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(Marketwatch)   Thanks to House Republicans, your 401(k) will be a 101(k) by Friday. Be thankful you still have Social Security, for now   (marketwatch.com) divider line 123
    More: Scary, House Republicans, social security, Mohamed El-Erian, Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA, debt limit, barclays  
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5370 clicks; posted to Business » on 30 Sep 2013 at 9:14 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-30 07:37:34 AM
From an extremely cynical standpoint, I kinda hope they do screw the economy. I want to see the market tank so that I can plow a bunch of money into it when it's scraping the bottom.
 
2013-09-30 07:53:42 AM
i23.photobucket.com
If economy dies.  Economy dies.
 
2013-09-30 08:55:46 AM
Hey, I'm still decades from retirement, so I wouldn't mind the chance to add some cheap Tesla stock to my retirement investments.
 
2013-09-30 09:20:31 AM

Mad_Radhu: Hey, I'm still decades from retirement, so I wouldn't mind the chance to add some cheap Tesla stock to my retirement investments.


Same here.  Though my father is getting close to retirement, he's following this thing very closely because health insurance is a big part of his plan.  Just goes to show you that pretty much anything can be good news for some, bad news for others.
 
2013-09-30 09:26:06 AM
Oh dear, I hope House of Representative's pensions are in no way negatively affected.  I was awake all last night wondering what effect this would have on the retirement annuities of these brave heroes who dared to stand up, take their ball, and go home.
 
2013-09-30 09:27:23 AM
Meh.  Buying opportunity.  I'll happily get another few percent return off of the Teatard's little tantrum.
 
2013-09-30 09:31:41 AM

AngryDragon: Meh.  Buying opportunity.  I'll happily get another few percent return off of the Teatard's little tantrum.


You know eventually it will stop working in our favor, right? It's one thing when these idiots stamp their feet and piss their pleats over a shutdown or debt ceiling fight once, it's quite another when it becomes S.O.P.

People are going to start thinking that they really mean it and investors don't really have to put their money here. There are other safe havens for their petro dollars and tech investments in the world, it wouldn't take a monumental shift to make those places more attractive. We've sort of being skirting along for a few years now as "best of all the bad options" for investors, but if one of those other places improves and we keep this shiat up, the money will leave.
 
2013-09-30 09:32:51 AM
i.imgur.com

The votes of only seventeen House Republicans would be required to pass a clean continuing resolution to the Senate, forestalling the crash until we do this all over again in two weeks over the debt ceiling.

One window open to CNBC, one window open to C-SPAN. If there are votes for a CCR to prevent a government shutdown, it stands to reason there will also be enough votes to pass a clean debt ceiling bill.

The economy can survive a few days of government shutdown. It cannot survive a further credit downgrade or a default. Keeping in mind how they blew it up in 2011, and because we don't know how many of the moderate Republicans (who control the outcome) have positioned themselves net long or short the market today, it's unknown whether they'll do it again. Remember that men not only want to watch the world burn, they may be counting on it.

There's the opening bell. And here. we. go.
 
2013-09-30 09:38:57 AM
A shutdown will have little effect on the markets.  It may jolt down when news comes down at first, but in the end it will have no long term effect.

Look what the market did during the last shutdown... pretty flat.
 
2013-09-30 09:40:42 AM
Oh well.  It's not like anyone in Gen X/Y is expecting their 401K to do them any good in the long run anyway.
 
2013-09-30 09:46:57 AM

skozlaw: AngryDragon: Meh.  Buying opportunity.  I'll happily get another few percent return off of the Teatard's little tantrum.

You know eventually it will stop working in our favor, right? It's one thing when these idiots stamp their feet and piss their pleats over a shutdown or debt ceiling fight once, it's quite another when it becomes S.O.P.

People are going to start thinking that they really mean it and investors don't really have to put their money here. There are other safe havens for their petro dollars and tech investments in the world, it wouldn't take a monumental shift to make those places more attractive. We've sort of being skirting along for a few years now as "best of all the bad options" for investors, but if one of those other places improves and we keep this shiat up, the money will leave.


Agreed.  We're not quite there yet.  It's just like manufacturing, trade, jobs, education, and everything else in this country.  All of it offshored and outsourced for the ultra-wealthy.  Finance isn't there yet, but it is certainly beginning.  The rest of us will be left with nothing.
 
2013-09-30 09:52:18 AM

Twilight Farkle: The economy can survive a few days of government shutdown. It cannot survive a further credit downgrade or a default. Keeping in mind how they blew it up in 2011, and because we don't know how many of the moderate Republicans (who control the outcome) have positioned themselves net long or short the market today, it's unknown whether they'll do it again. Remember that men not only want to watch the world burn, they may be counting on it.


We have a winner!

Imagine you, Mr. Individual Investor, could legally trade on insider information, but only during certain circumstances.  Imagine the chance to basically make a surefire investment, guaranteed to make you money almost immediately.  Sure, other people might lose their own retirement funds through no fault of their own, and directly due to your actions, but we're talking about YOUR MONEY here.  You need more, right?  Sure you do.

Would you take advantage when the opportunity presented itself?
 
2013-09-30 09:57:03 AM
I have some money to commit, and I'm waiting for the market to drop, thanks Republicans!
 
2013-09-30 10:03:35 AM

nekom: Mad_Radhu: Hey, I'm still decades from retirement, so I wouldn't mind the chance to add some cheap Tesla stock to my retirement investments.

Same here.  Though my father is getting close to retirement, he's following this thing very closely because health insurance is a big part of his plan.  Just goes to show you that pretty much anything can be good news for some, bad news for others.


If you're doing it right, by the time you get close to retirement you should be into securities that are less volatile.

I do wish we'd quit farking around and just do universal Medicare already. That would shore up the Medicare system by having young, healthy people paying in more, and would take care of the huge insurance system mess we have now. Unless you really fark up the implementation, it should fix most everything broken with the current system. I almost wonder if at some point we'll see more states get tired of waiting for the feds to move and implement their own systems like Massachusetts did. The liberal west coast would be a good place to do a large scale test of the feasibility of single payer.
 
2013-09-30 10:08:03 AM
The markets went down last week in preparation for a shutdown, we won't see much downward movement when the government closes shop tomorrow.

When we default on our debt two weeks from now is when we'll see the markets collapse.
 
2013-09-30 10:21:45 AM
If 1 week's market action determines what happens with your 401k, you're investing wrong.   If you are close to retirement, you should already be diversified in such a way that the stock market crashing (which it won't), won't destroy your nest egg.  If you are not close to retirement, you should welcome the correction as an opportunity to buy some cheaper stocks.  We've had a _great_ run this year in the markets, and one that cannot be repeated regularly without all of the money of the world being required to continue the gains.  Chill, folks.
 
2013-09-30 10:28:18 AM

Mad_Radhu: nekom: Mad_Radhu: Hey, I'm still decades from retirement, so I wouldn't mind the chance to add some cheap Tesla stock to my retirement investments.

Same here.  Though my father is getting close to retirement, he's following this thing very closely because health insurance is a big part of his plan.  Just goes to show you that pretty much anything can be good news for some, bad news for others.

If you're doing it right, by the time you get close to retirement you should be into securities that are less volatile.

I do wish we'd quit farking around and just do universal Medicare already. That would shore up the Medicare system by having young, healthy people paying in more, and would take care of the huge insurance system mess we have now. Unless you really fark up the implementation, it should fix most everything broken with the current system. I almost wonder if at some point we'll see more states get tired of waiting for the feds to move and implement their own systems like Massachusetts did. The liberal west coast would be a good place to do a large scale test of the feasibility of single payer.


If we crash into the debt ceiling, Treasury bills will no longer be safe and non-volatile.
 
2013-09-30 10:33:39 AM
The market would be doing a hell of a lot better if the Democrats didn't insist on being Fascists
 
2013-09-30 10:46:19 AM

Smeggy Smurf: The market would be doing a hell of a lot better if the Democrats Repubtards didn't insist on being Fascists

stubborn asses that can't even do a simple task.
 
2013-09-30 10:48:35 AM

Mad_Radhu: Hey, I'm still decades from retirement, so I wouldn't mind the chance to add some cheap Tesla stock to my retirement investments.


I checked it earlier today.  As usual, Tesla's value appears to be fairly unaffected by the market in general, it was sitting at about 193 and climbing.  I only wish I had bought more shares during the IPO.
 
2013-09-30 10:53:10 AM
The market would be doing a hell of a lot better if the Republicans didn't insist on being Fascists
 
2013-09-30 10:54:43 AM

Muta: The market would be doing a hell of a lot better if the Republicans didn't insist on being Fascists


"the market" is doing fine by design.  In fact, it's over-inflated, by design.

The private-sector economy has been pretty stagnant for quite a while no thanks to Democrats or Republicans, who are both fascists in reality.
 
2013-09-30 10:57:17 AM

FitzShivering: If 1 week's market action determines what happens with your 401k, you're investing wrong. If you are close to retirement, you should already be diversified in such a way that the stock market crashing (which it won't), won't destroy your nest egg. If you are not close to retirement, you should welcome the correction as an opportunity to buy some cheaper stocks. We've had a _great_ run this year in the markets, and one that cannot be repeated regularly without all of the money of the world being required to continue the gains. Chill, folks.


Absolutely! Interest rates are zero, three rounds of QE, a 4-year bull market, and inflation's nowhere to be seen. It doesn't get better than that.

It took us four years to recover from 2008, and six months to recover from the self-inflicted 20% correction caused by the 2011 credit downgrade, and yet we're still at risk due to self-professed "capitalists" (read: TP radicals, who are nothing of the kind) demanding Bernanke's head on a platter and fiscal tightening during the early stages of the recovery. Moreover, we have moderate Republicans willing to accede to that agenda (up to a point) in order to defend themselves against being primaried out of their seats.

In the long run, and even in the coming months, this is very likely to be a buying opportunity, but the derp on Capitol Hill is now so thick that we can no longer even trust Congress to follow its orders from Wall Street. That should be a one-way bet, but 2011 proved otherwise. I believe the odds of a self-inflicted economic catastrophe are slim, but it's a risk we're all going to have to live with for at least another electoral cycle.
 
2013-09-30 10:58:48 AM
The economy has been slowing down from the sequester.  Republicans could have blamed the slowdown on the Dems.  Instead the Republicans grabbed a megaphone and broadcast, "We are the ones who are screwing everything up!!", to the nation.   The GOP truly are the Stupid Party.
 
2013-09-30 10:59:45 AM
If you have a majority of your 401k in stocks these days, you deserve to lose your money.
 
2013-09-30 10:59:49 AM
The Fascists would be doing a hell of a lot better if the Libertarians didn't insist on being Markets.

/amidoinitrite?
 
2013-09-30 11:03:03 AM

dwrash: If you have a majority of your 401k in stocks these days, you deserve to lose your money.


Of course, that line of reasoning would have been really devastating advice in 2013.
 
2013-09-30 11:04:35 AM
401k is a long term investment vehicle, spanning decades of investments.  Who cares what happens over the course of a few weeks?  This is like complaining about a heat wave or a cold snap because of global warming
 
2013-09-30 11:07:04 AM

bhcompy: 401k is a long term investment vehicle, spanning decades of investments.  Who cares what happens over the course of a few weeks?  This is like complaining about a heat wave or a cold snap because of global warming


I heard someone at work complaining about her 401k only being up 15% this year (this is lagging the market of course).  I've sort of decided that "daily updates on 401ks" should probably be taken aware from people with no investing education.
 
2013-09-30 11:08:19 AM

bhcompy: 401k is a long term investment vehicle, spanning decades of investments.  Who cares what happens over the course of a few weeks?  This is like complaining about a heat wave or a cold snap because of global warming


This, obviously.
 
2013-09-30 11:09:00 AM

Muta: The economy has been slowing down from the sequester.  Republicans could have blamed the slowdown on the Dems.  Instead the Republicans grabbed a megaphone and broadcast, "We are the ones who are screwing everything up!!", to the nation.   The GOP truly are the Stupid Party.


If the economy is slowing down due a flattening, not even cuts, of federal government spending, you didn't have much of an economy to begin with.
 
2013-09-30 11:20:22 AM

MugzyBrown: Muta: The economy has been slowing down from the sequester.  Republicans could have blamed the slowdown on the Dems.  Instead the Republicans grabbed a megaphone and broadcast, "We are the ones who are screwing everything up!!", to the nation.   The GOP truly are the Stupid Party.

If the economy is slowing down due a flattening, not even cuts, of federal government spending, you didn't have much of an economy to begin with.


Perfect illustration of Muta's point about the Stupid.  The economy has to slow down when growth slows down in any sector if there's not a corresponding acceleration in other sectors.  That's kind of how math works.
 
2013-09-30 11:21:25 AM
The GOP is going ahead with their "final solution" to poor people having working fridges, microwaves, and a heated hovel. They're getting ready to defund the rest of the  401K's that weren't emptied during the Bush administration financial free-fall.


Breaking Bad America's final episode should prove frightening, only because it's real.
 
2013-09-30 11:26:34 AM
What's a 401K? Why should I care?

/millenials' only shot at retirement is 401Ks tanking so hard people see it's not a good idea to tie retirement to a casino
 
2013-09-30 11:29:43 AM
401k plans are almost done for by now.  It will be within the very near future that they are confiscated to fund Social Security and other government pension obligations.
 
2013-09-30 11:31:10 AM

Wendy's Chili: When we default on our debt two weeks from now is when we'll see the markets collapse.


Along with a complete collapse of world governments, and mass armed revolutions resulting in the deaths of over a billion people worldwide. Though as a side effect it will also solve our global warming problems.
 
2013-09-30 11:39:56 AM

Muta: The market would be doing a hell of a lot better if the Republicans didn't insist on being Fascists


Fascists at least made the trains run on time. Republicans are not fascists. They are third world autocrats. Scratch that, they ASPIRE to be third world autocrats.
 
2013-09-30 11:42:38 AM

mrmopar5287: 401k plans are almost done for by now.  It will be within the very near future that they are confiscated to fund Social Security and other government pension obligations.


Citation needed.
 
2013-09-30 11:42:47 AM

mrmopar5287: 401k plans are almost done for by now.  It will be within the very near future that they are confiscated to fund Social Security and other government pension obligations.


Please. That canard's been pitched since at least 2008, by Republican morons hoping that such a stupid rumor would turn the middle class against him during the last election.

I'd be far more afraid of the plan managers than the Obama administration, my friend.
 
2013-09-30 11:43:55 AM

mrmopar5287: 401k plans are almost done for by now.  It will be within the very near future that they are confiscated to fund Social Security and other government pension obligations.


No, they'll be utterly ignored because they are a cash out scheme to transfer money from the young to the old. And we know it. Why does the stock market rise? Because money is being dropped off by the dump truck full by workers paying into their 401k. What happens when a disproportionate number of workers cease working and start retiring? They have to cash out their 401k plans. And what does the market do when there are more sellers than buyers?

Anyone?

Bueller?
 
2013-09-30 11:44:51 AM

Sergeant Grumbles: What's a 401K? Why should I care?

/millenials' only shot at retirement is 401Ks tanking so hard people see it's not a good idea to tie retirement to a casino


As a "millenial" (God I hate that word), I'm assuming It's impossible to know what will be around in 40-ish years when I want to retire, if I can. I can't afford much, but I put enough in my 401K to hit the max company contribution, and a little in a Roth IRA. Doing the math, and assuming they'll both be there in the future, I'll pretty much have to work until I die.

I see it as more of a rollercoaster than a casino, and you have to pick the right time to jump off without splattering when you land.
 
2013-09-30 11:45:43 AM

Evil Twin Skippy: No, they'll be utterly ignored because they are a cash out scheme to transfer money from the young to the old. And we know it. Why does the stock market rise? Because money is being dropped off by the dump truck full by workers paying into their 401k. What happens when a disproportionate number of workers cease working and start retiring? They have to cash out their 401k plans. And what does the market do when there are more sellers than buyers?

Anyone?

Bueller?


This doesn't make too much sense.

The stock market is rising due to the Federal Reserves monetary policies.
 
2013-09-30 11:45:59 AM

MugzyBrown: Muta: The economy has been slowing down from the sequester.  Republicans could have blamed the slowdown on the Dems.  Instead the Republicans grabbed a megaphone and broadcast, "We are the ones who are screwing everything up!!", to the nation.   The GOP truly are the Stupid Party.

If the economy is slowing down due a flattening, not even cuts, of federal government spending, you didn't have much of an economy to begin with.


Ok genius. so if the world's largest economy isn't "much" of an economy, pray tell what is?
 
2013-09-30 11:46:57 AM

Evil Twin Skippy: Muta: The market would be doing a hell of a lot better if the Republicans didn't insist on being Fascists

Fascists at least made the trains run on time. Republicans are not fascists. They are third world autocrats. Scratch that, they ASPIRE to be third world autocrats.


Bingo. They aspire to be puppets, manipulated by the true ruling class, hoping to have their professional lives comped and their luxuriant retirements fulfilled from the coffers of the rich.

They're whores, basically. Citizens United inspired these whores to new heights of professional capitalism - the price controls are off, the market's wide open, and even the craziest of political skanks, like Ted Cruz, can now rake in the dough if they put out enthusiastically enough.
 
2013-09-30 11:47:54 AM

MugzyBrown: Evil Twin Skippy: No, they'll be utterly ignored because they are a cash out scheme to transfer money from the young to the old. And we know it. Why does the stock market rise? Because money is being dropped off by the dump truck full by workers paying into their 401k. What happens when a disproportionate number of workers cease working and start retiring? They have to cash out their 401k plans. And what does the market do when there are more sellers than buyers?

Anyone?

Bueller?

This doesn't make too much sense.

The stock market is rising due to the Federal Reserves monetary policies.


No, the Federal Reserve policy has nothing to do with stocks, and everything to do with printing money, handing it to banks, and the banks in turn buying government securities.
 
2013-09-30 11:48:00 AM

Evil Twin Skippy: mrmopar5287: 401k plans are almost done for by now.  It will be within the very near future that they are confiscated to fund Social Security and other government pension obligations.

No, they'll be utterly ignored because they are a cash out scheme to transfer money from the young to the old. And we know it. Why does the stock market rise? Because money is being dropped off by the dump truck full by workers paying into their 401k. What happens when a disproportionate number of workers cease working and start retiring? They have to cash out their 401k plans. And what does the market do when there are more sellers than buyers?

Anyone?

Bueller?


... huh? I mean, I'm occasionally game for a line of derp, but, you... wow.
 
2013-09-30 11:48:31 AM

kittyhas1000legs: I can't afford much, but I put enough in my 401K to hit the max company contribution


I see you're lucky enough to work somewhere that offers a 401K and a company contribution. Mine has no company match, and I still have student loans to pay. The 401K sits empty.

kittyhas1000legs: I see it as more of a rollercoaster than a casino, and you have to pick the right time to jump off without splattering when you land.


They can't rig a rollercoaster against you, so it'll always be a casino.
 
2013-09-30 11:51:18 AM

Sergeant Grumbles: What's a 401K? Why should I care?

/millenials' only shot at retirement is 401Ks tanking so hard people see it's not a good idea to tie retirement to a casino


Or they could take responsibility for themselves and live within their means while saving for their retirement (instead of hoping the government dole will support them) like previous generations.
 
2013-09-30 11:58:24 AM
FormlessOne:

... huh? I mean, I'm occasionally game for a line of derp, but, you... wow.

Ok, where does money go when you buy a stock? Into the pocket of the person who sold you the stock. When there are more people buying than selling the price goes up, right? When there are more people selling than buying, the price goes down, correct? That's the definition of a market. Last I checked.

Since the advent of the 401k, we have this industrial funnel that takes money out of everyday people's paychecks and onto the market. While yes, there are many types of 401ks, most of them revolve around stocks. And if your 401k is based on stock they MUST spend the money on stock. Which means they have to go out and find a stock to buy. When you want your money back, they have to sell. Do I have you so far?

I'm looking at actuary charts here. There are more boomers on the market, by headcount and by valuation, than any other segment of the population. There is going to be a massive OUTFLUX of money as they start cashing in their chips to either retire or expire. (Your 401k has to be converted to cash before being distributed to your estate.)

Anyone who has money in the market at this time is going to take a bath. There will be far more sellers than buyers. And there isn't a massive influx of affluent workers who will be scarfing up all of these bits of paper.

So the boomers are going to be screwed. The population that follows is going to stay out of the market, because they will be screwed. The only people who aren't going to be screwed are the brokers. They make their money coming and going.
 
2013-09-30 11:58:28 AM

AdolfClamwacker: Or they could take responsibility for themselves and live within their means while saving for their retirement (instead of hoping the government dole will support them) like previous generations.


Where did I mention the dole?
I'd say taking responsibility for yourself doesn't involve investing in a casino. Previous generations either had nothing, pensions, or a casino that at least wasn't trying to fark them so hard.
 
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