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(Washington Post)   Breaking: Boehner, McConnell, Pelosi and Reid will be meeting at the White House with President Obama at 5:30 ET today. Will this standoff end?   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 303
    More: Unlikely, President Obama, White House, Boehner, McConnell v. FEC, no solutions, government shutdown, House Republicans, House Minority Leader  
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1136 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Oct 2013 at 2:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-10-02 12:36:30 PM  
12 votes:

NewportBarGuy: "John, you are not more important than the 300,000,000 Americans in this country. Bring a clean bill to the floor, or I will make sure all of them blame you for this. In return, I offer you this lovely bottle of Wild Turkey. Enjoy."


I hope this is his plan. I hope its to meet with them and then give a speech on national TV basically saying:

"Tonight I met with the leaders of both houses of Congress. After discussion with Speaker Boehner and Minority Leader McConnell how they plan to move us forward, they are demanding I make certain concessions in order to keep the government running, and to increase the debt ceiling.

I say to them now, and to the American people at large - Mr. Speaker, Mr. Minority Leader, this is my offer: nothing. Neither I nor Majority Leader Reid will permit you to take the American people and its government hostage in order to extract demands in exchange for simply not blowing up the economy. That is not a negotiation. That's extortion, and its not how this government operates.

You will get nothing from me. Pass a budget and raise the debt ceiling. Now.

Good night."
2013-10-02 12:33:08 PM  
7 votes:
"John, you are not more important than the 300,000,000 Americans in this country. Bring a clean bill to the floor, or I will make sure all of them blame you for this. In return, I offer you this lovely bottle of Wild Turkey. Enjoy."
2013-10-02 12:31:37 PM  
6 votes:

Re Congress: It's a hijack, not a standoff. You don't blame the folks outside the bank when the robbers won't come out.

- David Yee (@tangentialism) October 2, 2013
2013-10-02 12:14:39 PM  
6 votes:
Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.
2013-10-02 04:49:55 PM  
5 votes:

dwrash: And they are voting in line with the will of the people.


Oh this is a fun game! Let's also have the GOP vote in line with the will of the people on gun control, raising taxes on the wealthy, and immigration reform. Three quarters of Americans oppose Congress shutting down the federal government to block implementation of the Affordable Care Act. Will of the people doesn't mean dick to them, so don't hold it up like some righteous trophy. It ain't.
2013-10-02 04:28:30 PM  
5 votes:
If Obama is smart, with McConnell and Boehner separated from the pack of howling whackadoos, he'll tell them he already knows House Republicans have the votes on a clean CR if they can flush the tea party, and offer a minor, token concession on a "moderate" Republican pet issue with bipartisan support --  but not a tea party issue, like a payroll tax cut or something. Boehner can own the concession as much as he wants, as long as he puts the new CR up to a vote immediately, and instructs his caucus to vote their conscience.

If they say no, Obama, Pelosi, and Reid immediately walk out and say "we tried to negotiate, but Republican leadership is too hamstrung by right-wing extremists to act. As a show of good faith, we're putting this bill to a straight yay-or-nay vote in the Senate and sending it to the House. The American people can then judge for themselves who are the bad guys from that point." Then,  they do it.

If they say yes, non-batshiat Congressional Republicans get a lifeline in dealing with the tea party, Congressional Democrats and Obama get to continue playing divide-and-conquer, and the tea party gets baited into flying its true colors even louder and prouder for all to see.
2013-10-02 03:20:19 PM  
5 votes:

SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.


After Iran-Contra, I learned that Conservatives will negotiate with Terrorists. After this shutdown, I learned the Conservatives are the terrorists. After this post, I learned that we are dealing with special needs terrorists.
2013-10-02 03:08:54 PM  
5 votes:

dwrash: Because that LAW was so poorly written that it requires funding from Congress every year to continue


Wow, you really are that dense. The law is funded through mandatory spending. It doesn't require any new legislation from Congress to continue. It's continuing right now.
2013-10-02 02:14:18 PM  
5 votes:

Weaver95: I think even the tea party is starting to realize that they might have gone too far on this one. Problem is...they can't back down or their own people will eat them alive.


I think you completely misunderstand what the tea party is, at least regarding this situation. There are several attempts to retcon the TP origin story, but the reality is that they were simply a Republican astroturf campaign. The problem today stems from the tools and tactics the Republicans used when they created this group--mainly using the basest arguments directed to create fear, panic even, and festering hate for those they wished to paint as enemies of the state while simultaneously fostering the nascent distrust of governmental policies and leadership that were direct results of the failed GW Bush administration - false reasoning for war, squandered financial security, bogus patriotism and the like.

By using these tools, giving significant attention to the complaints through national media campaigns on Fox News (who were chased and repeated by their competitors), they roped in a bunch of really upset, ill-informed and, frankly, scared-as-fark people they didn't seem to really expect to jump on board. Since it was branded "grassroots" these people didn't have any qualms about taking over. Soon after that, the purity tests began. Technocrats, bureaucrats, reasonably qualified politicians were run down by the new crazy train. It became easy for the non-qualified grifters to aim that hate-gun at their opponents and rake in the cash from the new gravy train. Some got elected, knowing full well that they had to maintain this hyper-partisan, hyper-conservative veneer to keep the next player from gunning after them. The end game is cash and power.

The "Tea Party" as a group knows no consequences for their actions. They only fear the opposition - "socailism" or "Obama" - quoted as they're known as misrepresentations of what they really are.

Even if these jackwagons get booted from office, they won't give a shiat. They got their money, they got their power.
2013-10-02 02:10:58 PM  
5 votes:
SkinnyHead:

Seeing as how Obama agreed to postpone Obamacare penalties for big business for a year, its only fair that individual citizens -- the 99% -- should get the same consideration.  And it is also fair to require members of congress to live with Obamacare like everyone else, without getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to ease the pain.

As for scrambling to save face, the article says that Obama is the one who summoned the congressional leaders to the table.  That means he's got to put something on the table.  I think he will decide to delay the individual mandate and end the subsidies on his own, in exchange for a clean CR.


It's  nice to see you posting predictions along these lines. You truly are an amazing bell-weather for being wrong. So, we can probably expect the opposite of this to happen.
2013-10-02 01:48:20 PM  
5 votes:
I think even the tea party is starting to realize that they might have gone too far on this one. Problem is...they can't back down or their own people will eat them alive.
2013-10-02 12:44:40 PM  
5 votes:
img34.imageshack.us
2013-10-02 07:09:01 PM  
4 votes:
The Republicans will not negotiate in good faith.

Extend the Bush tax cuts just a little longer...
Don't cripple the filibuster, we'll stop abusing it...
Just do as we say, and we'll only cut food stamps a tiny little bit...

And what happens? They get what they want and then continue on pursuing more of the same, slowly chipping away at the Democrats and achieving dominance piece by piece.

They do not bargain. They ransom and bide their time for the next chance to do it again, and again.

Crisis after crisis, mostly engineered by them and every time they get something that they want.

It has to stop. Obama said it himself. We as a nation can not go on like this and allow this to become our new standard operating procedure. It will destroy us and our credibility in all meanings of the word.
2013-10-02 04:40:19 PM  
4 votes:

Saiga410: It is not their fault the dems will not pass a clean version of it through the Senate.


Senate passed a budget in the spring. The GOP has since blocked any attempts to form a conference committee.
2013-10-02 03:41:31 PM  
4 votes:

jst3p: At the very least it should put an end to "Obama will talk with Putin and Netanyahu but won't even talk with Republicans"? That I keep hearing on AM radio.


If Obama can successfully negotiate with the leaders of Russia, Israel, and Iran, but can't negotiate with the Republicans, maybe Obama isn't the problem.
2013-10-02 03:35:41 PM  
4 votes:

FeFiFoFark: I have concluded that Fark is a liberal echo chamber.

/NTTAWWT


The majority of Farkers are rational people, which causes one to believe that this is a liberal echo chamber. It's a common mistake.
2013-10-02 03:01:28 PM  
4 votes:

bdub77: In my dreams:

Obama: "Here's my offer: Go f*ck yourself.Do we have a deal?"
Boehner: "No, Mr. President. I'm not authorized to--"
Obama (to Secret Service agent): "Jerry, shoot this guy."
Boehner: "What?"
*BOOM*
Obama: "Speaker Cantor, now...do we have a deal?"
Cantor: "Wha-wha-wha-wha-wha?"
Obama: "DO I STUTTER?"


While that's a very attractive notion, it may be impractical. In all seriousness, this is what I'd like the president to say:

"Senators, Mr. Speaker, Madame Congresswoman - thank you all so much for appearing on such short notice. I know your time is valuable, as is mine, so I'll get right down to cases. Mr. Speaker, you appear to have a problem. I am sympathetic to your situation, but I must point out that it is a problem entirely of your own making. You will need to find a solution, and you will need to find it immediately. Let me make clear that your solution will not include any changes to the Affordable Care Act, nor any spending reductions beyond those already forced by the sequester. Furthermore - and please, listen carefully, because this is important - your solution will not under any circumstances involve any linkage or connection to the debt ceiling. Should you try to entangle this problem with the Congress' absolute duty to assure that this country not default on its obligations, you will find that you have made a tactical blunder of historic proportions. Know that I am dead serious about this - I will personally make sure that the remainder of your political career is short and extremely unpleasant. Now then, I'm sure you are all able to show yourselves out. Good day."
2013-10-02 02:47:39 PM  
4 votes:
Two things should happen here

1) Obama says you get nothing.  Put the clean CR to a vote tomorrow.  All Dems and a fair number of Rs will vote for it
2) Pelosi tells Boehner that she'll get the D's to keep him as Speaker

Have Obama go on TV at 8 tonight and tell America that the Government can open tomorrow if Boehner brings the Senate bill to the floor.  That's all the Republicans have to do.
2013-10-02 02:40:57 PM  
4 votes:

Kibbler: DamnYankees: Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.

I don't necessarily agree with this.  He can grant a (very) small delay in a (very) minor part of the law, something they can try to use as a fig leaf.  Along with the message, "This is it, guys.  Nothing more on Obamacare."  Something to convince them that they'll be able to go back to their rabid pinhead teadhadists without being torn to shreds.

They will be torn to shreds, of course.  They will.

Which is why...*plugging in popcorn popper*...I suggest it.


He can't give even a tiny thing. He needs to permanently extinguish the idea that you can hold the economy hostage as a negotiating tactic. If he gives anything, the idea stays alive . Remember, this is a freaking 6 week CR! If the Dems give up anything, are we just supposed to keep repeating this process every 6 weeks, ad infinitum?
2013-10-02 02:39:22 PM  
4 votes:

somedude210: Reid blinked...

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/326137-reid-off er s-to-talk-tax-reform-if-gop-funds-government


No he didn't. The GOP were shouting that the Senate hadn't passed a budget, so they did. Then the House refused to sit down for budgetary reconciliation for months, requiring a continuing resolution to keep paying people. The reason the House has refused to sit down for reconciliation is that the GOP don't want to actually negotiate. What Reid is 'offering' here is the opportunity for the GOP to do their jobs if only they'll do their jobs.

Which is also why Boehner outright refused.
2013-10-02 02:39:13 PM  
4 votes:

somedude210: Reid blinked...

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/326137-reid-off er s-to-talk-tax-reform-if-gop-funds-government


That's not Reid blinking. He's saying that if the House passes a clean CR, then he'll appoint conferees - that's something the Democrats have been begging the GOP to do for 6 months! Reid isn't budging at all.
2013-10-02 02:28:25 PM  
4 votes:
From the Moonie Times:

When President Obama meets with congressional leaders late Wednesday afternoon, he'll ask for nothing other than that Republicans allow the federal government to reopen.

"A negotiation in the Washington sense traditionally implies give-and-take, trade-offs, demands, if you give me this, I'll give you that. The president's approach in this that he's asking for nothing from Republicans," White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters. "He is attaching zero demands to the general proposition that Congress should simply open the government, keep it open. He is asking for nothing, making no demands. He is attaching no partisan strings to his request."


I like this a lot. Notice how Carney is saying that the president is demanding nothing, while strongly implying that likewise the president is offering nothing (as he shouldn't, IMHO). This may be the best played game of chess Hogwarts has seen these many years.
2013-10-02 02:19:47 PM  
4 votes:
The meeting had better go like this:

"You will pass a clean CR. There is to be no negotiating. There is only one option for getting out of this, and I want to make it clear that you have no others. You can grandstand, go to the media, cry and whine, but neither the Senate nor myself will consider anything but a clean funding bill with no riders. You will do it now, or you will do it later, but you will do it. Now get the fark out of my office and go do your jobs."
IP
2013-10-02 01:45:41 PM  
4 votes:
This better be his offer:

2.bp.blogspot.com
2013-10-02 01:40:18 PM  
4 votes:

SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.


You're tripping balls right now, aren't you?
2013-10-02 01:28:17 PM  
4 votes:

dr_blasto: The mouthbreathers have been calling everything tyranny. Health care? Tyranny. Highways? Tyranny. State of the Union speech? Tyranny. Moved Hannity's show off prime time? Tyranny.

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?


Well, when I was 17, in 1995, I took a long walk with my dad. It was during the last major debt crisis. I had been a subscriber to National Review and listener to El Fatso. I changed my mind quickly. I realized what they were doing was suicidal and in the wrong interests of the country. I talked to him about what do we do. We discussed what Napoleon did when his country was in a similar situation. You'd have to take over Congress with a military force. You'd have to appear on TV and admit that what you had done was treasonous in and of itself and accept responsibility for your actions once things were normalized.

i.e. You arrest every member of Congress, try them in a kangaroo court and then you have two choices. You execute them or send them back home stripped of their duties. I chose the later. Then you'd have to announce snap elections, as they do in the Parliamentary System and we choose new Reps and Sens. Once those elections are complete, the people responsible for the military change would have to be either shot on site or imprisoned for life because they did violate the law.

It would be incredibly messy and I highly doubt it would see through to nice, normal elections and a new crop of legislators. Somewhere, someone would use the opportunity to seize power. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. We hate our system with a passion sometimes, but I honestly have never seen a realistic way to do a swap and clear.

It would get bloody far too quickly. We work within this f*cked up system precisely because of how bloody and awful a revolution is. We know that better than most. Plus, we are lazy as f*ck. We got raped by the financial system and did nothing about it. Getting raped the same way by politicians offers a similar response. People get angry, but unless there is some iconic figure who can rise up and say enough and lead us in another direction, we're just stuck with what we have and everything else is a fantasy.

We're just going to ride it out and hope people can make the right decision.
2013-10-02 12:52:58 PM  
4 votes:

James!: Let's not pretend that Boehner has the authority to make a deal.


He absolutely does. He would just need to make the deal with Democrats. The fact that he doesn't want to do that is an indictment of him, nothing else.
2013-10-02 12:15:49 PM  
4 votes:

DamnYankees: Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.


the only thing he should give Boehner and McConnell is his pimp hand

/and that biatch Pelosi too.
2013-10-02 07:12:15 PM  
3 votes:

parasol: It's practically their dream come true. These are some departments that are closed or mostly closed:

USDA inspections,


That one...that one boggles the farking mind.  I can understand why Republicans have a problem with federal science agencies, since they have to keep the solidly Republican block of religious conservatives happy, and they're not keen on science.  I can understand environmental agencies because the Republican party is bought and paid for by the Job Creators, peace be upon them, and environmental regulations tend to get in the way of profits.

But the USDA?  Why would you not want the food and medicine that you consume to have some sort of sanitary standard?  Rhetorical question, but are you farking crazy?  It's not even a feigned argument.  During the Republican primaries, Michelle Bachmann gave a speech in a meat packing plant where she literally said the meat packing industry was "too regulated" and as President, she would remove all regulations.
2013-10-02 07:09:01 PM  
3 votes:

quizzical: I wouldn't say it's irrational. It's just that Obama has had his "Please proceed" face on this week, and I'm optimistic he'll stick to it. He needs to get a clean CR through, and then they can talk about whatever they need to for the budget. Anything less than a clean CR just encourages the Republicans to pull this shiat again during the debt ceiling fight, or again in six weeks when the CR runs out.


That's the argument they need to be leading with. They're getting too bogged down in details and Washington machinations on committees and whatnot. People just zone out and BSAB. Get on the air and make it clear that funding the government and passing the debt ceiling are not viable hostages for a functioning democracy. Make it clear that this is a debate about tactics, and that negotiating with extortionists will only result in more extortion.
2013-10-02 06:00:48 PM  
3 votes:

parasol: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: KarmicDisaster: The tea Party has been planning this shutdown for a long time. It's what they wanted. Obamacare is just the excuse.

It's practically their dream come true. These are some departments that are closed or mostly closed:

USDA inspections, food stamps, the Smithsonian, National Science Foundation, Department of Commerce, Department of Education, National Labor Relations Board, OSHA, National Gallery of Art, Federal Trade Commission, National Parks, Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission, Federal Election Commission, Federal Communications Commission, FDIC Office of the Inspector General, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, and U.S. courts close in ten days.

Everything else is on until the money runs out.

It's Christmas in Derpghanistan.

Based on what I've seen in freeperville you are depressingly correct - it went from amusing, to odd, to frightening awful fast


That's the thing, there won't be any deal. That's why the Teaparty is asking for their impossible laundry list as well as defunding ACA.  Their goal was to "shuterdown". They have accomplished that, and they aren't going to give that sense of power up. They have accomplised more economic terrorism with this attack than any group of terrorists ever did, and until regular republicans revolt and kick them out, which is going to take a lot, they will persist because attacking the US government was their goal.
2013-10-02 05:20:16 PM  
3 votes:

Bane of Broone: If agreeing that 2+2=4 makes it an echo chamber then yes.


Dem: 2+2=4
Rep: 2+2=5
Media: 2+2=4.5
Bf+
2013-10-02 04:57:27 PM  
3 votes:

imontheinternet: I bet Obama is going to tell Boehner that the current CR deal is off the table by some deadline, and that after that deadline he won't sign anything without a debt ceiling increase.


O.O

ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease
2013-10-02 04:50:18 PM  
3 votes:

dwrash: And they are voting in line with the will of the people. At NO TIME EVER has the majority of Americans been FOR the ACA.. I think the last poll average last week was 38% for and 52% against... so the question is why are the democrats so entrenched in retaining a law that America DOES NOT WANT.

It's very interesting when you look at the real numbers... it seems dems. have been backed into a corner where it's more about saving face then abiding by the will of the people.


We've been over this.  The American people were given the opportunity to provide the GOP with a mandate to repeal Obamacare during the 2012 elections, and they overwhelmingly voted to deny the GOP that mandate.

On the other hand, the American people clearly oppose using a government shutdown to engineer a back-door repeal of the ACA.  That's a fact.
2013-10-02 04:49:18 PM  
3 votes:
I bet Obama is going to tell Boehner that the current CR deal is off the table by some deadline, and that after that deadline he won't sign anything without a debt ceiling increase.
2013-10-02 04:41:27 PM  
3 votes:
HuffPo says there are 18 Republicans willing to pass a clean CR. That's 1 more than the magic number. All Boner has to do is bring it up.
2013-10-02 04:29:46 PM  
3 votes:
17 republicans have now stated they'll vote for a clean CR, so combined w/the democrats, that's >50% of the House.

So if Boehner would bring it to the floor for a vote, we could be done with the shutdown TODAY.

/not going to happen.
2013-10-02 03:59:50 PM  
3 votes:

dwrash: it is the HOUSES RIGHT to deny funding to whatever it sees fit.


ALL legislation - which by definition includes funding legislation - has be passed in both the House AND the Senate.  That legislation must then be signed into law by the President.   If the President vetos the legislation, then the House and the Senate may overturn that veto with the approval of 2/3 of the members of EACH chamber.

So while the House has every right to keep trying to deny funding to the ACA, the Senate and the President have every right to keep telling them no.  The Sentate has told the House "No!" 41 times by not taking up the House's previous efforts to repeal the ACA.

Even IF the bill passes the House AND the Senate, President Obama has already said he would veto anything except a clean CR.  Unless the Republicans can muster 2/3 of the House and the Senate to override a Presidential veto, it is FUTILE for them to vote on anything except a clean CR.

In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.
2013-10-02 02:58:35 PM  
3 votes:

dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards, people just don't know their civics very well.


Not really. Tying everything to ObamaCare after it had gone into affect was a huge mistake. The Dems can sit back and wait a month to get data on how many people gain insurance through the law, then say that if they give into the GOP demands, that means millions of Americans will lose their health insurance.
2013-10-02 02:49:49 PM  
3 votes:
Also I almost forgot.

SkinnyHead still refuses to even come to the table about the 2 years of totalfark that he owes me.


Wont even bother to acknowledge it, let alone open negotiations.

Why? Is he too busy doping candy with knockout chemicals in his attempt to sell toddlers to 3rd world dictators?

Maybe, Im just asking questions..

You owe me two years of Total Fark SkinnyHead.  Don't forget, I want them bought individually in 1 month segments until you reach the full two years worth.

You are being very very unreasonable SkinnyHead, and the people see that.
2013-10-02 02:42:07 PM  
3 votes:

Garet Garrett: I certainly hope this comes to an end, if only for the poor souls in the media.  They must be godawfully tired from carrying so much water for the administration over this whole mess (I'm looking at you, NPR).  It can't be easy running interview after interview trying to whip up outrage over the shutdown only to find that the people who've been furloughed are, literally and nominally, non-essential.

OTOH, if it ends, they'll only have about 3 cycles of news stories about how difficult it is to restart things, and then what will they report on?  They'll have to get an early start covering anticipated GOP terrorism in the debt ceiling debate, I guess.
 WHY WON'T THE MEDIA STOP BLAMING THE GOP HOUSE AND START BLAMING OBAMA INSTEAD?!?!?!?!


FTFY
2013-10-02 02:39:11 PM  
3 votes:

somedude210: Reid blinked...

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/326137-reid-off er s-to-talk-tax-reform-if-gop-funds-government


From your link:

Reid sent a letter to Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) pledging to appoint negotiators to a budget conference if House Republicans relent on a six-week funding stopgap.

The budget conference is something Democrats have long sought, however, and the proposal was quickly shot down by Boehner's office.


He has wanted this for some time, now. How has he blinked?
2013-10-02 02:37:21 PM  
3 votes:
In my dreams:

Obama: "Here's my offer: Go f*ck yourself.Do we have a deal?"
Boehner: "No, Mr. President. I'm not authorized to--"
Obama (to Secret Service agent): "Jerry, shoot this guy."
Boehner: "What?"
*BOOM*
Obama: "Speaker Cantor, now...do we have a deal?"
Cantor: "Wha-wha-wha-wha-wha?"
Obama: "DO I STUTTER?"
2013-10-02 02:31:39 PM  
3 votes:

mrshowrules: Weaver95: mrshowrules: DamnYankees: Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.

He will concede a fake thing.  Like a commission to make recommendations on improving Obamacare.  Something that has no substance but gives the GOP a small out.

Or he could let the GOP twist in the wind, concede nothing while continuing to show himself as being reasonable .

Either way.  There is no outcome favourable to the GOP.  There are outcomes of varying degrees of pain for the US however.  America is like the parable of the child and the two mothers which King Solomon suggesting splitting in two.  Except with the GOP abducting the child every few years.


Which is why Obama shouldnt make a deal with the GOP. He should stand firm, let them continue to appear as unreasonable jerks and let the voters know who is hurting them and why they're doing it.
2013-10-02 02:29:23 PM  
3 votes:
This better not turn out to be a meeting to figure out some way Pelosi, Reed, and Obama can save Boehner's ass from himself and the cretins in his caucus.

I will be extremely unhappy if this turns out to be anything besides the three of them putting the farking screws to the guy.  Because if they save his ass, we'll all be farked again in 2 weeks with the debt ceiling, and again in a few months whenever the next (eventually agreed upon) CR is set to expire.
2013-10-02 02:28:10 PM  
3 votes:

SkinnyHead: I think he will decide to delay the individual mandate and end the subsidies on his own, in exchange for a clean CR.


It's impossible to delay the mandate. The pricing in the exchanges depends on their being a mandate. If you delay that, then you have to shutdown the exchanges.
2013-10-02 02:22:25 PM  
3 votes:

Cyclometh: The meeting had better go like this:

"You will pass a clean CR and debt ceiling. There is to be no negotiating. There is only one option for getting out of this, and I want to make it clear that you have no others. You can grandstand, go to the media, cry and whine, but neither the Senate nor myself will consider anything but a clean funding bill and clean debt ceiling

  with no riders. You will do it now, or you will do it later, but you will do it. Now get the fark out of my office and go do your jobs."

FTFY, otherwise spot on.
2013-10-02 02:16:44 PM  
3 votes:

Weaver95: I think even the tea party is starting to realize that they might have gone too far on this one. Problem is...they can't back down or their own people will eat them alive.


Which is inevitable. The longer they delay it, the worse it's going to be for our country and for their party. Their first mistake was giving crazy people any political power at all.
2013-10-02 02:12:59 PM  
3 votes:

mrshowrules: DamnYankees: Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.

He will concede a fake thing.  Like a commission to make recommendations on improving Obamacare.  Something that has no substance but gives the GOP a small out.


He can't give even a fake thing. He needs to permanently extinguish the idea that you can hold the economy hostage as a negotiating tactic. If he gives anything, the idea stays alive.
2013-10-02 01:01:16 PM  
3 votes:

DamnYankees: http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/10/obama-to-meet-with-congre ss ional-leaders-wednesday-174107.html


From a link on the video from 1995 on Politico from John Boehner: "The President was out playing golf and has offered no leadership."

Last night on CNBC Kay Bailey Hutchinson: "President Clinton talked to the Republican leadership. Obama would rather talk to the Iranians and Syrians. And he's out playing golf."

Boehner said the same thing in 2013 that he said in 1995 as well.

Amazing. They just f*cking lie and use the same f*cking lines from 20 years ago while distorting history to make it seem like Clinton did anything different than Obama because they need to demonize him.
2013-10-02 12:34:06 PM  
3 votes:
He shouldn't even show.  Just borrow that chair from Clint Eastwood.
2013-10-02 12:24:57 PM  
3 votes:
i42.tinypic.com
2013-10-02 07:50:23 PM  
2 votes:
Canadian version:

Conservatives: 2+2 = whatever the goddamn hell we say it is

Liberals: 2+2 = whatever you want us to say!  Hey, how about this shiny relic of a bygone past?  Can it equal that?  Please?

NDP: 2+2 = Not what those other guys are saying.

Green: 2+2 = NO NUKES!

Bloq Quebecois: 2+2 = -1
2013-10-02 07:16:33 PM  
2 votes:
WUSA replayed Boehner's very short remarks. Testy, repeated talking points, took no questions. Stormed off.

Somebody got a spanking.
2013-10-02 07:08:31 PM  
2 votes:

DamnYankees: Deucednuisance: Just announced: no deal, no negotiations to come.

Cite? Not seeing it on twitter, which always has stuff first.


Presser, live on WUSA Channel 9. Reid and Pelosi speaking firmly, GOP has stomped off.
2013-10-02 06:11:18 PM  
2 votes:

DamnYankees: Random question - if the government is shutdown, how is C-SPAN working? Does it have some other funding source?


C-SPAN is actually privately-run, funded by cable/satellite subscription fees.
2013-10-02 06:10:06 PM  
2 votes:

DamnYankees: Random question - if the government is shutdown, how is C-SPAN working? Does it have some other funding source?


www.c-span.org
2013-10-02 05:48:31 PM  
2 votes:

dwrash: And they are voting in line with the will of the people.  At NO TIME EVER has the majority of Americans been FOR the ACA.. I think the last poll average last week was 38% for and 52% against... so the question is why are the democrats so entrenched in retaining a law that America DOES NOT WANT.


Let's assume for a minute that not one single citizen wants the ACA (other than Obama) and that implementing it will mean the end of anything good in the universe. This still isn't the way to deal with that. Funding the government isn't optional. It must be done. There's nothing to negotiate there. The government must be funded. I keep seeing people post that it's entirely reasonable to use the CR as negotiating leverage, but it isn't. The only things that are negotiable are things that the nation can do without, and that does not include funding for the government.
There is a legislative process for addressing bad/unpopular laws. Now, House Republicans have tried to repeal it 40+ times and failed without having bothered to offer an alternative or propose changes to the existing law. They either need to go back to the drawing board or simply concede defeat. If they're serious about their opposition, they'll work up legislation to either change or replace the ACA. They have to understand by now that simply repealing it won't happen and continuing to try is a waste of time and money.
Also, imagine for a minute if Obama had received a clean CR and instead of signing it demanded immediate amnesty and citizenship for every illegal alien in the country, then gone on to accuse Republicans of being unwilling to negotiate in the face of a government shutdown and then perhaps you'll start to understand why so many people are outraged at the Republicans for what's going on now.
2013-10-02 05:39:04 PM  
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Dusk-You-n-Me: Bane of Broone: If agreeing that 2+2=4 makes it an echo chamber then yes.

Dem: 2+2=4
Rep: 2+2=5
Media: 2+2=4.5

This is 100% accurate.


I was going to suggest that the media response would be something like "Arithmetic classes across the country are being held up by the continued dispute over the value of 2+2. Democrats and some mainline Republicans insist 2+2=4 just as it has from the beginning of time. But conservatives in the GOP and especially Tea Party members say the value of 2+2 has changed due to burdensome government regulations, increased taxes, and gay marriage. Here's how 2+2=5 will effect you..."

But I guess that wasn't as concise.
2013-10-02 05:32:02 PM  
2 votes:

Testiclaw: That's actually a very concise and clever way to display the problem with media "balance".

Bravo, consider it stolen for future use!


I stole it myself, via a tweet from this James Fallows article.
2013-10-02 05:31:57 PM  
2 votes:
Great line from Ed Kilgore today:

Now I don't know anything about the president's relationship with Boehner. But it's becoming a matter of national security for him to find some way to take him aside, maybe give the Speaker a cigarette from his secret stash, and say: "I will see you in Hell before I negotiate over the debt limit. And if you let a default happen, I will devote the rest of my presidency to making sure you, personally, bear the blame, and go down in history with our most despised traitors and criminals. For generations, little school children in Ohio will cross themselves and make hex signs when your name is mentioned. So do not,  do not, go back and tell your crazy people they can win if they just stick together."
2013-10-02 05:24:55 PM  
2 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Bane of Broone: If agreeing that 2+2=4 makes it an echo chamber then yes.

Dem: 2+2=4
Rep: 2+2=5
Media: 2+2=4.5


That's actually a very concise and clever way to display the problem with media "balance".

Bravo, consider it stolen for future use!
2013-10-02 05:24:04 PM  
2 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Bane of Broone: If agreeing that 2+2=4 makes it an echo chamber then yes.

Dem: 2+2=4
Rep: 2+2=5
Media: 2+2=4.5


This is 100% accurate.
2013-10-02 05:20:29 PM  
2 votes:
Well? It's 5:17 on the east cost. this is what i imagine:

Boehner  - staring at himself in the washroom mirror and chewing breath mints

Pelosi - on the phone to a moderate (R)

McConnell - eating lettuce leaves

Reid - stroking the boxing gloves he keeps in a desk drawer

Obama - on the phone with Bill Clinton and wishing he still smoked - for, you know, after the meeting
2013-10-02 05:06:46 PM  
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Saiga410: Bacontastesgood: Saiga410: Um you can negotiate your job and job roles at any time.

Your job contract wasn't written over 200 years ago on parchment.  The house passes a budget, or they aren't doing their job.  Our speaker has deliberately kept a budget from passing.  Not hard.

They did pass a budget.  It is not their fault the dems will not pass a clean version of it through the Senate.

It's not the Senate's job to rubber stamp the House budget. It IS the GOP's fault that they can't take losing.


Also, the Senate passed a budget and then spent the summer asking for a Conference Committee but the Republicans said no.
2013-10-02 05:05:32 PM  
2 votes:

nekom: He needs to get a little bit more out ahead of this and explain to the American people why this is the GOP's fault, as tempting as it is to ignore them until they coma around you know the GOP is doing everything in their power to spin this into a Democrat shutdown.


Sorry, but when 40% of the nation thinks Obama is lying just by starting with "My Fellow Americans" there is no talking to them.
2013-10-02 05:02:59 PM  
2 votes:

naturalbornposer: InmanRoshi: naturalbornposer: Slaves2Darkness: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

If he did I would start the revolution. Understand I'm a liberal Democrat, but if the President starts arresting people for shiat like this it's time to execute people like you.

Agreed. Different beliefs are different. We're supposed to work together, not stonewall each other like the present government is doing. If we tried to erradicate everyone that disagrees with what we think is "right", everyone dies.

You are not correctly diagnosing what is going on here.

There already is "comprimise", and bipartisan support to pass a clean CR bill.   If Boehner let it hit the Congressional Floor, which has already cleared with bipatisan support in the Senate, it would easily pass with votes from both sides of the aisle.

The issue is that a small faction of neo-confederate, anti-government insurrectionists and anarchists who believe they have been sent to Washington by their constituents to sabotage government from the inside.   They're holding our   governance hostage by the threat of the gun.  The Republican Party leadership is too weak and dickless to get them to fall in line, and the Democrats can't set a precedent of rewarding hostage taking tactics.

The thing to remember is this "minority" you describe represents a large portion of the nation, not ten fringe extremists. This us and them attitude is going to split this nation in half, if not quarters (yay fractions!). Both sides are to blame for demonizing each other. Even in a 70-30 win, 30% of our nation feels they're getting shafted. Not 30 people, 30 percent. In a nation of over three hundred million that is 90,000,000 people feeling like someone else is dictating their lives against their will. Let that set in. You don't like it when its done to you.


Kind of like when legislators want to tell me under what circumstances I can forced to be pregnant.  You don't like it when it's done to you.
2013-10-02 04:50:39 PM  
2 votes:

dwrash: And they are voting in line with the will of the people. At NO TIME EVER has the majority of Americans been FOR the ACA.. I think the last poll average last week was 38% for and 52% against... so the question is why are the democrats so entrenched in retaining a law that America DOES NOT WANT.


That's odd. Because since the GOP has a majority of the legislators in the government, they should have been able to easily overturn it by now.

Strange.
2013-10-02 04:34:08 PM  
2 votes:

Saiga410: Um you can negotiate your job and job roles at any time.


Your job contract wasn't written over 200 years ago on parchment.  The house passes a budget, or they aren't doing their job.  Our speaker has deliberately kept a budget from passing.  Not hard.
2013-10-02 04:17:22 PM  
2 votes:

dwrash: quizzical:In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Factually, the Democrats are the minority party.. you know that don't you?.. there are more republicans (278) elected in the house and senate (combined) than there are Democrats.(252)..


Factually, more people voted for Democrats to national offices in 2012 than Republicans.
2013-10-02 04:04:59 PM  
2 votes:

AngryDragon: I guess we'll see by about 6:30 or so. I'll meet you right here. If I'm wrong I will happily apologize. I have a bad feeling about this though.


I understand your frustration but there is, actually, no way for Dems to capitulate here even if they wanted to. The ACA horse left the barn along time ago and the Dems dont have the power to turn back time anymore than anyone else.

Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.
2013-10-02 03:56:38 PM  
2 votes:
The only thing I can think is the Republican moderates are attempting to use this episode to purge themselves of the Tea Partiers, much the way Buckley purged the John Birch society in the 60's. I think they may have finally figured out that they will require extensive rebuilding in order to form a relevant party. What they should have done is to point out a few times the significant weaknesses with ACA, in specific the fact that the whole plan requires the young single people to be willing to pay more for health care then they are currently paying or will pay in case of a penalty. Also the fact of EMR requirements for all physicians by 2015 without having any standards addressed for this or specific requirements for HIPAA compliance or certification. Or the physician shortages that are almost sure to follow. Then say nothing and silently rebuild the party and wait for the ACA governmental costs explode which will require a tax hike and then they would be poised to take advantage.
2013-10-02 03:47:07 PM  
2 votes:

AngryDragon: Lando Lincoln: AngryDragon: [i.imgur.com image 375x347]

It's coming.  You know it is.

I really hope you're wrong.

I really hope I am too.  The Democrats have a habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory though.


Old, tired and stupid meme is old, tired and stupid.

How many successful election cycles do we need before we bury that retarded meme?
2013-10-02 03:45:21 PM  
2 votes:

jst3p: At the very least it should put an end to "Obama will talk with Putin and Netanyahu but won't even talk with Republicans"? That I keep hearing on AM radio.


Two weeks ago, Republican breath stunk of Putin's cock.  It was bizarre.

It would be hilarious if they're now back to referring to him as an antagonist.  I think you may mean Iran, in which case, Jon Stewart put it best:  if Obama can make a deal with a bunch of Iranian Muslim hardliners, maybe he's not the problem.
2013-10-02 03:42:58 PM  
2 votes:
way south: The Republicans,who stood the most to lose in a shutdown,have no reason to go begging Obama's forgiveness at this point. They'll get blamed the same regardless, so they've got plenty of time.

 The Tea Party Republicans don't feel any blame.
 Those more "moderate" GOP members who understand they may be blamed should understand that there really isn't "plenty of time" when voters are waiting for pay and, in some cases, food.

  There really should be some sense of urgency to "fix" if you recognize "blame"
2013-10-02 03:40:38 PM  
2 votes:
I just realized what they want. The GOP, I mean.

They are hoping that if they're loud enough and annoying enough, that the American people will demand that Obama give in.

Like a frazzled mom telling dad to just give the little shiat what he wants so he'll shut up.
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-10-02 03:27:04 PM  
2 votes:

NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.


No, intentionally shutting down the US government and pushing it into financial default is a coup perpetrated by the GOP.  It is the very definition of treason and should be treated as such.  This is not a simple political game, according to the US banking industry the financial impact could be devastating.

Having US elected officials publicly endorsing and celebrating damaging the US government is nothing less than criminal.  If a foreign nation caused this kind of harm, the bombing would begin immediately.
2013-10-02 03:06:59 PM  
2 votes:

dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.


Actually it's a semicolon.

See after the but:  "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills."
- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1


Note that the proposal to defund Obamacare and all subsequent offers have been amendments to the continuing resolution.
2013-10-02 03:05:23 PM  
2 votes:

thornhill: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards, people just don't know their civics very well.

Not really. Tying everything to ObamaCare after it had gone into affect was a huge mistake. The Dems can sit back and wait a month to get data on how many people gain insurance through the law, then say that if they give into the GOP demands, that means millions of Americans will lose their health insurance.


Yep.  After January 1st,  the narrative  moves to "Republicans trying to rip private healthcare coverage from tens of millions of Americans".
2013-10-02 02:59:59 PM  
2 votes:
No.

Not unless he has Boehner and crew arrested for doing willful harm to America because they didn't get their way in 2012 and failed to repeal the Affordable Care Act 40+ times and went on legislative strike.

And no one wants to see that happen.
2013-10-02 02:58:55 PM  
2 votes:

monoski: End of shut-down or just a Pelosi gang-bang?
//how is that lunch sitting in your belly now?


i1089.photobucket.com


Not bad.

I'm sure you look great, for your age, which appears to be about eight or nine years old.
2013-10-02 02:58:39 PM  
2 votes:

naturalbornposer: I don't think it is anyone's position to destroy the system that affords them a life of luxury. I hate them all (red or blue), but I don't believe they'd sabotage themselves.


They don't think of it as sabotaging themselves. They don't understand they are part of a larger interdependent community. They are God's chosen and if they are pure enough God will provide.
2013-10-02 02:58:15 PM  
2 votes:

dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.


I think you misunderstand the meaning of the word "exclusive" and also the Constitution. The "power of the purse" does not mean that the Senate has to pass whatever crap the House comes up with.
2013-10-02 02:55:39 PM  
2 votes:
Things will start to happen when people like the Koch Brothers start to lose money over this. Until then we're screwed.
2013-10-02 02:53:44 PM  
2 votes:

naturalbornposer: Slaves2Darkness: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

If he did I would start the revolution. Understand I'm a liberal Democrat, but if the President starts arresting people for shiat like this it's time to execute people like you.

Agreed. Different beliefs are different. We're supposed to work together, not stonewall each other like the present government is doing. If we tried to erradicate everyone that disagrees with what we think is "right", everyone dies.


You are not correctly diagnosing what is going on here.

There already is "comprimise", and bipartisan support to pass a clean CR bill.   If Boehner let it hit the Congressional Floor, which has already cleared with bipatisan support in the Senate, it would easily pass with votes from both sides of the aisle.

The issue is that a small faction of neo-confederate, anti-government insurrectionists and anarchists who believe they have been sent to Washington by their constituents to sabotage government from the inside.   They're holding our   governance hostage by the threat of the gun.  The Republican Party leadership is too weak and dickless to get them to fall in line, and the Democrats can't set a precedent of rewarding hostage taking tactics.
2013-10-02 02:52:02 PM  
2 votes:

Glockenspiel Hero: 2) Pelosi tells Boehner that she'll get the D's to keep him as Speaker


He can't be speaker for long if he doesn't get reelected in 2014.
2013-10-02 02:39:37 PM  
2 votes:

Garet Garrett: They must be godawfully tired from carrying so much water for the administration over this whole mess (I'm looking at you, NPR).


You've got to be kidding.
2013-10-02 02:38:47 PM  
2 votes:

somedude210: Reid blinked...

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/326137-reid-off er s-to-talk-tax-reform-if-gop-funds-government



I don't think it's a blink to offer to talk about something completely different from the GOP's demands. If a single thing is taken away from the ACA, THEN that will be a blink.
2013-10-02 02:37:48 PM  
2 votes:

Garet Garrett: I certainly hope this comes to an end, if only for the poor souls in the media.  They must be godawfully tired from carrying so much water for the administration over this whole mess (I'm looking at you, NPR). It can't be easy running interview after interview trying to whip up outrage over the shutdown only to find that the people who've been furloughed are, literally and nominally, non-essential.


Says the guy carrying water for the GOP House.
2013-10-02 02:31:25 PM  
2 votes:

nekom: The GOP is right about one thing: Good or bad, this IS their FINAL chance to stop the ACA. I don't think it's going to happen, but if they don't stop it now, they're never going to.


This is true.  They've been railing against Obamacare since the day it became law.  40+ times they've tried to repeal it.  If they don't stop it now, they'll have failed their base voters.  They've really backed themselves into a corner, and have nothing left to fight with but a shutdown and default.
2013-10-02 02:30:15 PM  
2 votes:
You don't negotiate with terrorists.
2013-10-02 02:30:12 PM  
2 votes:

quickdraw: nekom: I'd wager that if that's all it took, they'd have a deal. The GOP is right about one thing: Good or bad, this IS their FINAL chance to stop the ACA. I don't think it's going to happen, but if they don't stop it now, they're never going to.

No. Their final chance to stop ACA like this was before it was put into law. There are processes in place for repealing laws - this isnt it. This is one in a long series of maneuvers to dismantle the US government and place restrictions on reproductive rights.

Ignoring this is like sitting with a guy at a bar and he says  "This drink is drugged. If you drink this I will take you out in a back alley and beat you" and then you drink it and find yourself being beaten in a back alley.

They have been clear for several decades now what their goal is. Perhaps we should take them at their word.


No, their chance was in the courts. The Supremes decided it was constitutional and therefor now law. That is when they lost the fight.
2013-10-02 02:28:15 PM  
2 votes:
Ever get the feeling that the Senate and House Republicans are akin to the Russian frontliners in WWI? Reality is the opposition, and behind them is the Tea Party, cheering and shouting... and ready to shoot anyone who dares run away.
2013-10-02 02:26:52 PM  
2 votes:
Meeting better go like this:

i.perezhilton.com
2013-10-02 02:22:47 PM  
2 votes:

nekom: I'd wager that if that's all it took, they'd have a deal. The GOP is right about one thing: Good or bad, this IS their FINAL chance to stop the ACA. I don't think it's going to happen, but if they don't stop it now, they're never going to.


No. Their final chance to stop ACA like this was before it was put into law. There are processes in place for repealing laws - this isnt it. This is one in a long series of maneuvers to dismantle the US government and place restrictions on reproductive rights.

Ignoring this is like sitting with a guy at a bar and he says  "This drink is drugged. If you drink this I will take you out in a back alley and beat you" and then you drink it and find yourself being beaten in a back alley.

They have been clear for several decades now what their goal is. Perhaps we should take them at their word.
2013-10-02 02:19:10 PM  
2 votes:

nekom: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

Hyperbole much?

But seriously, if he has any balls, he won't blink.  He needs to get a little bit more out ahead of this and explain to the American people why this is the GOP's fault, as tempting as it is to ignore them until they coma around you know the GOP is doing everything in their power to spin this into a Democrat shutdown.


The GOP is flailing right now.  The best thing Obama can do is wait.  American people are all coming to the realization that the GOP farked this up.  When this is common knowledge, then Obama should come out and lay the smack down on the GOP.   He shouldn't rush this speech.  He's smarter to target impacted groups one-by-one (veterans, park workers, contractors working for the Government) in a series of small speeches.  Hold off on the big speech until the public is begging for it.  The GOP is doing a very good job cannibalizing themselves as it stands.
2013-10-02 02:13:57 PM  
2 votes:

JerseyTim: Ok, between Boehner and McConnell, which one is Lando and which one is Han?


What?  No, neither of them is that cool.  They're both Jar Jar.
2013-10-02 02:13:33 PM  
2 votes:
"The longer this goes on the longer it will take to restore things to normalcy, the more your constituents will suffer, and the angrier they will become with you. Let me assure you, gentlemen, your districts will be the very last to have their funding restored."
2013-10-02 02:13:21 PM  
2 votes:
Step 1: Obama invites congressional leadership to white house
Step 2: Obama isn't there, but secret service is
Step 3: Have secret service lock them in room without food or drink
Step 4: Obama goes to Asia as planned
Step 5: Obama returns 2 weeks later to either a reopened government, or 4 dead former congressional leaders

Win-Win
2013-10-02 02:11:28 PM  
2 votes:

SkinnyHead: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

Seeing as how Obama agreed to postpone Obamacare penalties for big business for a year, its only fair that individual citizens -- the 99% -- should get the same consideration.  And it is also fair to require members of congress to live with Obamacare like everyone else, without getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to ease the pain.

As for scrambling to save face, the article says that Obama is the one who summoned the congressional leaders to the table.  That means he's got to put something on the table.  I think he will decide to delay the individual mandate and end the subsidies on his own, in exchange for a clean CR.


And I think you're high as a kite. Thats the only way any of that garbage makes sense.
2013-10-02 02:08:12 PM  
2 votes:

SkinnyHead: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

Seeing as how Obama agreed to postpone Obamacare penalties for big business for a year, its only fair that individual citizens -- the 99% -- should get the same consideration.  And it is also fair to require members of congress to live with Obamacare like everyone else, without getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to ease the pain.

As for scrambling to save face, the article says that Obama is the one who summoned the congressional leaders to the table.  That means he's got to put something on the table.  I think he will decide to delay the individual mandate and end the subsidies on his own, in exchange for a clean CR.


I appreciate that you have to completely misrepresent the Vitter Amendment in order to argue for it.
2013-10-02 01:59:25 PM  
2 votes:

Nadie_AZ: quickdraw: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

This is exactly the mess they want. They want to bring the country to it's knees. Instead of dickering about who will blink and whatnot we should be asking ourselves what exactly the GOP intends to do once they have completely debilitated the country.

And then we will know what we have to do to try to save it.

I think they wanted power. They have been angry at not having the White House ever since McCain lost. This is an effort to make the Democratic president look weak. They simply want power.



I just think we have to listen to these people when they say they want dismantle the government and make us all adhere to their biblical interpretation of reproductive rights.

I mean - yeah - I laughed in the 80s when I heard this dominionist plot but Im not laughing anymore. These people are zealots and mean what they say. Shame on the networks too - they are totally complicit in this.

/a pox on all their houses!
2013-10-02 01:51:19 PM  
2 votes:

quickdraw: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

This is exactly the mess they want. They want to bring the country to it's knees. Instead of dickering about who will blink and whatnot we should be asking ourselves what exactly the GOP intends to do once they have completely debilitated the country.

And then we will know what we have to do to try to save it.


This isn't a brains kind of operation.  They aren't planning any further ahead than their noses.
2013-10-02 01:50:20 PM  
2 votes:

quickdraw: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

This is exactly the mess they want. They want to bring the country to it's knees. Instead of dickering about who will blink and whatnot we should be asking ourselves what exactly the GOP intends to do once they have completely debilitated the country.

And then we will know what we have to do to try to save it.


I think they wanted power. They have been angry at not having the White House ever since McCain lost. This is an effort to make the Democratic president look weak. They simply want power.
2013-10-02 01:47:34 PM  
2 votes:

James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.


This is exactly the mess they want. They want to bring the country to it's knees. Instead of dickering about who will blink and whatnot we should be asking ourselves what exactly the GOP intends to do once they have completely debilitated the country.

And then we will know what we have to do to try to save it.
2013-10-02 01:40:27 PM  
2 votes:

SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.


You should get to the nearest poison center. I think you ate too much peyote.
2013-10-02 01:36:55 PM  
2 votes:

SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.


What's scary about this post is that I genuinely think a lot of House GOPers believe this.
2013-10-02 01:11:05 PM  
2 votes:

NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.


I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.
2013-10-02 01:10:23 PM  
2 votes:

NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.


Hyperbole much?

But seriously, if he has any balls, he won't blink.  He needs to get a little bit more out ahead of this and explain to the American people why this is the GOP's fault, as tempting as it is to ignore them until they coma around you know the GOP is doing everything in their power to spin this into a Democrat shutdown.
2013-10-02 12:37:10 PM  
2 votes:

DamnYankees: WhoIsWillo: DamnYankees: This is actually slightly different. I think negotiating over the CR is actually perfectly valid. It's negotiating over the debt cieling which needs to be killed right now. That can't possibly be permitted to continue.

Actually, the West Wing episode 'Shutdown' was about a disagreement about a CR. The White House had agreed to a 1% reduction, the Speaker insisted on a 3%. Bartlet, seeing his strategy was a part of a larger attempt to dismantle the federal government and eliminate all of his initiatives, shut down the government and would work to continue it until he reached an equitable agreement.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's why I think the situation today is different, because its going to involve the debt ceiling.


I think the unreasonableness comes not from negotiating over a continuing resolution, but from what's on the table. The Republicans are offering to fund the government for 90 days in return for major concessions on an important piece of policy. 90 days.

That's like the White Sox asking the Twins to trade Joe Mauer in return for four whole fried chickens and a coke. And, you know, if they don't get what they want then there won't be any baseball.
2013-10-02 12:30:31 PM  
2 votes:

DamnYankees: WhoIsWillo: DamnYankees: Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 850x479]

"And I said no."

This is actually slightly different. I think negotiating over the CR is actually perfectly valid. It's negotiating over the debt cieling which needs to be killed right now. That can't possibly be permitted to continue.


If the disagreement were over the amount of spending I would agree with you. No way and no how should the POTUS even entertain the idea that the ACA is a  bargaining chip.
2013-10-02 10:53:30 PM  
1 votes:

pdkl95: I don't actually *want* such an outcome, but recognize that if it has to happen, you might as well try to *win*.


i.imgur.com

"Mr. President, we are rapidly approaching a moment of truth both for ourselves as human beings and for the life of our nation. Now, the truth is not always a pleasant thing, but it is necessary now make a choice, to choose between two admittedly regrettable, but nevertheless, distinguishable post-war environments: one where you got twenty million people killed, and the other where you got a hundred and fifty million people killed."

/first thing I thought of
2013-10-02 10:32:28 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Obama, if you fall for this, you're a dumbass.


If he falls for this, it would be a pretty clear statement about where his loyalties are. There's no way he doens't understand that you don't pay the danegeld.

DamnYankees: Obama should reject both of those choices. And I don't know what a third option would even look like.


We could always simply shoot the people holding the country hostage. That's always a fall-back option in hostage situations. Given how dramatically this mess has been escalating in recent times towards civil war, and at some point, getting in the first shot with the element of surprise is a better strategy than wasting resources in a futile effort to hold back the tide.

/for the record, I don't actually *want* such an outcome, but recognize that if it has to happen, you might as well try to *win*.
2013-10-02 10:16:47 PM  
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: "John, you are not more important than the 300,000,000 Americans in this country. Bring a clean bill to the floor, or I will make sure all of them blame you for this. In return, I offer you this lovely bottle of Wild Turkey. Enjoy."


Mr. Speaker,
Man up, (or hand the gavel back to) Nancy.
2013-10-02 08:58:03 PM  
1 votes:

FormlessOne: The "conference" was will clearly be a verbal dopeslap to Boehner, and a blunt reminder that, right now, the only folks being politically damaged by the shutdown are the folks that didn't do their jobs.


FTFM.
2013-10-02 08:56:51 PM  
1 votes:

"We've got them right where they want us!"

Yeah. This is going to go well. The Senate did their job. The White House did their job. The House didn't do their job. The "conference" was clearly a verbal dopeslap to Boehner, and a blunt reminder that, right now, the only folks being politically damaged by the shutdown are the folks that didn't do their jobs.
2013-10-02 08:35:43 PM  
1 votes:
EVERY military base in a Tea Party district is now to be scheduled for immediate closure - with prejudice.

/and glee
2013-10-02 08:27:58 PM  
1 votes:

naturalbornposer: InmanRoshi: naturalbornposer: Slaves2Darkness: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

If he did I would start the revolution. Understand I'm a liberal Democrat, but if the President starts arresting people for shiat like this it's time to execute people like you.

Agreed. Different beliefs are different. We're supposed to work together, not stonewall each other like the present government is doing. If we tried to erradicate everyone that disagrees with what we think is "right", everyone dies.

You are not correctly diagnosing what is going on here.

There already is "comprimise", and bipartisan support to pass a clean CR bill.   If Boehner let it hit the Congressional Floor, which has already cleared with bipatisan support in the Senate, it would easily pass with votes from both sides of the aisle.

The issue is that a small faction of neo-confederate, anti-government insurrectionists and anarchists who believe they have been sent to Washington by their constituents to sabotage government from the inside.   They're holding our   governance hostage by the threat of the gun.  The Republican Party leadership is too weak and dickless to get them to fall in line, and the Democrats can't set a precedent of rewarding hostage taking tactics.

The thing to remember is this "minority" you describe represents a large portion of the nation, not ten fringe extremists. This us and them attitude is going to split this nation in half, if not quarters (yay fractions!). Both sides are to blame for demonizing each other. Even in a 70-30 win, 30% of our nation feels they're getting shafted. Not 30 people, 30 percent. In a nation of over three hundred million that is 90,000,000 people feeling like someone else is dictating their lives against their will. Let that set in. You don't like it when its done to you.


Have you ever looked at an intelligence bell curve? On which end would you guess the overwhelming majority of your hypothetical 30% lies?

Yes, they get to vote. No, the derp minority does not get to control national policy.
2013-10-02 08:25:26 PM  
1 votes:
2013-10-02 08:16:45 PM  
1 votes:

FeFiFoFark: I have concluded that Fark is a liberal echo chamber.


When I first started lurking and then posting it was anything but that. It was a very right-wing Politics tab solidly behind the Iraq war/occupation with just a few lefties. Now I think its gone to my left, but then again I define myself as a right-wing Green Party guy. I don't mind. I expect it will eventually swing back again like my pendulous genitals when I walk.
2013-10-02 07:35:52 PM  
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: WUSA replayed Boehner's very short remarks. Testy, repeated talking points, took no questions. Stormed off.
Somebody got a spanking.


Sounds like that same someone's going to have to head back out to his right flank and try to convince them that, no, despite what they've all been saying the Democrats appear to be quite serious this time.

Oh, to be a fly on that wall for that conversation.
2013-10-02 07:31:44 PM  
1 votes:

Shrugging Atlas: DamnYankees: Deucednuisance: WUSA replayed Boehner's very short remarks. Testy, repeated talking points, took no questions. Stormed off.

Somebody got a spanking.

Also a little odd McConell wasn't there with him.

I think it's really telling.  He's got a primary fight and then a legit Dem candidate to face assuming he wins that.  He probably views Boehner as purely farking toxic under those circumstances, especially if Boehner made it clear in the meeting he has no intention of backing down.  McConell is a goofy looking fark, but he can read polls like everyone else and has to know this is going to be a disaster for the GOP if it goes on any longer.  He's going to let Boehner hang for this all on his own.


Good! But I repeat myself.

/good
2013-10-02 07:30:39 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Deucednuisance: WUSA replayed Boehner's very short remarks. Testy, repeated talking points, took no questions. Stormed off.

Somebody got a spanking.

Also a little odd McConell wasn't there with him.


I think it's really telling.  He's got a primary fight and then a legit Dem candidate to face assuming he wins that.  He probably views Boehner as purely farking toxic under those circumstances, especially if Boehner made it clear in the meeting he has no intention of backing down.  McConell is a goofy looking fark, but he can read polls like everyone else and has to know this is going to be a disaster for the GOP if it goes on any longer.  He's going to let Boehner hang for this all on his own.
2013-10-02 07:25:07 PM  
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: WUSA replayed Boehner's very short remarks. Testy, repeated talking points, took no questions. Stormed off.

Somebody got a spanking.



Surprised he didn't cry... Must not have had his afternoon High Ball.
2013-10-02 07:24:54 PM  
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: WUSA replayed Boehner's very short remarks. Testy, repeated talking points, took no questions. Stormed off.

Somebody got a spanking.


Good!
2013-10-02 07:19:05 PM  
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: DamnYankees: Deucednuisance: Just announced: no deal, no negotiations to come.

Cite? Not seeing it on twitter, which always has stuff first.

Presser, live on WUSA Channel 9. Reid and Pelosi speaking firmly, GOP has stomped off.


What a damn relief.
2013-10-02 07:17:41 PM  
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: WUSA replayed Boehner's very short remarks. Testy, repeated talking points, took no questions. Stormed off.

Somebody got a spanking.


Also a little odd McConell wasn't there with him.
2013-10-02 07:13:29 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: AngryDragon: Lando Lincoln: AngryDragon: [i.imgur.com image 375x347]

It's coming.  You know it is.

I really hope you're wrong.

I really hope I am too.  The Democrats have a habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory though.

Old, tired and stupid meme is old, tired and stupid.

How many successful election cycles do we need before we bury that retarded meme?


Consider this my apology.  I'm stunned, but the Democrats stood their ground.

Very impressive.
2013-10-02 07:10:49 PM  
1 votes:

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: I think it's a combination of both. If you pair the idea that "free markets provide the best solutions in all cases" with a flavor of Christianityheresy that says "your success in this life proves your godliness," you get this weird feedback loop where more money means you are more loved by your God who will reward you with more money. Anything which impedes that in any way, such as taxes or regulations on businesses, are not only an economic affront, but also a religious one, because their core religious beliefs are intertwined with their economic and political beliefs.


FTFY.  The prosperity gospel goes directly against the teachings of Jesus.
2013-10-02 07:10:32 PM  
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: DamnYankees: Deucednuisance: Just announced: no deal, no negotiations to come.

Cite? Not seeing it on twitter, which always has stuff first.

Presser, live on WUSA Channel 9. Reid and Pelosi speaking firmly, GOP has stomped off.


And to clarify, WUSA is the CBS affiliate for Washington, DC.
2013-10-02 07:10:10 PM  
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: DamnYankees: Deucednuisance: Just announced: no deal, no negotiations to come.

Cite? Not seeing it on twitter, which always has stuff first.

Presser, live on WUSA Channel 9. Reid and Pelosi speaking firmly, GOP has stomped off.


Good!
2013-10-02 07:09:31 PM  
1 votes:

quizzical: Anything less than a clean CR just encourages the Republicans to pull this shiat again during the debt ceiling fight, or again in six weeks when the CR runs out.



Yep... Do your farking jobs, House GOP, then, maybe, you'll get to talk about whatever nonsense you think is important afterwards.

Like goddamned children throwing a temper tantrum in the toy aisle at WalMart. Too bad we can't just drag them outside by their ears and give them a good swift kick in the ass.
2013-10-02 07:01:59 PM  
1 votes:

AngryDragon: Shrugging Atlas: DamnYankees: Robert Costa @robertcostaNRO
breaking: I'm hearing from several House Rs that Boehner is angling for a grand fiscal bargain, Camp and Ryan talking about it to colleagues


Obama, if you fall for this, you're a dumbass.

ohgeeznotshiatshiatagain.jpg

I told you guys.

Capitulation is coming.  Goddamn Democrats.


It appears you told us wrong:

Deucednuisance: Just announced: no deal, no negotiations to come.

2013-10-02 07:01:56 PM  
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: Just announced: no deal, no negotiations to come.


Good.  We shouldn't negotiate with these guys.  They can do their jobs, or they get nothing.
2013-10-02 07:00:48 PM  
1 votes:

Shrugging Atlas: Maybe the fear is irrational in the current situation, but it's not without some basis.


I wouldn't say it's irrational.  It's just that Obama has had his "Please proceed" face on this week, and I'm optimistic he'll stick to it.   He needs to get a clean CR through, and then they can talk about whatever they need to for the budget.  Anything less than a clean CR just encourages the Republicans to pull this shiat again during the debt ceiling fight, or again in six weeks when the CR runs out.
2013-10-02 07:00:25 PM  
1 votes:
Just announced: no deal, no negotiations to come.
2013-10-02 06:59:17 PM  
1 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: DamnYankees: cameroncrazy1984: This seems like a face-saving attempt. And if the meeting went anything like we think it did, it won't go very far.

Clutch2013: ...What the hell is a "grand fiscal bargain"?

Here's the thing. This "grand fiscal bargain" can mean one of two things to me, both of which imply Obama should slam the door in the GOP's face:

1) It means the GOP is actually willing to increase revenue. Of course, if they are willing to do this and make an actual concession, there's no need for this to be tied to the CR or the debt limit. Just pass those first, and then we can trade revenue for spending cuts.

2) It just means the GOP wants to get more entitlement cuts in exchange for literally nothing.

Obama should reject both of those choices. And I don't know what a third option would even look like.

Or he's just pulling shiat out of ass to make himself look like he's in the loop


Poisoning the well.

The GOP can latch on to this rumor, then beat Obama and Reid over the head with it.
2013-10-02 06:39:17 PM  
1 votes:

Evil High Priest: Unfortunately, the rumor is easy to believe given Obama's past performance. I keep thinking maybe he's learned his lesson, finally. We'll see. In any case, getting anything useful through the House without dem support is essentially impossible now so it really doesn't matter what Boner agrees to.


That's why this smacks of Boehner still trying to pretend like he's in charge.
2013-10-02 06:38:24 PM  
1 votes:

Soup4Bonnie: Peter von Nostrand: Or he's just pulling shiat out of ass to make himself look like he's in the loop

He's not the only one reporting it.

Jeff Zeleny @jeffzeleny

Is a Grand Bargain coming back to the capital this fall? That's what Hill leaders are telling @ABC today. A CR/debt fight deal brewing.


Or maybe I am. Your call
2013-10-02 06:34:47 PM  
1 votes:

Peter von Nostrand: Or he's just pulling shiat out of ass to make himself look like he's in the loop


He's not the only one reporting it.

Jeff Zeleny @jeffzeleny

Is a Grand Bargain coming back to the capital this fall? That's what Hill leaders are telling @ABC today. A CR/debt fight deal brewing.
2013-10-02 06:31:57 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: cameroncrazy1984: This seems like a face-saving attempt. And if the meeting went anything like we think it did, it won't go very far.

Clutch2013: ...What the hell is a "grand fiscal bargain"?

Here's the thing. This "grand fiscal bargain" can mean one of two things to me, both of which imply Obama should slam the door in the GOP's face:

1) It means the GOP is actually willing to increase revenue. Of course, if they are willing to do this and make an actual concession, there's no need for this to be tied to the CR or the debt limit. Just pass those first, and then we can trade revenue for spending cuts.

2) It just means the GOP wants to get more entitlement cuts in exchange for literally nothing.

Obama should reject both of those choices. And I don't know what a third option would even look like.


Or he's just pulling shiat out of ass to make himself look like he's in the loop
2013-10-02 06:31:35 PM  
1 votes:

parasol: Which sort of begs the question - if nothing but for historians - are the Tea Party members so ignorant as to their own government and it's underpinnings (ie why the FDA is nice to have) or are they already living so far off the grid they really DON'T care?
Keeping in mind this "faction" is comprised of preppers and self-proclaimed patriots and so on? (NTTIAWIT)
Its an interesting mix of "don't need gov't programs because I am a "have" and "don't need gov't programs because I am paranoid and self-reliant"
The comments from this group scare me - because, as has been mentioned here for days? They don't seem to care about the complex fiscal structure of the US and how many ways things can go wrong.
They don't need to - they are "ready for the revolution"


I think it's a combination of both. If you pair the idea that "free markets provide the best solutions in all cases" with a flavor of Christianity that says "your success in this life proves your godliness," you get this weird feedback loop where more money means you are more loved by your God who will reward you with more money. Anything which impedes that in any way, such as taxes or regulations on businesses, are not only an economic affront, but also a religious one, because their core religious beliefs are intertwined with their economic and political beliefs.

Obamacare pulls this even further. Not only is the evil tax man stealing money from you that was provided by god for your righteousness, he's breaking the fundamental belief that "good people are rewarded and bad people are punished," because, well, if God had wanted to reward those people, he already would have.

Then again, I had an argument with a guy one day who basically said, "We should get rid of the FDA and USDA, and let the free market take control, because people will naturally gravitate to the companies that kill the fewest people," so some of them just don't give a fark.
2013-10-02 06:29:50 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: This seems like a face-saving attempt. And if the meeting went anything like we think it did, it won't go very far.


Clutch2013: ...What the hell is a "grand fiscal bargain"?


Here's the thing. This "grand fiscal bargain" can mean one of two things to me, both of which imply Obama should slam the door in the GOP's face:

1) It means the GOP is actually willing to increase revenue. Of course, if they are willing to do this and make an actual concession, there's no need for this to be tied to the CR or the debt limit. Just pass those first, and then we can trade revenue for spending cuts.

2) It just means the GOP wants to get more entitlement cuts in exchange for literally nothing.

Obama should reject both of those choices. And I don't know what a third option would even look like.
2013-10-02 06:25:56 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Robert Costa @robertcostaNRO
breaking: I'm hearing from several House Rs that Boehner is angling for a grand fiscal bargain, Camp and Ryan talking about it to colleagues


Obama, if you fall for this, you're a dumbass.


This seems like a face-saving attempt. And if the meeting went anything like we think it did, it won't go very far.
2013-10-02 06:22:54 PM  
1 votes:
Robert Costa @robertcostaNRO
breaking: I'm hearing from several House Rs that Boehner is angling for a grand fiscal bargain, Camp and Ryan talking about it to colleagues


Obama, if you fall for this, you're a dumbass.
2013-10-02 06:18:49 PM  
1 votes:

KarmicDisaster: parasol: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: KarmicDisaster: The tea Party has been planning this shutdown for a long time. It's what they wanted. Obamacare is just the excuse.

It's practically their dream come true. These are some departments that are closed or mostly closed:

USDA inspections, food stamps, the Smithsonian, National Science Foundation, Department of Commerce, Department of Education, National Labor Relations Board, OSHA, National Gallery of Art, Federal Trade Commission, National Parks, Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission, Federal Election Commission, Federal Communications Commission, FDIC Office of the Inspector General, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, and U.S. courts close in ten days.

Everything else is on until the money runs out.

It's Christmas in Derpghanistan.

Based on what I've seen in freeperville you are depressingly correct - it went from amusing, to odd, to frightening awful fast

That's the thing, there won't be any deal. That's why the Teaparty is asking for their impossible laundry list as well as defunding ACA.  Their goal was to "shuterdown". They have accomplished that, and they aren't going to give that sense of power up. They have accomplised more economic terrorism with this attack than any group of terrorists ever did, and until regular republicans revolt and kick them out, which is going to take a lot, they will persist because attacking the US government was their goal.


Which sort of begs the question - if nothing but for historians - are the Tea Party members so ignorant as to their own government and it's underpinnings (ie why the FDA is nice to have) or are they already living so far off the grid they really DON'T care?
Keeping in mind this "faction" is comprised of preppers and self-proclaimed patriots and so on? (NTTIAWIT)
Its an interesting mix of "don't need gov't programs because I am a "have" and "don't need gov't programs because I am paranoid and self-reliant"
The comments from this group scare me - because, as has been mentioned here for days? They don't seem to care about the complex fiscal structure of the US and how many ways things can go wrong.
They don't need to - they are "ready for the revolution"
2013-10-02 06:13:30 PM  
1 votes:
I heard that C-Span isn't actually funded by the government at all.  Can someone please confirm this?
2013-10-02 06:10:36 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Random question - if the government is shutdown, how is C-SPAN working? Does it have some other funding source?


http://lmwtfy.de/?q=c-span
2013-10-02 06:09:01 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Random question - if the government is shutdown, how is C-SPAN working? Does it have some other funding source?


"C-SPAN is a nonprofit organization, funded by a 6-cent per subscriber affiliate fee paid by its cable and satellite affiliates" according to Wikipedia.
2013-10-02 05:43:59 PM  
1 votes:

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: KarmicDisaster: The tea Party has been planning this shutdown for a long time. It's what they wanted. Obamacare is just the excuse.

It's practically their dream come true. These are some departments that are closed or mostly closed:

USDA inspections, food stamps, the Smithsonian, National Science Foundation, Department of Commerce, Department of Education, National Labor Relations Board, OSHA, National Gallery of Art, Federal Trade Commission, National Parks, Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission, Federal Election Commission, Federal Communications Commission, FDIC Office of the Inspector General, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, and U.S. courts close in ten days.

Everything else is on until the money runs out.

It's Christmas in Derpghanistan.


Based on what I've seen in freeperville you are depressingly correct - it went from amusing, to odd, to frightening awful fast
2013-10-02 05:41:37 PM  
1 votes:

Klom Dark: sinanju: If the GOP wants to negotiate, Obama should start with a comprehensive firearms ban in exchange for defunding Obamacare.  Not assault weapons -- firearms.  All of them.

No, don't tie in this gun grabbing crap. I'm a two time Obama voter, but do not agree with the gun-grabby stuff. It's too "American" for many Obama voters. That's an integral right of being a US Citizen: we can get guns if we want them.


I picked that example specifically because it is ridiculous.  As ridiculous as defunding Obamacare -- an act that would drive up the deficit -- while simultaneously claiming to be concerned about the debt limit.
2013-10-02 05:41:23 PM  
1 votes:

Bf+: jst3p: cameroncrazy1984: Dusk-You-n-Me: Bane of Broone: If agreeing that 2+2=4 makes it an echo chamber then yes.

Dem: 2+2=4
Rep: 2+2=5
Media: 2+2=4.5

This is 100% accurate.

60% of the time, he is right every time.


FoxNews: 2+2=7


i disagree FoxNews: 2+2 = AMERICA
2013-10-02 05:41:13 PM  
1 votes:

Bf+: jst3p: cameroncrazy1984: Dusk-You-n-Me: Bane of Broone: If agreeing that 2+2=4 makes it an echo chamber then yes.

Dem: 2+2=4
Rep: 2+2=5
Media: 2+2=4.5

This is 100% accurate.

60% of the time, he is right every time.


FoxNews: 2+2=7


Fox news viewer:

2+2= Potato
2013-10-02 05:40:11 PM  
1 votes:

KarmicDisaster: The tea Party has been planning this shutdown for a long time. It's what they wanted. Obamacare is just the excuse.


It's practically their dream come true. These are some departments that are closed or mostly closed:

USDA inspections, food stamps, the Smithsonian, National Science Foundation, Department of Commerce, Department of Education, National Labor Relations Board, OSHA, National Gallery of Art, Federal Trade Commission, National Parks, Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission, Federal Election Commission, Federal Communications Commission, FDIC Office of the Inspector General, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, and U.S. courts close in ten days.

Everything else is on until the money runs out.

It's Christmas in Derpghanistan.
2013-10-02 05:28:11 PM  
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Bane of Broone: If agreeing that 2+2=4 makes it an echo chamber then yes.

Dem: 2+2=4
Rep: 2+2=5
Media: 2+2=4.5


But polls say that the majority of Americans don't like 4, so we should go with 5.
2013-10-02 05:25:55 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Dusk-You-n-Me: Bane of Broone: If agreeing that 2+2=4 makes it an echo chamber then yes.

Dem: 2+2=4
Rep: 2+2=5
Media: 2+2=4.5

This is 100% accurate.


60% of the time, he is right every time.
2013-10-02 05:25:55 PM  
1 votes:

Somacandra: cameroncrazy1984: Saiga410: Bacontastesgood: Saiga410: Um you can negotiate your job and job roles at any time.

Your job contract wasn't written over 200 years ago on parchment.  The house passes a budget, or they aren't doing their job.  Our speaker has deliberately kept a budget from passing.  Not hard.

They did pass a budget.  It is not their fault the dems will not pass a clean version of it through the Senate.

It's not the Senate's job to rubber stamp the House budget. It IS the GOP's fault that they can't take losing.

Also, the Senate passed a budget and then spent the summer asking for a Conference Committee but the Republicans said no.


The tea Party has been planning this shutdown for a long time. It's what they wanted. Obamacare is just the excuse.
2013-10-02 05:25:21 PM  
1 votes:

parasol: Obama - on the phone with Bill Clinton and wishing he still smoked - for, you know, after the meeting


I'm pretty sure that once he's out of office, those two are going to share a bowl. I'll bet Clinton has burned one down with W already.
2013-10-02 05:25:13 PM  
1 votes:

parasol: Well? It's 5:17 on the east cost. this is what i imagine:

Boehner  - staring at himself in the washroom mirror and chewing breath mints

Pelosi - on the phone to a moderate (R)

McConnell - eating lettuce leaves

Reid - stroking the boxing gloves he keeps in a desk drawer

Obama - on the phone with Bill Clinton and wishing he still smoked - for, you know, after the meeting


3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-10-02 05:16:44 PM  
1 votes:

that bosnian sniper: This is just me, but I'd prefer he didn't. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'd much rather he offer Boehner and McConnell a lifeline in exchange for turning on the tea party.


I see where you're coming from, but unless it comes with a written in blood assurance they will

A. Not do this with the debt ceiling in 2 weeks
B. Not do this with any future CRs
C. Name rational people to a conference committee to work with the Senate on an actual budget
D. Stop blocking judicial nominees in the Senate out of spite

then they can both fark off and hang from that life line.

This is more than just about the here and now.  It's about Presidents forevermore having to face situations like this whenever some nutjobs get enough votes in either party, and citizens across the country having to suffer as a result.  It needs to farking end or this nation is just going to be farked in the long run.
2013-10-02 05:10:48 PM  
1 votes:

Skleenar: Dusk-You-n-Me: Oh this is a fun game! Let's also have the GOP vote in line with the will of the people on gun control, raising taxes on the wealthy, and immigration reform. Three quarters of Americans oppose Congress shutting down the federal government to block implementation of the Affordable Care Act. Will of the people doesn't mean dick to them, so don't hold it up like some righteous trophy. It ain't.

How about we have the GOP populate the House or Representative in proportion with the will of the people, too?


Dem votes only count for 3/5ths.

/actually about true in some states
2013-10-02 05:10:28 PM  
1 votes:

Somacandra: cameroncrazy1984: Saiga410: Bacontastesgood: Saiga410: Um you can negotiate your job and job roles at any time.

Your job contract wasn't written over 200 years ago on parchment.  The house passes a budget, or they aren't doing their job.  Our speaker has deliberately kept a budget from passing.  Not hard.

They did pass a budget.  It is not their fault the dems will not pass a clean version of it through the Senate.

It's not the Senate's job to rubber stamp the House budget. It IS the GOP's fault that they can't take losing.

Also, the Senate passed a budget and then spent the summer asking for a Conference Committee but the Republicans said no.


Yep, I mentioned that earlier in this thread, at least about the "passing a budget" part.
2013-10-02 05:10:00 PM  
1 votes:

Garet Garrett: They must be godawfully tired from carrying so much water for the administration over this whole mess (I'm looking at you, NPR).


It's always funny when people harp on the non-existent "liberal bias" in the media. Just yesterday I was listening to NPR and they said something along the lines of "Are you affected by the shutdown? Do you oppose it? We want to hear from you."

I have never heard one of the conservative media outlets solicit opinions they didn't want to hear unless they were preparing an ambush.
2013-10-02 05:04:49 PM  
1 votes:

dr_blasto: cameroncrazy1984: Saiga410: Bacontastesgood: Saiga410: Um you can negotiate your job and job roles at any time.

Your job contract wasn't written over 200 years ago on parchment.  The house passes a budget, or they aren't doing their job.  Our speaker has deliberately kept a budget from passing.  Not hard.

They did pass a budget.  It is not their fault the dems will not pass a clean version of it through the Senate.

It's not the Senate's job to rubber stamp the House budget. It IS the GOP's fault that they can't take losing do math or accept reality.


That's also true.
2013-10-02 05:02:14 PM  
1 votes:

Saiga410: Bacontastesgood: Saiga410: Um you can negotiate your job and job roles at any time.

Your job contract wasn't written over 200 years ago on parchment.  The house passes a budget, or they aren't doing their job.  Our speaker has deliberately kept a budget from passing.  Not hard.

They did pass a budget.  It is not their fault the dems will not pass a clean version of it through the Senate.


It's not the Senate's job to rubber stamp the House budget. It IS the GOP's fault that they can't take losing.
2013-10-02 04:59:18 PM  
1 votes:
The meeting should consist of Obama saying, "are you petulant children done with your temper tantrum and ready to pass a clean CR?"

If no, meeting ajourned.
2013-10-02 04:54:45 PM  
1 votes:
House passed a budget. Wasn't it the Ryan budget? Mr. failed VP nominee? Senate passed their version of a budget and they have not sat down to talk through in conference committee; though given how the sequester went, not seeing good things possibly coming from that. Given the fact that the R party is guano psychotic, the debt ceiling will be breached and two things will happen. Obama pulls a 14th and they try him for impeachment. And mobs of crazy people start burning shiat and people will start going into their bomb shelter because gubbmint coming, they took over, etc. etc. and the fecal matter hits the ventilator.

I want to cry, pull up stakes and flee.
Canada is too cold, and there is too much sun south of the border.
*sigh*
2013-10-02 04:52:30 PM  
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Oh this is a fun game! Let's also have the GOP vote in line with the will of the people on gun control, raising taxes on the wealthy, and immigration reform. Three quarters of Americans oppose Congress shutting down the federal government to block implementation of the Affordable Care Act. Will of the people doesn't mean dick to them, so don't hold it up like some righteous trophy. It ain't.


How about we have the GOP populate the House or Representative in proportion with the will of the people, too?
2013-10-02 04:51:20 PM  
1 votes:

dr_blasto: Somacandra: HuffPo says there are 18 Republicans willing to pass a clean CR. That's 1 more than the magic number. All Boner has to do is bring it up.

Then will the Republicans in the Senate filibuster?


The Senate already passed a clean CR, if the house would vote on that there would be nothing to filibuster.
2013-10-02 04:50:34 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: And they are voting in line with the will of the people. At NO TIME EVER has the majority of Americans been FOR the ACA.. I think the last poll average last week was 38% for and 52% against... so the question is why are the democrats so entrenched in retaining a law that America DOES NOT WANT.


Did those same polls also show that the majority of Americans don't want Obamacare repealed/delayed/defuned?
2013-10-02 04:50:21 PM  
1 votes:
Fark giving the Republicans nothing...

Obama should double down and make his own demands. Tell them go get their tea bagging asses back to The Capitol and send a new bill that increases funding for abortions, food stamps and gay marriage licenses.
2013-10-02 04:49:56 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: Like it or not, the Democrats are the minority.


And yet the teabaggers still can't get what they want. huh.
2013-10-02 04:48:43 PM  
1 votes:
Bacontastesgood: ...McCain and Collins have all but gone on the record telling Cruz to STFU.

Cruz is literally on the record telling Cruz to STFU.
2013-10-02 04:46:06 PM  
1 votes:

dr_blasto: Then will the Republicans in the Senate filibuster?


I doubt they'll have trouble finding 6 to vote for cloture.  McCain and Collins have all but gone on the record telling Cruz to STFU.
2013-10-02 04:44:06 PM  
1 votes:

quizzical: The Republicans in the House who are perusing changes to the ACA are basically pissing into the wind, and they are actively damaging the rest of the country with their intransigence.


At this point they're standing in a wind tunnel buck naked, pissing, letting the piss hit them in the face, swallowing some of it and laughing maniacally.  It's like we showed up for a .38 Special concert and got GG Allin instead, and he's just getting warmed up.
2013-10-02 04:40:50 PM  
1 votes:

Saiga410: They did pass a budget.  It is not their fault the dems will not pass a clean version of it through the Senate.


Uh, the Senate did pass a clean version, that's the one that the House won't pass.  Go back and study your talking points again.  For you guys,  dirty=good, clean = bad, OK?
2013-10-02 04:35:23 PM  
1 votes:

NFA: dr_blasto: NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.

The mouthbreathers have been calling everything tyranny. Health care? Tyranny. Highways? Tyranny. State of the Union speech? Tyranny. Moved Hannity's show off prime time? Tyranny.

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?

Yet when we have an elected official who publicly states her party planned and succeeded in shutting down the US government, this ISN'T treason?  Then we had Senator Lee who said he wanted to "bring the house down" to force a rewrite of the US constitution, this ISN'T treason or at least sedition?


I'm not sure really bad governance and piss-poor political goals rises to treason. The fact that this isn't the first time a Republican-controlled house has thrown a shiat-fit like a five-year-old and farked up the government. It won't be the last. This is definitely cause to never vote for a Republican again, ever. We learned they were bad for the nation, yet this country is stupid enough to have re-elected George farking W Bush. After the early to mid 2000s, we learned, again, that the Republicans should never be allowed to control either part of Congress, yet here we are.

It is a farking travesty that the Republican Party even exists and an even bigger travesty that they've managed to maintain control over 50% of the legislature. But I don't think it is treason. It is closer to malpractice or fraud or general incompetence.

If these collossal douchebags fark up the debt ceiling? Maybe the resulting chaos will get some goddamn attention to their crazy farking false ideology. Conservatism, as it exists in American politics, is a goddamn failure.
2013-10-02 04:34:10 PM  
1 votes:
Oh look... The same disingenuous bullshiat the same disingenuous assholes.

How exciting.
2013-10-02 04:32:04 PM  
1 votes:

netcentric: Much more interesting than just shutting down a few war memorials to make a point.


What? You mean federal monuments are part of the federal government and as a result part of the shutdown?

Damn you Obama!!!
2013-10-02 04:29:59 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: Nothing, except the continued harping on the Republicans being the minority party is a lie.


They're the minority party in the Senate and definitely the minority when it comes to the executive branch. Everyone knows that.
2013-10-02 04:29:33 PM  
1 votes:

skozlaw: Why do people keep saying "deal"? There is no "deal" possible. This is a standard procedural matter which Congress is obligated to undertake. You can't make "deals" to do your basic job. I couldn't just walk into work tomorrow and go up to my boss and say, "Tell you what, chump, I'll make you deal. I'll do the job for which I was hired today, but only if you agree to give me more money. And if you don't, I'll just sit in my office and play with myself all day. Once you agree to my terms, we'll talk again about tomorrow".

It doesn't work that way. This is your job. You don't get to make demands to do your job. Just farking do it. No farking deals. You don't get to demand concessions for performing your most basic job functions.


Part of me wishes this meeting would play out like a scene from The Wire.  The 4 congressional leaders sit there.  The president comes in, flanked by chief of staff and Biden, and sits down.  He looks directly at John Boehner and says "Do your farking job", then gets up and buttons his jacket and walks out.  Boehner gives a surprised and disappointed look.  Scene.
2013-10-02 04:19:59 PM  
1 votes:

Mercutio74: quickdraw: Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.

If the shutdown lasts for months, there won't be a US left.  During that time the US dollar will be in absolute chaos and the world will probably be forced to switch to the Euro as it tries to limit the damage done by the global recession that'll be caused by the US tanking the global economy.


Perhaps that is their plan. Some people just want to watch the world burn. They believe, really believe, in the bible and the last days. They know Jesus is coming and will carry them to safety while the rest of the world suffers as sinners ought to suffer.
2013-10-02 04:16:54 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: quizzical:In my opinion, a minority portion of the minority party in control of government is acting irresponsibly when they pursue an action which they know is FUTILE at the expense of the well-being of the rest of the country.

Factually, the Democrats are the minority party.. you know that don't you?.. there are more republicans (278) elected in the house and senate (combined) than there are Democrats.(252)..


It's a tie.  There's the president, that makes 253.  Biden has the strength of 25 men, so that evens it up at 278.
2013-10-02 04:12:18 PM  
1 votes:

naturalbornposer: InmanRoshi: naturalbornposer: Slaves2Darkness: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

If he did I would start the revolution. Understand I'm a liberal Democrat, but if the President starts arresting people for shiat like this it's time to execute people like you.

Agreed. Different beliefs are different. We're supposed to work together, not stonewall each other like the present government is doing. If we tried to erradicate everyone that disagrees with what we think is "right", everyone dies.

You are not correctly diagnosing what is going on here.

There already is "comprimise", and bipartisan support to pass a clean CR bill.   If Boehner let it hit the Congressional Floor, which has already cleared with bipatisan support in the Senate, it would easily pass with votes from both sides of the aisle.

The issue is that a small faction of neo-confederate, anti-government insurrectionists and anarchists who believe they have been sent to Washington by their constituents to sabotage government from the inside.   They're holding our   governance hostage by the threat of the gun.  The Republican Party leadership is too weak and dickless to get them to fall in line, and the Democrats can't set a precedent of rewarding hostage taking tactics.

The thing to remember is this "minority" you describe represents a large portion of the nation, not ten fringe extremists. This us and them attitude is going to split this nation in half, if not quarters (yay fractions!). Both sides are to blame for demonizing each other. Even in a 70-30 win, 30% of our nation feels they're getting shafted. Not 30 people, 30 percent. In a nation of over three hundred million that is 90,000,000 people feeling like someone else is dictating their lives against their will. Let that set in. You don't like it when its done to you.


Is this kind of like when the President is obviously lying our way into a war of aggression? That would sure suck, wouldn't it?
2013-10-02 04:11:47 PM  
1 votes:

AngryDragon: quickdraw: AngryDragon: I guess we'll see by about 6:30 or so. I'll meet you right here. If I'm wrong I will happily apologize. I have a bad feeling about this though.

I understand your frustration but there is, actually, no way for Dems to capitulate here even if they wanted to. The ACA horse left the barn along time ago and the Dems dont have the power to turn back time anymore than anyone else.

Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.

As someone who just had a health scare I can say this.  My 401K wouldn't like it, but if it means people get helath insurance, I'm all for it.


Well - aside from the fact that ACA is good for the economy. The shutdown will allow corporate interests to act unregulated and unwatched. So depending on how you're invested your 401K may do just fine. If this went against the moneyed interests it wouldnt be happening. Somebody is making a huge profit.
2013-10-02 04:11:07 PM  
1 votes:
static.happyplace.com
2013-10-02 04:09:39 PM  
1 votes:

quickdraw: Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.


If the shutdown lasts for months, there won't be a US left.  During that time the US dollar will be in absolute chaos and the world will probably be forced to switch to the Euro as it tries to limit the damage done by the global recession that'll be caused by the US tanking the global economy.
2013-10-02 04:08:40 PM  
1 votes:

Skleenar: Nunya_Bizness: The only thing I can think is the Republican moderates are attempting to use this episode to purge themselves of the Tea Partiers, much the way Buckley purged the John Birch society in the 60's. I think they may have finally figured out that they will require extensive rebuilding in order to form a relevant party. What they should have done is to point out a few times the significant weaknesses with ACA, in specific the fact that the whole plan requires the young single people to be willing to pay more for health care then they are currently paying or will pay in case of a penalty. Also the fact of EMR requirements for all physicians by 2015 without having any standards addressed for this or specific requirements for HIPAA compliance or certification. Or the physician shortages that are almost sure to follow. Then say nothing and silently rebuild the party and wait for the ACA governmental costs explode which will require a tax hike and then they would be poised to take advantage.

The validity of your specifics aside, if you think that anything in this debate has anything to do with the specifics of the ACA, you're sadly illusioned.


Oh no, I do not think the current Republican party has the intellectual capacity to get that far, sadly we are all the worse off for it.
2013-10-02 04:07:36 PM  
1 votes:

BMulligan: Flab: cameroncrazy1984: Gonz: cameroncrazy1984: Gonz: Mercutio74: flondrix: The president and the heads of both parties in both houses of the legislature in one place at the same time?  Will Biden be there too?

You'd best slap an "only joking" tag on the end of that or you might get a visit from a government agency NOT affected by the shutdown.

There's a difference between pointing out a potential security lapse, and acting on it.

"Hey, you may want to rethink this plan, are you sure it's a good idea?" vs. "Gotta run to 1600 Penna Ave by 5:30 with my gear!".

A security lapse? It's the White House for chrissakes. How is that a security lapse?

I don't personally think it is. However, the guy who initially asked the question was pointing out that the President and the individual #2 in the line of succession are going to be in the same room, along with three other powerful politicians. If the VP was also in the same room, then you have the Big Three all in the same place.

When this happens for States of the Union and such, contingency plans kick in, and some guy who's further down the line watches the speech on TV at Camp David. At least, that's what I read into it.

It was on an episode of The West Wing.

Sure, but not in the Tom Clancy book, though.  Jack Ryan got to be President because he was late to the show and was still in the tunnel when the 747 crashed on the Capitole.

Now, who do you believe?  Clancy or Sorkin?

I'll go with the guy who's still breathing.


memecrunch.com
2013-10-02 04:06:48 PM  
1 votes:

quickdraw: AngryDragon: I guess we'll see by about 6:30 or so. I'll meet you right here. If I'm wrong I will happily apologize. I have a bad feeling about this though.

I understand your frustration but there is, actually, no way for Dems to capitulate here even if they wanted to. The ACA horse left the barn along time ago and the Dems dont have the power to turn back time anymore than anyone else.

Its absurdist theatre and there are only two outcomes - Boehner and friends agree to back down or they revel in their victory of shutting down the govt. I believe they wont back down. I think were going to see this shutdown drag on and on for months because its exactly what they want.


As someone who just had a health scare I can say this.  My 401K wouldn't like it, but if it means people get helath insurance, I'm all for it.
2013-10-02 04:05:31 PM  
1 votes:

snocone: Flab: snocone: Ned Stark: NFA: dr_blasto: NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.

The mouthbreathers have been calling everything tyranny. Health care? Tyranny. Highways? Tyranny. State of the Union speech? Tyranny. Moved Hannity's show off prime time? Tyranny.

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?

Yet when we have an elected official who publicly states her party planned and succeeded in shutting down the US government, this ISN'T treason?  Then we had Senator Lee who said he wanted to "bring the house down" to force a rewrite of the US constitution, this ISN'T treason or at least sedition?

A shutdown? nah. Thats legitimate hardball politics. Defaulting on the debt? If that shiat really goes down treason charges don't sound unreasonable.

So, default is your hard line in sand?
Downgrading was OK, eh?

Being a such a group of clowns that the credit rating agencies think you can't run your country, resulty in a downgrading, is a warning.
Showing the world you are a group of clowns that can't run your country, is the real problem.

Other than hanging or, my personal favorite, piking, do you really see a solution to this problem?
The 1% like their clowns.


Guillotines, dude. They bring a certain air of refinement and sophistication to these affairs.
2013-10-02 03:59:31 PM  
1 votes:

Nunya_Bizness: The only thing I can think is the Republican moderates are attempting to use this episode to purge themselves of the Tea Partiers, much the way Buckley purged the John Birch society in the 60's. I think they may have finally figured out that they will require extensive rebuilding in order to form a relevant party. What they should have done is to point out a few times the significant weaknesses with ACA, in specific the fact that the whole plan requires the young single people to be willing to pay more for health care then they are currently paying or will pay in case of a penalty. Also the fact of EMR requirements for all physicians by 2015 without having any standards addressed for this or specific requirements for HIPAA compliance or certification. Or the physician shortages that are almost sure to follow. Then say nothing and silently rebuild the party and wait for the ACA governmental costs explode which will require a tax hike and then they would be poised to take advantage.


The validity of your specifics aside, if you think that anything in this debate has anything to do with the specifics of the ACA, you're sadly illusioned.
2013-10-02 03:57:52 PM  
1 votes:

Skleenar: jst3p: At the very least it should put an end to "Obama will talk with Putin and Netanyahu but won't even talk with Republicans"? That I keep hearing on AM radio.

The only reason Obama was forced to talk to the Republicans is that they have shown the leadership and steely resolve needed to lead this country to greatness.


Can't tell if ignorant or Poe...
2013-10-02 03:56:33 PM  
1 votes:

Gonz: cameroncrazy1984: Gonz: Mercutio74: flondrix: The president and the heads of both parties in both houses of the legislature in one place at the same time?  Will Biden be there too?

You'd best slap an "only joking" tag on the end of that or you might get a visit from a government agency NOT affected by the shutdown.

There's a difference between pointing out a potential security lapse, and acting on it.

"Hey, you may want to rethink this plan, are you sure it's a good idea?" vs. "Gotta run to 1600 Penna Ave by 5:30 with my gear!".

A security lapse? It's the White House for chrissakes. How is that a security lapse?

I don't personally think it is. However, the guy who initially asked the question was pointing out that the President and the individual #2 in the line of succession are going to be in the same room, along with three other powerful politicians. If the VP was also in the same room, then you have the Big Three all in the same place.

When this happens for States of the Union and such, contingency plans kick in, and some guy who's further down the line watches the speech on TV at Camp David. At least, that's what I read into it.


It was on an episode of The West Wing.
2013-10-02 03:54:22 PM  
1 votes:

snocone: Ned Stark: NFA: dr_blasto: NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.

The mouthbreathers have been calling everything tyranny. Health care? Tyranny. Highways? Tyranny. State of the Union speech? Tyranny. Moved Hannity's show off prime time? Tyranny.

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?

Yet when we have an elected official who publicly states her party planned and succeeded in shutting down the US government, this ISN'T treason?  Then we had Senator Lee who said he wanted to "bring the house down" to force a rewrite of the US constitution, this ISN'T treason or at least sedition?

A shutdown? nah. Thats legitimate hardball politics. Defaulting on the debt? If that shiat really goes down treason charges don't sound unreasonable.

So, default is your hard line in sand?
Downgrading was OK, eh?


My hardline? Naw I don't really care, torch the place.

I just wouldn't find it unreasonable for others to draw it there. Because not paying bills already incurred really is an attack on America in a way that just not spending money isn't.
2013-10-02 03:48:21 PM  
1 votes:
The GOP keeps wanting to turn this into some kind of populist uprising, but that's complete bullshiat.

If the House speaks for the people then perhaps they could just hold a vote on a clean CR and see if it passes.

If it does, isn't that the will of the people? Or would that not count simply because it would largely be Democrats and a few Republicans voting for it?

The Tea Party has the audacity to claim that they speak for the people while at the same time demanding the squelching of other freely elected representatives.

So fark 'em.
2013-10-02 03:48:11 PM  
1 votes:

Zerochance: jst3p: At the very least it should put an end to "Obama will talk with Putin and Netanyahu but won't even talk with Republicans"? That I keep hearing on AM radio.

Two weeks ago, Republican breath stunk of Putin's cock.  It was bizarre.

It would be hilarious if they're now back to referring to him as an antagonist.  I think you may mean Iran, in which case, Jon Stewart put it best:  if Obama can make a deal with a bunch of Iranian Muslim hardliners, maybe he's not the problem.


Yeah, I meant Rouhani I think, I get all Sarah Palin when it comes to foreign policy.
2013-10-02 03:45:01 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: the article says that Obama is the one who summoned the congressional leaders to the table. That means he's got to put something on the table


Yeah, but I don't think the Republicans are ready for it yet

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
2013-10-02 03:44:44 PM  
1 votes:

Gonz: Mercutio74: flondrix: The president and the heads of both parties in both houses of the legislature in one place at the same time?  Will Biden be there too?

You'd best slap an "only joking" tag on the end of that or you might get a visit from a government agency NOT affected by the shutdown.

There's a difference between pointing out a potential security lapse, and acting on it.

"Hey, you may want to rethink this plan, are you sure it's a good idea?" vs. "Gotta run to 1600 Penna Ave by 5:30 with my gear!".


A security lapse? It's the White House for chrissakes. How is that a security lapse?
2013-10-02 03:44:32 PM  
1 votes:

NFA: dr_blasto: NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.

The mouthbreathers have been calling everything tyranny. Health care? Tyranny. Highways? Tyranny. State of the Union speech? Tyranny. Moved Hannity's show off prime time? Tyranny.

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?

Yet when we have an elected official who publicly states her party planned and succeeded in shutting down the US government, this ISN'T treason?  Then we had Senator Lee who said he wanted to "bring the house down" to force a rewrite of the US constitution, this ISN'T treason or at least sedition?


A shutdown? nah. Thats legitimate hardball politics. Defaulting on the debt? If that shiat really goes down treason charges don't sound unreasonable.
2013-10-02 03:44:25 PM  
1 votes:

way south: The shutdown is a show being put on to try and shock the public. We can tell its falling on deaf ears since the people haven't charged at congress with torches and pitchforks.


What color is the sky in your world?
2013-10-02 03:44:09 PM  
1 votes:

parasol: Bontesia:
The below article suggests that we'll likely see a deal when the stock market reacts.
www.mercurynews.com/digital-first-media/ci_24222884/why-shutdown-has n t -hit-your-401-k-yet

seems like further proof who and what really run the show



who did Obama meet with earlier today before any congresspeople ?

Wall St.

(President Obama met with JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs  and other top financial industry leaders today to discuss the shutdown as well efforts to raise the federal debt ceiling. )
2013-10-02 03:43:04 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.

That doesn't mean that the Senate is just a rubber stamp for the House.

Republicans and Tea Partiers seem to think otherwise for whatever reason.

Agreed, but all the Senate has the right to do is propose amendments to bills that the House already passed.  One could argue that the Bill that Harry Reid got passed in the Senate the other day is unconstitutional because it is not the Senates job to write new legislation.

You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding. No one can actually write this seriously.


We heard the same thing back with the Stimulus when the Senate took a funding bill from the House, gutted it, and put their proposal in there to send to reconciliation.

People really have no clue how legislation is done.
2013-10-02 03:40:29 PM  
1 votes:
No matter what happens all the blame for this lies in Beohner's lap.  Don't make the mistake of thinking the American people aren't watching this very closely.  Oh and by the way, the rest of the world is laughing at us.  I hope you're happy.  I hope it was worth it.
2013-10-02 03:40:16 PM  
1 votes:

NFA: Yet when we have an elected official who publicly states her party planned and succeeded in shutting down the US government, this ISN'T treason?


No, it isn't

  Then we had Senator Lee who said he wanted to "bring the house down" to force a rewrite of the US constitution, this ISN'T treason or at least sedition?

No, it isn't.

Any other questions?
2013-10-02 03:39:15 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: The GOP should just turn everything back on and pretend the shutdown never happened.


They need one of these:

thaevolutionofosiris.files.wordpress.com
2013-10-02 03:37:40 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: Evil High Priest: Cyclometh: The meeting had better go like this:

"You will pass a clean CR. There is to be no negotiating. There is only one option for getting out of this, and I want to make it clear that you have no others. You can grandstand, go to the media, cry and whine, but neither the Senate nor myself will consider anything but a clean funding bill with no riders. You will do it now, or you will do it later, but you will do it. Now get the fark out of my office and go do your jobs."

If that were the plan, they wouldn't need to have a meeting.

Sure they would. It is to make it utterly clear where things stand and shred any notion that the GOP gets anything from this. Tell them face to face, man to man, exactly what the situation is and there is literally only one path forward.


At the very least it should put an end to "Obama will talk with Putin and Netanyahu but won't even talk with Republicans"? That I keep hearing on AM radio.
2013-10-02 03:36:29 PM  
1 votes:

Lando Lincoln: FeFiFoFark: I have concluded that Fark is a liberal echo chamber.

/NTTAWWT

The majority of Farkers are rational people, which causes one to believe that this is a liberal echo chamber. It's a common mistake.


Reality is our liberal echo chamber.
2013-10-02 03:35:47 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: they can only propose amendments, they cannot create NEW legislation, NEW legislation has to originate in the House.


New legislation that raises revenue has to originate in the House, not all legislation.
2013-10-02 03:34:51 PM  
1 votes:

Heliovdrake: You know that the ACA is in effect right now and not at all hindered by the shutdown right?


Which is interesting since every other project the fed runs is supposed to have a chain across its doors, with workers being dumped out into the streets and all.

The shutdown is a show being put on to try and shock the public. We can tell its falling on deaf ears since the people haven't charged at congress with torches and pitchforks.   Whatever result the Democrats expect won't be coming for another year at best.
The Republicans,who stood the most to lose in a shutdown,have no reason to go begging Obama's forgiveness at this point. They'll get blamed the same regardless, so they've got plenty of time.

Obama can say he won't negotiate, but that just drags this out till we run headlong into the debt ceiling debate. At which point we get to talk about expensive new programs alongside our newest admission that we can't afford to pay for any of it.

/The delay was the political escape from this situation.
/The Right didn't make that clear enough for the left to bite.
/Maybe they should ask Putin to negotiate their behalf.
2013-10-02 03:33:21 PM  
1 votes:
The below article suggests that we'll likely see a deal when the stock market reacts.

www.mercurynews.com/digital-first-media/ci_24222884/why-shutdown-hasn t -hit-your-401-k-yet
2013-10-02 03:33:18 PM  
1 votes:

NFA: mrshowrules: nekom: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

Hyperbole much?

But seriously, if he has any balls, he won't blink.  He needs to get a little bit more out ahead of this and explain to the American people why this is the GOP's fault, as tempting as it is to ignore them until they coma around you know the GOP is doing everything in their power to spin this into a Democrat shutdown.

The GOP is flailing right now.  The best thing Obama can do is wait.  American people are all coming to the realization that the GOP farked this up

According to recent polls, 50% of the country thinks the shutdown is the fault of Democrats.


Asking your co-workers is technically a "poll" but I wouldn't trust it.
2013-10-02 03:33:10 PM  
1 votes:

naturalbornposer: This stalemate in the government stems from BOTH major parties feeling like the other won't give an inch, because they won't either.


Why won't Obama enter into negotiations in which he can only give concessions?! The nerve!
2013-10-02 03:30:40 PM  
1 votes:
I have concluded that Fark is a liberal echo chamber.


/NTTAWWT
2013-10-02 03:28:07 PM  
1 votes:

there their theyre: sinanju: Many, many years ago, during a short non-billable period working for a software contracting firm, I was tasked with calling customers who had purchased a SW library but had not purchased a runtime license.  I was told I could go as low as $15k when negotiating the price for an unlimited license.

So, when I called, I offered an unlimited license for $15k.  If asked if there was any wiggle room on the price, my response was, "If you want to negotiate, the price is $30k".

If the GOP wants to negotiate, Obama should start with a comprehensive firearms ban in exchange for defunding Obamacare.  Not assault weapons -- firearms.  All of them.

When the other side starts to claim it's impossible, tell them he'll give up his impossible demand in exchange for them giving up theirs.  There... we've negotiated.

Why are some people so obsessed with a gun ban. Not only is it unconstitutional it is electoral poison. Higher income taxes for the rich would be a better starting point than gun grabbing.


OK, how about a 90% tax bracket for top earners? That's not unconstitutional. Let's start the negotiating there.
2013-10-02 03:27:39 PM  
1 votes:

namatad: OH YES ... we are missing the best part

Obama: Final Item.  This whole meeting was recorded, including this statement. See the 4 cameras?
The first false statement released about this meeting we release the whole unedited video.

Bwahahahaahahahah
Imagine the upset!!!


They won't care. This is an ideological jihad that doesn't care if they are wrong or right. I do like the idea of tainting Boehner so when he goes back to the GOP, he is seen as poison, fracturing the group even more. The goal is to have moderates bail on the party and see the beginning of a new political party while the old one sinks under the weight of rigid ideology.
2013-10-02 03:23:10 PM  
1 votes:

Cpl.D: Obama should counteroffer.  You're right.  He should negotiate.  He should allow the unclean CR to pass for something in return.

National gun registry?  Fair is fair, right?


I'm thinking more like reducing Medicare eligibility age to 0, in exchange for not just delaying, but entirely eliminating the mandate. I mean, there's no way the Teabaggers could be upset about a chance to cripple Obamacare like that!
2013-10-02 03:20:55 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: I never said they were to be a rubber stamp... they can only propose amendments, they cannot create NEW legislation, NEW legislation has to originate in the House.


Uh, then explain why the Senate was able to pass a budget that didn't originate in the House?
2013-10-02 03:20:52 PM  
1 votes:
Does this mean we can just send all those border patrol agents home? Man, the border is going to be quiet again ...
2013-10-02 03:19:05 PM  
1 votes:
In times like these, I like to remember the immortal words of Congressman Steve Largent. The last time the Republicans shut the government down, he said this to little Newtie Gingrich, Speaker of the House.

"So I recounted that story and told the Speaker, 'Mr. Speaker, in all honesty, I've been in smaller rooms with bigger people than are in the room right now...'"
2013-10-02 03:18:38 PM  
1 votes:

sinanju: Many, many years ago, during a short non-billable period working for a software contracting firm, I was tasked with calling customers who had purchased a SW library but had not purchased a runtime license.  I was told I could go as low as $15k when negotiating the price for an unlimited license.

So, when I called, I offered an unlimited license for $15k.  If asked if there was any wiggle room on the price, my response was, "If you want to negotiate, the price is $30k".

If the GOP wants to negotiate, Obama should start with a comprehensive firearms ban in exchange for defunding Obamacare.  Not assault weapons -- firearms.  All of them.

When the other side starts to claim it's impossible, tell them he'll give up his impossible demand in exchange for them giving up theirs.  There... we've negotiated.


And when they refuse, start adding things:
100 billion for food stamps. still no
tax all income at the same rate, no more special rates for special types of income, inheritance, cap gains, deferred compensation, blah blah blah blah. still no?
ok my final offer, everyone is eligible for medicare, starting today. everyone.

BUT BUT BUT that's not how this is supposed to work?!!!!
2013-10-02 03:15:13 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.

That doesn't mean that the Senate is just a rubber stamp for the House.

Republicans and Tea Partiers seem to think otherwise for whatever reason.

Agreed, but all the Senate has the right to do is propose amendments to bills that the House already passed.  One could argue that the Bill that Harry Reid got passed in the Senate the other day is unconstitutional because it is not the Senates job to write new legislation.

You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding. No one can actually write this seriously.

It is noted that you think the Constitution is inane.

Where did I say that? You don't actually believe that the Senate was written into the Constitution as a rubber-stamp for the House, do you?

You broke his brain. Smashed his CPU. Slagged his OS. He's done for.


I think my work here is done today.
2013-10-02 03:15:03 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: As for scrambling to save face, the article says that Obama is the one who summoned the congressional leaders to the table.  That means he's got to put something on the table.


I'm thinking a nice floral arrangement. That way, the room will look and smell nice when he tells the Republicans to pound sand.

/Maybe a box of doughnuts if he's feeling charitable.
2013-10-02 03:13:24 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.

That doesn't mean that the Senate is just a rubber stamp for the House.

Republicans and Tea Partiers seem to think otherwise for whatever reason.

Agreed, but all the Senate has the right to do is propose amendments to bills that the House already passed.  One could argue that the Bill that Harry Reid got passed in the Senate the other day is unconstitutional because it is not the Senates job to write new legislation.

You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding. No one can actually write this seriously.

It is noted that you think the Constitution is inane.

Where did I say that? You don't actually believe that the Senate was written into the Constitution as a rubber-stamp for the House, do you?


You broke his brain. Smashed his CPU. Slagged his OS. He's done for.
2013-10-02 03:12:36 PM  
1 votes:

sprawl15: cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.

That doesn't mean that the Senate is just a rubber stamp for the House.

Republicans and Tea Partiers seem to think otherwise for whatever reason.

Agreed, but all the Senate has the right to do is propose amendments to bills that the House already passed.  One could argue that the Bill that Harry Reid got passed in the Senate the other day is unconstitutional because it is not the Senates job to write new legislation.

You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding. No one can actually write this seriously.

well libulardo i looked at the constitution again and i dont see harry reid's name in it anywhere


OH DEAR I'VE BEEN SO WRONG ALL THESE YEARS
2013-10-02 03:11:31 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.

That doesn't mean that the Senate is just a rubber stamp for the House.

Republicans and Tea Partiers seem to think otherwise for whatever reason.

Agreed, but all the Senate has the right to do is propose amendments to bills that the House already passed.  One could argue that the Bill that Harry Reid got passed in the Senate the other day is unconstitutional because it is not the Senates job to write new legislation.

You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding. No one can actually write this seriously.

It is noted that you think the Constitution is inane.


Where did I say that? You don't actually believe that the Senate was written into the Constitution as a rubber-stamp for the House, do you?
2013-10-02 03:11:07 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: Heliovdrake: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards, people just don't know their civics very well.

That is some good concern trolling sir.


So WHY should the democrats compromise on a LAW passed by congress, upheld by the Highest Court in the land, endorsed by the American people in NOT ONE but in TWO national elections where the law in question was a central issue each time, now that the GOP is holding the nation hostage with a gambit that doesn't even affect the law in question with that is now hurting The American people?

Because that LAW was so poorly written that it requires funding from Congress every year to continue.. and it is the HOUSES RIGHT to deny funding to whatever it sees fit.

Are you really that dense?.. its a Law.. not a Right.


Obama should counteroffer.  You're right.  He should negotiate.  He should allow the unclean CR to pass for something in return.

National gun registry?  Fair is fair, right?
2013-10-02 03:11:05 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: Because that LAW was so poorly written that it requires funding from Congress every year to continue

Wow, you really are that dense. The law is funded through mandatory spending. It doesn't require any new legislation from Congress to continue. It's continuing right now.


Oh now you gone done it...Lyon told him unfiltered reality and factual information! Back up a bit cause his brain is done gonna pop!
2013-10-02 03:10:46 PM  
1 votes:

Heliovdrake: You know that the ACA is in effect right now and not at all hindered by the shutdown right?


Of course he knows that because it's been pointed out to him repeatedly.  He's just posting because he gets a thrill from seeing his name repeatedly highlighted in people's replies.  Any attention is good attention.
2013-10-02 03:09:12 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: Heliovdrake: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards, people just don't know their civics very well.

That is some good concern trolling sir.


So WHY should the democrats compromise on a LAW passed by congress, upheld by the Highest Court in the land, endorsed by the American people in NOT ONE but in TWO national elections where the law in question was a central issue each time, now that the GOP is holding the nation hostage with a gambit that doesn't even affect the law in question with that is now hurting The American people?

Because that LAW was so poorly written that it requires funding from Congress every year to continue.. and it is the HOUSES RIGHT to deny funding to whatever it sees fit.

Are you really that dense?.. its a Law.. not a Right.


You know that the ACA is in effect right now and not at all hindered by the shutdown right?
2013-10-02 03:08:14 PM  
1 votes:

naturalbornposer: The thing to remember is this "minority" you describe represents a large portion of the nation, not ten fringe extremists. This us and them attitude is going to split this nation in half, if not quarters (yay fractions!). Both sides are to blame for demonizing each other. Even in a 70-30 win, 30% of our nation feels they're getting shafted. Not 30 people, 30 percent. In a nation of over three hundred million that is 90,000,000 people feeling like someone else is dictating their lives against their will. Let that set in. You don't like it when its done to you.


i disagree.

I believe their numbers (the "minority"? let's call the TEA Patriots shall we?) are inflated by their media & their own perverted beliefs.

there is us and them as i would never consider supporting the type of tactics they use to govern no would i give in to their social beliefs or irresponsible uneducated political stance.

there are such things as majority rule & minority rights but these people aren't even a minority, they are a fringe, a lunatic fringe actually, they are Republicans who were embarrassed by the Lil'Bush Administration.

/never forget
2013-10-02 03:07:54 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.

That doesn't mean that the Senate is just a rubber stamp for the House.

Republicans and Tea Partiers seem to think otherwise for whatever reason.

Agreed, but all the Senate has the right to do is propose amendments to bills that the House already passed.  One could argue that the Bill that Harry Reid got passed in the Senate the other day is unconstitutional because it is not the Senates job to write new legislation.


You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding. No one can actually write this seriously.
Bf+
2013-10-02 03:07:35 PM  
1 votes:
Let's see... How do I put this in the Tea Party's own words...  I know!
ironwhirlygig.files.wordpress.com
2013-10-02 03:06:40 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards, people just don't know their civics very well.


It's no where near as simple as you think.
2013-10-02 03:05:36 PM  
1 votes:

Mercutio74: Why is Boehner invited?  They should have invited a contingent of Teamas party.  They're the ones wielding the power in the house, not Boehner.


Divide and conquer. Every time Boehner gets flayed for something the teabaggers did is one more shot he takes while muttering about them under his breath.
2013-10-02 03:05:07 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: Imagine democrats in congress shutting down the government rather than give up their personal perks and subsidies.  Because that's what this is about.

fc07.deviantart.net

1/10

2013-10-02 03:04:28 PM  
1 votes:

naturalbornposer: Overthrow by the people. Different than eradication by authoritarian regime, as the original post suggested.


Sadly, history has shown that today's "Overthrow by the people" is tomorrow's "Eradication by Authoritarian Regime"

b.vimeocdn.com
2013-10-02 03:02:53 PM  
1 votes:
First line of order: Boehner puts the "clean" CR Bill on the floor.  It passes easily with BIPARTISAN support, just as it passed with BIPARTISAN support in the Senate.  (Sorry lazy media and career C- student journalists, this is not an issue of the two parties unable to find commong ground ....they've already found common ground)

Second line of order:  Harry Reid goes through the sequestor item by item and gets an up or down vote ont it.  Every Senator goes on record voting for or against cancer or Alzheimer research.
2013-10-02 03:01:00 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.



yeah, you'd think they'd be willing to fund what they've already spent but these are odd times where the power of the purse should be used as a hostage for alternative negotiations huh?
2013-10-02 03:00:15 PM  
1 votes:

InmanRoshi: naturalbornposer: Slaves2Darkness: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

If he did I would start the revolution. Understand I'm a liberal Democrat, but if the President starts arresting people for shiat like this it's time to execute people like you.

Agreed. Different beliefs are different. We're supposed to work together, not stonewall each other like the present government is doing. If we tried to erradicate everyone that disagrees with what we think is "right", everyone dies.

You are not correctly diagnosing what is going on here.

There already is "comprimise", and bipartisan support to pass a clean CR bill.   If Boehner let it hit the Congressional Floor, which has already cleared with bipatisan support in the Senate, it would easily pass with votes from both sides of the aisle.

The issue is that a small faction of neo-confederate, anti-government insurrectionists and anarchists who believe they have been sent to Washington by their constituents to sabotage government from the inside.   They're holding our   governance hostage by the threat of the gun.  The Republican Party leadership is too weak and dickless to get them to fall in line, and the Democrats can't set a precedent of rewarding hostage taking tactics.


The thing to remember is this "minority" you describe represents a large portion of the nation, not ten fringe extremists. This us and them attitude is going to split this nation in half, if not quarters (yay fractions!). Both sides are to blame for demonizing each other. Even in a 70-30 win, 30% of our nation feels they're getting shafted. Not 30 people, 30 percent. In a nation of over three hundred million that is 90,000,000 people feeling like someone else is dictating their lives against their will. Let that set in. You don't like it when its done to you.
2013-10-02 02:59:23 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.


That doesn't mean that the Senate is just a rubber stamp for the House.

Republicans and Tea Partiers seem to think otherwise for whatever reason.
2013-10-02 02:58:52 PM  
1 votes:

clambam: Things will start to happen when people like the Koch Brothers start to lose money over this. Until then we're screwed.


That's why it's likely we'll see this end sometime between the 10th and 17th.  The Kochs are probably trying to assess whether the Dems are serious this time or not.  Let's face it, the Kochs (and the other .01 %ers) have way more to loose in a default than the Dems.

However, there is a non-zero chance that not even the Kochs have direct control over the Frankenstein monster that is the Tea Party.
2013-10-02 02:58:24 PM  
1 votes:
2013-10-02 02:55:53 PM  
1 votes:

sinanju: If the GOP wants to negotiate, Obama should start with a comprehensive firearms ban in exchange for defunding Obamacare.  Not assault weapons -- firearms.  All of them.


No, don't tie in this gun grabbing crap. I'm a two time Obama voter, but do not agree with the gun-grabby stuff. It's too "American" for many Obama voters. That's an integral right of being a US Citizen: we can get guns if we want them.

I'll vote R (And do not underestimate how hard it would be for me to even consider voting R again ever) if we get back on this gun control stupidity. The "War on Guns" is just as much an unwinnable "war" as the "War on Drugs". Both are here in the country in large amounts, and other than going full totalitarian surveilance, there ain't no way to get rid of either.

I think the majority of people who voted for Obama think the same. Just the super-leftists want to get rid of guns, and they are as stupid as tea-partiers in being unable to see the reality of an issue. Don't derail the progress we're making for something retarded as gun-grabbing.
2013-10-02 02:55:49 PM  
1 votes:

Cyclometh: Hah, look at this guy.


He'll never let go.
2013-10-02 02:55:25 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards, people just don't know their civics very well.


As the House is up for elections sooner than the White House or many Senators, I'd think they wouldn't last long in the stand off.
2013-10-02 02:55:04 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards


And that is based on...?
2013-10-02 02:54:54 PM  
1 votes:

dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards, people just don't know their civics very well.


You are one of them.
2013-10-02 02:54:26 PM  
1 votes:

quickdraw: Nadie_AZ: quickdraw: nekom: I'd wager that if that's all it took, they'd have a deal. The GOP is right about one thing: Good or bad, this IS their FINAL chance to stop the ACA. I don't think it's going to happen, but if they don't stop it now, they're never going to.

No. Their final chance to stop ACA like this was before it was put into law. There are processes in place for repealing laws - this isnt it. This is one in a long series of maneuvers to dismantle the US government and place restrictions on reproductive rights.

Ignoring this is like sitting with a guy at a bar and he says  "This drink is drugged. If you drink this I will take you out in a back alley and beat you" and then you drink it and find yourself being beaten in a back alley.

They have been clear for several decades now what their goal is. Perhaps we should take them at their word.

No, their chance was in the courts. The Supremes decided it was constitutional and therefor now law. That is when they lost the fight.

Well sure but by that time it was out of their hands. Anyways what Im getting at is that its just the excuse du jour and that focusing on ACA at this point is ignoring the real issue which is that these guys are soldiers in a very public dominionist power grab.

I hope I am wrong but I think we are facing the very real possibility that their goal is to drag this out to the point where our systems are irreparably damaged. Thereby disabling all those pesky regulatory agencies at one go. If thats the case I think we can expect this shut down to last as long as they can drag it out.


I don't think it is anyone's position to destroy the system that affords them a life of luxury. I hate them all (red or blue), but I don't believe they'd sabotage themselves.

With regard to the original post. I agree its the last shot to change the ACA. YES, you can repeal laws, but the majority of them stay in effect. I don't *hate* the ACA, but with how complicated modern legislation is, you're damn right this stuff gets rushed and ear marked with too much special interest.
2013-10-02 02:54:06 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.


i LOVE the postpone for a year thing. as if a year from now the GOP will stay silent as obamacare is implemented.

/and yes i know you're trolling
2013-10-02 02:53:44 PM  
1 votes:

Stile4aly: thornhill: SkinnyHead: El_Perro: SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.

Please explain why members of Congress and their staffs should be the only people in the country who are prohibited by law from receiving employer contributions for their health insurance premiums?

The Democrat Congress forced ordinary people to get their health insurance from these exchanges.It's only fair that members of congress should have to eat the same slop that they are forcing ordinary people to eat.  If they are getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to pay for it, then they are not really experiencing the same suffering that they are inflicting on others, are they?

No, that's not right.

You have to get health insurance if your employer does not provide it. Your employer does not have to provide they employ fewer than 50 people, or you are part time.

What's they're trying to do to congressional staffers would be like if your employer provided health care, but one day said instead of that cost being part of your totally employment benefits package (401k, health insurance, salary, etc.), they were going to cut your salary by $5k, and use that money to pay for health insurance.

Actually, it's worse than that.  It would be as if your employer said "we're cancelling your group insurance policy, you need to go buy insurance yourself.  Oh, and the money we were previously contributing to your health insurance?  We're just going to keep that."


Right. And under the ACA law, if your employer has more than 50 employees or your part-time, they cannot cancel the policy and throw you on the exchange.
2013-10-02 02:53:09 PM  
1 votes:

flondrix: The president and the heads of both parties in both houses of the legislature in one place at the same time?  Will Biden be there too?


You'd best slap an "only joking" tag on the end of that or you might get a visit from a government agency NOT affected by the shutdown.
2013-10-02 02:51:46 PM  
1 votes:

Mercutio74: Why is Boehner invited?  They should have invited a contingent of Teamas party.  They're the ones wielding the power in the house, not Boehner.


If you know a dog isn't housebroken, and you've got a nice rug, you don't invite the dog in to shiat on your rug.
Bf+
2013-10-02 02:49:46 PM  
1 votes:
Mr. President, we feel that...

www.staffingrobot.com

But, Mr. President, please, listen to re...

images.sodahead.com

Please Mr. Pr...

funnycatwallpapers.com
2013-10-02 02:49:39 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.


IMO the individual mandate is the best farking thing about ACA. Why does the GOP want to do away with it? Those fines for not getting insured, excuse me, "taxes", should be higher.
2013-10-02 02:48:48 PM  
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: quickdraw: nekom: I'd wager that if that's all it took, they'd have a deal. The GOP is right about one thing: Good or bad, this IS their FINAL chance to stop the ACA. I don't think it's going to happen, but if they don't stop it now, they're never going to.

No. Their final chance to stop ACA like this was before it was put into law. There are processes in place for repealing laws - this isnt it. This is one in a long series of maneuvers to dismantle the US government and place restrictions on reproductive rights.

Ignoring this is like sitting with a guy at a bar and he says  "This drink is drugged. If you drink this I will take you out in a back alley and beat you" and then you drink it and find yourself being beaten in a back alley.

They have been clear for several decades now what their goal is. Perhaps we should take them at their word.

No, their chance was in the courts. The Supremes decided it was constitutional and therefor now law. That is when they lost the fight.


Well sure but by that time it was out of their hands. Anyways what Im getting at is that its just the excuse du jour and that focusing on ACA at this point is ignoring the real issue which is that these guys are soldiers in a very public dominionist power grab.

I hope I am wrong but I think we are facing the very real possibility that their goal is to drag this out to the point where our systems are irreparably damaged. Thereby disabling all those pesky regulatory agencies at one go. If thats the case I think we can expect this shut down to last as long as they can drag it out.
2013-10-02 02:46:15 PM  
1 votes:

somedude210: Reid blinked...

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/326137-reid-off er s-to-talk-tax-reform-if-gop-funds-government


He'll appoint folks to talk about something tomorrow if they fix shiat today.  I'm okay with that.
2013-10-02 02:45:37 PM  
1 votes:

Nadie_AZ: Clutch2013: bdub77: In my dreams:

Obama: "Here's my offer: Go f*ck yourself.Do we have a deal?"
Boehner: "No, Mr. President. I'm not authorized to--"
Obama (to Secret Service agent): "Jerry, shoot this guy."
Boehner: "What?"
*BOOM*
Obama: "Speaker Cantor, now...do we have a deal?"
Cantor: "Wha-wha-wha-wha-wha?"
Obama: "DO I STUTTER?"

What movie is this?

I like the exchange from Firefly better. He simply kicks the guy and the guy gets sucked into the engine.


I miss Firefly...
2013-10-02 02:45:08 PM  
1 votes:

sprawl15: Bane of Broone: mrshowrules: Carn: In the Jon Stewart clip they added in the clip from Willy Wonka "You get nothing!  You lose!  Good day, sir!"

This is how I suspect some of Stewart's writers are visitors to Fark.  I'm pretty sure this joke was posted in a thread yesterday.

I'm pretty sure many people have seen that movie and made the same joke.

i dont think so

i mean it is possible but very unlikely


Sweet. Stewart's writers are following my feeds.
2013-10-02 02:44:24 PM  
1 votes:

Clutch2013: bdub77: In my dreams:

Obama: "Here's my offer: Go f*ck yourself.Do we have a deal?"
Boehner: "No, Mr. President. I'm not authorized to--"
Obama (to Secret Service agent): "Jerry, shoot this guy."
Boehner: "What?"
*BOOM*
Obama: "Speaker Cantor, now...do we have a deal?"
Cantor: "Wha-wha-wha-wha-wha?"
Obama: "DO I STUTTER?"

What movie is this?


I like the exchange from Firefly better. He simply kicks the guy and the guy gets sucked into the engine.
2013-10-02 02:43:47 PM  
1 votes:
Many, many years ago, during a short non-billable period working for a software contracting firm, I was tasked with calling customers who had purchased a SW library but had not purchased a runtime license.  I was told I could go as low as $15k when negotiating the price for an unlimited license.

So, when I called, I offered an unlimited license for $15k.  If asked if there was any wiggle room on the price, my response was, "If you want to negotiate, the price is $30k".

If the GOP wants to negotiate, Obama should start with a comprehensive firearms ban in exchange for defunding Obamacare.  Not assault weapons -- firearms.  All of them.

When the other side starts to claim it's impossible, tell them he'll give up his impossible demand in exchange for them giving up theirs.  There... we've negotiated.
2013-10-02 02:43:46 PM  
1 votes:

Clutch2013: bdub77: In my dreams:

Obama: "Here's my offer: Go f*ck yourself.Do we have a deal?"
Boehner: "No, Mr. President. I'm not authorized to--"
Obama (to Secret Service agent): "Jerry, shoot this guy."
Boehner: "What?"
*BOOM*
Obama: "Speaker Cantor, now...do we have a deal?"
Cantor: "Wha-wha-wha-wha-wha?"
Obama: "DO I STUTTER?"

What movie is this?


The in production name is A F*cking Awesome Movie
2013-10-02 02:43:31 PM  
1 votes:
Given that some of these morons obviously (by voting record and their own rhetoric) are working against many aspects of the constitution, and obviously have the shutdown of the government - a patently destructive act and existential threat to the contry - as a primary goal, how is this not levying War? I know Treason is a (rightly) a high bar to reach, but sme of these traitor to the constitution seem to be trying very hard to reach it.

Or, failing that standard, can we simply define the blatant and deliberate act of forcing a government shutdown to be evidence they have abdicated their office? They clearly don't want to participate anymore, so we don't even bother with impeachment - simply elect/promote their successor as required by local law/custom.
2013-10-02 02:43:25 PM  
1 votes:

thornhill: SkinnyHead: El_Perro: SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.

Please explain why members of Congress and their staffs should be the only people in the country who are prohibited by law from receiving employer contributions for their health insurance premiums?

The Democrat Congress forced ordinary people to get their health insurance from these exchanges.It's only fair that members of congress should have to eat the same slop that they are forcing ordinary people to eat.  If they are getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to pay for it, then they are not really experiencing the same suffering that they are inflicting on others, are they?

No, that's not right.

You have to get health insurance if your employer does not provide it. Your employer does not have to provide they employ fewer than 50 people, or you are part time.

What's they're trying to do to congressional staffers would be like if your employer provided health care, but one day said instead of that cost being part of your totally employment benefits package (401k, health insurance, salary, etc.), they were going to cut your salary by $5k, and use that money to pay for health insurance.


Actually, it's worse than that.  It would be as if your employer said "we're cancelling your group insurance policy, you need to go buy insurance yourself.  Oh, and the money we were previously contributing to your health insurance?  We're just going to keep that."
2013-10-02 02:42:13 PM  
1 votes:

bdub77: In my dreams:

Obama: "Here's my offer: Go f*ck yourself.Do we have a deal?"
Boehner: "No, Mr. President. I'm not authorized to--"
Obama (to Secret Service agent): "Jerry, shoot this guy."
Boehner: "What?"
*BOOM*
Obama: "Speaker Cantor, now...do we have a deal?"
Cantor: "Wha-wha-wha-wha-wha?"
Obama: "DO I STUTTER?"


What movie is this?
2013-10-02 02:41:29 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: thornhill: SkinnyHead: El_Perro: SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.

Please explain why members of Congress and their staffs should be the only people in the country who are prohibited by law from receiving employer contributions for their health insurance premiums?

The Democrat Congress forced ordinary people to get their health insurance from these exchanges.It's only fair that members of congress should have to eat the same slop that they are forcing ordinary people to eat.  If they are getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to pay for it, then they are not really experiencing the same suffering that they are inflicting on others, are they?

No, that's not right.

You have to get health insurance if your employer does not provide it. Your employer does not have to provide they employ fewer than 50 people, or you are part time.

What's they're trying to do to congressional staffers would be like if your employer provided health care, but one day said instead of that cost being part of your totally employment benefits package (401k, health insurance, salary, etc.), they were going to cut your salary by $5k, and use that money to pay for health insurance.

Imagine democrats in congress shutting down the government rather than give up their personal perks and subsidies.  Because that's what this is about.  That, and to prevent a one year delay in the individual mandate penalties that they want to inflict on ordinary folks.  So if people are going without pay because of Harry Reid's shutdown, they should know that they are suffering for a good cause -- to make sure that Harry Reid and other democrats in congress can continue to get their perks.


Um...that's not even remotely close to reality.....
2013-10-02 02:37:42 PM  
1 votes:
Earlier today, as an offer to end the shutdown, Reid sent Boehner a letter offering to set up a budget conference to address the GOP's fiscal concerns. I seriously doubt that just a few hours later the Dems would fold on almost everything the GOP has asked for, when the GOP is taking a public beating, and the list of defecting GOP House members has grown from 12 yesterday to 17 today.
2013-10-02 02:37:17 PM  
1 votes:
Boner and the Turtle are coming to the White House to ask for a way to give in that doesn't make them look stupid. I doubt the President will be able to help them with that.
2013-10-02 02:33:37 PM  
1 votes:

BMulligan: birdmanesq: That's like the White Sox asking the Twins to trade Joe Mauer in return for four whole fried chickens and a coke.

Throw in some dry white toast and we have a deal.


What, no glass of water??
2013-10-02 02:27:54 PM  
1 votes:
I don't see why everyone needs to be there other than to have witnesses. Obama needs to look Boehner straight in the eye and say "End this idiocy. Now. It's on your hands, you know this."
2013-10-02 02:27:11 PM  
1 votes:

mrshowrules: I like the idea of what you are saying.   If the President even gives a token thing, I think it will still end this a future tactic of the GOP.  The GOP is on the ground getting their ribs kicked in right now screaming Uncle.  If Obama helps the up, he doesn't lose any face and they won't pick this type of fight again.  However, I also like your approach.


Exactly. Remember, this is a freaking 6 week CR! If the Dems give up anything, are we just supposed to keep repeating this process every 6 weeks, ad infinitum?
2013-10-02 02:26:57 PM  
1 votes:
Step 1: Throw all Republicans inside a shipping container
Step 2: Lock all doors
Step 3: Throw in 1 bottle of warm water, 1 tire iron, and 1 large, pissed off raccoon.
Step 4: Unlock all doors when they agree to the CR, debt ceiling increase, and leave ACA alone.
2013-10-02 02:21:00 PM  
1 votes:
I hope Obama serves Green Eggs and Ham for dinner.
2013-10-02 02:20:54 PM  
1 votes:
How about jackshiat and go fark yourself?
2013-10-02 02:20:37 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: El_Perro: SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.

Please explain why members of Congress and their staffs should be the only people in the country who are prohibited by law from receiving employer contributions for their health insurance premiums?

The Democrat Congress forced ordinary people to get their health insurance from these exchanges.It's only fair that members of congress should have to eat the same slop that they are forcing ordinary people to eat.  If they are getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to pay for it, then they are not really experiencing the same suffering that they are inflicting on others, are they?


No, that's not right.

You have to get health insurance if your employer does not provide it. Your employer does not have to provide they employ fewer than 50 people, or you are part time.

What's they're trying to do to congressional staffers would be like if your employer provided health care, but one day said instead of that cost being part of your totally employment benefits package (401k, health insurance, salary, etc.), they were going to cut your salary by $5k, and use that money to pay for health insurance.
2013-10-02 02:20:07 PM  
1 votes:

Bontesla: DamnYankees: Bontesla: Reid has indicated that he's open to talking about tax reform.

Before the clean CR is passed? Cite?

thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/326137-reid-offers-to-t a lk-tax-reform-if-gop-funds-government#ixzz2gaWnfVsk


FTA..."The entire government is shut down right now because Washington Democrats refuse to even talk about fairness for all Americans under ObamaCare," Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said. "Offering to negotiate only after Democrats get everything they want is not much of an offer."

cdn0.sbnation.com
2013-10-02 02:14:39 PM  
1 votes:

MarshHawk: DamnYankees: Robert Costa @robertcostaNRO
Instead of getting tense about shutdown, many Rs from defund camp are ecstatic; after Romney defeat, Boehner probs, think Rs showing spine


What does this mean?  I don't speak twitter or NRO.


"We didn't lose, and if we did it is because we weren't conservative enough."
2013-10-02 02:14:37 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.


img824.imageshack.us
2013-10-02 02:13:20 PM  
1 votes:

mrshowrules: DamnYankees: Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.

He will concede a fake thing.  Like a commission to make recommendations on improving Obamacare.  Something that has no substance but gives the GOP a small out.


Or he could let the GOP twist in the wind, concede nothing while continuing to show himself as being reasonable .
2013-10-02 02:12:24 PM  
1 votes:

Bontesla: DamnYankees: Bontesla: Reid has indicated that he's open to talking about tax reform.

Before the clean CR is passed? Cite?

thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/326137-reid-offers-to-t a lk-tax-reform-if-gop-funds-government#ixzz2gaWnfVsk


That's not Reid giving up anything. He's saying that if the House passes a clean CR, then he'll appoint conferees - that's something the Democrats have been begging the GOP to do for 6 months! Reid isn't budging at all.
2013-10-02 02:11:07 PM  
1 votes:
SkinnyHead:
The Democrat Congress forced ordinary people to get their health insurance from these exchanges.  It's only fair that members of congress should have to eat the same slop that they are forcing ordinary people to eat.  If they are getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to pay for it, then they are not really experiencing the same suffering that they are inflicting on others, are they?

I'd wager that if that's all it took, they'd have a deal.  The GOP is right about one thing:  Good or bad, this IS their FINAL chance to stop the ACA.  I don't think it's going to happen, but if they don't stop it now, they're never going to.
2013-10-02 02:10:19 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: At this point I honestly don't know what the tea bagger end game looks like.


I think it looks like the government defaulting on debt payments and the teabaggers finally getting rich off the gold Glenn Beck sold them.
2013-10-02 02:09:52 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead:  I think he will decide to delay the individual mandate and end the subsidies on his own, in exchange for a clean CR.


I think you're delusional.
2013-10-02 02:08:33 PM  
1 votes:
My guess, no. McConnell's people aren't thinking anything will come of it. Boehner's going to put another amended CR in play today. It's going to be Obama bringing out his pimp hand, but the GOP won't budge.

god bless America...
2013-10-02 02:00:29 PM  
1 votes:

nekom: Weaver95: But the tea baggers are stupid and on a suicide mission to take down the government. Not sure how this will play out.

Well, realistically what do you think the endgame for them is?  Government shutdown for the rest of the Obama administration?  How is that going to play in the mid-terms?  Make no mistake, this is ALL about the mid-terms, though I have a sneaking suspicion they haven't thought their cunning plan all the way through.


At this point I honestly don't know what the tea bagger end game looks like. They're basing their plans off data that only exists in their closed echo chamber, they seem immune to logic and regard common sense as a creepy mutation. They hate Obama, and let that hatred color what we laughingly call their strategy.

They're a dangerous mob with little more than vague plans, lots of power and no concern for the consequences of their actions.
2013-10-02 02:00:22 PM  
1 votes:

I_C_Weener: They should have had this meeting before the shutdown. Clinton Would have done that


Obama was kind of busy with the UN, Iran , and Syria.

Its Congress' job to pass bills.
2013-10-02 01:56:38 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: But the tea baggers are stupid and on a suicide mission to take down the government. Not sure how this will play out.


Well, realistically what do you think the endgame for them is?  Government shutdown for the rest of the Obama administration?  How is that going to play in the mid-terms?  Make no mistake, this is ALL about the mid-terms, though I have a sneaking suspicion they haven't thought their cunning plan all the way through.
2013-10-02 01:53:53 PM  
1 votes:

James!: Weaver95: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

On I don't think public opinion could get any lower. The GOP should just turn everything back on and pretend the shutdown never happened.

Most of them will be taken behind the woodshed after this is over and a handful won't be coming back.  They made their last desperate attempt to stop the ACA and now it's consequences time.


I'd like to see that happen...I really would. But the tea baggers are stupid and on a suicide mission to take down the government. Not sure how this will play out.
2013-10-02 01:48:54 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

On I don't think public opinion could get any lower. The GOP should just turn everything back on and pretend the shutdown never happened.


Most of them will be taken behind the woodshed after this is over and a handful won't be coming back.  They made their last desperate attempt to stop the ACA and now it's consequences time.
2013-10-02 01:48:01 PM  
1 votes:

Carn: Weaver95: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

On I don't think public opinion could get any lower. The GOP should just turn everything back on and pretend the shutdown never happened.

Well, there's very slight room for un-improvement.

According to the survey, just 10% of Americans say they approve of the job Congress is doing, an all-time low in a CNN poll. And 87% say they disapprove of the job federal lawmakers are doing, higher than it's ever been in CNN polling.


Are they upset with the GOP, or do they think it is 'the other side's fault'?
2013-10-02 01:47:19 PM  
1 votes:

SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.


Please explain why members of Congress and their staffs should be the only people in the country who are prohibited by law from receiving employer contributions for their health insurance premiums?
2013-10-02 01:44:51 PM  
1 votes:
Robert Costa @robertcostaNRO
Instead of getting tense about shutdown, many Rs from defund camp are ecstatic; after Romney defeat, Boehner probs, think Rs showing spine

We're so screwed.
2013-10-02 01:43:30 PM  
1 votes:

James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.


On I don't think public opinion could get any lower. The GOP should just turn everything back on and pretend the shutdown never happened.
2013-10-02 01:43:20 PM  
1 votes:

vernonFL: You should get to the nearest poison center. I think you ate too much peyote.


I hope he's got insurance.
2013-10-02 01:33:51 PM  
1 votes:
In the Jon Stewart clip they added in the clip from Willy Wonka "You get nothing!  You lose!  Good day, sir!"
2013-10-02 01:33:05 PM  
1 votes:

Ambivalence: NewportBarGuy: James!: Let's not pretend that Boehner has the authority to make a deal.

He does, he just loses his job as Speaker.

It's already gone. The only question now is how he will be remembered.


For some reason, I think he'll keep it. Lately, incompetence seems to be rewarded.
2013-10-02 01:17:42 PM  
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.


The mouthbreathers have been calling everything tyranny. Health care? Tyranny. Highways? Tyranny. State of the Union speech? Tyranny. Moved Hannity's show off prime time? Tyranny.

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-10-02 01:05:45 PM  
1 votes:
If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.
2013-10-02 12:51:56 PM  
1 votes:

James!: Let's not pretend that Boehner has the authority to make a deal.


He does, he just loses his job as Speaker.
2013-10-02 12:39:35 PM  
1 votes:

NewportBarGuy: "John, you are not more important than the 300,000,000 Americans in this country. Bring a clean bill to the floor, or I will make sure all of them blame you for this. In return, I offer you this lovely bottle of Wild Turkey. Enjoy."


Nice touch, making him accept bourbon when we all know he's a scotch man. Well played, Obama.
2013-10-02 12:26:02 PM  
1 votes:

WhoIsWillo: DamnYankees: This is actually slightly different. I think negotiating over the CR is actually perfectly valid. It's negotiating over the debt cieling which needs to be killed right now. That can't possibly be permitted to continue.

Actually, the West Wing episode 'Shutdown' was about a disagreement about a CR. The White House had agreed to a 1% reduction, the Speaker insisted on a 3%. Bartlet, seeing his strategy was a part of a larger attempt to dismantle the federal government and eliminate all of his initiatives, shut down the government and would work to continue it until he reached an equitable agreement.


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's why I think the situation today is different, because its going to involve the debt ceiling.
2013-10-02 12:24:23 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: This is actually slightly different. I think negotiating over the CR is actually perfectly valid. It's negotiating over the debt cieling which needs to be killed right now. That can't possibly be permitted to continue.


Actually, the West Wing episode 'Shutdown' was about a disagreement about a CR. The White House had agreed to a 1% reduction, the Speaker insisted on a 3%. Bartlet, seeing his strategy was a part of a larger attempt to dismantle the federal government and eliminate all of his initiatives, shut down the government and would work to continue it until he reached an equitable agreement.
2013-10-02 12:23:47 PM  
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.


"nothing and fark you"
 
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