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(Washington Post)   "Did you try turning it off and on again?" Why yes, we have. Here is a complete list of US Government shutdowns   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 72
    More: Followup, Tip O'Neill, shut downs, Abortion Shutdown, nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, health education, O'Neill, the Bus Uncle, moons  
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5622 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Oct 2013 at 6:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-02 09:20:07 AM  

Skleenar: ninotchka: So compromise only goes one way?

That's a little rich considering you are commenting to the person responding to the comment that said the "wise" compromise out of this situation was to give the GOP everything they wanted, and in return they promise, for realsies this time, to not try to destroy full faith and credit of the US government.


This.  What exactly is the GOP bringing to the table to compromise with?  ACA has already been lawfully passed, withstood dozens of repeal attempts, survived review by SCOTUS and in the most recent election, the candidate who vowed to repeal it lost decisively.  It's about as fully vetted as any law can be and the losers need to just get over it.

As to real compromise, how about this?  Delay implementation for 6 months in exchange for increasing income and capital gains taxes on the wealthy for the same time frame.  That way both sides are giving concessions.
 
2013-10-02 09:23:06 AM  

ninotchka: Crap! That was the worst grammar! I will never post again on three hours sleep! Have to take the baby to the doctor because he was wheezing all night. Seriously though, I am sick of the ignorant comments!


Maybe if you spend more time posting online, you can help people to be not-ignorant.
 
2013-10-02 09:25:40 AM  

Mandapants: ninotchka: Crap! That was the worst grammar! I will never post again on three hours sleep! Have to take the baby to the doctor because he was wheezing all night. Seriously though, I am sick of the ignorant comments!

Maybe if you spend more time posting online, you can help people to be not-ignorant.


yourenothelping.jpg
 
2013-10-02 09:25:58 AM  

ninotchka: Bazzlex001: hasty ambush: My suggestion for a compromise.

1. The tax on medical devices goes away (even many Democrats say this is a bad idea) in exchange Congress and their lackeys and assorted boot lickers get to keep their Obamacare exemptions subject to renewal each fiscal year


2. A six month delay in the individual mandate and in exchange Congress otherwise fully funds Obamacare

3. Debt Ceiling negotiations will not be tied to Obamacare in exchange Congress agrees to send a balance budget amendment and line item veto amendment to the states for ratification-or non-ratification (I would like to throw a term limits Amendment in there but I figure that would be pushing)

Other possible give and take items

Food Stamp funding
Obamacare birth control/abortion exemptions for religious reasons

/Just call me Solomon

There is no give and take. These would only be concessions. The tea party has nothing to offer not only due to the fact that they don't have a single constructive idea between them all, but also because they are the minority party pretending to be a majority. The citizens of this country voted resoundingly against what they had to offer, and it is only due to their asshole friend Gerry Mander back in 2010 that they hold a house majority.

So compromise only goes one way? We only have one party in the country and anyone else is a trouble maker? Seriously? Maybe I disagree with the president on this and am happy to have people in Congress to represent my views. My husband even works for the Federal government and we support the shut down. Yes, there are people different from you. This new bill is a mess and I hated the idea when Republicans came up with it in the first place. Why not just focus on providing medical care in extreme cases and for immunizations,etc and leave the rest to the public to decide what to do. Republicans aren't Libertarians and do believe in some government help. That is why they are compromise more than come up with new ideas. Libertarians on the other hand want to strip the government. The older I get the more Libertarian I become.

To be honest, I am sick of the partisan crap on both sides. Michelle Bachman is really getting on my nerves. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi need to retire!


It wouldn't be compromise, it would be extortion. Compromise would be Boehner bringing a clean CR to a vote, which has bipartisan support to pass the House.

This isn't about compromise, it is about a minority element within the GOP holding the rest of the country hostage unless they get what they want. And I don't believe over half of the population should be governed by the will of 20 percent of it. Especially when that 20 percent is as classically unfit to govern as people like Michelle Bachmann.
 
2013-10-02 09:26:29 AM  

hasty ambush: My suggestion for a compromise.

1. The tax on medical devices goes away (even many Democrats say this is a bad idea) in exchange Congress and their lackeys and assorted boot lickers get to keep their Obamacare exemptions subject to renewal each fiscal year


2. A six month delay in the individual mandate and in exchange Congress otherwise fully funds Obamacare

3. Debt Ceiling negotiations will not be tied to Obamacare in exchange Congress agrees to send a balance budget amendment and line item veto amendment to the states for ratification-or non-ratification (I would like to throw a term limits Amendment in there but I figure that would be pushing)

Other possible give and take items

Food Stamp funding
Obamacare birth control/abortion exemptions for religious reasons

/Just call me Solomon


Problem there sport is the ACA is fully funded, it is a mandate, i.e. non-discretionary spending. The whole reason this pissing match is happening is because the Republitards wand to re-write the ACA to be discretionary funding, so they can kill it in the budgetary process. Instead of proposing such a bill, which would fail, they are attempting an end run around the Constitution by shutting down the government until they get their way.

They have been unreasonable for 6 years now, it is just after 6 years the President and the Senate, not just the Democrats in the Senate, have finally "compromised" on everything they will "compromise" on. There is nothing left that they can or will give the Republicans in the House and so we are at a shutdown and impasse.

The House Republicans position is not that strong, they are being held up by 80 Tea Party Republicans and if John Boehner had any integrity he would bring a clean CR bill to the floor for a vote in the House, it would pass, the Senate would pass it, the President would sign it, and this would be all over. Sadly he knows if he does that he will lose his seat as Teatards will mount a challenge and win against him in the 2014 election.
 
2013-10-02 09:28:05 AM  

Persnickety: Skleenar: ninotchka: So compromise only goes one way?

That's a little rich considering you are commenting to the person responding to the comment that said the "wise" compromise out of this situation was to give the GOP everything they wanted, and in return they promise, for realsies this time, to not try to destroy full faith and credit of the US government.

This.  What exactly is the GOP bringing to the table to compromise with?  ACA has already been lawfully passed, withstood dozens of repeal attempts, survived review by SCOTUS and in the most recent election, the candidate who vowed to repeal it lost decisively.  It's about as fully vetted as any law can be and the losers need to just get over it.

As to real compromise, how about this?  Delay implementation for 6 months in exchange for increasing income and capital gains taxes on the wealthy for the same time frame.  That way both sides are giving concessions.


How about no. The Republican position is not that strong and no more "compromises" with these assholes. We have given them all we are going to and more then they ever could have expected.
 
2013-10-02 09:31:33 AM  
If the House Republicans wanted to negotiate, they could have appointed members to the budget conference committee SIX MONTHS AGO, instead of waiting until two hours before the deadline for shutdown. Just sayin'.

/Tired of this "pox on all their houses" jazz, too. My personal congressman isn't causing any trouble. He goes to committee meetings, does a buttload of constituent service, and doesn't stuff himself in front of the C-Span cameras. This whole thing is caused by Ted Cruz, Steve King, Michele Bachmann, Louie Gohmert, and the lesser clowns in their troupe, who are living in some parallel universe where a modest reform in the way people can buy private health insurance = Communism.
 
2013-10-02 09:32:01 AM  

Skleenar: Perspective.


Comedy is funny.  Cloture is calling a game in the 3rd quarter, so as to not belabor the contest since the game is running long and the network has other programs it needs to air.  It's a bad analogy.
 
2013-10-02 09:58:07 AM  

mbillips: IamKaiserSoze!!!: And not one elected official will be inconvenienced in the slightest.

I think that this 'shutdown' will be the one that causes people to realize how inconsequential many elective federal services are.

F8ck Mitch, John, Harry, Nancy and Barry anyway. They've all done nothing for the past five years (Nancy and Harry go back longer) but create the most partisan federal government in forever.

Yeah, you're half right. The problem is not that the federal government is partisan. The problem is that one partisan side thinks it's OK to wreck the economy in order to refight battles they lost at the ballot box. The 2008-09 Congress was one of the most productive in history in terms of amount and significance of legislation passed. The Republican Congresses of 2010 and 2012 have passed virtually NOTHING.


More specifically, Harry Reid has help up anything. The Senate has never been more partisan and unproductive. He has merely been a laptop for the executive branch.

I'm offended my mitch and Boehner too but to lay this off on one side means you aren't being objective.
 
2013-10-02 10:12:31 AM  

Persnickety: Skleenar: ninotchka: So compromise only goes one way?

That's a little rich considering you are commenting to the person responding to the comment that said the "wise" compromise out of this situation was to give the GOP everything they wanted, and in return they promise, for realsies this time, to not try to destroy full faith and credit of the US government.

This.  What exactly is the GOP bringing to the table to compromise with?  ACA has already been lawfully passed, withstood dozens of repeal attempts, survived review by SCOTUS and in the most recent election, the candidate who vowed to repeal it lost decisively.  It's about as fully vetted as any law can be and the losers need to just get over it.

As to real compromise, how about this?  Delay implementation for 6 months in exchange for increasing income and capital gains taxes on the wealthy for the same time frame.  That way both sides are giving concessions.


Now we've got a winner.
 
2013-10-02 10:25:01 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Why don't we all just chill the fark out and let our political leaders do what they're supposed to do.

Truth be told, I can see how some can enjoy all this handwringing and fingerpointing, but in the end it's just sport for us.


If they were doing what they are supposed to do, there wouldn't be any handwringing and finger pointing.
 
2013-10-02 10:28:55 AM  

dittybopper: hasty ambush: My suggestion for a compromise.

I've got one.

Have the House send a clean bill to the Senate, with a couple of non-PPACA related riders.  One would repeal the Hughes Amendment.  The other would remove federal law enforcement dollars provided to states who continue to have either of the following:
1. Magazine capacity restrictions less than 20 rounds, or
2. That will not issue CCW licenses on a "Shall Issue" basis.

Then we'd see just how important the Affordable Care Act is.


0/0
There's a gun troll in my government thread.
 
2013-10-02 11:04:41 AM  

Persnickety: Skleenar: ninotchka: So compromise only goes one way?

That's a little rich considering you are commenting to the person responding to the comment that said the "wise" compromise out of this situation was to give the GOP everything they wanted, and in return they promise, for realsies this time, to not try to destroy full faith and credit of the US government.

This.  What exactly is the GOP bringing to the table to compromise with?  ACA has already been lawfully passed, withstood dozens of repeal attempts, survived review by SCOTUS and in the most recent election, the candidate who vowed to repeal it lost decisively.  It's about as fully vetted as any law can be and the losers need to just get over it.

As to real compromise, how about this?  Delay implementation for 6 months in exchange for increasing income and capital gains taxes on the wealthy for the same time frame.  That way both sides are giving concessions.


Think of it this way.  Imagine I want you to do something, that you don't want to do...for instance, we are carpooling together and I say "we should use premium gas, it is better for my car" but you say "no, premium gas is expensive and pointless".  One method of negotion/compromise would go:

You: Use regular, or I shoot you in the head.
Me: No.
You: Use regular or I shoot you in the stomach.
Me: No.
You: Use regular or I shoot you in the hand.
Me: No.
You: Dammit, I am not getting in the car until we use regular, I have offered deal after deal, each increasingly better, and you are still not negotiating!
(We both stand around outside the car, getting nowhere.  Better hope we figure it out soon, rainclouds are forming)

Another method of compromise is:

You: Use regular.
Me: No.
You:  How about we use mid-grade?
Me:  Well, I don't like it, but I know you don't like it too, and it will at least get us back on the road and out of the rain.

Now, applying this analogy to the current political problems is tricky, as there is no obvious "mid-grade".  Of course, it is also complicated by the fact that the bill being argued over is suppsoed to just be about funding a budget, and the thing democrats are objecting to is introducing something totally unrelated to a bill that HAS to pass for the government to do a lot of their work.  Personally I don't understand how anyone can justify voting against a CR that doesn't have any extra ammendments, and is just what it should be - a means to fund the things that have been previously agreed upon to fund.  If you want to talk about what has been previously agreed upon, there is nothing stopping anyone from bringing that up, and putting it through normal political channels.  If those normal channels don't work, maybe it means it is time to move on, and focus efforts into something constructive.
 
2013-10-02 11:23:36 AM  
Another side effect:

My posting amount is going to have a sharp decrease as I am no longer being paid to screw around on Fark all day. Hopefully for everyone involved, this thing gets resolved and I can go back to being everyone joy, derp and trolls.
 
2013-10-02 12:16:58 PM  

MythDragon: Another side effect:

My posting amount is going to have a sharp decrease as I am no longer being paid to screw around on Fark all day. Hopefully for everyone involved, this thing gets resolved and I can go back to being everyone joy, derp and trolls.


Thanks, Obama.
 
2013-10-02 01:28:19 PM  

Bruce Campbell: Comedy is funny. Cloture is calling a game in the 3rd quarter, so as to not belabor the contest since the game is running long and the network has other programs it needs to air. It's a bad analogy.


I'm not sure what your point is, but I am guessing this is the "reconciliation is a crime against humanity( when Democrats do it)" argument, so I'll just ignore it.
 
2013-10-02 01:45:25 PM  

Skleenar: Bruce Campbell: Comedy is funny. Cloture is calling a game in the 3rd quarter, so as to not belabor the contest since the game is running long and the network has other programs it needs to air. It's a bad analogy.

I'm not sure what your point is, but I am guessing this is the "reconciliation is a crime against humanity( when Democrats do it)" argument, so I'll just ignore it.


It's clear that you are missing a lot of points.
 
2013-10-02 02:24:39 PM  

Bruce Campbell: It's clear that you are missing a lot of points.


Go ahead and itemize them, then.

Now, please don't take this as a characterization of anything you personally might be doing here, but I have found that quite often, on the internet, people who simply assert that they have a strong argument without identifying exactly what it is often don't have as strong an argument as they assert.

I'm just playing it safe here.  I'm sure you understand.
 
2013-10-02 05:50:08 PM  
Dems: Fund all of our programs
Congress: How about we talk about the programs on a one on one basis?
Dems: No! Stop holding us hostage! Do you see what you are doing to the children?!
Congress: What?
Media: Republicans hate children and want you to die.
 
2013-10-02 09:32:58 PM  
Screw Obama and his ideas. He is corrupt. I hope the republicans, (i dont like them either), stand their ground no matter what.

But here is what the Obama administration will probably do. They will begin shutting down welfare and punishing people until they get their way.

I say NO WAY. Obamacare needs to be eradicated. They will NEVER see a penny from me.
 
2013-10-03 08:16:53 AM  

whackamac: Screw Obama and his ideas. He is corrupt. I hope the republicans, (i dont like them either), stand their ground no matter what.

But here is what the Obama administration will probably do. They will begin shutting down welfare and punishing people until they get their way.

I say NO WAY. Obamacare needs to be eradicated. They will NEVER see a penny from me.


Who will never see a penny from you?  Doctors?  Have you never been ill or injured?  Did you not pay for medicine or treatment?  Are you on welfare?
 
2013-10-03 12:02:08 PM  

Skleenar: Go ahead and itemize them, then.


Go ahead and re-read up thread to see the points you missed.

I don't mean to generalize either, but you come off as a pompous waterboy defending one party, looking for a fight, when I said both parties contributing to this situation suck--point missed.  You link to wikipedia articles that have a vague relationship to the discussion; reconciliation applies when a budget is passed, which hasn't been the case FOR 4 YEARS--point missed.  No concurrence has occurred yet so how the hell can you reconcile something to which has not been agreed--point missed. You ignore the fact that both parties have shuttered government in the past, yet this instance is unconscionable, for some reason--point missed.  You don't understand when someone tries to explain to you when an analogy is bad--point missed.  You missed your own point of ignoring me--point missed.  As I stated, you miss a helluva lot of points.
 
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