If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(BBC)   The number of Americans giving up their citizenship has rocketed this year. Well, bye   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 107
    More: Obvious, Americans, Federal Register, American dollars  
•       •       •

1904 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Sep 2013 at 1:06 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



107 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-09-28 12:18:15 PM
Another Headline implying that people are leaving the US,
Full Article people who haven't lived in the US for decades deciding that it is not worth the hassle to keep their Citizenship.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-28 12:26:35 PM
"Skyrocketed" to 1,131 cases.  That's something like 0.00000377% of the population.
 
2013-09-28 01:10:37 PM
The number of expatriates renouncing their US citizenship surged in the second quarter of 2013, compared with the same period the year before - 1,131 cases to 189 in 2012. It's still a small proportion of the estimated six million Americans abroad, but it's a significant rise.

No, it's really not.
 
2013-09-28 01:11:54 PM
So stop taxing 'people' who live and work full-time in Non-Freedom-land.
Unless its a global national corporation who hides their profits in foreign lands via creative accounting to avoid paying any U.S. taxes, while at the same time getting massive tax rebates from the U.S. government.

/Rafael Edward Cruz needs a U.S. citizenship.
//He can trade his Canadian citizenship for your U.S.A. citizenship.
//Maybe he will even through in some Saskatchewan seal skin bindings.
 
2013-09-28 01:11:57 PM
A simple loyalty card at the local grocery store caused her anxiety when she realised it was linked to a bank account she never knew she had.

Oh f*ck right off
 
2013-09-28 01:12:14 PM

vpb: "Skyrocketed" to 1,131 cases.  That's something like 0.00000377% of the population.


Sure, it might not seem like many now, but in another year or two, we will be sorry when the management consultants and payphone phone sanitizers go Galt and leave the rest of us behind. And don't forget that guy Kevin who works the evening shift cleaning the backroom at Walgreen's. If Obama isn't in prison by 2014, Kevin is totally going Galt. We've been warned!
 
2013-09-28 01:13:14 PM
Robert Stack, deputy assistant secretary for international tax affairs, rebuts certain "myths".

So they're no longer unsolved mysteries?
 
2013-09-28 01:15:13 PM
More Obamacare for me then.
 
2013-09-28 01:16:24 PM
The things we do for love...
 
2013-09-28 01:19:12 PM

spongeboob: Another Headline implying that people are leaving the US,
Full Article people who haven't lived in the US for decades deciding that it is not worth the hassle to keep their Citizenship.


Pretty much done in one. Yes, taxes are a cause of this, but it's not like people are pullin' a Jed Clampett and moving from California to greener pastures in Prussia.
 
2013-09-28 01:19:18 PM
They will come crawling back after they see the new awesome war we have planned for next month.
 
2013-09-28 01:22:29 PM

EngineerAU: vpb: "Skyrocketed" to 1,131 cases.  That's something like 0.00000377% of the population.

Sure, it might not seem like many now, but in another year or two, we will be sorry when the management consultants and payphone phone sanitizers go Galt and leave the rest of us behind. And don't forget that guy Kevin who works the evening shift cleaning the backroom at Walgreen's. If Obama isn't in prison by 2014, Kevin is totally going Galt. We've been warned!


So you like phones.
 
2013-09-28 01:25:45 PM
rich white people problems
 
2013-09-28 01:28:37 PM
FTA: The list is compiled by the Federal Register, and while no reasons are given, the big looming factor seems to be tax. A new law called the Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act (Fatca) will, from 1 July next year.

So they've been giving up their citizenship over something that will happen in the distant future?

I guess that's better than recognizing any of the other, more embarrassing, reasons people might.
 
2013-09-28 01:31:14 PM
For every one person who's renounced their citizenship, I'm willing to bet there's a thousand who don't bother because they never intend to return to the US and if they did the IRS would nab them for failure to pay taxes that no other civilized country demands of people outside the country.
 
2013-09-28 01:31:16 PM

Aristocles: Of course, since BOB and dems want to give illegal aliens the same benefits as citizens, what's the point of paying taxes?


You should put down that Tea Party pamphlet, then do a little research and acquaint yourself with some facts about how much income tax these folks pay.
 
2013-09-28 01:32:12 PM
Inb4 "Who is BOB?"
 
2013-09-28 01:32:18 PM
One of my good friends from college left the country 20 years ago, but that hasn't stopped him from going full teabagger. He asked me to look into formally relinquishing his citizenship, but when he saw that it involved actual effort he decided not to bother. On the rare occasions he returns to the States he'll simply hope that he doesn't get caught. He's a really good guy, but we don't talk about politics anymore.
 
2013-09-28 01:33:00 PM
Just because of the relative ease of travel afforded to both, the only citizenship I would give up American citizenship for would be Canada or Britain. Any others would just make international travel too much of a headache.
 
2013-09-28 01:33:12 PM

J. Frank Parnell: the distant future?


J. Frank Parnell: 1 July next year.


www.rawstory.com
 
2013-09-28 01:34:35 PM
"Bridget, who runs an editing and translation company, says her strong emotional bond with the US has been frayed."

Golly.  As a citizen who saw the Iraq Murder Party ginned up, saw the drydrunk prance across the aircraft carrier, saw Dr. Evil hand out his "Go fark yourselves" and shoot people in the face, saw charred American torsos swinging from gibbets, watched the drydrunk play hide-and-seek at a correspondents dinner, watched red-faced frothing American horders scream "TREASON" at fellow citizens like me, and continues to encounter young men missing arms and legs...

...I feel so terribly, deeply, achingly sad that this citizen who has lived in Sweden for 32 years has finally felt her strong emotional bond with the US frayed, because her accountant bill went up.

tinyviolin.jpg
 
2013-09-28 01:35:57 PM

Lost Thought 00: Just because of the relative ease of travel afforded to both, the only citizenship I would give up American citizenship for would be Canada or Britain. Any others would just make international travel too much of a headache.


I was under the impression that the EU had shared external passport reciprocity, i.e. any nation you can get into with, say, a British passport, you can also get into with a Dutch or Polish or Italian passport.
 
2013-09-28 01:36:23 PM
I know a lot of US expats. Very few of them are rich. $3000 for a tax lawyer is the equivalent of 3 months national average pay here.
 
2013-09-28 01:36:41 PM

Churchill2004: J. Frank Parnell: the distant future?

J. Frank Parnell: 1 July next year.

[www.rawstory.com image 615x345]


If record numbers of people have been doing it since 2012, you really think a change coming in 2014 might be to blame?
 
2013-09-28 01:38:11 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Churchill2004: J. Frank Parnell: the distant future?

J. Frank Parnell: 1 July next year.

[www.rawstory.com image 615x345]

If record numbers of people have been doing it since 2012, you really think a change coming in 2014 might be to blame?


I have no idea, I just know that for tax and financial planning purposes, 10 months from now is hardly the "distant future".
 
2013-09-28 01:38:45 PM
Damn, and just when that 50th Obamacare Repeal Vote in the House was going to finally awaken The Reagan and his ushering in Corporate Tax Cuts so deep every American will be automatically be a CEO.

Then again, traffic will be untenable when there are 325,000,000 Bugatti Veyrons on the road.
 
2013-09-28 01:38:56 PM

BMulligan: One of my good friends from college left the country 20 years ago, but that hasn't stopped him from going full teabagger. He asked me to look into formally relinquishing his citizenship, but when he saw that it involved actual effort he decided not to bother. On the rare occasions he returns to the States he'll simply hope that he doesn't get caught. He's a really good guy, but we don't talk about politics anymore.


How is he liking Somalia?
 
2013-09-28 01:39:56 PM

Lost Thought 00: Just because of the relative ease of travel afforded to both, the only citizenship I would give up American citizenship for would be Canada or Britain. Any others would just make international travel too much of a headache.


Any EU passport allows you full travel within the EU.
 
2013-09-28 01:39:56 PM

Aristocles: Of course, since BOB and dems want to give illegal aliens the same benefits as citizens, what's the point of paying taxes?


Man, does it hurt to hurp so hard you curl up into a ball of derp?

Tonguing your own asshole, not a lifestyle choice that many would follow. Grats you.
 
2013-09-28 01:43:07 PM
Given the innate US dislike of taxation, your global citizen taxation system is very odd.

Even us tax-loving Europeans think that's ridiculous.
 
2013-09-28 01:45:17 PM

404 page not found: Inb4 "Who is BOB?"


www.kaveyeats.com
 
2013-09-28 01:47:01 PM

sheep snorter: So stop taxing 'people' who live and work full-time in Non-Freedom-land.
Unless its a global national corporation who hides their profits in foreign lands via creative accounting to avoid paying any U.S. taxes, while at the same time getting massive tax rebates from the U.S. government.

/Rafael Edward Cruz needs a U.S. citizenship.
//He can trade his Canadian citizenship for your U.S.A. citizenship.
//Maybe he will even through in some Saskatchewan seal skin bindings.


I thought he had Cuban citizenship through his Dad. Why does he need citizenship in another country led by a socialist? Come on Cruz pick one or the other for citizenship, Cuba or Canada.
 
2013-09-28 01:47:02 PM

Rent Party: BMulligan: One of my good friends from college left the country 20 years ago, but that hasn't stopped him from going full teabagger. He asked me to look into formally relinquishing his citizenship, but when he saw that it involved actual effort he decided not to bother. On the rare occasions he returns to the States he'll simply hope that he doesn't get caught. He's a really good guy, but we don't talk about politics anymore.

How is he liking Somalia?


It's one of the few places he's never lived. He's lived in Australia, Greece, the Ukraine, the Czech Republic, and now he's moving to India.
 
2013-09-28 01:47:47 PM
I'm wonder whether they will feel like idiots when they realize that Obamacare didn't bankrupt the country and kill us all.

On the other hand, maybe they're just relieved to be moving somewhere where they don't have to deal with so many brown people.
 
2013-09-28 01:48:25 PM

Lost Thought 00: Just because of the relative ease of travel afforded to both, the only citizenship I would give up American citizenship for would be Canada or Britain. Any others would just make international travel too much of a headache.


Meh, an EU passport is pretty much just as good, better in some cases - like if you want to go to Cuba or you want a Chinese Visa cheaply ($100 more for being an American!   I think Romanian was listed somewhere between EU citizen and American citizens, so to the Chinese we are apparently even less desirable than Gyppos..)
 
2013-09-28 01:49:22 PM

BMulligan: Rent Party: BMulligan: One of my good friends from college left the country 20 years ago, but that hasn't stopped him from going full teabagger. He asked me to look into formally relinquishing his citizenship, but when he saw that it involved actual effort he decided not to bother. On the rare occasions he returns to the States he'll simply hope that he doesn't get caught. He's a really good guy, but we don't talk about politics anymore.

How is he liking Somalia?

It's one of the few places he's never lived. He's lived in Australia, Greece, the Ukraine, the Czech Republic, and now he's moving to India.


Except for Oz and Czech he has a real hardon for living in shiatholes, huh?
 
2013-09-28 01:49:30 PM
So can I ask a fark question?  Is Aristocles making jokes, and there are people who take him seriously?  If so, why are there so many people frothingly pissed off at him?  People either seem to be angry because they think he's spouting serious right-wing derp, or because they think he's not funny.  What's the story?
 
2013-09-28 01:51:25 PM

Bungles: Given the innate US dislike of taxation, your global citizen taxation system is very odd.

Even us tax-loving Europeans think that's ridiculous.


We are one of the most heavily taxed people on Earth.   But not as a result of oppressive big government.  It is a result of lots and lots of small local governments having tax authority.   Our federal income tax is relatively low, globally speaking.  So I pay that.   The state that I live in might also have an income tax.  My state doesn't, but it does have a very high sales tax.   The county I live in adds their own taxation onto that.   So does my city.   The fire district has a levy on my house.  So does the school district.   And the water and sewer district gets theirs, too.   And on an on it goes.   Death by a thousand cuts.

The problem is that most right wing retards just like to shake their fist at the sky and fellate our constitution without recognizing that the constitution is the instrument by which all these separate fiefdoms originate.    They can not simultaneously proclaim love of small government *and* low taxation, because the end result of small governments is high taxation, when taken in aggregate.
 
2013-09-28 01:52:32 PM
I feel so sorry for upper middle-class to wealthy Real Americans living abroad who now feel the crushing weight of no longer being able to ditch their civic duty by exploiting tax law.
 
2013-09-28 01:53:10 PM

BMulligan: Rent Party: BMulligan: One of my good friends from college left the country 20 years ago, but that hasn't stopped him from going full teabagger. He asked me to look into formally relinquishing his citizenship, but when he saw that it involved actual effort he decided not to bother. On the rare occasions he returns to the States he'll simply hope that he doesn't get caught. He's a really good guy, but we don't talk about politics anymore.

How is he liking Somalia?

It's one of the few places he's never lived. He's lived in Australia, Greece, the Ukraine, the Czech Republic, and now he's moving to India.


How can that be?  All of those places, with their social safety nets and socialized medicine would be anathema to a Teabagger.

I think your friend is having you on.
 
2013-09-28 01:56:21 PM

Rent Party: BMulligan: Rent Party: BMulligan: One of my good friends from college left the country 20 years ago, but that hasn't stopped him from going full teabagger. He asked me to look into formally relinquishing his citizenship, but when he saw that it involved actual effort he decided not to bother. On the rare occasions he returns to the States he'll simply hope that he doesn't get caught. He's a really good guy, but we don't talk about politics anymore.

How is he liking Somalia?

It's one of the few places he's never lived. He's lived in Australia, Greece, the Ukraine, the Czech Republic, and now he's moving to India.

How can that be?  All of those places, with their social safety nets and socialized medicine would be anathema to a Teabagger.

I think your friend is having you on.


It gets weirder - he trades carbon credits for a living, and his wife works in health care - specifically, finding ways to make cochlear implants affordable for people in the Third World.
 
2013-09-28 01:59:37 PM

cretinbob: rich white people problems


Not really, "A new law called the Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act (Fatca) will, from 1 July next year, require all financial institutions around the world to report directly to the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS) all the assets and incomes of any US citizens with $50,000 (£31,000) on their books. The US could withhold 30% of dividends and interest payments due to the banks that don't comply."

As well as the article states the forms you have to file taxes with if you are not a resident are very complicated, and you have to file if you make more than $9,300 regardless if you have been in the US for a single day or not and if you have to pay a much higher level of tax where you live so it is unlikely you would actually owe anything.  The whole thing is a bit bizarre, I am not aware of any other country that makes its citizens file taxes if they aren't resident and don't have any income in that country.

I know some Americans here in Germany have been turned down by German banks because it is just too much extra work in their opinion, and the article indicates that is same in other European countries.  I think it will get worse when Facta is in effect.
 
2013-09-28 02:02:07 PM
shocker most people posting didn't bother reading the article, it's about the fact that it is costing people 5 grand to do their taxes only to end up owing the US nothing anyway. It's an insane system, and something should be done about it.
 
2013-09-28 02:03:56 PM

Ricardo Klement: spongeboob: Another Headline implying that people are leaving the US,
Full Article people who haven't lived in the US for decades deciding that it is not worth the hassle to keep their Citizenship.

Pretty much done in one. Yes, taxes are a cause of this, but it's not like people are pullin' a Jed Clampett and moving from California to greener pastures in Prussia.


It's not even paying taxes that are the cause - you have to be both pulling in  over around $80k or $90k and living in a country with a lower tax burden than the US before you have to cut the IRS a check, so basically a few expats in the Middle East. It's that you have to file taxes to start with, which is a burden that most folks with no plan to return to the US could do without.
 
2013-09-28 02:06:53 PM

Target Builder: Ricardo Klement: spongeboob: Another Headline implying that people are leaving the US,
Full Article people who haven't lived in the US for decades deciding that it is not worth the hassle to keep their Citizenship.

Pretty much done in one. Yes, taxes are a cause of this, but it's not like people are pullin' a Jed Clampett and moving from California to greener pastures in Prussia.

It's not even paying taxes that are the cause - you have to be both pulling in  over around $80k or $90k and living in a country with a lower tax burden than the US before you have to cut the IRS a check, so basically a few expats in the Middle East. It's that you have to file taxes to start with, which is a burden that most folks with no plan to return to the US could do without.


AND you have to be in a country which doesn't have a favorable tax treaty with the U.S.
 
2013-09-28 02:10:03 PM

J. Frank Parnell: FTA: The list is compiled by the Federal Register, and while no reasons are given, the big looming factor seems to be tax. A new law called the Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act (Fatca) will, from 1 July next year.

So they've been giving up their citizenship over something that will happen in the distant future?

I guess that's better than recognizing any of the other, more embarrassing, reasons people might.


While foreign financial institutions aren't required to follow FATCA until next summer, some will be adopting its policies early. And up until July it was supposed to go into effect January 1, 2014. For most people, this law is really important, not because your income will get caught, but because you will get caught for failure to file information returns. And you will be liable for these penalties for 2014 if you cease your citizenship on January 1, 2014.

Then you have the IRS cracking down on FBARs, 5471s, 8891s, 3520s, 3520-As etc. Forms that have been required for years, but largely unenforced until recently for expats. Plus the recent introduction of the 8938 which increases the cost of having your returns prepared.

Over the past 5 or so years there has been a lot of motivation to abandon your U.S. citizenship if you don't intend to use it and aren't rich. But these people are long term expats holding dual citizenship, so, if anything, it is probably for the benefit of the U.S. if they do renounce their citizenship. And for the wealthy people that might actually pay tax your get to collect a bunch up front for expatriation.
 
2013-09-28 02:12:10 PM

Rent Party: We are one of the most heavily taxed people on Earth.   But not as a result of oppressive big government.  It is a result of lots and lots of small local governments having tax authority.   Our federal income tax is relatively low, globally speaking.  So I pay that.   The state that I live in might also have an income tax.  My state doesn't, but it does have a very high sales tax.   The county I live in adds their own taxation onto that.   So does my city.   The fire district has a levy on my house.  So does the school district.   And the water and sewer district gets theirs, too.   And on an on it goes.   Death by a thousand cuts.


I live in Brooklyn and make an okay living, so I pay a pretty high combined tax rate compared to most Americans.

It doesn't come close to what I paid in Germany with nearly half my salary taken off and then a 20% vat on top of that (and then having to pay someone to deal with my US taxes to prevent uncle sam from double dipping).  We are nowhere near the most heavily taxed people on Earth.
 
2013-09-28 02:12:56 PM

Headso: shocker most people posting didn't bother reading the article, it's about the fact that it is costing people 5 grand to do their taxes only to end up owing the US nothing anyway. It's an insane system, and something should be done about it.


The UK loves taxation, bloody well loves it... yet most people in the UK don't even have to think about taxes - over 90% of people don't even have to file a tax return. You only have to do one if you're "unusual" (basically if you're self employed or perform large-scale share transactions).


Your system of legislation though "tax credits" has created a monster. I'm the only person I even know who has any contact with an accountant, because I'm self-employed internationally.
 
2013-09-28 02:14:26 PM

spongeboob: EngineerAU: vpb: "Skyrocketed" to 1,131 cases.  That's something like 0.00000377% of the population.

Sure, it might not seem like many now, but in another year or two, we will be sorry when the management consultants and payphone phone sanitizers go Galt and leave the rest of us behind. And don't forget that guy Kevin who works the evening shift cleaning the backroom at Walgreen's. If Obama isn't in prison by 2014, Kevin is totally going Galt. We've been warned!

So you like phones.


meh... I was phoning it in.
 
2013-09-28 02:15:13 PM

Bungles: Given the innate US dislike of taxation, your global citizen taxation system is very odd.


It's designed to leave no home for tax avoidance/evasion.  Try it sometime.


ar_gyrion: Not really, "A new law called the Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act (Fatca) will, from 1 July next year, require all financial institutions around the world to report directly to the US Internal Revenue Service (IRS) all the assets and incomes of any US citizens with $50,000 (£31,000) on their books. The US could withhold 30% of dividends and interest payments due to the banks that don't comply."

As well as the article states the forms you have to file taxes with if you are not a resident are very complicated, and you have to file if you make more than $9,300 regardless if you have been in the US for a single day or not and if you have to pay a much higher level of tax where you live so it is unlikely you would actually owe anything. The whole thing is a bit bizarre, I am not aware of any other country that makes its citizens file taxes if they aren't resident and don't have any income in that country.

I know some Americans here in Germany have been turned down by German banks because it is just too much extra work in their opinion, and the article indicates that is same in other European countries. I think it will get worse when Facta is in effect.


Blame those that do avoid/evade taxes - along with the accountants that enable it - for that problem, not the government.  They're the ones that made the current situation possible.

At least former citizens aren't [yet] being fully recorded beyond name before losing citizenship, given the motive to use "unreachable" jurisdiction to avoid/evade taxation.
 
Displayed 50 of 107 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report