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(Think Progress)   Park Service: We're sorry, but the WWII Memorial is closed due to the government shut down. WWII Veterans: How about no? Does no work for you?   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 355
    More: Hero, WWII Memorial, veterans, park police  
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17279 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Oct 2013 at 12:40 PM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-01 02:10:51 PM

lockers: There is a public safety issue and the government is liable. They shut it down because to avoid liability.


You can't sue the government.
Thanks for playing.
 
2013-10-01 02:12:51 PM
They are lucky the WWII Vets didn't clear the barricades the way they did in WWII:
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-01 02:13:16 PM
So the people who are mad about this are going to march a couple blocks down to the Capitol to go shiat on Ted Cruz' desk, right?
 
2013-10-01 02:15:08 PM

Mr. Eugenides: mongbiohazard: Cataholic: Lord_Baull: Is it me, or does putting barricades in front of a public area just because there's no one to pick up trash around the area sound really stupid?

You have to pay people to put up barricades.  How else are you going to claim that not running the government costs $2 Billion more than the $3 Billion a day you spend running it.


This kind of comment really boggles my mind, and there are many in this thread.

Do you mean to tell me that you aren't actually capable of understanding what a skeleton crew is? That you've heard of this news, but somehow avoided hearing that some federal workers deemed "essential" are still working - like the kind of folks who would be needed to police areas or shut down operations.

I'm pretty sure I've met beach towels who could understand these concepts, so I'm guessing it's not a lack of ability so much as willful ignorance.

If they have staff to police the area then what's the need to shut it down?


My assumption is they have just enough staff to keep ten people per day from hopping the fence and carving their name onto Abe Lincoln's lap but not enough to handle 10,000 visitors per day. So it's safer to just tell everyone to keep out.
 
2013-10-01 02:15:36 PM

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Has anyone mentioned the WW II Monument is actually really crappy?  It's just a rotund little plaza with state names posted randomly around it.  In no way does it evoke the war itself.  Just kind of a bland public space.  Oh, and it interrupts the flow from the Lincoln Memorial up to the Washington Memorial - it's not smooth to navigate.

Contrast with the Korean War Memorial which can be really haunting.  And the Vietnam War Memorial, which is genius.


This. It looks it was designed by 1920s fascists. And not talented fascists, either; fascist hacks. Or worse, as if it were designed by a House committee, or the clods Ross Perot hired to make the bronze statue next to Maya Lin's masterpiece. A pond, a colonnade with funeral wreaths and state names on them, and some really cheesy bronze eagles. Me no likey.

This sucks:

fc09.deviantart.net
 
2013-10-01 02:15:56 PM

spidermilk: I visited Yosemite last year and 3 park rangers were loading a guy who had died on the trail onto a stretcher.


Vultures gotta eat, too.
 
2013-10-01 02:16:44 PM

lockers: So the derpists just break the law when they don't like what they have forced to happen. Intervesting.


Your statement assessing derp is full of derp.  Derp.

/derp
 
2013-10-01 02:19:09 PM
I only wish civilians had as much fight in them as these guys.

/But then, I'd expect a lot more resistance if civilians pulled this kind of stunt...
 
2013-10-01 02:19:48 PM

strangeluck: Saw this little earlier, Hero tag well used subby.

F*ck the government shut down.


While the park should not have been shut down, you do not get to trespass because you're a veteran. The laws do apply. Yes, it sucks. Guess what? There's a fark-ton of federal workers getting furloughed, there's a fark-ton of private sector workers who will get the ripple effects of this...veterans are not special snowflakes, and while I'm sorry their trip got screwed up, trespassing was a childish temper tantrum, not the response of grown adults.
 
2013-10-01 02:23:35 PM
so If I understand this thread correctly...The Occupy movement was right....and the vets were wrong..so lets just say the Vet's were occupying the monument and everyone is happy!
 
2013-10-01 02:24:04 PM
Shutting down the WWII Memorial is the government just being abunch of pansy assed drama queens.  There is nothing to open or close you just walk around the reflecting pool.  That's the government's problem in a nut shell, they are paying two people just to watch other people walk around a stone monument with a pool.

I was up in DC when they were building the monument it was pretty neat to watch and a monument to these brave men and women was long over due.
 
2013-10-01 02:24:26 PM
Hope the vets stay around long enough to chase out copper thieves.
 
2013-10-01 02:25:01 PM
National monuments and parks are like interstate highways: we have the right to do whatever we want with them, and there are absolutely no expenses involved in their continuing upkeep and maintenance.
 
2013-10-01 02:25:31 PM

FreeBirdInTheHand: Lost Thought 00: Carousel Beast: You know, because no WW2 vets voted for Roosevelt.

Most WW2 vets were not old enough to vote at the time. Certainly any that are alive today were not allowed to vote. Voting age was 21 (higher in some states). That didn't change until Vietnam protests

The average age of a U. S. soldier in WW2 was 26. Older than Vietnam soldiers by about seven years.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8JlTIo--CQ">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=b8JlTIo--CQ

Ni-ni-nineteen.  Nineteen.
 
2013-10-01 02:25:56 PM

gunrunner: so If I understand this thread correctly...The Occupy movement was right...


No one minded Occupy until they decided they were going to live there.
 
2013-10-01 02:26:18 PM

PsiChick: strangeluck: Saw this little earlier, Hero tag well used subby.

F*ck the government shut down.

While the park should not have been shut down, you do not get to trespass because you're a veteran. The laws do apply. Yes, it sucks. Guess what? There's a fark-ton of federal workers getting furloughed, there's a fark-ton of private sector workers who will get the ripple effects of this...veterans are not special snowflakes, and while I'm sorry their trip got screwed up, trespassing was a childish temper tantrum, not the response of grown adults.


Y'know what?  If people had your kind of mindset 250 years ago, we'd be governed by Her Majesty the Queen today.

Actually, now that I think of it, there were people that had your kind of mindset 250 years ago.  They were called Loyalists, and they were frowned upon by many colonists.

/Laws are not sacrosanct, nor are they rigid.
//You want people to act like adults? Stop treating them like they were children.
 
2013-10-01 02:26:40 PM

2xcited: Shutting down the WWII Memorial is the government just being abunch of pansy assed drama queens.  There is nothing to open or close you just walk around the reflecting pool.  That's the government's problem in a nut shell, they are paying two people just to watch other people walk around a stone monument with a pool.


1. Vandals.
2. Basic clean-up
3. Liability

Think before you post, son.
 
2013-10-01 02:27:07 PM
gunrunner: so If I understand this thread correctly...The Occupy movement was right....and the vets were wrong..

being that nobody mentioned the Occupy movement in this thread except you.....no you dont understand this thread correctly..ellipses are another one of the Thing's you dont understand
 
2013-10-01 02:27:41 PM

Amos Quito: spidermilk: Amos Quito: OMG!

But is it right for them to leave it open and let every yahoo who is going to hike down with no water just go on in and die??!


Yes. Yes, it is. People used to know the world is dangerous and has no qualms about killing you. It's a lesson we need to be reminded of.

I'm more concerned about the idiots who would spread beer bottles all over and set the place on fire.

No, leave the parks open.

Let 'em shut down the NSA and the farking IRS.


The IRS office next to me is closed. But I suspect their workload for the year will not be altered because of the shutdown - quotas gotta get met.
 
2013-10-01 02:31:46 PM

poot_rootbeer: gunrunner: so If I understand this thread correctly...The Occupy movement was right....and the vets were wrong..

being that nobody mentioned the Occupy movement in this thread except you.....no you dont understand this thread correctly..ellipses are another one of the Thing's you dont understand


I'm just stating two events that have similar activities, and different public opinions. Apparently you don't understand capitalization if you want to get all grammar Nazi about it.
 
2013-10-01 02:34:03 PM

2xcited: There is nothing to open or close you just walk around the reflecting pool


And litter and tag it and drown in the pool and loiter and get drunk, vomit and sleep on it...

I know it's fun to pretend it's just like your backyard only public, but it's not. They don't just pay people to stand around it doing nothing, it's an attraction that draws people and people make messes and do dumb things. If there's nobody on staff to maintain it, it should be closed.
 
2013-10-01 02:35:44 PM
ATTICA!  ATTICA!   ATTICA!
 
2013-10-01 02:36:19 PM

IlGreven: PsiChick: strangeluck: Saw this little earlier, Hero tag well used subby.

F*ck the government shut down.

While the park should not have been shut down, you do not get to trespass because you're a veteran. The laws do apply. Yes, it sucks. Guess what? There's a fark-ton of federal workers getting furloughed, there's a fark-ton of private sector workers who will get the ripple effects of this...veterans are not special snowflakes, and while I'm sorry their trip got screwed up, trespassing was a childish temper tantrum, not the response of grown adults.

Y'know what?  If people had your kind of mindset 250 years ago, we'd be governed by Her Majesty the Queen today.

Actually, now that I think of it, there were people that had your kind of mindset 250 years ago.  They were called Loyalists, and they were frowned upon by many colonists.

/Laws are not sacrosanct, nor are they rigid.
//You want people to act like adults? Stop treating them like they were children.


Which is why I entirely approved of Occupy Wall Street and Wikileaks. I just differentiate between disobeying laws for good reasons and disobeying laws because otherwise it'll wreck your trip. Much as I sympathize with the veterans, you do not get to break the law unless there is a very important reason. 'But I drove all the way down here!' is not a very important reason.
 
2013-10-01 02:41:16 PM

WhoopAssWayne: The monuments and parks should be run by non-profits and volunteers anyway. They're too important to be left in the hands of the federal government.


What, and please be specific, are the government's failures and shortcomings in maintaining the national parks?
 
FNG [TotalFark]
2013-10-01 02:43:17 PM
Good for them. The shutdown is just more evidence of the division of today's America. DC memorials are one thing, but I can see how people getting in to national parks could be a big problem.

Stupid people will undoubtedly get lost, get hurt, or otherwise need help in the great outdoors. A bunch of heroes in a small area will be fine, and those who have any sense aren't going to disrespect them.
 
2013-10-01 02:44:17 PM

Carn: So the people who are mad about this are going to march a couple blocks down to the Capitol to go shiat on Ted Cruz' desk, right?


Great mental image. An angry mob of WWII vets storming the Capitol building and beating the congresscritters with their canes.

Or just barging into the House chambers and lounging around. "Hey, you shut down the Mall so we figured we'd come check this place out."

PR gold.
 
2013-10-01 02:47:09 PM
They're not letting people into the parks and monuments because there's no one to maintain them. If any of the people here crying "people just walk around it, whats the big deal" had ever had to work as a janitor and actually clean up after other people for a living, they'd know that people tend to make a goddamn mess of things without thinking about it. It might not be that bad after a day or even a week, but if this thing goes on for a month like the last round of similar asshatery, these places will start looking like a goddamn dump and then there will be no end to the "OMG THE WWII MONUMENT IS A GODDAMN DUMP WHY DID OBAMA LET PEOPLE DO THIS!!?!?!" headlines.

And furthermore, to the people who are saying "how is this political lol", if you bothered to read TFA you'd have seen the line "National Republican Congressional Committee is now using the veterans' reclamation of their memorial to add email addresses to their mailing list".
 
2013-10-01 02:47:13 PM
Federal government leech breaks the law to have his picture taken, all on the American taxpayers' dime.
 
2013-10-01 02:49:51 PM

fickenchucker: lockers: topcon: What's to "shut down?"  It's a little monument you can walk around.  It could exist for the next century(ies) without anyone touching it.

There is a public safety issue and the government is liable. They shut it down because to avoid liability. These people are tresspassing, but lucky for them there are no public safety people to stop them.

I'm calling bullshiat on that reason.  Shutting down that particular monument, and the others like them in true park settings, is just government rules with no thought behind them.  They're probably classified in the same bracket as the other ones that may need more oversight or attendants, such as the Washington Monument, without anyone thinking it's simply a static open area with rocks and plaques.

Shutting down simpler monuments and parks is just grandstanding, no matter what party is in office at the time.  Same for the White House tour.  Shutting those down is only sending the message the government is dysfunctional, again, across both parties.  Obama doesn't get points from anyone closing that symbol of public openness.


It is a legitimate reason, albeit stupid, and depressing that it is necessary, but legitimate.  If someone were to trip and fall and bust their head because some random person left a banana peel on the ground and there was no park service employee around to pick it up, the person with the busted head will sue the crap out of whoever is responsible for maintaining a safe environment at the monument.  Guess who is responsible for maintaining a safe environment at the monument.  Hint, they have deep pockets, people love to sue them, and it rhymes with "the overnment"
 
2013-10-01 02:52:08 PM

jasenj1: Carn: So the people who are mad about this are going to march a couple blocks down to the Capitol to go shiat on Ted Cruz' desk, right?

Great mental image. An angry mob of WWII vets storming the Capitol building and beating the congresscritters with their canes.

Or just barging into the House chambers and lounging around. "Hey, you shut down the Mall so we figured we'd come check this place out."

PR gold.


Occupy The House 2013.  Hell yeah. Go get em old dudes.
 
2013-10-01 02:55:02 PM
It's all fun and games until you have to pee but have nowhere to go.

Seriously. Americans are pigs. We are really good at trashing public spaces. They close the parks because there's no one there to clean up after you. And closing one of the parks means closing them all, so although it seems strange for the memorials to be shut down, the reasoning is much easier to picture at Grand Canyon NP, which averages over 11,000 vistors per day.
 
2013-10-01 02:55:25 PM

LesserEvil: Wow... it's like a reality distortion field has descended on the some of the more dogmatic liberal Farkers here today.

"Shutting down" the national parks probably cost more than running them over the course of several weeks, and wasn't dictated by congress, but by the executive branch. The simple, unvarnished truth is that no fences needed to be erected to prevent people from walking on public grounds, except for the executive branch making a big butthurt "I'm taking my ball and going home" statement about the shutdown.

The politics of the shutdown notwithstanding, fencing off public land is simply politics at its most dogmatic and idiotic. Siding with the National Parks department on this one is just as idiotic. Try unplugging your ears and face the truth - this is another example of government waste, and the sole intention is to punish the public for not being outraged and siding with the President in a political matter.

That the only reason anybody is even noticing the "shutdown" is because of the effects of government spending MORE money to artificially "shutdown" parks and web sites is very telling of how bloated and unnecessary our government has become.


The problem with this is that it assumes a short shutdown.  It assumes that everything will go back to normal in a week or two and the workers will go back and have to clean up a bit more than usual.

Now, that's probably going to be the case, but the executive branch can't and shouldn't plan for that.  If it's going to be closed for the next week it's probably fine to just leave it, but if the park is going to be closed for the next 2 years, then yes, at some point they're going to have to either block it off or start paying for someone to go check on it occasionally.
 
2013-10-01 02:56:00 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: lockers: There is a public safety issue and the government is liable. They shut it down because to avoid liability.

You can't sue the government.
Thanks for playing.


LULZ
 
2013-10-01 02:58:18 PM
Back in the 1980s when I was in grade school, I had a friend whose sister's cat was a miserable wretch... It would growl at everyone and just be a general howling and hissing drama queen if anyone but his sister came near it or tried to pet it (but it never would scratch or bite).

The height of its ridiculousness was how it would sometimes sit with its head behind a curtain, convinced that the curtain was an impregnable Barrier of Invisibility (cat logic, I guess -- it couldn't see you, so therefore you couldn't see it)... And if you were to touch the cat while it was doing this, it would howl much more furiously and high pitched, as if it was just completely and utterly outraged that you dared not acknowledge the privilege of invisibility that it was entitled to enjoy.

The outrage of some people in this thread at the WW2 veterans' refusal to acknowledge the supposed Shield of Impenetrability that was generated around the memorial by the "shutdown" reminds me of that cat.
 
2013-10-01 03:00:57 PM

ElwoodCuse: Tell me something. It's still "we the people", right?


i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-01 03:01:05 PM
The IRS is closed. Whoopee!
 
2013-10-01 03:04:41 PM

seanpg71: LesserEvil: Wow... it's like a reality distortion field has descended on the some of the more dogmatic liberal Farkers here today.

"Shutting down" the national parks probably cost more than running them over the course of several weeks, and wasn't dictated by congress, but by the executive branch. The simple, unvarnished truth is that no fences needed to be erected to prevent people from walking on public grounds, except for the executive branch making a big butthurt "I'm taking my ball and going home" statement about the shutdown.

The politics of the shutdown notwithstanding, fencing off public land is simply politics at its most dogmatic and idiotic. Siding with the National Parks department on this one is just as idiotic. Try unplugging your ears and face the truth - this is another example of government waste, and the sole intention is to punish the public for not being outraged and siding with the President in a political matter.

That the only reason anybody is even noticing the "shutdown" is because of the effects of government spending MORE money to artificially "shutdown" parks and web sites is very telling of how bloated and unnecessary our government has become.

The problem with this is that it assumes a short shutdown.  It assumes that everything will go back to normal in a week or two and the workers will go back and have to clean up a bit more than usual.

Now, that's probably going to be the case, but the executive branch can't and shouldn't plan for that.  If it's going to be closed for the next week it's probably fine to just leave it, but if the park is going to be closed for the next 2 years, then yes, at some point they're going to have to either block it off or start paying for someone to go check on it occasionally.


It doesn't cost them a dime more to hold off fencing in public land for a couple of weeks, and saves them money if the shutdown is resolved shortly.
 
2013-10-01 03:07:07 PM

hiker9999: valar_morghulis: According to Stars and Stripes reporter Leo Shane, who took many of the pictures at the scene, Rep. Steve King (R-IA)   while the barriers were being moved to allow the veterans access.

Good to know laws only apply to little people and LIBS LIBS LIBS

Be a shame hilarious if Steve King got tazed and arrested.


FTFY.

/Especially if it went on Youtube.
 
2013-10-01 03:08:13 PM

hiker9999: valar_morghulis: According to Stars and Stripes reporter Leo Shane, who took many of the pictures at the scene, Rep. Steve King (R-IA)   while the barriers were being moved to allow the veterans access.

Good to know laws only apply to little people and LIBS LIBS LIBS

Be a shame if Steve King got tazed and arrested.

shot.

FTFY
 
2013-10-01 03:10:50 PM

Lord_Baull: Is it me, or does putting barricades in front of a public area just because there's no one to pick up trash around the area sound really stupid?


Don't forget the government employees who were guarding the barricades.  It looks to me like the government was trying to make the shutdown as inconvenient as possible, even in a situation where there was no need.

Also, old vets are the last people who would litter around this memorial.  In fact, they'd probably beat you with their walker if you dropped garbage in front of them.
 
2013-10-01 03:11:02 PM

WhoopAssWayne: The monuments and parks should be run by non-profits and volunteers anyway. They're too important to be left in the hands of the federal government.


Funny thing. If you go to the national parks in DC and Virginia you will indeed find upstanding people in yellow shirts volunteering their time to help.

A public space shouldn't just close if their is no one to pickup trash. Let it get farked up. The tourist could use some shaming at the mess they leave around the mall where you find the food trucks.

On the plus side, no food trucks trashing the mall.
 
2013-10-01 03:12:39 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: lockers: There is a public safety issue and the government is liable. They shut it down because to avoid liability.

You can't sue the government.
Thanks for playing.


Well you can sue the federal government but you have to ask very nicely and wait a decade or more for ban answer.
 
2013-10-01 03:13:42 PM
The World War II Memorial was closed at some point last year to clean out some fungus. My brother drove all the way up here from Tennessee and the fountains were closed!
 
2013-10-01 03:17:51 PM

ninotchka: The World War II Memorial was closed at some point last year to clean out some fungus. My brother drove all the way up here from Tennessee and the fountains were closed!


Technically it has been partially closed for a while. There is a problem with the reflecting pool still and it has effected the WW2 monument and closed the back fountain.
 
2013-10-01 03:18:37 PM

Walker: More National Park workers working when apparently the government has run out of money. NPS rangers? Stay home. Guys who put up barricades? GET DOWN HERE ASAP WITH ALL YOUR FRIENDS!
[www.wusa9.com image 640x360]

Bring out the heavy machinery! Gotta stop them 'muricans from visiting here. We're broke you know. Hey, are we getting OT for this?
[www.wusa9.com image 640x360]

Even the Normandy American cemetery in France has been shut down! I see you people who snuck in!
[www.wusa9.com image 640x360]


"I gots a sign and authora-tie. Ain't nobody gettin in here"
[www.wusa9.com image 640x360]


OK, yeah...the shutdown is not a "pencils down at midnight" sort of thing.  Agencies have shutdown plans, and they enact them.  I would not be surprised if money for enacting the shutdown plans are part of last year's budget.  So, the NPS spends a few bucks as part of their pre-approved shutdown plan to send some guys out to put up barricades and little "we're closed" signs.  Took, what, most of a morning?  Probably less than half a day's worth of wages for what the park rangers would have cost.  Really not that ironic, or stupid, or what-have-you at all.
 
2013-10-01 03:20:14 PM

cuzsis: The reason the government closes things like parks, museums and other seemingly random stuff, is they don't want the public to know how well we'd get along without all the extra crap they throw on us.

 You and I know perfectly well that we could get boy scouts or non-profits to run these things and be a helluva lot more efficient than what we currently pay for. But then a whole lot of folks in gov't who've found themselves a nice well paid cushy positions would be suddenly out of a job.

 And neither party is okay with reducing the amount of government jobs available, because once we start with parks and museums, things like EPA, FEMA, ATF and other bloated agencies are next. Once we're done with streamlining those guys, we suddenly realize we're paying way too much for other things, including our current representatives for the actual work they do. And we start cutting back on that to something more reasonable (ie: no forever pay and benefits... go get a real job when you're done ect.)

 They know it's a slippery slope, so they cling to every meaningless job they can in order to prevent the American people from gaining momentum...


Good lord, you're an idiot.

Gee, who might benefit from shutting down all the oversight agencies that were created in response to rampant wrongdoing prior to their existence?  The very same corporate interests who own most of the news outlets, you say? Who fund the party of gridlock and corporate largesse? Who lobby for even MORE privileges and tax breaks while raking in record profits and generating big bonuses for their leadership?

Most of those agencies are underfunded and under resourced, and many are deliberately tied up by politically motivated witch-hunts whose sole purpose is to keep the feds from sniffing around in official corruption.
 
2013-10-01 03:20:15 PM

YodaBlues: The Muthaship: Lord_Baull: Is it me, or does putting barricades in front of a public area just because there's no one to pick up trash around the area sound really stupid?

It is, but it aids the left's message.

[i.imgur.com image 500x273]


That is a pretty damn epic eyeroll.
 
2013-10-01 03:26:05 PM
I like the blaming of the parties but the real place the blame belongs as at your own feet.

You keep putting the same assholes in office year after year based on or you might "lose".
 
2013-10-01 03:27:51 PM

tagkc: [350f2h3jkir93bsly2c4imnks5.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com image 650x650]

Hey look!  The RNCC is even blaming the closure on the Democrats.



i42.tinypic.com
i39.tinypic.com
 
2013-10-01 03:31:54 PM

Intrepid00: I like the blaming of the parties but the real place the blame belongs as at your own feet.

You keep putting the same assholes in office year after year based on or you might "lose".


There is only one party responsible here and only one group of voters who should be shooting themselves in the face for electing them.
 
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