trickymoo: I_C_Weener: James!: Democrats: We have to pay rent.Republicans: I refuse to pay rent until you cancel your health insurance.Democrats: What if we get sick?Republicans: fark YOU! TREE OF LIBERTY!! CONSTITUTION!! SOCIALISM!!Democrats: I want a new roommate.Sorta. Mine would be more along the lines ofRepublicans: I want to pay the rent, but you bought an insurance plan that we can't afford to pay AND pay rent.Democrats: We already bought it, quit whining.Republicans: Sorry. We can't pay that and this and keep going this way.Democrats: Why not? Its not our money.If you prefer your scenario more, it neglects to mention that this insurance policy has already been written into the lease and shall be upheld.
sprawl15: Mike_LowELL: Okay guys, so I'm playing Civilization V and I just researched Obamacare. Now all my cities are dying from sickness. Help.[i.imgur.com image 585x299]
sprawl15: serious question
hasty ambush: DeaH: cman: DeaH: It's not negotiation unless both sides want opposite things. The Democrats want to avoid hurting the economy, so they want to raise the debt ceiling. If the Republicans think that's negotiable, then they want to harm the American economy. If that's what they want, who wants to give them anything?They don't believe it will hurt the economyIt certainly hurt the economy the last time they didn't automatically raise the debt ceiling. The Republicans, as a whole, just cannot be that stupid, but, if they really are, then the Democrats only response can be a demand for the mass resignation of all Republicans.Raise the debt ceiling but get some fiscal responsibility behind it. Democrats just want government with a blank check and they are willing to wreck thing to get it. The Democrats are the ones who should resignLast shutdown was for 28 days and according to BBC radio this morning it was a pinprick on the overall economy.
Soup4Bonnie: haha. Shut up!
Soup4Bonnie: Why don't you like Pelosi's idea?
I_C_Weener: trickymoo: I_C_Weener:"If you prefer another spending cut target, a non-healthcare one, name the target!"
Bontesla: firefly212: Bontesla: firefly212: parasol: floor:Then the GOP sends the nation into default and there is no Executive Branch fix. The world economy goes into a recession that makes the Depression look good. Not just the US economy the global economy. The default wold destroy the value of US Government bonds, so any government or entity holding them would now loose that value too. The simple math is take the current total debt and subtract that amount from the global economy.Bontelsa : (link)ty you - for the terror and the infoThere is an executive branch fix, namely, the constitutionSection 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.Congress can't authorize spending on the nations credit, then question whether or not it needs to pay those bills.The Republicans in the House have demonstrated, on multiple occasions, their ignorance of the Constitution.Further - the Constitution is only as powerful as we allow it to be. When our own government decides to ignore it - we're in big trouble.I'm saying, if the President, under the authority of the constitution, authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury and the Chair of the Federal Reserve, to acknowledge the debts already authorized by congress via their approval of bills, he can end this seemingly annual idiocy and effectively leave the GOP with a squirt gun for their hostage-taking scenario.And he's already rejected that idea.
Peki: Senate is about to kill the bill, and House R plan is to attach repeal of the individual mandate to the CR.Here we go!
odinsposse: The Senate should keep that and attach another rider that puts all uninsured people on Medicare. Single Payer here we come!
firefly212: Push come to shove, when the debt limit comes, and we're hours from sending the whole Global Economy into a tailspin, that idea may look a lot better to him.
KellyX: sprawl15: Mike_LowELL: Okay guys, so I'm playing Civilization V and I just researched Obamacare. Now all my cities are dying from sickness. Help.[i.imgur.com image 585x299][scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x540]
quizzical: The Senate just voted to kill the House's CR bill that had the Obamacare attachments. Your move again, House.
LouDobbsAwaaaay: firefly212: Push come to shove, when the debt limit comes, and we're hours from sending the whole Global Economy into a tailspin, that idea may look a lot better to him.I don't think he has the stones to do it. He's a wimp.
Publikwerks: LouDobbsAwaaaay: firefly212: Push come to shove, when the debt limit comes, and we're hours from sending the whole Global Economy into a tailspin, that idea may look a lot better to him.I don't think he has the stones to do it. He's a wimp.Hell, I would have the coin minted, and bring it to the negotiations. Tell them to convince me NOT to walk over to the fed and deposit it, and start a kitchen timer for 30 minutes.
sprawl15: Practically that kind of thing will obviously make a total shiatshow, but constitutionally speaking it's the most sound.
quizzical: Harry Reid speaking now. "The votes are there to pass a clean CR."
sprawl15: Because it overturns a huge amount of precedent on a topic that is probably not judicable due to the inherent contradictory language in the Constitution. Congress has sole power to spend, Congress has sole power to borrow, they are separate powers, and then full faith credit etc. Strictly speaking, too, the entirety of the issue lies with Congress - not the Executive. It's their contradictory pie and they should figure a way out of it.Practically that kind of thing will obviously make a total shiatshow, but constitutionally speaking it's the most sound.
AurizenDarkstar: quizzical: Harry Reid speaking now. "The votes are there to pass a clean CR."Which would be nice, if Boehner had the stones to stand up to the Tea Party caucus and work with the Dems to do so. As such, I'm giving it at least a 95% chance that we see a shutdown at midnight. He's too damn scared about getting primaried next year, and the TeaTards aren't going to back down an inch.I just wonder how much worse it will get if we ARE still under a shutdown when the debt ceiling fight comes around.
griff61: The 14th amendment supercedes whatever came before it.
Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.
sprawl15: griff61: The 14th amendment supercedes whatever came before it.What repealing an explicitly enumerated portion of the Constitution may look like:Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.
griff61: Correct, however, the 14th does not repeal an amendment.
Type_Hard: Looks like the House GOP is going to take another swing at Obamacare in the next round...Shutdown looms as House GOP tries again on ObamaCare/good luck with that..
sprawl15: griff61: Correct, however, the 14th does not repeal an amendment.Your interpretation is that the 14th repeals a portion of Article 1, Section 8 which specifically enumerates the power to borrow as a separate power from the power to spend and assigns both to Congress.Without language to support such a claim.but no its cool and all that you know what amendments are keep going
Peki: There they went. Rs are wanting a one-year delay of the individual mandate.
griff61: No, I said that the 14th supercedes
ClavellBCMI: And Obama just re-stated everything the reasonable Farkers have been saying about this situation during his news conference, and basically told Boehner to tell the Tehadists to STFU, GTFO, and do the right thing for the country, not the party. Which, of course, will be ignored because party before country as far as the GOP is concerned.
Ninety Nine Percent: Remember me????
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