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(News.com.au)   Sweden getting all snippy about circumcision?   (news.com.au) divider line 94
    More: Stupid, Sweden, Sweden Democrats, United Nations Convention, theocracies  
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2389 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Sep 2013 at 3:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



94 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-29 10:43:15 PM  

Generation_D: Makes total sense. Other than backwards barbaric religious purposes, there's never been any reason for this operation. All the "cleanliness" and "prevents disease" reasoning they came up with have been thoroughly debunked.


Stupid science, disagreeing with you.
 
2013-09-29 10:46:08 PM  

thisispete: I am completely happy to have an intact penis. I've had no problems with keeping it clean - the foreskin can be pulled back easily enough to expose the head for washing - no more difficult than washing behind your ears. And the head is quite sensitive. I think it would be too sensitive if it was just rubbing against the cloth of my underwear without the foreskin protecting it. So I would hazard that circumsized men must have lost some of that sensitivity, otherwise just walking around would be uncomfortable.


You could guess that, but studies all agree that adult men who have been circumcised as adults all report that there is no difference in sexual sensation.
 
2013-09-29 10:49:03 PM  
After a long discussion with the wife, we decided that it was not our body and when they are old enough they can make the decision for themselves.

Wouldn't you rather your parents left it up to you?
 
2013-09-29 11:04:57 PM  
Hey, has anyone pointed out yet that putting earrings on infants makes them look like whores yet?
 
2013-09-29 11:14:47 PM  
Here's a tip:
 
2013-09-30 12:04:31 AM  
I told my boys they can choose to cut off the tip of their penis when they turn 18.
 
2013-09-30 12:48:19 AM  

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Wait, your wife told you you cum too fast compared to her old BF, so you underwent elective penis surgery? That's just said. Even if you think a cut one is aesthetically pleasing, it really makes no difference when your balls are long gone.


Uhhh...no.  Way to totally frak up the reading there.  Of course, I should expect nothing less from Fark.
 
2013-09-30 12:57:52 AM  
I've always felt that people who are concerned with the look of children's penii need to have a seat over there. Seriously, the anti-circ people rank above the bronies on creepiness scale.
 
2013-09-30 01:12:06 AM  

GodComplex: I've always felt that people who are concerned with the look of children's penii need to have a seat over there. Seriously, the anti-circ people rank above the bronies on creepiness scale.


puzzleddog.jpeg
 
2013-09-30 01:24:35 AM  

thisispete: no more difficult than washing behind your ears


Sure, if your ears smell like parmesan.
 
2013-09-30 01:31:03 AM  

Fear the Clam: Hey, has anyone pointed out yet that putting earrings on infants makes them look like whores yet?


Earrings make a lot of sense, actually-- think of them as basically cow tags.  Even the most amazing speaker in the world couldn't describe their kid to a stranger in any way that said stranger could be able to distinguish it from any other crawly little bastard in the world, they all look about the same and parents only know theirs through close personal association.

But slap an ear-tag on that farker and if you lose him all you have to say to the people helping you look for the git is "it's the baby with the orange earring in his right ear" and the whole clothing store or whatever can give you a hand.
 
2013-09-30 01:47:12 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Fear the Clam: Hey, has anyone pointed out yet that putting earrings on infants makes them look like whores yet?

Earrings make a lot of sense, actually-- think of them as basically cow tags.  Even the most amazing speaker in the world couldn't describe their kid to a stranger in any way that said stranger could be able to distinguish it from any other crawly little bastard in the world, they all look about the same and parents only know theirs through close personal association.

But slap an ear-tag on that farker and if you lose him all you have to say to the people helping you look for the git is "it's the baby with the orange earring in his right ear" and the whole clothing store or whatever can give you a hand.


You know what won't fall off or become choking hazard?  Tattoos.  You can just print anything you want and anywhere you want too.

"Destiny's got a cute little pair of angel wings on her back right above the diaper."
 
2013-09-30 01:55:35 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: GodComplex: I've always felt that people who are concerned with the look of children's penii need to have a seat over there. Seriously, the anti-circ people rank above the bronies on creepiness scale.

puzzleddog.jpeg


I gather you have difficulty understanding the viewpoints of people who don't agree with you. I find the anti-circ crowd to be creepy in their obsession with children's penii. Especially the penii of children who are not theirs. I don't see the pro-circ crowd trying to force everyone to have circumcision whereas the anti crowd is trying to get it banned. Therefore I must conclude they spend too much time thinking about the genitals of children and I find that creepy.
 
2013-09-30 02:01:53 AM  
According to real, peer reviewed serious science, the same stuff that people yell at conservatives about when they deny global warming, circumcision reduces your chance of contracting HIV by 50-60%. The cleanliness and disease transmission benefits are very real, which is probably why a few religions wrote it into the parts of their scriptures that were essentially public health codes.

If you are anti circumcision, you are pro-AIDS. No real way around it.
 
2013-09-30 02:12:43 AM  

meanmutton: thisispete: I am completely happy to have an intact penis. I've had no problems with keeping it clean - the foreskin can be pulled back easily enough to expose the head for washing - no more difficult than washing behind your ears. And the head is quite sensitive. I think it would be too sensitive if it was just rubbing against the cloth of my underwear without the foreskin protecting it. So I would hazard that circumsized men must have lost some of that sensitivity, otherwise just walking around would be uncomfortable.

You could guess that, but studies all agree that adult men who have been circumcised as adults all report that there is no difference in sexual sensation.


Nice to see that theydidn't find any of the infants that have no feeling anymore and ask them.

hubby only has feeling on a small area on the tip.
 
2013-09-30 02:25:01 AM  
It all boils down to adults cutting off pieces of their children to please their imaginary friends.

Barbaric doesn't even begin to describe a society that allows this.
 
2013-09-30 02:28:30 AM  

meanmutton: You could guess that, but studies all agree that adult men who have been circumcised as adults all report that there is no difference in sexual sensation.


This is a false equivalence. These adult males have not had the head of their penis exposed for their entire lives; they would not experience the same loss of sensation that a male of the same age who had their natural protection cut off when they were a baby.
 
2013-09-30 03:34:34 AM  

Mytch: RoyBatty: DerAppie: HairBolus: they fear many would prefer to reject religion rather than have a painful operation.

Which makes me wonder, if they expect that the children aren't really all that religious and are probably breaking tons of other commandments, why bother about that one extra commandment where a piece of the body needs to be cut off?

Well, in Judaism, it's the original, fundamental contract between Jew and God and identified who was a member of the tribe.

[i.imgur.com image 763x475]

That said, my not terribly educated understanding is that throughout the centuries the amount and degree of circumcision has varied and been argued by Jewish scholars, and it is possible that it could be replaced by things like a ceremonial nicking.

(When the American Academy of Pediatrics suggested that female circumcisions might be replaced with a ceremonial nicking, the usual feminist suspects went ape shiat.)

I am not a historian, so I have no clue as to the actual history of Jewish circumcision, but I wouldn't mind seeing it replaced with a small nick.

I think a problem the MRAs have (and I am very sympathetic to MRA issues) is that often they don't focus on what are the men's issues, but instead focus on finding male issue counterparts to feminist issues and then playing the victim card as a trump.

I think most circumcisions should be eliminated. I am not sure the first step is making them illegal, that just seems to be a way to delay their eventual elimination by making it a religious war.

Man, and I thought getting that tattoo to join the crypts was a tough decision.


It's worth it as a form of brotherhood. I'm proud of my Marine Core tattoo.

/Semper Phi
 
2013-09-30 04:18:07 AM  

GodComplex: I find the anti-circ crowd to be creepy in their obsession with children's penii. Especially the penii of children who are not theirs. I don't see the pro-circ crowd trying to force everyone to have circumcision whereas the anti crowd is trying to get it banned.


It's child abuse. Even though it's not our children being abused, it's still abuse. What adults do to and with their bodies is their own business. When it's done to children, it's abuse.
 
2013-09-30 05:42:22 AM  

Uncle Tractor: GodComplex: I find the anti-circ crowd to be creepy in their obsession with children's penii. Especially the penii of children who are not theirs. I don't see the pro-circ crowd trying to force everyone to have circumcision whereas the anti crowd is trying to get it banned.

It's child abuse. Even though it's not our children being abused, it's still abuse. What adults do to and with their bodies is their own business. When it's done to children, it's abuse.


And why should I care what someone else does with their child?
 
2013-09-30 07:02:25 AM  

GodComplex: And why should I care what someone else does with their child?


i560.photobucket.com

Do you feel the same way about other forms of child abuse or just genital mutilation? I'm asking, because some of those children will be living in your neighborhood when they grow up.
 
2013-09-30 08:40:12 AM  

Uncle Tractor: GodComplex: And why should I care what someone else does with their child?

[i560.photobucket.com image 500x224]

Do you feel the same way about other forms of child abuse or just genital mutilation? I'm asking, because some of those children will be living in your neighborhood when they grow up.


Well, I don't consider it abuse, cause by the logic that dictates it's abuse, also dictates that vaccines are abuse. But if it helps you justify your moral superiority, then by all means continue to be a pedophile busybody demanding the government tell people to raise their kids in accordance with your beliefs.

But honestly, I don't care. What other people do to with their kids is none of my business and it's not your business either.
 
2013-09-30 08:51:34 AM  
Jim_Callahan:

Earrings make a lot of sense, actually-- think of them as basically cow tags.  Even the most amazing speaker in the world couldn't describe their kid to a stranger in any way that said stranger could be able to distinguish it from any other crawly little bastard in the world, they all look about the same and parents only know theirs through close personal association.

But slap an ear-tag on that farker and if you lose him all you have to say to the people helping you look for the git is "it's the baby with the orange earring in his right ear" and the whole clothing store or whatever can give you a hand.


And this goes back to what I was saying before. take care of your self first (ie: be responsible enough to be able to take baby to a dept store without misplacing her), and then you can be empowered enough to own that responsibility and not fall back on others to look for an orange earring.

/Which can come off.

//Maybe that other farker is right and tattooing the forehead is the way to go if you're gonna do it that way.
 
2013-09-30 09:01:45 AM  

Generation_D: Makes total sense. Other than backwards barbaric religious purposes, there's never been any reason for this operation. All the "cleanliness" and "prevents disease" reasoning they came up with have been thoroughly debunked.


Can you show this debunking from an unbiased source?
 
2013-09-30 09:04:17 AM  
The people who get most up-in-arms over this were picked on in the locker room as kids.
 
2013-09-30 09:20:45 AM  

GodComplex: Well, I don't consider it abuse, cause by the logic that dictates it's abuse, also dictates that vaccines are abuse.


You're comparing genital mutilation with vaccines? Really?

But if it helps you justify your moral superiority, then by all means continue to be a pedophile busybody demanding the government tell people to raise their kids in accordance with your beliefs.

Now I know you're trollin'. Or crazy.
 
2013-09-30 09:55:19 AM  
*shrug* I am snipped and I have no idea why, and I've never asked. If I ever have children and one is a male I won't be having it done. I completely agree that it's unnecessary and stupid to do but I don't consider myself damaged goods or anything and Ive had no complaints from any of my multiple* partners. So it's pretty hard to get worked up about it.

/like all 5 of them
//I'm a pretty boring dude
 
2013-09-30 10:14:17 AM  

Uncle Tractor: GodComplex: Well, I don't consider it abuse, cause by the logic that dictates it's abuse, also dictates that vaccines are abuse.

You're comparing genital mutilation with vaccines? Really?

But if it helps you justify your moral superiority, then by all means continue to be a pedophile busybody demanding the government tell people to raise their kids in accordance with your beliefs.

Now I know you're trollin'. Or crazy.


How cute, it's genital mutilation now. Ya know, if you call eggs coont rocks, it doesn't make them any less delicious. I get it, you're obsessed with children's dicks. Your parents didn't love you enough and now you feel the urge to broadcast to the world how you know better than anyone about how to raise kids. I've met you people before, you're really creepy in your obsession. Don't want your kid snipped, great happy to hear, now quit telling everyone they need to follow your example or they're horrible abusive people who hate kids.

And yes vaccines. The argument is you're forcibly changing a child for your beliefs, guess what, vaccinations change the immune system for your beliefs and guess what, there is a chance your kid could die from vaccinations. You should just let them choose whether or not to be vaccinated when they're older. Or you could ya know, be a parent and decide what's best for your kid like we've been doing since time
imemorable.

Again, you have your opinion, that's great, just don't go around telling everyone you're a better parent than them.
 
2013-09-30 10:38:01 AM  

Egoy3k: I don't consider myself damaged goods


Most men don't even though the snipping crowd likes to build the strawman that we are all trying to stop genital mutilation out of some sort of anger.

The fact is that the pro-snipping crowd's position usually boils down to some or all of 3 arguments:

- Religion - their invisible friend doesn't like foreskin (or maybe he likes it too much)

- cleanliness - they are too lazy to teach a child to clean themselves - they probably would cut ears off as well if they could (dirt hides behind them)

- hiv transmission - they are afraid that their baby is going to have a lot of unprotected sex - or they don't trust him to make the decision about his own body as an adult - so they are taking the decision about his own body away from him. Freedom!!

Personally I do not believe that any of the above justifies surgery on a baby. It is that simple.
 
2013-09-30 10:44:17 AM  

Farking Canuck: Egoy3k: I don't consider myself damaged goods

Most men don't even though the snipping crowd likes to build the strawman that we are all trying to stop genital mutilation out of some sort of anger.

The fact is that the pro-snipping crowd's position usually boils down to some or all of 3 arguments:

- Religion - their invisible friend doesn't like foreskin (or maybe he likes it too much)

- cleanliness - they are too lazy to teach a child to clean themselves - they probably would cut ears off as well if they could (dirt hides behind them)

- hiv transmission - they are afraid that their baby is going to have a lot of unprotected sex - or they don't trust him to make the decision about his own body as an adult - so they are taking the decision about his own body away from him. Freedom!!

Personally I do not believe that any of the above justifies surgery on a baby. It is that simple.


Also, you don't hear a lot of body shaming about cut dicks like you do with the gross/smegma/anteater jokemaking crowd. Ironically the pro-circs are more likely to consider an intact penis as "damaged goods" just by virtue of not having the procedure. They've got this nonsensical attitude where theirs is somehow the more "natural" choice.
 
2013-09-30 11:37:05 AM  

Fafai: Also, you don't hear a lot of body shaming about cut dicks like you do with the gross/smegma/anteater jokemaking crowd.



I completely discount the cosmetic argument as nothing more that child abuse from a vain, shallow person. It can't be considered as serious argument in support of unnecessary surgery on an infant. Not in a civilized world anyway.
 
2013-09-30 01:04:03 PM  

GodComplex: The My Little Pony Killer: GodComplex: I've always felt that people who are concerned with the look of children's penii need to have a seat over there. Seriously, the anti-circ people rank above the bronies on creepiness scale.

puzzleddog.jpeg

I gather you have difficulty understanding the viewpoints of people who don't agree with you. I find the anti-circ crowd to be creepy in their obsession with children's penii. Especially the penii of children who are not theirs. I don't see the pro-circ crowd trying to force everyone to have circumcision whereas the anti crowd is trying to get it banned. Therefore I must conclude they spend too much time thinking about the genitals of children and I find that creepy.


Weird, seems you're the one with the problem understanding differing viewpoints.

See, the rest of us see the pro-circ crowd obsessing over their baby's genitals, such as the multiple Farkers in this thread alone who "do not want to frac up their sons' sex lives later on down the line."

The anti-circ crowd is the side saying that the guy having their dick cut should have some say (perhaps even offer their own consent to the situation) in the matter.

Creepy? Still the pro-circ crowd, especially when referring to infants. The guys who made the choice on their own in adulthood are exempt from the creepiness, of course.
 
2013-09-30 01:04:42 PM  

GodComplex: Uncle Tractor: GodComplex: I find the anti-circ crowd to be creepy in their obsession with children's penii. Especially the penii of children who are not theirs. I don't see the pro-circ crowd trying to force everyone to have circumcision whereas the anti crowd is trying to get it banned.

It's child abuse. Even though it's not our children being abused, it's still abuse. What adults do to and with their bodies is their own business. When it's done to children, it's abuse.

And why should I care what someone else does with their child?


Troll.

*plonk*
 
2013-09-30 01:07:12 PM  

Farking Canuck: Egoy3k: I don't consider myself damaged goods

Most men don't even though the snipping crowd likes to build the strawman that we are all trying to stop genital mutilation out of some sort of anger.

The fact is that the pro-snipping crowd's position usually boils down to some or all of 3 arguments:

- Religion - their invisible friend doesn't like foreskin (or maybe he likes it too much)

- cleanliness - they are too lazy to teach a child to clean themselves - they probably would cut ears off as well if they could (dirt hides behind them)

- hiv transmission - they are afraid that their baby is going to have a lot of unprotected sex - or they don't trust him to make the decision about his own body as an adult - so they are taking the decision about his own body away from him. Freedom!!

Personally I do not believe that any of the above justifies surgery on a baby. It is that simple.


You forgot an important (and very telling) point that the pro-crowd likes to bring up.

They are obsessed over their children's sex lives. They want their sons to feel good. They have somehow equating lopping off a piece of their sexual organ as something that will help their sons have good sex later on in life.
 
2013-09-30 01:36:00 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: They want their sons to feel good.


Whether their sons want it or not.
 
2013-09-30 02:08:36 PM  

Farking Canuck: It all boils down to adults cutting off pieces of their children to please their imaginary friends.

Barbaric doesn't even begin to describe a society that allows this.


Not sure if I'd call that "barbaric".

/it's skin.
//cut it off your kid or don't.
///snipped, any hypothetical children I'd have in the hypothetical situation where I marry my current girlfriend would most likely be as well because she's Jewish
 
2013-09-30 02:49:22 PM  

optional: Circumcision really isn't necessary in this day and age, but it seems really weird for people to get so worked up about it


Circumcision has never been necessary unless viewed as a necessary part of some religions.
 
2013-09-30 03:14:42 PM  

msP: Generation_D: Makes total sense. Other than backwards barbaric religious purposes, there's never been any reason for this operation. All the "cleanliness" and "prevents disease" reasoning they came up with have been thoroughly debunked.

I have never heard these reasons debunked. I completely agree that circumcision IS cleaner, and I could see how it could very easily prevent disease (especially in young boys who might not want to clean themselves as thoroughly as needed). I dated a guy who wasn't circumcised who showered every day and it still always smelled disgusting and turned me off. As a woman, I much prefer circumcised men.


I once dated a woman who showered every day and her cooch smelled something awful.
I much prefer woman with their labia cut off.
 
2013-09-30 03:34:52 PM  

GodComplex: Uncle Tractor: GodComplex: Well, I don't consider it abuse, cause by the logic that dictates it's abuse, also dictates that vaccines are abuse.

You're comparing genital mutilation with vaccines? Really?

But if it helps you justify your moral superiority, then by all means continue to be a pedophile busybody demanding the government tell people to raise their kids in accordance with your beliefs.

Now I know you're trollin'. Or crazy.

How cute, it's genital mutilation now. Ya know, if you call eggs coont rocks, it doesn't make them any less delicious. I get it, you're obsessed with children's dicks. Your parents didn't love you enough and now you feel the urge to broadcast to the world how you know better than anyone about how to raise kids. I've met you people before, you're really creepy in your obsession. Don't want your kid snipped, great happy to hear, now quit telling everyone they need to follow your example or they're horrible abusive people who hate kids.

And yes vaccines. The argument is you're forcibly changing a child for your beliefs, guess what, vaccinations change the immune system for your beliefs and guess what, there is a chance your kid could die from vaccinations. You should just let them choose whether or not to be vaccinated when they're older. Or you could ya know, be a parent and decide what's best for your kid like we've been doing since time
imemorable.

Again, you have your opinion, that's great, just don't go around telling everyone you're a better parent than them.


The anti circ crowd is saying to leave little boys the fark alone.
The pro circ crowd wants them to force little boys to have unnecessary cosmetic surgery on their peeners. Cosmetic reasons are frequently cited.

I'm sorry but who is the pedo here?
 
2013-09-30 03:43:23 PM  

Marine1: Farking Canuck: It all boils down to adults cutting off pieces of their children to please their imaginary friends.

Barbaric doesn't even begin to describe a society that allows this.

Not sure if I'd call that "barbaric".

/it's skin.
//cut it off your kid or don't.
///snipped, any hypothetical children I'd have in the hypothetical situation where I marry my current girlfriend would most likely be as well because she's Jewish


Same with labia, just a flap of skin, chop it off your kid or don't, right?
 
2013-09-30 04:29:01 PM  
This goes both ways.  Most men do not need cut.  Some do.  There are problems of cleanliness when there are issues where the skin seals off around the tip as a boy grows up.  My nephew was lucky enough to be one of those with this issue and had to have surgery to fix a pretty nasty infection that was totally preventable.  If he would have been snipped as a baby, it would have been no big deal.  Instead we had to deal with a 1 yr old in pain with stitches in a not so fun place to stop it from rotting off.  I imagine this used to be more common in times where folks did not bathe on a daily basis and keep their junk clean.
 
2013-09-30 05:35:39 PM  

lectos: This goes both ways. Most men do not need cut. Some do. There are problems of cleanliness when there are issues where the skin seals off around the tip as a boy grows up. My nephew was lucky enough to be one of those with this issue and had to have surgery to fix a pretty nasty infection that was totally preventable. If he would have been snipped as a baby, it would have been no big deal. Instead we had to deal with a 1 yr old in pain with stitches in a not so fun place to stop it from rotting off. I imagine this used to be more common in times where folks did not bathe on a daily basis and keep their junk clean.

 Here's an idea: let's put babies in for surgery to remove their tonsils and appendixes as well. These organs are far more likely to cause them problems in the future than their foreskin.


Now I see the logic. If we are going to do preventive maintenance on newborns for everything that may effect them in the future ... well kids do tend to break their arms and legs. Let's lop off all extremities. It is the only way to be sure.

/unnecessary surgery to remove healthy body parts is idiotic
 
2013-09-30 06:10:05 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: The guys who made the choice on their own in adulthood are exempt from the creepiness, of course.


What about the guys who made the choice to get snipped, and LOVE it?  Are they allowed to get their kid snipped in order to save them from having to go through it at a time when Mr. Happy needs to go out of commission for a few weeks, at a time when they will always remember the pain?

What about people who needed to go through and get snipped just to fix a problem.  Are they allowed to get their kids snipped because it was extra horrific for them when they almost lost the entire tip of their penis and could have lost the whole thing?

Also:
There isn't much of a pro-circ crowd here as much as a pro-choice crowd.  Same with abortion.  No one is really pro-abortion, as in people HAVE to abort babies.

Any religions aside, as they are all nutbags anyhow, the pro side only wants it to not be legislated to never circ a kid.

Same with legislation to never abort a baby.  Or legislating the ability to have kids in the first place. Etc etc. Pretty much, the concept is, authoritarianism is bad.  Liberals have been pushing that for quite a while.

Oh how the mighty have fallen, and come to mirror their ancient enemy.
That's what I find amusing in these threads, the conservative slant lies on the other side of the fence.  People denigrate religion yet at the same time want to limit the choice others have available, all in the name of their own brand of BeliefTM of right and wrong.

Just because a diety is not involved does not mean some of you have not fallen just as hard off of your rocker.
 
2013-10-01 02:50:10 AM  

GodComplex: How cute, it's genital mutilation now. Ya know, if you call eggs coont rocks, it doesn't make them any less delicious. I get it, you're obsessed with children's dicks. Your parents didn't love you enough and now you feel the urge to broadcast to the world how you know better than anyone about how to raise kids. I've met you people before, you're really creepy in your obsession. Don't want your kid snipped, great happy to hear, now quit telling everyone they need to follow your example or they're horrible abusive people who hate kids.


i560.photobucket.comi560.photobucket.comi560.photobucket.comi560.photobucket.comi560.photobucket.comi560.photobucket.comi560.photobucket.comi560.photobucket.comi560.photobucket.comi560.photobucket.com

And yes vaccines. The argument is you're forcibly changing a child for your beliefs, guess what, vaccinations change the immune system for your beliefs and guess what, there is a chance your kid could die from vaccinations. You should just let them choose whether or not to be vaccinated when they're older. Or you could ya know, be a parent and decide what's best for your kid like we've been doing since time
imemorable.


Not just a troll, but also a crazy anti-vaxxer.

Again, you have your opinion, that's great, just don't go around telling everyone you're a better parent than them.

Well, enjoy your version of reality.
 
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