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(Uproxx)   The second trailer for The Hobbit: The Desolation Of Smaug brings the heat, specifically a fire-breathing dragon   (uproxx.com) divider line 105
    More: Cool, The Hobbit, Smaug, previews, dragons  
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4091 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 01 Oct 2013 at 12:49 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-01 12:55:35 PM
Uh..no...no good shot of the dragon in these preview.

/not that that's a bad thing
 
2013-10-01 12:58:24 PM
Neat.
 
2013-10-01 12:58:51 PM
In death, a member of Project Mayhem has a name.

His name is Bilbo.
 
2013-10-01 01:00:52 PM
Over it.
 
2013-10-01 01:04:10 PM
Nice.. though those video links that don't allow for full screen are annoying.

Also, very little recycled from the last trailer.
 
2013-10-01 01:04:29 PM
The best thing Jackson did with LOTR was removing all the damn singing and slow, mostly irrelevant side-plots.

The worst thing Jackson did with The Hobbit was keeping the damn singing and adding in irrelevant side-plots that weren't even there in the book just to get it padded out to a trilogy.

My wife nearly walked out of the cinema when at the beginning it looked like The Hobbit was going to be a musical.
 
2013-10-01 01:08:46 PM

Lord Dimwit: The best thing Jackson did with LOTR was removing all the damn singing and slow, mostly irrelevant side-plots.

The worst thing Jackson did with The Hobbit was keeping the damn singing and adding in irrelevant side-plots that weren't even there in the book just to get it padded out to a trilogy.

My wife nearly walked out of the cinema when at the beginning it looked like The Hobbit was going to be a musical.


What, 'That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates' is original material, and hardly something to object to.

I don't think they kept in any other songs.
 
2013-10-01 01:09:31 PM
The ridiculous over-saturation in the Hobbit has permanently scorched my vision. I'm passing on this one.
 
2013-10-01 01:13:38 PM
So much for the brilliant sneaky barrel escape, leaving the Elves befuddled.

Now it looks like they just brawl their way out and go on a wild adventure ride in open barrels that never tip over.

Lame.
 
2013-10-01 01:13:46 PM

Lord Dimwit: The best thing Jackson did with LOTR was removing all the damn singing and slow, mostly irrelevant side-plots.

The worst thing Jackson did with The Hobbit was keeping the damn singing and adding in irrelevant side-plots that weren't even there in the book just to get it padded out to a trilogy.


THIS.  I had no problem with two movies, but once it became three you just knew a bunch of extra and completely unnecessary crap was going to get shoveled in.  We don't need an hour of "Sauron is coming" or reassuring all the ladies that Legolas isn't gay.
 
2013-10-01 01:16:43 PM
Still cracks me up they're doing this as three movies.  Up next:  A Green Eggs and Ham decalogue.
 
2013-10-01 01:16:49 PM
Ugh, The Hobbit is NOT Lord of the Rings. Really saddens me the direction they took with this whole thing. The first was so terrible.

I'll still see it though, honestly just for the HFR.

Also, how can a giant spider look more realistic from a 2002 movie than one from a 2013 movie??
 
2013-10-01 01:19:32 PM
If Hollywood wants to make a Tolkein romance, there's Beren and Luthien. You don't have to make one up.

Also, over the past decade it feels like the prosthetic ears they're using for the elves keep on getting cornier. Look at those props on Evangeline Lilly.

/props
//and Martin Freeman is awesome
 
2013-10-01 01:21:13 PM
Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.
 
2013-10-01 01:21:14 PM
Cumberbatch sounds pretty wicked and I love Martin Freeman. I'm going to see it.
 
2013-10-01 01:21:31 PM

sure haven't: I'll still see it though, honestly just for the HFR.


You'll see it for the High Frame Rate? I saw the first one twice, first at 24 FPS and then at 48 FPS. I didn't notice any significant difference.
 
2013-10-01 01:26:05 PM

Lord Dimwit: The best thing Jackson did with LOTR was removing all the damn singing and slow, mostly irrelevant side-plots.

The worst thing Jackson did with The Hobbit was keeping the damn singing and adding in irrelevant side-plots that weren't even there in the book just to get it padded out to a trilogy.

My wife nearly walked out of the cinema when at the beginning it looked like The Hobbit was going to be a musical.


"That's what Lord Dimwit hates."
 
2013-10-01 01:30:19 PM
They could make it into five three hour movies, with them just wandering around Middle Earth for an hour or so in each one, and I'd be happy.
 
2013-10-01 01:41:47 PM

eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.


That's not what people are complaining about for the most part.  That's alluded to enough in the Hobbit that most people familiar with the book will understand.  It's the romance with an elf character that Jackson made up, and the changing of a lot of other scenes, that is pissing people off.  The barrel ride turning from a clever escape into just a fight sequence?  Thranduil offering to help the dwarfs?  That's so far off from what happens in the book that it makes me wonder if Jackson ever read it to begin with.

Smaug sounds cool, but there's been a few leaks about his appearance and it doesn't match the JRR Tolkien illustrations and that disappoints me.  Freeman is good with doing a lot with shiat, but nothing can really help this stench.  I'll probably rent it, but there's no way I'm sitting in a theater for three hours for a Jackson movie ever again.
 
2013-10-01 01:45:09 PM
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-10-01 01:45:39 PM

sure haven't: Ugh, The Hobbit is NOT Lord of the Rings. Really saddens me the direction they took with this whole thing. The first was so terrible.

I'll still see it though, honestly just for the HFR.

Also, how can a giant spider look more realistic from a 2002 movie than one from a 2013 movie??


I really enjoyed the first 20 minutes of so of the Hobbit. After that, it became a disjointed mess.  Agreed.  Two movies was ok, but three is just garbage. He has gone full George Lucas.
 
2013-10-01 01:51:24 PM

Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.

That's not what people are complaining about for the most part.  That's alluded to enough in the Hobbit that most people familiar with the book will understand.  It's the romance with an elf character that Jackson made up, and the changing of a lot of other scenes, that is pissing people off.  The barrel ride turning from a clever escape into just a fight sequence?  Thranduil offering to help the dwarfs?  That's so far off from what happens in the book that it makes me wonder if Jackson ever read it to begin with.

Smaug sounds cool, but there's been a few leaks about his appearance and it doesn't match the JRR Tolkien illustrations and that disappoints me.  Freeman is good with doing a lot with shiat, but nothing can really help this stench.  I'll probably rent it, but there's no way I'm sitting in a theater for three hours for a Jackson movie ever again.


I assume Peter Jackson is throwing in the stuff with Tauriel so he can have a token female warrior. I'm not thrilled with it but I guess it could be worse.

I'm going to hold my criticism on stuff like Thranduil offering to help the dwarfs until I see the film. It could be that it's not as it seems from the trailer, who knows.
 
2013-10-01 02:02:28 PM

eeyore102: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.

That's not what people are complaining about for the most part.  That's alluded to enough in the Hobbit that most people familiar with the book will understand.  It's the romance with an elf character that Jackson made up, and the changing of a lot of other scenes, that is pissing people off.  The barrel ride turning from a clever escape into just a fight sequence?  Thranduil offering to help the dwarfs?  That's so far off from what happens in the book that it makes me wonder if Jackson ever read it to begin with.

Smaug sounds cool, but there's been a few leaks about his appearance and it doesn't match the JRR Tolkien illustrations and that disappoints me.  Freeman is good with doing a lot with shiat, but nothing can really help this stench.  I'll probably rent it, but there's no way I'm sitting in a theater for three hours for a Jackson movie ever again.

I assume Peter Jackson is throwing in the stuff with Tauriel so he can have a token female warrior. I'm not thrilled with it but I guess it could be worse.

I'm going to hold my criticism on stuff like Thranduil offering to help the dwarfs until I see the film. It could be that it's not as it seems from the trailer, who knows.


I just hope Thrandruil sounds like McBain.
 
2013-10-01 02:03:08 PM

Alphax: Lord Dimwit: The best thing Jackson did with LOTR was removing all the damn singing and slow, mostly irrelevant side-plots.

The worst thing Jackson did with The Hobbit was keeping the damn singing and adding in irrelevant side-plots that weren't even there in the book just to get it padded out to a trilogy.

My wife nearly walked out of the cinema when at the beginning it looked like The Hobbit was going to be a musical.

What, 'That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates' is original material, and hardly something to object to.

I don't think they kept in any other songs.


This song was pretty obviously pandering to a modern audience.
 
2013-10-01 02:06:29 PM
Enjoyed the first one, looking forward to this one.
 
2013-10-01 02:09:12 PM

Fano: I just hope Thrandruil sounds like McBain.


I hope he sounds like McGarnagle's boss.

"Well, Thorin, Galiondil is dead! They slit his throat from ear to ear!"

"Hey, I'm tryin' to eat lunch here!"
 
2013-10-01 02:10:50 PM
Dear Hollywood, keep the quality fantasy films coming...


/ps...although you can do other authors/worlds too.
 
2013-10-01 02:12:46 PM

eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.


So, putting in the material that was mentioned in the book but never written by Tolkien is okay, and cutting out the entire final chapter of Return of the King is also okay? The only chapter that has any symbolism in the series whatsoever as the Scouring of the Shire was Tolkien's lament for the loss of the green and pleasant England of his youth to the forces of industrialization?

I'm just saying that the Lord of the Rings movies got less and less about Tolkien's books in the second and third films and more and more about Legolas being a nimble bastard and Peter Jackson saying 'Hey! Look what we can do with computers!'
 
2013-10-01 02:13:37 PM

Alphax: Lord Dimwit: The best thing Jackson did with LOTR was removing all the damn singing and slow, mostly irrelevant side-plots.

The worst thing Jackson did with The Hobbit was keeping the damn singing and adding in irrelevant side-plots that weren't even there in the book just to get it padded out to a trilogy.

My wife nearly walked out of the cinema when at the beginning it looked like The Hobbit was going to be a musical.

What, 'That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates' is original material, and hardly something to object to.

I don't think they kept in any other songs.


The Dwarves sang the Lonely Mountain song, but I think that's it.
 
2013-10-01 02:14:14 PM

rogue49: Dear Hollywood, keep the quality fantasy films coming...


/ps...although you can do other authors/worlds too.


THEY HAVE!
 
2013-10-01 02:14:25 PM

sprawl15: Alphax: Lord Dimwit: The best thing Jackson did with LOTR was removing all the damn singing and slow, mostly irrelevant side-plots.

The worst thing Jackson did with The Hobbit was keeping the damn singing and adding in irrelevant side-plots that weren't even there in the book just to get it padded out to a trilogy.

My wife nearly walked out of the cinema when at the beginning it looked like The Hobbit was going to be a musical.

What, 'That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates' is original material, and hardly something to object to.

I don't think they kept in any other songs.

This song was pretty obviously pandering to a modern audience.


Ohhhh.. man.   I'm not sure if that's hilarious or painful.. guess it's some of each.
 
2013-10-01 02:15:11 PM

Seth'n'Spectrum: If Hollywood wants to make a Tolkein romance, there's Beren and Luthien. You don't have to make one up.


Don't forget that classic tale, Aldarion and Erendis: The Mariner's Wife!

/ugh...so...awful.
 
2013-10-01 02:16:07 PM
I'm seeing this solely to hear Cumberbatch's voice!
 
2013-10-01 02:21:50 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: Alphax: Lord Dimwit: The best thing Jackson did with LOTR was removing all the damn singing and slow, mostly irrelevant side-plots.

The worst thing Jackson did with The Hobbit was keeping the damn singing and adding in irrelevant side-plots that weren't even there in the book just to get it padded out to a trilogy.

My wife nearly walked out of the cinema when at the beginning it looked like The Hobbit was going to be a musical.

What, 'That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates' is original material, and hardly something to object to.

I don't think they kept in any other songs.

The Dwarves sang the Lonely Mountain song, but I think that's it.


down down to goblin town and 15 birds?
 
2013-10-01 02:23:43 PM
I don't know about you, but I'm holding out for the Extended Versions of the Hobbit movies.
 
2013-10-01 02:23:58 PM

eeyore102: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.

That's not what people are complaining about for the most part.  That's alluded to enough in the Hobbit that most people familiar with the book will understand.  It's the romance with an elf character that Jackson made up, and the changing of a lot of other scenes, that is pissing people off.  The barrel ride turning from a clever escape into just a fight sequence?  Thranduil offering to help the dwarfs?  That's so far off from what happens in the book that it makes me wonder if Jackson ever read it to begin with.

Smaug sounds cool, but there's been a few leaks about his appearance and it doesn't match the JRR Tolkien illustrations and that disappoints me.  Freeman is good with doing a lot with shiat, but nothing can really help this stench.  I'll probably rent it, but there's no way I'm sitting in a theater for three hours for a Jackson movie ever again.

I assume Peter Jackson is throwing in the stuff with Tauriel so he can have a token female warrior. I'm not thrilled with it but I guess it could be worse.

I'm going to hold my criticism on stuff like Thranduil offering to help the dwarfs until I see the film. It could be that it's not as it seems from the trailer, who knows.


Tauriel & Legolas romance reminds me so much of a fan fiction I wrote at 13, it's slightly creepy.

Red-headed, badass Elf warrior princess who falls in love with the handsome Legolas, the only difference was her name, Elenwen, or star maiden. It's like Peter Jackson peered into my lonely, dorky 13-year old heart.

Thankfully this was pre-internet and never made it onto the web, I threw that notebook out years ago.

/I had a crush on Legolas before the movies biatches
//Even my childish fan fiction mary-sue character was better than Twilight
 
2013-10-01 02:25:15 PM

Seth'n'Spectrum: If Hollywood wants to make a Tolkein romance, there's Beren and Luthien. You don't have to make one up.


No love for Turin Turambar and Nienor Niniel?
 
2013-10-01 02:26:21 PM

eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.


Why is that necessary?

Really, why do we need to see all those things?  Does it make it a better story?

The Hobbit, if you'll remember, had none of that stuff because the book wasn't written to care about that stuff.  The story focused on Bilbo's journey, not on some greater narrative that competes for attention and ultimately is unresolved.

Just because we can jam in a bunch of extraneous stuff doesn't mean we should.  And the argument that "it happened" during the Hobbit so we have to show it is ridiculous.  These are books, not a real universe.  JRR Tolkien decided most of this extra stuff well after the Hobbit was written, this stuff isn't vital to the narrative.
 
2013-10-01 02:26:38 PM

RoyFokker'sGhost: eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.

So, putting in the material that was mentioned in the book but never written by Tolkien is okay, and cutting out the entire final chapter of Return of the King is also okay? The only chapter that has any symbolism in the series whatsoever as the Scouring of the Shire was Tolkien's lament for the loss of the green and pleasant England of his youth to the forces of industrialization?

I'm just saying that the Lord of the Rings movies got less and less about Tolkien's books in the second and third films and more and more about Legolas being a nimble bastard and Peter Jackson saying 'Hey! Look what we can do with computers!'


Please do not put words in my mouth. I did not say that cutting out "The Scouring of the Shire" was ok, nor will you hear me say that. I am rather responding to the people who think there isn't enough material in "The Hobbit" to justify more than one movie.
 
2013-10-01 02:29:46 PM

Stile4aly: Seth'n'Spectrum: If Hollywood wants to make a Tolkein romance, there's Beren and Luthien. You don't have to make one up.

No love for Turin Turambar and Nienor Niniel?


I don't think the Twi-hards are going to come out for such a sad tale.
 
2013-10-01 02:33:53 PM

Seth'n'Spectrum: Stile4aly: Seth'n'Spectrum: If Hollywood wants to make a Tolkein romance, there's Beren and Luthien. You don't have to make one up.

No love for Turin Turambar and Nienor Niniel?

I don't think the Twi-hards are going to come out for such a sad tale.


Or the accidental incest.
 
2013-10-01 02:36:59 PM

Esc7: eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.

Why is that necessary?

Really, why do we need to see all those things?  Does it make it a better story?

The Hobbit, if you'll remember, had none of that stuff because the book wasn't written to care about that stuff.  The story focused on Bilbo's journey, not on some greater narrative that competes for attention and ultimately is unresolved.

Just because we can jam in a bunch of extraneous stuff doesn't mean we should.  And the argument that "it happened" during the Hobbit so we have to show it is ridiculous.  These are books, not a real universe.  JRR Tolkien decided most of this extra stuff well after the Hobbit was written, this stuff isn't vital to the narrative.


But the events of "The Hobbit" do not take place in a vacuum, as it were. They take place in the context of the larger story of The One Ring. If you treat this series of films as a prequel to LotR, then it helps to explain the events that took place even if they were merely alluded to in the book.

I love Tolkien's works and believe he was an inspired author, but there are a couple of things he did that are a bit odd. He made the choice to tell "The Hobbit" from Bilbo's point of view, which is good, but in making that choice, we ended up with Gandalf having to explain very tersely something that was a major development in the history of Middle Earth. It's ok in a book, but in a movie, people prefer to be shown things, not have them told to them.
 
2013-10-01 02:40:31 PM

eeyore102: RoyFokker'sGhost: eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.

So, putting in the material that was mentioned in the book but never written by Tolkien is okay, and cutting out the entire final chapter of Return of the King is also okay? The only chapter that has any symbolism in the series whatsoever as the Scouring of the Shire was Tolkien's lament for the loss of the green and pleasant England of his youth to the forces of industrialization?

I'm just saying that the Lord of the Rings movies got less and less about Tolkien's books in the second and third films and more and more about Legolas being a nimble bastard and Peter Jackson saying 'Hey! Look what we can do with computers!'

Please do not put words in my mouth. I did not say that cutting out "The Scouring of the Shire" was ok, nor will you hear me say that. I am rather responding to the people who think there isn't enough material in "The Hobbit" to justify more than one movie.


Also, the studios don't really care whether something is right or not. They only care about "can we use this to make money" which in the case of the appendices was 'yes' because it gave them the chance to expand The Hobbit into a LotR prequel trilogy instead of being a stand alone story. Also, movie studios don't often care about being true to the source material if they can make something more "entertaining" from a movie making perspective.

We Tolkien fans may want something closer to the source material, but the studios don't abide by the just the hardcore lore nerds. They're trying to make a movie that caters to the largest audience, and sadly this means Mr. Fancy Pants surfing down stairs and oliphant tusks...
 
2013-10-01 02:44:01 PM

Night Night Cream Puff: eeyore102: RoyFokker'sGhost: eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.

So, putting in the material that was mentioned in the book but never written by Tolkien is okay, and cutting out the entire final chapter of Return of the King is also okay? The only chapter that has any symbolism in the series whatsoever as the Scouring of the Shire was Tolkien's lament for the loss of the green and pleasant England of his youth to the forces of industrialization?

I'm just saying that the Lord of the Rings movies got less and less about Tolkien's books in the second and third films and more and more about Legolas being a nimble bastard and Peter Jackson saying 'Hey! Look what we can do with computers!'

Please do not put words in my mouth. I did not say that cutting out "The Scouring of the Shire" was ok, nor will you hear me say that. I am rather responding to the people who think there isn't enough material in "The Hobbit" to justify more than one movie.

Also, the studios don't really care whether something is right or not. They only care about "can we use this to make money" which in the case of the appendices was 'yes' because it gave them the chance to expand The Hobbit into a LotR prequel trilogy instead of being a stand alone story. Also, movie studios don't often care about being true to the source material if they can make something more "entertaining" from a movie making perspective.

We Tolkien fans may want something closer to the source material, but the studios don't abide by the just the hardcore ...


Yeah that bit was pretty dumb. Legolas is a decent enough fighter in the books, but that was way over the top. I was also kind of sad they made Frodo kind of wimpy in the movies -- in the books, he could be fierce in a pinch, proving that Hobbits could do the unexpected.
 
2013-10-01 02:48:26 PM

eeyore102: Yeah that bit was pretty dumb. Legolas is a decent enough fighter in the books, but that was way over the top. I was also kind of sad they made Frodo kind of wimpy in the movies -- in the books, he could be fierce in a pinch, proving that Hobbits could do the unexpected.


Frodo? He was pretty passive in the book. He got stabbed, grabbed, and bitten a lot, but that was about it.
 
2013-10-01 02:49:27 PM

Fano: UrukHaiGuyz: Alphax: Lord Dimwit: The best thing Jackson did with LOTR was removing all the damn singing and slow, mostly irrelevant side-plots.

The worst thing Jackson did with The Hobbit was keeping the damn singing and adding in irrelevant side-plots that weren't even there in the book just to get it padded out to a trilogy.

My wife nearly walked out of the cinema when at the beginning it looked like The Hobbit was going to be a musical.

What, 'That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates' is original material, and hardly something to object to.

I don't think they kept in any other songs.

The Dwarves sang the Lonely Mountain song, but I think that's it.

down down to goblin town and 15 birds?


Oh yeah, right you are. Need to re-watch, it's been a while.
 
2013-10-01 02:50:55 PM

eeyore102: Yeah that bit was pretty dumb. Legolas is a decent enough fighter in the books, but that was way over the top. I was also kind of sad they made Frodo kind of wimpy in the movies -- in the books, he could be fierce in a pinch, proving that Hobbits could do the unexpected.


No love for killer Frodo when he puts sting to Gollum's throat in Two Towers? Anyway, his struggle was always meant to be more internal.
 
2013-10-01 02:57:59 PM

eeyore102: Esc7: eeyore102: Thing is, there was a lot of stuff that happened during the timeline of "The Hobbit" that didn't really make it into the book...largely involving Gandalf. Big stuff, like convening the White Council and assaulting the Necromancer (a.k.a. Sauron) in his fortress at Dol Guldur. IMO this is *not* extra and unnecessary stuff if you are framing this story in the larger "Lord of the Rings" context. Putting this material into the movies will help it fit in with the events that take place fifty years later.

Why is that necessary?

Really, why do we need to see all those things?  Does it make it a better story?

The Hobbit, if you'll remember, had none of that stuff because the book wasn't written to care about that stuff.  The story focused on Bilbo's journey, not on some greater narrative that competes for attention and ultimately is unresolved.

Just because we can jam in a bunch of extraneous stuff doesn't mean we should.  And the argument that "it happened" during the Hobbit so we have to show it is ridiculous.  These are books, not a real universe.  JRR Tolkien decided most of this extra stuff well after the Hobbit was written, this stuff isn't vital to the narrative.

But the events of "The Hobbit" do not take place in a vacuum, as it were. They take place in the context of the larger story of The One Ring. If you treat this series of films as a prequel to LotR, then it helps to explain the events that took place even if they were merely alluded to in the book.

I love Tolkien's works and believe he was an inspired author, but there are a couple of things he did that are a bit odd. He made the choice to tell "The Hobbit" from Bilbo's point of view, which is good, but in making that choice, we ended up with Gandalf having to explain very tersely something that was a major development in the history of Middle Earth. It's ok in a book, but in a movie, people prefer to be shown things, not have them told to them.


Actually I would argue that they can be.  You seem to enjoy Tolkien's novels, so I don't need to tell you that the Hobbit was written down before LOTR was a glimmer in his eyes.  And that as he wrote LOTR he amended and changed the Hobbit in successive printings to better accommodate the plot of LOTR.

The retcons Tolkien made are not important.  They are not why people like the Hobbit.  The minutiae of details that link the books together are also not important to the Hobbit.  What is important to the Hobbit is themes, the character growth, and the sense of wonder and adventure in that world.  That is what enraptured and entertained people.  Not the middling details that link it to the LOTR.

I'm not so dour as to be against showing Legolas in Mirkwood as an callback to the other movies mind you.  I'm just against this idea that ephemera are of the utmost importance.  That sticking the plot into a greater framework of a universe comes first and the actual movie second.  Its aspie comic book thinking bleeding over into classic fantasy novels.

Unless the main joy you derive is from seeing a bunch of details fit together and having an internally consistent timeline by all means enjoy all the necromancers and dol guldurs you want.

I think it is unnecessary and muddles the main story of the Hobbit.  It makes it a worse movie.  I'm certain it will be exciting and badass to see Gandalf kicking butt.
 
2013-10-01 03:06:41 PM

Esc7: Unless the main joy you derive is from seeing a bunch of details fit together and having an internally consistent timeline by all means enjoy all the necromancers and dol guldurs you want.

I think it is unnecessary and muddles the main story of the Hobbit. It makes it a worse movie. I'm certain it will be exciting and badass to see Gandalf kicking butt.


I disagree with the idea that the Dol Gulder/White Council subplot detracts from the Hobbit story. I think it lends urgency, and gives more options for traditional cliffhanger edits when there are multiple story threads, making the movie version work better than a strict adaptation.
 
2013-10-01 03:09:25 PM

Skyrmion: eeyore102: Yeah that bit was pretty dumb. Legolas is a decent enough fighter in the books, but that was way over the top. I was also kind of sad they made Frodo kind of wimpy in the movies -- in the books, he could be fierce in a pinch, proving that Hobbits could do the unexpected.

Frodo? He was pretty passive in the book. He got stabbed, grabbed, and bitten a lot, but that was about it.


Not at all.

On Weathertop he stabbed at one of the Nazgul, but only got its robe.

He actually rode to the Ford of Bruinen on his own and tried to defy the Nazgul who commanded him to surrender.

He stabbed a cave troll in the foot with Sting.
 
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