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(Politico)   GOP's new plan, in lieu of passing a CR, is to pass small, individual bills funding one program at a time, and they just won't pass one for Obamacare   (politico.com) divider line 381
    More: Followup, House GOP, obamacare, GOP, White House, Senate, farm bills, House Majority Leader, House Republican Conference  
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2372 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Oct 2013 at 3:22 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-01 04:53:50 PM
Kuroshin: ... I've been going with the belief that they actually don't want fedgov to operate at all.  That the shutdown *was* the goal they were trying to achieve, and the ACA was just a convenient cyanide pill.

DINGDINGDING! We have a winner!
 
2013-10-01 04:54:13 PM

BojanglesPaladin: This and previous debacles are a direct result of both Parties deciding that it is better to be right than to serve the interests of the country


Ahh, there's the old BP. Both sides are bad.
 
2013-10-01 04:57:01 PM

BojanglesPaladin: jst3p: OK, who took over BP's account?
sdd2000: Some one get a calendar BojanglesPaladin actually wrote something that has some level of sense in it.

Interesting how your perception of me changes depending on whether I seem to be on your "side"   spewing blatantly partisan easily debunked bullshiat

 or not
 
2013-10-01 04:59:24 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: If that's the case, why object to piecemeal funding of everything else, everything that does not relate to Obamacare.

Why can't these "piecemeal" fundings be done all at once? Say, in a continuing resolution?

Not that I am defending this stupid practice going on in the Capitol today, but if they are funded, then that's it for the whole year, right? The CR would only last until December 31, from what I can gather. The funding bills would carry the departments through until the end of FY14, which is 9/30/2014.

Or am I mistaken? It's entirely possible.


One of the problems with funding something by program is that it encourages votes among party lines. When you bundle what you like with what you dislike - you usually end up voting for the bill. If you're allowed to separate it - you're no longer forced to compromise.
 
2013-10-01 04:59:33 PM
You know what, GOP?

Eat a bag of raw, unprocessed cocks; pass the damn CR, and GTFBTW, assholes.
 
2013-10-01 05:00:21 PM
That would be a fine plan if they started doing it around May.

Now that we're already shut down, just make with the CR already.
 
2013-10-01 05:01:14 PM

cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: If that's the case, why object to piecemeal funding of everything else, everything that does not relate to Obamacare.

Why can't these "piecemeal" fundings be done all at once? Say, in a continuing resolution?


I was thinking they should do them piecemeal in many different parts, let's say one piecemeal spending bill for each House sub- committee covering they section of the government they oversee.  Then as each sub-committee sends its bill to the floor, they could be packaged together for the final vote. Kind of like when many people are making the same trip, they would take a bus instead of all going alone.  So, you put these bills on the bus, and you might need, I dunno, thirteen different buses to fit all the bills, and then send those thirteen buses to the House floor for a vote.  But if you're really pressed for time, you might even make a bus for all the buses, so instead of thirteen separate buses, you have one bus that holds all of the bills in each of the buses; a sort of Omni-bus, if you will. But the nice thing about this plan is that all of the Congressional sub-committees get to have their say on the budget that they've been assigned responsibility for by virtue of their committee assignment.

I'm still working out the kinks in this, but I think it could work. What do you think, Skinnyhead? Do you think Republicans should try this route?

/bus
 
2013-10-01 05:01:57 PM

DamnYankees: I mean, it sort of makes sense - it's a pretty simple hostage scenario


Actually, it's a more complicated hostage scenario.

It's as if the Semiconscious Liberation Army had taken an entire auditorium full of people hostage... but some of those people they actually like, and some of them a minority of extremists in the SLA want killed by any means necessary. So, they're trying to negotiate with the cops to let some of the more SLA-popular hostages go. (Which arguably parallels the Iranian crisis, where 13 women and ethnic minorities that the Iranians considered US-oppressed were released early on, while most of the original 66 had to wait.)

The hazard is that as the remaining hostages average less and less popular, the more and more likely it is that the extremists will be willing to blow up the building to kill the hostages most loathed, and consider any other casualties to be acceptable losses.
 
2013-10-01 05:03:15 PM
So they don't even understand the desired functionality of their own shut down. The entire idea was to pin blame on the president so he would have to deal with the fallout and come to the table. Funding things that people like goes against that goal.

What the fark is the end game?
 
2013-10-01 05:04:26 PM

parasol: DeaH:
Let's see if I get the logic of this. Government shutting down is bad. It's so bad that we think we can pressure the President and the Senate into giving us a bunch of stuff we want and they don't. But let's make it less bad by passing a bunch of stuff. That'll pressure them into giving into our demands!


On the other hand? Not funding some stuff (say, HeadStart or WIC?) will merely "prove" these programs are a waste of money - after all? it didn't really impact you, did it?  The talking point writes itself.


But, you see, this sort of thing is exactly why negotiations are created. The House puts out a bill to fund soldiers. The Senate sends it back with an attachment for SNAP pointing out that many of our armed forces' families rely on Supplemental Nutritional Assistance. Now the Republicans are in a position of paying our soldiers, but not letting them feed their families.

Seriously, this is so dumb that it's a wonder these guys can walk erect.
 
2013-10-01 05:04:33 PM

acchief: TheOtherGuy: At what point is it appropriate and necessary to define both the GOP and Tea Party as terrorist organizations, lock everybody up until and unless they promise to both act like freakin' adults and do their sworn duty as elected officials?  I mean, they've now done demonstrable harm to the United States, in terms of dollars, in terms of human cost.  What, exactly makes them not enemies of the state at this point?  They're organized, and seeking to affect the functioning of the state in an adversarial way by sowing chaos.

They're not objecting and trying to change or even overthrow a corrupt, incompetent, or tyrannical government.   They're trying to TAKE OVER and install their own corrupt, incompetent, and tyrannical government.

Before you all rip into me, I'd rather not do this.  Really.  Everyone, elected or otherwise, has the right to disagree with the government and seek redress of grievances.  This is so not that.  It is abuse of political power to affect discord and destruction.  If it's not a crime, it bloody well ought to be.

I'm not an idiot.  I know this won't affect the majority of citizens in any significant way, at least not in the short term - which is probably the point they want to prove.  It's the precedent that bothers me.  Next time the blackmail may kill something more significant to the nation than park rangers' jobs.  Never mind the fact that it matters to you if you're a ranger...

Actually, no. They were elected by the people, and were given authority by the constitution to control the purse. So, to paraphrase Obama's own words, the people have spoken.


Sure, if self-deception makes you feel better.  They could hide behind your justification successfully  if the debt ceiling were something they admittedly felt and could demonstrate was a dangerous thing to raise.  As in, "We don't think you should raise it, so we won't approve it, period."  Instead, they say "Oh, sure, it's fine to raise it, but only if we get to hold your  legally passed legislation hostage.  No, that's not government, that's not responsible "purse strings" management as you say.  That's extortion, and we're the ones being extorted, not the Dems.
 
2013-10-01 05:06:14 PM

HotWingConspiracy: So they don't even understand the desired functionality of their own shut down. The entire idea was to pin blame on the president so he would have to deal with the fallout and come to the table. Funding things that people like goes against that goal.

What the fark is the end game?


the underpants gnomes haven't told them yet.
 
2013-10-01 05:06:17 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-01 05:08:00 PM

DamnYankees: Has Reid announced he'll reject these smaller bills?


Here's your answer:

'Republicans are now trying to cherry-pick a few parts of the government to keep open. We won't pick and choose. We must re-open all of govt.'From Reid's twitter feed.
 
2013-10-01 05:08:07 PM

HotWingConspiracy: What the fark is the end game?


I don't think they have a clue how this ends.
 
2013-10-01 05:08:24 PM

jst3p: spewing blatantly partisan easily debunked bullshiat or not


Sigh. You know I have you tagged as "Usually well reasoned", but lately, you have been putting that to the test.


Especially with nonsense like this. You know as well as anyone here that I don't, in fact, engage in advocating for partisan positions. Quite the opposite.

The problem is that you are, unfortunately, a partisan and cannot really conceptualize anything outside of that binary worldview. So when I am critical of Obama, it triggers your partisan attack mode, because I am "other". But when I am critical of the teabaggers, it doesn't register, because I am not "other". When I am supportive of Wendy Davis, nothing. When I am critical of The Hair (Perry), nothing. But when I am critical of Feinstein's irrational assault weapons ban, your partisan attack mode is engaged.

Again, my positions don't change, it's just that the question "Does taking this position put me in or out of alignment with a political party" just never enters into it.

What changes is your response to my posts invariable, and boorishly predictably determined by whether you interpret whatever I happen to post is "for" or "against" your "team".

And you can be better than that. If you choose to.
 
2013-10-01 05:09:36 PM

cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: Because we tried that, and we can't bring both sides together that way

Why not? Which side is unwilling to fund the government? Seems to me that's the goal of both sides, is it not?


The House does not want to fund Obamacare.  They're willing to fund everything but Obamacare.  They've made that clear.  You say that Obamacare is already funded.  That provides an opportunity for a work around.  Funding non-controversial portions of the budget piecemeal means that the government gets funded in all aspects, except for those portions that fund Obamacare.   There is no reason for Harry Reid to shut down the entire government over this.
 
2013-10-01 05:09:59 PM

Shrugging Atlas: DamnYankees: Has Reid announced he'll reject these smaller bills?

Here's your answer:

'Republicans are now trying to cherry-pick a few parts of the government to keep open. We won't pick and choose. We must re-open all of govt.'From Reid's twitter feed.


Gracias.
 
2013-10-01 05:10:17 PM
BP would like you all to know that he takes pride in being wrong regardless of who agrees with any particular position that he takes.
 
2013-10-01 05:10:42 PM

HotWingConspiracy: So they don't even understand the desired functionality of their own shut down. The entire idea was to pin blame on the president so he would have to deal with the fallout and come to the table. Funding things that people like goes against that goal.

What the fark is the end game?


No end game. This will go down in history as one of the biggest boners ever pulled by a government faction.

You could see it all over Bohner's face last night, when he could barely grind out a few pathetic talking points during his 1-minute post-shutdown "press conference": fear, anger, resentment, embarrassment, fear, defeat.
 
2013-10-01 05:12:14 PM

HotWingConspiracy: What the fark is the end game?


They're going to end up getting the medical device tax repealed, and and about a 10 point drop on the generic ballot.  They could have easily gotten that yesterday.
 
2013-10-01 05:12:18 PM

HotWingConspiracy: So they don't even understand the desired functionality of their own shut down. The entire idea was to pin blame on the president so he would have to deal with the fallout and come to the table. Funding things that people like goes against that goal.

What the fark is the end game?


Penis-caught-in-zipper level self destruction?
 
2013-10-01 05:12:29 PM
SkinnyHead:   There is no reason for Harry Reid to shut down the entire government over this.

Sometimes you're amusing, but other times you're just a dick.
 
2013-10-01 05:12:45 PM

SkinnyHead: This sounds like a good idea.  Fund everything in piecemeal fashion except Obamacare, and that effectively ends Harry Reid's government shutdown.  They've already done it once for military pay.  Senate agreed to that.  Fund everything else (except Obamacare) in the same way.


I'm going to ask this again: was there a lot of lead in the paint where you grew up?
 
2013-10-01 05:13:36 PM

Skyrmion: Marcus Aurelius: SnakeLee: I don't get how they can lie so blatantly and not get called out across the board, but here we are

They have FOX News carrying their water for them.

Yeah, see this isn't really a government "shutdown", it's more like a happy little "slimdown".

[retired.talkingpointsmemo.com image 742x600]


I had to go to the site before I believed that wasn't a photoshop. My god, the stupid, it burns.
 
2013-10-01 05:14:00 PM

BMFPitt: HotWingConspiracy: What the fark is the end game?

They're going to end up getting the medical device tax repealed, and and about a 10 point drop on the generic ballot.  They could have easily gotten that yesterday.


The Dems are not going to repeal that to get a CR passed. They've already said no to that.
 
2013-10-01 05:14:34 PM

SkinnyHead: The House does not want to fund Obamacare.  They're willing to fund everything but Obamacare.  They've made that clear.  You say that Obamacare is already funded.  That provides an opportunity for a work around.


How is this a workaround? A clean CR does the exact same thing you're describing.
 
2013-10-01 05:14:44 PM

SkinnyHead: cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: Because we tried that, and we can't bring both sides together that way

Why not? Which side is unwilling to fund the government? Seems to me that's the goal of both sides, is it not?

The House does not want to fund Obamacare.  They're willing to fund everything but Obamacare.  They've made that clear.  You say that Obamacare is already funded.  That provides an opportunity for a work around.  Funding non-controversial portions of the budget piecemeal means that the government gets funded in all aspects, except for those portions that fund Obamacare.   There is no reason for Harry Reid to shut down the entire government over this.


That is completely untrue.  A few dozen republican extremists refuse to recognize the law of the land and do their jobs - not all of congress.  In fact, if Boehner brought a clean continuing resolution to the floor for a vote it would pass easily.

It's not democrats v. republicans.  It's Tea Party extremists v. everybody else.
 
2013-10-01 05:15:13 PM

Shrugging Atlas: 'Republicans are now trying to cherry-pick a few parts of the government to keep open. We won't pick and choose. We must re-open all of govt.'From Reid's twitter feed.


Glad to see Reid is as open to discussion as always. Unsurprising but still disappointing. Reid has plenty of blood on his hands in this.

I wish he would actually let some of the HR teabagger nonsense just get to an open vote on the Senate floor and be voted down instead of just killing everything in committee and stonewalling nearly everything that comes from the House. It's like he's terrified that some of it might actually pass, and won't take the risk. But it would be so much better if he let the legislative process work and make the republicans do the work of reconciliation to get the votes. All this "poison pill" amendments and procedural stonewalling (which he is admittedly very good at) is a major source of these things going unresolved until they hit the wall. These issues can and should be getting addressed before there is a crisis, but I think Reid prefers the showdowns.
 
2013-10-01 05:15:42 PM
I think everyone in this thread needs to go ahead and use the report function at the bottom of the page to report skinnyhead for trolling.


No,  really... or put him on ignore...
 
2013-10-01 05:17:14 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Glad to see Reid is as open to discussion as always. Unsurprising but still disappointing. Reid has plenty of blood on his hands in this.


How so? Because he won't give the GOP everything they want? Come on.
 
2013-10-01 05:17:21 PM
Just read this:

 Republican leaders intend to bring their minibills  to the floor under a suspension of the rules. To pass, they need a two-thirds majority vote, and to reach that two-thirds, they'll need Democratic votes.

So this shiat won't even get out of the House.
 
2013-10-01 05:18:10 PM

Heliovdrake: I think everyone in this thread needs to go ahead and use the report function at the bottom of the page to report skinnyhead for trolling.
No,  really... or put him on ignore...


What do you think he is doing that is Trolling?
 
2013-10-01 05:18:29 PM

SkinnyHead: cameroncrazy1984: SkinnyHead: Because we tried that, and we can't bring both sides together that way

Why not? Which side is unwilling to fund the government? Seems to me that's the goal of both sides, is it not?

The House does not want to fund Obamacare.  They're willing to fund everything but Obamacare.  They've made that clear.  You say that Obamacare is already funded.  That provides an opportunity for a work around.  Funding non-controversial portions of the budget piecemeal means that the government gets funded in all aspects, except for those portions that fund Obamacare.   There is no reason for Harry Reid to shut down the entire government over this.


There's no reason to shutdown the government because you dislike funding certain things.

I dislike funding some of the DoD subcontractors but I'm not shutting down the government over it.

Are you implying that anytime a group of Congress critters are against funding something - they should be allowed to shutdown the government? That seems silly, no?
 
2013-10-01 05:18:30 PM

DamnYankees: Just read this:

 Republican leaders intend to bring their minibills  to the floor under a suspension of the rules. To pass, they need a two-thirds majority vote, and to reach that two-thirds, they'll need Democratic votes.

So this shiat won't even get out of the House.


Haha really? Oh wow. Each GOP plan gets worse.
 
2013-10-01 05:18:40 PM

HotWingConspiracy: So they don't even understand the desired functionality of their own shut down. The entire idea was to pin blame on the president so he would have to deal with the fallout and come to the table. Funding things that people like goes against that goal.

What the fark is the end game?


1) Plant potato
2) Destroy Government
3) Free chickens and spuds for all!
 
2013-10-01 05:19:07 PM

Skyrmion: Yeah, see this isn't really a government "shutdown", it's more like a happy little "slimdown".


That is goddamn hilarious. Even Fox News knows the shutdown is on the GOP.

I'm unbelievably amused.
 
2013-10-01 05:19:16 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Heliovdrake: I think everyone in this thread needs to go ahead and use the report function at the bottom of the page to report skinnyhead for trolling.
No,  really... or put him on ignore...

What do you think he is doing that is Trolling?


Ironically? Refusing to compromise.
 
2013-10-01 05:19:30 PM

DamnYankees: Just read this:

 Republican leaders intend to bring their minibills  to the floor under a suspension of the rules. To pass, they need a two-thirds majority vote, and to reach that two-thirds, they'll need Democratic votes.

So this shiat won't even get out of the House.


I've been trying desperately to find a GIF of a kid putting something on a table and having it violently slapped away.

That's all this is, a bunch of children who keep pulling stunts and having their toys knocked off the dinner table.
 
2013-10-01 05:19:42 PM

DamnYankees: The Dems are not going to repeal that to get a CR passed. They've already said no to that.


They said no to that plus delaying the individual mandate by a year.  They would do that by itself in a heartbeat.
 
2013-10-01 05:21:01 PM

BMFPitt: DamnYankees: The Dems are not going to repeal that to get a CR passed. They've already said no to that.

They said no to that plus delaying the individual mandate by a year.  They would do that by itself in a heartbeat.


Other than the fact that they announced they wouldn't do that, sure.
 
2013-10-01 05:21:05 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Shrugging Atlas: 'Republicans are now trying to cherry-pick a few parts of the government to keep open. We won't pick and choose. We must re-open all of govt.'From Reid's twitter feed.

Glad to see Reid is as open to discussion as always. Unsurprising but still disappointing. Reid has plenty of blood on his hands in this.

I wish he would actually let some of the HR teabagger nonsense just get to an open vote on the Senate floor and be voted down instead of just killing everything in committee and stonewalling nearly everything that comes from the House. It's like he's terrified that some of it might actually pass, and won't take the risk. But it would be so much better if he let the legislative process work and make the republicans do the work of reconciliation to get the votes. All this "poison pill" amendments and procedural stonewalling (which he is admittedly very good at) is a major source of these things going unresolved until they hit the wall. These issues can and should be getting addressed before there is a crisis, but I think Reid prefers the showdowns.


Each of the CR's with the poison TeaBagger pills has in fact been voted down in the full senate (via tabling), not in a committee. A budget bill was passed by the senate and the TeaBaggers in the senate (AKA Cruz and Lee especially) as well as the house GOP prevented a conference committee to be appointed to work out the differences.
 
2013-10-01 05:21:17 PM

DamnYankees: Just read this:
Republican leaders intend to bring their minibills to the floor under a suspension of the rules. To pass, they need a two-thirds majority vote, and to reach that two-thirds, they'll need Democratic votes. So this shiat won't even get out of the House.


That's actually interesting and a good point. Got a cite?
 
2013-10-01 05:22:08 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Heliovdrake: I think everyone in this thread needs to go ahead and use the report function at the bottom of the page to report skinnyhead for trolling.
No,  really... or put him on ignore...

What do you think he is doing that is Trolling?


No one who can type and use the internet is actually as dumb as Skinnyhead is pretending to be, he is being willfully obtuse, and ignoring simple logical lines of reasoning.

He has two possible defenses.

1. He really is this dumb.

2. He is trolling.

Sadly they are effectively the same in end result right now.
 
2013-10-01 05:22:19 PM

Infernalist: Any bill coming from the House needs to have WIC and food assistance funding attached to it and sent back to the House for another vote.


you sound hungry.
 
2013-10-01 05:22:40 PM

BojanglesPaladin: DamnYankees: Just read this:
Republican leaders intend to bring their minibills to the floor under a suspension of the rules. To pass, they need a two-thirds majority vote, and to reach that two-thirds, they'll need Democratic votes. So this shiat won't even get out of the House.

That's actually interesting and a good point. Got a cite?


http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/government-shutdown-house-gop- to -democrats-negotiate-97639.html
 
2013-10-01 05:23:31 PM
I don't know why anyone would think this will work. The Teahadists will probably attach the "defund Obamacare"  to each one and nothing will ever get passed.
 
2013-10-01 05:23:53 PM
House Republicans are trying to pressure Democrats on their side of the dome. The bills will come up undersuspension of the rules , which means they must garner two-thirds of the chamber for passage.
 
2013-10-01 05:24:49 PM

cameroncrazy1984: BojanglesPaladin: Heliovdrake: I think everyone in this thread needs to go ahead and use the report function at the bottom of the page to report skinnyhead for trolling.
No,  really... or put him on ignore...

What do you think he is doing that is Trolling?

Ironically? Refusing to compromise.


He has continued to refuse to even acknowledge that he owes me 2 years of total fark.

He has not ONCE come to the table in good faith to give me the 2 years of total fark that I want from him.

Which I want paid for in 1 month increments, not all at once.

Why one he even consider negotiating for my 2 years of total fark?
 
2013-10-01 05:25:16 PM
Compromise: We'll fund all of the things we do like, but none of the things we don't like.
 
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