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(Huffington Post)   House GOP: "How about this, Debt Ceiling Lift for Obamacare delay?" Senate Dem: "No, revise it. Be serious." House GOP: "How about this, Debt Ceiling Lift for Obamacare delay?" USA:"fark you"   (huffingtonpost.com ) divider line
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2758 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Sep 2013 at 7:12 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-30 06:43:34 PM  

vudutek: You don't negotiate AFTER legislation is passed.


Why not? People negotiate to modify and indeed repeal legislation all the time.
 
2013-09-30 06:43:37 PM  

czetie: And schools.


Yeah....central planned education has been a huge success.
 
2013-09-30 06:44:54 PM  
I hope we get three more of these threads by midnight.
 
2013-09-30 06:46:46 PM  

unyon: And don't drag freedom into the equation without considering the freedom from fear:


I fear my government more than I fear going broke.
 
2013-09-30 06:47:22 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?


Just out of curiosity, are you for the repeal of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, WIC, SNAP, and food stamps as well?
 
2013-09-30 06:48:01 PM  

I_C_Weener: I hope we get three more of these threads by midnight.


Ah! the intelligent discussion to be had!
 
2013-09-30 06:48:24 PM  
TuteTibiImperes:Personally, I don't really care if the health insurance companies stay afloat.  I'd rather see them all go bankruptDIAF and a single payer system put in place.

Apparently I dislike them a bit more than you, but I'd still sign up for your newsletter.
 
2013-09-30 06:49:17 PM  
Exciting vote in the House right now - this is the first vote where there's a possibility the GOP will crack and it will fail to pass. 11:30 remaining in the vote.
 
2013-09-30 06:49:41 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: TuteTibiImperes: Everyone should pay into the same pot and it will be divvied out as necessary. Those who need more care will get it, those who need less will get what they need, but everyone pays in equally (well, based on progressive income brackets).

It won't matter if you're a Fortune 500 CEO or an out of work high school drop out - if you need to see a doctor you get to see a doctor free of charge, and everyone receives the same high quality level of care.

So with single payer, there are no questions asked. You show up, you're ushered in, you get "the same high quality healhtcare" and you physician gets a check. Let's say that I'm unemployed, overweight, eat unhealthy food, smoke like a chimney, don't wear a seat belt etc etc etc...You feel that you are morally responsible to take care of me no questions asked.


Yes.  Social programs to help promote healthy habits should be pushed, but at the end of the day, if you need medical care, you should get it regardless of personal choices (with a few limited exceptions, if you need a new liver due to alcoholism, you'd need to actually quit drinking first and be subject to random unannounced BAC tests while waiting to make sure you were following through for example).
 
2013-09-30 06:50:55 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Because we as a society have decided that health care is something we all pay for.

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?


How much do you think I should be forced to pay for our overbloated military?
 
2013-09-30 06:53:37 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Because we as a society have decided that health care is something we all pay for.

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?


Ah, the old "forced" crybaby argument. Thanks for proving yet again you can't converse like an adult.
 
2013-09-30 06:54:30 PM  
Jonathan Karl @jonkarl
NEWS FLASH -- President Obama just spoke to @SpeakerBoehner. Their first conversation since a week ago Friday.
 
2013-09-30 06:55:21 PM  

birdmanesq: DamnYankees: Honestly, I think its valid to do this over a CR. The thing is, if you think about it, a CR is basically saying "we will keep funding the government as it currently exists". Well, there's no particularly reason to see "as it currently exists" as the baseline. The baseline can be anything. In that sense, the GOP does have a right to do this. I think its stupid and bad policy and bad politics, but its fundamentally a valid way to negotiate. I just think they will lose.

The debt ceiling is entirely different, and not in any way a valid negotiating point.

This comes down to a failure to budget--likely an intentional decision to continue to have these negotiating points every 90 days.

And I think that "budget" issues should be differentiated from "policy" issues. So, as disgusted as I was by the Sequester, at least it was germane.


What do the goddamn Germans have to do with this?
 
2013-09-30 06:56:29 PM  

Coco LaFemme: birdmanesq: DamnYankees: Honestly, I think its valid to do this over a CR. The thing is, if you think about it, a CR is basically saying "we will keep funding the government as it currently exists". Well, there's no particularly reason to see "as it currently exists" as the baseline. The baseline can be anything. In that sense, the GOP does have a right to do this. I think its stupid and bad policy and bad politics, but its fundamentally a valid way to negotiate. I just think they will lose.

The debt ceiling is entirely different, and not in any way a valid negotiating point.

This comes down to a failure to budget--likely an intentional decision to continue to have these negotiating points every 90 days.

And I think that "budget" issues should be differentiated from "policy" issues. So, as disgusted as I was by the Sequester, at least it was germane.

What do the goddamn Germans have to do with this?


Barack sounds vaguely German.  Like Barackwurst.
 
2013-09-30 06:57:43 PM  

El_Perro: Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Because we as a society have decided that health care is something we all pay for.

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my roads?  My police?


It is a cornerstone of republican economist shills that not a single one of them got to the chapter on externalities.
 
2013-09-30 06:58:38 PM  

I_C_Weener: Coco LaFemme: birdmanesq: DamnYankees: Honestly, I think its valid to do this over a CR. The thing is, if you think about it, a CR is basically saying "we will keep funding the government as it currently exists". Well, there's no particularly reason to see "as it currently exists" as the baseline. The baseline can be anything. In that sense, the GOP does have a right to do this. I think its stupid and bad policy and bad politics, but its fundamentally a valid way to negotiate. I just think they will lose.

The debt ceiling is entirely different, and not in any way a valid negotiating point.

This comes down to a failure to budget--likely an intentional decision to continue to have these negotiating points every 90 days.

And I think that "budget" issues should be differentiated from "policy" issues. So, as disgusted as I was by the Sequester, at least it was germane.

What do the goddamn Germans have to do with this?

Barack sounds vaguely German.  Like Barackwurst.


And Neville Chamberlain appeased Hitler so that he could realize Bismarck's dream of universal health care.

And we can't have any of that.
 
2013-09-30 06:58:59 PM  

vudutek: Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Because we as a society have decided that health care is something we all pay for.

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?

How much do you think I should be forced to pay for our overbloated military?


Things that D_I_A is currently being forced to pay for:
- Housing relief for low-income families
- Oil subsidies to Exxon
- Agricultural subsidies to Monsanto
- Head Start programs for small children
- Food stamps for low-income families in Detroit
- The janitor whose job it is to clean the toilets at the Statue of Liberty
- Bamboo to feed the pandas at the National Zoo
- Hedge-trimming costs at Arlington National Cemetary
- President Obama's vacations
- My drink two weekends ago, which was paid for by my friend who is a Congressional staffer.

Thanks for the drink,  Dancing_in_Anson! I'll buy you one in return next time we hang.
 
2013-09-30 06:59:08 PM  

Coco LaFemme: What do the goddamn Germans have to do with this?


No, no, no, Germane you know, like Michael's older brother? I don't know if he can help solve this, but I'm willing to try anything at this point.
 
2013-09-30 07:00:37 PM  
RT @AJentleson It's taking the House hours to set up this vote, but it'll only take Senate 15 minutes to reject it.

That's from Harry Reid's communications director.
 
2013-09-30 07:00:39 PM  

Tigger: El_Perro: Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Because we as a society have decided that health care is something we all pay for.

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my roads?  My police?

It is a cornerstone of republican economist shills that not a single one of them got to the chapter on externalities.


Externalities don't exist in the free market.

And, you know, free riders are those who are dependent on welfare.
 
2013-09-30 07:01:21 PM  

nmrsnr: ust out of curiosity, are you for the repeal of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, WIC, SNAP, and food stamps as well?


I don't have a problem with safety net programs. I think that SS is a farce and after watching how Medicare took care of my Father in the year preceding his death, (after paying into it from it's inception) I'm not a big fan of it either.

TuteTibiImperes: with a few limited exceptions


Who will make those? You?

vudutek: How much do you think I should be forced to pay for our overbloated military?


The military budget need cutting...big time.

mediablitz: Ah, the old "forced" crybaby argument


What happens if you don't follow the law...any law?
 
2013-09-30 07:01:29 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: what_now: Because we as a society have decided that health care is something we all pay for.

How much do you think you should be forced to pay for my heathcare?


If you don't get insurance, end up in the emergency room, and don't pay, we're forced to pay anyway. At least this way we end up paying less.
 
2013-09-30 07:02:21 PM  

nmrsnr: Coco LaFemme: What do the goddamn Germans have to do with this?

No, no, no, Germane you know, like Michael's older brother? I don't know if he can help solve this, but I'm willing to try anything at this point.


He was referencing Smokey and the Bandit.
 
2013-09-30 07:03:29 PM  
I think the Republicans will do little to nothing until October 17th approaches - right now, social security will get paid tomorrow. It won't on November 3rd - and then their constituency will rise up on their hoverrounds and squish them flat.
 
2013-09-30 07:03:35 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: unyon: And don't drag freedom into the equation without considering the freedom from fear:

I fear my government more than I fear going broke.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you're not suffering from a chronic life threatening illness while having substandard insurance.

img.pandawhale.com
 
2013-09-30 07:03:45 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: What happens if you don't follow the law...any law?


Right now the law is facing you to pay taxes that went directly into buying me a drink two weekends ago.

Were you forced to buy me a drink?
 
2013-09-30 07:03:50 PM  

Rincewind53: Things that D_I_A is currently being forced to pay for:
- Housing relief for low-income families
- Oil subsidies to Exxon
- Agricultural subsidies to Monsanto
- Head Start programs for small children
- Food stamps for low-income families in Detroit
- The janitor whose job it is to clean the toilets at the Statue of Liberty
- Bamboo to feed the pandas at the National Zoo
- Hedge-trimming costs at Arlington National Cemetary
- President Obama's vacations
- My drink two weekends ago, which was paid for by my friend who is a Congressional staffer.


And now we're going to add 'free' heathcare for all to that list because it (like everything else you listed) the government has determined to be a moral duty.
 
2013-09-30 07:03:51 PM  

I_C_Weener: Coco LaFemme: birdmanesq: DamnYankees: Honestly, I think its valid to do this over a CR. The thing is, if you think about it, a CR is basically saying "we will keep funding the government as it currently exists". Well, there's no particularly reason to see "as it currently exists" as the baseline. The baseline can be anything. In that sense, the GOP does have a right to do this. I think its stupid and bad policy and bad politics, but its fundamentally a valid way to negotiate. I just think they will lose.

The debt ceiling is entirely different, and not in any way a valid negotiating point.

This comes down to a failure to budget--likely an intentional decision to continue to have these negotiating points every 90 days.

And I think that "budget" issues should be differentiated from "policy" issues. So, as disgusted as I was by the Sequester, at least it was germane.

What do the goddamn Germans have to do with this?

Barack sounds vaguely German.  Like Barackwurst.


Well, his people are known for their sausages.

i1148.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-30 07:04:04 PM  

Mugato: nmrsnr: Coco LaFemme: What do the goddamn Germans have to do with this?

No, no, no, Germane you know, like Michael's older brother? I don't know if he can help solve this, but I'm willing to try anything at this point.

He was referencing Smokey and the Bandit.


Plant-sex, folks. I'm not sure why this is so hard for you morons to understand.
 
2013-09-30 07:04:55 PM  
 
2013-09-30 07:05:14 PM  

Rincewind53: Dancin_In_Anson: What happens if you don't follow the law...any law?

Right now the law is facing forcingyou to pay taxes that went directly into buying me a drink two weekends ago.

Were you forced to buy me a drink?


FTFM
 
2013-09-30 07:05:28 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: nmrsnr: ust out of curiosity, are you for the repeal of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, WIC, SNAP, and food stamps as well?

I don't have a problem with safety net programs. I think that SS is a farce and after watching how Medicare took care of my Father in the year preceding his death, (after paying into it from it's inception) I'm not a big fan of it either.

TuteTibiImperes: with a few limited exceptions

Who will make those? You?


No, I think the government should appoint a panel of medical professionals to make those decisions.
 
2013-09-30 07:06:55 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: And now we're going to add 'free' heathcare for all to that list because it (like everything else you listed) the government has determined to be a moral duty.


Sure, if you'll admit that adding free healthcare to that list is not qualitatively a different kind of "forcing" than "forcing" you to pay for this little guy's bamboo:
cdn.freelancestar.com
 
2013-09-30 07:07:23 PM  
czetie:

Thinking about healthcare as insurance is already wrong. We should, like every other developed country in the world, have a society where everybody can rely on a basic level of healthcare regardless of their wealth, simply because it is better for each of us for all of us to be well, just as it is better for each of us for all of us to be educated.

And in the same way that I paid for other people's children's education when I was younger, and others are now helping to pay for mine, I should be happy to contribute to other people's health care when I was young and healthy (and by the way, not all young people are healthy) in the knowledge they will help pay for mine when I get old and sick (and by the way, not all old people are sick). This is simply how civilized nations do things.


I want to live somewhere with people like you. Let's run away together.
 
2013-09-30 07:07:49 PM  

DarwiOdrade: At least this way we end up paying less.


You think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it's free.*

*Plagiarized from PJ O'Rourke

unyon: I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you're not suffering from a chronic life threatening illness while having substandard insurance.


No, but I've been broke.

Rincewind53: Right now the law is facing you to pay taxes that went directly into buying me a drink two weekends ago.

Were you forced to buy me a drink?


It appears that it's my moral obligation to society.
 
2013-09-30 07:11:18 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: No, I think the government should appoint a panel of medical professionals to make those decisions


So you will willingly give control of decisions that affect your healthcare to some panel of professionals. It's ok though, because you live a healthy lifestyle so it really won't affect you in any way...it's the people like that guy over there that will be culled.
 
2013-09-30 07:11:58 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: I fear my government more than I fear going broke.


I seriously doubt that but if so, than start a revolution or GTFU.
 
2013-09-30 07:12:19 PM  
I didn't realize that 'Quisling' was a thing in Freeper land these days.

That's f*cking hilarious.
 
2013-09-30 07:12:38 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: It appears that it's my moral obligation to society.


I'd argue that it's your societal, not moral, obligation to pay taxes, and that Congress can then do with those taxes what it pleases, and if you have a problem with that your societal obligation is to attempt to vote them out of office.

The only forcing going on here is in the initial requirement to pay taxes, which you do. You are not more "forced to pay" for anything that those taxes go to. Unless it's a very specific tax that is budgeted only to one specific purpose, like a tax that said "You will pay X percentage of your income and these tax funds will go only to Y government program," which is generally  not how our tax system works and was not part of any debate over a national healthcare system.

So I guess right now you actually  are being forced to pay for other people's healthcare, because you have to pay specific Medicare taxes.
 
2013-09-30 07:13:11 PM  

Mugato: I seriously doubt that but if so, than start a revolution or GTFU.


Do whut?
 
2013-09-30 07:13:25 PM  

birdmanesq: I didn't realize that 'Quisling' was a thing in Freeper land these days.

That's f*cking hilarious.


farking Norwegians, trying to take over our government.
 
2013-09-30 07:15:34 PM  

birdmanesq: I didn't realize that 'Quisling' was a thing in Freeper land these days.


What? Where'd you find that gem?
 
2013-09-30 07:16:04 PM  

Rincewind53: birdmanesq: I didn't realize that 'Quisling' was a thing in Freeper land these days.

That's f*cking hilarious.

farking Norwegians, trying to take over our government.


Huh, was not familer with that term, thanks google
 
2013-09-30 07:16:13 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: I don't have a problem with safety net programs.


You should given you started by asking how much you should be forced to pay for someone else's well being. How much should I be forced to pay for your retirement? For Medicare, that's really almost exactly the same question you posed "how much should I be forced to pay for your health care?" especially when you're old and going to be racking up the bills?

Why is being forced to pay okay if you're paying for old people, but not for people with preexisting conditions, or to people just above the poverty line?
 
2013-09-30 07:16:38 PM  

WhyteRaven74: birdmanesq: I didn't realize that 'Quisling' was a thing in Freeper land these days.

What? Where'd you find that gem?


It's in one of the Freeper links above.

Hilariously misused to describe Peter King.
 
2013-09-30 07:16:50 PM  

WhyteRaven74: birdmanesq: I didn't realize that 'Quisling' was a thing in Freeper land these days.

What? Where'd you find that gem?


http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3073107/posts 

According to Special Report, a cadre of Quislings in the House are planning a revolt against not only the conservative majority, but the leadership as well.
No doubt led by Peter King who recently insinuated he was not going to continue playing 'Cruz' game', this group will vote with the rats to block our next volley to the senate, the hardest one yet for them to reject.
We cannot allow this. If you are a Freeper and think your rep might be involved in this treachery, melt the phone lines and fill the inboxes. No insurrection can be afforded at this point. Time to tranquilize the RINOS.
 
2013-09-30 07:16:58 PM  

Mugato: He was referencing Smokey and the Bandit.


Ah, it's been like 20 years since I've seen that movie, so I don't feel too bad for missing it.
 
2013-09-30 07:18:33 PM  
So what the GOP would kick everyone off of their insurance who signs up tomorrow or got insurance through their parents or though medicare expansion?

Really? It doesn't even make sense. It's too late!
 
2013-09-30 07:19:07 PM  

Bschott007: According to Special Report, a cadre of Quislings in the House are planning a revolt against not only the conservative majority, but the leadership as well.
No doubt led by Peter King who recently insinuated he was not going to continue playing 'Cruz' game', this group will vote with the rats to block our next volley to the senate, the hardest one yet for them to reject.


OMG bwahahahahahhahahaha oh dear god, I might read something funnier this week, but I doubt it.
 
2013-09-30 07:20:04 PM  

birdmanesq: I didn't realize that 'Quisling' was a thing in Freeper land these days.

That's f*cking hilarious.


I heard Michael Savage using it on the radio once. I think he keeps it alive.
 
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