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(TampaBay.com (St. Petersburg Tim)   "Breaking Bad finale may rank as the greatest achievement in our modern Golden Age of Television", biatch   (tampabay.com) divider line 296
    More: Cool, Breaking Bad, Golden Age of Television, golden age, final episode, Jesse Pinkman, suicide missions, Anna Gunn, Vince Gilligan  
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3369 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 30 Sep 2013 at 7:19 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-30 08:27:47 AM  
No ambiguous endings?

OK, so this is what follows:

Jesse races to Andrea's house, only to find out, obviously, that Brock went to a Catholic orphanage, where he has been sexually and physically abused over the last year by a wicked old priest that oversees the place. Jesse raises a scene, but is dragged away by police, who are all too aware of his involvement in the Mr. Heisenberg Drug Ring (but do NOT have the video confession he recorded, since the nazis destroyed it). With the primary suspect dead, somebody has to frogmarched into court and go to jail.

Brock will run away form the orphanage at age 14, and become a krocodil user, dying at the age of 16, with half his flesh gone from his arms. HE might have been hooked on Crystal MEth instead, but the crappy, artificially-colored blue meth was too expensive.

Lydia made it to the hospital to get treatment and recovered from her poisoning. With the quality blue meth gone, she turns to her Czech suppliers to get krocodil, and starts moving that onto the streets of New Mexico and the rest of the southwest.

Skyler got a plea deal, but even with years knocked off her money laundering and fraudulent books charges (Ted's crooked books finally caught their attention), she still ended up going to prison for 10 years. Her first day, some fellow inmate named Tara Knowles beats her up and steals her blankets, it gets worse for Skyler after that... she never makes it out of prison alive.

Flynn gets his money, but his despair over his mother, and separation from his sister (who went to some catholic orphanage on the bad side of town) has thrown him into a depression, and he turns to drugs. His friend Louis helps him spend the $9+million on drug-fueled parties and steals much of the cash, as well. Flynn dies at the age of 19 in a back alley in Prague, a dirty syringbe filled with... korcodil laying at his side.

Marie remarries, gets her kleptomania under control and has 6 kids.

Saul is slinging cinnabons at a mall in Omaha.

Badger and Skinny Pete found the laser thing so funny, they decided to mess with some guy sitting in a known DEA safe house who looks a lot like that bouncer guy from Saul's office. They play the lasers on him through the window, Huell has a fatal heart attack.
 
2013-09-30 08:29:09 AM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.

I've been watching it this weekend with the wife. She's a huge fan of it. I personally think it is overrated. It's ok but not oh my god good. It's best if you ingore the cancer and taking care of his family premise. Look at it as someone who's always had to hold back his true nature. The cancer giving him an excuse to do what he does


This is the driving force behind the last season of the show. You'll see how once you get there.
 
2013-09-30 08:29:48 AM  

DamnYankees: Confabulat: Lydia and Walt ALWAYS sat at that table at 10 AM.

She sat at a different table LAST WEEK! Seriously - just last week when she met Todd, they both sat at tables next to the window. The table in tonight's episode was a different table, not next to the window. I literally watched both episodes today, so unless I'm hallucinating, you're wrong.


Time stamp for each episode: E15 18:58, E16 21:58. It is the same table. Alone the windows outside the patio one table up from the emergency exit door. Plant to other side of the door.
 
2013-09-30 08:32:49 AM  

LesserEvil: Brock will run away form the orphanage at age 14, and become a krocodil user, dying at the age of 16, with half his flesh gone from his arms. HE might have been hooked on Crystal MEth instead, but the crappy, artificially-colored blue meth was too expensive.


Why would Brock be in an orphanage? We met his grandmother when he was in the hospital.
 
2013-09-30 08:33:22 AM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.

I've been watching it this weekend with the wife. She's a huge fan of it. I personally think it is overrated. It's ok but not oh my god good. It's best if you ingore the cancer and taking care of his family premise. Look at it as someone who's always had to hold back his true nature. The cancer giving him an excuse to do what he does


um, that's the point of the show...
 
2013-09-30 08:33:25 AM  

DamnYankees: My only issue - the Stevia thing didn't make sense. How and when did he put ricin inside the Stevia packet? How did he know she'd sit at that table; just last week she'd sat at a different one. Why did he need to tell her what he did - now that she knows, can't she get treatment? Sloppy.

Otherwise - absolutely great.


That was obvious as soon as you got that zoom shot of the powder dissolving into the tea.
Walt knew her routine and he played chess with her life and she lost. I thought it was nicely played.
Just like Badger and Skinny Pete getting into the car with Walt -- you didn't see that get set up either, but it happened.
 
2013-09-30 08:33:56 AM  

Incorrigible Astronaut: Mid_mo_mad_man: cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.

I've been watching it this weekend with the wife. She's a huge fan of it. I personally think it is overrated. It's ok but not oh my god good. It's best if you ingore the cancer and taking care of his family premise. Look at it as someone who's always had to hold back his true nature. The cancer giving him an excuse to do what he does

This is the driving force behind the last season of the show. You'll see how once you get there.




She's seen them all but this season. I had tried to watch it earlier but wasn't hooked. So we made a deal I watch Breaking Bad and she finally watches all three seasons of The Walking Dead.
 
2013-09-30 08:35:12 AM  
Some commenters in the live thread thought that Walt got off to light, but he's lost the love of his family, his reputation, and he saw his brother-in-law murdered in front of his eyes. His whole world ended in Ozymandius, last week in New Hampshire was his personal purgatory, the finale was him settling accounts before his end. There was a bit of redemption there once he admitted to Skyler where he had gone wrong, but I feel his stay in Purgatory made the small redemption possible.

I mean, the Wonder Emporium movie itself is way darker than any hell Dante imagined.
 
2013-09-30 08:36:03 AM  
The series climax was in the 3rd to the last episode, "To'hajiilee," with Walt finally getting arrested by Hank, then Hank getting killed. Everything came together in that episode.
 
2013-09-30 08:36:40 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: DamnYankees: Just like Badger and Skinny Pete getting into the car with Walt -- you didn't see that get set up either, but it happened.


As soon as I saw them even with their masks on I knew who those two were
 
2013-09-30 08:37:51 AM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: I've been watching it this weekend with the wife. She's a huge fan of it. I personally think it is overrated. It's ok but not oh my god good. It's best if you ingore the cancer and taking care of his family premise. Look at it as someone who's always had to hold back his true nature. The cancer giving him an excuse to do what he does


So the show is best if you focus on what is actually the point of the show? who would have thought! if you're watching Breaking Bad to see Walt cook meth and fight cancer... you're gonna have a bad time.
 
2013-09-30 08:39:53 AM  

Carth: LesserEvil: Brock will run away form the orphanage at age 14, and become a krocodil user, dying at the age of 16, with half his flesh gone from his arms. HE might have been hooked on Crystal MEth instead, but the crappy, artificially-colored blue meth was too expensive.

Why would Brock be in an orphanage? We met his grandmother when he was in the hospital.


She was killed by a carjacker shortly after Brock's hospital visit. Actually one of Tuco's old gang members, but with him gone, they turned to petty street crimes.
 
2013-09-30 08:47:28 AM  

Mad_Radhu: I mean, the Wonder Emporium movie itself is way darker than any hell Dante imagined.


Even the director of that abomination admitted to it

DamnYankees: now that she knows, can't she get treatment?


In heavy enough doses all you can do is make the patient comfortable and wait for death

Fallout Zone: Ozymandias was the episode that the other finales should be compared to. The last two episodes were just a fantastic slow-burn of tension.


This, the finale started with 14, 15 and 16 were just conclusions and wrap ups.
 
2013-09-30 08:51:04 AM  
BUT WHAR IS MONEY
 
2013-09-30 08:58:08 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.


Likewise.
 
2013-09-30 08:58:23 AM  
Brilliant show, bad ending.
Walt was a more interesting and complex character when he was exiled to New Hampshire dying of cancer alone, hated and unable to give his family his money. And then, the last episode. Everything that happens after he leaves New Hampshire breaks his way. The last episode is him succeeding in setting his family up with money, avenging his honour, and dying on his own terms, satisfied.
In one episode he turned from the man who was finally suffering the consequences of continually over-estimating his own genius back into the guy who's simply smarter and luckier than everyone.
/ He had no plans to survive the showdown with the Nazis (remember when he was so fascinated by the ending of Scarface?). He was always going to die. It's weird he gets to die satisfied, not feeling an ounce of the suffering Jesse has.
 
2013-09-30 09:00:51 AM  

RumsfeldsReplacement: BUT WHAR IS MONEY


Oh, forgot that wrap up...

Wendy the prostitute wanders into the nazi compound after the police have cleaned out the meth lab and guns, looking for a place to crash. As she tries the doors on various buildings, she finds one that she can bang open, and sees 6 barrels sitting in the middle of the storage shed, apparently left by police who were more than satisfied with finding the blue meth lab, guns and all the dead criminals to be bothered with checking the outlier buildings. Curious, she takes the lid off to discover the cash.

Wendy would parlay the cash into a successful line of Designer Home Furnishings, and turn that into a multi-media empire. The "W" Network opened to rave reviews.
 
2013-09-30 09:04:47 AM  
If you look at the form of classic dramatic structure, you see that the plot develops and rises to a peak of action, then there is falling action leading to the denouement, or resolution.

The plot climax of the series was the "To'hajiilee" shootout.
The last two episodes were just to clean up the loose ends, to resolve the drama.

Very classic narrative form.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_structure
 
2013-09-30 09:05:14 AM  

TeamEd: Brilliant show, bad ending.
Walt was a more interesting and complex character when he was exiled to New Hampshire dying of cancer alone, hated and unable to give his family his money. And then, the last episode. Everything that happens after he leaves New Hampshire breaks his way. The last episode is him succeeding in setting his family up with money, avenging his honour, and dying on his own terms, satisfied.
In one episode he turned from the man who was finally suffering the consequences of continually over-estimating his own genius back into the guy who's simply smarter and luckier than everyone.
/ He had no plans to survive the showdown with the Nazis (remember when he was so fascinated by the ending of Scarface?). He was always going to die. It's weird he gets to die satisfied, not feeling an ounce of the suffering Jesse has.


You've watched the whole show, right?

Everything ALWAYS breaks his way. It's a dark comedy. The anti-hero dies, but doesn't suffer - it's a trade-off between the fans who identify WITH Walt and those who don't.

"Look... look, you two guys are just... guys, okay? Mr. White... he's the devil. You know, he is... he is smarter than you, he is luckier than you. Whatever... whatever you think is supposed to happen... I'm telling you, the exact reverse opposite of that is gonna happen, okay?"

 
2013-09-30 09:08:50 AM  
/But in addition to the typical dramatic structure, BB also ends in typically Shakespearean tragic style with the deaths at the end, particularly of our favorite antihero, Walt.
 
2013-09-30 09:11:22 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: /But in addition to the typical dramatic structure, BB also ends in typically Shakespearean tragic style with the deaths at the end, particularly of our favorite antihero, Walt.


There's that quote from Mr. Magorium: "When King Lear dies in Act V, do you know what Shakespeare has written? He's written "He dies." That's all, nothing more. No fanfare, no metaphor, no brilliant final words. The culmination of the most influential work of dramatic literature is "He dies." It takes Shakespeare, a genius, to come up with "He dies." And yet every time I read those two words, I find myself overwhelmed with dysphoria. And I know it's only natural to be sad, but not because of the words "He dies." but because of the life we saw prior to the words."

Walt always was the White King.
 
2013-09-30 09:14:13 AM  

Beer cap: I still want to know what Walt planned on doing if he had survived the M-60 carnage.


He didn't plan on surviving. That seems pretty obvious,

Jumping on Jesse (on the pretense of "fighting" him) was a last minute decision to save Jesse after seeing that he had been enslaved by the nazis.
 
2013-09-30 09:15:33 AM  

Carth: Walt always was the White King.


The chess game in the fire house called that out
 
2013-09-30 09:19:44 AM  
It wasn't bad or anything, but I was totally underwhelmed. Everything happened exactly how I thought it would going into the finale. For a show that has always kept me guessing, was kinda disappointed.
 
2013-09-30 09:26:25 AM  
It is still unclear to me if Walt dies in the lab or not.  he got shot once, in the side and was lying there.  But is he dead or just wounded?
 
2013-09-30 09:29:45 AM  

Champion of the Sun: It wasn't bad or anything, but I was totally underwhelmed. Everything happened exactly how I thought it would going into the finale. For a show that has always kept me guessing, was kinda disappointed.


This.  Great show, just a below average example from it.  The episode was a total sellout, gratuitous hollywood ending.  Would have liked to see Lydia survive the ricin, maybe with liver damage, perhaps even facing a sentence.  Todd should have been killed in more believable terms other than stacking up unbelievable odds.

The 8 episode split probably pushed the writers against the wall as far as time.  Stuff like the machine gun and laser pointers stretched believability.  The writers are clever enough to fix it with another hour or so.  Just a little more detail in places would have cleaned things up tremendously.
 
2013-09-30 09:30:03 AM  

DamnYankees: Confabulat: Lydia and Walt ALWAYS sat at that table at 10 AM.

She sat at a different table LAST WEEK! Seriously - just last week when she met Todd, they both sat at tables next to the window. The table in tonight's episode was a different table, not next to the window. I literally watched both episodes today, so unless I'm hallucinating, you're wrong.


Walt is in the restaurant the entire time.  If they sit at a different table or someone else sits at that table, Walt will see that and switch the ricin packet out.  Walt is hovering nearby watching intently the whole time.
 
2013-09-30 09:31:41 AM  
Why did Walt poison Lydia?  She posed no threat to him that I remember.  Just because she is inherently bad because she is peddling meth?
 
2013-09-30 09:31:47 AM  
It might've been predictable, but it gave a fitting send-off to every major character (well, except for Marie, but f*ck Marie), and I have yet to hear anybody come up with a better way to wrap things up.
 
2013-09-30 09:33:30 AM  

SlothB77: It is still unclear to me if Walt dies in the lab or not.  he got shot once, in the side and was lying there.  But is he dead or just wounded?


I don't think it matters in the end. The cancer would have claimed him soon if the bullet hadn't.
 
2013-09-30 09:34:32 AM  

RaceBoatDriver: The 8 episode split probably pushed the writers against the wall as far as time. Stuff like the machine gun and laser pointers stretched believability. The writers are clever enough to fix it with another hour or so. Just a little more detail in places would have cleaned things up tremendously.


There was supposed to be another 8 episodes but AMC or rather Sony wouldn't give Vince the budget he asked for so they condensed it down
 
2013-09-30 09:36:22 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: If you look at the form of classic dramatic structure, you see that the plot develops and rises to a peak of action, then there is falling action leading to the denouement, or resolution.

The plot climax of the series was the "To'hajiilee" shootout.
The last two episodes were just to clean up the loose ends, to resolve the drama.

Very classic narrative form.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dramatic_structure


That's where a lot of shows fail. They leave the climax right to the very end, not leaving any time for the story to wind down naturally.
 
2013-09-30 09:37:22 AM  

SlothB77: Why did Walt poison Lydia?  She posed no threat to him that I remember.  Just because she is inherently bad because she is peddling meth?


Except she wanted to kill his wife (yea he didn't know that until the next scene)? Mike told her she needed to be killed and once his ego was out of the way he realized she was right.
 
2013-09-30 09:39:53 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.


It's over-hyped sure, but it was still a great show.  I'm not sure if it's fit to be called the greatest show ever or anything, but definitely worth watching.
 
2013-09-30 09:45:39 AM  

cman: It was good, but the best ever?

That is different

It was your average Breaking Bad episode. Its hard to have the best episode ever when you have risen the bar that high


Finales are tough and have plenty of pitfalls.  First, a series is lucky if they go out on their own terms and aren't cancelled beforehand (Firefly).  Then there's the difficulty of wrapping up the plot (LOST failed this pretty badly).  There is a question of whether or not to focus on fan-service or back to the first episodes (Burn Notice slipped about every line from their opening sequence into their final episode).  And then the finale still has to be good (Looking at you, Dexter).

Breaking Bad's finale is well done since it met all of these quite well.  Other than maybe Six Feet Under, finales are rarely the best episode.
 
2013-09-30 09:46:11 AM  
Yeah, Walt got Lydia with the vial of ricin.  But the conclusion left wide open who would fall to the ricin cigarette.  And I still have no idea how Leaves of Grass got in Hank's bathroom.  And is Gale alive?  It sure looked like Jesse pointed the gun away at the last moment.  So many unanswered questions . . .
 
2013-09-30 09:46:31 AM  
One thing I don't get is why did Walt shoot Jack when he was just going to die from that ricin cigarette anyway?
 
2013-09-30 09:47:51 AM  

HighOnCraic: I liked the fact that he woke up in bed with his wife, Emily Lois, and realized that the whole show was just a weird dream.


FTFY.
 
2013-09-30 09:48:13 AM  

Mad_Radhu: SlothB77: It is still unclear to me if Walt dies in the lab or not.  he got shot once, in the side and was lying there.  But is he dead or just wounded?

I don't think it matters in the end. The cancer would have claimed him soon if the bullet hadn't.


He survived his last bout with cancer.  i know this time he wasn't really treating it, but i guess he was caught anyhow and would be spending the rest of his life, however long it may be, in jail if he was still alive.
 
2013-09-30 09:51:13 AM  

SlothB77: Mad_Radhu: SlothB77: It is still unclear to me if Walt dies in the lab or not.  he got shot once, in the side and was lying there.  But is he dead or just wounded?

I don't think it matters in the end. The cancer would have claimed him soon if the bullet hadn't.

He survived his last bout with cancer.  i know this time he wasn't really treating it, but i guess he was caught anyhow and would be spending the rest of his life, however long it may be, in jail if he was still alive.


He really didn't survive so much as he bought himself some time before it went out if remission. Last episode made it clear the cancer was back with a vengeance.
 
2013-09-30 09:51:50 AM  
Lots of loose ends remain for me:

What does Jessie do?  Badger/ Skinny Pete reunion?
What happens to Sky?  Does she get off?  Does she get to keep the car wash?
What does Saul do?  He is in nebraska, right?  Does he become a corn farmer?
Where is the money?  Who finds it?  Who gets to keep it?
Do the Schwartzes actually give Walt Jr the money?
 
2013-09-30 09:52:06 AM  
And that he wasn't faking it to make people like Hank feel pity on him.
 
2013-09-30 09:53:15 AM  
Walt's last scene alive, stroking the apparatus fondly, a homage to chemistry which along with his family was the love of his life - his last goodbye.
So powerful.
Plus I said this in the main thread but want to say it one more time, I defy anyone who has been divorced or lost a significant other not to feel overwhelmed at the scene where he one by one sees his family for the last time.
So powerful.
The show might or might not have set a new bar, that's a matter of opinion, but those two scenes will stay with me like the final minutes of the last episode of Six Feet Under.
I'll take a break from televized drama now, always sensible at times like this as nothing else will come close for a while.
 
2013-09-30 09:56:21 AM  

DamnYankees: I also do wish we had a little more emotional resolution for Jesse. All that happens is that he's set free, but he still has absolutely nothing in his life, Andrea is still dead, and he's emotionally tortured. Jesse didn't get a denoument - he'll probably die of drug overdose within a few months.


That's the point. It's a metaphor for Jesse's character arc - you said it yourself, he was set free.
 
2013-09-30 09:58:37 AM  
Shostie: I'd say the true finale came with the last two episodes.

This was just mopping up and turning off the lights.


I 100% agree with this.  Some of the best TV shows have ended this way.  While not even remotely in the same genre, Babylon 5 was one of my favorite story-arc based TV shows, and it's "Finale" was really the last 3-4 episodes, with the actual last episode being more of a "epilogue" than an end-all-be-all finale.

Breaking Bad was the same way for me.  The finale was really the last 3 episodes, with last night's being the epilogue after the story was over.

Really well executed and done all the way around IMO
 
2013-09-30 10:02:49 AM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: Yeah, Walt got Lydia with the vial of ricin.  But the conclusion left wide open who would fall to the ricin cigarette.  And I still have no idea how Leaves of Grass got in Hank's bathroom.  And is Gale alive?  It sure looked like Jesse pointed the gun away at the last moment.  So many unanswered questions . . .


You know, you had me going there for a minute.
 
2013-09-30 10:05:52 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: It's precisely this type of overhyped, breathless article that made me never watch the show to begin with.


You are certainly better off not knowing this show. You might have liked it. And that would have just totally ruined it for you.
 
2013-09-30 10:12:28 AM  
I've never seen this show but plan to watch it on netflix at some point. Up until recently I didn't know it was on regular TV. I thought it was an HBO show and I don't have HBO otherwise I probably would have checked it out sooner. Didn't want to jump in in the middle though so I'll watch start to finish on NF.
 
2013-09-30 10:14:05 AM  
I love that people were complaining that Walt had no idea what he was doing with the large machine gun.  The first scene with the gun?  That's right, MANUAL biatch!  Walt is a man of science, he reads the goddamn manual.  BOOM!
 
2013-09-30 10:21:53 AM  

DamnYankees: I also do wish we had a little more emotional resolution for Jesse. All that happens is that he's set free, but he still has absolutely nothing in his life, Andrea is still dead, and he's emotionally tortured. Jesse didn't get a denoument - he'll probably die of drug overdose within a few months.


I have to agree.  He drove off, laughing maniacally.  He has nothing.  He saw two women he loved die, he's been beaten, betrayed, disowned by his family.

But in another way, it works.  Not having the closure isn't satisfying, but it is unsettling.  If that's what the writers wanted, it works.
 
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