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(Washington Post)   Breaking: Boehner, McConnell, Pelosi and Reid will be meeting at the White House with President Obama at 5:30 ET today. Will this standoff end?   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 625
    More: Unlikely, President Obama, White House, Boehner, McConnell v. FEC, no solutions, government shutdown, House Republicans, House Minority Leader  
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1136 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Oct 2013 at 2:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-02 03:18:01 PM  
"Asked what the point of a meeting between President Obama and Republicans over the government shutdown was if President Obama had no intention of budging on the funding of the government, White House press secretary Jay Carney had no answer. "


the press appears to be on top of things.
 
2013-10-02 03:18:33 PM  
Leave the mother shut down for the next 10 years, nobody will notice.
 
2013-10-02 03:18:38 PM  

sinanju: Many, many years ago, during a short non-billable period working for a software contracting firm, I was tasked with calling customers who had purchased a SW library but had not purchased a runtime license.  I was told I could go as low as $15k when negotiating the price for an unlimited license.

So, when I called, I offered an unlimited license for $15k.  If asked if there was any wiggle room on the price, my response was, "If you want to negotiate, the price is $30k".

If the GOP wants to negotiate, Obama should start with a comprehensive firearms ban in exchange for defunding Obamacare.  Not assault weapons -- firearms.  All of them.

When the other side starts to claim it's impossible, tell them he'll give up his impossible demand in exchange for them giving up theirs.  There... we've negotiated.


And when they refuse, start adding things:
100 billion for food stamps. still no
tax all income at the same rate, no more special rates for special types of income, inheritance, cap gains, deferred compensation, blah blah blah blah. still no?
ok my final offer, everyone is eligible for medicare, starting today. everyone.

BUT BUT BUT that's not how this is supposed to work?!!!!
 
2013-10-02 03:18:42 PM  

dwrash: it should be delayed one year (at least the penalty part) just like it was done for congress and and the unions, to avoid the appearance of cronyism.


why would a union be mandated to buy a health insurance plan

how do they do their physical

dwrash: Also, since the Supreme Court struck down the black mail portion of the bill that was trying to strong arm the states into expanding medicare and medicaid in their states


No, they only limited the penalty for not following it. The original language of the bill tied a pile of existing benefits to complying with new laws, the Courts said you can only really have new benefits tied to new laws. The new laws are still on the books.
 
2013-10-02 03:19:03 PM  

sprawl15: well libulardo i looked at the constitution again and i dont see harry reid's name in it anywhere


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-10-02 03:19:05 PM  
In times like these, I like to remember the immortal words of Congressman Steve Largent. The last time the Republicans shut the government down, he said this to little Newtie Gingrich, Speaker of the House.

"So I recounted that story and told the Speaker, 'Mr. Speaker, in all honesty, I've been in smaller rooms with bigger people than are in the room right now...'"
 
2013-10-02 03:19:15 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: cameroncrazy1984: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

The house has exclusive power of the purse... period.

That doesn't mean that the Senate is just a rubber stamp for the House.

Republicans and Tea Partiers seem to think otherwise for whatever reason.

Agreed, but all the Senate has the right to do is propose amendments to bills that the House already passed.  One could argue that the Bill that Harry Reid got passed in the Senate the other day is unconstitutional because it is not the Senates job to write new legislation.

You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding. No one can actually write this seriously.

It is noted that you think the Constitution is inane.

Where did I say that? You don't actually believe that the Senate was written into the Constitution as a rubber-stamp for the House, do you?


I never said they were to be a rubber stamp... they can only propose amendments, they cannot create NEW legislation, NEW legislation has to originate in the House.
 
2013-10-02 03:19:36 PM  

sinanju: Many, many years ago, during a short non-billable period working for a software contracting firm, I was tasked with calling customers who had purchased a SW library but had not purchased a runtime license.  I was told I could go as low as $15k when negotiating the price for an unlimited license.

So, when I called, I offered an unlimited license for $15k.  If asked if there was any wiggle room on the price, my response was, "If you want to negotiate, the price is $30k".

If the GOP wants to negotiate, Obama should start with a comprehensive firearms ban in exchange for defunding Obamacare.  Not assault weapons -- firearms.  All of them.

When the other side starts to claim it's impossible, tell them he'll give up his impossible demand in exchange for them giving up theirs.  There... we've negotiated.


Why are some people so obsessed with a gun ban. Not only is it unconstitutional it is electoral poison. Higher income taxes for the rich would be a better starting point than gun grabbing.
 
2013-10-02 03:20:06 PM  

Heliovdrake: Also I almost forgot.

SkinnyHead still refuses to even come to the table about the 2 years of totalfark that he owes me.


Wont even bother to acknowledge it, let alone open negotiations.

Why? Is he too busy doping candy with knockout chemicals in his attempt to sell toddlers to 3rd world dictators?

Maybe, Im just asking questions..

You owe me two years of Total Fark SkinnyHead.  Don't forget, I want them bought individually in 1 month segments until you reach the full two years worth.

You are being very very unreasonable SkinnyHead, and the people see that.


I hope you get SkinnyHead is the Fark Halloween gift exchange
 
2013-10-02 03:20:12 PM  

Isitoveryet: naturalbornposer: So what you are proposing is the oppression of a minority group because you don't recognize their ideas as valid? How progressive and intellectual of you.


oppress? why would that be necessary? i would simply ignore them.
I have no problem with their existence.


And we return to my point about a minority voice feeling no voice in the increasingly large government that decides what they can and can't do...
 
2013-10-02 03:20:19 PM  

SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.


After Iran-Contra, I learned that Conservatives will negotiate with Terrorists. After this shutdown, I learned the Conservatives are the terrorists. After this post, I learned that we are dealing with special needs terrorists.
 
2013-10-02 03:20:52 PM  
Does this mean we can just send all those border patrol agents home? Man, the border is going to be quiet again ...
 
2013-10-02 03:20:55 PM  

dwrash: I never said they were to be a rubber stamp... they can only propose amendments, they cannot create NEW legislation, NEW legislation has to originate in the House.


Uh, then explain why the Senate was able to pass a budget that didn't originate in the House?
 
2013-10-02 03:20:59 PM  

Apik0r0s: The root of EVERY problem the USA faces is in the media.


So, like, the McRib? That's the media, too? And what about crabgrass? Is that CNN or FOX?
 
2013-10-02 03:21:05 PM  
OH YES ... we are missing the best part

Obama: Final Item.  This whole meeting was recorded, including this statement. See the 4 cameras?
The first false statement released about this meeting we release the whole unedited video.

Bwahahahaahahahah
Imagine the upset!!!
 
2013-10-02 03:21:31 PM  

sprawl15: dwrash: it should be delayed one year (at least the penalty part) just like it was done for congress and and the unions, to avoid the appearance of cronyism.

why would a union be mandated to buy a health insurance plan


The union plans are all 'cadillac' plans and will incur a penalty when the new law goes in effect... which would then decrease the coverage the unions will be able to provide their members.
 
2013-10-02 03:21:53 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: dwrash:

derp

You're kidding, right. Please tell me you're kidding. No one can actually write this seriously.

Never underestimate the confident ignorance of a Paultard.
 
2013-10-02 03:23:10 PM  

Cpl.D: Obama should counteroffer.  You're right.  He should negotiate.  He should allow the unclean CR to pass for something in return.

National gun registry?  Fair is fair, right?


I'm thinking more like reducing Medicare eligibility age to 0, in exchange for not just delaying, but entirely eliminating the mandate. I mean, there's no way the Teabaggers could be upset about a chance to cripple Obamacare like that!
 
2013-10-02 03:23:44 PM  

dwrash: The union plans are all 'cadillac' plans and will incur a penalty when the new law goes in effect... which would then decrease the coverage the unions will be able to provide their members.


oh so you are just talking about something totally irrelevant but mentioning it in a list as if it was relevant to make a point?

i guess that is a valid debate tactic if not particularly rational
 
2013-10-02 03:24:12 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Mrtraveler01: dwrash: They both need to compromise... and to be honest, the House holds all the cards

And that is based on...?

Based on the fact that if some kind of compromise isn't achieved, then the crazy Tea Party politicians are screwed.


Let Obama propose some half-ass compromise on Keystone, but stipulate that it won't take effect for 3 years.
 
2013-10-02 03:24:53 PM  

naturalbornposer: Isitoveryet: naturalbornposer: So what you are proposing is the oppression of a minority group because you don't recognize their ideas as valid? How progressive and intellectual of you.


oppress? why would that be necessary? i would simply ignore them.
I have no problem with their existence.

And we return to my point about a minority voice feeling no voice in the increasingly large government that decides what they can and can't do...



there's always Somalia. (joke)

you are speaking as if what is happening today isn't happening or at the very least leaving out the major players.

increasingly large gov't? ugh.

WHAT can't you do?
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-10-02 03:27:04 PM  

NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.


No, intentionally shutting down the US government and pushing it into financial default is a coup perpetrated by the GOP.  It is the very definition of treason and should be treated as such.  This is not a simple political game, according to the US banking industry the financial impact could be devastating.

Having US elected officials publicly endorsing and celebrating damaging the US government is nothing less than criminal.  If a foreign nation caused this kind of harm, the bombing would begin immediately.
 
2013-10-02 03:27:06 PM  

Isitoveryet: naturalbornposer: Isitoveryet: naturalbornposer: So what you are proposing is the oppression of a minority group because you don't recognize their ideas as valid? How progressive and intellectual of you.


oppress? why would that be necessary? i would simply ignore them.
I have no problem with their existence.

And we return to my point about a minority voice feeling no voice in the increasingly large government that decides what they can and can't do...


there's always Somalia. (joke)

you are speaking as if what is happening today isn't happening or at the very least leaving out the major players.

increasingly large gov't? ugh.

WHAT can't you do?


This isn't about me, that's also part of the point. It should be about ALL of us. People I agree with and don't agree with. This stalemate in the government stems from BOTH major parties feeling like the other won't give an inch, because they won't either. The littler groups are even more frustrated.
 
2013-10-02 03:27:39 PM  

namatad: OH YES ... we are missing the best part

Obama: Final Item.  This whole meeting was recorded, including this statement. See the 4 cameras?
The first false statement released about this meeting we release the whole unedited video.

Bwahahahaahahahah
Imagine the upset!!!


They won't care. This is an ideological jihad that doesn't care if they are wrong or right. I do like the idea of tainting Boehner so when he goes back to the GOP, he is seen as poison, fracturing the group even more. The goal is to have moderates bail on the party and see the beginning of a new political party while the old one sinks under the weight of rigid ideology.
 
2013-10-02 03:27:58 PM  
Obama better lay in a stock of fresh flies or whatever it is that turtles eat for McConnell.
 
2013-10-02 03:28:07 PM  

there their theyre: sinanju: Many, many years ago, during a short non-billable period working for a software contracting firm, I was tasked with calling customers who had purchased a SW library but had not purchased a runtime license.  I was told I could go as low as $15k when negotiating the price for an unlimited license.

So, when I called, I offered an unlimited license for $15k.  If asked if there was any wiggle room on the price, my response was, "If you want to negotiate, the price is $30k".

If the GOP wants to negotiate, Obama should start with a comprehensive firearms ban in exchange for defunding Obamacare.  Not assault weapons -- firearms.  All of them.

When the other side starts to claim it's impossible, tell them he'll give up his impossible demand in exchange for them giving up theirs.  There... we've negotiated.

Why are some people so obsessed with a gun ban. Not only is it unconstitutional it is electoral poison. Higher income taxes for the rich would be a better starting point than gun grabbing.


OK, how about a 90% tax bracket for top earners? That's not unconstitutional. Let's start the negotiating there.
 
2013-10-02 03:29:00 PM  
i.imgur.com

It's coming.  You know it is.
 
2013-10-02 03:29:14 PM  
I really like the argument that "well why did they wait until the last minute to debate this?"  Well, seeing as the House saw fit to debate over 40 "defund Obamacare" bills instead of having productive (or ANY) talks about reforming entitlements, etc....
 
2013-10-02 03:29:20 PM  

Heliovdrake: So WHY should the democrats compromise on a LAW passed by congress, upheld by the Highest Court in the land, endorsed by the American people in NOT ONE but in TWO national elections where the law in question was a central issue each time, now that the GOP is holding the nation hostage with a gambit that doesn't even affect the law in question with that is now hurting The American people?


Because Jesus and Guns and Constitution(The way I interpret it, not those illuminati in the supreme court.)
 
2013-10-02 03:29:33 PM  
Oops, my bad There. Next time I'll read the post in its entirety before responding indignantly to it.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-10-02 03:29:45 PM  

mrshowrules: nekom: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

Hyperbole much?

But seriously, if he has any balls, he won't blink.  He needs to get a little bit more out ahead of this and explain to the American people why this is the GOP's fault, as tempting as it is to ignore them until they coma around you know the GOP is doing everything in their power to spin this into a Democrat shutdown.

The GOP is flailing right now.  The best thing Obama can do is wait.  American people are all coming to the realization that the GOP farked this up


According to recent polls, 50% of the country thinks the shutdown is the fault of Democrats.
 
2013-10-02 03:30:40 PM  
I have concluded that Fark is a liberal echo chamber.


/NTTAWWT
 
2013-10-02 03:30:42 PM  
After the meeting Obama has a presser and tells the american people "We have come to an agreement to get the govt back and working.  The agreement is that I will sign the current CR offering from the house with one change.  That change will be for the extention of the experation date.  This will move out to 4 months.  This should give everyone enough time to actually get an actual budget to my desk.  Part of this agreement will be for the debt ceiling bill with no string will be passed shortly thereafter and should cover until 2016.  Thank you and govt workers, be ready to be back to work on Thursday."
 
Bf+
2013-10-02 03:31:20 PM  

naturalbornposer: This stalemate in the government stems from BOTH major parties feeling like the other won't give an inch, because they won't either.


So vote Republican.
 
2013-10-02 03:31:47 PM  

Cyclometh: The meeting had better go like this:

"You will pass a clean CR. There is to be no negotiating. There is only one option for getting out of this, and I want to make it clear that you have no others. You can grandstand, go to the media, cry and whine, but neither the Senate nor myself will consider anything but a clean funding bill with no riders. You will do it now, or you will do it later, but you will do it. Now get the fark out of my office and go do your jobs."


If that were the plan, they wouldn't need to have a meeting.
 
2013-10-02 03:33:10 PM  

naturalbornposer: This stalemate in the government stems from BOTH major parties feeling like the other won't give an inch, because they won't either.


Why won't Obama enter into negotiations in which he can only give concessions?! The nerve!
 
2013-10-02 03:33:18 PM  

NFA: mrshowrules: nekom: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

Hyperbole much?

But seriously, if he has any balls, he won't blink.  He needs to get a little bit more out ahead of this and explain to the American people why this is the GOP's fault, as tempting as it is to ignore them until they coma around you know the GOP is doing everything in their power to spin this into a Democrat shutdown.

The GOP is flailing right now.  The best thing Obama can do is wait.  American people are all coming to the realization that the GOP farked this up

According to recent polls, 50% of the country thinks the shutdown is the fault of Democrats.


Asking your co-workers is technically a "poll" but I wouldn't trust it.
 
2013-10-02 03:33:21 PM  
The below article suggests that we'll likely see a deal when the stock market reacts.

www.mercurynews.com/digital-first-media/ci_24222884/why-shutdown-hasn t -hit-your-401-k-yet
 
2013-10-02 03:33:33 PM  

Evil High Priest: If that were the plan, they wouldn't need to have a meeting.


How are you supposed to tell someone to get the fark out of your office and go do their jobs if they're not in your office?
 
2013-10-02 03:33:41 PM  

naturalbornposer: This stalemate in the government stems from BOTH major parties feeling like the other won't give an inch, because they won't either.


Wat

This stalemate in the government stems from BOTH major parties feeling like the other won't give an inch

Oh, I see your trouble.  This is all about "feelings" and not "facts".  "Feeling" it in your heart of hearts does not make it a "fact".
 
2013-10-02 03:34:10 PM  

clambam: OK, how about a 90% tax bracket for top earners? That's not unconstitutional. Let's start the negotiating there.


It wouldn't even be unprecedented.  The top bracket as recently as 1963 was 91% for over $200,000.  And Republicans pine for the good ole' days of the '50s?
 
2013-10-02 03:34:51 PM  

Heliovdrake: You know that the ACA is in effect right now and not at all hindered by the shutdown right?


Which is interesting since every other project the fed runs is supposed to have a chain across its doors, with workers being dumped out into the streets and all.

The shutdown is a show being put on to try and shock the public. We can tell its falling on deaf ears since the people haven't charged at congress with torches and pitchforks.   Whatever result the Democrats expect won't be coming for another year at best.
The Republicans,who stood the most to lose in a shutdown,have no reason to go begging Obama's forgiveness at this point. They'll get blamed the same regardless, so they've got plenty of time.

Obama can say he won't negotiate, but that just drags this out till we run headlong into the debt ceiling debate. At which point we get to talk about expensive new programs alongside our newest admission that we can't afford to pay for any of it.

/The delay was the political escape from this situation.
/The Right didn't make that clear enough for the left to bite.
/Maybe they should ask Putin to negotiate their behalf.
 
2013-10-02 03:35:41 PM  

FeFiFoFark: I have concluded that Fark is a liberal echo chamber.

/NTTAWWT


The majority of Farkers are rational people, which causes one to believe that this is a liberal echo chamber. It's a common mistake.
 
2013-10-02 03:35:44 PM  

NFA: mrshowrules: nekom: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

Hyperbole much?

But seriously, if he has any balls, he won't blink.  He needs to get a little bit more out ahead of this and explain to the American people why this is the GOP's fault, as tempting as it is to ignore them until they coma around you know the GOP is doing everything in their power to spin this into a Democrat shutdown.

The GOP is flailing right now.  The best thing Obama can do is wait.  American people are all coming to the realization that the GOP farked this up

According to recent polls, 50% of the country thinks the shutdown is the fault of Democrats.


Wow, thank god the ACA started today, you will be able to get  insurance with your pre-existing condition.

Pulling a poll out of your ass must have wrecked you something fierce.
 
2013-10-02 03:35:47 PM  

dwrash: they can only propose amendments, they cannot create NEW legislation, NEW legislation has to originate in the House.


New legislation that raises revenue has to originate in the House, not all legislation.
 
2013-10-02 03:35:47 PM  

Evil High Priest: Cyclometh: The meeting had better go like this:

"You will pass a clean CR. There is to be no negotiating. There is only one option for getting out of this, and I want to make it clear that you have no others. You can grandstand, go to the media, cry and whine, but neither the Senate nor myself will consider anything but a clean funding bill with no riders. You will do it now, or you will do it later, but you will do it. Now get the fark out of my office and go do your jobs."

If that were the plan, they wouldn't need to have a meeting.




Sure they would. It is to make it utterly clear where things stand and shred any notion that the GOP gets anything from this. Tell them face to face, man to man, exactly what the situation is and there is literally only one path forward.
 
2013-10-02 03:36:29 PM  

Lando Lincoln: FeFiFoFark: I have concluded that Fark is a liberal echo chamber.

/NTTAWWT

The majority of Farkers are rational people, which causes one to believe that this is a liberal echo chamber. It's a common mistake.


Reality is our liberal echo chamber.
 
2013-10-02 03:36:32 PM  
Bontesia:
The below article suggests that we'll likely see a deal when the stock market reacts.
www.mercurynews.com/digital-first-media/ci_24222884/why-shutdown-has n t -hit-your-401-k-yet


seems like further proof who and what really run the show
 
2013-10-02 03:36:33 PM  

cranked: naturalbornposer: This stalemate in the government stems from BOTH major parties feeling like the other won't give an inch, because they won't either.

Wat

This stalemate in the government stems from BOTH major parties feeling like the other won't give an inch

Oh, I see your trouble.  This is all about "feelings" and not "facts".  "Feeling" it in your heart of hearts does not make it a "fact".


Feeling has a lot more weight when it comes to accurately predicting human behavior.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-10-02 03:36:46 PM  

dr_blasto: NewportBarGuy: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

I don't know how America would react to a coup, because that is what that would be.

The mouthbreathers have been calling everything tyranny. Health care? Tyranny. Highways? Tyranny. State of the Union speech? Tyranny. Moved Hannity's show off prime time? Tyranny.

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?


Yet when we have an elected official who publicly states her party planned and succeeded in shutting down the US government, this ISN'T treason?  Then we had Senator Lee who said he wanted to "bring the house down" to force a rewrite of the US constitution, this ISN'T treason or at least sedition?
 
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