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(Guardian)   Evolutionary biologist confirms dieting is waste of time in today's world. "You know the movie Wall-E? We are headed that way, and unless we do something I see very little evidence that things are going to change very much"   (theguardian.com) divider line 76
    More: Sad, evolutionary biology, cultural evolution, Kalahari Desert, Crohn's disease, legumes  
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2992 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Sep 2013 at 10:36 AM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-28 09:01:21 AM
Well, he's right, in that dieting is an emergency measure, and temporary, and the real goal should be to put towards changing habits and eating healthier in the first place. Diets don't work in the long term, but changing habits and that includes exercising more and better have the only real effect.

Eat better, exercise more. That's about as simple as it gets, but folks want to hope beyond hope that if they just do this ONE thing, that they'll magically "get better." You have to look at the whole picture.

I bike 100 to 120 miles a week. That pretty much means that I burn a fair number of calories and I bank very little. I stop biking, and continue eating the way I do, which is to say, I eat a LOT, then oddly enough, I'm not going to be surprised if I start putting on the flab. I sit my tochis down to do nothing for a week but play video games and fart around on Fark, I'm not going to be surprised if I start to bank calories, because that's what the body does. You have to look at the entire picture, not just a singular facet.

Eat a varied diet, use different sources, keep interested in the process, and have fun with it. Eat well, exercise well, have fun. Keep yourself motivated to moving and using the frame you have. Live healthier, not just eat healthier. Eating is only a part of the picture. You want to change, you have to change the entire picture, and inculcate good habits all around, not just change one thing.
 
2013-09-28 09:38:50 AM
Dieting is by definition temporary and it's a pointless effort unless you change how you eat and exercise permanently.

A 12-pack a day alcoholic will not improve his condition by only drinking 11 cans every day. Why anyone thinks skipping breakfast and drinking diet Cokes all day will make a difference is beyond me.
 
2013-09-28 10:09:58 AM
My biggest problem is trying to fit in exercise during my  week.   Because I am on my feet all day (9hrs) at work all week (40hrs), my body is too tired to actually exercise.  My days off I just want to sit around.  I've been trying to change that by taking hiking excursions once a week but I've been terrible sticking with it.  My eating habits are okay, and I've gotten my high cholesterol down to more safer levels.   I just wish I could find the energy to be more active....or find me a better job.
 
2013-09-28 10:43:06 AM
Having the willpower not to eat a giant bag of chips & an entire tub of ice cream?

Ah, forget about it, because science!
 
2013-09-28 10:46:17 AM
I don't know the movie Wall-E. Could someone point out the relevance of this reference? Thanks.
 
2013-09-28 10:47:12 AM

raerae1980: My biggest problem is trying to fit in exercise during my  week.   Because I am on my feet all day (9hrs) at work all week (40hrs), my body is too tired to actually exercise.


My major issue is I work on my ass all day. I've actually looked into getting some more labor-intensive just to get the exercise benefits that would come with the work. But... hard to give up a work-at-home job that also employs my wife, making scheduling a whole lot easier.

And saving gas.

And writing off part of my mortgage and internet connection.
 
2013-09-28 10:47:19 AM
Ban A/C; make people sweat it out
 
2013-09-28 10:49:05 AM
We're going to have giant space ships flying around the solar system? Cool!
 
2013-09-28 10:49:09 AM

simplicimus: I don't know the movie Wall-E. Could someone point out the relevance of this reference? Thanks.


Earth filled with garbage. Humans went into space. Humans are lardasses in hover-chairs that cater to their every need and whim.  A robot love story happens.
 
2013-09-28 10:49:25 AM
TFA: "it takes superhuman effort to lose weight "

So how fat IS this guy?
 
2013-09-28 10:51:00 AM
So I think the future of our planet is a lot more overweight people with a lot of very costly chronic diseases that will never be easily treated. So unless we really grapple with helping people change their diets and get them to be fit, these problems will continue to mount

Boo, subby. Article doesn't really say that--it just says what anyone with any common sense already knows (and what I've heard here a million times already)--we didn't evolve to live in our modern world, with sedentary lives and an excess of food.

Also, you sound fat.
 
2013-09-28 10:52:26 AM
Maybe if we stopped converting perfectly nutritious meat and produce into chemical filled "vitamin enriched" swill and selling it as food...
 
2013-09-28 11:07:06 AM

fluffy2097: simplicimus: I don't know the movie Wall-E. Could someone point out the relevance of this reference? Thanks.

Earth filled with garbage. Humans went into space. Humans are lardasses in hover-chairs that cater to their every need and whim.  A robot love story happens.


Thanks.
 
2013-09-28 11:07:30 AM
I need to figure out some way of dropping a few pounds. Partial paralysis, limited use of my leg and my arm, and living in each day in excruciating pain. I can not walk a few miles a day like I used to do to try and keep some pounds off. I can barely walk a hundred feet now, and doing so has consequences.

Need to drop a few pounds. Don't want to end up as a Wall E movie extra.
 
2013-09-28 11:10:52 AM

edmo: Dieting is by definition temporary and it's a pointless effort unless you change how you eat and exercise permanently.

A 12-pack a day alcoholic will not improve his condition by only drinking 11 cans every day. Why anyone thinks skipping breakfast and drinking diet Cokes all day will make a difference is beyond me.




Don't skip meals and stop being fat.
 
2013-09-28 11:20:09 AM

fluffy2097: simplicimus: I don't know the movie Wall-E. Could someone point out the relevance of this reference? Thanks.

Earth filled with garbage. Humans went into space. Humans are lardasses in hover-chairs that cater to their every need and whim.  A robot love story happens.


You forgot the part where the internet speculates that Wall-E murdered all the other Wall-Es and that is why he has their spare parts lying around.
 
2013-09-28 11:24:42 AM

Veteran of the Cola Wars: I need to figure out some way of dropping a few pounds. Partial paralysis, limited use of my leg and my arm, and living in each day in excruciating pain. I can not walk a few miles a day like I used to do to try and keep some pounds off. I can barely walk a hundred feet now, and doing so has consequences.

Need to drop a few pounds. Don't want to end up as a Wall E movie extra.


Hop to it!
 
2013-09-28 11:32:21 AM

simplicimus: I don't know the movie Wall-E. Could someone point out the relevance of this reference? Thanks.


GOP is evil, we should invade Syria and ban civilian ownership of guns, socialize healthcare and destroy all large Corporation.
 
2013-09-28 11:34:32 AM
"I'll make a bet, I don't have evidence to prove it, but if we were to cut back on how and when we use antibiotics we could decrease a lot of immune disease that range from allergies to coeliac disease or Crohn's Disease, maybe even autism, the list goes on."

You can stop reading this doofus right there.
 
2013-09-28 11:35:31 AM

utahraptor2: simplicimus: I don't know the movie Wall-E. Could someone point out the relevance of this reference? Thanks.

GOP is evil, we should invade Syria and ban civilian ownership of guns, socialize healthcare and destroy all large Corporation.


Fixed that for you.
 
2013-09-28 11:37:10 AM
ftfa: "Once they survive childhood they tended to live much longer, until their 70s, 80s or even 90s."

Yes, a million times f*ck yes thank you. I'm so sick of idiots saying "well the average lifespan in (insert ancient times here) was 35". No, dopey. You didn't die of "old age" at 35, it just means you had a higher chance of dying as a child. Where did all these busts and paintings of old men come from?
 
2013-09-28 11:37:13 AM
Good.  The fatter everyone else gets, the better I look by comparison.
 
2013-09-28 11:38:05 AM
Yes, all diets are the same; we should categorize them together and make blanket statements about all of them.
 
2013-09-28 11:43:41 AM

Orgasmatron138: Yes, all diets are the same; we should categorize them together and make blanket statements about all of them.


I would say yes, they are all the same. Posters above said it correct: lifestyle changes are the only thing that works.

Try to live healthy, and you'll naturally lose weight. Sign up for myfitnesspal and track everything you eat, you'll quickly notice how much extra you consume in a day that you just don't need.
 
2013-09-28 11:54:05 AM

Begoggle: "I'll make a bet, I don't have evidence to prove it, but if we were to cut back on how and when we use antibiotics we could decrease a lot of immune disease that range from allergies to coeliac disease or Crohn's Disease, maybe even autism, the list goes on."

You can stop reading this doofus right there.


Yeah, what would a Harvard biologist know about biology? Everything I need to know, I get from Fark discussion threads.
 
2013-09-28 11:54:51 AM
Okay, I think the general public has something wrong about diets; a diet is not a short term thing. If you are on a diet the idea is that is what you do. Period. We don't say a lion is on a diet of zebra for the next 3 months, a lion will eat zebra indefinitely. You can have changes in your diet for a time (for the next 3 months, no X) but you should have a general diet that lasts for years on end.
 
2013-09-28 11:55:50 AM

Veteran of the Cola Wars: I need to figure out some way of dropping a few pounds. Partial paralysis, limited use of my leg and my arm, and living in each day in excruciating pain. I can not walk a few miles a day like I used to do to try and keep some pounds off. I can barely walk a hundred feet now, and doing so has consequences.

Need to drop a few pounds. Don't want to end up as a Wall E movie extra.


Maybe try swimming? It's about as low-impact as exercise gets. Eating healthier's great but it's only half the battle.
 
2013-09-28 12:02:52 PM
And I just managed to lose five pounds off my butt. Stupid men world.
 
2013-09-28 12:04:05 PM

ozebb: Veteran of the Cola Wars: I need to figure out some way of dropping a few pounds. Partial paralysis, limited use of my leg and my arm, and living in each day in excruciating pain. I can not walk a few miles a day like I used to do to try and keep some pounds off. I can barely walk a hundred feet now, and doing so has consequences.

Need to drop a few pounds. Don't want to end up as a Wall E movie extra.

Maybe try swimming? It's about as low-impact as exercise gets. Eating healthier's great but it's only half the battle.


You don't really burn that many calories exercising unless you are doing very intense cardiovascular exercise.  Restricting calories is the main way to lose weight.  Don't get me wrong, cardiovascular exercise is great for your health and everyone should do it.  But as far as just losing weight goes, reducing calories is by far the most effective way to lose the pounds.
 
2013-09-28 12:21:22 PM

hubiestubert: Well, he's right, in that dieting is an emergency measure, and temporary, and the real goal should be to put towards changing habits and eating healthier in the first place. Diets don't work in the long term, but changing habits and that includes exercising more and better have the only real effect.


That was his whole point.
 
2013-09-28 12:24:30 PM

Pincy: You don't really burn that many calories exercising unless you are doing very intense cardiovascular exercise.  Restricting calories is the main way to lose weight.  Don't get me wrong, cardiovascular exercise is great for your health and everyone should do it.  But as far as just losing weight goes, reducing calories is by far the most effective way to lose the pounds.


You must combine diet with exercise. If you do not, your body is hard-wired to compensate for caloric restriction in ways that make it harder to lose weight and keep weight down. Likewise, if all you do is cardiovascular, you're doing it wrong. You also have to do some form of weight/resistance work. Best weight and health regimen I ever had was a job stocking groceries. It was 8 hours of nearly constant low-to-moderate resistance work that had to be done at a high rate. The employee discount made it cheaper to eat healthy. Don't listen to the idiots who say you must never "mix" cardiovascular and weight/resistance. Mixing them is fine for health purposes. It's just not efficient for athletic performance purposes.
 
2013-09-28 12:27:45 PM
Pure anecdotal observation:
I spent the first 30 years on my life in an area of the country (NYC) that had seasons, and worked in delis for a long time. I would see that colder weather meant people ordering foods with more fat, warm weather not so much. And not many fat people in Manhattan, because there's a lot of walking involved.
Now I live in Houston, which has maybe 2 seasons >80F and <80F. I don't know if NYC eating habits are the same here, more fat in winter, but nobody walks much.
 
2013-09-28 12:36:39 PM
Exercise shouldn't be about burning calories while you work out. It's about getting your body to burn more while you're not exercising, since most of your day you aren't working out. Increase your metabolism, eat better foods, and the weight will come off. I've lost 35 lbs this year with that approach.
 
2013-09-28 12:42:40 PM
So, where exactly are all the fatties?  Seriously, I find a few, but, not enough to scream that there is some sort of evolutionary fact that we are going to be fatties riding hover cars.  Even at McDonalds and Walmart I don't see all of these fat people.  I work in a call center, a building full of people who eat and sir on their asses for 8-10 hours a day and I haven't seen more than five fatties.

This is why I call bullshiat at people like ths.  I just haven't seen enough fat people for me to think that the problem is as big as doom and gloom people are making it out to be.
 
2013-09-28 12:46:29 PM
When I lived in a big city and had a job with some physical elements to it, I was at a healthy weight. I didn't have a car. I biked, walked, or took public transportation to get around. (public transportation usually involves a lot of walking).

I'm living the 50-60 minute per day car-commute, 8 hours at a computer lifestyle now, and man has it turned me into a fatty-bo-batty. If I had a flying car like in Wall-E, I'd probably look like an obese baby too.

(because of various domestic issues, I have to live far from work.)
 
2013-09-28 12:48:33 PM

Great Janitor: So, where exactly are all the fatties?  Seriously, I find a few, but, not enough to scream that there is some sort of evolutionary fact that we are going to be fatties riding hover cars.  Even at McDonalds and Walmart I don't see all of these fat people.  I work in a call center, a building full of people who eat and sir on their asses for 8-10 hours a day and I haven't seen more than five fatties.

This is why I call bullshiat at people like ths.  I just haven't seen enough fat people for me to think that the problem is as big as doom and gloom people are making it out to be.


Come to Houston for a weekend.
 
2013-09-28 01:02:23 PM

fluffy2097: simplicimus: I don't know the movie Wall-E. Could someone point out the relevance of this reference? Thanks.

Earth filled with garbage. Humans went into space. Humans are lardasses in hover-chairs that cater to their every need and whim.  A robot love story happens.


to add a visual

i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-28 01:03:43 PM

Begoggle: "I'll make a bet, I don't have evidence to prove it, but if we were to cut back on how and when we use antibiotics we could decrease a lot of immune disease that range from allergies to coeliac disease or Crohn's Disease, maybe even autism, the list goes on."

You can stop reading this doofus right there.


This.

Whilst there is some fairly decently-grounded speculation re allergies and the "hygeine hypothesis" (namely "since our bodies no longer fight off worms they try to kill other allergens") most actual proofs I've seen re the "hygeine hypothesis" involved areas that formerly had large rates of helminth infestation (roundworms and hookworms in humans) that had allergy rates go up when universal deworming succeeded in wiping out the worm infestations.  (This is also why there does seem to be a rather interesting link between experimental temporary worm infection and functional cures of Crohn's; apparently helminth infections DO reset the autoimmune farkitude that occurs in Crohn's to attack the RIGHT things instead of the intestine itself.)  Even the whole "worm cure" for Crohn's is quite controversial (and we know THAT tends to work well); even worse, antibiotics pretty much have nothing to do with killing worms. :D

That said--there is a strong genetic link to some autoimmune disorders (particularly true celiac disease and type I diabetes--in some cases, there's even a cross-association between the two that can be described as "autoimmune diabetes type 1a").

And as for autism...more and more evidence shows autism to be almost exclusively a genetic disease that can be best described as an inborn error in cellular differentiation and organisation.  Brains of people with ASDs show excessive neuronal connections and less differentiation into "layers" than those of neurotypical people; this explains the overstimulation and synesthesia common in ASDs (basically folks with autism have a gigabit connection to the world where we have a 100t connection, still have the same old human processors, AND their connection to the world is prone to a shiatload of crosstalk).  Recent research has found that whatever goes sideways goes sideways VERY early in development; the very same cellular differentiation and migration issues that occur in the brains of folks with ASDs have been found to occur in the placentas of folks with ASDs (and the placenta is the VERY FIRST organ that forms, thus pointing STRONGLY to a genetic cause).  In addition, there is a definite parental-age-link with ASD rates, with ASD rates going up quite noticeably in fathers who were over 40 when conceiving children (much as there are higher rates of chromosomal disorders in mothers who were over 40 when conceiving children); basically eggs and swimmers (and their genetic code) do degrade as we get older, and older swimmers and eggs do tend to have more errors that can lead to stuff like ASDs.
 
2013-09-28 01:04:03 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: fluffy2097: simplicimus: I don't know the movie Wall-E. Could someone point out the relevance of this reference? Thanks.

Earth filled with garbage. Humans went into space. Humans are lardasses in hover-chairs that cater to their every need and whim.  A robot love story happens.

to add a visual

[i.imgur.com image 300x225]


Wow, that guy has the new iScreen 8.
 
2013-09-28 01:06:29 PM

Begoggle: "I'll make a bet, I don't have evidence to prove it, but if we were to cut back on how and when we use antibiotics we could decrease a lot of immune disease that range from allergies to coeliac disease or Crohn's Disease, maybe even autism, the list goes on."

You can stop reading this doofus right there.


I agree. He's wildly speculating, possibly with some small shreds of evidence. Elsewhere in the article he claims "we can prevent myopia." I'd like to know how. Nearsightedness is extremely prevalent in developed countries where it is very uncommon in places that aren't very nice to live. Tribesmen don't generally need glasses, why do so many of us need them? I'm an ophthalmologist, and as far as I know the jury is still out on this. I've heard theories from diet, to amount of time spent in sunlight, to the preponderance of "near work," but none of these have been close to being proven - tenuous associations at best.  Guess that's good enough when you're hawking a book.
 
2013-09-28 01:08:07 PM
Or put more succintly, this guy is essentially claiming that this is the cure (what with his mangling of the "Hygeine Hypothesis"):

www.ukgraphicsdesigners.com
 
2013-09-28 01:14:15 PM

sure haven't: Orgasmatron138: Yes, all diets are the same; we should categorize them together and make blanket statements about all of them.

I would say yes, they are all the same. Posters above said it correct: lifestyle changes are the only thing that works.

Try to live healthy, and you'll naturally lose weight. Sign up for myfitnesspal and track everything you eat, you'll quickly notice how much extra you consume in a day that you just don't need.


This! I love my myfitnesspal! I've manage to lose about 50 pounds. It's a great way to pay attention to what you eat. Also, to track your exercises.
 
2013-09-28 01:44:41 PM

Son of Thunder: Begoggle: "I'll make a bet, I don't have evidence to prove it, but if we were to cut back on how and when we use antibiotics we could decrease a lot of immune disease that range from allergies to coeliac disease or Crohn's Disease, maybe even autism, the list goes on."

You can stop reading this doofus right there.

Yeah, what would a Harvard biologist know about biology? Everything I need to know, I get from Fark discussion threads.


The point is that when someone says or writes "I'll make a bet, I don't have evidence to prove it ", you can stop reading there. It doesn't matter who it is or what their credentials are. They just saidthey don't have evidence, so if they are so authoritative you should believe it.

It's about as pure as the "argument by authority" fallacy gets.
 
2013-09-28 01:46:43 PM

utahraptor2: simplicimus: I don't know the movie Wall-E. Could someone point out the relevance of this reference? Thanks.

GOP is evil, we should invade Syria and ban civilian ownership of guns, socialize healthcare and destroy all large Corporation.


A. That will only solve half our problems.

B. It will make the other half worse.

C. With all that government cheese and biscuits we'll still be fat.

Extreme solutions never work.
 
2013-09-28 01:54:40 PM

sure haven't: ftfa: "Once they survive childhood they tended to live much longer, until their 70s, 80s or even 90s."

Yes, a million times f*ck yes thank you. I'm so sick of idiots saying "well the average lifespan in (insert ancient times here) was 35". No, dopey. You didn't die of "old age" at 35, it just means you had a higher chance of dying as a child. Where did all these busts and paintings of old men come from?


People my age are expected to die at an average age of 87. This really makes me doubt the benefit of that hunter gatherer diet. Hell, 50% of women, and 33% of men, born this year are expected to reach 100 according to some demographics bureau.
 
2013-09-28 02:44:44 PM

sure haven't: ftfa: "Once they survive childhood they tended to live much longer, until their 70s, 80s or even 90s."

Yes, a million times f*ck yes thank you. I'm so sick of idiots saying "well the average lifespan in (insert ancient times here) was 35". No, dopey. You didn't die of "old age" at 35, it just means you had a higher chance of dying as a child. Where did all these busts and paintings of old men come from?


Averages, in general, are a terribly measure of non-strictly numerical things.

Averages are good for sport stats and mathematical sequences. Average for social metrics is horrible. Country A has a GDP of 10,000,000 dollars a year and 2 people live there. It might be either 2 guys earning 5 million each or one guy earning everything and the other earning nothing.

Median values are much better to measure human situation. Instead of finding the average life expectancy, find the ages where people die the most. THAT's the true life expectancy you should expect.
 
2013-09-28 03:00:02 PM

hubiestubert: Well, he's right, in that dieting is an emergency measure, and temporary, and the real goal should be to put towards changing habits and eating healthier in the first place. Diets don't work in the long term, but changing habits and that includes exercising more and better have the only real effect.

Eat better, exercise more. That's about as simple as it gets, but folks want to hope beyond hope that if they just do this ONE thing, that they'll magically "get better." You have to look at the whole picture.

I bike 100 to 120 miles a week. That pretty much means that I burn a fair number of calories and I bank very little. I stop biking, and continue eating the way I do, which is to say, I eat a LOT, then oddly enough, I'm not going to be surprised if I start putting on the flab. I sit my tochis down to do nothing for a week but play video games and fart around on Fark, I'm not going to be surprised if I start to bank calories, because that's what the body does. You have to look at the entire picture, not just a singular facet.

Eat a varied diet, use different sources, keep interested in the process, and have fun with it. Eat well, exercise well, have fun. Keep yourself motivated to moving and using the frame you have. Live healthier, not just eat healthier. Eating is only a part of the picture. You want to change, you have to change the entire picture, and inculcate good habits all around, not just change one thing.


But I have been assured by Fark experts that all I have to do is shut my fat mouth and I will naturally loose weight because calories in vs out.

Diets don't work because when you completely deny yourself food that you have been eating all your life, you WILL binge.... which reminds me that THIS is appropriate.

/you are right btw... it's a combination, oh and - anything and everything IN MODERATION.
 
2013-09-28 03:01:25 PM
Daniel Lieberman: 'Dieting is a disaster for everyone'

No shiat, it's called a "lifestyle change" if you want to avoid becoming fat. You should be able to meet your weekly nutritional needs by filling in 80-90% of your weekly calories with nutrient-dense, minimally-processed foods. The rest can be filled in with junk food.
 
2013-09-28 03:03:57 PM
the people were fat in Wall-E because of long term exposure to microgravity
 
2013-09-28 03:04:19 PM
You know, there is a simple, cheap solution to this problem. It's called liberals. Why can't you just admit we are right and move on?

Michelle Obama: you know she's right, the skinny-assed upper-middle biatch. STFU and back away slowly from the over-sized bacon burger.
 
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