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(Talking Points Memo)   Will the Senate override the house and pass the health care reform bill as written? Will the Tea Party politicians go through with the threatened shutdown? We find out today. It's your official Government Shutdown Threat thread   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 571
    More: PSA, Senate, Reform Act, U.S. government, healthcare reform, veto override, shut downs, OK'd, rectitude  
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1046 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Sep 2013 at 8:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-30 01:59:33 PM  

trickymoo: I_C_Weener: James!: Democrats: We have to pay rent.
Republicans: I refuse to pay rent until you cancel your health insurance.
Democrats: What if we get sick?
Republicans: fark YOU! TREE OF LIBERTY!! CONSTITUTION!! SOCIALISM!!
Democrats: I want a new roommate.

Sorta.  Mine would be more along the lines of

Republicans:  I want to pay the rent, but you bought an insurance plan that we can't afford to pay AND pay rent.
Democrats:  We already bought it, quit whining.
Republicans:  Sorry.  We can't pay that and this and keep going this way.
Democrats:  Why not?  Its not our money.

If you prefer your scenario more, it neglects to mention that this insurance policy has already been written into the lease and shall be upheld.


lh4.googleusercontent.com

"If you prefer another spending cut target, a non-healthcare one, name the target!"
 
2013-09-30 01:59:48 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-30 02:03:08 PM  

sprawl15: Mike_LowELL: Okay guys, so I'm playing Civilization V and I just researched Obamacare.  Now all my cities are dying from sickness.  Help.

[i.imgur.com image 585x299]


scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-09-30 02:07:05 PM  
Remember me????

www.killthehydra.com
 
2013-09-30 02:08:25 PM  

sprawl15: serious question


haha.  Shut up!  I'm working!  and eating and Farking and trying to watch CSpan.

Ok.  Why don't you like Pelosi's idea?
 
2013-09-30 02:15:37 PM  

hasty ambush: DeaH: cman: DeaH: It's not negotiation unless both sides want opposite things. The Democrats want to avoid hurting the economy, so they want to raise the debt ceiling. If the Republicans think that's negotiable, then they want to harm the American economy. If that's what they want, who wants to give them anything?

They don't believe it will hurt the economy

It certainly hurt the economy the last time they didn't automatically raise the debt ceiling. The Republicans, as a whole, just cannot be that stupid, but, if they really are, then the Democrats only response can be a demand for the mass resignation of all Republicans.


Raise the debt ceiling but get some fiscal responsibility behind it.  Democrats just want government with a blank check and they are willing to wreck thing to get it.  The Democrats are the ones who should resign


Last shutdown was for 28 days and according to BBC radio this morning it was a pinprick on the overall  economy.


The last time the Republicans played games with the debt ceiling, it lowered America's credit rating. That means our money now costs all of us more. The fact that the Republicans keep trying to hold the debt ceiling hostage shows that we need to stop them in their tracks once and for all. They do not have America's best interest at heart. They are betting against America, and they just keep doing it. If they want a more responsible budget, then they should produce one. (And this is a good place to point out that the budgets they do produce depend on savings from Obamacare, so, at least on some level, they know Obamacare is good for America, too.) The debt ceiling is not the place they should be doing this.

Al Qaeda attacked America, choosing the World Trade Towers in an effort to cripple the American economy. They got three buildings and the lives of nearly 3000 Americans, but they did not get our economy. Right now, Al Qaeda is looking at the Republican Party and saying, "Oh, so THAT'S how you bring down American!" They wish they were the Republican Party. The Republican Party has consistently shown it cares nothing for the best interests of American. In the last dozen years, it has done more to hurt America and its economy than any stated enemy, foreign or domestic. They need to go away, so they can be replaced with a party that is something besides the enemy within.
 
2013-09-30 02:17:17 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: haha. Shut up!


pshh

Soup4Bonnie: Why don't you like Pelosi's idea?


Because it overturns a huge amount of precedent on a topic that is probably not judicable due to the inherent contradictory language in the Constitution. Congress has sole power to spend, Congress has sole power to borrow, they are separate powers, and then full faith credit etc. Strictly speaking, too, the entirety of the issue lies with Congress - not the Executive. It's their contradictory pie and they should figure a way out of it.

Practically that kind of thing will obviously make a total shiatshow, but constitutionally speaking it's the most sound.
 
2013-09-30 02:18:43 PM  

I_C_Weener: trickymoo: I_C_Weener:

"If you prefer another spending cut target, a non-healthcare one, name the target!"


I'm very glad that you picked Tarkin; You want to show off your perceived power and will blow up any planet/ item that would make a big flashy boom, regardless of repercussions or public opinion.

The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the [democratically elected] Force
 
2013-09-30 02:18:51 PM  
Senate is about to kill the bill, and House R plan is to attach repeal of the individual mandate to the CR.

Here we go!
 
2013-09-30 02:19:26 PM  
The Senate just voted to kill the House's CR bill that had the Obamacare attachments.  Your move again, House.
 
2013-09-30 02:21:05 PM  

Bontesla: firefly212: Bontesla: firefly212: parasol: floor:
Then the GOP sends the nation into default and there is no Executive Branch fix. The world economy goes into a recession that makes the Depression look good. Not just the US economy the global economy. The default wold destroy the value of US Government bonds, so any government or entity holding them would now loose that value too. The simple math is take the current total debt and subtract that amount from the global economy.

Bontelsa : (link)

ty you - for the terror and the info

There is an executive branch fix, namely, the constitution

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

Congress can't authorize spending on the nations credit, then question whether or not it needs to pay those bills.

The Republicans in the House have demonstrated, on multiple occasions, their ignorance of the Constitution.

Further - the Constitution is only as powerful as we allow it to be. When our own government decides to ignore it - we're in big trouble.

I'm saying, if the President, under the authority of the constitution, authorizes the Secretary of the Treasury and the Chair of the Federal Reserve, to acknowledge the debts already authorized by congress via their approval of bills, he can end this seemingly annual idiocy and effectively leave the GOP with a squirt gun for their hostage-taking scenario.

And he's already rejected that idea.


IDGAF what he rejects, the constitution is clear, and his rejection didn't/doesn't change that. Push come to shove, when the debt limit comes, and we're hours from sending the whole Global Economy into a tailspin, that idea may look a lot better to him.
 
2013-09-30 02:21:24 PM  

Peki: Senate is about to kill the bill, and House R plan is to attach repeal of the individual mandate to the CR.

Here we go!


The Senate should keep that and attach another rider that puts all uninsured people on Medicare. Single Payer here we come!
 
2013-09-30 02:23:10 PM  

odinsposse: The Senate should keep that and attach another rider that puts all uninsured people on Medicare. Single Payer here we come!


yup! that would be awesome.

/besides, the individual mandate was a republican idea anyway.
 
2013-09-30 02:23:51 PM  

firefly212: Push come to shove, when the debt limit comes, and we're hours from sending the whole Global Economy into a tailspin, that idea may look a lot better to him.


I don't think he has the stones to do it.  He's a wimp.
 
2013-09-30 02:24:33 PM  

KellyX: sprawl15: Mike_LowELL: Okay guys, so I'm playing Civilization V and I just researched Obamacare.  Now all my cities are dying from sickness.  Help.

[i.imgur.com image 585x299]

[scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x540]


Great game, or greatest game?  I was playing it not 30 minutes ago!  Playing Pachacuti.
 
2013-09-30 02:27:35 PM  

quizzical: The Senate just voted to kill the House's CR bill that had the Obamacare attachments.  Your move again, House.


How many times is that now? I lost track. But I'm sure that next time will be the time it totally works.
 
2013-09-30 02:27:58 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: firefly212: Push come to shove, when the debt limit comes, and we're hours from sending the whole Global Economy into a tailspin, that idea may look a lot better to him.

I don't think he has the stones to do it.  He's a wimp.


Hell, I would have the coin minted, and bring it to the negotiations. Tell them to convince me NOT to walk over to the fed and deposit it, and start a kitchen timer for 30 minutes.
 
2013-09-30 02:31:20 PM  

Publikwerks: LouDobbsAwaaaay: firefly212: Push come to shove, when the debt limit comes, and we're hours from sending the whole Global Economy into a tailspin, that idea may look a lot better to him.

I don't think he has the stones to do it.  He's a wimp.

Hell, I would have the coin minted, and bring it to the negotiations. Tell them to convince me NOT to walk over to the fed and deposit it, and start a kitchen timer for 30 minutes.


Just think of the collector's value alone! The largest and only coin like it in existence. Provided that they never remove it from the box of course.
 
2013-09-30 02:38:16 PM  
Harry Reid speaking now.  "The votes are there to pass a clean CR."
 
2013-09-30 02:41:15 PM  

sprawl15: Practically that kind of thing will obviously make a total shiatshow, but constitutionally speaking it's the most sound.


Thanks.  I agree.  It just depresses me.
 
2013-09-30 02:41:35 PM  

quizzical: Harry Reid speaking now.  "The votes are there to pass a clean CR."


Which would be nice, if Boehner had the stones to stand up to the Tea Party caucus and work with the Dems to do so.  As such, I'm giving it at least a 95% chance that we see a shutdown at midnight.  He's too damn scared about getting primaried next year, and the TeaTards aren't going to back down an inch.

I just wonder how much worse it will get if we ARE still under a shutdown when the debt ceiling fight comes around.
 
2013-09-30 02:42:08 PM  

sprawl15: Because it overturns a huge amount of precedent on a topic that is probably not judicable due to the inherent contradictory language in the Constitution. Congress has sole power to spend, Congress has sole power to borrow, they are separate powers, and then full faith credit etc. Strictly speaking, too, the entirety of the issue lies with Congress - not the Executive. It's their contradictory pie and they should figure a way out of it.

Practically that kind of thing will obviously make a total shiatshow, but constitutionally speaking it's the most sound.


Not really contradictory (IMHO). The 14th amendment supercedes whatever came before it. It is a question of whether or not he has the cojones when the 17th rolls around and the TEA party monkeys are still playing games.
 
2013-09-30 02:44:01 PM  
so, here's how i picture the relationship of boehner, Tea Partiers, and america.
Imagine the moving Saving Private Ryan.  Opham (sp) was tasked at the end with carrying ammunition around.  At one point, there is a german soldier wrestling around with an american soldier.  Opham could have easily gone in, killed the german soldier and america would have been okay.  He didn't, and the american soldier was killed.
Your cast of characters:
Opham - Boehner.  Too afraid to kill the german
German soldier - Tea Partiers
American soldiers - Amurrica.

I can't get angry at boehner.  he's too scared and weak to do anything.
 
2013-09-30 02:48:35 PM  

AurizenDarkstar: quizzical: Harry Reid speaking now.  "The votes are there to pass a clean CR."

Which would be nice, if Boehner had the stones to stand up to the Tea Party caucus and work with the Dems to do so.  As such, I'm giving it at least a 95% chance that we see a shutdown at midnight.  He's too damn scared about getting primaried next year, and the TeaTards aren't going to back down an inch.

I just wonder how much worse it will get if we ARE still under a shutdown when the debt ceiling fight comes around.


Reid, Dick Durban, and Chuck Schumer are holding a presser now about that topic.  Reid read some quotes from various House Republicans that have accumulated over the last few days as to how those members were ready to vote for a clean CR.  Durban called out the internal conflict in the Republican party, but said Boehner had a responsibility to the country as a whole.  Schumer is affirming the resolve of the Democratic party in the face of strong arm tactics, stating that giving in on this issue would just encourage the Republicans to do it again and again and again.  At the end of which he also called on Boehner to pass the clean CR.
 
2013-09-30 03:21:33 PM  

griff61: The 14th amendment supercedes whatever came before it.


What repealing an explicitly enumerated portion of the Constitution may look like:
Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.
 
2013-09-30 03:23:59 PM  
I have a feeling a clean CR is going to be passed.  Mostly because that would mean I have to take this stupid trip to Texas on Friday.

Thanks a lot, Congress!
 
2013-09-30 03:30:35 PM  
Deep Thoughts With Ducklord Dept.: Anyone else notice that "Aristocles" rhymes with "TenPoundsOfCheese?"

On the budget front: If this was an episode of West Wing, the President would work out a clever last second deal with the Speaker to turn on the Tea Party whackdoodles, with public assurances that the House Democrats would throw their support behind his continued Speakership until after the 2014 elections.  The Speaker gets to look statesmanlike, the House Democrats get to look reasonable, and the whackdoodles get head explosions.

I suspect the actual endgame will be far less elegant.
 
2013-09-30 03:34:53 PM  

sprawl15: griff61: The 14th amendment supercedes whatever came before it.

What repealing an explicitly enumerated portion of the Constitution may look like:Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.


Correct, however, the 14th does not repeal an amendment.
 
2013-09-30 03:38:37 PM  

griff61: Correct, however, the 14th does not repeal an amendment.


Your interpretation is that the 14th repeals a portion of Article 1, Section 8 which specifically enumerates the power to borrow as a separate power from the power to spend and assigns both to Congress.

Without language to support such a claim.

but no its cool and all that you know what amendments are keep going
 
2013-09-30 03:40:17 PM  
Looks like the House GOP is going to take another swing at Obamacare in the next round...

Shutdown looms as House GOP tries again on ObamaCare

/good luck with that..
 
2013-09-30 03:41:21 PM  

Type_Hard: Looks like the House GOP is going to take another swing at Obamacare in the next round...

Shutdown looms as House GOP tries again on ObamaCare

/good luck with that..


What do they call doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
 
2013-09-30 03:43:32 PM  

Type_Hard: Looks like the House GOP is going to take another swing at Obamacare in the next round...

Shutdown looms as House GOP tries again on ObamaCare

/good luck with that..


At this point it seems like a game of hot potato.  Who has the bill when midnight hits so that the other house can point blame.
 
2013-09-30 03:43:56 PM  
I'm currently watching C-SPAN and from what I can tell the House GOP is still in committee. One of the channels right now is "House GOP Stakeout" which is just a camera hanging around in the hallway waiting for the House GOP to finish their closed door session.

What comes out of that meeting (if that's what is going on) will determine whether or not there is a shutdown. All they have to do is pass a clean CR, admit defeat to their base*, and lick their wounds over the next few days. Otherwise, it's a legitimate shutdown.

*ha! like that will ever happen
 
2013-09-30 03:45:29 PM  

sprawl15: griff61: Correct, however, the 14th does not repeal an amendment.

Your interpretation is that the 14th repeals a portion of Article 1, Section 8 which specifically enumerates the power to borrow as a separate power from the power to spend and assigns both to Congress.

Without language to support such a claim.

but no its cool and all that you know what amendments are keep going


No, I said that the 14th supercedes. I never even used the word repeal
 
2013-09-30 03:46:46 PM  
There they went. Rs are wanting a one-year delay of the individual mandate.
 
2013-09-30 03:47:41 PM  

Peki: There they went. Rs are wanting a one-year delay of the individual mandate.


and I want to get more blow jobs in my life.  I'm doubtful either will happen.
 
2013-09-30 03:48:24 PM  
8 hours 12 minutes
 
2013-09-30 03:52:27 PM  

griff61: No, I said that the 14th supercedes


oh that changes everything if its just supercede it doesnt need to be specific or clear that it is superceding explicit enumeration

you win this round batman
 
2013-09-30 03:55:34 PM  

Publikwerks: LouDobbsAwaaaay: firefly212: Push come to shove, when the debt limit comes, and we're hours from sending the whole Global Economy into a tailspin, that idea may look a lot better to him.

I don't think he has the stones to do it.  He's a wimp.

Hell, I would have the coin minted, and bring it to the negotiations. Tell them to convince me NOT to walk over to the fed and deposit it, and start a kitchen timer for 30 minutes.


This is exactly how it should go.  The GOP is incapable of doing their job without a babysitter.  So give them a choice: (1) come to the table and act like adults, and come to a compromise that both sides can agree on, or (2) act like babies, the coin drops in, and you get nothing.  If they want to scream and cry and pound their fists in a tantrum, then give them something to cry about.
 
2013-09-30 03:57:59 PM  
Sen Lamar Alexander:

I don't want to shut down the government!  I just want to reform the health care law by examining it line by line to see if we can find a way to cut costs before we continue to fund the government.
 
2013-09-30 04:15:26 PM  
i think i may be losing my mind

The GOP's answer to "pass a clean bill" is "what we want is to make ACA fair to everyone - by delaying the individual mandate"?

Since POTUS has agreed to delay for small business and unions - delaying the individual mandate for individuals isn't "fair" - it guts the act.
 
2013-09-30 04:27:12 PM  
Ted Cruz is speaking in the Senate right now, and he's still saying this is all the fault of the Democrats.  And he's butthurt that Reid called him the "Chief Senate Rabble-rouser."
 
2013-09-30 04:28:19 PM  
Ted Cruz is currently stumping derp on the Senate floor.

"What happens to millions of young college graduates who can't get health care because they can't get employment?"

Answer to the dumbfark: If they are under 26 they will be covered under their parents' plan.

Thanks to Obamacare.

This is not a man with any interest in honest discussion. His speech (going on right now) is the most dishonest argument I've heard. And that comes after having listened to Lindsay Graham.
 
2013-09-30 04:28:36 PM  
At times like this, I wish we, like the British parliament, encouraged booing at people who are bullshiatting.
 
2013-09-30 04:38:39 PM  
This is awesome entertainment. If only they had no power to screw up the whole world.
 
2013-09-30 04:45:04 PM  
I love Bernie Sanders.
 
2013-09-30 05:00:29 PM  
As always, Senator Sanders kicked total arse on the Senate floor. "This is not about the health care act, this is about legislating via blackmail and hostage taking." A paraphrase, "If we yield to these tactics now, they will not stop in the future. The far right has been clear for decades about hating Social Security and Medicare. If they can succeed in subverting the legislative process with blackmail and hostage taking, then the door is wide open for them to gut the social safety via those same means. This madness has to be stopped now, or else we can look forward to this same approach year after year after year."

I may not always listen to what politicians have to say, but when I do, I listen to Bernie Sanders.
 
2013-09-30 05:16:57 PM  
And Obama just re-stated everything the reasonable Farkers have been saying about this situation during his news conference, and basically told Boehner to tell the Tehadists to STFU, GTFO, and do the right thing for the country, not the party. Which, of course, will be ignored because party before country as far as the GOP is concerned.
 
2013-09-30 05:26:11 PM  

ClavellBCMI: And Obama just re-stated everything the reasonable Farkers have been saying about this situation during his news conference, and basically told Boehner to tell the Tehadists to STFU, GTFO, and do the right thing for the country, not the party. Which, of course, will be ignored because party before country as far as the GOP is concerned.


And the Liberal Media will cover both sides of the argument as if they're equally reasonable and responsible in the context of American politics.

:(
 
2013-09-30 05:28:46 PM  

Ninety Nine Percent: Remember me????


img.fark.net

If only Obama had obliged the Republicans with a sex scandal. Then they wouldn't have to try to destroy the entire country just to get one guy.
 
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