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(Salon)   There is a woman out there so beautiful that she's been maimed by male attention, and she wants to tell the world about it   (salon.com) divider line 219
    More: Stupid, objectification, academic degrees, nursing  
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26656 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Sep 2013 at 9:43 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-29 01:45:07 PM
I just had this conversation the other day with a man - about unwanted male attention. Guys always seem to think their compliments are always appropriate or desired - and they are very wrong.

"I'm just saying you look nice." or "I'm just telling her she's pretty, what the hell is wrong with that?" "If a woman told me I looked nice, I certainly wouldn't be offended."

I could only explain that stripping a woman down to how she looks - despite her intellect, ambitions, accomplishments, her being - kind of makes you a jerk. She's more than just a pretty face, she's a human being. You're being rude and she's right to be offended.

I find it as hard to explain misogyny to men as it is to explain racism to white people. People only ever believe what they want to believe.
 
2013-09-29 01:50:04 PM
If you're too much of anything, you're going to get shiat for it. Too fat, too thin, too ugly, too pretty - doesn't matter. If you're too pretty, you're automatically stupid, crazy, conceited, and will steal everyone's significant others right out from under their noses.

And of course, if you say you're too pretty, you are a whiner who obviously has no idea what "real" problems are and should just shut up and die.

Pretty people problems.
 
2013-09-29 01:56:39 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: applejacks: What the fark happened to Pierce Brosnan's wife? That is nice he sticks by her despite being a major fatty.

I'd probably stick with her, but still sleep with tons of babes on the side.

Assuming I had a strong pre-nup, that mini Death Star would probably deal with it and enjoy the Celebrity Satellite lifestyle.


Or, maybe he's in love with her
 
2013-09-29 01:57:30 PM

BishopHatto: Does she like Dickens Cider?


Yes, but only in the can.
 
2013-09-29 02:03:33 PM

groppet: Awwwww poor baby. I don't see why she is so upset now she has gained weight and it seems they are not paying her the same attention so she is just another normie like the rest of us.


Exxxxaaaaaactly! Now that she's a chub she should be happy to be receiving less attention. Too bad she's full
 
2013-09-29 02:05:30 PM

Eve L. Koont: groppet: Awwwww poor baby. I don't see why she is so upset now she has gained weight and it seems they are not paying her the same attention so she is just another normie like the rest of us.

Exxxxaaaaaactly! Now that she's a chub she should be happy to be receiving less attention. Too bad she's full


Ack! Damn phone.

...too bad she's full of shiat. Sounds like extreme narcissism. Period.
 
2013-09-29 02:05:36 PM

Egalitarian: She has a point even if she's whiny and blaming too much of her current bad situation on the looks thing.


She has a point in the way that rich people have a point when they complain that people treat them differently because they're rich. Rich people don't have to display their wealth. Good looking people don't have to display their looks. This is only a problem for people who make it their problem.
 
2013-09-29 02:08:34 PM

FnkyTwn: applejacks: http://listofcelebs.blogspot.com/2011/03/beauty-and-beast-pierce-bros n an-and.html

What the fark happened to Pierce Brosnan's wife?  That is nice he sticks by her despite being a major fatty.

Whatever, you should check out Hugh Jackman's wife:

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x563]

The rumor has always been that she's his *beard*. It's cool that he's Wolverine and all, but he likes doing musicals and Broadway way more than action movies. And I understand him staying in the closet as an actor. I'd support him if he came out, but.. it's hard to tune out a person's sexuality when they're playing a role. Like if Rachel Maddow was in a movie as a straight chick. It's possible, but it's a stretch for the audience. Eventually, some day down the road, this will be less of an issue, but at this point, it's a necessary evil for working actors.


One: she overtanned, you can tell, her skin's sun damaged. Two: she looks makeup free in that photo. You're used to middle-aged women (particularly actresses) being extremely made up, and often subject to small fortunes in skin care. Three, maybe he loves her how about that? Love isn't hotness contingent.
And four, he might be bisexual. Seriously why does everyone forget that bisexuality exists? And why the shiat does "musicals and Broadway" mean anything about someone's sexuality? Know who else got his start there?
www.damonchernavsky.com

/before they catch you you chainsmokin'
//word.
 
2013-09-29 02:10:50 PM
Too beautiful? Get your nose busted. farkin easy that.
 
2013-09-29 02:11:16 PM

Hermione_Granger: I find it as hard to explain misogyny to men as it is to explain racism to white people.


You're just obsessed with seeing yourself as a victim, aren't you?  The funny thing is that I know a black woman who is the diametric opposite of how you portray yourself, so at least someone is out there undoing the damage you cause.
 
2013-09-29 02:11:28 PM

Hermione_Granger: I could only explain that stripping a woman down to how she looks - despite her intellect, ambitions, accomplishments, her being - kind of makes you a jerk. She's more than just a pretty face, she's a human being. You're being rude and she's right to be offended.


And stripping a man down to a sentence he said - despite his intellect, ambitions, accomplishments, his being, is what?
 
2013-09-29 02:23:35 PM
I do feel a bit sorry for her only in that she seems to have a deep seated problem. But if I tried to count the number of times I was judged by or poorly treated by a member the opposite sex... Get up and get back on the horse, you will eventually find something.
 
2013-09-29 02:23:54 PM
memestorage.com
 
2013-09-29 02:26:19 PM
It's like Salon is an unfunny version of the Onion. It has to be a failed attempt at satire.
 
2013-09-29 02:28:32 PM
Im so beautiful I once shot a man just for snoring.
 
2013-09-29 02:34:33 PM

SuddenlySamhain: Im so beautiful I once shot a man just for snoring.


I don't know what your name is, so I'll just call you Fred.
 
2013-09-29 02:35:39 PM

NetOwl: As a supremely ugly person (not fat-ugly, which can be fixed, but ugly-faced, which cannot be fixed), I have no sympathy for people like this.


Do you know what is more difficult than being pretty?  Being ugly.  If you think people don't take you seriously when you look good, well, try disfiguring your face.  See how many people take you seriously then.


Have you ever read one of those "Men's Rights" screeds about how male privilege doesn't exist?  Your letter reads just like those.


I would rather a below average face and nice firm body than a fatty with a pretty face.
 
2013-09-29 02:42:05 PM

SuperNinjaToad: NetOwl: As a supremely ugly person (not fat-ugly, which can be fixed, but ugly-faced, which cannot be fixed), I have no sympathy for people like this.


Do you know what is more difficult than being pretty?  Being ugly.  If you think people don't take you seriously when you look good, well, try disfiguring your face.  See how many people take you seriously then.


Have you ever read one of those "Men's Rights" screeds about how male privilege doesn't exist?  Your letter reads just like those.

I would rather a below average face and nice firm body than a fatty with a pretty face.


I'm a fatty with a pretty face, and I do a lot better than my average looking non-fat friends.

A lot
 
2013-09-29 02:58:04 PM
Ye Gods, I'm glad I am not a woman. It sounds very complicated.
 
2013-09-29 03:07:04 PM

fireclown: Ye Gods, I'm glad I am not a woman. It sounds very complicated.


There's an opt out program for women called Not Giving A fark. Once you've properly installed the attitude, stuff like this isn't a problem. In fact, the attitude seems to send out signals to others to piss off with their rubbish. It works best when you don't have a lot of social contacts you're trying to impress.
 
2013-09-29 03:07:16 PM
I am neither fat, nor am I ugly.
Actually, I'm a tall (6'3"), athletic, smart, good looking man who speaks well, plays a few musical instruments, can sing well if the need arises, love my mother and father, am a stern but fair and fun father, love babies and kids (I'm a teacher), love dogs and can cook a meal.

Also, I can fix things around the house and am very IT capable.

In short, I am pretty damn awesome. But you shouldn't really care so I won't bore you with my story.

/CSB
 
2013-09-29 03:10:38 PM
There aren't that many things that grind my gears but it's this fad of pretty girls doing "ugly face" where they scrunch up their mug in a weird unflattering grimace. It's wholly innocent, but it makehme think they're "slumming" at being ugly. Hell, some of us have to be ugly all the time.
 
2013-09-29 03:15:59 PM

Ker_Thwap: Yep exactly, it's usually the Daily Mail greenlights that have these "woman too awesome for ..." articles. Nice to see Salon is getting in the business too.


The good news is the Fark Fail Brigade didn't disappoint. Going on 4 full pages of screeching "WHAT A DUMB BIATCH!" crap over what amounts to a second-rate "Dear Abby" ripoff. An eight and a half year old Dear Abby ripoff at that.

And Farkers have the gall to accuse Reddit commenters of being stupid.
 
2013-09-29 03:23:44 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Reminds me of someone..

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 306x649]

The Hand! put Mr. Socko on it, and you've got the mandible claw!

 
2013-09-29 03:24:32 PM

skozlaw: crap over what amounts to a second-rate "Dear Abby" ripoff. An eight and a half year old Dear Abby ripoff at that


Cary Tennis has been writing for Salon longer than 8 1/2 years, and has moreinsight in his pinky than Pauline or Jeanineever had in their entire bodies.
 
2013-09-29 04:11:11 PM

TeamVanHelsing: [memestorage.com image 338x506]


That's great!
 
2013-09-29 04:25:15 PM

beer4breakfast: Cary Tennis has been writing for Salon longer than 8 1/2 years


No, the article is nearly eight and a half years old. It was published in 2005.

/ old clickbait is so exciting!
 
2013-09-29 04:43:23 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-29 04:50:12 PM

fireclown: Ye Gods, I'm glad I am not a woman. It sounds very complicated.


What till you hear about what happens to them once a month.
 
2013-09-29 04:53:30 PM
"I was paid too much attention by men, so I gained weight and men won't pay attention to me, but I wish they would pay attention to me even though I'm fat but not pay attention to me efvseertnydrrhhygnnksy..."

The crazy you never stick your dick in.
 
2013-09-29 05:03:01 PM

fredklein: She has "a genius IQ", but can't figure out why strangers, who don't know her, judge her on the one thing they do know about her-her looks, instead of personality and intelligence (which they don't know, because they don't know her).

/she also likes the word "glom".


THIS. I can't tell what your personality is like from 10 feet away. Nor can I discern your likes and dislikes, your intelligence or knowledge, your penchant for good wine or dirty jokes, or that you like to be tied up with silk scarves or men's neckties during sex. I cannot hear you, smell you, taste you or touch you from that distance.

But I can see you.

You might ask, "Well why not come over and talk to me and get to know these things?"
Fair question. The answer to that is a question in itself: "How do I choose between you and another woman when making the decision to approach and introduce myself?"

It's how you look. That is what men have used since we stood upright to make that decision, simply because it is the first information we can receive at a distance.

tl;dr - get over yourself, woman
 
2013-09-29 06:00:55 PM
If she's such a genius, maybe she should invent the IQ Goggles for men to wear. One look at a woman while wearing those goggles will give you data about her IQ rating, her exam scores, her job and financial security. Then again, who cares about those things when people are more attracted to beauty anyway? Oh yeah, at least the IQ Goggles will tell gold diggers which woman is most likely an attention whore whom he could leech money off of.
 
2013-09-29 06:21:39 PM

FunkOut: fireclown: Ye Gods, I'm glad I am not a woman. It sounds very complicated.

There's an opt out program for women called Not Giving A fark. Once you've properly installed the attitude, stuff like this isn't a problem. In fact, the attitude seems to send out signals to others to piss off with their rubbish. It works best when you don't have a lot of social contacts you're trying to impress.


And this^
 
2013-09-29 06:57:59 PM
maybe someone like tom leykis could help
 
2013-09-29 06:58:29 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Hermione

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Hermione_Granger: I find it as hard to explain misogyny to men as it is to explain racism to white people.

You're just obsessed with seeing yourself as a victim, aren't you?  The funny thing is that I know a black woman who is the diametric opposite of how you portray yourself, so at least someone is out there undoing the damage you cause.



Well, to my credit, like most people, how I am on Fark, and how I in real life aren't exactly the same. Here, like most people, I'm a bit more honest.

That black woman you know - is not being honest with you about what she thinks - about anything - under any circumstances. She doesn't trust you and probably doesn't really like you. Or if she does, it's on the superficial level that most white people get to with black people.

LOL - wouldn't it be funny if I were the black woman you're talking about?

No, I don't see myself as a victim. I honestly go out into the world and try to see people as just people. But then people spout the most ignorant racist claptrap....and that's in person, it's worse online...and I have to wonder...what the hell is wrong with these people?

I'm honestly not trolling. But this is my life experience. For a long time I chose to ignore it. But in this space, I don't. I can't afford to and stay sane. There has to be one place and space in my life where I'm honest with white people about the damage and hurt their racism causes. For me Fark is that space.

And believe me, it's a weird space to choose. I know my comments about racism and misogyny are not appreciated. But then again, I don't like the racism and misogyny that Fark espouses in the name of humor.

In it's best moments, Fark is brilliant, witty, funny, enlightening. In it's worst moments Fark is seething with repressed hatred. It's an odd dichotomy.

But I refuse to stop talking about racism and sexism because they make people uncomfortable or angry, especially when it's the same discomfort and anger I feel being subjected to those sentiments just for wanting to have a bit of fun in my day.

If Farkers want me to stop talking about racism, then maybe they should be less racist. If they want women to stop talking about misogyny then maybe the "go make me a sammich crowd" should go make their own sammich and stop being jerks.

Just sayin

/end rant
 
2013-09-29 08:00:20 PM
I'm maimed too! Reading this article, I rolled my eyes so hard that I tore some ligaments in my head.
 
2013-09-29 08:00:41 PM
I'm a fat, not-very-attractive older woman and I have been fat since birth. Enough so that a photo in a newspaper article about me and my Dad on Father's day had a caption that mentioned how lucky I was that I was too young to realize I was fat. I grew up tallish at 5'11", very heavy, with size 13 feet and a size 8 head, and with generally what most people charitably called 'a very large frame'. In other words, I was a bit of an Amazon. And fat.

I'm saying all of this because I am pretty grateful I was able to live my life as a fat woman. Nobody paid attention to me directly. I was able to devote myself to my family, my PhD thesis in graduate school, my research and my friends. I had and have awesome friends who don't give a crap about my being a fat chick.

No problems dating, no issues with guys harrassing me for attention, no instant handouts to make me lazy, and a good sense of humor to deal with life's issues. Life wasn't a red carpet and it made me work harder.

And yea, I'm still fat, after a physics PhD, a kid, and many decades of fun living my life off the beaten path. I never let being fat get in the way of physical activity, travelling, or my career, though I have to deal with prejudice of various sorts every day of my life. I regularly deal with the 'Jack's look of surprise' in conversation when the goofy fat girl turns out to be a biophysicist faculty member.

Married twice, second time to a Farker and we're living a pretty good life right now.

As for surgery, or weight loss, I'm still pretty active and still trying to lose some weight by limiting carbs and exercise. It comes and goes with the seasons and my work load, but I'm probably going to die fat someday if my health ever goes to hell, which it may or may not given my family's track record.

Anyway, I'm rambling on to say all this, to say that if being 'beautiful' means I couldn't have live my life the way I have, scratching out each accomplishment without easy hand-ups, then I don't know if I'd be the same satisfied individual. If you're attractive enough that you enjoy a lot of boosts from other people and a lot of fairly free resources and money, more power to you, but I had such fun on my way through the harder scrabble that I can feel sorry for the fact that you'll never experience the same thing.

The lady in the article should realize that by getting fat and less attractive, she's been given a reprieve and the ability to move on with her life, free of distractions and attentions that are pretty shallow and useless. Here's hoping she got to use that opportunity to make a life for herself.
 
2013-09-29 08:27:34 PM

Hermione_Granger: That black woman you know - is not being honest with you about what she thinks - about anything - under any circumstances. She doesn't trust you and probably doesn't really like you. Or if she does, it's on the superficial level that most white people get to with black people.


You really don't even know how farked up you sound when you assume you're in the head of a person you never met just because she's another black woman, do you?   The sad fact is, you're so busy looking for racism and sexism everywhere else, you don't even realize how apparent your "isms" are to the rest of us.  You are the thing you hate, but you're too blinded by hate to see it.

/And no, she really likes me. Either that or she really hates her daughter.
 
2013-09-29 08:45:53 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Hermione_Granger: That black woman you know - is not being honest with you about what she thinks - about anything - under any circumstances. She doesn't trust you and probably doesn't really like you. Or if she does, it's on the superficial level that most white people get to with black people.

You really don't even know how farked up you sound when you assume you're in the head of a person you never met just because she's another black woman, do you?   The sad fact is, you're so busy looking for racism and sexism everywhere else, you don't even realize how apparent your "isms" are to the rest of us.  You are the thing you hate, but you're too blinded by hate to see it.

/And no, she really likes me. Either that or she really hates her daughter.




Apparently you missed the thread yesterday about the black women dancers at the fashion show.

Carry on.
 
2013-09-29 08:56:35 PM

NetOwl: As a supremely ugly person (not fat-ugly, which can be fixed, but ugly-faced, which cannot be fixed), I have no sympathy for people like this.


Do you know what is more difficult than being pretty?  Being ugly.  If you think people don't take you seriously when you look good, well, try disfiguring your face.  See how many people take you seriously then.


Have you ever read one of those "Men's Rights" screeds about how male privilege doesn't exist?  Your letter reads just like those.


Yeah, but the thing is, being  too noticeable comes with what the woman FTFA mentions. Women are objectified. You're getting the short end. She's getting the short end. I'm getting the short end. Guess what?  We're all screwed by objectification of women, ugly or pretty. You two don't have opposing problems that can't exist in the same world. You have the same problem.
 
2013-09-29 09:36:48 PM

Hermione_Granger: In it's best moments, Fark is brilliant, witty, funny, enlightening. In it's worst moments Fark is seething with repressed hatred.


But it seems that in all moments, Fark is unable to distiguish its from it is.
 
2013-09-29 09:37:57 PM
Had a friend some years ago, smoking hot blond, super high IQ, could have posed for playboy, stopped traffic, especially in the spandex outfit!   BUT.... Hated the attention! Hated the free drinks, hated the whole thing even whilst dressing to kill all the time (There's that spandex again). Mind you as a bartender this paid very well.
She moved to Fort Collins, Colorado as a friend said she would prefer the tone of life there. After about a month she called me complaining all the guys must be gay, because hot as she was the dudes in fort Collins just didn't yell "babe" ( or for that matter _anything!) as she crossed the street. Not the way the New Yorkers did. Maybe they were more respectful of women, or short sighted? I don't know. I thought she would finally be happy. Nope, it pissed her off so much she moved back to the harassing New yorkers exactly one year later.
Still smoking hot... still hating the attention, still wearing the hottest outfits! Yep spandex again..   WTF!
 
2013-09-29 09:54:58 PM

Hermione_Granger: BraveNewCheneyWorld: HermioneBraveNewCheneyWorld: Hermione_Granger: I find it as hard to explain misogyny to men as it is to explain racism to white people.

You're just obsessed with seeing yourself as a victim, aren't you?  The funny thing is that I know a black woman who is the diametric opposite of how you portray yourself, so at least someone is out there undoing the damage you cause.

Well, to my credit, like most people, how I am on Fark, and how I in real life aren't exactly the same. Here, like most people, I'm a bit more honest.

That black woman you know - is not being honest with you about what she thinks - about anything - under any circumstances. She doesn't trust you and probably doesn't really like you. Or if she does, it's on the superficial level that most white people get to with black people.


I wonder: how do you know this?

LOL - wouldn't it be funny if I were the black woman you're talking about?

You claim to be more honest here than normal. You named the persona you project after a famous white character: many people simply assume that online personas are white, and I've little doubt that you would call this hurtful, but the persona you project explicitly reinforces that assumption for your persona. In light of all this, it would be absolutely hilarious if you turned out to be the black woman being referenced here.

But I don't think you are. I don't think you're in her head, and I don't think you think for her. So I ask again: how do you know this about her? You call her dishonest: is that really her own dishonesty, or a projection of yours?

But I refuse to stop talking about racism and sexism because they make people uncomfortable or angry, especially when it's the same discomfort and ...

I have a philosophical question. When a thing is spoken, who decides what it means: the speaker, or the listener?
 
2013-09-29 10:10:43 PM
I knew a girl who was strikingly beautiful at 14, knock-dead gorgeous at 16, happy and settled by 22.
After her first baby she grew pleasant-looking and ordinary. No weight gain; the lovely bits just... settled.
Things could have turned out so much worse for her, but AFAIK she's enjoying her stable family life now.
Apparently she felt no need to "rebel" against "objectification" by turning herself into a fat, embittered cow.
The good looks did their job, she found a suitable mate, reproduced, and got on with the business of life.
 
2013-09-30 01:02:42 AM

Hermione_Granger: I just had this conversation the other day with a man - about unwanted male attention. Guys always seem to think their compliments are always appropriate or desired - and they are very wrong.

"I'm just saying you look nice." or "I'm just telling her she's pretty, what the hell is wrong with that?" "If a woman told me I looked nice, I certainly wouldn't be offended."

I could only explain that stripping a woman down to how she looks - despite her intellect, ambitions, accomplishments, her being - kind of makes you a jerk. She's more than just a pretty face, she's a human being. You're being rude and she's right to be offended.

I find it as hard to explain misogyny to men as it is to explain racism to white people. People only ever believe what they want to believe.


Perhaps the problem is that you're explaining by using an example of something that isn't misogyny.

Sticking to actual examples of misogyny probably would help, but the word has lost most of its meaning at this point through overuse, so perhaps you shouldn't be faulted for it.

One could make the argument that wildly leaping to the conclusion that any man that notices a woman is attractive must by definition be incapable of thinking of her in any other way is a bit misandrist, however.
 
2013-09-30 01:38:07 AM
So many fat, bitter dudes in here.

It's a legitimate issue but it's quite understandable that it would be so far from your experience that you cannot conceive how it would work.
 
2013-09-30 05:29:41 AM

Hermione_Granger: I just had this conversation the other day with a man - about unwanted male attention. Guys always seem to think their compliments are always appropriate or desired - and they are very wrong.

"I'm just saying you look nice." or "I'm just telling her she's pretty, what the hell is wrong with that?" "If a woman told me I looked nice, I certainly wouldn't be offended."

I could only explain that stripping a woman down to how she looks - despite her intellect, ambitions, accomplishments, her being - kind of makes you a jerk. She's more than just a pretty face, she's a human being. You're being rude and she's right to be offended.

I find it as hard to explain misogyny to men as it is to explain racism to white people. People only ever believe what they want to believe.


I have you tagged as "White-hating misogynistic racist".  To my almost bewilderment, you continue to consistently live up to that tag.
How do you propose men "break the ice" when attempting to make conversation with an unknown woman?  In my experience most women who go out with a group of lady friends dress themselves up to gather just that kind of attention.  A man flattering a woman over her Louboutins typically does not garner the kind of male-hatred you think it does.

Also this:

pseudowho: Perhaps the problem is that you're explaining by using an example of something that isn't misogyny.

Sticking to actual examples of misogyny probably would help, but the word has lost most of its meaning at this point through overuse, so perhaps you shouldn't be faulted for it.

One could make the argument that wildly leaping to the conclusion that any man that notices a woman is attractive must by definition be incapable of thinking of her in any other way is a bit misandrist, however.

 
2013-09-30 05:39:46 AM
Dammit.  That should have read "White-hating misandrist racist".  My hands got ahead of my brain while typing.
Though, I could probably argue the misogyny angle pretty easily as well.
 
2013-09-30 07:18:35 AM

bibli0phile: You all realize this article is 8 years old right?


Damn, I was so happy to submit a hilariously greenlightable article that I didn't notice the date, since I followed a "recommended" link from today's article.

/First green
//Thread turned a fail into awesome!
 
2013-09-30 07:32:13 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Honestly, I've known "beautiful" women, like modelesque classical beauties, but they don't look like much from across the room. In my experience the women who get the most unwanted attention are slightly chubby chicks with giant tits who wear low cut shirts, with cleavage that can be seen from across the street.


You forgot about the push-up bra, dark eye liner, and tight mini-dress. And for the truly desperate, body briefers to suck in the fat.
 
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