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(Politico)   GOP's new plan, in lieu of passing a CR, is to pass small, individual bills funding one program at a time, and they just won't pass one for Obamacare   (politico.com) divider line 381
    More: Followup, House GOP, obamacare, GOP, White House, Senate, farm bills, House Majority Leader, House Republican Conference  
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2374 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Oct 2013 at 3:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-01 07:52:53 PM  

DamnYankees: ...and the House has officially voted this tactic down. Dems needs 142 no votes, they are already at 158.


Seriously.

I'd like a functioning EPA, because our local regulating (actually they seem to just issue permits and rarely actually do any enforcement) is farking up bad.

We have a new wood waste electrical cogeneration facility that I was initially all for based on their proposed emission targets and local electric generation is a good thing.

They've been in operation for a while now, and have exceeded their permitted emissions levels multiple times, but only fine 3 times.

They applied to have the permit changed from "minor source" (which evades parts of the Clean Air Act apparently), and are going to be classified in with coal plants now and at least a little more heavily regulated, but despite the massive public outcry against the company breaking their promises, the local permitting agency is going to grant them the new permit.

/Done ranting, continue with the shutdown thread.
 
2013-10-01 07:53:18 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Floor debate among other things. A vote to table is a vote against taking it for general consideration. The problem is that any party with just ONE vote over 50 can effectively veto anything, and do it in a way that no one is on record for voting against the bill, just voting for a procedural question of whether to consider the bill. That's not democracy, that is a tyranny of the narrow majority. Reid didn't invent the tactic, but he has been excessively *ahem* liberal in his use of it as a means of quashing unwanted legislation.


So what you want Reid to do is put every bill up for a vote to pass, which would literally take, like, 5 days each time because cloture would need to be filed on the GOP filibuster. You think the process would be benefited by more speeches like Ted Cruz gave?

Again, how is this helpful? You do realize that the if the bill went to a full vote it would lose with the exact same vote count as the vote to table, right?

BojanglesPaladin: The problem is that any party with just ONE vote over 50 can effectively veto anything


Yes. That's how voting works. Would you prefer the Senate go by the rule that as long as the majority of the GOP Senators support something, the law passes?
 
2013-10-01 07:57:18 PM  

DamnYankees: So what you want Reid to do is put every bill up for a vote to pass


That would be nice. Yes.

The rest of your strawmen are not indicative of anything I have suggested, and so I can't really speak to any of that.

Have a nice evening.
 
2013-10-01 07:58:22 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: The rest of your strawmen are not indicative of anything I have suggested, and so I can't really speak to any of that.


You are correct. You clearly are not able to speak to anything I raised. I agree with you there.
 
2013-10-01 08:16:04 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: DamnYankees: So what you want Reid to do is put every bill up for a vote to pass

That would be nice. Yes.

The rest of your strawmen are not indicative of anything I have suggested, and so I can't really speak to any of that.

Have a nice evening.


I SAID GOOD DAY!
 
2013-10-01 08:25:12 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Do it! Repeal the individual mandate and sit back and watch the insurance companies implode because their business model now sucks balls.

Make that your compromise, Mr. President.

Then bring on Medicare For All.


Wasn't the Individual Mandate the compromise for the Republicans in the first place?  And now they're wanting to strip it?

Wouldn't removing the Individual Mandate make Obamacare even MORE awesome, since it's all the benefits (for individuals) with none of the risk?  Am I missing something?
 
2013-10-01 08:26:37 PM  

InmanRoshi: It took these bumbling retards 2 years to agree on a Farm Bill that 80% of them supported, and even then they could only get it through by breaking it up into seperate pieces.   Even on something that was a slam dunk no brainier like disaster relief after Sandy, they were at each other's throats and breaking out into civil wars.   You really think they could agree to dismantle and pass the entire federal budget item by item?    The entire premise ignores the basic underlying problem that a small, but ridiculously powerful, faction of the Republican caucus utterly hates the American government and specifically believes they were sent to Washington to sabotage it from the inside.


And predictably all three pieces of their broken up budgets fail to pass in their own chamber.
 
2013-10-01 08:27:02 PM  

DamnYankees: Other than the fact that they announced they wouldn't do that, sure.


So that is supposed to mean anything?

It's not even a matter of not believing politicians, that's just basic negotiating.
 
2013-10-01 08:30:32 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Evil High Priest: Right, this is all Reid's doing. Sure.

Not hardly. The teabaggers are definitely a huge part of the problem.

Tigger: Key difference...Reid is not willing to debate a topic that has already passed....

I am not speaking of Reid's actions only in this specific instance. I disagree with the teabaggers. But I also think it is worth noting that they aren't the only ones acting in bad faith by leveraging procedural technicalities, and when Reid has effectively nixed any and all bills out of the HR he doesn't like for years, it should not surprise anyone that the teabaggers so desperately jump on ways to get what they want by going around the normal processes.

Dwight_Yeast: I thought we didn't negotiate with terrorists here in the USA.

I don't think either Reid or Obama or the Teabaggers are "terrorists" and people who use that kind of rhetoric are just letting everyone know what binary partisan simpletons they really are.


That's not "procedural technicality", that's the democratic process.

Reid is under no obligation to pick up a bill just because the house passed it; he gets a vote too, and that's why he was elected.
 
2013-10-01 08:30:33 PM  

InmanRoshi: InmanRoshi: It took these bumbling retards 2 years to agree on a Farm Bill that 80% of them supported, and even then they could only get it through by breaking it up into seperate pieces.   Even on something that was a slam dunk no brainier like disaster relief after Sandy, they were at each other's throats and breaking out into civil wars.   You really think they could agree to dismantle and pass the entire federal budget item by item?    The entire premise ignores the basic underlying problem that a small, but ridiculously powerful, faction of the Republican caucus utterly hates the American government and specifically believes they were sent to Washington to sabotage it from the inside.

And predictably all three pieces of their broken up budgets fail to pass in their own chamber.


The clean CR the Senate sent back would pass right now, correct?

Boehner would lose his speakership, but it would pass.
 
2013-10-01 08:39:16 PM  

meat0918: InmanRoshi: InmanRoshi: It took these bumbling retards 2 years to agree on a Farm Bill that 80% of them supported, and even then they could only get it through by breaking it up into seperate pieces.   Even on something that was a slam dunk no brainier like disaster relief after Sandy, they were at each other's throats and breaking out into civil wars.   You really think they could agree to dismantle and pass the entire federal budget item by item?    The entire premise ignores the basic underlying problem that a small, but ridiculously powerful, faction of the Republican caucus utterly hates the American government and specifically believes they were sent to Washington to sabotage it from the inside.

And predictably all three pieces of their broken up budgets fail to pass in their own chamber.

The clean CR the Senate sent back would pass right now, correct?

Boehner would lose his speakership, but it would pass.


Yes, it would pass.

However, I wouldn't get my hopes up that Boehner is going to do anything brave or sane.    Boehner is nothing but a puppet and a figurehead for the faction of Tea Party extremists on the right.   He does absolutely nothing without their say.
 
2013-10-01 09:04:31 PM  

meat0918: The clean CR the Senate sent back would pass right now, correct?

Boehner would lose his speakership, but it would pass.


Peronsally I think he's going to lose it either way.

First, they are going to have to pass the clean CR at this point.  There's absolutely no cracks in the Democratic Party in the House or Senate or Obama.  In fact, I'd say they actually ratcheted up their language today.  The polling all indicates the public hated the idea of a shutdown even before it actually happened....so it's only going to get worse for them.  So, he's going to have to put it up for a vote, it will pass largely on the backs of Democrats, and at the point the Tea Baggers will be out for his scalp.

So, they pass it and what then?  We have the debt ceiling coming up in 16 days from today.  Can an already weakened House GOP survive ANOTHER manufactured crisis of their making?  Probably not, but the lunatics will try.  And Boehner at that point is farked.  He can either refuse to go along with them, further enraging his caucus by again 'siding' with Democrats, or he actually goes through with their hopes and either caves again without getting any concessions or goes down with the ship and creates an absolute farking economic disaster for which the GOP will be blamed, and he'll lose it then.

The guy is just farked at this point.  There's no playbook to work from since so much of this is unprecedented.  There's no close allies to rely upon because most of the House GOP leadership (Cantor especially) would kick him to the curb and even tried to do so when he was up for reelection last time around.  You have a freshman Senator born in Canada that is openly defying him and publicly manipulating the House GOP caucus.  The guy has always been weak, but he's certainly never appeared as weak as his does right now, and it's going downhill fast.
 
2013-10-01 09:17:26 PM  
If they want piecemeal voting, then we should take to the most logical conclusion. Itemized voting for everything in every department.

All in favor of House Resolution 6,891,293 - "New Printer Toner for the Department of Agriculture's Forest And Fisheries Pennsylvania office, 2nd floor, Accounting Department's Network Printer Model Epson 4890G"
 
2013-10-01 09:21:22 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: The guy is just farked at this point.  There's no playbook to work from since so much of this is unprecedented.  There's no close allies to rely upon


You're assuming that whatever unprecedented line was crossed can be crossed back again. The GOP won something here, like the ability to control all kinds of funding by signing off on it one item at a time. Like, do you think they will refund NASA without gigantic cuts? Do you think they will give NASA money for top up the days it goes unfunded?
 
2013-10-01 09:33:50 PM  

elchip: BojanglesPaladin: DamnYankees: So what you want Reid to do is put every bill up for a vote to pass

That would be nice. Yes.

The rest of your strawmen are not indicative of anything I have suggested, and so I can't really speak to any of that.

Have a nice evening.

I SAID GOOD DAY!


Ok see you two later! Drive safe, especially if you've been drinking!
 
2013-10-01 09:45:24 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: You're assuming that whatever unprecedented line was crossed can be crossed back again. The GOP won something here, like the ability to control all kinds of funding by signing off on it one item at a time. Like, do you think they will refund NASA without gigantic cuts? Do you think they will give NASA money for top up the days it goes unfunded?


How did they win the ability to do that?  Every single bill they put forward to line item fund specific items failed hard today...and there's never been anything in place to prevent such bills from being put forward in the past by either party.  The mere ability to put forward a bill is meaningless.  It's passage isn't even meaningful if it's destined to fail in the Senate or be vetoed.  Like the 40+ bills they passed to get rid of the ACA for example.
 
2013-10-01 09:51:11 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: If they want piecemeal voting, then we should take to the most logical conclusion. Itemized voting for everything in every department.

All in favor of House Resolution 6,891,293 - "New Printer Toner for the Department of Agriculture's Forest And Fisheries Pennsylvania office, 2nd floor, Accounting Department's Network Printer Model Epson 4890G"


Let me quote that bill for you:

1. The 2nd floor of the Accounting Department of the Pennsylvania Office of the Division of Forest and Fisheries of the Department of Agriculture shall buy toner for their Printer Model Epson 4890G.
2. All abortion shall be permanently and irrevocably eliminated in the Unites States.

and they'll hope that everyone will be too worn out to notice. Which, by the way, is the only reason to pass piecemeal legislation that adds up to a clean CR.
 
2013-10-01 09:55:02 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: I thought there were 3 parts to the US federal government, the Presidency Nina, the Senate Pinto, and the Congress Santa Monica, but apparently there is only one, their Congress, and they can simply choose what to fund without consulting the other 2. This kind of shakes up my view of the USA.


Actually, the three branches of the United States government are the executive branch (the president and his cabinet, along with various regulatory agencies), the legislative branch (AKA Congress, which in turn consists of the Senate and the House of Representatives), and the judicial (the federal courts).
 
2013-10-01 10:00:17 PM  

ivan: HotWingConspiracy: So they don't even understand the desired functionality of their own shut down. The entire idea was to pin blame on the president so he would have to deal with the fallout and come to the table. Funding things that people like goes against that goal.

What the fark is the end game?

No end game. This will go down in history as one of the biggest boners ever pulled by a government faction.

You could see it all over Bohner's face last night, when he could barely grind out a few pathetic talking points during his 1-minute post-shutdown "press conference": fear, anger, resentment, embarrassment, fear, defeat.


You said "fear" twice.
 
2013-10-01 10:03:21 PM  

ImpendingCynic: and they'll hope that everyone will be too worn out to notice. Which, by the way, is the only reason to pass piecemeal legislation that adds up to a clean CR.


Who said they would pass an entire CR? If the goal is to allow departments to be funded one at a time, what's to stop Speaker Papaya from putting the Department of Defense's procurement and weapons appropriations on the floor first and never getting around to Housing and Urban Development's fair housing standards board? If the Democrats are stupid enough to go for that plan, they deserve to have everything except boom devices cut by 50% and budgets frozen from inflation adjustments for next century.
 
2013-10-01 11:00:22 PM  

Heliovdrake: jst3p: BojanglesPaladin: Don't kid yourselves. Reid is being every bit a obstructionist as the teabaggers. He is a huge part of the problem.

I was confused, it isn't that you are a partisan hack. It is just that you regularly say things like this that are just plain incorrect.

Call it what they are,

Lies.


ALL THE TIME! They do it ALL THE TIME!!!

They are doing it RIGHT F*CKING NOW!

/thank you mediablitz
 
2013-10-01 11:05:37 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: Boehner would lose his speakership, but it would pass.

Peronsally I think he's going to lose it either way.


There is no point in the Tea Party kicking out Boehner of his Speakership.    At the moment he's their willing puppet who will do anything they tell him to do because he just wants to be the Speaker more than anything.  He has absolutely no backbone or spine to do anything without their blessing.     Kicking him out and replacing him with another puppet really doesn't accomplish anything.     As far as spineless puppets go, Boehner has some tools in his toolbox for the Tea Party to use in that he can coerce the old school moderates to go along with the program against their misgivings and better judgement.  He has a lot of pull with them because they've been in the trenches a long time together.   It's a cache that your typical neo-confederate insurrectionist Tea Party guy elected in 2010 and 2012 doesn't have.
 
2013-10-01 11:51:10 PM  

yukichigai: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Do it! Repeal the individual mandate and sit back and watch the insurance companies implode because their business model now sucks balls.

Make that your compromise, Mr. President.

Then bring on Medicare For All.

Wasn't the Individual Mandate the compromise for the Republicans in the first place?  And now they're wanting to strip it?

Wouldn't removing the Individual Mandate make Obamacare even MORE awesome, since it's all the benefits (for individuals) with none of the risk?  Am I missing something?


The individual mandate is what makes sure that people can't just get insurance only once they need it. Without it, you could start benefiting from insurance without having paid a dime into it. That is only awesome if you're not thinking about sustainability.
 
2013-10-02 01:17:39 AM  

scanman61: SnakeLee: I don't get how they can lie so blatantly and not get called out across the board, but here we are.


It's because the reporters covering this clusterfark are more concerned about keeping their access than they are about informing the public.

You can't fill a 24 hour news channel without lots of "interviews".


You know, here's a crazy plan.

1. Call out the lying liars when they lie
2. Get denied access to the lying liars
3. No one gets to hear the lying liars because no one has access

A little collusion among the major news networks would be all that it takes.

Come on, someone has to have as much stones as the little boy who who pointed out that the emperor had no clothes.

/ trouble is news executives have about as much foresight as most Tea Party adherents
 
2013-10-02 01:36:55 AM  

colon_pow: Infernalist: Any bill coming from the House needs to have WIC and food assistance funding attached to it and sent back to the House for another vote.

you sound hungry.


So are you indirectly claiming that you, personally require no food?
 
2013-10-02 02:18:27 AM  

Kittypie070: colon_pow: Infernalist: Any bill coming from the House needs to have WIC and food assistance funding attached to it and sent back to the House for another vote.

you sound hungry.

So are you indirectly claiming that you, personally require no food?


Bootstraps and gravy - it's not just for breakfast anymore.
 
2013-10-02 03:21:01 AM  

GhostFish: The individual mandate is what makes sure that people can't just get insurance only once they need it. Without it, you could start benefiting from insurance without having paid a dime into it. That is only awesome if you're not thinking about sustainability.


Ah yes, that would be unfortunate.

On the other hand, that would basically mean the death of all insurance companies if it operated that way, at least eventually.  Insurance companies can't keep up, are forced to go bankrupt, government has to step in, and we all get single payer like we should have had in the first place.

...well that's a best-case scenario.  Worst case, chaos and disaster.  And since the Republicans are at the helm, worst case is the only thing I'm betting on.
 
2013-10-02 09:22:48 AM  

BojanglesPaladin: sdd2000: A motion to table requires a vote (or unanimous consent, which was not the case here) and any senator can ask for a recorded roll call vote. In fact they did a roll call vote on that motion by a 54-46 vote.

Yes. And it is not the same thing as passing a bill by vote. It is a resolution to decide whether to hear the bill, which As Reid has demonstrated any number of times before, is a procedural way to prevent any HR legislation he does not pre-approve from ever being passed because he has the 51 votes to keep it from getting to that point.

Don't kid yourselves. Reid is being every bit a obstructionist as the teabaggers. He is a huge part of the problem.


I understand what you are saying, but it doesn't make any sense at all.

And if all you want is that a period of debate be allowed...how many hours was Ted Cruz talking for again?  How much good did that do anyone?
 
2013-10-02 12:30:37 PM  

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: And if all you want is that a period of debate be allowed...how many hours was Ted Cruz talking for again?


20 something hours, I believe. And that was not debate.

Weird that you would go to THAT as a response. What gives you the impression that I favor Cruz? Surely, even a cursory glance at my comments here in this thread make it clear that I am no fan of the teabaggers, and yet you seem to think that the alternative to Reid stonewalling and quashing everything is.. what? Giving the teabaggers free reign? Is your view so binary, that if I criticize one team, I must therefore be a member of the "other" team? Is your view of politics so limited?
 
2013-10-02 01:28:34 PM  

kc278: ivan: HotWingConspiracy: So they don't even understand the desired functionality of their own shut down. The entire idea was to pin blame on the president so he would have to deal with the fallout and come to the table. Funding things that people like goes against that goal.

What the fark is the end game?

No end game. This will go down in history as one of the biggest boners ever pulled by a government faction.

You could see it all over Bohner's face last night, when he could barely grind out a few pathetic talking points during his 1-minute post-shutdown "press conference": fear, anger, resentment, embarrassment, fear, defeat.

You said "fear" twice.


Yes, I like Lee Ving.
 
2013-10-02 11:39:09 PM  
Yes, so, a day later, how is that going? They can't pass anything, can they?
 
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