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(Talking Points Memo)   Will the Senate override the house and pass the health care reform bill as written? Will the Tea Party politicians go through with the threatened shutdown? We find out today. It's your official Government Shutdown Threat thread   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 605
    More: PSA, Senate, Reform Act, U.S. government, healthcare reform, veto override, shut downs, OK'd, rectitude  
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1045 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Sep 2013 at 8:07 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-30 08:50:00 AM

badhatharry: THE TEA PARTY IS NOT THREATENING SHUT DOWN! THEY DON'T WANT A SHUTDOWN! THEY WANT TO NEGOTIATE!

THE DEMOCRATS WANT THE SHUT DOWN! THEY REFUSE TO NEGOTIATE!


I can't take it anymore

How will Putin bail Obama out of this red line?

 
2013-09-30 08:50:02 AM
Point of clarification, our military get "paid," but if this is like the shutdown in the Clinton years, the people who actually do the processing are civis, considered non-essential, so there's nobody there to process/approve the paychecks.
 
2013-09-30 08:50:44 AM

Phineas: Anything that creates Democrat butthurt is OK with me.


STICKING IT TO THE LIBSSince 1980, the ONLY thing that matters.

 
2013-09-30 08:51:32 AM
Damn.  Format-pwned.
 
2013-09-30 08:51:36 AM

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Dems want shutdown. GOP wants shutdown. It's a win-win.


Free paid vacation!
 
2013-09-30 08:51:39 AM

badhatharry: THE TEA PARTY IS NOT THREATENING SHUT DOWN! THEY DON'T WANT A SHUTDOWN! THEY WANT TO NEGOTIATE!

THE DEMOCRATS WANT THE SHUT DOWN! THEY REFUSE TO NEGOTIATE!


I can't take it anymore


There's nothing to negotiate.
 
2013-09-30 08:52:14 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: I've resigned myself to the understanding that a significant fraction of the House see Mad Max II: Beyond Thunderdome as an acceptable alternative to a successful and working health care system.


Whereas the rest of us are starting to think that Mad Max II: Beyond Thunderdome may be a viable alternative to Congress.
 
2013-09-30 08:54:04 AM
Teahadists: "The ACA is such a failure that we must stop it before it starts!!!!"

You lost. Your lobbyist corporate cronies lost. Stfu.
 
2013-09-30 08:54:06 AM
The whole point of trying to force House Republicans to approve the Senate-approved bill in the first place was so the Democrats could blame them for the economic consequences of the debt ceiling increase. They expected to be able to force the teabaggers to back down, only for the teabaggers to reply, "No. YOU move."

/this is what government looks like when a third party with enough political power to challenge the other two develops
//FARK independents should have been more careful what they wished for
 
2013-09-30 08:54:21 AM
Shiat, let's just disband the entire government and try anarchy for awhile.

/makes as much sense as what's actually going on now
 
2013-09-30 08:55:12 AM

Phineas: EyeballKid: Phineas: Anything that creates Democrat butthurt is OK with me.

^^^^^^^^ Hey, look everybody, it's part of the problem!!!!  ^^^^^^^^^

If the problem is 'refusing to compromise with Socialists'  then yes, I am part of the problem.  If you're quiet, you can hear them singing...

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина - сила народная
Нас к торжеству Коммунизма ведёт


Communism and Socialism are not always mutually exclusive

Communism is an extreme leftist ideology based upon authoritarian principles of newspeak and human reprogramming. Socialism has a large spectrum that encompasses far more than that. Most Socialists are Democratic Socialists; they are people who like the ballot box and like having human rights.

Yes, Communists did bad shiat in the name of Socialism. Also, Tim McVeigh killed children in the name of God. So I guess that means that everyone who worships God likes killing children, too.
 
2013-09-30 08:55:51 AM

Mike_LowELL: Okay guys, so I'm playing Civilization V and I just researched Obamacare.  Now all my cities are dying from sickness.  Help.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-30 08:56:28 AM

Aristocles: ransack.: Turfshoe: Is this the Breaking Bad thread?

I DIDN'T WATCH IT YET SILENCE

Holy crap, dude or dudette! You need to watch it immediately or isolate yourself.

Even Ann Coulter was singing praise for Breaking Bad on twitter last night... and if someone like Ann Coulter is talking about popculture, you know everyone and their mothers are too!


I'm on Season 1, episode 3.

The road has not been easy.
 
2013-09-30 08:57:08 AM
So this is when the when the Tea Party blows up the death star by shooting itself in the head?
 
2013-09-30 08:57:10 AM

born_yesterday: Right now, I don't know. There is no way the House bill passes. Which means they have to vote on the Senate version. I would have thought this was likely, until the House voted against the first Senate bill so decisively.


The only rational course of action is for Boehner and the non-extremist part of his party along with the Democrats in the House to pass a clean CR -- you know, the way things have always been done in the past when a small rump of extremists wasn't holding the entire country hostage to achieve a goal they couldn't achieve through democratic means.

And yes, I do realize how laughably improbable that is.
 
2013-09-30 08:57:16 AM

A Terrible Human: Thunderpipes: Going to be hilarious when the few Democrats who actually work get their new health care bills.

I say we let all the people making under 1 million a year die. Cut off all services,let the poors riot while the job creators are safe in their mansions with security guards. Then after that everything will be just fine.


Unless those security guards are getting paid $1M per year or more, I don't think you thought your plan all the way through...
=Smidge=
 
2013-09-30 08:58:06 AM

OlderGuy: Brick-House: phrawgh: I certainly hope it is not too early to blame Obama!

How can we blame BOB, all he's done is play golf.

He is not a leader, he doesn't like America, he is out to destroy America, and he is doing it..  Our only hope now is that true Americans like Ted Cruz and the Conservative Party are joined by fellow Americans who are fed up with the antics of the Old Guard ( both parties) and throw them out.  Dump Obamacare and Obama, freeze the debt limit, and stop the reckless spending.  The Sleeping Giant better get off it's ass and get it's priorities in order, and do what needs to be done... the time is NOW !  Use it or lose it..   If obamacare is enacted, we,re done.  the government will be sleeping in our beds at night, looting our bank accounts, fully dictating how we live.. We are swirling the drain, people... get off your ass and put in the plug !


But Ted Cruz is Canadian. We've seen his birth certificate.
 
2013-09-30 08:58:27 AM

Aristocles: QueenMamaBee: Aristocles: QueenMamaBee: Aristocles: QueenMamaBee: Aristocles: hammer85: I love these assholes toying with my livelihood.  Because we all know its not like government employees have bills to pay or anything.

You're gonna get paid retroactively... you do know this, right?

That doesn't pay the bills that are due during the shutdown... you do know that, right?

Well, maybe you should call your state representatives and BOB and tell them to pass the farking bill!

Thomas Massie can go fark himself.

Same for my Senate-asshats Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell.

It sounds like you've got some real PATRIOTS looking out for you... why not call/email/write the White House and let BOB (or an intern) know how you feel about the govt shut down? Are you a govt employee?

No, I'm a healthcare employee. I've emailed Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell numerous times and I get the standard form email "I'm super smart and I know everything.... now be quiet citizen!"

Ah.. so you don't mind the shut down so much, you just want Obamacare to proceed unscathed?


Can you tell me exactly HOW more people having insurance, meaning fewer people who are unable to pay their bills, can be BAD for my business?

I actually researched (*gasp*) costs for the ACA for a friend of mine who was biatching about it. He was recently laid off from the hospital I work in, and he'd actually pay LESS through the ACA than he paid for the crappy insurance plan we have here, and that was through the federal government. Now that I've looked at Ky's plans...it's an even better deal.

Again... how is healthcare a worse use of government money than the millions in "vote for me" money given by the federal government (tacked onto a bill by darling Thomas Massie) to my city for a farking boat-ramp renovation for a stage that is used once a year? I'd rather have people insured and cut out the other waste.
 
2013-09-30 08:58:45 AM

sprawl15: [i.imgur.com image 585x299]


On it.  I also moved the capital from Washington to Wasilla to be safe.  Can't take any chances here.
 
2013-09-30 08:59:22 AM
Trying to read comments anywhere this morning, (not just Fark), without running into a BB spoiler, is like riding a unicycle through a minefield blindfolded.

/Bet the assholes are all Democrats.

//Why does Fark show as mispelled?
 
2013-09-30 08:59:32 AM

Leader O'Cola: What is the most stupid and painful possible outcome?  That is what we will do.

Markets overseas already seem to be pricing it in.  TP voters will rejoice, as their 401k's plummet (yeh, most of them don't have 401ks to begin with. They learned from their hero Rand to live off SS anyways)


I'm totally against a shutdown.

But I have set up stock alerts for when my favorite picks come tumbling down. I shall buy everything.
 
2013-09-30 09:00:10 AM

FC Exile: Trying to read comments anywhere this morning, (not just Fark), without running into a BB spoiler, is like riding a unicycle through a minefield blindfolded.

/Bet the assholes are all Democrats.

//Why does Fark show as mispelled?


It was his sled.
 
2013-09-30 09:02:30 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Monkeyhouse Zendo: You're going to love the packs of desperate retirees roaming the streets in search of food and Geritol when their Social Security check doesn't get paid.

SS checks still get cut. That's not part of what get shut down.


I know, I was mostly responding to the "government doesn't do anything" comment. There's a dark and hungry part of my that longs to see the government fully shut down for a month or two if only to give everyone a firmer grasp of what our government actually does.
 
2013-09-30 09:02:53 AM

derpy: I'm really just posting to say that I was here.

also:This video is the best explanation I've yet seen of what Obamacare is and what it does and how it affects you.


This should be required watching.
 
2013-09-30 09:04:26 AM

Publikwerks: sprawl15: ransack.: Turfshoe: Is this the Breaking Bad thread?

I DIDN'T WATCH IT YET SILENCE

METH NAZIS KILL DUMBLEDORE

[cdn7.nflximg.net image 284x405]


My Friend's sister is in that movie.  True story.
 
2013-09-30 09:04:54 AM

Publikwerks: This is such a bad move by the GOP. There is no way the Senate even looks at the House bill, and polls show that people are going to blame the GOP for the shutdown. And a majority of Americans are ambivalent about the ACA. So if they win, they don't win anything from moderates. And if they force the shutdown, they lose big.

Meanwhile, Democrats can just sit back and watch. They have passed a clean CR, so they can say "we've done our part" and walk away. They win if the House caves, they win if the House doesn't cave.

Matter of fact, the longer and more painful the shutdown is, the better it is for the Democrats. All they have to do is turn their DVR's on and record everything for next fall.


You are wrong.   The People know who is pushing this.. Obamacare is a disaster, the worst is yet to come.. all know it, many won't admit it.. Obama and the Old Guard don't care.. they got theirs already, now they want to take what little we have.. It is plain for all to see who is pushing this.. if you think 2010 was a wakeup, wait for 2014 and 2016...  if you want to keep America, we better clean house !  The Establishment is old and corrupt, only interested in furthering their cause at our expense.. it,s time to retire the 'good ol' boys'...  take off the blinders and look around.. we have regulated ourselves out of what made this country great..  everybody used to buy Quality from us.. now we buy Crap from them... One entity is causing this, plus all of their followers who don't want to give up the free stuff...

i.imgur.com

And if you deny this, you are blind and stupid...   Please wake up.....
 
2013-09-30 09:05:52 AM

cameroncrazy1984: FC Exile: Trying to read comments anywhere this morning, (not just Fark), without running into a BB spoiler, is like riding a unicycle through a minefield blindfolded.

/Bet the assholes are all Democrats.

//Why does Fark show as mispelled?

It was his sled.


Get over here and clean this coffee off my monitor.
 
2013-09-30 09:07:17 AM
I lived in the US for the first 36 years of my life. I had sh**ty BC/BS insurance through my employer for a while, then had to shell out of pocket for sh**ty BC/BS on my own. The coverage was horrible, but was all I could afford. Then I moved to Canada. Yes, the taxes are high- about the same as anywhere in the Northeastern US. The difference is that when I had to take my son to the ER last week, where he was admitted for emergency surgery, I gave the intake desk his health card. That's it.
 
2013-09-30 09:07:21 AM

czetie: born_yesterday: Right now, I don't know. There is no way the House bill passes. Which means they have to vote on the Senate version. I would have thought this was likely, until the House voted against the first Senate bill so decisively.

The only rational course of action is for Boehner and the non-extremist part of his party along with the Democrats in the House to pass a clean CR -- you know, the way things have always been done in the past when a small rump of extremists wasn't holding the entire country hostage to achieve a goal they couldn't achieve through democratic means.

And yes, I do realize how laughably improbable that is.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the House throw some anti-abortion proposal into the CR?  I seem to recall reading about that.  If so, it's pretty clear that their version was disingenuous at best.

If Boener couldn't get them to vote for the first clean CR, I'm not sure what's changed (other than the waning time before a shutdown).

Again, according to The Hill, the extremists in the House reportedly have no fear of a shutdown, convinced they'll be seen as patriotic defenders of AmericanFreedomBootstraps.  Considering their constituency, they're correct.  In addition, unlike previous shut downs, there are reportedly few, if any, negotiations going on behind the scenes.

So yeah; it's passing a clean CR or a shut down.
 
2013-09-30 09:07:47 AM

OlderGuy: if you think 2010 was a wakeup, wait for 2014 and 2016


Why did you skip over 2012?
 
2013-09-30 09:08:06 AM

OlderGuy: if you want to keep America, we better clean house


Were you planning on starting with the Mexicans or did you want to stick with tradition and start with the Jews and homosexuals?
 
2013-09-30 09:08:28 AM

OlderGuy: Publikwerks: This is such a bad move by the GOP. There is no way the Senate even looks at the House bill, and polls show that people are going to blame the GOP for the shutdown. And a majority of Americans are ambivalent about the ACA. So if they win, they don't win anything from moderates. And if they force the shutdown, they lose big.

Meanwhile, Democrats can just sit back and watch. They have passed a clean CR, so they can say "we've done our part" and walk away. They win if the House caves, they win if the House doesn't cave.

Matter of fact, the longer and more painful the shutdown is, the better it is for the Democrats. All they have to do is turn their DVR's on and record everything for next fall.

You are wrong.   The People know who is pushing this.. Obamacare is a disaster, the worst is yet to come.. all know it, many won't admit it.. Obama and the Old Guard don't care.. they got theirs already, now they want to take what little we have.. It is plain for all to see who is pushing this.. if you think 2010 was a wakeup, wait for 2014 and 2016...  if you want to keep America, we better clean house !  The Establishment is old and corrupt, only interested in furthering their cause at our expense.. it,s time to retire the 'good ol' boys'...  take off the blinders and look around.. we have regulated ourselves out of what made this country great..  everybody used to buy Quality from us.. now we buy Crap from them... One entity is causing this, plus all of their followers who don't want to give up the free stuff...

[i.imgur.com image 432x324]

And if you deny this, you are blind and stupid...   Please wake up.....


Hear Hear!
 
2013-09-30 09:10:28 AM

Bontesla: Leader O'Cola: What is the most stupid and painful possible outcome?  That is what we will do.

Markets overseas already seem to be pricing it in.  TP voters will rejoice, as their 401k's plummet (yeh, most of them don't have 401ks to begin with. They learned from their hero Rand to live off SS anyways)

I'm totally against a shutdown.

But I have set up stock alerts for when my favorite picks come tumbling down. I shall buy everything.


No shorts? I have Wal-Mart shorted as a test. If I can make a fair grip of cash, I use real money next time shutdown is threatened.

/a little late learning, yes, but if it happens again in 20 years, at least I'll know how to make a buck off the lunacy
 
2013-09-30 09:11:41 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: OlderGuy: if you want to keep America, we better clean house

Were you planning on starting with the Mexicans or did you want to stick with tradition and start with the Jews and homosexuals?


You left out the gypsies.
 
2013-09-30 09:12:27 AM

netcentric: "The budget process has completely broken down in recent years.  The two people most responsible for that breakdown are President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
Reid and the Democrats knew very well that the federal deficit was spiraling out of control..."

There isn't enough money to go around for all the Democrats tax and spend programs.

Time to shut things down for a while, till Harry Reid can decide how to begin paying for some things.


(I feel bad for you if you are a 20someting and part of generation debt)


i213.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-30 09:13:27 AM
Fortunately, demographics is biting the GOP hard in the ass and will continue to do so.  Every election cycle more of their core supporters die or become incapable of voting while more people who grew up under George Bush become eligible to vote.
 
2013-09-30 09:13:33 AM

Thunderpipes: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Thunderpipes (favorite: ITG Editor in Chief): Going to be hilarious when the few Democrats who actually work get their new health care bills.

We'll just raise taxes on the job creators and give all the unemployed Democrats a subsidy.

Yup, has worked wonders everywhere it has been done. Hi Detroit, how ya doing? Hi CA, how is your pension shortfall looking, oh, billions and billions of dollars underfunded? Awesome. Solyndra, the company that will save us, how you been? Minorities, thank goodness your employment numbers have jumped way up huh? Bang up Job, Bam Bam.


we get it... he's Black.
 
2013-09-30 09:13:43 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-30 09:14:42 AM

derpy: I'm really just posting to say that I was here.

also:This video is the best explanation I've yet seen of what Obamacare is and what it does and how it affects you.


that was excellent. thanks.
 
2013-09-30 09:15:25 AM
It's not negotiation unless both sides want opposite things. The Democrats want to avoid hurting the economy, so they want to raise the debt ceiling. If the Republicans think that's negotiable, then they want to harm the American economy. If that's what they want, who wants to give them anything?
 
2013-09-30 09:15:57 AM

badhatharry: Publikwerks: badhatharry: Publikwerks: badhatharry: THE TEA PARTY IS NOT THREATENING SHUT DOWN! THEY DON'T WANT A SHUTDOWN! THEY WANT TO NEGOTIATE!

THE DEMOCRATS WANT THE SHUT DOWN! THEY REFUSE TO NEGOTIATE!


I can't take it anymore

Defunding/postponing the ACA is a higher priority to them, otherwise, the house would have passed a clean funding bill like the Senate did. It is their fault.

That is what they were elected to do. The Senate has to negotiate with them. The Senate is saying we don't like it so you get nothing.

Well, no, they don't. Since polls show most people are gonna blame the GOP, there is little reason to negotiate. The ACA is a lost cause. It's in effect, and is not going anywhere.

That is exactly why there will be a shutdown. The democrats would actually like a delay but they know the republicans will get blamed for the shutdown. That is why they are pushing for a shutdown.


This is America. We do not negotiate with terrorists.
 
2013-09-30 09:16:04 AM

MarshWoman: I lived in the US for the first 36 years of my life. I had sh**ty BC/BS insurance through my employer for a while, then had to shell out of pocket for sh**ty BC/BS on my own. The coverage was horrible, but was all I could afford. Then I moved to Canada. Yes, the taxes are high- about the same as anywhere in the Northeastern US. The difference is that when I had to take my son to the ER last week, where he was admitted for emergency surgery, I gave the intake desk his health card. That's it.


I was working with some Canadians during the whole debate. They were conservatives and they said they would never give up their health care system. They mentioned that we missed out on a chance to have universal healthcare.
 
2013-09-30 09:16:12 AM
I think it's interesting that some people are up in arms because The House is using a parlimentary trick (defunding) to try to stop a law that was passed using a parlimentary trick (reconciliation).

I, personally, feel that any law passed using underhanded tactics is fair game to be struck down using similar tactics.
 
2013-09-30 09:17:03 AM

OlderGuy: Publikwerks: This is such a bad move by the GOP. There is no way the Senate even looks at the House bill, and polls show that people are going to blame the GOP for the shutdown. And a majority of Americans are ambivalent about the ACA. So if they win, they don't win anything from moderates. And if they force the shutdown, they lose big.

Meanwhile, Democrats can just sit back and watch. They have passed a clean CR, so they can say "we've done our part" and walk away. They win if the House caves, they win if the House doesn't cave.

Matter of fact, the longer and more painful the shutdown is, the better it is for the Democrats. All they have to do is turn their DVR's on and record everything for next fall.

You are wrong.   The People know who is pushing this.. Obamacare is a disaster, the worst is yet to come.. all know it, many won't admit it.. Obama and the Old Guard don't care.. they got theirs already, now they want to take what little we have.. It is plain for all to see who is pushing this.. if you think 2010 was a wakeup, wait for 2014 and 2016...  if you want to keep America, we better clean house !  The Establishment is old and corrupt, only interested in furthering their cause at our expense.. it,s time to retire the 'good ol' boys'...  take off the blinders and look around.. we have regulated ourselves out of what made this country great..  everybody used to buy Quality from us.. now we buy Crap from them... One entity is causing this, plus all of their followers who don't want to give up the free stuff...

[i.imgur.com image 432x324]

And if you deny this, you are blind and stupid...   Please wake up.....


Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to OlderGuy Johnson for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particulary glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age.
 
2013-09-30 09:17:40 AM

DeaH: It's not negotiation unless both sides want opposite things. The Democrats want to avoid hurting the economy, so they want to raise the debt ceiling. If the Republicans think that's negotiable, then they want to harm the American economy. If that's what they want, who wants to give them anything?


They don't believe it will hurt the economy
 
2013-09-30 09:18:17 AM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: My prediction is that this is all over by Wednesday, the GOP caves in after immense pressure from their major campaign donors, and everything goes back to "normal" until the debt ceiling battle on Oct 17th.


I'm not entirely convinced. The Teahadists have demonstrated that they're true believers. Have you tried reasoning with a religious fanatic?

The moderates are already backing away from the cliff but they're not significantly important without the numbers added by the Teahadists. We need both groups to be reasonable. Wall Street has had difficulty applying pressure to the Teahadists.

We'll either shut down now or postpone it to shutdown over the debt ceiling but a shut down seems pretty inevitable.

Then we'll see a change in the Republican party as members start pointing fingers and accusing one another of supporting the unpopular shutdown.
 
2013-09-30 09:21:24 AM
badhatharry, and those that think like him are what's wrong with the United States.

Stupid, angry, misinformed, loud...
 
2013-09-30 09:21:42 AM
Oblio13:
Why does everyone seem to think that a few days without a huge, intrusive bureaucracy would be the end of the world?
The government shutting down "non-essential services" is like unemployed people going on strike. Most "non-essential services" are things it shouldn't be doing in the first place.
Our leaders are alarming us so that we'll put pressure on their political opponents. Instead of being their frightened dupes, we should be telling them to make these cuts permanent.



The end of the world? no

 "Non-essential" personnel still do have on-going essential needs (food, electricity) - it also means for some areas, "essential personnel" just do more work - or it doesn't get done.

  Or military - sure, they'll get paid, retroactively - I've no doubt most 20-30-somethings with wives and small children have saved enough cash to live on while Boehner et al play chicken on the hill.

But, I'd really rather not have to add another 2 Billion onto the tab - that is generally what shutting down will cost. But, hey? It's only money, right? Fiscal Conservatives do what?
 
2013-09-30 09:23:26 AM

Monkeyhouse Zendo: I've resigned myself to the understanding that a significant fraction of the House see Mad Max II: Beyond Thunderdome as an acceptable alternative to a successful and working health care system.


A successful and working healthcare system is an option on the table? Since when?
 
2013-09-30 09:24:24 AM

netcentric: "The budget process has completely broken down in recent years.  The two people most responsible for that breakdown are President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
Reid and the Democrats knew very well that the federal deficit was spiraling out of control..."

There isn't enough money to go around for all the Democrats tax and spend programs.

Time to shut things down for a while, till Harry Reid can decide how to begin paying for some things.


(I feel bad for you if you are a 20someting and part of generation debt)


Would you like to post some charts forecasting our future deficits and how much money we've already saved through programs like Obamacare?
 
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