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(BBC)   Thought nothing could ever pry your ancient hands from WASD + mouse for FPS? The Valve controller might be able to   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 86
    More: Cool, FPS, WASD, modalities, game developers, beta testing, haptic feedback  
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5330 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Sep 2013 at 2:41 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



86 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-28 08:51:09 AM
I'm left-handed, so instead of the WASD keys, I get the comfy keypad on the right of the keyboard with the arrows on them for movement.  Added bonus, the plus key makes an excellent jump button, keypad enter toggles dash, insert toggles duck, and 5 makes an excellent use key.  All of which can be conveniently used while moving forward with the keypad 8 button, still leaving me with all the other keys on the keypad for special functions.

I feel sorry for you right-handers and your offset WASD keys.  Yuck, terrible.  How do you ever manage?
 
2013-09-28 02:47:57 PM
No subby, bells and whistles on a controller don't compensate for the effortless microsecond twitch shooting I can do with a mouse, and it never will.

Now if you want to use touchscreen buttons with your dick, this is the controller for you!
 
2013-09-28 02:50:25 PM
I acclimated to the old Dark Forces controls.  My forward/back are Mouse1/Mouse2, Fire is Ctrl, Aim is Alt, Sidestep are still A&D.
 
2013-09-28 02:50:49 PM
Stick + mouse for me.  Was quite a leap back in the day to stick with my left, but its going on 15 years now!

I'm far too fumble-fingered to control w/KB.
 
2013-09-28 02:54:48 PM
Why won't these assholes just replicate the greatest and most efficient controller of all time?

www.raphnet.net
 
2013-09-28 03:00:28 PM
I'm very interested in new controllers. TrackIR has been great and LeapMotion looks promising. I don't care if it's not as effective if it's more genuine. XBox controller for a game that has 50-100 controls is a new go however.
 
2013-09-28 03:05:40 PM
Won't happen. Players used to mouse/keyboard, and PC Master Race true believers, aren't going to make the switch. The best outcome here is to allow Steam Boxes USB/wireless mouse/keyboard support, so everyone's happy.

Or even better, design a gaming keypad with pressure-sensitive keys, and a hybrid joy-mouse (in other words, a giant analog stick in the shape of a mouse, with mouse buttons) for the damn console. Best of both worlds.
 
2013-09-28 03:06:26 PM
Only if, for some reason, I can't invert the mouse.

On second thought, if that's the case, I'd rather not play at all.
 
2013-09-28 03:16:46 PM

kronicfeld: Why won't these assholes just replicate the greatest and most efficient controller of all time?

[www.raphnet.net image 800x490]


http://classicgaming.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Articles.Detail&id=25 9

I recall being quite satisfied with the intellivision controller.
 
2013-09-28 03:29:53 PM

that bosnian sniper: Won't happen. Players used to mouse/keyboard, and PC MasterMustard Race true believers, aren't going to make the switch

 
2013-09-28 03:32:04 PM
The controller looks interesting for shooters, but I mainly play racing games.

Does this thing have analog triggers or are the triggers just digital mouse buttons?

No idea how the track pads would work for steering input, and none of the other buttons look right for a clutch, handbrake, and gear shift assignments.
 
2013-09-28 03:33:12 PM
Personally, I'm mostly interested in the "clickable touchscreen" bit in the middle.  I'd like to see it on a smartphone, if just for the ability to mouseover links.
 
2013-09-28 03:33:58 PM
www.yorku.ca
 
2013-09-28 03:34:04 PM
WASD what?

This is how you play from the reclined comfort of your couch. Mouse on the right. G13 on the left.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-28 03:41:31 PM

Baron Harkonnen: I'm left-handed, so instead of the WASD keys, I get the comfy keypad on the right of the keyboard with the arrows on them for movement.  Added bonus, the plus key makes an excellent jump button, keypad enter toggles dash, insert toggles duck, and 5 makes an excellent use key.  All of which can be conveniently used while moving forward with the keypad 8 button, still leaving me with all the other keys on the keypad for special functions.

I feel sorry for you right-handers and your offset WASD keys.  Yuck, terrible.  How do you ever manage?


Us CAD monkeys have hundreds of shotcuts that are 100% left hand entered while using a mouse on the fly.  Don't dis us or we'll shoot you in the dick
 
2013-09-28 03:44:09 PM
I have less than no interest in that controller.

I like controlers, they're great for some games (yes, even shooters on consoles, I don't want to be stuck in my computer chair 24/7).

I like m/k setup (I have a razer Naga with the buttons on it for MMOs, because I'm too lazy to do more than 1-2-3-4-5 with my left hand).

Both have a proper setup and place. Touchpads on a controler are a shiat idea that I'm not any more interested in than I am the Kinect or the Wiimote.
 
2013-09-28 03:44:21 PM
 
2013-09-28 03:59:10 PM
Arrow keys only, Subby.  WASD is for people who have freaky hands where they can bend their middle finger sideways at impossible angles.
 
2013-09-28 04:00:48 PM

Glitchwerks: The controller looks interesting for shooters, but I mainly play racing games.

Does this thing have analog triggers or are the triggers just digital mouse buttons?

No idea how the track pads would work for steering input, and none of the other buttons look right for a clutch, handbrake, and gear shift assignments.


I read an article in which a few game developers in the closed beta commented, and they were really impressed with the flexibility. Apparently you can divide up the right pad however you wish to act like buttons, and although that is less than ideal for lack of the tactile sensation of a button, the haptic feedback helps a lot. So, I take it that for a racing game you could do that on the right side, in addition to the actual AB buttons.

that right side back button might be nice for the handbrake, and/or the clutch. A different review I read said that it had a good amount of resistance (so you won't accidentally press it just from holding it) and that you just squeeze to hit it.

For my own part, I mostly play fps games, and although I expect this to be much better than standard controllers, it certainly won't replace mouse+keyboard for me. Still, I'd like to try it out. I already have a logitech F310 for other types of games I occasionally play, and I think this would be better. I can see those trackpads being much more natural than D-pads or sticks, since you don't have to deal with the return-to-home-position resistance.

/I have not read anything about the triggers, but I would assume at least one (pair) is analog.
 
2013-09-28 04:02:24 PM
So this is supposed to go with their console and help serve as a controller replacement for the keyboard and mouse.  I guess the question is will the console simply not work with a wireless keyboard and mouse?  Because no matter how good this controller is, I'm skeptical of it actually surpassing what a keyboard/mouse delivers.
 
2013-09-28 04:04:51 PM

goatleggedfellow: WASD what?

This is how you play from the reclined comfort of your couch. Mouse on the right. G13 on the left.

[i.imgur.com image 500x690]


Feh on that. It's an ergonomic nightmare. Razer Nostromo + mouse for combat, G15 or G17 for everything else.
 
2013-09-28 04:04:52 PM

Shrugging Atlas: So this is supposed to go with their console and help serve as a controller replacement for the keyboard and mouse.  I guess the question is will the console simply not work with a wireless keyboard and mouse?  Because no matter how good this controller is, I'm skeptical of it actually surpassing what a keyboard/mouse delivers.


Yeah but you can use this while sprawled out on the couch eating cheerios off your stomach and drinking mountain dew.
 
2013-09-28 04:05:45 PM

Mister Peejay: Arrow keys only, Subby.  WASD is for people who have freaky hands where they can bend their middle finger sideways at impossible angles.


You want to know how I know you sucked at counter strike?
 
2013-09-28 04:09:08 PM

Mister Peejay: Arrow keys only, Subby.  WASD is for people who have freaky hands where they can bend their middle finger sideways at impossible angles.


I don't get this. WASD is perfectly fine. You must just put your wrist in an odd place if that is a problem for you. Or you have a funky keyboard.

Also, it's nice to have more keys closer to your default position. This does vary a lot by keyboard, but usually the arrow keys are rather isolated. If I were left handed I'd probably just use IJKL, or maybe the N-pad 8456.
 
2013-09-28 04:15:59 PM

kronicfeld: Why won't these assholes just replicate the greatest and most efficient controller of all time?


No no this was clearly their inspiration.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-28 04:17:20 PM

ZoeNekros: Mister Peejay: Arrow keys only, Subby.  WASD is for people who have freaky hands where they can bend their middle finger sideways at impossible angles.

I don't get this. WASD is perfectly fine. You must just put your wrist in an odd place if that is a problem for you. Or you have a funky keyboard.


To hit the W key with my ring finger on the A key, I have to bump my ring finger off into CapsLockLand.  Or tilt the keyboard so the number pad is near my chest.

This speaks nothing of the whole issue with desktop space - arrow keys mean you can shove the keyboard off to the left so you can have more room for the mouse.
 
2013-09-28 04:19:15 PM
benheck.com
 
2013-09-28 04:19:45 PM
Four repeats of the LA school district kids "hacking" their iPads and now, at least one repeat of the Vavle controller? Come on, admins, put a little effort into your work.
 
2013-09-28 04:20:12 PM
L.
O.
L.

OK, let's set up a Team Fortress 2 server with Red using this dinky controller, and Blue on mouse+keyboard. It won't be a question of who will win, only how much Red will be humiliated.
 
2013-09-28 04:24:46 PM

FormlessOne: goatleggedfellow: WASD what?

This is how you play from the reclined comfort of your couch. Mouse on the right. G13 on the left.

[i.imgur.com image 500x690]

Feh on that. It's an ergonomic nightmare. Razer Nostromo + mouse for combat, G15 or G17 for everything else.


Depends on placement and your own positioning. I'd sit on the end of my couch (no armrest) with mouse on a table to the right and I kept the G13 on the couch just next to my left leg. Leaned back. Feet up. Both arms extended down to the devices, not up. Perfect ergonomics. Called it my 'Captain's Chair".

Setting it on a desktop keyboard position while sitting upright at a desk...prolly not gonna work that well. Nostromo'd likely work better there.
 
2013-09-28 04:29:59 PM

Mister Peejay: To hit the W key with my ring finger on the A key, I have to bump my ring finger off into CapsLockLand. Or tilt the keyboard so the number pad is near my chest.


quizzicaldog.jpg

Seriously, I have no idea what your issue is. Reading your post, I just had a flash of those infomercial "everything is difficult!" moments.

Your middle finger should line up along W-S-X, or maybe just a little to the left (that is, wrist to the left a bit). There's no bumping.

Tilting helps, but it doesn't take much. I actually use an ergonomic keyboard, so I don't have to tilt at all... or I guess it's pre-tilted. You might want to give one of them a shot.

/of course it doesn't really matter. Whatever works for you.
 
2013-09-28 04:37:59 PM

goatleggedfellow: WASD what?

This is how you play from the reclined comfort of your couch. Mouse on the right. G13 on the left.

[i.imgur.com image 500x690]


that looks incredibly stupid, yet if you master it, incredibly terrifying.
 
kab
2013-09-28 04:39:02 PM
While this thing is an improvement over dual analog for some situations, the mouse isn't going to be dethroned anytime soon for such games.
 
2013-09-28 04:43:48 PM
ZoeNekros:
Seriously, I have no idea what your issue is. Reading your post, I just had a flash of those infomercial "everything is difficult!" moments.

Your middle finger should line up along W-S-X, or maybe just a little to the left (that is, wrist to the left a bit). There's no bumping.


Long arms, big hands, wrists that don't bend much.  When sitting comfortably, I could probably EASD easier than WASD.

shiat happens, adapt or whine.  I got a way that works, except for the games where you can't reconfigure keys.
 
2013-09-28 04:50:17 PM
The N64 had the best controller.  I would take out any mouse/keyboard or PS3/XBOX player with that and............ ok, i can't troll that hard. I pwned at Goldeneye. playing it again about about a decade later i couldn't understand how ANYONE thought that was a good set up.
 
2013-09-28 04:51:23 PM

Mister Peejay: Long arms, big hands, wrists that don't bend much. When sitting comfortably, I could probably EASD easier than WASD.

shiat happens, adapt or whine. I got a way that works, except for the games where you can't reconfigure keys.


Ah, that makes some sense now. Your elbows must really be pretty far out there. I'd actually highly recommend an ergonomic keyboard for you then -- one of the separated types even, like this

But yup, whatever works for ya.
 
2013-09-28 05:26:22 PM

kab: While this thing is an improvement over dual analog for some situations, the mouse isn't going to be dethroned anytime soon for such games.


See that's what I'm trying to figure out.  Is this controller supposed to be:

1.  An alternative/improvement over other controllers (like the 360) for use in PC games that benefit from a controller over WASD/Mouse--say something like GTA?  Basically just an alternative (and possibly a better one) to existing controllers but otherwise filling the same role.
2.  A replacement for a mouse/keyboard in games that otherwise play better with WASD/mouse--like precision FPS games?
3.  A replacement for a mouse/keyboard for more point and click, menu-driven games like say Europa Universalis or Civilization?

#1 seems the most likely.  #2 seems to be a near impossible task to achieve--both in terms of technical accomplishment and selling gamers on the idea.  #3 has me curious...assuming the Steam Box and Controller isn't absurdly pricey I can see myself using it in that situation....assuming it all works extremely well.
 
2013-09-28 05:30:14 PM
What a valve controller may look like.
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-28 05:33:45 PM
I've been using

S - Strafe Left
D - Forward
F - Strafe Right
E - Backward

for 20+ years.
Works great for me but I only know of one other person that uses this configuration.

I'm intrigued by the Steam controller but only for controller type games. (Tomb Raider, Batman, GTA)
I can't see giving up keyboard & mouse for FPS anytime soon.
 
2013-09-28 05:50:34 PM
It's interesting, but the button placement is retarded. It simply won't work.
 
2013-09-28 05:52:24 PM

Shrugging Atlas: So this is supposed to go with their console and help serve as a controller replacement for the keyboard and mouse.  I guess the question is will the console simply not work with a wireless keyboard and mouse?  Because no matter how good this controller is, I'm skeptical of it actually surpassing what a keyboard/mouse delivers.


From what I have read the steam box is just a computer running the linux based steamOS.
The SteamOS will be free so you can download it and install it on your own computer.  They are just trying to make PC gaming more living room/couch friendly.

Sounds like the controller works really well, and there are plenty of games on the PC I am just fine using a controller with. That said, a K/M setup will be hard to beat for some genres.
 
2013-09-28 06:01:13 PM

Baron Harkonnen: I'm left-handed, so instead of the WASD keys, I get the comfy keypad on the right of the keyboard with the arrows on them for movement.  Added bonus, the plus key makes an excellent jump button, keypad enter toggles dash, insert toggles duck, and 5 makes an excellent use key.  All of which can be conveniently used while moving forward with the keypad 8 button, still leaving me with all the other keys on the keypad for special functions.

I feel sorry for you right-handers and your offset WASD keys.  Yuck, terrible.  How do you ever manage?


I use the right mouse button for forward movement, the left Alt key for backwards movement, the left shift key for jumping and the spacebar for activation/use. My arrangement us unorthodox, but I find it to be comfortable.
 
2013-09-28 06:06:08 PM

Primitive Screwhead: I've been using

S - Strafe Left
D - Forward
F - Strafe Right
E - Backward

for 20+ years.
Works great for me but I only know of one other person that uses this configuration.

I'm intrigued by the Steam controller but only for controller type games. (Tomb Raider, Batman, GTA)
I can't see giving up keyboard & mouse for FPS anytime soon.


Switch E and D and that's what I've used since Tribes 2. Worked better than WASD for me cause it opens up Q, W, R, T,C,V,G, H, Tab, Left Shift, Left Alt, and Keyboard all without needing to really stretch or move your hands from the 'home keys'.
 
2013-09-28 06:08:38 PM
Meh, I'll give it a spin before I make a final judgement.
 
2013-09-28 06:41:42 PM

voodoowizard: Shrugging Atlas: So this is supposed to go with their console and help serve as a controller replacement for the keyboard and mouse.  I guess the question is will the console simply not work with a wireless keyboard and mouse?  Because no matter how good this controller is, I'm skeptical of it actually surpassing what a keyboard/mouse delivers.

From what I have read the steam box is just a computer running the linux based steamOS.
The SteamOS will be free so you can download it and install it on your own computer.  They are just trying to make PC gaming more living room/couch friendly.

Sounds like the controller works really well, and there are plenty of games on the PC I am just fine using a controller with. That said, a K/M setup will be hard to beat for some genres.


Yea, I was disappointed that a Steam Machine is just any computer running SteamOS. I guess it will be useful in 2015-16 when you can pick one up for $400 that is more powerful than either of the PS4/Xbone

I'm anxious to get my hands on a controller. It looks like it could work really well for certain genres.
 
2013-09-28 06:41:51 PM

Primitive Screwhead: I've been using

S - Strafe Left
D - Forward
F - Strafe Right
E - Backward

for 20+ years.
Works great for me but I only know of one other person that uses this configuration.

I'm intrigued by the Steam controller but only for controller type games. (Tomb Raider, Batman, GTA)
I can't see giving up keyboard & mouse for FPS anytime soon.


I use this too, WASD is ineffective, you have easier access to more keys and can use home-row typing using ESDF.
 
2013-09-28 06:49:24 PM

kasmel: Worked better than WASD for me cause it opens up Q, W, R, T,C,V,G, H, Tab, Left Shift, Left Alt, and Keyboard all without needing to really stretch or move your hands from the 'home keys'.


optimistic_cynic: I use this too, WASD is ineffective, you have easier access to more keys and can use home-row typing using ESDF.


Exactly! :)
 
2013-09-28 06:51:47 PM

I Like Bread: L.
O.
L.

OK, let's set up a Team Fortress 2 server with Red using this dinky controller, and Blue on mouse+keyboard. It won't be a question of who will win, only how much Red will be humiliated.


1. WHO CARES WHO WINS? I play games for fun. It's not a sport. There's no honor involved. JUST HAVE FUN SHOOTING SHIAT.

2. Why would you need to put the two controller types against each other? What's the point to that? To prove one side's superiority? Okay... Then what? I'm still gonna sit on my couch and use the controller, and I'll still snipe your head off in Red Dead Redemption with a 360 controller before you can reach for your guns. People are going to play with what is most comfortable, and if you're so haaaarrrrddddcoooorrreee that you need to DOMINATE with your controller of choice, then that's your hang up. Congratulations. You win. Now I'll go on to play someone else who's using the gamepad and we'll have fun.

3. Did I mention FUN? That's the point of games for most people. The only ones who keep score and obsess over getting the best control so they can circle-strafe like a biatch are the exact same people I don't want to play with, anyway. I'll find a game where everyone's just having fun and not being ridiculously competitive. That means the controller wins, because I'm on the couch unwinding while you're hunched over your desk getting stressed out over your frag count.

4. Not every game is an FPS. In fact, FPS games are slowly dying out because they're the same old crap every time. If I'm playing GTA V on Steam, I'll be using a gamepad, not the lame, awkward keyboard/mouse combo. Same for Arkham City, Assassin's Creed (any of them), Bully, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, Skyrim, Oblivion, Saint's Row (all of them), or most games I'm interested in. Not all of us give much of a shiat about FPS games, having gotten bored with the formula sometime around the height of Unreal Tournament. It's just cops & robbers, kiddo. It gets dull.

5. The Steam Machine is meant for the living room. If you want to balance a keyboard and mouse on your lap to play games in the living room-- or drag a desk in there-- that's your business. You can do that with the Steam Machine. However, for those of us who aren't stuck with keyboard/mouse on the brain, we're happy to see Valve designing an intuitive controller that will make pretty much any game playable on our big-screen TV without the need for being hunched over like a troglodyte.

6. I've been playing computer games since the early 1980s (and consoles before that, in the 1970s), and while I enjoyed many mouse/keyboard games, I still would prefer to kick back, relax, and not have to hover over a desk. Figure out how to use keyboard/mouse while reclining in a loveseat, and I'll consider it. But for now, gamepad is JUST FINE for having fun playing a game in my living room.
 
2013-09-28 07:00:15 PM
I have a 360 controller for my PC. Basically only bought it for Dark Souls. I can play shooters with it though.

I'll give the Valve controller a shot, but I'm on the fence if it'll replace m+k.
 
2013-09-28 07:03:20 PM

Baron Harkonnen: I'm left-handed, so instead of the WASD keys, I get the comfy keypad on the right of the keyboard with the arrows on them for movement.  Added bonus, the plus key makes an excellent jump button, keypad enter toggles dash, insert toggles duck, and 5 makes an excellent use key.  All of which can be conveniently used while moving forward with the keypad 8 button, still leaving me with all the other keys on the keypad for special functions.

I feel sorry for you right-handers and your offset WASD keys.  Yuck, terrible.  How do you ever manage?


Well, I'm right handed and I use to use the numpad.  There's this neat little thing you can do with keyboards these days:  push it off to the side.
 
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