Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Some Fat Singing Guy)   Well it looks like the fat lady has sung at the New York City Opera   (classicfm.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, New York City Opera, fat lady, New York, Metropolitan Opera, operas  
•       •       •

3283 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 01 Oct 2013 at 1:21 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



35 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-10-01 01:23:44 PM  
Totally mis-managed.
 
2013-10-01 01:27:11 PM  
This makes me sad.

One of my relatives and a buddy of his were given free tickets to the San Francisco Opera the night before they shipped out for the Pacific in WWII.

Maybe they should have hired a big voice...a draw...a fixer...oh well, too late.
 
2013-10-01 01:29:24 PM  
What? You mean Anna Nicole the opera didn't attract the big spenders and donors that traditionally give to NYCO?
 
2013-10-01 01:33:38 PM  
opera has always struck me as a medium with a very limited appeal. its not surprising given the overhead and the general disinterest in it that its failing
 
2013-10-01 01:36:19 PM  
Is there another link? For some reason, the website has been blocked by the administrators.
/interestingly, 4chan is not blocked
//yet
 
2013-10-01 01:37:01 PM  

tlchwi02: opera has always struck me as a medium with a very limited appeal. its not surprising given the overhead and the general disinterest in it that its failing


I saw John Zorn's Masada Marathon at the NYCO.  Far from opera, but a great venue ...
 
2013-10-01 01:52:49 PM  
If the patrons are not donating then that's what happens. It is surprising that it happened in New York, which prides itself in being a world cultural center. I predict there will be a short hiatus, a change of management, and the Valkyries will be back to work.
imageshack.us
 
2013-10-01 01:52:50 PM  

tlchwi02: opera has always struck me as a medium with a very limited appeal. its not surprising given the overhead and the general disinterest in it that its failing


This one's fine I think:   http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/index.aspx?

I am not a huge opera fan but the few times I have gone it's been pretty entertaining.
 
2013-10-01 02:12:55 PM  

tlchwi02: opera has always struck me as a medium with a very limited appeal. its not surprising given the overhead and the general disinterest in it that its failing


Opera is a demonstration of all of the arts in their highest form. It's stagecraft, composition, performance, dance, fabric arts. There's a 20-minute miracle happening between each act. A production from a major company can run into millions of dollars and it's ALL on the stage. If you've never been, the Metropolitan Opera HD simulcasts that go out to movie theaters around the US every few weeks all autumn - spring are a fantastic introduction, or if you're willing to invest $30 in a DVD, the Madame Butterfly and/or Carmen performances are truly breathtaking examples of human capacity to create art.
 
2013-10-01 02:14:41 PM  
If you take a look at their market share, is it really any wonder?

i406.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-01 02:15:05 PM  

The Dynamite Monkey: tlchwi02: opera has always struck me as a medium with a very limited appeal. its not surprising given the overhead and the general disinterest in it that its failing

This one's fine I think:   http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/index.aspx?

I am not a huge opera fan but the few times I have gone it's been pretty entertaining.


thank you, I was wondering if NYC had more than one opera company.
 
2013-10-01 02:21:27 PM  

3825968: What? You mean Anna Nicole the opera didn't attract the big spenders and donors that traditionally give to NYCO?


You're thinking of the Met Opera which is fine. This is a smaller more experimental company.
 
2013-10-01 02:40:06 PM  

Egalitarian: The Dynamite Monkey: tlchwi02: opera has always struck me as a medium with a very limited appeal. its not surprising given the overhead and the general disinterest in it that its failing

This one's fine I think:   http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/index.aspx?

I am not a huge opera fan but the few times I have gone it's been pretty entertaining.

thank you, I was wondering if NYC had more than one opera company.


With the amount of money that the MET gets they'll be good into the next century.

CSB: Had a friend who ran lights up in the ceiling of the MET, he used to invite a couple of friends up there once in a while. The room had a couch and beer in a fridge. You were so far away you couldn't see much but it was fun hanging out.
 
2013-10-01 02:41:53 PM  

red5ish: If the patrons are not donating then that's what happens. It is surprising that it happened in New York, which prides itself in being a world cultural center. I predict there will be a short hiatus, a change of management, and the Valkyries will be back to work.
[imageshack.us image 500x310]


you know what's really funny about wagner's ring cycle.  a goof with the props guy is the reason people put horns on helmets and attribute the look to vikings.

wagner says, i needs helmets and horns.  which means, helmets to wear and horns to drink from.  the prop guy attaches all the horns to the helmets.

/ old norse folk did not have horns on their helmets, because the horns would be detrimental to combat.  you want blows to glance off the head, you don't want to make sure that you can hook every attack to the head, and direct it to your brains.  it was too late to correct the problem before the first performance.
 
2013-10-01 03:15:51 PM  

pute kisses like a man: red5ish: If the patrons are not donating then that's what happens. It is surprising that it happened in New York, which prides itself in being a world cultural center. I predict there will be a short hiatus, a change of management, and the Valkyries will be back to work.
[imageshack.us image 500x310]

you know what's really funny about wagner's ring cycle.  a goof with the props guy is the reason people put horns on helmets and attribute the look to vikings.

wagner says, i needs helmets and horns.  which means, helmets to wear and horns to drink from.  the prop guy attaches all the horns to the helmets.

/ old norse folk did not have horns on their helmets, because the horns would be detrimental to combat.  you want blows to glance off the head, you don't want to make sure that you can hook every attack to the head, and direct it to your brains.  it was too late to correct the problem before the first performance.


Also, "kill the wabbit" is generally considered a very loose translation of Wagner's (intentionally archaic) German.
 
2013-10-01 03:23:32 PM  
While this is pretty sad it is the reality. An opera is a pretty expensive undertaking in the first place and the venues for performance are fairly limited. My one extravagance in life these days are season tickets for the San Diego Opera and they had to go from five productions a season to four to cut costs.
 
2013-10-01 03:35:22 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: You're thinking of the Met Opera which is fine. This is a smaller more experimental company.


Trouble is, the economics of new operas don't really add up.

Back in Mozart's or Verdi's day, you made bank by writing operas. Even in Verdi's day, the way to make serious money was putting on operas. So, the operas were full of good tunes. Today, you can write a hit record and make a million without having to squeeze it into a convulted story. Which is why you can scour pretty much every post-1960s opera or musical and struggle to find good tunes.

I've sat in an auditorium watching Elektra which was about 1/3rd full. Following night, La Boheme, completely sold out. One has tunes, one doesn't.
 
2013-10-01 03:36:07 PM  

The Dynamite Monkey: tlchwi02: opera has always struck me as a medium with a very limited appeal. its not surprising given the overhead and the general disinterest in it that its failing

This one's fine I think:   http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/index.aspx?

I am not a huge opera fan but the few times I have gone it's been pretty entertaining.


I never expected to fall in love with opera but I did after I saw "Pagliacci" and "The Marriage of Figaro".

Talk about going from one extreme to another.
 
2013-10-01 04:24:26 PM  
RIP opera

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-10-01 05:20:53 PM  

The Dynamite Monkey: tlchwi02: opera has always struck me as a medium with a very limited appeal. its not surprising given the overhead and the general disinterest in it that its failing

This one's fine I think:   http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/index.aspx?

I am not a huge opera fan but the few times I have gone it's been pretty entertaining.


The Metropolitian Opera is the largest performing arts organization in the world. Their annual budget is $300 million.
 
2013-10-01 05:29:19 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: While this is pretty sad it is the reality. An opera is a pretty expensive undertaking in the first place and the venues for performance are fairly limited. My one extravagance in life these days are season tickets for the San Diego Opera and they had to go from five productions a season to four to cut costs.


Some 15 odd years ago I had the chance to go to their night of Wagner. Had a whole lot of fun, especially since they ended the show with Ride of the Valkyries complete with the stereotypically dressed (and fabulously talented) fat woman. Also loved hearing the various excerpts from Lohengrin.
 
2013-10-01 05:43:39 PM  
I want to be sad, but the last thing they performed was the Anna Nicole opera, and so as far as I'm concerned they were already dead.
 
2013-10-01 05:48:14 PM  

farkeruk: Dwight_Yeast: You're thinking of the Met Opera which is fine. This is a smaller more experimental company.

Trouble is, the economics of new operas don't really add up.

Back in Mozart's or Verdi's day, you made bank by writing operas. Even in Verdi's day, the way to make serious money was putting on operas. So, the operas were full of good tunes. Today, you can write a hit record and make a million without having to squeeze it into a convulted story. Which is why you can scour pretty much every post-1960s opera or musical and struggle to find good tunes.

I've sat in an auditorium watching Elektra which was about 1/3rd full. Following night, La Boheme, completely sold out. One has tunes, one doesn't.


You're conflating different issues:

1) economics: we've made opera more expensive to produce through a combination of paying musicians and crew a living wage, as well as having to use very large orchestras to fill a 3,500 seat house. They massive opera houses are a product of the 20th century. "Carmen," for example, debuted in a house that seats about 1,200 with a pit that barely fits 60 musicians. When you perform it at a house as large as the Met you have no choice but to use about 100 musicians. Similarly, any Mozart opera can easily be done with 40 musicians. But again, in modern size houses, you'll end up using close to 70.

2) Popularity of post-1960s: it's simply hard to get anything contemporary programmed because no one wants to take a risk when war horses do such predictable businesses, and nobody wants to crest scenery for an opera that's going to get limited use (both by the company and rented out to other companies). And few of the best contemporary composers are writing operas because no one is commissioning them.
 
2013-10-01 05:48:49 PM  

Thats_right_ALL_the_tea: I want to be sad, but the last thing they performed was the Anna Nicole opera, and so as far as I'm concerned they were already dead.


It's actually a great opera.
 
2013-10-01 05:56:44 PM  

KierzanDax: Some 15 odd years ago I had the chance to go to their night of Wagner. Had a whole lot of fun, especially since they ended the show with Ride of the Valkyries complete with the stereotypically dressed (and fabulously talented) fat woman. Also loved hearing the various excerpts from Lohengrin.


A couple of years back they did Tannhauser. It remains the only opera I have ever attended where the set for the first act received a round of applause as the curtain came up for the overture.
 
2013-10-01 05:58:44 PM  

bingo the psych-o: The Dynamite Monkey: tlchwi02: opera has always struck me as a medium with a very limited appeal. its not surprising given the overhead and the general disinterest in it that its failing

This one's fine I think:   http://www.metoperafamily.org/metopera/index.aspx?

I am not a huge opera fan but the few times I have gone it's been pretty entertaining.

I never expected to fall in love with opera but I did after I saw "Pagliacci" and "The Marriage of Figaro".

Talk about going from one extreme to another.


One's considered a mediocre tragic opera by a relative "one-hit wonder" composer that no one would know about if it weren't for  Vesti la giubba,and the other is arguably one of the most popular comic operas of all time by one of the most recognizable names in all of classical music.  Can see what you mean....
 
2013-10-01 06:32:21 PM  
I've been an opera fan since 1988, when on whim, I went to hear Britten's great A Midsummer's Night Dream here in Los Angeles. In those 25 years, things have certainly changed: there's so much opera available online (both legal and otherwise) that I know a couple of friends that don't bother going through the hassles of a "live" performance (ticket prices, travel, parking etc.) any more. The recession has definitely hurt opera, it's so expensive to produce that every dollar/Euro counts.

There's also a vast difference of the way opera is done in the US and done in Europe. In the US, it generally sticks to the same 20 or 30 operas and is very star-dependent. In Europe, as noted above, the houses are smaller, so you get singers that wouldn't make it for 10 minutes at barns like the Met or Lyric Opera, plus there's a much wider repertoire in play. Hell, one of my very favorite operas is Riemann's totally 12-tone Lear and it's done pretty much once a season in Europe, the last time in the US was the early 80's. Opera is something that people simply grow up with in places like Germany and France and Italy, it's fairly affordable due to state subsidies and there's not all the hideously boring nonsense of "But....but....do I wear a tuxedo to the opera? Why can't I can't clap when I want to?" class-based nonsense that is pervasive in the US and the UK.

It's always going to be a nice entertainment but that's OK. At least people have quit pretending that pop singers like Andrea Bocelli and Katherine Jenkins are going to make opera popular with people under 30.
 
2013-10-01 07:06:15 PM  
Henry Holland:

It's always going to be a nice entertainment but that's OK. At least people have quit pretending that pop singers like Andrea Bocelli and Katherine Jenkins are going to make opera popular with people under 30.

Something that the Canadian Opera Company in Toronto does that would be nice for people under 30 in other places like LA is the concept of "$30 under 30".  I'm sure it would do more than "pop stars".  My wife and I have taken advantage of it a few times, but now that we're 30 we can't anymore :(
 
2013-10-01 09:14:44 PM  
been season ticket holders to the l.a. opera for 3 years.  don't really know anything about opera, but enjoy the costumes and sets and voices.  it's a great date and occasionally bare cans on display which i'm sure is why opera glasses exist.  also, worst case scenario it allows for a nice nap.

/15.5 hours of the ring cycle
//favor italian operas
///zzz
 
2013-10-02 01:45:02 AM  
Rich, old, meaningless, white people problems.  Opera requires an enormous amount of money to sustain, and since the audience is so limited the ticket prices areextraordinary even with outside funding to subsidise it.

Let the bankers and their wives keep it up if they feel like it.  The plebes spend their money on movies these days, but they're even stopping that support.  Take discretionary income from the masses, and the masses won't support your absurdly expensive appreciate of "the arts."

The Met will always have money, because the stupidly rich need their night out.  The rest will fall by the wayside, for good reason - the poor don't have the money, the time, nor the inclination to see it.
 
2013-10-02 03:23:52 AM  
I made the switch to UCBrowser.

Opera hasn't really done a good job of supporting Android platform....
 
2013-10-02 03:39:20 PM  

thornhill: farkeruk: Dwight_Yeast: You're thinking of the Met Opera which is fine. This is a smaller more experimental company.

Trouble is, the economics of new operas don't really add up.

Back in Mozart's or Verdi's day, you made bank by writing operas. Even in Verdi's day, the way to make serious money was putting on operas. So, the operas were full of good tunes. Today, you can write a hit record and make a million without having to squeeze it into a convulted story. Which is why you can scour pretty much every post-1960s opera or musical and struggle to find good tunes.

I've sat in an auditorium watching Elektra which was about 1/3rd full. Following night, La Boheme, completely sold out. One has tunes, one doesn't.

You're conflating different issues:

1) economics: we've made opera more expensive to produce through a combination of paying musicians and crew a living wage, as well as having to use very large orchestras to fill a 3,500 seat house. They massive opera houses are a product of the 20th century. "Carmen," for example, debuted in a house that seats about 1,200 with a pit that barely fits 60 musicians. When you perform it at a house as large as the Met you have no choice but to use about 100 musicians. Similarly, any Mozart opera can easily be done with 40 musicians. But again, in modern size houses, you'll end up using close to 70.

2) Popularity of post-1960s: it's simply hard to get anything contemporary programmed because no one wants to take a risk when war horses do such predictable businesses, and nobody wants to crest scenery for an opera that's going to get limited use (both by the company and rented out to other companies). And few of the best contemporary composers are writing operas because no one is commissioning them.


All of this points to the basic problem of opera - that aesthetic taste and technology has changed since we used candles for footlights and all understood French, Italian, German, and English. Most all of the arts that thrived in the 18th and 19th centuries have fallen on tough times since the invention of electricity, audio and image recording, projection, radio, television, computers, and the Intarwebs. It's much easier to YouTube a video of a tune than wait a year for the traveling opera company to come back and stage the same production again. Plus, as was stated in #2 above, no one is commissioning the composition of new operas-and why? There's not much of an audience. Most folks don't care for it anymore than they care for orchestral music, ballet, (non-musical) theatre, and chamber recitals. It's OK every once in a while, but not as a regular outing. So, with opera being the apotheosis of the performing arts, it's kind of like all the things modern audiences don't care about anymore all rolled up into one uber-expensive production that requires subtitles at the foot of the stage.

If you want the modern version of opera, quit whining about the death of a revered, but irrelevant, art form and go see "The Book of Mormon". A lot of fun and no subtitles.
 
2013-10-02 04:06:00 PM  

dc0012c: All of this points to the basic problem of opera - that aesthetic taste and technology has changed since we used candles for footlights and all understood French, Italian, German, and English. Most all of the arts that thrived in the 18th and 19th centuries have fallen on tough times since the invention of electricity, audio and image recording, projection, radio, television, computers, and the Intarwebs. It's much easier to YouTube a video of a tune than wait a year for the traveling opera company to come back and stage the same production again. Plus, as was stated in #2 above, no one is commissioning the composition of new operas-and why? There's not much of an audience. Most folks don't care for it anymore than they care for orchestral music, ballet, (non-musical) theatre, and chamber recitals. It's OK every once in a while, but not as a regular outing. So, with opera being the apotheosis of the performing arts, it's kind of like all the things modern audiences don't care about anymore all rolled up into one uber-expensive production that requires subtitles at the foot of the stage.

If you want the modern version of opera, quit whining about the death of a revered, but irrelevant, art form and go see "The Book of Mormon". A lot of fun and no subtitles.


Aesthetic tastes for art and entertainment are always changing. While I don't doubt that the demand for opera is not what it once was, The City Opera's collapse is hardly representative of the whole industry. City Opera died because of a number of management mistakes, notably going dark for a year and spending away their entire endowment.
 
2013-10-02 04:42:02 PM  
Lsherm: Rich, old, meaningless, white people problems. Opera requires an enormous amount of money to sustain, and since the audience is so limited the ticket prices areextraordinary even with outside funding to subsidise it.

dc0012c: If you want the modern version of opera, quit whining about the death of a revered, but irrelevant, art form and go see "The Book of Mormon". A lot of fun and no subtitles.


Cost of my tickets to LA Opera productions: $30 for an excellent seat in the balcony with good sitelines and great sound

Cost of the cheapest ticket for Book of Mormon on Broadway: $159 at the top of the balcony, top is $299.

And they don't need subtitles because the singers are miked, otherwise their puny Broadway voices wouldn't carry beyond the third row.

Most folks don't care for it anymore than they care for orchestral music, ballet, (non-musical) theatre, and chamber recitals.

"Most folks" today think that watching cat videos on YouTube is a good way to spend time, so mileage may vary.

Of course, both of your comments are US-centric, but so what if a new production at the Met doesn't have as much pop culture clout as the opening of a big budget superhero movie or that opera/orchestra/ballet isn't as popular as it was even pre-WWII? There still *is* an audience for it and that audience should be catered to.  Guess what? In another 50 years, Broadway shows like Book of Mormon will be thought of as something that happened before entertainment is streamed directly in to our cerebral cortex's.
 
2013-10-02 05:13:44 PM  

Henry Holland: Of course, both of your comments are US-centric


But applicable to the rest of the world.  Remember that most of the hit U.S. reality TV shows are imports from the U.K. or Japan.  Poor taste is universal.

I happen to think things like opera ought be supported by the state (if necessary).  It's important to preserve Western culture and not let our highest artistic achievements fall victim to the whim of the marketplace.
 
Displayed 35 of 35 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report