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(Washington Post)   Breaking: Boehner, McConnell, Pelosi and Reid will be meeting at the White House with President Obama at 5:30 ET today. Will this standoff end?   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 625
    More: Unlikely, President Obama, White House, Boehner, McConnell v. FEC, no solutions, government shutdown, House Republicans, House Minority Leader  
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1135 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Oct 2013 at 2:03 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-02 02:14:18 PM

Weaver95: I think even the tea party is starting to realize that they might have gone too far on this one. Problem is...they can't back down or their own people will eat them alive.


I think you completely misunderstand what the tea party is, at least regarding this situation. There are several attempts to retcon the TP origin story, but the reality is that they were simply a Republican astroturf campaign. The problem today stems from the tools and tactics the Republicans used when they created this group--mainly using the basest arguments directed to create fear, panic even, and festering hate for those they wished to paint as enemies of the state while simultaneously fostering the nascent distrust of governmental policies and leadership that were direct results of the failed GW Bush administration - false reasoning for war, squandered financial security, bogus patriotism and the like.

By using these tools, giving significant attention to the complaints through national media campaigns on Fox News (who were chased and repeated by their competitors), they roped in a bunch of really upset, ill-informed and, frankly, scared-as-fark people they didn't seem to really expect to jump on board. Since it was branded "grassroots" these people didn't have any qualms about taking over. Soon after that, the purity tests began. Technocrats, bureaucrats, reasonably qualified politicians were run down by the new crazy train. It became easy for the non-qualified grifters to aim that hate-gun at their opponents and rake in the cash from the new gravy train. Some got elected, knowing full well that they had to maintain this hyper-partisan, hyper-conservative veneer to keep the next player from gunning after them. The end game is cash and power.

The "Tea Party" as a group knows no consequences for their actions. They only fear the opposition - "socailism" or "Obama" - quoted as they're known as misrepresentations of what they really are.

Even if these jackwagons get booted from office, they won't give a shiat. They got their money, they got their power.
 
2013-10-02 02:14:33 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-02 02:14:37 PM

SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.


img824.imageshack.us
 
2013-10-02 02:14:39 PM

MarshHawk: DamnYankees: Robert Costa @robertcostaNRO
Instead of getting tense about shutdown, many Rs from defund camp are ecstatic; after Romney defeat, Boehner probs, think Rs showing spine


What does this mean?  I don't speak twitter or NRO.


"We didn't lose, and if we did it is because we weren't conservative enough."
 
2013-10-02 02:16:44 PM

Weaver95: I think even the tea party is starting to realize that they might have gone too far on this one. Problem is...they can't back down or their own people will eat them alive.


Which is inevitable. The longer they delay it, the worse it's going to be for our country and for their party. Their first mistake was giving crazy people any political power at all.
 
2013-10-02 02:16:52 PM
Retail politics.

/not distracted by this
//oh look .. a puppy!
 
2013-10-02 02:17:25 PM
dr_blasto:

So, if there were actual tyranny, would they even recognize it?

*looks at Republican efforts to deprive women the mastery of their bodies*

Nope.
 
2013-10-02 02:17:30 PM
I hope fists fly. Fartbongo will use his stuff on Boehner and he will limp away crying. Shutdown ended!
 
2013-10-02 02:18:31 PM

DamnYankees: Bontesla: DamnYankees: Bontesla: Reid has indicated that he's open to talking about tax reform.

Before the clean CR is passed? Cite?

thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/326137-reid-offers-to-t a lk-tax-reform-if-gop-funds-government#ixzz2gaWnfVsk

That's not Reid giving up anything. He's saying that if the House passes a clean CR, then he'll appoint conferees - that's something the Democrats have been begging the GOP to do for 6 months! Reid isn't budging at all.


That's the starting point - sure.
 
2013-10-02 02:18:42 PM

incendi: monoski: End of shut-down or just a Pelosi gang-bang?
//how is that lunch sitting in your belly now?

Barack wouldn't be the first....
[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x914]
/yes, there is zero evidence for my tawdry innuendo...


Innuendo. [snert]
 
2013-10-02 02:18:50 PM

James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.


FIFY
 
2013-10-02 02:19:10 PM

nekom: NFA: If Obama has any balls at all, he'll have Boehner arrested for treason and then go on TV and announce the rest of the GOP is next.

Hyperbole much?

But seriously, if he has any balls, he won't blink.  He needs to get a little bit more out ahead of this and explain to the American people why this is the GOP's fault, as tempting as it is to ignore them until they coma around you know the GOP is doing everything in their power to spin this into a Democrat shutdown.


The GOP is flailing right now.  The best thing Obama can do is wait.  American people are all coming to the realization that the GOP farked this up.  When this is common knowledge, then Obama should come out and lay the smack down on the GOP.   He shouldn't rush this speech.  He's smarter to target impacted groups one-by-one (veterans, park workers, contractors working for the Government) in a series of small speeches.  Hold off on the big speech until the public is begging for it.  The GOP is doing a very good job cannibalizing themselves as it stands.
 
2013-10-02 02:19:47 PM
The meeting had better go like this:

"You will pass a clean CR. There is to be no negotiating. There is only one option for getting out of this, and I want to make it clear that you have no others. You can grandstand, go to the media, cry and whine, but neither the Senate nor myself will consider anything but a clean funding bill with no riders. You will do it now, or you will do it later, but you will do it. Now get the fark out of my office and go do your jobs."
 
2013-10-02 02:20:07 PM

Bontesla: DamnYankees: Bontesla: Reid has indicated that he's open to talking about tax reform.

Before the clean CR is passed? Cite?

thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/326137-reid-offers-to-t a lk-tax-reform-if-gop-funds-government#ixzz2gaWnfVsk


FTA..."The entire government is shut down right now because Washington Democrats refuse to even talk about fairness for all Americans under ObamaCare," Boehner spokesman Michael Steel said. "Offering to negotiate only after Democrats get everything they want is not much of an offer."

cdn0.sbnation.com
 
2013-10-02 02:20:08 PM

Mad Scientist: SkinnyHead:  I think he will decide to delay the individual mandate and end the subsidies on his own, in exchange for a clean CR.

I think you're delusional.


Study it out
 
2013-10-02 02:20:37 PM

SkinnyHead: El_Perro: SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.

Please explain why members of Congress and their staffs should be the only people in the country who are prohibited by law from receiving employer contributions for their health insurance premiums?

The Democrat Congress forced ordinary people to get their health insurance from these exchanges.It's only fair that members of congress should have to eat the same slop that they are forcing ordinary people to eat.  If they are getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to pay for it, then they are not really experiencing the same suffering that they are inflicting on others, are they?


No, that's not right.

You have to get health insurance if your employer does not provide it. Your employer does not have to provide they employ fewer than 50 people, or you are part time.

What's they're trying to do to congressional staffers would be like if your employer provided health care, but one day said instead of that cost being part of your totally employment benefits package (401k, health insurance, salary, etc.), they were going to cut your salary by $5k, and use that money to pay for health insurance.
 
2013-10-02 02:20:54 PM
How about jackshiat and go fark yourself?
 
2013-10-02 02:21:00 PM
I hope Obama serves Green Eggs and Ham for dinner.
 
2013-10-02 02:21:14 PM

Carn: In the Jon Stewart clip they added in the clip from Willy Wonka "You get nothing!  You lose!  Good day, sir!"


This is how I suspect some of Stewart's writers are visitors to Fark.  I'm pretty sure this joke was posted in a thread yesterday.
 
2013-10-02 02:21:34 PM

birdmanesq: That's like the White Sox asking the Twins to trade Joe Mauer in return for four whole fried chickens and a coke.


Throw in some dry white toast and we have a deal.
 
2013-10-02 02:22:07 PM

Lando Lincoln: Weaver95: I think even the tea party is starting to realize that they might have gone too far on this one. Problem is...they can't back down or their own people will eat them alive.

Which is inevitable. The longer they delay it, the worse it's going to be for our country and for their party. Their first mistake was giving crazy people any political power at all.


I don't think they intended the nutters to get control and I think they underestimated the seedy underbelly of their party. Part of this is direct fallout for the battle of control of the Republican party and the "soul" of the conservative movement.

The older and more responsible members of the Republican party are using this as an opportunity to kill the cancer they inflcted on themselves when the grifters and nutters of the TP movement got elected under their banner. The TP nutters and grifters are either making money or are shoring up their power base by forcing this into a purity test.
 
2013-10-02 02:22:17 PM

Cyclometh: The meeting had better go like this:

"You will pass a clean CR. There is to be no negotiating. There is only one option for getting out of this, and I want to make it clear that you have no others. You can grandstand, go to the media, cry and whine, but neither the Senate nor myself will consider anything but a clean funding bill with no riders. You will do it now, or you will do it later, but you will do it. Now get the fark out of my office and go do your jobs."


You forget to tell them to go get their shine box but I like it.
 
2013-10-02 02:22:25 PM

Cyclometh: The meeting had better go like this:

"You will pass a clean CR and debt ceiling. There is to be no negotiating. There is only one option for getting out of this, and I want to make it clear that you have no others. You can grandstand, go to the media, cry and whine, but neither the Senate nor myself will consider anything but a clean funding bill and clean debt ceiling

  with no riders. You will do it now, or you will do it later, but you will do it. Now get the fark out of my office and go do your jobs."

FTFY, otherwise spot on.
 
2013-10-02 02:22:28 PM

incendi: Weaver95: At this point I honestly don't know what the tea bagger end game looks like.

I think it looks like the government defaulting on debt payments and the teabaggers finally getting rich off the gold Glenn Beck sold them.


I'm sure that Glenn Beck and the BUYAMAZINGCHEAPGOLD.COM charlatans have already figured out a way to fleece these rubes if gold suddenly spikes. They're the only ones who will be getting rich. Meanwhile, the teabaggers will continue their brave fight to keep gubmint outta their medicare.
 
2013-10-02 02:22:47 PM

nekom: I'd wager that if that's all it took, they'd have a deal. The GOP is right about one thing: Good or bad, this IS their FINAL chance to stop the ACA. I don't think it's going to happen, but if they don't stop it now, they're never going to.


No. Their final chance to stop ACA like this was before it was put into law. There are processes in place for repealing laws - this isnt it. This is one in a long series of maneuvers to dismantle the US government and place restrictions on reproductive rights.

Ignoring this is like sitting with a guy at a bar and he says  "This drink is drugged. If you drink this I will take you out in a back alley and beat you" and then you drink it and find yourself being beaten in a back alley.

They have been clear for several decades now what their goal is. Perhaps we should take them at their word.
 
2013-10-02 02:23:05 PM
Why would you meet with Boehner instead of the people who are actually in charge? Maybe instead of showing up, Obama could send in a mail room intern. Boehner and the intern could come to an agreement about congressional parking spaces.
 
2013-10-02 02:23:05 PM
"Why won't you negotiate with us on this basic procedural matter over a law that was passed in both legislative houses, signed by the executive, upheld by the judicial, validated by the electorate and untouched by more than 40 repeal votes!? What the hell is wrong with you!?"

/ republicans are literally worse than useless
 
2013-10-02 02:24:57 PM
Breaking Boehner is a new series on AMC...

/didn't read the thread, joke was probably already taken.
 
2013-10-02 02:25:34 PM

DamnYankees: mrshowrules: DamnYankees: Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.

He will concede a fake thing.  Like a commission to make recommendations on improving Obamacare.  Something that has no substance but gives the GOP a small out.

He can't give even a fake thing. He needs to permanently extinguish the idea that you can hold the economy hostage as a negotiating tactic. If he gives anything, the idea stays alive.


I like the idea of what you are saying.   If the President even gives a token thing, I think it will still end this a future tactic of the GOP.  The GOP is on the ground getting their ribs kicked in right now screaming Uncle.  If Obama helps the up, he doesn't lose any face and they won't pick this type of fight again.  However, I also like your approach.
 
2013-10-02 02:25:36 PM

SkinnyHead: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

Seeing as how Obama agreed to postpone Obamacare penalties for big business for a year, its only fair that individual citizens -- the 99% -- should get the same consideration.  And it is also fair to require members of congress to live with Obamacare like everyone else, without getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to ease the pain.

As for scrambling to save face, the article says that Obama is the one who summoned the congressional leaders to the table.  That means he's got to put something on the table.  I think he will decide to delay the individual mandate and end the subsidies on his own, in exchange for a clean CR.


So, in other words, Obama already compromised on the mandate for small businesses.  Why are you whining about the President being unwilling to compromise?
 
2013-10-02 02:25:38 PM

Enuratique: SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.

[img824.imageshack.us image 316x269]


i44.tinypic.com
 
2013-10-02 02:25:38 PM
I have a small side bet that this meeting may include Nancy Pelosi if for no other reason than to illustrate to John Boehner that yes, there is life after the Majority Speakership

Followed by some gentle, but stern, offers to catch him when he falls after he puts the CR out for a vote

Hope she brings kleenex

sorry - i'm snarky today
 
2013-10-02 02:26:52 PM
Meeting better go like this:

i.perezhilton.com
 
2013-10-02 02:26:57 PM
Step 1: Throw all Republicans inside a shipping container
Step 2: Lock all doors
Step 3: Throw in 1 bottle of warm water, 1 tire iron, and 1 large, pissed off raccoon.
Step 4: Unlock all doors when they agree to the CR, debt ceiling increase, and leave ACA alone.
 
2013-10-02 02:27:11 PM

mrshowrules: I like the idea of what you are saying.   If the President even gives a token thing, I think it will still end this a future tactic of the GOP.  The GOP is on the ground getting their ribs kicked in right now screaming Uncle.  If Obama helps the up, he doesn't lose any face and they won't pick this type of fight again.  However, I also like your approach.


Exactly. Remember, this is a freaking 6 week CR! If the Dems give up anything, are we just supposed to keep repeating this process every 6 weeks, ad infinitum?
 
2013-10-02 02:27:23 PM

FlashHarry: [i42.tinypic.com image 640x360]


Came for this, leaving satisfied.

nekom: syrynxx: He shouldn't even show.  Just borrow that chair from Clint Eastwood.

Oh I LIKE that idea.  Just sit an empty chair in the meeting room.


Oh, fark.  That would be some epic trolling on his end.  E. Pic.
 
2013-10-02 02:27:28 PM
deepthoughtswithskinnyhead.jpg
 
2013-10-02 02:27:45 PM

El_Perro: SkinnyHead: I'm glad to see they are willing to talk.  Here's my prediction.  I think that Obama will agree to postpone the individual mandate for a year and eliminate Obamacare subsidies for congress, not because republicans demand it, but because it's the right thing to do.  That will allow Reid to accept the CR and end his shutdown.

Please explain why members of Congress and their staffs should be the only people in the country who are prohibited by law from receiving employer contributions for their health insurance premiums?


I agree with you about staffers, but I wouldn't mind seeing all federal elected officials having to fully pay for their own health insurance.
 
2013-10-02 02:27:54 PM
I don't see why everyone needs to be there other than to have witnesses. Obama needs to look Boehner straight in the eye and say "End this idiocy. Now. It's on your hands, you know this."
 
2013-10-02 02:28:10 PM

SkinnyHead: I think he will decide to delay the individual mandate and end the subsidies on his own, in exchange for a clean CR.


It's impossible to delay the mandate. The pricing in the exchanges depends on their being a mandate. If you delay that, then you have to shutdown the exchanges.
 
2013-10-02 02:28:15 PM
Ever get the feeling that the Senate and House Republicans are akin to the Russian frontliners in WWI? Reality is the opposition, and behind them is the Tea Party, cheering and shouting... and ready to shoot anyone who dares run away.
 
2013-10-02 02:28:25 PM
From the Moonie Times:

When President Obama meets with congressional leaders late Wednesday afternoon, he'll ask for nothing other than that Republicans allow the federal government to reopen.

"A negotiation in the Washington sense traditionally implies give-and-take, trade-offs, demands, if you give me this, I'll give you that. The president's approach in this that he's asking for nothing from Republicans," White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters. "He is attaching zero demands to the general proposition that Congress should simply open the government, keep it open. He is asking for nothing, making no demands. He is attaching no partisan strings to his request."


I like this a lot. Notice how Carney is saying that the president is demanding nothing, while strongly implying that likewise the president is offering nothing (as he shouldn't, IMHO). This may be the best played game of chess Hogwarts has seen these many years.
 
2013-10-02 02:28:26 PM

Weaver95: mrshowrules: DamnYankees: Obama better just say "my offer is nothing". If he gives a farking thing its a disaster.

He will concede a fake thing.  Like a commission to make recommendations on improving Obamacare.  Something that has no substance but gives the GOP a small out.

Or he could let the GOP twist in the wind, concede nothing while continuing to show himself as being reasonable .


Either way.  There is no outcome favourable to the GOP.  There are outcomes of varying degrees of pain for the US however.  America is like the parable of the child and the two mothers which King Solomon suggesting splitting in two.  Except with the GOP abducting the child every few years.
 
2013-10-02 02:28:50 PM

Weaver95: I think even the tea party is starting to realize that they might have gone too far on this one. Problem is...they can't back down or their own people will eat them alive.


If only they would, and put the resulting proceedings on PPV, we could balance the budget, fund the ACA and pay off a few billion in debt in a matter of hours!
 
2013-10-02 02:29:23 PM
This better not turn out to be a meeting to figure out some way Pelosi, Reed, and Obama can save Boehner's ass from himself and the cretins in his caucus.

I will be extremely unhappy if this turns out to be anything besides the three of them putting the farking screws to the guy.  Because if they save his ass, we'll all be farked again in 2 weeks with the debt ceiling, and again in a few months whenever the next (eventually agreed upon) CR is set to expire.
 
2013-10-02 02:29:52 PM

BMulligan: From the Moonie Times:

When President Obama meets with congressional leaders late Wednesday afternoon, he'll ask for nothing other than that Republicans allow the federal government to reopen.

"A negotiation in the Washington sense traditionally implies give-and-take, trade-offs, demands, if you give me this, I'll give you that. The president's approach in this that he's asking for nothing from Republicans," White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters. "He is attaching zero demands to the general proposition that Congress should simply open the government, keep it open. He is asking for nothing, making no demands. He is attaching no partisan strings to his request."

I like this a lot. Notice how Carney is saying that the president is demanding nothing, while strongly implying that likewise the president is offering nothing (as he shouldn't, IMHO). This may be the best played game of chess Hogwarts has seen these many years.


I wish they would do more to point out that the Democrats have already concede to funding the CR at the sequester levels. It's a massive compromise they are making,
 
2013-10-02 02:30:12 PM

quickdraw: nekom: I'd wager that if that's all it took, they'd have a deal. The GOP is right about one thing: Good or bad, this IS their FINAL chance to stop the ACA. I don't think it's going to happen, but if they don't stop it now, they're never going to.

No. Their final chance to stop ACA like this was before it was put into law. There are processes in place for repealing laws - this isnt it. This is one in a long series of maneuvers to dismantle the US government and place restrictions on reproductive rights.

Ignoring this is like sitting with a guy at a bar and he says  "This drink is drugged. If you drink this I will take you out in a back alley and beat you" and then you drink it and find yourself being beaten in a back alley.

They have been clear for several decades now what their goal is. Perhaps we should take them at their word.


No, their chance was in the courts. The Supremes decided it was constitutional and therefor now law. That is when they lost the fight.
 
2013-10-02 02:30:15 PM
You don't negotiate with terrorists.
 
2013-10-02 02:30:51 PM
Anyone remember the scene in Batman where the Joker breaks a pool cue and tells the three guys that he has only one new vacancy in his army?
 
2013-10-02 02:30:55 PM

SkinnyHead: James!: There is no reason to delay the mandate and there is no reason to screw over congressional staffers with the Vitter Amendment.  The republicans should be scrambling around to find a way to save face and get out of this mess.

Seeing as how Obama agreed to postpone Obamacare penalties for big business for a year, its only fair that individual citizens -- the 99% -- should get the same consideration.  And it is also fair to require members of congress to live with Obamacare like everyone else, without getting special subsidies from the taxpayers to ease the pain.

As for scrambling to save face, the article says that Obama is the one who summoned the congressional leaders to the table.  That means he's got to put something on the table.  I think he will decide to delay the individual mandate and end the subsidies on his own, in exchange for a clean CR.


I think you picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
 
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