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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   "Breaking Bad finale may rank as the greatest achievement in our modern Golden Age of Television", biatch   (tampabay.com) divider line 296
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3363 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 30 Sep 2013 at 7:19 AM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-30 10:24:26 AM

Mad_Radhu: HotIgneous Intruder: If you look at the form of classic dramatic structure, you see that the plot develops and rises to a peak of action, then there is falling action leading to the denouement, or resolution.

The plot climax of the series was the "To'hajiilee" shootout.
The last two episodes were just to clean up the loose ends, to resolve the drama.

Very classic narrative form.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_structure

That's where a lot of shows fail. They leave the climax right to the very end, not leaving any time for the story to wind down naturally.


If you watch Game of Thrones they follow that method each season with the climax at episode 9 with 10 being a slower wrap up episode tying up ends and setting up next season.
 
2013-09-30 10:24:28 AM

Detinwolf: DamnYankees: I also do wish we had a little more emotional resolution for Jesse. All that happens is that he's set free, but he still has absolutely nothing in his life, Andrea is still dead, and he's emotionally tortured. Jesse didn't get a denoument - he'll probably die of drug overdose within a few months.

I have to agree.  He drove off, laughing maniacally.  He has nothing.  He saw two women he loved die, he's been beaten, betrayed, disowned by his family.

But in another way, it works.  Not having the closure isn't satisfying, but it is unsettling.  If that's what the writers wanted, it works.


Sets it up perfectly for a spin off. 10 years latter Jessie is working at a high school as a shop teacher and sees one of his students starting go get into meth and drug dealing. He has no choice but to try and help him get out of that world but keeps being sucked back into it.
 
2013-09-30 10:24:56 AM

TeamEd: Brilliant show, bad ending.
Walt was a more interesting and complex character when he was exiled to New Hampshire dying of cancer alone, hated and unable to give his family his money. And then, the last episode. Everything that happens after he leaves New Hampshire breaks his way. The last episode is him succeeding in setting his family up with money, avenging his honour, and dying on his own terms, satisfied.
In one episode he turned from the man who was finally suffering the consequences of continually over-estimating his own genius back into the guy who's simply smarter and luckier than everyone.
/ He had no plans to survive the showdown with the Nazis (remember when he was so fascinated by the ending of Scarface?). He was always going to die. It's weird he gets to die satisfied, not feeling an ounce of the suffering Jesse has.


So in other words, you desperately wanted to believe that Walter White was a horrible human being, and this ending ruined it for you.

Jesse deserves all of his suffering. All of it. Jesse was the one that caused Hank's death, and Gomie's, and Andrea's. If Jesse had just gotten in the van and gone on and lived his life with a big bag of money, then those three would still be alive, and Hank would have died from cancer anyway. Fark Jesse.
 
2013-09-30 10:25:49 AM

karmaceutical: I love that people were complaining that Walt had no idea what he was doing with the large machine gun.  The first scene with the gun?  That's right, MANUAL biatch!  Walt is a man of science, he reads the goddamn manual.  BOOM!


But NOBODY rtfm. NOBODY.
 
2013-09-30 10:27:00 AM

Beer cap: I still want to know what Walt planned on doing if he had survived the M-60 carnage.


I think he was ready to accept whatever fate would fall to him. If he survived I think he would have been fine to have been arrested. He had effectively "Balanced his books".
 
2013-09-30 10:29:22 AM

cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.


 Deprive yourself of a simple pleasure. That'll show those over-enthusiastic reviewers!

They'll RUE THE DAY!
 
2013-09-30 10:29:50 AM

cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.


Lmao you come in every single Breaking Bad thread just to shiat on it. You are so much cooler than the rest of us. What a putz.
 
2013-09-30 10:29:57 AM

YoOjo: Walt's last scene alive, stroking the apparatus fondly, a homage to chemistry which along with his family was the love of his life - his last goodbye.
So powerful.
Plus I said this in the main thread but want to say it one more time, I defy anyone who has been divorced or lost a significant other not to feel overwhelmed at the scene where he one by one sees his family for the last time.
So powerful.
The show might or might not have set a new bar, that's a matter of opinion, but those two scenes will stay with me like the final minutes of the last episode of Six Feet Under.
I'll take a break from televized drama now, always sensible at times like this as nothing else will come close for a while.


I was thinking about that final scene this morning. Walt stroking the stainless steel container, then collapsing and leaving his bloody prints on the container. Walt died in a meth lab, with his fingerprints on the equipment. Many people are going to believe that that meth lab was Walt's, and he was cooking from there. They'll believe that he was the one making the great meth at the end. His legacy is intact.
 
2013-09-30 10:35:31 AM

DamnYankees: My only issue - the Stevia thing didn't make sense. How and when did he put ricin inside the Stevia packet? How did he know she'd sit at that table; just last week she'd sat at a different one. Why did he need to tell her what he did - now that she knows, can't she get treatment? Sloppy.

Otherwise - absolutely great.


Walter knew she was a creature of ritual and habit. Same time and place, same drink with same sweetener. So...

1) He makes a poison stevia packet at home. It would be easy to open a tiny hole then glue it closed.

2) He gets there before her and figures out which table she is likely to sit at. (not many open tables and she likes to be near the window).Then puts it on "her table" and removes all others so she is sure to get the poison one.   (If someone else sat there first he could just walk up and and take the packet with a quiet "excuse me")

3) He told her, because she is a biatch and he wanted her to know who won (him!) and wanted her to suffer .

4) No, there is no antidote for Ricin. If you swallow a lethal dose you almost certainly going to end up dead even in a hospital.

5) I agree. A great ending for a great show.
 
2013-09-30 10:35:52 AM

Lando Lincoln: TeamEd: Brilliant show, bad ending.
Walt was a more interesting and complex character when he was exiled to New Hampshire dying of cancer alone, hated and unable to give his family his money. And then, the last episode. Everything that happens after he leaves New Hampshire breaks his way. The last episode is him succeeding in setting his family up with money, avenging his honour, and dying on his own terms, satisfied.
In one episode he turned from the man who was finally suffering the consequences of continually over-estimating his own genius back into the guy who's simply smarter and luckier than everyone.
/ He had no plans to survive the showdown with the Nazis (remember when he was so fascinated by the ending of Scarface?). He was always going to die. It's weird he gets to die satisfied, not feeling an ounce of the suffering Jesse has.

So in other words, you desperately wanted to believe that Walter White was a horrible human being, and this ending ruined it for you.

Jesse deserves all of his suffering. All of it. Jesse was the one that caused Hank's death, and Gomie's, and Andrea's. If Jesse had just gotten in the van and gone on and lived his life with a big bag of money, then those three would still be alive, and Hank would have died from cancer anyway. Fark Jesse.


No. I wanted a story I liked a lot to have a better ending. That's it.
 
2013-09-30 10:39:26 AM

DamnYankees: I also do wish we had a little more emotional resolution for Jesse. All that happens is that he's set free, but he still has absolutely nothing in his life, Andrea is still dead, and he's emotionally tortured. Jesse didn't get a denoument - he'll probably die of drug overdose within a few months.


I took it differently.

He had been through hell. And that is what he wanted. He wanted to be punished and forgiven. He got both.

He was punished for his past crimes. He was forgiven by Walt. His bad history ended very definitively with the drug lab, nazis, and Walt all gone. Jessie can do whatever he wants now. The world is his oyster.

We just have to hope he chooses wisely.
 
2013-09-30 10:42:01 AM
Jessie needs to make a cameo appearance on The Walking Dead.
 
2013-09-30 10:42:28 AM
Terrible review. Not sure if that guy watched the same series.

There is no evidence Walt was "pushed out" of Grey Matter. Clearly he had some issues with them, but he did go to Elliott's birthday party.

Walt being shot by his own gun is not some amazing form of poetic justice. By that point, I am sure Walter didn't care so long as the Nazis died.
 
2013-09-30 10:42:56 AM

Lando Lincoln: TeamEd: Brilliant show, bad ending.
Walt was a more interesting and complex character when he was exiled to New Hampshire dying of cancer alone, hated and unable to give his family his money. And then, the last episode. Everything that happens after he leaves New Hampshire breaks his way. The last episode is him succeeding in setting his family up with money, avenging his honour, and dying on his own terms, satisfied.
In one episode he turned from the man who was finally suffering the consequences of continually over-estimating his own genius back into the guy who's simply smarter and luckier than everyone.
/ He had no plans to survive the showdown with the Nazis (remember when he was so fascinated by the ending of Scarface?). He was always going to die. It's weird he gets to die satisfied, not feeling an ounce of the suffering Jesse has.

So in other words, you desperately wanted to believe that Walter White was a horrible human being, and this ending ruined it for you.

Jesse deserves all of his suffering. All of it. Jesse was the one that caused Hank's death, and Gomie's, and Andrea's. If Jesse had just gotten in the van and gone on and lived his life with a big bag of money, then those three would still be alive, and Hank would have died from cancer anyway. Fark Jesse.


Walt was a horrible human being.  But that doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad ending.  Walt lost everything but his pride, which can be seen as a win since that was what was most valuable to him.  In that I think it was a mixed ending.

As for Jesse, everything you say could be attributed to Walt as well.  If Walt had been willing to walk away before Gus, or continue letting Jesse cook alone while collecting half of the money, or been willing to walk away after killing Gus, all those people would be alive.  Walt is as culpable as Jesse is, even ignoring the fact that it was actually the Nazis who killed Hank, Gomez, and Andrea.
 
2013-09-30 10:43:39 AM
I love all the whiners - the show ended beautifully. For two weeks I've been saying if Walt saves Jesse in the end I will be furious...and then they STILL figure out a way for Walt to do it and somehow satisfy me. I love how he showed up there w/ just the intention to kill all the nazi's - it's not like he specifically went there to save Jesse that's just what ended up happening. I also like how he gave Jesse the chance to shoot and kill him if he would so choose to.
 
2013-09-30 10:46:22 AM

chewielouie: Jessie needs to make a cameo appearance on The Walking Dead.


Or on SNL
 
2013-09-30 10:46:22 AM

abhorrent1: I've never seen this show but plan to watch it on netflix at some point. Up until recently I didn't know it was on regular TV. I thought it was an HBO show and I don't have HBO otherwise I probably would have checked it out sooner. Didn't want to jump in in the middle though so I'll watch start to finish on NF.


Be very careful. My husband and I started (Netflix) and hammered down four seasons in just over a week. Highly addictive show.

I've not gotten to the fifth season yet. But, after reading some of the reactions in the earlier thread, I'll be diving into that tonight.
 
Bf+
2013-09-30 10:58:32 AM

Champion of the Sun: It wasn't bad or anything, but I was totally underwhelmed. Everything happened exactly how I thought it would going into the finale. For a show that has always kept me guessing, was kinda disappointed.


I'm conflicted.  I agree, it was awfully predictable.  Too clean, i thought.  On the other hand, it was a finale, so it probably shouldn't have left any ambiguity or messy loose ends.
Still, it just seemed like it was a gift to all the fans, almost like they had a "you decide the ending" vote.  Yay Jessie lives and is happy, yay that biatch Lydia died, yay Walt's family lived, yay it's Badger and Skinny Pete again!
I guess I'm OK with this, given how brutal the previous two episodes were.
 
2013-09-30 11:01:06 AM
Stevia(tm) - Tastes just like ricin without killing you
 
2013-09-30 11:04:22 AM
Loved the ending. I can understand how people might be underwhelmed but to claim it was outright horrible just doesn't compute.

Any idea when 5b will be on Netflix in the U.S.? I know in the U.K. they were all made available the day after they aired on AMC.
 
2013-09-30 11:08:43 AM
I havent watched a TV show in its entirety in 10 years. I hate cable TV. I stream everything. Hollywood sucks ass for the most part.  I started in on breaking bad from episode 1 by the time season 3 was out.

This was in my opinion the best TV show I have ever seen. From the subtle hints., to the color scheme, the soundtrack and the writing. I thought Breaking Bad was phenomenal.  Maybe the show will jump start Hollywood into better writing. Maybe we can get more shows that will finally start to break away from reality TV.
 
2013-09-30 11:09:11 AM

phenn: abhorrent1: I've never seen this show but plan to watch it on netflix at some point. Up until recently I didn't know it was on regular TV. I thought it was an HBO show and I don't have HBO otherwise I probably would have checked it out sooner. Didn't want to jump in in the middle though so I'll watch start to finish on NF.

Be very careful. My husband and I started (Netflix) and hammered down four seasons in just over a week. Highly addictive show.


being careful because it is addicting is good. i would also be careful because the way they were hawking MERCH on last night's episode ( like the complete season in a cute barrel thingy and aaron paul's new movie: yo, im 2 fast 2 furious biatch!) makes me think that now that they have convinced as many people as possible to watch the last season, they may remove it as a free to view program. i am not sure if and when this will happen, i just have a hunch.
 
2013-09-30 11:09:14 AM

DamnYankees: How and when did he put ricin inside the Stevia packet? How did he know she'd sit at that table; just last week she'd sat at a different one. Why did he need to tell her what he did - now that she knows, can't she get treatment? Sloppy.


He didn't know she'd sit there, but he had good reasoning and good odds she would. He isn't omniscient, there was always a risk it would fail. How did he know he'd be able to park his car in the right place without the nazis hassling him? TV magic.

Also I don't think you can treat ricin, not unless you get your stomach pumped right afterwards. He had that whole vial and wiki says a few grains of salt is lethal. But same reason, he didn't "need to tell her" but he did. He'll be dead soon anyway, it isn't like she'll seek vengeance. And her hit men are all dead now anyway.
 
2013-09-30 11:11:11 AM

DamnYankees: Confabulat: The show has always assumed you can put together the pieces, you know. It would have been lame to actually show Walter poisoning the Stevia.

I actually thought it was sort of lame that they tipped it off as much as they did - the anvillicious shot of her putting in the Stevia, and him telling her on the phone. All we needed to see was her sick on the phone; no need to mention anything else.


Well I think he told her to let her know that he won and just to rub it in her face.
 
2013-09-30 11:12:18 AM

Benjamin Stone: Loved the ending. I can understand how people might be underwhelmed but to claim it was outright horrible just doesn't compute.

Any idea when 5b will be on Netflix in the U.S.? I know in the U.K. they were all made available the day after they aired on AMC.


The DVD set comes out the week of Thanksgiving, so I wouldn't expect it before then.  It probably won't take 9 months again, though.
 
2013-09-30 11:12:39 AM
cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.

OMG, you are so edgy man!!!! So much a farking rebel.  Come into a thread about a show and rebel. Eff you, its people like you I hate. You knock something without even giving it an open mind and an honest try, but you will criticize the show and the people that watch it without an educated opinion.

So Fark off you piece of shiat.
 
2013-09-30 11:19:08 AM

divgradcurl: phenn: abhorrent1: I've never seen this show but plan to watch it on netflix at some point. Up until recently I didn't know it was on regular TV. I thought it was an HBO show and I don't have HBO otherwise I probably would have checked it out sooner. Didn't want to jump in in the middle though so I'll watch start to finish on NF.

Be very careful. My husband and I started (Netflix) and hammered down four seasons in just over a week. Highly addictive show.

being careful because it is addicting is good. i would also be careful because the way they were hawking MERCH on last night's episode ( like the complete season in a cute barrel thingy and aaron paul's new movie: yo, im 2 fast 2 furious biatch!) makes me think that now that they have convinced as many people as possible to watch the last season, they may remove it as a free to view program. i am not sure if and when this will happen, i just have a hunch.


I can't imagine anything in the universe addicting enough to make me want to watch a single second of any 2 fast 2 furious movie. And while I do want to see Breaking Bad. I don't want too bad enough to pay extra for it. So I'll see. If it's still there for free when I get around to it, good. If not, that's fine too.
 
2013-09-30 11:23:05 AM

Benjamin Stone: Loved the ending. I can understand how people might be underwhelmed but to claim it was outright horrible just doesn't compute.

Any idea when 5b will be on Netflix in the U.S.? I know in the U.K. they were all made available the day after they aired on AMC.


Use SafeIP and connect through a UK server. Might be up there.
 
2013-09-30 11:24:14 AM

cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.


I completely agree. I, too, prefer to watch television that has been roundly panned by everyone. I have a bootleg copy of the entire 7-episode run of "Emily's Reason's Why Not" that was smuggled out of Slovenia at great cost.
 
2013-09-30 11:27:27 AM

Electromax: Also I don't think you can treat ricin, not unless you get your stomach pumped right afterwards. He had that whole vial and wiki says a few grains of salt is lethal. But same reason, he didn't "need to tell her" but he did. He'll be dead soon anyway, it isn't like she'll seek vengeance. And her hit men are all dead now anyway.


He told her to prove he was the best, and yes after a certain dosage of ricin there is no treatment. Just make the patient comfortable until organ failure sets in and then eventual death.
 
2013-09-30 11:28:23 AM
I enjoyed the ending.  I'd like to think that the Nazis had Jesse bury those barrels somewhere in the desert for them (or he at least knows where they're hidden - somewhere away from the white power camp), and now Jesse is the only one who knows where they are.  I'd also like to think he grabbed the confession DVD before speeding off into the moonlight.

Only thing that really stuck out to me is that Walt is hanging out in a coffee shop and no one notices him.  Hasn't his face, and presumably sketches of him with and without hair, beard, etc., been plastered on the local news for a few months?
 
2013-09-30 11:29:05 AM

phenn: Benjamin Stone: Loved the ending. I can understand how people might be underwhelmed but to claim it was outright horrible just doesn't compute.

Any idea when 5b will be on Netflix in the U.S.? I know in the U.K. they were all made available the day after they aired on AMC.

Use SafeIP and connect through a UK server. Might be up there.


And, indeed, it is complete. Woohoooooo! I know what I'll be doing this evening.

img27.imageshack.us
 
2013-09-30 11:37:53 AM

LesserEvil: Beer cap: I still want to know what Walt planned on doing if he had survived the M-60 carnage.

He didn't plan on surviving. That seems pretty obvious,

Jumping on Jesse (on the pretense of "fighting" him) was a last minute decision to save Jesse after seeing that he had been enslaved by the nazis.


That and I thought it was pretty obvious what his backup plan was when he gave Jesse the gun and asked him to shoot him....

I mean he had terminal cancer as well, so I guess that was the tertiary plan?

Three Crooked Squirrels: Yeah, Walt got Lydia with the vial of ricin.  But the conclusion left wide open who would fall to the ricin cigarette.  And I still have no idea how Leaves of Grass got in Hank's bathroom.  And is Gale alive?  It sure looked like Jesse pointed the gun away at the last moment.  So many unanswered questions . . .

Please tell me this is a trolling post?
 
2013-09-30 11:38:43 AM

rugman11: Walt was a horrible human being.  But that doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad ending.  Walt lost everything but his pride, which can be seen as a win since that was what was most valuable to him.  In that I think it was a mixed ending.

As for Jesse, everything you say could be attributed to Walt as well.  If Walt had been willing to walk away before Gus, or continue letting Jesse cook alone while collecting half of the money, or been willing to walk away after killing Gus, all those people would be alive.  Walt is as culpable as Jesse is, even ignoring the fact that it was actually the Nazis who killed Hank, Gomez, and Andrea.


I would argue that Walt was not a horrible human being. Walt making a drug that has caused so many problems in our society was bad, but Walt was providing a product - he wasn't putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy the product. The junkies that bought the product were more culpable than Walt was in their suffering. Walt truly did care for his family, and this was shown many, many times throughout the series. Walt cared way too much for Jesse, and his caring for him led to many problems at the end. Walt also temporarily poisoned Brock, and caused Brock's mom and Brock's grandma and Jesse a lot of emotional stress over that. But Walt carefully administered the dosage and Brock came out of the event with no complications. What other horrible things did Walt do? He ran over and shot two murderers. He watched a blackmailing junkie die. He strangled / asphyxiated two drug dealers that were planning on stabbing / shooting him. He ruined a room full of evidence with a giant magnet. He wrecked a medical supply room door with thermite and stole a barrel of chemicals. He stole a lot of chemistry equipment from his high school. He lied to a lot of people. He robbed a train of 1,000 gallons of methylamine and replaced it with water. He shot and killed a hitman. He arranged for the killing of a crooked lawyer and 10 other criminal underlings.

In the end, Walt got most of what he wanted. His children and wife will get plenty of money to live out their lives. Gretchen and Elliot will not be living as comfortably as they were. His enemies have been vanquished. The legend of Heisenberg will live on.

What didn't Walt get? Jesse is alive, but he's still wanted by the DEA. Walt wanted Jesse to walk away from this nightmare clean, with a stack of cash so he could go start fresh and not be a junkie anymore. Walt's family did not love him anymore, but perhaps Skyler will tell Walt Jr. and Marie that Walt didn't kill Hank and Gomie, but in fact, Walt went and killed the people that did kill them, so perhaps Walt Jr. and Marie will come to look upon Walt more favorably.

Walt couldn't have walked away before Gus. Well...he COULD have, but that would have saddled his family with financial hardship, and that wasn't acceptable to Walt. Once he got involved with Gus, eventually he had enough money, but Gus was gunning for him and told Walter that he was going to murder Walt's family, and it was obvious that Gus wasn't going to let Jesse live either, so the only way he was going to get out of his relationship with Gus was by eliminating Gus.

In order to eliminate Gus, Walt had to get Jesse back on Walt's side, and that involved a certain Lilly of the Valley plant, and we all know the chain of events that happened between Jesse and Walt due to that plant.
 
2013-09-30 11:39:14 AM
I think Walt intended to die with the Nazis in the gun fire. It was only after seeing Jesse was a slave that he decided to save Jesse before offing himself.

This whole episode was Walt, Heisenburg died on the phone with Jr. Walt accepted it was he who was doing htese things and for selfish reasons. Prior to that he ws always justifying his actions by his intentions and created Heisenburg as a coping mechanism.

I've always believed the axiom that we judge ourselves by our intentions while the world judges us on our actions. BrBa was a case study of this...
 
2013-09-30 11:45:17 AM

Tuco'sTacos: I think Walt intended to die with the Nazis in the gun fire. It was only after seeing Jesse was a slave that he decided to save Jesse before offing himself.

This whole episode was Walt, Heisenburg died on the phone with Jr. Walt accepted it was he who was doing htese things and for selfish reasons. Prior to that he ws always justifying his actions by his intentions and created Heisenburg as a coping mechanism.

I've always believed the axiom that we judge ourselves by our intentions while the world judges us on our actions. BrBa was a case study of this...


I figured Heisenberg was dead when we didn't seen the hat in the final episode.
 
2013-09-30 11:46:04 AM

SlothB77: Lots of loose ends remain for me:

What does Jessie do?  Badger/ Skinny Pete reunion?
What happens to Sky?  Does she get off?  Does she get to keep the car wash?
What does Saul do?  He is in nebraska, right?  Does he become a corn farmer?
Where is the money?  Who finds it?  Who gets to keep it?
Do the Schwartzes actually give Walt Jr the money?


Jesse gets picked up by the DEA. He's just not that smart. He goes to jail. He gets raped a lot.
Skyler...well...she might get absconded from the drug stuff, but I have a feeling that she's going to get nailed for the Benecke stuff. No, the car wash is gone. That much was obvious when Skyler had to get a job as a taxi dispatcher.
Saul is in Nebraska working as a car salesman.
The cops find the barrels of money. The DEA gets to keep it.
Yes, the Schwartzes absolutely give Walt Jr. the money. They are frightened little rabbits. They are counting down the days until they can give the money to Walt Jr. so they can once again walk out of their house.
 
2013-09-30 11:47:39 AM

Tuco'sTacos: I've always believed the axiom that we judge ourselves by our intentions while the world judges us on our actions. BrBa was a case study of this...


But which one is correct?
 
2013-09-30 12:00:03 PM

Lando Lincoln: rugman11: Walt was a horrible human being.  But that doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad ending.  Walt lost everything but his pride, which can be seen as a win since that was what was most valuable to him.  In that I think it was a mixed ending.

As for Jesse, everything you say could be attributed to Walt as well.  If Walt had been willing to walk away before Gus, or continue letting Jesse cook alone while collecting half of the money, or been willing to walk away after killing Gus, all those people would be alive.  Walt is as culpable as Jesse is, even ignoring the fact that it was actually the Nazis who killed Hank, Gomez, and Andrea.

I would argue that Walt was not a horrible human being. Walt making a drug that has caused so many problems in our society was bad, but Walt was providing a product - he wasn't putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy the product. The junkies that bought the product were more culpable than Walt was in their suffering. Walt truly did care for his family, and this was shown many, many times throughout the series. Walt cared way too much for Jesse, and his caring for him led to many problems at the end. Walt also temporarily poisoned Brock, and caused Brock's mom and Brock's grandma and Jesse a lot of emotional stress over that. But Walt carefully administered the dosage and Brock came out of the event with no complications. What other horrible things did Walt do? He ran over and shot two murderers. He watched a blackmailing junkie die. He strangled / asphyxiated two drug dealers that were planning on stabbing / shooting him. He ruined a room full of evidence with a giant magnet. He wrecked a medical supply room door with thermite and stole a barrel of chemicals. He stole a lot of chemistry equipment from his high school. He lied to a lot of people. He robbed a train of 1,000 gallons of methylamine and replaced it with water. He shot and killed a hitman. He arranged for the killing of a crooked lawyer
and 10 other criminal underlings.


Walt was a man who didn't care about consequences.  In the beginning he wasn't a terrible person, but as the show went along and as he got deeper into it, he became worse.  I notice that you left off the two actions that people most often point to when talking about Walt's moral center.  He allowed Jane to die for no reason other than that she was a threat to him.  And he arranged and ordered the murder of Gale Boetticher, another man whose only sin was being a potential threat to Walter White.  Not to his family, but to Walter.

And he poisoned a kid.  You can try to sweep that under the rug with "controlled dosages" but, again, Walt doesn't care about consequences.  If Brock had died he might have been sad, but the end result would have been the same: convincing Jesse to turn against Gus.

As for the bolded part, just because he cared for his family doesn't mean he did all this for them.  Hell, he said as much last night.  He didn't make meth to help his family, he did it because "[he] liked it.  [He] was good at it.  It made [him] feel alive."  That's what I've been trying to argue for the last month.  He didn't care what happened to his family or he would have gotten out when the Schwartzes offered to pay his medical bills or when the cancer went into remission.
 Walt couldn't have walked away before Gus. Well...he COULD have, but that would have saddled his family with financial hardship, and that wasn't acceptable to Walt. Once he got involved with Gus, eventually he had enough money, but Gus was gunning for him and told Walter that he was going to murder Walt's family, and it was obvious that Gus wasn't going to let Jesse live either, so the only way he was going to get out of his relationship with Gus was by eliminating Gus.


Walt did walk away.  At the beginning of season three, Walt was out of the game.  Hell, Jesse was cooking and Gus was paying Walt half of the cut just for his intellectual property.  He could have sat back and let the money come in.  But he couldn't stand the idea that Jesse was making a product that was as good (or nearly so) as his own.  He was in remission.  As I said, the Schwartzes had agreed to pay his medical bills.  He could have walked away free and clear, but his pride got in the way and everything that followed was the result of Walt not being willing to give up the thing that he liked and was good at.
 
2013-09-30 12:05:38 PM

RoyBatty: Walt being shot by his own gun is not some amazing form of poetic justice. By that point, I am sure Walter didn't care so long as the Nazis died.


You could look at this way.  Walter taking the bullet saved Jesse's life.  Walt probably had about a week left to live, when you lose that much weight that fast, it's pretty much game over.  I also believe you guys are  overanalyzing  the ricin packet.  He had his coughing fit and switched them out.  Walt isn;t one to leave that to chance and have a waiter clean it from the table before Lydia & Todd sat down.

Jesse will end up a nutjob.  No one can go through what he did (2 loves of his life dead, twice a drug slave, and being an addict) and not be Loco from it.  Marie's fate was kinda left in limbo, but she really was just a minor character anyway.  I think she had a white top on in the finale
 
2013-09-30 12:08:31 PM

Gunderson: RoyBatty: Walt being shot by his own gun is not some amazing form of poetic justice. By that point, I am sure Walter didn't care so long as the Nazis died.

You could look at this way.  Walter taking the bullet saved Jesse's life.  Walt probably had about a week left to live, when you lose that much weight that fast, it's pretty much game over.  I also believe you guys are  overanalyzing  the ricin packet.  He had his coughing fit and switched them out.  Walt isn;t one to leave that to chance and have a waiter clean it from the table before Lydia & Todd sat down.

Jesse will end up a nutjob.  No one can go through what he did (2 loves of his life dead, twice a drug slave, and being an addict) and not be Loco from it.  Marie's fate was kinda left in limbo, but she really was just a minor character anyway.  I think she had a white top on in the finale


What's the significance of the white top? She called Skylar from her own house, so it's not as if she was in a lockup or mental institution (if that's what you were implying).
 
2013-09-30 12:13:18 PM
I've seen comments in here saying it was the best series finale EVAR!
I've seen comments in here saying it was just another Breaking Bad episode - hard to beat the rest when you've raised the bar so high.
I've seen comments in here saying the series finale was really "To'hajiilee" and "Ozymandias", and these last two were just mopping up.

You're all correct; the series had an internal guide, integrity, and fulfilled itself to the end. Stephen King should take note: more than one story has ended with a surprising, disingenuous turn.
 
2013-09-30 12:13:24 PM

redmid17: What's the significance of the white top? She called Skylar from her own house, so it's not as if she was in a lockup or mental institution (if that's what you were implying).


If I was a gambling man, I would say that the white stands for purity, or in this case, a new beginning.  No Hank, No Walt, barely speaking to Skylar.  She has no one else with her, so she needs to start a new life with a clean slate
 
2013-09-30 12:14:24 PM

redmid17: What's the significance of the white top? She called Skylar from her own house, so it's not as if she was in a lockup or mental institution (if that's what you were implying).


Seems like she is almost always wearing nothing but purple. Perhaps that's what he meant.
 
2013-09-30 12:16:55 PM
I loved the finale and the show but, as unpopular as this is going to be, I don't think Lydia deserved the ending she got. As far as meth distributing villains who have no qualms about ordering the deaths of over a dozen people go, Lydia seemed exceedingly normal. The writers did a fantastic job portraying her as a business woman, who doesn't act out of bloodlust, rage, or ignorance of any other way of life. She never even appeared all that interested in her work.

I'm not going to suggest an alternate because I don't want to be one of those people who tries to out-Vince Gilligan Vince Gilligan, but if she had to go I think I would have preferred something more quick and definite like Gus. Something that says, "Hey, it's the business: you gotta pay some day." The ricin seems more appropriate for someone like Jack or Todd. In fact, I'd like to think Lydia wound up with some permanent but survivable organ damage only to be picked up by the police within a few days. But since it's obvious what was supposed to happen, I kinda feel bad for the little weasel.
 
2013-09-30 12:17:48 PM

SlothB77: Lots of loose ends remain for me:

What does Jessie do?  Badger/ Skinny Pete reunion?

He's free to do what he wants, finally in control of his own destiny. No Walt or Nazis pulling him back in. That's all that really matters as far as his story goes. Maybe he'll become a carpenter and make boxes.

What happens to Sky?  Does she get off?  Does she get to keep the car wash?
Walt's speech to her over the phone a couple episodes ago was him trying to get over how unwilling she was to be a part of any crimes committed. Walt also seemed to believe that Hank's location on the lottery ticket might be enough of a bargaining chip to help her make a deal.

What does Saul do?  He is in nebraska, right?  Does he become a corn farmer?
If he's lucky he'll end up managing a Cinnabon in Omaha.

Where is the money?  Who finds it?  Who gets to keep it?
Who really cares? If the Nazis left it at the compound then the DEA gets it. If they buried it somewhere else it'll probably stay there forever.

Do the Schwartzes actually give Walt Jr the money?
Why wouldn't they?
 
2013-09-30 12:25:12 PM

The Great EZE: I loved the finale and the show but, as unpopular as this is going to be, I don't think Lydia deserved the ending she got. As far as meth distributing villains who have no qualms about ordering the deaths of over a dozen people go, Lydia seemed exceedingly normal. The writers did a fantastic job portraying her as a business woman, who doesn't act out of bloodlust, rage, or ignorance of any other way of life. She never even appeared all that interested in her work.


She tried to order Todd to kill Skylar because she saw her once.

As Mike said: And now you're being sexist. Trust me, this woman deserves to die as much as any man I've ever met."
 
2013-09-30 12:27:02 PM
Sorry it wasn't that great of a finale. Taken with the last couple episodes it sort of becomes a great last season, but just on its own this one episode was slow paced, and amounted to him hopping from place to place to tie everything up in unrealistically neat bow.

Tohalijee or whatever was a much better episode. So was Ozymandias.
 
2013-09-30 12:29:40 PM

js34603: Sorry it wasn't that great of a finale. Taken with the last couple episodes it sort of becomes a great last season, but just on its own this one episode was slow paced, and amounted to him hopping from place to place to tie everything up in unrealistically neat bow.

Tohalijee or whatever was a much better episode. So was Ozymandias.


Considering that was the climax of the series that isn't surprising. The last two episodes were aftermaths and resolutions.
 
2013-09-30 12:30:00 PM
I think it's truly indicative of the powerful, destructive nature of Heisenberg/WW.  Even the audience is left reeling from his departure from the show and leaving us with nothing but broken pieces of his selfish wrath.  I've never been so emotionally affected by a television show than I have by Breaking Bad.
 
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