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(BBC)   UN urges Spain to investigate Franco-era crimes in spite of 1977 pardon. In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 47
    More: Interesting, Spain, Government of Spain, transition to democracy, legal principles, Augusto Pinochet, Human Rights Council, military dictatorship, amnesty law  
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1330 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Oct 2013 at 1:54 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



47 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-01 01:56:42 PM
Isn't the Franco-inspired right wing in power right now?.
 
2013-10-01 02:00:09 PM
No body expected that!
 
2013-10-01 02:01:16 PM
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead

So is Mr Ed. Or as he became known, Mr Dead.
 
2013-10-01 02:03:24 PM
www.dougquick.com
 
2013-10-01 02:04:35 PM
Sure, they got no money, why not?
 
2013-10-01 02:04:37 PM
It would be a little bit more persuasive if we actually investigated the crimes of our own previous administrations first, you know.
 
2013-10-01 02:06:24 PM
Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.

They showed numerous shots of people shutting their doors or running away from him.

The fact that the man resembled a toothless scarecrow with rickets might have had something to do with the reactions. I guess we never grow old in our mind's eye.
 
2013-10-01 02:10:26 PM
Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm.

No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.
 
2013-10-01 02:10:59 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.


I read about them, some also were investigated during the Cold War for fear they might be commies, right?.
 
2013-10-01 02:11:08 PM

CheapEngineer: [www.dougquick.com image 320x240]


And if you're hard of hearing...

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-10-01 02:12:21 PM

PunGent: Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm.

No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.


I'm more comfortable w/ mass-murders than ex post facto laws.
 
2013-10-01 02:12:32 PM

PunGent: Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm.

No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.


It seemed to work in Argentina.
 
2013-10-01 02:13:55 PM

This text is now purple: PunGent: Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm.

No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.

I'm more comfortable w/ mass-murders than ex post facto laws.


This.
 
jvl
2013-10-01 02:19:38 PM
We're worrying about Franco's crimes when Spain has managed to put it behind them? So let's see, we have Tiananmen Square, the Soviet Gulags, North Korea, Myanmar, Cuba, Armenia (the recent one), a bunch of genocide attempts in Africa, Palestinian kidnappings of soldiers, Iranian state-sponsered terrorism, Pakistani state-sponsered terrorism against India, East Timor, Tibet....

I can only assume the UN lost the first three pages of the list, and thought this item was first on the list.
 
jvl
2013-10-01 02:21:48 PM

PunGent: Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm. No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.


Damn that Nelson Mandela and his "amnesty for all" program in South Africa! Damn him to heck!
 
2013-10-01 02:24:52 PM
img2.timeinc.net

Franco, you say?
 
2013-10-01 02:28:27 PM
You know what else was a Franco crime? "Oz the Great and Powerful" am I right?

/low hanging fruit
//obvious
///sorry
 
2013-10-01 02:32:29 PM
Does it come with the inability to wink as well?
 
2013-10-01 02:36:36 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com

I KNEW that guy was bad news...
 
2013-10-01 02:42:27 PM
Is that the way the UN says go take a hike?
 
2013-10-01 02:51:27 PM
awesomegifs.com
 
2013-10-01 02:54:49 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.

They showed numerous shots of people shutting their doors or running away from him.

The fact that the man resembled a toothless scarecrow with rickets might have had something to do with the reactions. I guess we never grow old in our mind's eye.


You know that the International Brigades were set up by the Comintern, don't you?  Also, vetted by the NKVD.  No!  Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!  This is kind of well known now.  They should have checked out whether this "hero" committed any war crimes.  POS, one and all.
 
2013-10-01 02:56:14 PM

jvl: PunGent: Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm. No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.

Damn that Nelson Mandela and his "amnesty for all" program in South Africa! Damn him to heck!


South Africa had a truth and reconciliation commission. Spain just swept everything under the carpet. Sometimes it isn't about throwing old men in jail for following their orders, sometimes it's about having them come forward to testify on what they were ordered to do and where the bodies are buried.
 
2013-10-01 03:05:20 PM

zimbomba63: TheShavingofOccam123: Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.

They showed numerous shots of people shutting their doors or running away from him.

The fact that the man resembled a toothless scarecrow with rickets might have had something to do with the reactions. I guess we never grow old in our mind's eye.

You know that the International Brigades were set up by the Comintern, don't you?  Also, vetted by the NKVD.  No!  Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!  This is kind of well known now.  They should have checked out whether this "hero" committed any war crimes.  POS, one and all.


Most members of the International Brigades were idealistic communists. They were fighting alongside Spanish republicans and Russian "volunteers" in defense of a duly elected government. On the other side the Spanish Nationalists were fascists who were fighting alongside Italian fascists and German Nazis in order to establish a military dictatorship which would end-up lasting for forty years. Fratricidal wars are never very clean, but if you want to bring up the subject of war crimes please don't leave out Guernica.
 
2013-10-01 03:11:30 PM
from the archives of losenet

Socialists are the Undead. Whereas any other group of political hacks would have given up the ghost after such a complete repudiation, socialists continue to roam the earth, seeking to devour whom they may.

In addition to a morbid fear of crucifixes, socialists are loathe to see groups of villagers carrying not torches, but rather guns. Instead of bats, socialists assume the form of Greens when pursued. Sunlight is a grave imagined danger, due to the ozone depletion myths shared by most. While Holy Water has no caustic effect, many socialists avoid even bath water, just to be sure. Garlic loses its repugnance only if it is organic. When a socialist peers into a mirror, he does see a reflection, but he sadly fantasises that it is the handsome face of Che, not the pasty mug of himself.

Mortal injuries do not faze them; It takes a wooden stake.

Behold the wooden stake of Globalism. If all the people of thedeveloping nations get their first taste of modern life literally by sipping a can of Coke, the now stinking corpse of the world revolution is buried.

Global warming is nothing but a wooden-stake-proof-vest. By placing unbelievably severe restrictions on a successful capitalist country, socialists hope (in vain, thankyouverymuchgeorge©) to throw a curve to anyone who might have a few extra bucks profit to put into struggling places that need investment far more than they need bloodsucking ideologies.


thankyouverymuchgeorge© Copyright© 2001 Le Trôle
You are free to use this term as you wish, just long as you acknowledge the fact that in the Oval Office during George's watch, the American people come first, not some intern floozy with a smokable dildo.
 
2013-10-01 03:12:17 PM

zimbomba63: TheShavingofOccam123: Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.

They showed numerous shots of people shutting their doors or running away from him.

The fact that the man resembled a toothless scarecrow with rickets might have had something to do with the reactions. I guess we never grow old in our mind's eye.

You know that the International Brigades were set up by the Comintern, don't you?  Also, vetted by the NKVD.  No!  Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!  This is kind of well known now.  They should have checked out whether this "hero" committed any war crimes.  POS, one and all.


Oh fark off you farking fascist.
 
2013-10-01 03:14:32 PM
Didn't they just roast him on comedy central?
 
2013-10-01 03:15:17 PM
I heard most of the crimes Franco committed were cuz he was pissed off about dudes jizzing on his Penthouse magazines.....
 
2013-10-01 03:22:30 PM

SpdrJay: I heard most of the crimes Franco committed were cuz he was pissed off about dudes jizzing on his Penthouse magazines.....


That was your father

// oh wait, that was my father
 
2013-10-01 03:47:32 PM

The Evil Home Brewer: PunGent: Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm.

No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.

It seemed to work in Argentina.


And Russia.
 
2013-10-01 03:56:31 PM

This text is now purple: PunGent: Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm.

No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.

I'm more comfortable w/ mass-murders than ex post facto laws.


Ex post facto laws...like amnesty statutes?
 
2013-10-01 03:58:36 PM

CygnusDarius: Isn't the Franco-inspired right wing in power right now?.


Yeah, but its sooooooo gooooood.
 
2013-10-01 03:59:54 PM

Keeve: CheapEngineer: [www.dougquick.com image 320x240]

And if you're hard of hearing...

[encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 188x125]


Just realized my first image came from DougQuick.com (weatherman at a station I used to work at, nice guy with a TV history website)

\thanks GIS
 
2013-10-01 04:07:11 PM
And Sergio Arragones is still alive. So, it's win-win.
 
jvl
2013-10-01 04:24:22 PM

PunGent: Ex post facto laws...like amnesty statutes?


No. You clearly don't understand what "Ex Post Facto Laws" are.
 
2013-10-01 04:36:47 PM

FarkedOver: zimbomba63: TheShavingofOccam123: Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.

They showed numerous shots of people shutting their doors or running away from him.

The fact that the man resembled a toothless scarecrow with rickets might have had something to do with the reactions. I guess we never grow old in our mind's eye.

You know that the International Brigades were set up by the Comintern, don't you?  Also, vetted by the NKVD.  No!  Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!  This is kind of well known now.  They should have checked out whether this "hero" committed any war crimes.  POS, one and all.

Oh fark off you farking fascist.


From your reply, I can see you are truly an intellectual.  With that being established, point out which of my statements are wrong and why.
 
2013-10-01 05:10:02 PM

capt.hollister: zimbomba63: TheShavingofOccam123: Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.

They showed numerous shots of people shutting their doors or running away from him.

The fact that the man resembled a toothless scarecrow with rickets might have had something to do with the reactions. I guess we never grow old in our mind's eye.

You know that the International Brigades were set up by the Comintern, don't you?  Also, vetted by the NKVD.  No!  Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!  This is kind of well known now.  They should have checked out whether this "hero" committed any war crimes.  POS, one and all.

Most members of the International Brigades were idealistic communists. They were fighting alongside Spanish republicans and Russian "volunteers" in defense of a duly elected government. On the other side the Spanish Nationalists were fascists who were fighting alongside Italian fascists and German Nazis in order to establish a military dictatorship which would end-up lasting for forty years. Fratricidal wars are never very clean, but if you want to bring up the subject of war crimes please don't leave out Guernica.


OK, and most of the Bolsheviks, in 1917, were idealistic communists, but, they didn't have a problem with the liquidation of "counter-revolutionary factions", i.e. landlords, shop owners, industrialists, etc., once they were in power.  This is why I have read, with pleasure, about Stalin's extermination of the Old Bolsheviks.  I'm sure, they never expected that things would end, with them being on the other side of the gun.


Nope, I won't leave out Guernica, as I see it, was a crime.  To me, this was a war of scum vs. scum, I just fail to see who the heroes were.
 
2013-10-01 05:33:41 PM

zimbomba63: capt.hollister: zimbomba63: TheShavingofOccam123: Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.

They showed numerous shots of people shutting their doors or running away from him.

The fact that the man resembled a toothless scarecrow with rickets might have had something to do with the reactions. I guess we never grow old in our mind's eye.

You know that the International Brigades were set up by the Comintern, don't you?  Also, vetted by the NKVD.  No!  Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!  This is kind of well known now.  They should have checked out whether this "hero" committed any war crimes.  POS, one and all.

Most members of the International Brigades were idealistic communists. They were fighting alongside Spanish republicans and Russian "volunteers" in defense of a duly elected government. On the other side the Spanish Nationalists were fascists who were fighting alongside Italian fascists and German Nazis in order to establish a military dictatorship which would end-up lasting for forty years. Fratricidal wars are never very clean, but if you want to bring up the subject of war crimes please don't leave out Guernica.

OK, and most of the Bolsheviks, in 1917, were idealistic communists, but, they didn't have a problem with the liquidation of "counter-revolutionary factions", i.e. landlords, shop owners, industrialists, etc., once they were in power.  This is why I have read, with pleasure, about Stalin's extermination of the Old Bolsheviks.  I'm sure, they never expected that things would end, with them being on the other side of the gun.


Nope, I won't leave out Guernica, as I see it, was a crime.  To me, this was a war of scum vs. scum, I just fail to see who the heroes were.


If you haven't already read it, you might enjoy "Stalin: the Court of the Red Tsar" by Simon Sebag Montefiore. A masterful, and encyclopedic look at Stalin and his accomplices - many of them as crazy and bloodthirsty as Goebbels & Himmler.
 
2013-10-01 05:47:08 PM

zimbomba63: I can see you are truly an intellectual. With that being established, point out which of my statements are wrong and why.


The part about being "truly an intellectual". Because this if Fark, that's why.
 
2013-10-01 06:02:14 PM

Danger Avoid Death: zimbomba63: I can see you are truly an intellectual. With that being established, point out which of my statements are wrong and why.

The part about being "truly an intellectual". Because this if Fark, that's why.


OK, I bow to your expertise in the matter, you got me on that one.
 
2013-10-01 06:48:14 PM

Fusilier: zimbomba63: capt.hollister: zimbomba63: TheShavingofOccam123: Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.

They showed numerous shots of people shutting their doors or running away from him.

The fact that the man resembled a toothless scarecrow with rickets might have had something to do with the reactions. I guess we never grow old in our mind's eye.

You know that the International Brigades were set up by the Comintern, don't you?  Also, vetted by the NKVD.  No!  Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!  This is kind of well known now.  They should have checked out whether this "hero" committed any war crimes.  POS, one and all.

Most members of the International Brigades were idealistic communists. They were fighting alongside Spanish republicans and Russian "volunteers" in defense of a duly elected government. On the other side the Spanish Nationalists were fascists who were fighting alongside Italian fascists and German Nazis in order to establish a military dictatorship which would end-up lasting for forty years. Fratricidal wars are never very clean, but if you want to bring up the subject of war crimes please don't leave out Guernica.

OK, and most of the Bolsheviks, in 1917, were idealistic communists, but, they didn't have a problem with the liquidation of "counter-revolutionary factions", i.e. landlords, shop owners, industrialists, etc., once they were in power.  This is why I have read, with pleasure, about Stalin's extermination of the Old Bolsheviks.  I'm sure, they never expected that things would end, with them being on the other side of the gun.


Nope, I won't leave out Guernica, as I see it, was a crime.  To me, this was a war of scum vs. scum, I just fail to see who the heroes were.

If you haven't already read it, you might enjoy "Stalin: the Court of the Red Tsar" by Simon Sebag Montefio ...


I know of it, but, I haven't read that one, yet.  I've always been interested in the Russian Revolution, the run-up to WW II, Hitler and Stalin, and have read extensively on the subjects.

Goebbels and Himmler could have opted out and survived, I think, they were just more than ready to do anything to accrue power.  I don't think you had the option to say no to Stalin, when you saw those who merely questioned one of his ideas, purged, sent to the gulag and never seen again.
 
2013-10-01 09:34:53 PM

jvl: PunGent: Ex post facto laws...like amnesty statutes?

No. You clearly don't understand what "Ex Post Facto Laws" are.


Might want a refund on that GED in law you got there:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

Note it SPECIFICALLY INCLUDES AMNESTY.
 
2013-10-01 09:40:17 PM
GOOD NIGHT AND HAVE A PLEASANT TO-MOR-ROW.
 
2013-10-01 11:33:29 PM

PunGent: Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm.

No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.



If you internationally make it impossible for mass-murderers to have peaceful retirement after giving up the power, they will never voluntarily give up the power. Which will result in prolongation of various conflicts and genocides and other "fun" activities. If you can't trust the amnesty laws, which usually are part of the peace process by the way, the dictators will simply make sure to have the other forms of protection: Power, groomed successors and cadres who know they're in same boat as the dictator (and his successor) if the old regime falls.

Which do you think is worse: Continued dictatorship and mass murder or peaceful retirement for few handfuls of bad old men?

It's not right. It's not just. It's realpolitik.
 
2013-10-02 12:48:52 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-02 08:40:13 AM

MirrorField: PunGent: Revoke the amnesty law, and make the bastards squirm.

No reason mass-murderers should have a peaceful retirement.


If you internationally make it impossible for mass-murderers to have peaceful retirement after giving up the power, they will never voluntarily give up the power. Which will result in prolongation of various conflicts and genocides and other "fun" activities. If you can't trust the amnesty laws, which usually are part of the peace process by the way, the dictators will simply make sure to have the other forms of protection: Power, groomed successors and cadres who know they're in same boat as the dictator (and his successor) if the old regime falls.

Which do you think is worse: Continued dictatorship and mass murder or peaceful retirement for few handfuls of bad old men?

It's not right. It's not just. It's realpolitik.


I understand your point.

However, it's one thing for outsiders to cut a deal to prevent ongoing butchery.

It's quite another for murdering dictators and their cronies to give THEMSELVES a get-out-of-jail-free card for past crimes.

(Oh, and in the case of Spain, to be clear...I don't give Franco's OPPONENTS a free pass, either...not all those mass graves were made by the fascists, just most of them.)
 
2013-10-02 08:44:19 AM

zimbomba63: Fusilier: zimbomba63: capt.hollister: zimbomba63: TheShavingofOccam123: Sixty Minutes did a segment on an American who fought in an International Brigade during the Spanish Civil War. The veteran complained that even today people wouldn't talk to him or acknowledge what he did.

They showed numerous shots of people shutting their doors or running away from him.

The fact that the man resembled a toothless scarecrow with rickets might have had something to do with the reactions. I guess we never grow old in our mind's eye.

You know that the International Brigades were set up by the Comintern, don't you?  Also, vetted by the NKVD.  No!  Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!  This is kind of well known now.  They should have checked out whether this "hero" committed any war crimes.  POS, one and all.

Most members of the International Brigades were idealistic communists. They were fighting alongside Spanish republicans and Russian "volunteers" in defense of a duly elected government. On the other side the Spanish Nationalists were fascists who were fighting alongside Italian fascists and German Nazis in order to establish a military dictatorship which would end-up lasting for forty years. Fratricidal wars are never very clean, but if you want to bring up the subject of war crimes please don't leave out Guernica.

OK, and most of the Bolsheviks, in 1917, were idealistic communists, but, they didn't have a problem with the liquidation of "counter-revolutionary factions", i.e. landlords, shop owners, industrialists, etc., once they were in power.  This is why I have read, with pleasure, about Stalin's extermination of the Old Bolsheviks.  I'm sure, they never expected that things would end, with them being on the other side of the gun.


Nope, I won't leave out Guernica, as I see it, was a crime.  To me, this was a war of scum vs. scum, I just fail to see who the heroes were.

If you haven't already read it, you might enjoy "Stalin: the Court of the Red Tsar" by Simon Seba ...


I highly recommend "The Lords of Finance" for anyone interested in the WWI - WWII period; it covers the central banks and bankers of France, Britain, the US, and Germany.  Sounds dry, but it's VERY well-written.

Gives a lot more depth of understanding than the usual "crippling Treaty of Versailles debt led to Weimar inflation led to Hitler" histories do...the reality was a bit more complicated than that.

It should also be a must-read for anyone who thinks we should go back on the gold standard :)
 
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