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(News.com.au)   Sweden getting all snippy about circumcision?   (news.com.au) divider line 40
    More: Stupid, Sweden, Sweden Democrats, United Nations Convention, theocracies  
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2379 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Sep 2013 at 3:42 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-09-29 05:27:33 PM
6 votes:

HairBolus: it the operation is delayed to an age where consent can be given they fear many would prefer to reject religion rather than have a painful operation.


Exactly. "If we give them the choice, they might not do it. So we better do it to them while they can't object."
2013-09-29 03:56:31 PM
5 votes:
Circumcision really isn't necessary in this day and age, but it seems really weird for people to get so worked up about it. A lot of these anti-circumcision folks come off as crazy as most of the mens' rights advocates (who occasionally bring up a good point, but are drowned out by the lunacy).
2013-09-30 02:25:01 AM
4 votes:
It all boils down to adults cutting off pieces of their children to please their imaginary friends.

Barbaric doesn't even begin to describe a society that allows this.
2013-09-29 09:30:55 PM
3 votes:

msP: I dated a guy who wasn't circumcised who showered every day and it still always smelled disgusting and turned me off.


Have you stuck your face in a bunch of women's crotches and taken a sniff?

What if research shows that women who have been circumcised (just removal of clitoral hood and labia minor) smell somewhat better than natural women? Would you favor female infant circumcision?

Fat women tend to smell worse than the more slender, What if circumcision mainly helps fat women be less smelly. Would you favor infant circumcision because the infant may grow up to be fat?

A pro-circ argument that brings up cleanliness or visual appeal that doesn't address the same issues for women is one-sided.
2013-09-29 05:35:44 PM
3 votes:
I'm snipped. My son is not. It really wasn't hard to ... not make such a decision for him.

The "sensitivity" argument is bullshiat.
2013-09-29 04:25:55 PM
3 votes:
People, we're missing the bigger issue here.

Where's the weeners tag?
2013-09-29 04:25:03 PM
3 votes:
When my son was born, the nurses and doctors didn't even ask if we were considering circumcision. It's pretty much not an option in hospitals around here (eastern Canada).

Why is it even legal to slice off bits of a child's body without a solid medical reason and several attending doctors agreeing that it's the only viable course of treatment?

If someone mutilated me as a baby, or allowed me to be mutilated, I'd be VERY pissed off at them as an adult.
2013-09-29 03:59:17 PM
3 votes:
Oh this thread again.

/Thanks mom & dad for making me awesome.
2013-09-29 03:50:31 PM
3 votes:
So they're banning unnecessary cosmetic surgery on infants. I presume the tag is for those who're outraged by this.
2013-09-29 12:05:20 PM
3 votes:
Makes total sense. Other than backwards barbaric religious purposes, there's never been any reason for this operation. All the "cleanliness" and "prevents disease" reasoning they came up with have been thoroughly debunked.
2013-09-30 10:38:01 AM
2 votes:

Egoy3k: I don't consider myself damaged goods


Most men don't even though the snipping crowd likes to build the strawman that we are all trying to stop genital mutilation out of some sort of anger.

The fact is that the pro-snipping crowd's position usually boils down to some or all of 3 arguments:

- Religion - their invisible friend doesn't like foreskin (or maybe he likes it too much)

- cleanliness - they are too lazy to teach a child to clean themselves - they probably would cut ears off as well if they could (dirt hides behind them)

- hiv transmission - they are afraid that their baby is going to have a lot of unprotected sex - or they don't trust him to make the decision about his own body as an adult - so they are taking the decision about his own body away from him. Freedom!!

Personally I do not believe that any of the above justifies surgery on a baby. It is that simple.
2013-09-30 01:55:35 AM
2 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: GodComplex: I've always felt that people who are concerned with the look of children's penii need to have a seat over there. Seriously, the anti-circ people rank above the bronies on creepiness scale.

puzzleddog.jpeg


I gather you have difficulty understanding the viewpoints of people who don't agree with you. I find the anti-circ crowd to be creepy in their obsession with children's penii. Especially the penii of children who are not theirs. I don't see the pro-circ crowd trying to force everyone to have circumcision whereas the anti crowd is trying to get it banned. Therefore I must conclude they spend too much time thinking about the genitals of children and I find that creepy.
2013-09-29 10:49:03 PM
2 votes:
After a long discussion with the wife, we decided that it was not our body and when they are old enough they can make the decision for themselves.

Wouldn't you rather your parents left it up to you?
2013-09-29 07:08:23 PM
2 votes:
I'm OK with this. Leave the sexy bits intact on both sexes. Why should the man be forced to experience less sexual sensation. We've known about the benefits of hygiene for decades!

/snipped...
2013-09-29 05:52:29 PM
2 votes:
As a man who had it happen when I was old enough to remember, I prefer being snipped.

Speculation from either party how much sensitivity  which type has is retarded.  May as well be a man telling women what it's like to be a woman for all you actually know.

Thing about sensitivity is that it varies per individual and the human body/mind are amazingly adaptive organisms.  There is no steadfast rule that one can logically argue that applies to every circumsized and every uncircumsized penis, no matter which side you favor.

Some circumcisions have a negative effect.  Problems with uncirc'd such as minor malformations and infections also occur.

Yeah, you can teach your kid to clean himself, but how well will that realistically pan out for everyone?  There are a vast number of males(child on into teens) that almost refuse to shower, much less give it a real effort.

I see no real problem with keeping it optional.  Calling it barbaric is an argument from absurdity, some of you would likely make the same argument towards trimming your own pubic hair(ie "who wants a partner that looks like a bald little kid!?"  Be honest, that's a fairly common opinion on fark as well.

The botched circumcision is the biggest real problem here as far as I am concerned.  We could focus better on informing parents of the risks, and regulating the procedure to minimize risk by standardizing methods and treatment afterwards.  Letting a skeevy old man who can't see simply go at it with a pair of rusty scissors shouldn't be happening, but it more or less does.

It may be a mite painful, but it's an newborn fetus we're talking about here(most of the time), just about everything they experience is pain.  None of us remember much of anything from before we started school, much less mere days after being born. Most of you don't really remember the last time you stubbed your toe really bad unless it was really recently.

Circ'd men don't turn into psychopath killers, nor do they take 3 hours to orgasm because they are just not sensitive enough.

A lot of retarded fallacy arguments from people who don't want other people to have a choice and want to legislate how others live their lives, same as any other hot topic.

/makes me wonder if fallacy - phallus have a common ancestor
// and feces - facetious(ie being shiatty)

As to the topic of which is better based on personal experience:

I much prefer being snipped, like I said.  Nothing better than feeling friction on the skin go all the way down the shaft, as opposed to loose skin that's wriggled up and down.  A good way to convey that that people having trouble picturing it....  Run a feather up and down your arm lightly until you get goosebumps.  Then tape the feather to your arm and just move your skin as much as you can.

Sure, there is wide variety in shape and form in circ'd men, but for many, the above is just the way it is for at least part of the shaft.

I say 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.  The "stop liking what I don't like" argument is tired and lame.
2013-09-30 03:34:52 PM
1 votes:

GodComplex: Uncle Tractor: GodComplex: Well, I don't consider it abuse, cause by the logic that dictates it's abuse, also dictates that vaccines are abuse.

You're comparing genital mutilation with vaccines? Really?

But if it helps you justify your moral superiority, then by all means continue to be a pedophile busybody demanding the government tell people to raise their kids in accordance with your beliefs.

Now I know you're trollin'. Or crazy.

How cute, it's genital mutilation now. Ya know, if you call eggs coont rocks, it doesn't make them any less delicious. I get it, you're obsessed with children's dicks. Your parents didn't love you enough and now you feel the urge to broadcast to the world how you know better than anyone about how to raise kids. I've met you people before, you're really creepy in your obsession. Don't want your kid snipped, great happy to hear, now quit telling everyone they need to follow your example or they're horrible abusive people who hate kids.

And yes vaccines. The argument is you're forcibly changing a child for your beliefs, guess what, vaccinations change the immune system for your beliefs and guess what, there is a chance your kid could die from vaccinations. You should just let them choose whether or not to be vaccinated when they're older. Or you could ya know, be a parent and decide what's best for your kid like we've been doing since time
imemorable.

Again, you have your opinion, that's great, just don't go around telling everyone you're a better parent than them.


The anti circ crowd is saying to leave little boys the fark alone.
The pro circ crowd wants them to force little boys to have unnecessary cosmetic surgery on their peeners. Cosmetic reasons are frequently cited.

I'm sorry but who is the pedo here?
2013-09-30 11:37:05 AM
1 votes:

Fafai: Also, you don't hear a lot of body shaming about cut dicks like you do with the gross/smegma/anteater jokemaking crowd.



I completely discount the cosmetic argument as nothing more that child abuse from a vain, shallow person. It can't be considered as serious argument in support of unnecessary surgery on an infant. Not in a civilized world anyway.
2013-09-30 10:44:17 AM
1 votes:

Farking Canuck: Egoy3k: I don't consider myself damaged goods

Most men don't even though the snipping crowd likes to build the strawman that we are all trying to stop genital mutilation out of some sort of anger.

The fact is that the pro-snipping crowd's position usually boils down to some or all of 3 arguments:

- Religion - their invisible friend doesn't like foreskin (or maybe he likes it too much)

- cleanliness - they are too lazy to teach a child to clean themselves - they probably would cut ears off as well if they could (dirt hides behind them)

- hiv transmission - they are afraid that their baby is going to have a lot of unprotected sex - or they don't trust him to make the decision about his own body as an adult - so they are taking the decision about his own body away from him. Freedom!!

Personally I do not believe that any of the above justifies surgery on a baby. It is that simple.


Also, you don't hear a lot of body shaming about cut dicks like you do with the gross/smegma/anteater jokemaking crowd. Ironically the pro-circs are more likely to consider an intact penis as "damaged goods" just by virtue of not having the procedure. They've got this nonsensical attitude where theirs is somehow the more "natural" choice.
2013-09-30 09:20:45 AM
1 votes:

GodComplex: Well, I don't consider it abuse, cause by the logic that dictates it's abuse, also dictates that vaccines are abuse.


You're comparing genital mutilation with vaccines? Really?

But if it helps you justify your moral superiority, then by all means continue to be a pedophile busybody demanding the government tell people to raise their kids in accordance with your beliefs.

Now I know you're trollin'. Or crazy.
2013-09-30 08:51:34 AM
1 votes:
Jim_Callahan:

Earrings make a lot of sense, actually-- think of them as basically cow tags.  Even the most amazing speaker in the world couldn't describe their kid to a stranger in any way that said stranger could be able to distinguish it from any other crawly little bastard in the world, they all look about the same and parents only know theirs through close personal association.

But slap an ear-tag on that farker and if you lose him all you have to say to the people helping you look for the git is "it's the baby with the orange earring in his right ear" and the whole clothing store or whatever can give you a hand.


And this goes back to what I was saying before. take care of your self first (ie: be responsible enough to be able to take baby to a dept store without misplacing her), and then you can be empowered enough to own that responsibility and not fall back on others to look for an orange earring.

/Which can come off.

//Maybe that other farker is right and tattooing the forehead is the way to go if you're gonna do it that way.
2013-09-30 08:40:12 AM
1 votes:

Uncle Tractor: GodComplex: And why should I care what someone else does with their child?

[i560.photobucket.com image 500x224]

Do you feel the same way about other forms of child abuse or just genital mutilation? I'm asking, because some of those children will be living in your neighborhood when they grow up.


Well, I don't consider it abuse, cause by the logic that dictates it's abuse, also dictates that vaccines are abuse. But if it helps you justify your moral superiority, then by all means continue to be a pedophile busybody demanding the government tell people to raise their kids in accordance with your beliefs.

But honestly, I don't care. What other people do to with their kids is none of my business and it's not your business either.
2013-09-30 07:02:25 AM
1 votes:

GodComplex: And why should I care what someone else does with their child?


i560.photobucket.com

Do you feel the same way about other forms of child abuse or just genital mutilation? I'm asking, because some of those children will be living in your neighborhood when they grow up.
2013-09-30 04:18:07 AM
1 votes:

GodComplex: I find the anti-circ crowd to be creepy in their obsession with children's penii. Especially the penii of children who are not theirs. I don't see the pro-circ crowd trying to force everyone to have circumcision whereas the anti crowd is trying to get it banned.


It's child abuse. Even though it's not our children being abused, it's still abuse. What adults do to and with their bodies is their own business. When it's done to children, it's abuse.
2013-09-30 02:12:43 AM
1 votes:

meanmutton: thisispete: I am completely happy to have an intact penis. I've had no problems with keeping it clean - the foreskin can be pulled back easily enough to expose the head for washing - no more difficult than washing behind your ears. And the head is quite sensitive. I think it would be too sensitive if it was just rubbing against the cloth of my underwear without the foreskin protecting it. So I would hazard that circumsized men must have lost some of that sensitivity, otherwise just walking around would be uncomfortable.

You could guess that, but studies all agree that adult men who have been circumcised as adults all report that there is no difference in sexual sensation.


Nice to see that theydidn't find any of the infants that have no feeling anymore and ask them.

hubby only has feeling on a small area on the tip.
2013-09-29 10:46:08 PM
1 votes:

thisispete: I am completely happy to have an intact penis. I've had no problems with keeping it clean - the foreskin can be pulled back easily enough to expose the head for washing - no more difficult than washing behind your ears. And the head is quite sensitive. I think it would be too sensitive if it was just rubbing against the cloth of my underwear without the foreskin protecting it. So I would hazard that circumsized men must have lost some of that sensitivity, otherwise just walking around would be uncomfortable.


You could guess that, but studies all agree that adult men who have been circumcised as adults all report that there is no difference in sexual sensation.
2013-09-29 10:43:15 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: Makes total sense. Other than backwards barbaric religious purposes, there's never been any reason for this operation. All the "cleanliness" and "prevents disease" reasoning they came up with have been thoroughly debunked.


Stupid science, disagreeing with you.
2013-09-29 09:30:48 PM
1 votes:
I can't even begin to imagine what would be said if a man would only be with a woman who had been routinely surgically altered.
msP
2013-09-29 08:42:42 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: Makes total sense. Other than backwards barbaric religious purposes, there's never been any reason for this operation. All the "cleanliness" and "prevents disease" reasoning they came up with have been thoroughly debunked.


I have never heard these reasons debunked. I completely agree that circumcision IS cleaner, and I could see how it could very easily prevent disease (especially in young boys who might not want to clean themselves as thoroughly as needed). I dated a guy who wasn't circumcised who showered every day and it still always smelled disgusting and turned me off. As a woman, I much prefer circumcised men.
2013-09-29 06:22:19 PM
1 votes:

DerAppie: HairBolus: they fear many would prefer to reject religion rather than have a painful operation.

Which makes me wonder, if they expect that the children aren't really all that religious and are probably breaking tons of other commandments, why bother about that one extra commandment where a piece of the body needs to be cut off?


As I said, it's the fundamental covenant a Jew makes with god. Keeping kosher is not the fundamental covenant a Jew makes with god.

God said it was part of the covenant? So was not eating pork or prawns.

Yeah, well, no it wasn't.  See  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashrut

And the little nick is an improvement only in a nominal sense. We're still dealing with Party A making choices for Party B based on a set of beliefs that Party A doesn't expect Party B to subscribe to

How much each Jew keeps to the commandments pretty much varies every day with the number of Jews. Sometimes more than that. That you understand you or your kids may be breaking various commandments doesn't toss Jews in Hell or excommunication. That various obligations/commandments, even apparent including circumcision change over the years or the weeks or even time of day in meaning as well as in adherence is just how Judaism has worked.

All of that to say that that circumcision is about the parents own obligations to Judaism as well as a wish and intent and hope and goal for the boy and how the parents will parent their boy as he grows up.

There really is only one way in any sense to state that the difference between a nick and complete removal of the foreskin is merely nominal.

It's not true in terms of pain, it's not true in terms of functioning of the foreskin, it's not true in terms of sexual function, it's not true in terms of parenting.

It can only be true in terms of religious obligation if various Jews and their advisors can understand it that way.

I take it you disagree with letting women get their babies, toddlers, any kid, ears pierced?

Your concern that parents are making decisions even including, horrors, medical decisions for their children that the kids may not like has been noted.

In the meantime, parents will continue to decide on food and diets, when to come in at night, how to dress, the treatment for colds and injuries, places to live, cars to drive, where to drive, schools to attend, sleep schedules, medical and dental care, sports the kids can play, bikes they can ride, where they can ride those bikes, when they can walk around the block on their own, when they can get onto a bus, and all sorts of other stuff far scarier to let idiot and backward parents decide for their own children.
2013-09-29 06:17:56 PM
1 votes:

blue_2501: Generation_D: Makes total sense. Other than backwards barbaric religious purposes, there's never been any reason for this operation. All the "cleanliness" and "prevents disease" reasoning they came up with have been thoroughly debunked.

I was in the "uncircumcised" camp for a while until my wife pointed out experience on the issue with a point I hadn't considered: sensitivity.  A unsnipped penis is way more sensitive.  An old BF of hers couldn't last very long because of it.  And hell, for how sensitive a uncircumcised penis is, why risk PE episodes when women already have a hard enough time getting guys to give them an orgasm?

I'm not even religious.  I don't give a crap about the religious aspects.  I just don't want to frak up my son's sex life down the road because I made the wrong choice when he was born.

How many male porn stars do you see who have a unsnipped penis?  Exactly.


Wait, your wife told you you cum too fast compared to her old BF, so you underwent elective penis surgery? That's just said. Even if you think a cut one is aesthetically pleasing, it really makes no difference when your balls are long gone.

/un-cut, aesthetically pleasing (laaadiesss...), definitely zero performance issues
2013-09-29 04:59:35 PM
1 votes:

DerAppie: HairBolus: they fear many would prefer to reject religion rather than have a painful operation.

Which makes me wonder, if they expect that the children aren't really all that religious and are probably breaking tons of other commandments, why bother about that one extra commandment where a piece of the body needs to be cut off?


Well, in Judaism, it's the original, fundamental contract between Jew and God and identified who was a member of the tribe.

i.imgur.com

That said, my not terribly educated understanding is that throughout the centuries the amount and degree of circumcision has varied and been argued by Jewish scholars, and it is possible that it could be replaced by things like a ceremonial nicking.

(When the American Academy of Pediatrics suggested that female circumcisions might be replaced with a ceremonial nicking, the usual feminist suspects went ape shiat.)

I am not a historian, so I have no clue as to the actual history of Jewish circumcision, but I wouldn't mind seeing it replaced with a small nick.

I think a problem the MRAs have (and I am very sympathetic to MRA issues) is that often they don't focus on what are the men's issues, but instead focus on finding male issue counterparts to feminist issues and then playing the victim card as a trump.

I think most circumcisions should be eliminated. I am not sure the first step is making them illegal, that just seems to be a way to delay their eventual elimination by making it a religious war.
2013-09-29 04:58:13 PM
1 votes:

blue_2501: Generation_D: Makes total sense. Other than backwards barbaric religious purposes, there's never been any reason for this operation. All the "cleanliness" and "prevents disease" reasoning they came up with have been thoroughly debunked.

I was in the "uncircumcised" camp for a while until my wife pointed out experience on the issue with a point I hadn't considered: sensitivity.  A unsnipped penis is way more sensitive.  An old BF of hers couldn't last very long because of it.  And hell, for how sensitive a uncircumcised penis is, why risk PE episodes when women already have a hard enough time getting guys to give them an orgasm?

I'm not even religious.  I don't give a crap about the religious aspects.  I just don't want to frak up my son's sex life down the road because I made the wrong choice when he was born.

How many male porn stars do you see who have a unsnipped penis?  Exactly.


Porn stars are probably part of the problem.  If the majority of penises that people see are snipped, then the un-snipped version looks funny.  Imagine if you were opening a puppy box, but instead of a cute puppy jumping out one of those gross wrinkly hairless cats jumped out.
2013-09-29 04:43:29 PM
1 votes:
Oh, boy, someone get the popcorn.
2013-09-29 04:39:21 PM
1 votes:

Generation_D: Makes total sense. Other than backwards barbaric religious purposes, there's never been any reason for this operation. All the "cleanliness" and "prevents disease" reasoning they came up with have been thoroughly debunked.


I was in the "uncircumcised" camp for a while until my wife pointed out experience on the issue with a point I hadn't considered: sensitivity.  A unsnipped penis is way more sensitive.  An old BF of hers couldn't last very long because of it.  And hell, for how sensitive a uncircumcised penis is, why risk PE episodes when women already have a hard enough time getting guys to give them an orgasm?

I'm not even religious.  I don't give a crap about the religious aspects.  I just don't want to frak up my son's sex life down the road because I made the wrong choice when he was born.

How many male porn stars do you see who have a unsnipped penis?  Exactly.
2013-09-29 04:26:35 PM
1 votes:
Well Israel does love the circumcised pen_is , they make fraud science articles where they claim that being circumcised makes you immune to aids(article on AIDs explosion in Africa) and all that icky bacteria under the hood(article on differences between hood or no hood).

/Genital mutilation is barbaric.
//Religion is barbaric too, but stupid people attract to other stupid people and give away money to pedophiles and child abusers.
2013-09-29 04:07:14 PM
1 votes:
I am completely happy to have an intact penis. I've had no problems with keeping it clean - the foreskin can be pulled back easily enough to expose the head for washing - no more difficult than washing behind your ears. And the head is quite sensitive. I think it would be too sensitive if it was just rubbing against the cloth of my underwear without the foreskin protecting it. So I would hazard that circumsized men must have lost some of that sensitivity, otherwise just walking around would be uncomfortable.
2013-09-29 03:52:31 PM
1 votes:
An ex of mine became fascinated by male circumcision when she found out I was (only one in my family in my generation, too.  Thanks, Dad).  She Googled a picture of a baby in a circumcision apparatus and said "Look, that used to be you."

She couldn't understand why I didn't want to keep looking at it.
2013-09-29 01:35:18 PM
1 votes:
Peni .
2013-09-29 01:00:12 PM
1 votes:
Circumcision thread on a Sunday?  Fark this.
2013-09-29 12:24:21 PM
1 votes:
Female circumcision is quite possibly one of the most barbaric things I've ever heard of, right up there with ketchup on steak.
 
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