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(Vanity Fair)   Flashback: In September back in 1963, the world was introduced to a beautiful marriage of performance and art, the Porsche 911   (vanityfair.com ) divider line
    More: Cool, performance art, Half Century  
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4419 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Sep 2013 at 3:14 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-28 03:15:59 PM  
Oh, what a night
Late September, back in '63
What a very special time for me
As I remember, what a night
 
2013-09-28 03:18:24 PM  
Yes, I read that in Clarkson's voice.
 
2013-09-28 03:19:14 PM  
And the body design has not really changed since its inception.  What a lazy bunch of designers!!
 
2013-09-28 03:29:17 PM  
The perfect car has a very auspicious number.
 
2013-09-28 03:37:42 PM  
userserve-ak.last.fm
"Only a complete idiot with no taste in automobiles would think the 911 is a good car."
 
2013-09-28 03:38:11 PM  
In before "It's a German Corvair."

/911:  An incredible story of the triumph of systematic engineering over multiple horribly flawed concepts that could not be fixed because of chunderheadedness
 
2013-09-28 03:39:35 PM  
Can't believe I'm the first "It's a VW" post.
 
2013-09-28 03:39:51 PM  

jenny next: The perfect car has a very auspicious number.


Seven.

/the Mazda, not the Lotus
/it's a shame they stopped making the RX-7 after 1980
 
2013-09-28 03:39:55 PM  

Mister Peejay: In before "It's a German Corvair."

/911:  An incredible story of the triumph of systematic engineering over multiple horribly flawed concepts that could not be fixed because of chunderheadedness


Apart from the trailing throttle oversteer what are the other problems?
 
2013-09-28 03:40:21 PM  
so the 911 came out 2(or II!) days after 9/11/63(6+3=9!), 38 years(3+8=11!) before 9/11/2001, 2 months and 9 days(2+9=11!) before kennedy was assassinated? conspiracy!

I bet it was cheney.
 
2013-09-28 03:41:58 PM  
It's no Datsun 240z...
 
2013-09-28 03:43:42 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: [userserve-ak.last.fm image 300x300]
"Only a complete idiot with no taste in automobiles would think the 911 is a good car."


It's just a Beetle with mustard up its bottom.
 
2013-09-28 03:44:25 PM  
NEVER FORGET
 
2013-09-28 03:45:35 PM  
It's just a method of transportation you sick farks, stop fetishing inanimate objects that can't love you back.
 
2013-09-28 03:46:48 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Mister Peejay: In before "It's a German Corvair."

/911:  An incredible story of the triumph of systematic engineering over multiple horribly flawed concepts that could not be fixed because of chunderheadedness

Apart from the trailing throttle oversteer what are the other problems?


Might have something to do with that whole 'rear engine platform' thing...
 
2013-09-28 03:46:52 PM  
And the JFK got shot.  Therefore, it's all Porsche's fault.  Lee Harvey Oswald wanted one, so he agreed to be paid by the mob/CIA/Cubans to kill the president.
 
2013-09-28 03:47:40 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Mister Peejay: In before "It's a German Corvair."

/911:  An incredible story of the triumph of systematic engineering over multiple horribly flawed concepts that could not be fixed because of chunderheadedness

Apart from the trailing throttle oversteer what are the other problems?


Well, to be fair, everything has trailing throttle oversteer.  Not everything has the tendency to swing like a hammer when you do so, though.

Horrible chassis dynamics inspired Porsche to invent an entire field of suspension design: kinematics - dynamic suspension tuning via engineered bushing deflection.

And then there's the fact that they bothered with an air cooled engine, which is fraught with all manner of flaws that all stem from being unable to get adequate cooling in certain areas of the engine.  Porsche aircooled sixes were all 2-valve because of this - can't adequately air cool a 4 valve head.   Once they finally ditched that junk in favor of engines that were more conducive to being thermally consistent, they instantly gained a bunch of power.  The dry sump system is a nice touch, although necessary for cooling reasons.

I will admit that a 911 (911-chassis 911, not 964/993/etc) has a great driving position and steering feel to die for.  Very light yet direct and communicative.
 
2013-09-28 03:48:07 PM  
i.imgur.com

I prefer the early Porsche models.The Elefant at 143,000 lbs it wasn't quite as fast and didn't handle like a 911 but you would never have a problem finding a parking space
 
2013-09-28 03:49:43 PM  
Acutally, they introduced the 901.  And were promptly sued by Peugot who had a trademark on car model numbers with a 0 in the middle.  After making 35 or so, they changed it to 911.

The also discontinued the 356 :(  But folks wanted a less expensive option, so the 912 came to be - 911 body and transmission, buy 4 cylinder engine spec'd to be like the 356 SC engine - 1720cc and 95hp.

Just sold my 911 - '84 turbo look coupe, one of 420 made.  Still have, and will never sell, my 356 :)

/ more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow
// horsepower is for those who can't keep their speed up in the corners
 
2013-09-28 03:51:55 PM  
TheEdibleSnuggie:
Might have something to do with that whole 'rear engine platform' thing...

Actually, you know what?  It was a great idea.  Porsche is first and foremost an engineering firm.  The cars they sell are just proof of their abilities.

So, they take 15 feet of bad ideas and engineer the hell out of it until it becomes a world-beating car.   "Look what we did with this steaming POS, imagine what we could do for you!"

(Mind you, it didn't hurt that they poured big giant truckfuls of cash into their racing efforts, at a time when most companies did not)
 
2013-09-28 03:52:02 PM  

YoOjo: It's just a method of transportation you sick farks, stop fetishing inanimate objects that can't love you back.


This may surprise you, but people are allowed to have hobbies and desires. You can have a fetish for some of the pieces displayed at the Louvre, but they're not going to love you back, either.

The next thread where you confess a deep love for an inanimate object, I'll be sure to sh*t on your opinion, too.

/not subby
 
2013-09-28 03:55:24 PM  

dickfreckle: YoOjo: It's just a method of transportation you sick farks, stop fetishing inanimate objects that can't love you back.

This may surprise you, but people are allowed to have hobbies and desires. You can have a fetish for some of the pieces displayed at the Louvre, but they're not going to love you back, either.

The next thread where you confess a deep love for an inanimate object, I'll be sure to sh*t on your opinion, too.

/not subby


I have a deep love for sh*tty opinions.
 
2013-09-28 03:55:36 PM  

Mister Peejay: Once they finally ditched that junk in favor of engines that were more conducive to being thermally consistent, they instantly gained a bunch of power.


I had a 944 (s2) and I was sneered at by a certain minority of Porschephiles because it was an inferior "water cooler".  Case study in masochism or stockholm syndrome.  To me it was totally insane that it took until 1998 for Porsche to do the right thing to that series.

But then that company is all about the blind spots in its engineering.  The latest was the lawsuit they settled for the idiotic IMS bearing in the Boxsters.
 
2013-09-28 03:57:53 PM  
Hopped up, squashed down vw bettle. Fast and ugly.At least the old ones where dangerous, the new ones have no redeeming features.
 
2013-09-28 03:58:41 PM  

Bacontastesgood: Mister Peejay: Once they finally ditched that junk in favor of engines that were more conducive to being thermally consistent, they instantly gained a bunch of power.

I had a 944 (s2) and I was sneered at by a certain minority of Porschephiles because it was an inferior "water cooler".  Case study in masochism or stockholm syndrome.  To me it was totally insane that it took until 1998 for Porsche to do the right thing to that series.

But then that company is all about the blind spots in its engineering.  The latest was the lawsuit they settled for the idiotic IMS bearing in the Boxsters.


Wasserpumper!

As a 356er, I'm just jealous of your 12v electrics

:)
 
2013-09-28 03:58:49 PM  

Bacontastesgood: To me it was totally insane that it took until 1998 for Porsche to do the right thing to that series.


By which I mean water cool the 911s, sorry if that was unclear.
 
2013-09-28 03:59:26 PM  

YoOjo: It's just a method of transportation you sick farks, stop fetishing inanimate objects that can't love you back.


i3.kym-cdn.com

NO SHUT UP OUR LOVE IS REAL DAMMIT
 
2013-09-28 04:01:29 PM  
Hopped up, squashed down VW Bettle. It eventually became fast, it will always be ugly.
At least the old ones were dangerous, the new ones have no redeeming features.
 
2013-09-28 04:02:51 PM  

i.r.id10t: As a 356er, I'm just jealous of your 12v electrics

:)


356 is super classic, there's a lot to be said for keeping one of those going.  My 944 was a daily driver.  I had a ghia though long ago, for the real air cooled experience.  Had to keep a jug of water in that to pour on the carb sometimes when it would vapor lock.

For a bus, I think all autos should go to 24V actually.  You can use stupidly tiny wires with basically no resistive loss, the alternator and starters are more efficient, and it's more of an industrial standard so parts prices should be more reasonable.
 
2013-09-28 04:05:18 PM  

darkone: the new ones have no redeeming features.


Accept for great handling, very nice acceleration, even better cornering.
 
2013-09-28 04:06:04 PM  

thamike: NEVER FORGET


upload.wikimedia.org


The Porsche 911 changed everything.
 
2013-09-28 04:06:22 PM  
errr Except not Accept
 
2013-09-28 04:06:28 PM  
DrExplosion:
[i3.kym-cdn.com image 850x569]

NO SHUT UP OUR LOVE IS REAL DAMMIT


I really don't know what is worse.  That there exists that body pillow, or that somebody propped it up at the table for a romantic candle-lit dinner of Papa Johns' and 2%, or that I think I recognize who it is.
 
2013-09-28 04:07:11 PM  
Let's count down backwards from five really loudly.. 5..4..3..2..
 
2013-09-28 04:09:34 PM  

WhyteRaven74: darkone: the new ones have no redeeming features.

Accept for great handling, very nice acceleration, even better cornering.


Well,  no.  They handle like crap and you don't really approach the limits of cornering unless you were REALLY sure of what you were doing because mid-corner correction is not an option, and they were never very powerful.

What 911s had in spades was braking.  And mystique.  But mostly braking.  Just, you know, in a corner?  Always be accelerating.
 
2013-09-28 04:10:54 PM  
70 years ago, in the early grips of oktoberfest-fueled tomfoolery, engineers produced a car with its engine stuck to the wrong end. They have spent every year since then trying to convince the world that they did it on purpose.
 
2013-09-28 04:17:30 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-09-28 04:22:40 PM  
Oh, how wonderful. Oh, how fantastic.
And then.
 ...
...
914.
 
2013-09-28 04:24:40 PM  
geekmotoring.com
 
2013-09-28 04:26:56 PM  

Mister Peejay: DrExplosion:
[i3.kym-cdn.com image 850x569]

NO SHUT UP OUR LOVE IS REAL DAMMIT

I really don't know what is worse.  That there exists that body pillow, or that somebody propped it up at the table for a romantic candle-lit dinner of Papa Johns' and 2%, or that I think I recognize who it is.


The Papa John's. Fictional Japanese women prefer  Domino's.
 
2013-09-28 04:30:34 PM  

Bacontastesgood: Mister Peejay: Once they finally ditched that junk in favor of engines that were more conducive to being thermally consistent, they instantly gained a bunch of power.

I had a 944 (s2) and I was sneered at by a certain minority of Porschephiles because it was an inferior "water cooler".  Case study in masochism or stockholm syndrome.  To me it was totally insane that it took until 1998 for Porsche to do the right thing to that series.

But then that company is all about the blind spots in its engineering.  The latest was the lawsuit they settled for the idiotic IMS bearing in the Boxsters.


Care to elaborate? I've been thinking Boxster lately..
 
2013-09-28 04:32:58 PM  

Mister Peejay: and they were never very powerful.


The current Carrera S does 0 to 60 in 4.3 seconds, that's far from slow. And it has 400 HP, not bad for  3.8L flat six. The Turbo has another 120 HP and gets to 60 in 3.2 seconds. The Turbo S is even quicker. As for notorious tail happy handling? They fixed that ages ago. As for the limit, that's pretty far out there, current 911s can hit 1g or just over on a skidpad. Not a lot of cars around that can do that.
 
2013-09-28 04:39:42 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Mister Peejay: and they were never very powerful.

The current Carrera S does 0 to 60 in 4.3 seconds, that's far from slow. And it has 400 HP, not bad for  3.8L flat six. The Turbo has another 120 HP and gets to 60 in 3.2 seconds. The Turbo S is even quicker. As for notorious tail happy handling? They fixed that ages ago. As for the limit, that's pretty far out there, current 911s can hit 1g or just over on a skidpad. Not a lot of cars around that can do that.


I guess some people might consider that to be acceptable.

Not trying to turn into a "need to be at the gym in 26 minutes" kind of crap, but if you look at it historically, 911s were always down on power compared to their contemporaries.

The handling problems stem strictly from the polar moment of inertia, nothing more.  They "fixed" it with the 914, and the 928, and the 924, and the 944, and the 968, and the Boxster, and the Cayman.  Note that every single one of these has been given short shrift by the company in order to protect the 911.
 
2013-09-28 04:42:22 PM  

uber humper: I prefer the early Porsche models.The Elefant at 143,000 lbs it wasn't quite as fast and didn't handle like a 911 but you would never have a problem finding a parking space


Dont forget the Maus.
 
2013-09-28 04:47:57 PM  
I love my Boxster :)
rasiel.com
 
2013-09-28 04:51:08 PM  
My 1978 911SC Targa laughs at your comments
 
2013-09-28 04:52:15 PM  
Ready to Drool Excessively tho never ever got to drive one. unable to do manual xmissions  Before reading comments by those who may know of which they speak, spout, whatever.  Did get to drive a Chev Corvair in young youth tho --
 
2013-09-28 04:52:16 PM  

DrExplosion: Mister Peejay: DrExplosion:
[i3.kym-cdn.com image 850x569]

NO SHUT UP OUR LOVE IS REAL DAMMIT

I really don't know what is worse.  That there exists that body pillow, or that somebody propped it up at the table for a romantic candle-lit dinner of Papa Johns' and 2%, or that I think I recognize who it is.

The Papa John's. Fictional Japanese women prefer  Domino's.


Oh good.  I knew someone had to be eating that crap, I'm heartened that it's not 3D people.

/just referred to real life as 3D, needs to step away from keyboard
 
2013-09-28 04:52:48 PM  
I owned a '77 911 SC, a Euro model. I put as much money into maintaining that thing as I did in buying it. Fun as hell though.

/misses his ass-engined Nazi slot car
 
2013-09-28 04:54:54 PM  

Donnchadha: Oh, what a night
Late September, back in '63
What a very special time for me
As I remember, what a night


--- OK good I'm not crazy.
Came to post just the first line, but thanks.
 
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