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(Huffington Post)   House GOP: "How about this, Debt Ceiling Lift for Obamacare delay?" Senate Dem: "No, revise it. Be serious." House GOP: "How about this, Debt Ceiling Lift for Obamacare delay?" USA:"fark you"   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, House GOP, obamacare, GOP, Van Hollen, Majority Leader Harry Reid, individual mandate, ACA, Boehner  
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2757 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Sep 2013 at 7:12 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-30 07:21:42 PM  
If I was Reid I would make a list of things and go. "Ok we will delay the mandate for one year, but we get..."

Watch them fold because they actually don't have a problem with the mandate. They only use that because it's the least popular part of Obamacare.
 
2013-09-30 07:21:58 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Because we as a society have decided that health care is something we all pay for.

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?


As much as it takes. Healthcare providers have to write-off millions a year due to unpaid ER visits, they pass those costs onto everyone else. You think it actually costs $4k to pick you up in an ambulance?

How about because my kids or my neighbors' kids might go to school with your kids. Or we might go to the same theater, or public sporting event. The more people are able to seek preventative care the fewer major outbreaks we'll have and the healthier the people are around us the less likely we are to get sick. Also the healthier people are the more productive they'll be and the more likely they'll be to have opportunities for advancement. Missing work because your sick and can't afford to see the doctor can have a significant impact on your ability to advance in a career or even complete higher education.

Which means that a healthier population is a more productive population which means that fewer people will NEED as much healthcare which means costs come down for everybody.
 
2013-09-30 07:24:02 PM  

Rincewind53: Dancin_In_Anson: And now we're going to add 'free' heathcare for all to that list because it (like everything else you listed) the government has determined to be a moral duty.

Sure, if you'll admit that adding free healthcare to that list is not qualitatively a different kind of "forcing" than "forcing" you to pay for this little guy's bamboo:
[cdn.freelancestar.com image 600x342]


You don't get it.  God wanted Pandas to be extinct.  The zoo ruined God's plan.  Why am I paying for such blasphemy?
 
2013-09-30 07:24:34 PM  
cinemafanatic.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-30 07:24:58 PM  

Rincewind53: Dancin_In_Anson: It appears that it's my moral obligation to society.

I'd argue that it's your societal, not moral, obligation to pay taxes, and that Congress can then do with those taxes what it pleases, and if you have a problem with that your societal obligation is to attempt to vote them out of office.

The only forcing going on here is in the initial requirement to pay taxes, which you do. You are not more "forced to pay" for anything that those taxes go to. Unless it's a very specific tax that is budgeted only to one specific purpose, like a tax that said "You will pay X percentage of your income and these tax funds will go only to Y government program," which is generally  not how our tax system works and was not part of any debate over a national healthcare system.

So I guess right now you actually  are being forced to pay for other people's healthcare, because you have to pay specific Medicare taxes.


If you were a chick.. i'd totes bang you right now
 
2013-09-30 07:25:00 PM  
Well, looks like the revolt failed.   Shutdown, here we come.
 
2013-09-30 07:26:59 PM  

birdmanesq: I didn't realize that 'Quisling' was a thing in Freeper land these days.

That's f*cking hilarious.


What the fark is a 'Quisling'?

/not going to click an FR link
 
2013-09-30 07:27:53 PM  

Bschott007: Well, looks like the revolt failed.   Shutdown, here we come.


Ted Cruz is probably going to have all of those Von Stauffenbergs lined up against a wall out back and unceremoniously shot.
 
2013-09-30 07:28:15 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: If you were a chick.. i'd totes bang you right now


I'll squeeze my moobs together real tight for you.
 
2013-09-30 07:29:04 PM  

anfrind: Quisling


People who collaborated with the Axis in WWII
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quisling
 
2013-09-30 07:29:19 PM  

anfrind: birdmanesq: I didn't realize that 'Quisling' was a thing in Freeper land these days.

That's f*cking hilarious.

What the fark is a 'Quisling'?

/not going to click an FR link


Vidkun Quisling was a Norwegian politician who cooperated with the Nazis during WWII and had the very bad luck to have his name be turned into a noun meaning a collaborator with an evil oppressive regime.
 
2013-09-30 07:33:20 PM  

feckingmorons: I see the headline has it well put. The House proposed something, the Senate said no.

The senate didn't say, well can we delay it for 3 months? Can we compromise on something, they just said no. They have made up their minds not to negotiate and yet people fault the House.


How about this, you give me all your money and I get to kick you in the nuts every day? No, don't like that? What's your counter proposal? How often would you like to get kicked in the nuts after you give me all your money? Okay, how about this, you give me all your money and you get to get to receive my foot swiftly in your nuts every day. See, I've giving you something as part of the deal, my foot.

Why aren't you negotiating?
 
2013-09-30 07:36:39 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: FlashHarry: i want european-style single-payer health coverage.

Because?


Why do you ask?
 
2013-09-30 07:38:19 PM  
Seriously, the guy is actually a f*cking moron. And people respond constantly.
 
2013-09-30 07:39:37 PM  

bulldg4life: Seriously, the guy is actually a f*cking moron. And people respond constantly.


I know right? I think, deep down, some people like to be trolled.
 
2013-09-30 07:39:42 PM  
I have never been so disgusted by anything in my life. Is healthcare a right? No but I would rather people got their shots and treatment for VD instead of worrying about catching something when I'm out in public.

And if I can get cheaper, better healthcare than my company's policy privately? Great. That's tax deductible.

Guys, conservative means not legislating people's life choices and freedoms. Its not being a Christian literalist.

Next election, I'm voting pro-gun democrat.
 
2013-09-30 07:40:05 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: TuteTibiImperes: No, I think the government should appoint a panel of medical professionals to make those decisions

So you will willingly give control of decisions that affect your healthcare to some panel of professionals. It's ok though, because you live a healthy lifestyle so it really won't affect you in any way...it's the people like that guy over there that will be culled.


They already have protocols and boards to decide who gets transplants.
 
2013-09-30 07:41:29 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: czetie: And schools.

Yeah....central planned education has been a huge success.


The most productive workforce and strongest economy on the planet would suggest that, yes, public education has been a success.
 
2013-09-30 07:41:55 PM  
Dancin In Anson is a typical conservative idiot. There is no social contract in their mind. You pay your way, or you die. Because...who-the-fark-knows.

He's a sociopath, basically. Again, like most conservatives.
 
2013-09-30 07:42:42 PM  
People railing about death panels don't seem to know how insurance and transplant boards work
 
2013-09-30 07:43:38 PM  

feckingmorons: I see the headline has it well put. The House proposed something, the Senate said no.

The senate didn't say, well can we delay it for 3 months? Can we compromise on something, they just said no. They have made up their minds not to negotiate and yet people fault the House.



Heh... Do you really think anyone is buying this disingenuous crap?
 
2013-09-30 07:43:43 PM  
Government shutdown is not that big a deal.
Failure to resolve debt ceiling issue by Oct 17 deadline would be very, very bad.
 
2013-09-30 07:44:58 PM  
i25.photobucket.com

We get Obamacare and you get DeLay back?  Deal.
 
2013-09-30 07:45:37 PM  

realmolo: Dancin In Anson is a typical conservative idiot. There is no social contract in their mind. You pay your way, or you die. Because...who-the-fark-knows.

He's a sociopath, basically. Again, like most conservatives.


Ah fark. Now the thread will jump 300 posts all from him asking where EXACTLY he said he supports conservatives.

Semantics hair splitting GO.
 
2013-09-30 07:45:54 PM  
The Tea Party has so little faith in how the Constitution sets forward for bills becoming law that they are willing to fark over the economy, and hence the US population, in order to force their ideology on the population.

This whole charade is simple one big F**K you to the Founding Fathers, courtesy of the Tea Party.

If Obamacare truly is the nightmare that the GOP has claimed it to be, then the public will soon realize it, the Democrats will be driven from office in shame in 2014 and 2016 and the GOP will be able to roll back everything that the public will soon hate.

It is rather curious that they don't seem to think that that is a realistic scenario, and that speaks volumes.
 
2013-09-30 07:46:15 PM  

realmolo: Dancin In Anson is a typical conservative idiot. There is no social contract in their mind. You pay your way, or you die. Because...who-the-fark-knows.

He's a sociopath, basically. Again, like most conservatives.


Generally because most people don't like to feel obligated to people who they don't agree with. But as long as it benefits me and mine, I'm okay with it. Making healthcare cheaper and reducing the chance that I'll get sick is a win win for me. Also sticking it to the bastards at the inscos.
 
2013-09-30 07:47:33 PM  

DamnYankees: Jonathan Strong @j_strong
GOP member gets phone out, plays Johnny Cash cover of NIN "Hurt" to explain how he feels about current CR strategy


Amazing.


They should be playing "Closer", to describe what they're dong to the American Public.
 
2013-09-30 07:49:52 PM  

Beer cap: Moran is going off


[hero.jpg]
 
2013-09-30 07:51:26 PM  
You know, in the left wing derposphere that fark has devolved into I'm considered a far right winger. I think we spend too much and think ACA is a bad law, etc. etc.

But I want to go on record again and say this dance with shutdown and debt ceiling nonsense is petty and childish of the GOP. Ive shifted enough to the right in the past few years that I'd love to vote against the dems but alas the GOP isn't a viable alternative right now.
 
2013-09-30 07:52:58 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: You know, in the left wing derposphere that fark has devolved into I'm considered a far right winger. I think we spend too much and think ACA is a bad law, etc. etc.

But I want to go on record again and say this dance with shutdown and debt ceiling nonsense is petty and childish of the GOP. Ive shifted enough to the right in the past few years that I'd love to vote against the dems but alas the GOP isn't a viable alternative right now.


I feel the same, but nothing about the ACA in general is even bad. Right now progun democrat is the best alternative
 
2013-09-30 07:53:25 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: TuteTibiImperes: No, I think the government should appoint a panel of medical professionals to make those decisions

So you will willingly give control of decisions that affect your healthcare to some panel of professionals. It's ok though, because you live a healthy lifestyle so it really won't affect you in any way...it's the people like that guy over there that will be culled.


And this comment shows how you know nothing about how healthcare insurance has worked since it's inception.  Most decisions that are made at the insurance company are not made by doctors, but by actuarial specialists.  They looked at a cost benefit analysis, and decided whether you would get that lifesaving drug or surgery.

Couple that with the fact that so many insurance companies engaged in rescission (usually trying to find new and interesting ways to deny coverage to someone due to a specious 'pre-existing condition', and add in that many who did it for the companies got huge bonuses based on how many policies they could terminate), yeah, prior to the ACA, everything was just peachy.  But you go right on believing that our healthcare system was the best in the entire world compared to such 3rd world nations like the UK, Canada, and Germany.
 
2013-09-30 07:54:23 PM  

Carn: feckingmorons: I see the headline has it well put. The House proposed something, the Senate said no.

The senate didn't say, well can we delay it for 3 months? Can we compromise on something, they just said no. They have made up their minds not to negotiate and yet people fault the House.

feckingmorons, I demand you pay for TF for me for 1 year.


What do I get in return, a continuing resolution to fund the government? OK you've got a deal.
 
2013-09-30 07:54:50 PM  

Kit Fister: Debeo Summa Credo: You know, in the left wing derposphere that fark has devolved into I'm considered a far right winger. I think we spend too much and think ACA is a bad law, etc. etc.

But I want to go on record again and say this dance with shutdown and debt ceiling nonsense is petty and childish of the GOP. Ive shifted enough to the right in the past few years that I'd love to vote against the dems but alas the GOP isn't a viable alternative right now.

I feel the same, but nothing about the ACA in general is even bad. Right now progun democrat is the best alternative


It's bad because it was done under a Democrat's administration, not a Republican's.
 
2013-09-30 07:56:14 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: DamnYankees: FlashHarry: , that the mandate is there to offset the hit that insurance companies will take by not being able to deny coverage for preexisting conditions.

That's not why the mandate is there, actually. It's there to push healthy people onto the exchanges in order to create a larger risk pool and keep premiums down.

Two different ways of saying the same thing.  The insurance companies will lose money taking on 60 year old diabetics with cancer, but they'll make money on healthy 30 year olds.

Since the companies can't charge different rates based on pre-existing conditions through the exchanges, it's the only way to help them keep afloat.

Personally, I don't really care if the health insurance companies stay afloat.  I'd rather see them all go bankrupt and a single payer system put in place.


This is the thing the repubs want to do. Delay the mandate to make insurance rates go crazy high as everyone with expensive healthcare gets onto plans without paying for are existing conditions. Meanwhilethe healthy blow it off. When either premiums go crazy high or companies start going bankrupt the republicans get to say see we told you so while they dont mention that they caused it.
 
2013-09-30 07:57:06 PM  

feckingmorons: I see the headline has it well put. The House proposed something, the Senate said no.

The senate didn't say, well can we delay it for 3 months? Can we compromise on something, they just said no. They have made up their minds not to negotiate and yet people fault the House.


The United States does not negotiate with terrorists.
 
2013-09-30 07:58:06 PM  

Weatherkiss: It's bad because it was done under a Democrat's administration, not a Republican's.


politicians in the same party steal bills from one another just to feel that warm limelight.
Republicans would drown their mother if they though it would give them political clout.
ultimately, we've (the U.S.) have chosen unwisely as far as elected representatives.
 
2013-09-30 07:58:07 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Because we as a society have decided that health care is something we all pay for.

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?


A: Enough to keep little poor kids from dying just because they're poor.
 
2013-09-30 07:58:40 PM  

birdmanesq: In a way, I can totally understand viewing the budget CRs and the debt ceiling as leverage points. I mean, it is the desire to not have the US government shut down or for the US to not default on its obligation would seem to present serious incentive to acquiesce.

But in assigning blame, it's pretty clear that the party attempting to extract those concessions ought to be the group that bears the risk for the consequences.


We need a CR. It is obvious that Obamacare is defective as many parts of it have been delayed by Obama himself and other parts repealed - the 1099 for all small business transactions got the chop a few years ago if I recall. It is flawed and delaying that until it can be repaired is not unreasonable.

Refusing to delay flawed legislation and forcing the country into a governmental shutdown simply to make a point is improper, and yet that is the Democrat position.
 
2013-09-30 07:58:51 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: You know, in the left wing derposphere that fark has devolved into I'm considered a far right winger. I think we spend too much and think ACA is a bad law, etc. etc.

But I want to go on record again and say this dance with shutdown and debt ceiling nonsense is petty and childish of the GOP. Ive shifted enough to the right in the past few years that I'd love to vote against the dems but alas the GOP isn't a viable alternative right now.


You've done far too much shilling for Wall Street. Nobody with more than two brain cells to rub together believes you.
 
2013-09-30 07:59:05 PM  

DeArmondVI: The Tea Party has so little faith in how the Constitution sets forward for bills becoming law that they are willing to fark over the economy, and hence the US population, in order to force their ideology on the population.

This whole charade is simple one big F**K you to the Founding Fathers, courtesy of the Tea Party.

If Obamacare truly is the nightmare that the GOP has claimed it to be, then the public will soon realize it, the Democrats will be driven from office in shame in 2014 and 2016 and the GOP will be able to roll back everything that the public will soon hate.

It is rather curious that they don't seem to think that that is a realistic scenario, and that speaks volumes.


I believe that the logical response is "but letting obamacare ruin the country and kill millions would be petty, cruel and evil. We should stop it now rather than play politics".

So they can be consistent on that end, or at least they can try to appear to be.
 
2013-09-30 07:59:47 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Because we as a society have decided that health care is something we all pay for.

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?

A: Enough to keep little poor kids from dying just because they're poor.


I was going to tell him a-buck-O-five.
 
2013-09-30 08:00:16 PM  

feckingmorons: Carn: feckingmorons: I see the headline has it well put. The House proposed something, the Senate said no.

The senate didn't say, well can we delay it for 3 months? Can we compromise on something, they just said no. They have made up their minds not to negotiate and yet people fault the House.

feckingmorons, I demand you pay for TF for me for 1 year.

What do I get in return, a continuing resolution to fund the government? OK you've got a deal.


Why do you care about what you get in return? You're clearly just in it for yourself if all you care about is what you get in return. So just give Carn his 1 year of TF and we'll consider what we feel you deserve later.
 
2013-09-30 08:00:46 PM  

feckingmorons: birdmanesq: In a way, I can totally understand viewing the budget CRs and the debt ceiling as leverage points. I mean, it is the desire to not have the US government shut down or for the US to not default on its obligation would seem to present serious incentive to acquiesce.

But in assigning blame, it's pretty clear that the party attempting to extract those concessions ought to be the group that bears the risk for the consequences.

We need a CR. It is obvious that Obamacare is defective as many parts of it have been delayed by Obama himself and other parts repealed - the 1099 for all small business transactions got the chop a few years ago if I recall. It is flawed and delaying that until it can be repaired is not unreasonable.

Refusing to delay flawed legislation and forcing the country into a governmental shutdown simply to make a point is improper, and yet that is the Democrat position.


What does that have to do with a CR?
 
2013-09-30 08:01:52 PM  

Reminder.

Also for the 1st time I heard a GOP rep (Gingrey) praise "sequester-level" funding in CR itself. Fact it's considered "clean" is a GOP win.

- Suzy Khimm (@SuzyKhimm) September 30, 2013
 
2013-09-30 08:02:09 PM  

enry: What does that have to do with a CR?


Nothing. He's trolling.
 
2013-09-30 08:02:50 PM  

feckingmorons: birdmanesq: In a way, I can totally understand viewing the budget CRs and the debt ceiling as leverage points. I mean, it is the desire to not have the US government shut down or for the US to not default on its obligation would seem to present serious incentive to acquiesce.

But in assigning blame, it's pretty clear that the party attempting to extract those concessions ought to be the group that bears the risk for the consequences.

We need a CR. It is obvious that Obamacare is defective as many parts of it have been delayed by Obama himself and other parts repealed - the 1099 for all small business transactions got the chop a few years ago if I recall. It is flawed and delaying that until it can be repaired is not unreasonable.

Refusing to delay flawed legislation and forcing the country into a governmental shutdown simply to make a point is improper, and yet that is the Democrat position.


The mandate is a huge part of it and is central to it working. Many flawed parts are being delayed as you noted, so the law can be refined and implemented as cleanly as possible. I don't see any repub ideas to strengthen it, just ideas to tank it.
 
2013-09-30 08:03:16 PM  

Isitoveryet: Weatherkiss: It's bad because it was done under a Democrat's administration, not a Republican's.

politicians in the same party steal bills from one another just to feel that warm limelight.
Republicans would drown their mother if they though it would give them political clout.
ultimately, we've (the U.S.) have chosen unwisely as far as elected representatives.


Personally, I think we have the government we deserve. We go through this economic hostage situation every year. Every election year the same assholes keep getting re-elected. Noone recalls their senators or representatives for this kind of bullshiat they pull. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. The Teahadists are insane. We elect insane people to congress.

Yep. This is working exactly as intended and we get the government we deserve.
 
2013-09-30 08:03:44 PM  

tomcatadam: DeArmondVI: The Tea Party has so little faith in how the Constitution sets forward for bills becoming law that they are willing to fark over the economy, and hence the US population, in order to force their ideology on the population.

This whole charade is simple one big F**K you to the Founding Fathers, courtesy of the Tea Party.

If Obamacare truly is the nightmare that the GOP has claimed it to be, then the public will soon realize it, the Democrats will be driven from office in shame in 2014 and 2016 and the GOP will be able to roll back everything that the public will soon hate.

It is rather curious that they don't seem to think that that is a realistic scenario, and that speaks volumes.

I believe that the logical response is "but letting obamacare ruin the country and kill millions would be petty, cruel and evil. We should stop it now rather than play politics".

So they can be consistent on that end, or at least they can try to appear to be.


Given some of the derp I've seen from my friends on Facebook, I can see that
 
2013-09-30 08:04:40 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Rincewind53: Things that D_I_A is currently being forced to pay for:
- Housing relief for low-income families
- Oil subsidies to Exxon
- Agricultural subsidies to Monsanto
- Head Start programs for small children
- Food stamps for low-income families in Detroit
- The janitor whose job it is to clean the toilets at the Statue of Liberty
- Bamboo to feed the pandas at the National Zoo
- Hedge-trimming costs at Arlington National Cemetary
- President Obama's vacations
- My drink two weekends ago, which was paid for by my friend who is a Congressional staffer.

And now we're going to add 'free' heathcare for all to that list because it (like everything else you listed) the government has determined to be a moral duty.


No, the civilized individuals of the United States determined it is a moral duty.

It's fine that you don't understand or grasp the concept.
 
2013-09-30 08:05:33 PM  
Was just watching CNN, that Erin Burnett broad.

Pregnant female anchors are great.  "Okay, I kinda look like a whale, so I can can concentrate on getting good, reasonable answers on good questions so the muthafarkin gloves are OFF!"

/do not
//NOT
///mess with a pregnant dame

why yes I watched some Bogey this weekend
 
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