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(Salon)   Don't blame the Republicans or Democrats for the shutdown. Blame the constitution itself, which was designed in a way which makes these situations inevitable, and which guarantees it's only going to get worse   (salon.com) divider line 137
    More: Interesting, Democrats, Senate Filibuster, parliamentary system, cost curve, checks and balances, rational actor, bill of rights, failed state  
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1255 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Oct 2013 at 5:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-01 01:36:08 PM  
And we're stuck with it.
 
2013-10-01 01:38:53 PM  
Let me think... no. I'm still going to blame the people who have consciously decided to abuse the system to try to impose their extremist agenda on the rest of the body politic.

By the way, subby, I never had any thought of blaming the Democrats for a crisis entirely of the Republicans' making.
 
2013-10-01 01:52:09 PM  
Yah, no. Any system is going to have loopholes, but you don't blame the system when people choose to exploit them in an effort to destroy the country. It's still the people's fault.
 
2013-10-01 02:00:39 PM  
The Tea Party refuses to govern, and this entire debacle can comfortably be laid directly at their feet.
 
2013-10-01 02:04:16 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: The Tea Party refuses to govern, and this entire debacle can comfortably be laid directly at their feet.


I think that's where this will all ultimately end up.. The saner (relatively speaking) part of the GOP is just waiting for the largest and heaviest bus to arrive to finally rid themselves of the Teatards.

Just saw a newsflash that the House will attempt to pass some piecemeal funding bills.. It'll be interesting to see if the Teatard faction tries to poison those with Obamacare delays, too.
 
2013-10-01 02:05:23 PM  
Only a bad craftsman blames his tools.
 
2013-10-01 02:13:32 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Only a bad craftsman blames his tools.


To be fair, it is a tool that's had to be serviced 27 times.

/Probably still a bit silly to "blame" the Constitution for this, though.
 
2013-10-01 02:23:31 PM  
Is this like "blame the gun"?
 
2013-10-01 02:39:22 PM  
If the country split into two right now, do you think both countries would use the Constitution as it is now for the basis of government?
 
2013-10-01 02:50:40 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Only a bad craftsman blames his tools.

To be fair, it is a tool that's had to be serviced 27 times.

/Probably still a bit silly to "blame" the Constitution for this, though.


I sharpen my blades and my kitchen knives when they need it. it's simple maintenance.
 
2013-10-01 03:00:49 PM  

Kittypie070: Relatively Obscure: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Only a bad craftsman blames his tools.

To be fair, it is a tool that's had to be serviced 27 times.

/Probably still a bit silly to "blame" the Constitution for this, though.

I sharpen my blades and my kitchen knives when they need it. it's simple maintenance.


Well, I guess this person thinks that our knife is looking pretty dull.
 
2013-10-01 03:31:25 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Kittypie070: Relatively Obscure: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Only a bad craftsman blames his tools.

To be fair, it is a tool that's had to be serviced 27 times.

/Probably still a bit silly to "blame" the Constitution for this, though.

I sharpen my blades and my kitchen knives when they need it. it's simple maintenance.

Well, I guess this person thinks that our knife is looking pretty dull.


Depends on if you use it to spread butter or hack up victims.
 
2013-10-01 03:51:20 PM  
Unfortunately, the drafters assumed it would be utilized by people behaving more or less like grown-ups.
 
2013-10-01 04:19:09 PM  

Nabb1: Unfortunately, the drafters assumed it would be utilized by people behaving more or less like grown-ups.


Do you believe the bulk of the blame for this lies with the house republicans or do you think the dems are at fault too?
 
2013-10-01 04:58:38 PM  
Sorry, Im blaming the Republicans.

Nice try.
 
2013-10-01 04:58:55 PM  
**Cue Anakin whining in favor of dictatorship
 
2013-10-01 05:01:10 PM  
yeah, no, it's the GOP's fault.
 
2013-10-01 05:04:02 PM  

SnakeLee: If the country split into two right now, do you think both countries would use the Constitution as it is now for the basis of government?


One would be modified with "Section 1a. See addendum A and B"
Addendum A = New Testament
Addendum B = Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged
 
2013-10-01 05:05:16 PM  

czetie: Let me think... no. I'm still going to blame the people who have consciously decided to abuse the system to try to impose their extremist agenda on the rest of the body politic.

By the way, subby, I never had any thought of blaming the Democrats for a crisis entirely of the Republicans' making.


Aaaaaaaaand we are done here
 
2013-10-01 05:07:46 PM  
Sure, Democrats said yes to the Republicans budget number. Sure Democrats compromised. But they didn't give in to EVERYTHING. Republicans asked for MORE and Democrats had the gall to say "how about you compromise too?".

What kind of bullshiat is that? Compromise means doing everything the Republicans ask.
 
2013-10-01 05:12:41 PM  
Post hoc ergo propter hoc
 
2013-10-01 05:15:28 PM  
More false equivalence horseshiat. The insane wing of the GOP took hostages. The blame lies directly with the people who thought they could hijack the basic workings of government to get something they couldn't get through the normal democratic process.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-10-01 05:25:57 PM  
No, it's the Republicans fault.

The framers of the constitution realized that laws are just ink on paper (or parchment).  No law can be better than the people who interpret it and the fact that the Constitution made it possible for one side to create a Constitutional crisis doesn't change the fact that the GOP chose to create one.

They have already ignored the 14th amendment and sacrifices the good of the nation for spite.  It isn't even about ideology, they aren't going to get what they want, they just want to make ordinary Americans suffer for siding with the black dude against them.
 
2013-10-01 05:30:43 PM  
The Constitution as amended allows our politicians to do a lot of stupid farking decisions, like the one House Republicans are currently pursuing.
 
2013-10-01 05:35:03 PM  
Inevitable?

No. That is a complete cop-out.

Last time it happened, 17 years ago, it was engineered by House Republicans. Coincidence?
 
IP
2013-10-01 05:47:16 PM  

czetie: By the way, subby, I never had any thought of blaming the Democrats for a crisis entirely of the Republicans' making.


Please tell the stupid press that.
 
2013-10-01 05:53:14 PM  
Please show me where the Hastert Rule is in the Constitution.
 
2013-10-01 05:56:57 PM  

IP: czetie: By the way, subby, I never had any thought of blaming the Democrats for a crisis entirely of the Republicans' making.

Please tell the stupid press that.


LIEBERAL MEDIA
 
2013-10-01 05:57:32 PM  

DamnYankees: And we're stuck with it.


It's the most perfect document ever penned by man!
 
2013-10-01 05:57:38 PM  

SnakeLee: If the country split into two right now, do you think both countries would use the Constitution as it is now for the basis of government?


Nope.  One would use the Constitution, and one would force a reversion to the Articles of Confederation.

I'll leave it up to you to guess which would use which.
 
2013-10-01 06:00:45 PM  

Nezorf: SnakeLee: If the country split into two right now, do you think both countries would use the Constitution as it is now for the basis of government?

One would be modified with "Section 1a. See addendum A and B"
Addendum A = New Testament
Addendum B = Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged


a) You don't really think Teatards have read the new testament, do you?
b) Rand and all her heroes were atheists
 
2013-10-01 06:00:53 PM  

AurizenDarkstar: SnakeLee: If the country split into two right now, do you think both countries would use the Constitution as it is now for the basis of government?

Nope.  One would use the Constitution, and one would force a reversion to the Articles of Confederation.

I'll leave it up to you to guess which would use which.


The only problem with this is within a decade we would have a failed state on our borders.
 
2013-10-01 06:00:55 PM  
I blame Abraham Lincoln.

Each passing day we come to see the South should have just been let go.
 
2013-10-01 06:02:12 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Nezorf: SnakeLee: If the country split into two right now, do you think both countries would use the Constitution as it is now for the basis of government?

One would be modified with "Section 1a. See addendum A and B"
Addendum A = New Testament
Addendum B = Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged

a) You don't really think Teatards have read the new testament, do you?
b) Rand and all her heroes were atheists


A two-part Constitution that demands cognitive dissonance sounds wrong to you for what reason exactly? It's perfect.
 
2013-10-01 06:02:18 PM  
...so vote Republican?

Amirite?
 
2013-10-01 06:02:25 PM  
Yet somehow this wasn't an issue for 250 years. No, I am going to blame the people most immediately responsible because I believe in free will.
 
2013-10-01 06:02:34 PM  
I thought we were supposed to blame the person who pulls the trigger, not the gun itself.
 
2013-10-01 06:03:24 PM  
What was that?  The framers deliberately made things difficult so that irrational behavior means nothing gets done to the detriment of the country?

The rapeublicans wanted too much
The emocrats didn't want to give anything
both of them are assholes

You assholes voted for these cheesedicks.  You own this.
 
2013-10-01 06:03:38 PM  
Finally, we can stop blaming Republicans.

Now I'll read through the thread to make sure everyone understood the instructions.
 
2013-10-01 06:04:05 PM  
Fine. Then let's amend the constitution so that the debt limit and and the budget become the same step, instead of two different steps.

You can't approve a budget that you can't pay for, and if you approve a budget, you have to pay for it.

Socialism!
 
2013-10-01 06:04:26 PM  
This is the disturbing thing: The Republicans are acting rationally.

Stopped reading right there.
 
2013-10-01 06:04:59 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Nezorf: SnakeLee: If the country split into two right now, do you think both countries would use the Constitution as it is now for the basis of government?

One would be modified with "Section 1a. See addendum A and B"
Addendum A = New Testament
Addendum B = Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged

a) You don't really think Teatards have read the new testament, do you?
b) Rand and all her heroes were atheists


Yes, well, Ted Cruz is a Tea Party darling and he's a Canadian-born, descended from Cuban heritage, Ivy-League educated immigrant. Rational coherence is not something the Tea Party is known for.
 
2013-10-01 06:05:50 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: Then let's amend the constitution so that the debt limit and and the budget become the same step, instead of two different steps.


The Democrats did this in 1979. It was called the Gephardt Rule. We only went back to having separate debt limit votes when the GOP took over the House and Gingrich separated the two votes again in order to grandstand on the debt ceiling.
 
2013-10-01 06:06:09 PM  

markie_farkie: Marcus Aurelius: The Tea Party refuses to govern, and this entire debacle can comfortably be laid directly at their feet.

I think that's where this will all ultimately end up.. The saner (relatively speaking) part of the GOP is just waiting for the largest and heaviest bus to arrive to finally rid themselves of the Teatards.


Watching this happen would be fascinating if it wasn't so utterly terrifying.

The Republican Party has two choices: They can continue walking down the path that the Tea Party has brought them down so far. Or they can purge the Tea Party and reinvent themselves. Either choice will be painful, dangerous, and will leave the Republican Party much smaller and weaker. The question is: are they going to rip off the bandage in one swift motion? Or are they going to peel it back slowly, clenching their teeth the whole time, prolonging the suffering of the entire body?

Right now, it's looking like the prolonged suffering one.
 
2013-10-01 06:06:29 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: The emocrats didn't want to give anything


This again, huh. Okay.

Smeggy Smurf, I demand you pay for a year of TF for me.
 
2013-10-01 06:06:39 PM  
Did a CTRL+F on the Constitution for "Hastert Rule".

0 Results.
 
2013-10-01 06:06:44 PM  
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people", but

"it's totally the constitution, not the people".
 
2013-10-01 06:07:50 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: What was that?  The framers deliberately made things difficult so that irrational behavior means nothing gets done to the detriment of the country?

The rapeublicans wanted too much
The emocrats didn't want to give anything
both of them are assholes

You assholes voted for these cheesedicks.  You own this.


Actually the both sides are bad people own this.

People like you.
 
2013-10-01 06:08:57 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: The rapeublicans wanted too much
The emocrats didn't want to give anything
both of them are assholes


No, see, this is patently retarded.

As an analogy, this would be like a co-worker coming up to you and saying "Unless you let me f*ck you in the ass without lube, I'm not going to do my job to such a massive degree that the company fails to pay any of us." In response, you say "No, I'm not going to let you f*ck me in the ass without lube. Go do your goddamn job." That is not "didn't want to give anything." That is, frankly, you not wanting to get f*cked by some piece of sh*t who won't do his goddamn job.
 
2013-10-01 06:10:52 PM  

Kome: Smeggy Smurf: The rapeublicans wanted too much
The emocrats didn't want to give anything
both of them are assholes

No, see, this is patently retarded.

As an analogy, this would be like a co-worker coming up to you and saying "Unless you let me f*ck you in the ass without lube, I'm not going to do my job to such a massive degree that the company fails to pay any of us." In response, you say "No, I'm not going to let you f*ck me in the ass without lube. Go do your goddamn job." That is not "didn't want to give anything." That is, frankly, you not wanting to get f*cked by some piece of sh*t who won't do his goddamn job.


Lube would have been the perfect negotiation. Win-win.
 
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