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(io9)   "Extreme human longevity would not pose threat to planet" claims author who has never heard of how much damage people with today's average lifespan can do already   (io9.com) divider line 54
    More: Unlikely, radiation damages, E.O. Wilson, malthusian, human biology, Green Revolution, longevity, social institutions, sustainable agriculture  
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702 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Oct 2013 at 6:57 PM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-02 06:26:31 PM
Time to summon He Who Must Not Be Named.
 
2013-10-02 06:33:46 PM
Longer human lifespans would be an unmitigated disaster without an equivalent drop in birth rate. In other words, it would be an unmitigated disaster.
 
2013-10-02 07:02:16 PM
Not only should we colonize as much of the universe as possible, we should simultaneously increase our life-spans to near immortality.

/ There, that oughta do it.
 
2013-10-02 07:11:45 PM
Universal immortality is equivalent to an increase of children-per-woman of 2, which is not insurmountable provided that a demographic shift occurs at the same time. The main problem with the demographic shift, an aging population, in conveniently avoided by immortality.

However, if a demographic shift does not occur, then you basically have the problem of colonial India, which experienced a sudden drop in child mortality thanks to the British Empire but not a corresponding change in the culture. Hence, massive reduction in per-capital wealth. (Ironically, often blamed on the Empire. Lesson is, don't help poor peoples or you'll make things worse in the long run.)
 
2013-10-02 07:12:43 PM
My guess is that is ain't gonna happen.. or we need to pass laws now that state that anybody that is biologically immortal or receiving medical treatment that renders them biologically immortal have the bejezzus taxed out of them, not an income tax but an asset tax.  Lets say 5% of total assets per year.
 
2013-10-02 07:13:13 PM
I like how the author of TFA handwaves issues like food and energy production and population control, says he'll answer the questions on how we'll do it, and then goes on to handwave them again with "We'll have better tech that will solve those issues. Hell we'll just Terraform Mars and Venus!"

I'm not so sure our favorite retard will like this guy. He points to 3D printing and space colonization as part of the solutions to the problems that will arise from stopping aging.
 
2013-10-02 07:15:04 PM

lifeboat: Not only should we colonize as much of the universe as possible, we should simultaneously increase our life-spans to near immortality.

/ There, that oughta do it.


Exactly. Immortality on this planet alone would destroy whatever semblance of balance we have left. But immortality with multiple worlds to colonize wouldn't be an issue at all. And hell, maybe fixing the aging problem would finally be the kick in the pants we would need to stop dragging our feet and get our asses to space.
 
2013-10-02 07:20:31 PM
Theoretically, if you increase human lifespan, we start making better long term decisions.

In reality, only the wealthiest could afford it, and they tend to not have huge families anyways.

We need to successfully get off planet first though.
 
2013-10-02 07:22:38 PM
Oh boy.
 
2013-10-02 07:29:39 PM
Breed like rabbits and live longer active lifetimes?  Oh yeah, there's nothing wrong with that math.
 
2013-10-02 07:30:39 PM
Oh, and Aasimov did it:

literarylivewire.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-10-02 07:31:14 PM
GAH!  Stupid stuck keys again!!!  More beer shall fix this!
 
2013-10-02 07:38:48 PM
Man, just imagine the impact that would have the dating game. Hell, the impact on sitcoms.

"Coming this fall: he's thirty-five hundred and seventeen, and she's just barely nine hundred. Can they make it work? Watch the hijinks on 'Intermillennial Marriage'!"
 
2013-10-02 07:39:32 PM
It's not our longevity, it's our consumption.

If nothing else changed, adding 1 billion "average humans" wouldn't harm the planet nearly as much as 1 billion existing non-Americans starting to consume like Americans do.
 
2013-10-02 07:40:38 PM
Oh, hey, the "life extension" nutter hasn't shown up yet. This has got to be like catnip for him or her...
 
2013-10-02 07:42:48 PM
Kuroshin:

Oh, and Aasimov did it:

Also, more beer shall fix most things.

Like so many things in the Clarke / Asimov competition, Clarke did it first with "The Question." A short wherein researchers on a lunar colony find that life is extended tenfold in lowered gravity.

No word yet on whether there were immortal atoms involved, or whether their mom was still bringing them pizza bagels.
 
2013-10-02 07:44:19 PM
Not my idea but a decent one: Require that women of childbearing age who want to be on welfare have an IUD inserted. Go off welfare, get it removed ( if they want). Want a lifetime of even more freebies? Opt for sterilization. This plus education and oddly enough- soap operas in poor, rural areas with high birthrates  (again, not my idea- women see that the stars on the soap operas don't have 19 kids and they try to emulate them) will help bring about sustainability..
 
2013-10-02 07:46:41 PM

vossiewulf: Longer human lifespans would be an unmitigated disaster without an equivalent drop in birth rate. In other words, it would be an unmitigated disaster.


Nah...you just put them together.  Want your longevity pill? Here you go, and here is your sterilization pill.  Want to pop out some kids? Go for it, and enjoy your three score and ten years.
 
2013-10-02 07:56:20 PM

Hollie Maea: vossiewulf: Longer human lifespans would be an unmitigated disaster without an equivalent drop in birth rate. In other words, it would be an unmitigated disaster.

Nah...you just put them together.  Want your longevity pill? Here you go, and here is your sterilization pill.  Want to pop out some kids? Go for it, and enjoy your three score and ten years.


Because no one would ever attempt to circumvent the system to their own benefit.
 
2013-10-02 08:03:04 PM
StopLurkListen:

It's not our longevity, it's our consumption.

If nothing else changed, adding 1 billion "average humans" wouldn't harm the planet nearly as much as 1 billion existing non-Americans starting to consume like Americans do.


One of the things I've always found amusing / depressing about discussions of climate change is the "but... but... China!" argument.

It's true. China did recently catch up with the US as far as carbon production.

Mind you, they have four times the population. So basically you have one obese guy at the buffet saying "What are you looking at me for? Those four skinny chinese at the next table over had just as much as I did!"
 
2013-10-02 08:06:02 PM
hilobrow.com

Kim begs to differ.
 
2013-10-02 08:15:26 PM
Wasn't Ray Kurzweil the guy who said we'll be immortal by 2045?
 
2013-10-02 08:39:18 PM

bumblebutt: Not my idea but a decent one: Require that women of childbearing age who want to be on welfare have an IUD inserted. Go off welfare, get it removed ( if they want). Want a lifetime of even more freebies? Opt for sterilization. This plus education and oddly enough- soap operas in poor, rural areas with high birthrates  (again, not my idea- women see that the stars on the soap operas don't have 19 kids and they try to emulate them) will help bring about sustainability..


You want to drop the birthrate real real fast?  make paternity tesitng mandatory, and when a child is weaned the father must take primary responsibility in caring for it for two years.  And no dropping the sprog off at daycare, that just shows you don't love your kid or want to raise it properly.

Men will wrap their package so often they'll forget what unprotected sex feels like.
 
2013-10-02 08:41:30 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Hollie Maea: vossiewulf: Longer human lifespans would be an unmitigated disaster without an equivalent drop in birth rate. In other words, it would be an unmitigated disaster.

Nah...you just put them together.  Want your longevity pill? Here you go, and here is your sterilization pill.  Want to pop out some kids? Go for it, and enjoy your three score and ten years.

Because no one would ever attempt to circumvent the system to their own benefit.


Make it one process - the immortality pill also sterilizes you
 
2013-10-02 08:46:57 PM
Count me among the hopeful life-extension nutters.

/along with Google, but I'm sure you guys are right; you must be privy to some information that they aren't
 
2013-10-02 08:50:10 PM
Uhh... Subby?
i1129.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-02 09:08:27 PM
img542.imageshack.us

That depends. Are we talking about an immortal man who saves the planet every few weeks?
 
2013-10-02 09:12:02 PM
a flock of birds/b>

Count me among the hopeful life-extension nutters.

/along with Google, but I'm sure you guys are right; you must be privy to some information that they aren't

I'm fortunate in that my siblings provided for that, I get to be the coolest uncle, and have four tiny minds to mold... :)
 
2013-10-02 09:14:09 PM
That didn;t format well.
 
2013-10-02 09:31:20 PM

fusillade762: Time to summon He Who Must Not Be Named.


Lindsey Lohan?
 
2013-10-02 09:34:46 PM

bumblebutt: Not my idea but a decent one: Require that women of childbearing age who want to be on welfare have an IUD inserted. Go off welfare, get it removed ( if they want). Want a lifetime of even more freebies? Opt for sterilization. This plus education and oddly enough- soap operas in poor, rural areas with high birthrates  (again, not my idea- women see that the stars on the soap operas don't have 19 kids and they try to emulate them) will help bring about sustainability..


Democrats wouldn't go for it because that means less poor people being born, and thus, less people voting for them.

Republicans wouldn't go for it because most of them are anti-birth control and free birth control is socialism
 
2013-10-02 09:53:24 PM

StopLurkListen: Oh, hey, the "life extension" nutter hasn't shown up yet. This has got to be like catnip for him or her...


He/she was tearing up the Clooney thread.
 
2013-10-02 10:07:40 PM
In order for this to have a chance of working we'd need to be a lot more technologically advanced, a lot more organized, and a lot more competent than we are.

In other words: not happenin'.
 
2013-10-02 10:09:35 PM
More mouths to feed, more diseases and disabled folks to deal with. Bad idea.
 
2013-10-02 10:12:07 PM
Also, we'd need to be a lot more generous. No one is going to make this freely available because humans are greedy shiats.  I expect any process extending human life to be wildly expensive.
 
2013-10-02 10:24:56 PM

Ego edo infantia cattus: [hilobrow.com image 324x500]

Kim begs to differ.


One of the two ridiculous mcguffin/deus ex machina tricks he pulled in that series.


netgamer7k: Wasn't Ray Kurzweil the guy who said we'll be immortal by 2045?


Yes, because we'd have artificial intelligences so much more advanced than humanity that they would bootstrap up to near-godhood, and then give us immortality as a thank-you present.
 
2013-10-02 10:35:43 PM

FrancoFile: Ego edo infantia cattus: [hilobrow.com image 324x500]

Kim begs to differ.

One of the two ridiculous mcguffin/deus ex machina tricks he pulled in that series.


netgamer7k: Wasn't Ray Kurzweil the guy who said we'll be immortal by 2045?

Yes, because we'd have artificial intelligences so much more advanced than humanity that they would bootstrap up to near-godhood, and then give us immortality as a thank-you present.



His idea is that we would merge with the artificial intelligence, not that it would be some separate entity that we would then have to hope would be nice to us.
 
2013-10-02 10:44:22 PM
Not sure why we would need to colonize space.  There can be only one!
 
2013-10-02 11:42:03 PM
Aren't the biggest killers accident, violence, and preventable disease (heart disease, for instance) anyhow?

Raising the cap on the potential ultimate achievable age probably won't impact population all  that much.  The only age-related killer in the top 5 is cancer.
 
2013-10-03 12:17:50 AM
If they lived longer, the people from the Midwest would able to couch sit longer and eat more candy and ice cream.  They would make the world a better place.
 
2013-10-03 12:39:32 AM

Jim_Callahan: Aren't the biggest killers accident, violence, and preventable disease (heart disease, for instance) anyhow?

Raising the cap on the potential ultimate achievable age probably won't impact population all  that much.  The only age-related killer in the top 5 is cancer.


Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 597,689
Cancer: 574,743
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
Diabetes: 69,071
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364
 
2013-10-03 01:19:27 AM

a flock of birds: His idea is that we would merge with the artificial intelligence, not that it would be some separate entity that we would then have to hope would be nice to us.


His idea is a gibbering, incoherent, mass of futile optimism.

Moore's law is not unlimited.  The clock speed race has largely died.  Now it's all going multicore, but keeping an increasing number of cores coherent is more sharply limited than clock cycles.  After that, I would expect the next step to be specified-use processing units, like cryptographic coprocessors or something.

And that's pretty much a dead end after that.

/Quantum processors will be in there somewhere
//But they only help with certain applications, and in most cases will not be useful.
 
2013-10-03 05:14:27 AM
Androtheism: the belief that man is God. Originated in the late 20th century by the so-called me-generation, an unusually populous age group resulting from a post-war baby boom. Androtheists take the idea that the world revolves around them as a literal belief. To the androtheist, original sin is found in any activity carried out by a human being that exploits the environmentin order to aid that human's survival. This can only be attoned by engaging in the ritual of activism which can range from acts of trespass and petty vandalism to the expression of emotionally charged debating fallacies on open discussion forums.
 
2013-10-03 07:59:30 AM
I'm afraid that this is not acceptable people need to die eventually to make way for new people.
Im getting near the halfway point of my life and Im glad to see myself and my kids getting older. We need that I assure you that eventually around 160 years or so a person would go absolutely mad.

People are stubborn creatures who don't easily accept change.
 
2013-10-03 10:34:19 AM

THE GREAT NAME: Androtheism: the belief that man is God. Originated in the late 20th century by the so-called me-generation, an unusually populous age group resulting from a post-war baby boom. Androtheists take the idea that the world revolves around them as a literal belief. To the androtheist, original sin is found in any activity carried out by a human being that exploits the environmentin order to aid that human's survival. This can only be attoned by engaging in the ritual of activism which can range from acts of trespass and petty vandalism to the expression of emotionally charged debating fallacies on open discussion forums.


0/10
 
2013-10-03 10:35:57 AM
A world full of old Westerners surrounded by hungry, landless and young Third Worlders?

Oh, sure, that should end well.
 
2013-10-03 11:09:43 AM
Would only work with a eugenics program
 
2013-10-03 11:17:47 AM

netgamer7k: Wasn't Ray Kurzweil the guy who said we'll be immortal by 2045?


2035 I think was when he expected Brain Uploading, but the immortality was more due to the fact that we'd be replacing body parts with cybernetics, and through a combination of genetic engineering, nanotechnology repairing biological parts, and transferring our brain into artificial ones (more or less).

But he believes 2035 to be around when the Singularity to hit.
 
2013-10-03 11:26:57 AM

a flock of birds: His idea is that we would merge with the artificial intelligence, not that it would be some separate entity that we would then have to hope would be nice to us.


For all intents and purposes they're be two species of human basically (not counting what people might do with genetic engineering and how defined you want to get with species);

You'd have proto-humans (basic humans as you know them, no genetic or cybernetic enhancements, these would be your luddites more or less, and would be disadvantaged too)

And you'd have the modified humans, neo-humans, whatever classification in the end, but they'd be enhanced genetically, probably have nanobots in them, enhanced with cybernetic technology, and directly integrated with advanced AI/Computers to give them an edge in all aspects of life.

Having the luddites wouldn't be entirely a bad thing, least you'd have base stock if something went horribly wrong... *shrugs*
 
2013-10-03 11:59:56 AM
One would hope at least, that faced with immortality most people would realize they have to conserve the earth for their own future. Conserving for the future of somoene youre never going to meet is I think an abstract concept many cant get past. In that alone it might work.
 
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