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(SeattlePI)   Move over, baggage check fee and reservation change fees. Welcome, the new Airline Not Being Rude to You Fee   (seattlepi.com) divider line 175
    More: Interesting, Airline Not Being Rude, civility, American Airlines, fees, airlines  
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15856 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Sep 2013 at 2:22 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-30 10:52:31 AM
FSM, I so hate the airlines.

http://www.beapilot.com
 
2013-09-30 12:16:01 PM
"We've moved from takeaways to enhancements," says John F. Thomas of L.E.K. Consulting. "It's all about personalizing the travel experience."

Bullshiat.  It's about making the most amount of money for the least amount of service possible, an charging out the ass for what little service you do offer.

STFU.
 
2013-09-30 01:11:04 PM
FTFA: "letting passengers pay to have an empty seat next to them."

I believe that's called "buying an extra ticket" and it's not exactly a new service.
 
2013-09-30 01:22:25 PM
"The sides are not included in the price of a steak," he says. "Airline ticket prices should reflect the costs incurred by the individual passenger."

Where are you buying your steak?
 
2013-09-30 01:27:31 PM

RedPhoenix122: "The sides are not included in the price of a steak," he says. "Airline ticket prices should reflect the costs incurred by the individual passenger."

Where are you buying your steak?


Well, to be fair, people who work for airlines have demonstrated that they do not fully comprehend food.
 
2013-09-30 01:40:26 PM
"We have massive amounts of data," says Delta CEO Richard Anderson. "We know who you are. We know what your history has been on the airline. We can customize our offerings make millions off all that information we send to the NSA,"
 
2013-09-30 02:07:10 PM

nmrsnr: I believe that's called "buying an extra ticket" and it's not exactly a new service.


I saw that earlier, but I believe instead it is either a bet by the passenger or a conditional fee that if there is an unfilled seat they will move them to be next to the fee-payer.

RedPhoenix122: Where are you buying your steak?


Steakhouses traditionally charge for sides a la carte, even if Outback gives you one with your slab o'beef.

I'm with Subby, though.  United doesn't even give out peanuts or pretzels anymore, and that's just a kick in the nuts given how horrible it is to connect through Dulles (cramped yet sprawling) or O'Hare (O'Delays).  USAir doesn't show movies, nor provide any entertainment system for cross-country flights like CLT-SAN that I flew last week.

Delta gives you drinks, a choice of peanuts/pretzels/Biscoffs, and always has a movie if not on-demand for cross-country flights.  Anything 737-sized or bigger gets entertainment included.
 
2013-09-30 02:25:55 PM

dead: FSM, I so hate the airlines.

http://www.beapilot.com


FSM is such a unwieldy thing to say.  I'd suggest "Holy meatballs".
 
2013-09-30 02:26:05 PM

factoryconnection: nmrsnr: I believe that's called "buying an extra ticket" and it's not exactly a new service.

I saw that earlier, but I believe instead it is either a bet by the passenger or a conditional fee that if there is an unfilled seat they will move them to be next to the fee-payer.

RedPhoenix122: Where are you buying your steak?

Steakhouses traditionally charge for sides a la carte, even if Outback gives you one with your slab o'beef.

I'm with Subby, though.  United doesn't even give out peanuts or pretzels anymore, and that's just a kick in the nuts given how horrible it is to connect through Dulles (cramped yet sprawling) or O'Hare (O'Delays).  USAir doesn't show movies, nor provide any entertainment system for cross-country flights like CLT-SAN that I flew last week.

Delta gives you drinks, a choice of peanuts/pretzels/Biscoffs, and always has a movie if not on-demand for cross-country flights.  Anything 737-sized or bigger gets entertainment included.


On Southwest they hold a basket of various snacks and say "take as many as you'd like"
 
2013-09-30 02:28:04 PM

kidgenius: factoryconnection: nmrsnr: I believe that's called "buying an extra ticket" and it's not exactly a new service.

I saw that earlier, but I believe instead it is either a bet by the passenger or a conditional fee that if there is an unfilled seat they will move them to be next to the fee-payer.

RedPhoenix122: Where are you buying your steak?

Steakhouses traditionally charge for sides a la carte, even if Outback gives you one with your slab o'beef.

I'm with Subby, though.  United doesn't even give out peanuts or pretzels anymore, and that's just a kick in the nuts given how horrible it is to connect through Dulles (cramped yet sprawling) or O'Hare (O'Delays).  USAir doesn't show movies, nor provide any entertainment system for cross-country flights like CLT-SAN that I flew last week.

Delta gives you drinks, a choice of peanuts/pretzels/Biscoffs, and always has a movie if not on-demand for cross-country flights.  Anything 737-sized or bigger gets entertainment included.

On Southwest they hold a basket of various snacks and say "take as many as you'd like"


This.  Southwest airlines is awesome.  They do their job well, and I've never been treated like shiat.
 
2013-09-30 02:30:52 PM

AntonChigger: kidgenius: factoryconnection: nmrsnr: I believe that's called "buying an extra ticket" and it's not exactly a new service.

I saw that earlier, but I believe instead it is either a bet by the passenger or a conditional fee that if there is an unfilled seat they will move them to be next to the fee-payer.

RedPhoenix122: Where are you buying your steak?

Steakhouses traditionally charge for sides a la carte, even if Outback gives you one with your slab o'beef.

I'm with Subby, though.  United doesn't even give out peanuts or pretzels anymore, and that's just a kick in the nuts given how horrible it is to connect through Dulles (cramped yet sprawling) or O'Hare (O'Delays).  USAir doesn't show movies, nor provide any entertainment system for cross-country flights like CLT-SAN that I flew last week.

Delta gives you drinks, a choice of peanuts/pretzels/Biscoffs, and always has a movie if not on-demand for cross-country flights.  Anything 737-sized or bigger gets entertainment included.

On Southwest they hold a basket of various snacks and say "take as many as you'd like"

This.  Southwest airlines is awesome.  They do their job well, and I've never been treated like shiat.


Unless you are specifically into that, in which case, they always stop when you say your safeword.  Mine is "teacups."
 
2013-09-30 02:31:06 PM
I'm ok with all the stuff in the article, and I fly a lot.
 
2013-09-30 02:31:18 PM
I have to say Delta's option for more legroom is awesome (Priority Plus maybe?). It is like an extra $24 per seat, but my 6'4" was actually comfortable on our flights last year. We got a little bit better service and on one flight priority plus only had like 4 people sitting in it (coach was packed). It was an early morning flight so I got to stretch out over an entire row and sleep.
 
2013-09-30 02:31:41 PM
Flying remains cheaper now than it's just about ever been.

But please, keep complaining that too many other people are flying as well or that you wish you could get a 50 cent bag of peanuts.
 
2013-09-30 02:32:30 PM
Meanwhile:

media.northjersey.com
 
2013-09-30 02:34:07 PM

Dafatone: Flying remains cheaper now than it's just about ever been.

But please, keep complaining that too many other people are flying as well or that you wish you could get a 50 cent bag of peanuts.


I will complain about the fact that the seats are too close together for a person my height(exactly average for an adult male), which causes substantial pain for the hours I'm on the plane.  I didn't mind the 10% higher prices.
 
2013-09-30 02:36:55 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Meanwhile:

[media.northjersey.com image 850x566]


Beverage services during takeoff/landing?
 
2013-09-30 02:37:51 PM
Dear Airline CEOs,

Despite all your efforts to make flying the most miserable, soul-crushing, and demeaning experience a traveler can have, these last two decades have been without question - The Golden Years of air travel.

See you soon in coach!  Reserve a middle row seat for me!

Forever yours,

Brap

P.S. I'm a masochist!
 
2013-09-30 02:38:58 PM
Earplugs
Comfortable clothes
Snack
Extra hoodie to act as blanket, pillow or eye-shade
Emergency exit row window booked as soon as on-line seat selection starts.
Boarding pass on phone
All metal in the tray
Be nice to the stewardess


/how I make flying painless and easy and fun
/apparently this is all rocket science to most people
 
2013-09-30 02:41:34 PM

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Earplugs
Comfortable clothes
Snack
Extra hoodie to act as blanket, pillow or eye-shade
Emergency exit row window booked as soon as on-line seat selection starts.
Boarding pass on phone
All metal in the tray
Be nice to the stewardess


/how I make flying painless and easy and fun
/apparently this is all rocket science to most people


They charge extra for Emergency Exit rows now.
 
2013-09-30 02:42:07 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Meanwhile:

[media.northjersey.com image 850x566]


I don't think that plane is high enough.
 
2013-09-30 02:42:12 PM

ikanreed: Dafatone: Flying remains cheaper now than it's just about ever been.

But please, keep complaining that too many other people are flying as well or that you wish you could get a 50 cent bag of peanuts.

I will complain about the fact that the seats are too close together for a person my height(exactly average for an adult male), which causes substantial pain for the hours I'm on the plane.  I didn't mind the 10% higher prices.


You sound fat?
 
2013-09-30 02:43:42 PM

Brockalisk: ikanreed: Dafatone: Flying remains cheaper now than it's just about ever been.

But please, keep complaining that too many other people are flying as well or that you wish you could get a 50 cent bag of peanuts.

I will complain about the fact that the seats are too close together for a person my height(exactly average for an adult male), which causes substantial pain for the hours I'm on the plane.  I didn't mind the 10% higher prices.

You sound fat?


Legs, doofus.
 
2013-09-30 02:43:47 PM
Delta is not bad.  Staff is friendly and if you're nice, always get extra cookies and regular coffee refills.
 
2013-09-30 02:44:13 PM
The world burns approximately 5,000 barrels of jet fuel a day, approx. 1,500,000 pounds.
Jet engines throw out approximately 60% of the fuel, unburned, volatilized.
This waste is deposited in the upper layers of the important part of our atmosphere, daily.

Come fly with me.
 
2013-09-30 02:44:44 PM
The company that I'm currently consulting for only flies United or other Star Alliance carriers (which usually means Swiss Air).   Thankfully, this company only flies business class so I can't complain about the lack of legroom or amenities.   I think the stewardesses on United were delivered by Boeing with the planes and have been programed to be as surly as possible.  They sure knew how to make my last flight (Shanghai to Chicago) very unenjoyable; any request seemed like an inconvenience of Biblical proportions.

Conversely, Swiss Air always seems to have employees that like their jobs.
 
2013-09-30 02:45:28 PM
Anyone ever fly Roots Air during the 30 seconds they were in business?

I flew twice...they gave you a choice between red or white wine with your chicken, fish or steak meal (and it was real food, not something I had to decipher).  They also gave you a warm, wet towel to wash your hands before AND after your meal...and a warm chocolate chip cookie for dessert.

Free in-flight entertainment...and the attendents were dressed so spiffily.

*sigh* Good times.
 
2013-09-30 02:45:34 PM
I got a kick out of "renting Apple iPads preloaded with movies".  Not because it's a bad idea, but because the airlines keep pretending that if you use your phone or a tablet computer you are going to cause the plane to explode or some nonsense.
 
2013-09-30 02:46:07 PM

snocone: The world burns approximately 5,000 barrels of jet fuel a day, approx. 1,500,000 pounds.
Jet engines throw out approximately 60% of the fuel, unburned, volatilized.
This waste is deposited in the upper layers of the important part of our atmosphere, daily.

Come fly with me.


Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand your point is.....................
 
2013-09-30 02:46:45 PM

snocone: The world burns approximately 5,000 barrels of jet fuel a day, approx. 1,500,000 pounds.
Jet engines throw out approximately 60% of the fuel, unburned, volatilized.
This waste is deposited in the upper layers of the important part of our atmosphere, daily.

Come fly with me.


Crap, decimal points, math...
5,000,000 barrels, 1,500,000,000 pounds.
 
2013-09-30 02:46:59 PM
i121.photobucket.com

/New king of the skys
 
2013-09-30 02:47:43 PM

WTFDYW: snocone: The world burns approximately 5,000 barrels of jet fuel a day, approx. 1,500,000 pounds.
Jet engines throw out approximately 60% of the fuel, unburned, volatilized.
This waste is deposited in the upper layers of the important part of our atmosphere, daily.

Come fly with me.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand your point is.....................


Enjoy it while you can.
 
2013-09-30 02:49:37 PM
Still not tricking me into giving them a single penny of my money ever again.

/and yes, I realize they don't care about me or my money.
 
2013-09-30 02:50:08 PM
Try to avoid the sudden loss of altitude fee. It's a killer.
 
2013-09-30 02:50:33 PM
Theres a couple of facts here that everyone glosses over.  The airline industry is pretty interesting when you think about it and I've found it fun to read up on...

- Ticket prices are increasing slower than inflation.  Everyone complains about how much tickets cost but when it comes down to it, they're the cheapest they've ever been.  Its so cheap that often you can fly across the country for cheaper than you could do it in a car, bus, or train... and its much faster and safer.

- Not only is it the cheapest its ever been, but its also the safest and most convenient.  Crashes don't happen very often anymore and there are more flights than ever.

- Airlines are barely profitable.  I read a little while ago that in the last 30 years, the airline industry has shown a net loss.  Its not like these companies are charging all these fees and consistently making money hand over fist.  This is an industry with a tiny margin.  They're getting money from you one way or another, but they're barely getting enough of it to survive.

- With websites like travelocity and expedia, airlines are screwed as far as being able to charge what they like for tickets.  Its become a commodity to consumers and if an airline charges a dollar more than the other, the consumer goes for the cheaper option.  They really can't even control their profits.

- They also can't control their costs, with oil being the highest cost they have.  Just as much as it hits you in the wallet at the gas pump, it hits airlines too.

- I think these fees are great.  The airline is going to get its money one way or another.  I think its great that I don't have to pay for things I don't use.  Why put meals and bag costs on everyone instead of just charging those who use these services?

- Last but not least, consumers are getting exactly what they want.  Everyone complains about the costs of tickets but for the most part always buys the cheapest option.  When you show consistently that cost is more important than anything else, thats what the airlines will cater to.  They make it as cheap as they can by cutting frills and services.  Thats what people pay for.

- Speaking of which, consumers have done a great job of destroying the experience too.  Just a part of what society has become I guess.  I remember back when people treated flying as something special.  You dressed nicely for it.  You were polite to those around you.  You didn't worry about kids kicking the back of your seat for hours.  You didn't worry about people spilling over into your tiny amount of personal space.  People actually formed lines to get on the plane instead of a mad cattle rush.  Airlines didn't cheapen the experience, society did.  Don't complain about the airlines, complain about your fellow passengers.  They're the ones that are doing their best to make it a horrible experience.

- The TSA.  Enough said.
 
2013-09-30 02:51:05 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Meanwhile:

[media.northjersey.com image 850x566]


Ahhh, the train. The cost of flying at the speed of a bus.
 
2013-09-30 02:51:10 PM

GanjSmokr: Still not tricking me into giving them a single penny of my money ever again.

/and yes, I realize they don't care about me or my money.


You were half right.
 
2013-09-30 02:51:18 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Meanwhile:

[media.northjersey.com image 850x566]


you can opt to pay the same price as an airline ticket and arrive ten hours later.
 
2013-09-30 02:52:19 PM

snocone: WTFDYW: snocone: The world burns approximately 5,000 barrels of jet fuel a day, approx. 1,500,000 pounds.
Jet engines throw out approximately 60% of the fuel, unburned, volatilized.
This waste is deposited in the upper layers of the important part of our atmosphere, daily.

Come fly with me.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand your point is.....................

Enjoy it while you can.


So you swim the oceans when you have to get overseas? Do you teleport? Do you ride bicycle on cross country flights? You can't follow thread topic?

/i'm sure the answer to all the above is no
 
2013-09-30 02:52:48 PM
FTA: Once on the ground, they can skip baggage claim, having their luggage delivered directly to their home or office.

Who the hell would opt for this service? They lose my luggage enough as it is. Maybe have my luggage waiting for me and taken to my vehicle.
 
2013-09-30 02:53:07 PM
Flew WestJet for the first time last week.

Everything except one bag, soft drinks, coffee, and a tiny bag of cheese snacks is for a fee.  Every single seat has a surcharge, some more than others.

They also offer free TV, when the "satellite is working".  It wasn't, both ways.  The screen is about a 7 inch screen and cannot be tilted to where a taller person can see it.

There is a channel where you can watch your flight crawl across the continent.  It appears to have been designed in the 1980s.  Most likely outsourced.

If you are over 5 foot 8, it is truly a tormenting experience, as the distance between the back of the seat in front, and teh front of the back of your seat is (much) less than the distance between the back of your back and your knee.  There are no power outlets, so when your smart phone, your only source of diversion, runs out, you cannot recharge.

WestJet's inflight magazine, "Up!" is well, not a very good magazine.  Obviously, good magazines cost.

Of course the seats are way too close together to even think of using a normal laptop.

And of course, the screaming children.

Yes, travel by air is a horrible experience.  All you can think of, as with any form of torture, is let it be over, let it be over.
 
2013-09-30 02:53:15 PM

toraque: RedPhoenix122: "The sides are not included in the price of a steak," he says. "Airline ticket prices should reflect the costs incurred by the individual passenger."

Where are you buying your steak?

Well, to be fair, people who work for airlines have demonstrated that they do not fully comprehend food.


When you buy an airline steak, you get the top and bottom. The sides are extra,
 
2013-09-30 02:53:34 PM

ikanreed: Dafatone: Flying remains cheaper now than it's just about ever been.

But please, keep complaining that too many other people are flying as well or that you wish you could get a 50 cent bag of peanuts.

I will complain about the fact that the seats are too close together for a person my height(exactly average for an adult male), which causes substantial pain for the hours I'm on the plane.  I didn't mind the 10% higher prices.


I'm 6'2" and I've yet to find an airline seat outside of first class that I can sit in comfortably.  My knees touch against the seat in front and I have to hold my arms tightly against my side for the entire trip.  It sucks.
 
2013-09-30 02:53:59 PM

JuggleGeek: I got a kick out of "renting Apple iPads preloaded with movies".  Not because it's a bad idea, but because the airlines keep pretending that if you use your phone or a tablet computer you are going to cause the plane to explode or some nonsense.


The airlines don't have any choice.  Its a Federal Aviation Regulation... a federal law... that they have to comply with.  They are legally forced to make you turn that thing off and put it away or they face fines.  They individual flight attendants face discipline if they don't make you do it.

It has nothing to do with what the airlines thing is necessary or how reasonable it is.  Its solely that its a law they have to follow, whether they like it or not.  They don't have a choice.

Want to be able to use your ipad?  Get the law changed.  Its the government causing this problem, not the airlines.
 
2013-09-30 02:55:33 PM

Trocadero: They charge extra for Emergency Exit rows now.


Not yet on Air Canada or WestJet, the two airlines that I fly most.  Hope their execs aren't reading fark today.

IndyMBA: I think the stewardesses on United were delivered by Boeing with the planes and have been programed to be as surly as possible.


United is the Air Canada "Star Alliance" partner so I've flown them a lot to and from LA.  Totally agree with you on that.  Especially compared to Air Canada (gets a lot of kvetching from Canadian travelers but I've never found them to be too bad) and ESPECIALLY compared to the other Star Alliance carriers I've flown (Air China, Swissair, Lufthansa) the United staff seem to be cartoonishly / sit-comishly bad at their jobs.  Hope their execs ARE reading Fark today.
 
2013-09-30 02:55:56 PM
Part of the problem is with the internet, and all of the ticketing sites, airlines now have to concentrate on offering the lowest published price possible. Even if Delta is superior in every respect to United, someone who flies once or twice a year where loyalty stuff doesn't matter is just going to go with whomever comes up the cheapest in the ballpark time range they want to leave at on kayak or whatever.

20 years ago airlines could afford to differentiate themselves with their services, because when you went to book a flight you either went through a travel agent, or picked up the phone to the airline you thought of first, or had enjoyed flying in the past, to see if they had something in your scheduled time range. Assuming they did, you wouldn't bother calling 5 other carriers to see who could save you $8.

For those of you who say Jet Blue and SouthWest are awesome, you clearly have never flown them when something goes wrong. You really get what you pay for then.

Sure, part of me longs for the day of air travel of old, where people cared how they dressed, you got fed, the drink service was good, etc, but really, how important is that? Even going transcontinental you are only sitting on the plane for 6 hours. Is it so difficult to grab a bite to eat (which even from the food court would be better than it was on the plane in the "good old days") or sit in a seat that is a little smaller than you'd like? BTW, I'm 6'2, and fit just fine in a normal coach seat.

As for baggage fees and stuff like that, if you travel enough where $25 a flight is a concern, there are ways to avoid not paying them, such as carrying an airline credit card, being in their frequent flyer program, etc.

I always get the suspicion that the people who complain the most about this stuff are the same people who get on a flight wearing flip flops, sweat pants, and a Nascar tshirt.
 
2013-09-30 02:58:46 PM

95629: Theres a couple of facts here that everyone glosses over.  The airline industry is pretty interesting when you think about it and I've found it fun to read up on...



Spoken far more eloquently than me. Welcome to totalfark.
 
2013-09-30 02:59:32 PM

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Trocadero: They charge extra for Emergency Exit rows now.

Not yet on Air Canada or WestJet, the two airlines that I fly most.  Hope their execs aren't reading fark today.

IndyMBA: I think the stewardesses on United were delivered by Boeing with the planes and have been programed to be as surly as possible.

United is the Air Canada "Star Alliance" partner so I've flown them a lot to and from LA.  Totally agree with you on that.  Especially compared to Air Canada (gets a lot of kvetching from Canadian travelers but I've never found them to be too bad) and ESPECIALLY compared to the other Star Alliance carriers I've flown (Air China, Swissair, Lufthansa) the United staff seem to be cartoonishly / sit-comishly bad at their jobs.  Hope their execs ARE reading Fark today.


See my previous post.  On Westjet, exit row seats are more expensive.  Or they were a few days ago.
 
2013-09-30 03:00:11 PM
Sounds fine to me.  There's got to be a price point somewhere between $200 and $4,000 for people that are willing to pay for some nice stuff but just can't afford the full business/first experience.
 
2013-09-30 03:01:42 PM

fireclown: Agent Smiths Laugh: Meanwhile:

[media.northjersey.com image 850x566]

you can opt to pay the same price as an airline ticket and arrive ten hours later.


And avoid as much TSA debasement and get better accommodations.

I'm in no hurry.
 
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