollment.
 
2013-10-02 06:55:24 PM

RoyBatty: DamnYankees

  The obvious solution to this is to accredit more medical schools, not deny people health care.

To help me bootstrap my new popcorn side business,  I'd like to take this Republican / Democratic fight and toss into it a feminist / non-feminist battle. One of the real problems is women taking precious places in medical programs and then going part-time after having kids, or retiring early to work on their pinterest boards.

[i.imgur.com image 478x1074]


Yes, conservatives the world round aren't too keen on women working. What's your point? The citation you gave is the Parliamentary equivalent to Tea Party blather, not an actual study.
 
2013-10-02 06:55:37 PM
My mom was already having a hard time finding a new doctor for Medicare.  My Dr. stopped taking patients years ago and if he retires I am in some  trouble.

/But I think that demand will encourage more to become internal medicine dr's , I would not want to deny people care either.
 
2013-10-02 06:58:08 PM

Yogimus: "Non-paying-patient" coverage


That's the UK's health care system in a nutshell.  You walk in, they give you what you need, and then you walk out.

I was sick in the UK once.  I was highly enlightened by the experience.

I'd go for that any day.
 
2013-10-02 06:58:33 PM

ManateeGag: more people with health care means more people who have to see doctors?  you don't say!


Actually, this is false.  There are no more nor less people who are in need of medical attention.

There are more people who *can* go see the doctor, without using the ER system.  However, the number of sick and injured people has not changed.
 
2013-10-02 06:58:36 PM

DamnYankees: The obvious solution to this is to accredit more medical schools, not deny people health care.


Wat??
Moar doctors??

You may be on to something there
 
2013-10-02 06:59:55 PM

Snapper Carr: In the average doctor's office, given the choice between seeing the NP or the MD, I'll take the NP every time


In the average office, you're probably right.  But they'll still be pushing Flonase at you.

I've been seeing the same doctor since 1982, and I don't know what I'll do when he retires.
 
2013-10-02 07:01:50 PM

Marcus Aurelius: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: The doctors' billings have to show time spent with each patient?

The system was called "capitation", at least in the beginning.  The idea was that the insurance company would pay a "primary care physician" X dollars a month for each patient covered.  Period.  End of story.  If the physician was a good physician, they would keep their patients healthy and not have to see them so much and make a fortune.

We can see how that ended.  The "good" doctors have closed enrollment.


Citation, please.
 
2013-10-02 07:02:04 PM

riverwalk barfly: 1) It already takes six weeks for me to schedule an annual.  Emergencies my GP takes them right away.  No problem with that and I don't see that changing.--

If your GP can handle it, it's not an emergency.

2) It's not where you went to medical school, it's where you did your residency that matters - We need more foreign docs to complete their residency in the States and stay here.-- Yes

3) More medical schools equals accepting less qualified students, but hey...- If they can't pass they don't
 become doctors. It's an MD, not a BA.


4) If we increased the pay to GPs, we would have a much better healthcare system-- No. If you raised the pay of the ancillary workers like nurses, EMS, the tech that sticks the thermometer in your butt, the ones that actually provide health care then we would have a better healthcare system.

/Worked at two different medical schools for the last twenty years.
 
2013-10-02 07:04:06 PM

spiderpaz: Saw this in the comments:

Prior to October 1, we had 50 million uninsured Americans using the ER for free healthcare. Guess who paid for it?
After October 1st, we have 50 million insured Americans not using the ER for free healthcare. Guess who saves from it?

Only 3% of those new people enrolled in healthcare will receive Medicare. That's a small price to pay for getting the freeloaders out of the Emergency room. If you think you are having a heart attack it doesn't matter how rich you are. You go to the ER. You are much better off not having to take a number behind 50 people.
There's no more time to debate this. We had the debate. Obama gave Republicans a year to come up with an alternative plan. They had nothing. Had Romney put his same plan forward before Obama we would all be talking about how great this is and Republicans could get back to attacking gays and immigrants.


This hasn't been debated enough. And the courts have yet to rule on its constitionality

amidoinitrite?
 
2013-10-02 07:06:22 PM

Kuroshin: ManateeGag: more people with health care means more people who have to see doctors?  you don't say!

Actually, this is false.  There are no more nor less people who are in need of medical attention.

There are more people who *can* go see the doctor, without using the ER system.  However, the number of sick and injured people has not changed.


It would increase the number of visits to fix/find "minor" problems that otherwise people would just put up with (some completely unnoticeable, like non-fatty high cholesterol), but hopefully that results in a decrease in the major problems that can often occur from ignoring the minor ones.
 
2013-10-02 07:06:35 PM

ManateeGag: more people with health care means more people who have to see doctors?  you don't say!


Yet somehow Canadians, the French, English, etc, keep living longer than Americans.
 
2013-10-02 07:07:44 PM
If more people are going to doctors, resulting in longer lines at clinics, then more people will become doctors thus creating high paying skilled labor.

Not to mention that doctor will need a nurse, secretary, IT, etc.
 
2013-10-02 07:08:26 PM

spiderpaz: Saw this in the comments:

Prior to October 1, we had 50 million uninsured Americans using the ER for free healthcare. Guess who paid for it?
After October 1st, we have 50 million insured Americans not using the ER for free healthcare. Guess who saves from it?


Only 3% of those new people enrolled in healthcare will receive Medicare. That's a small price to pay for getting the freeloaders out of the Emergency room. If you think you are having a heart attack it doesn't matter how rich you are. You go to the ER. You are much better off not having to take a number behind 50 people.
There's no more time to debate this. We had the debate. Obama gave Republicans a year to come up with an alternative plan. They had nothing. Had Romney put his same plan forward before Obama we would all be talking about how great this is and Republicans could get back to attacking gays and immigrants.


Just posted this in my FB feed.
 
2013-10-02 07:09:07 PM

KeatingFive: Marcus Aurelius: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: The doctors' billings have to show time spent with each patient?

The system was called "capitation", at least in the beginning.  The idea was that the insurance company would pay a "primary care physician" X dollars a month for each patient covered.  Period.  End of story.  If the physician was a good physician, they would keep their patients healthy and not have to see them so much and make a fortune.

We can see how that ended.  The "good" doctors have closed enrollment.

Citation, please.


Real life experience.  Call any noted GP office out of the blue and ask if they will see you.

I triple dog dare you.
 
2013-10-02 07:11:41 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Yogimus: "Non-paying-patient" coverage

That's the UK's health care system in a nutshell.  You walk in, they give you what you need, and then you walk out.

I was sick in the UK once.  I was highly enlightened by the experience.

I'd go for that any day.


France has a good setup as well. I gave myself a serious forearm burn on a motorcycle muffler in Nice. In the US that's an ER visit. In France you can go to any local pharmacy. $20 got it cleaned and bandaged by the pharmacist, with extra bandages and ointment for later.
 
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