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(SeattlePI)   UW lab worker rushed to hospital after "bottom fell out" of container holding over two liters of hydrochloric acid solution. Nobody said science would be easy   (blog.seattlepi.com) divider line 213
    More: Scary, hydrochloric acid, University of Washington, Seattle Fire Department, UW lab, decontamination, oil spills, corrosive, containers  
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9643 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Sep 2013 at 9:16 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



213 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-09-27 07:58:59 PM
tvmedia.ign.com

/oblig
 
2013-09-27 08:00:21 PM
CST

There was a certain midwest engineering college that gave all the incoming freshman the following assignment:

Make a chemically powered model car

There were quite a few well meaning but mediocre students who settled for simple (safe) chemical reactions, such as combining vinegar and baking soda to make water and CO2. Some others were a little more adventurous.

One young student, not really knowing chemistry (but figuring he did), just walked down to the chemical storeroom and asked for "strong hydrochloric acid". The stockroom guy, apparently devoid of sense, looked around and found an ancient bottle of 8 molar HCL. Figuring that the kid knew what he was asking for, handed over the acid.

The wayward freshman proceeded with the bottle back to his dorm room to experiment. This is where things get a little fuzzy, but it suffices to say that in the course of said activity his bottle shattered. Three floors of the dorm were evacuated for several hours while the gasses vented. The wayward freshman was first hosed down by the school and then had to stand outside at some length with no pants on. It's rumored that when he returned to his room his keyboard had melted and fused onto his desk, and that all metal surfaces (including his roommates) had become severely rusted.

Following this incident the chemical stockroom implemented stricter controls over who was allowed access to ancient bottles of extremely strong acids.
 
2013-09-27 08:00:53 PM
At least it wasn't HF or some other solution. HCl will burn you pretty bad, but it's natural. You make it in your stomach. HF isn't natural and while it won't eat dead meat like in Breaking Bad, it will kill you. It's contact poison and can give you a heart attack, or just go to town inside your body and do all kinds of nasty.
 
2013-09-27 08:01:41 PM
lh5.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-09-27 08:20:20 PM

Fubini: CST

There was a certain midwest engineering college that gave all the incoming freshman the following assignment:

Make a chemically powered model car

There were quite a few well meaning but mediocre students who settled for simple (safe) chemical reactions, such as combining vinegar and baking soda to make water and CO2. Some others were a little more adventurous.

One young student, not really knowing chemistry (but figuring he did), just walked down to the chemical storeroom and asked for "strong hydrochloric acid". The stockroom guy, apparently devoid of sense, looked around and found an ancient bottle of 8 molar HCL. Figuring that the kid knew what he was asking for, handed over the acid.

The wayward freshman proceeded with the bottle back to his dorm room to experiment. This is where things get a little fuzzy, but it suffices to say that in the course of said activity his bottle shattered. Three floors of the dorm were evacuated for several hours while the gasses vented. The wayward freshman was first hosed down by the school and then had to stand outside at some length with no pants on. It's rumored that when he returned to his room his keyboard had melted and fused onto his desk, and that all metal surfaces (including his roommates) had become severely rusted.

Following this incident the chemical stockroom implemented stricter controls over who was allowed access to ancient bottles of extremely strong acids.


In the Penn State dorm rules, there's one addendum that obviously has a backstory. Sadly, it predated the 2004 class sufficiently that the RA who showed me was unawares of the deets.

Anyway, the rule is the last rule on appropriate hallway use. It reads something like "No go-karts, rocket powered cars, or similar vehicles are permitted to be ridden in the hallways."

I mean, really. That sounds like someone had a party.
 
2013-09-27 08:34:06 PM

www.thomassci.com

 
2013-09-27 08:44:19 PM
cdn.arwrath.com
 
2013-09-27 09:20:00 PM
That'll clear the ol' sinuses.
 
2013-09-27 09:21:06 PM
Bottom? I think you mean front...
img.fark.net
 
2013-09-27 09:21:08 PM
Ugh.  I work with Hydrofluoric acid daily...not good stuff.  Especially if you have any cuts/scrapes, anything.

/Use it to strip chrome/aluminum
 
2013-09-27 09:22:03 PM

fusillade762: [tvmedia.ign.com image 468x270]

/oblig


img2u.info
 
2013-09-27 09:23:26 PM

alizeran: Bottom? I think you mean front...
[img.fark.net image 288x216]


Came for this. Leaving by cab, 'cause the ministry car's front fell off.
 
2013-09-27 09:24:38 PM
blog.seattlepi.com

Why is the Seattle Fire Department using Instagram?
 
2013-09-27 09:25:11 PM

alizeran: Bottom? I think you mean front...
[img.fark.net image 288x216]


DAMMIT!!!

Everyone is beating my to my image posts today.
 
2013-09-27 09:26:02 PM

tetsoushima: [blog.seattlepi.com image 568x426]

Why is the Seattle Fire Department using Instagram?


That's not 1:1 format, so ... not Instagram?
 
2013-09-27 09:26:11 PM

oi43.tinypic.com

 
2013-09-27 09:29:12 PM
I spilled some HCl all over my arm in lab once. Freaked out for a sec, then just sat there and watched my wet arm do nothing. Rinsed it off after a minute or so then told the TA his HCl sucks and is ghey.

I thought it would at least fizz like H2O2.
 
2013-09-27 09:31:54 PM
Robocop?
 
2013-09-27 09:32:01 PM
Meh, HCL is nasty.  HFL is worse.  It won't kill you for several agonizing weeks, as you watch your flesh slough off like rotted spam.

/former semiconductor manufacturing work slave who dealt with such nasties.
//Fark TI
 
2013-09-27 09:32:40 PM
Word of advice for any chemistry lab technicians: don't keep large such amounts of corrosive acid in any single container.
 
2013-09-27 09:34:13 PM
www.comicbookmovie.com

The worker suffered some facial scarring, but is expected to make a full recovery.
 
2013-09-27 09:34:41 PM
 
2013-09-27 09:36:49 PM
So the acid dissolved the base and wasn't neutralized?
 
2013-09-27 09:37:41 PM

StopLurkListen: tetsoushima: [blog.seattlepi.com image 568x426]

Why is the Seattle Fire Department using Instagram?

That's not 1:1 format, so ... not Instagram?


I guess I meant odd filtered look.
 
2013-09-27 09:38:58 PM
http://i.minus.com/ibazhDkbGDPb5P.gif  I thought this gif was relevant to the thread.  too large to fit on here, but relevant.
 
2013-09-27 09:40:29 PM

Fubini: CST

There was a certain midwest engineering college that gave all the incoming freshman the following assignment:

Make a chemically powered model car

There were quite a few well meaning but mediocre students who settled for simple (safe) chemical reactions, such as combining vinegar and baking soda to make water and CO2. Some others were a little more adventurous.

One young student, not really knowing chemistry (but figuring he did), just walked down to the chemical storeroom and asked for "strong hydrochloric acid". The stockroom guy, apparently devoid of sense, looked around and found an ancient bottle of 8 molar HCL. Figuring that the kid knew what he was asking for, handed over the acid.

The wayward freshman proceeded with the bottle back to his dorm room to experiment. This is where things get a little fuzzy, but it suffices to say that in the course of said activity his bottle shattered. Three floors of the dorm were evacuated for several hours while the gasses vented. The wayward freshman was first hosed down by the school and then had to stand outside at some length with no pants on. It's rumored that when he returned to his room his keyboard had melted and fused onto his desk, and that all metal surfaces (including his roommates) had become severely rusted.

Following this incident the chemical stockroom implemented stricter controls over who was allowed access to ancient bottles of extremely strong acids.


Similar thing happened at my campus. The doofus didn't realize the handle on the bucket was loose and swung it like a pail of water. A litre of 11 M HCl in a second floor lab. The entire wing was evacuated and all the tiling had to be replaced when it was melted into a puddle of cheap vinyl goo. One unfortunate girl inhaled a wiff in the panic and got a lung infection for three weeks from the damage.

The dumbasses in my class can't figure out why I keep reminding them to put on gloves before they handle the concentrated acid stock bottles. I don't care about them, I'd just rather not see someone's flesh get melted off in front of me.

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: I spilled some HCl all over my arm in lab once. Freaked out for a sec, then just sat there and watched my wet arm do nothing. Rinsed it off after a minute or so then told the TA his HCl sucks and is ghey.

I thought it would at least fizz like H2O2.


What was the molarity and volume, oh great and wise chemist?
 
2013-09-27 09:41:18 PM
Basically, he's screwed.
 
2013-09-27 09:42:53 PM

doglover: At least it wasn't HF or some other solution. HCl will burn you pretty bad, but it's natural. You make it in your stomach. HF isn't natural and while it won't eat dead meat like in Breaking Bad, it will kill you. It's contact poison and can give you a heart attack, or just go to town inside your body and do all kinds of nasty.


I'll see your HF and raise you ClF3

/to say nothing of hexanitrohexaazaisowurtzitane and the aptly-named FOOF
 
2013-09-27 09:45:12 PM

JohnAnnArbor: That'll clear the ol' sinuses.


Yes, yes it does.

The hood in my college Chem lab was used when it should have been.
 
2013-09-27 09:46:10 PM
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-09-27 09:46:30 PM
Nothing like a small faceful of HCl fumes to clean your sinuses.

/Oh, I'll just open this empty bottle by the waste bottles and use it as the new RCA-2 acid waste bottle. Surely, this has been rinsed, and SON OF A biatch THEY DIDN'T RINSE IT AND THE TINY BIT OF HCL LEFT ALL VAPORIZED DAMN THAT STINGS
//I'm still an idiot for not opening that in the hood, but it was *empty*.
 
2013-09-27 09:47:13 PM
i5.photobucket.com

On the bright side, at least Titanica will come visit him in the hospital now.
 
2013-09-27 09:47:19 PM
Haha oh wow I hadn't even seen John Ann Arbor's comment.
 
2013-09-27 09:48:08 PM

badhatharry: http://www.chem.purdue.edu/chemsafety/equip/hffacts12.pdf


nobody wants to read that!
 
2013-09-27 09:49:12 PM
Nothing freaks you out more in freshman chem than grabbing a bottle of HCl and realizing the outside is wet.
 
2013-09-27 09:50:57 PM
I'll echo a few other comments here - at least it wasn't hydrofluoric. HCL is nasty and will fark you up, but HF is the stuff of true nightmares.
 
2013-09-27 09:52:21 PM

doglover: At least it wasn't HF or some other solution. HCl will burn you pretty bad, but it's natural. You make it in your stomach. HF isn't natural and while it won't eat dead meat like in Breaking Bad, it will kill you. It's contact poison and can give you a heart attack, or just go to town inside your body and do all kinds of nasty.


Came for that.

Safe handling procedures exist for a reason. Every rule exists because of some idiot.But it doesn't always take an idiot for a dangerous situation to occur.
 
2013-09-27 09:54:33 PM
The exact same thing happened to me many years ago when I worked in a university chem lab. I picked up a bottle of 12M HCl out of the fume hood to put it on the cart, and the bottom just fell right off. I sort of stood there in shock for a second and went for the emergency shower which was fortunately right next to me. I couldn't believe how much water came out of that thing. My boss figured out something was wrong as soon as she saw me walking down the hallway completely soaked.

The amazing thing was that none of my clothes were damaged, nor did I get any burns. There wasn't even significant vapor in that lab - the hoods sucked it all in and scrubbed it. I was very very lucky.

The dept. chair had all the lab section instructors go over how to treat the reagent bottles with respect to every class... we found a couple more with suspect cracks in the gen chem labs.
 
2013-09-27 09:56:52 PM
One time I added to much H2O2 to HCL and created a huge purple foaming monster.
 
2013-09-27 09:58:33 PM
I've been burned by trifluoroacetic acid and it's not fun.
 
2013-09-27 09:58:44 PM

tetsoushima: [blog.seattlepi.com image 568x426]

Why is the Seattle Fire Department using Instagram?


That's just the way things look in Seattle (and down south in Portland, too). It's because of the thick concentration of smug from hipsters and hippies that infest the area.
 
2013-09-27 09:59:20 PM
I was a short order cook at a bar during high school. One night the dishwasher decided to mix some dishwasher scale remover, ammonia and bleach to clean the floors. We had to evacuate the place.
 
2013-09-27 09:59:22 PM
Also, at least it wasn't Piranha Solution. Mother of god that stuff scares me. I really, REALLY do not like working with it *at all*.
 
2013-09-27 10:00:49 PM
we used to put muriatic acid in plastic 2 liter bottles, shove some aluminum foil in and and tighten the cap and put them in mailboxes.  good times.
 
2013-09-27 10:00:51 PM
My workplace has all sorts of stuff trying to kill me. The HCl and KOH are pretty tame but I don't trust the Nitric or the HF or that bastard Silane.
 
2013-09-27 10:03:12 PM

LesserEvil: tetsoushima: [blog.seattlepi.com image 568x426]

Why is the Seattle Fire Department using Instagram?

That's just the way things look in Seattle (and down south in Portland, too). It's because of the thick concentration of smug from hipsters and hippies that infest the area.


We can't all be so lucky as to live in Tulsa.
 
2013-09-27 10:05:56 PM

doglover: At least it wasn't HF or some other solution. HCl will burn you pretty bad, but it's natural. You make it in your stomach. HF isn't natural and while it won't eat dead meat like in Breaking Bad, it will kill you. It's contact poison and can give you a heart attack, or just go to town inside your body and do all kinds of nasty.


I initially read the headline as saying HF, and my heart sank. I would not wish HF exposure on the worst of my enemies.
 
2013-09-27 10:07:18 PM

tetsoushima: http://i.minus.com/ibazhDkbGDPb5P.gif  I thought this gif was relevant to the thread.  too large to fit on here, but relevant.


Worst
Chippendales
ever
 
2013-09-27 10:09:36 PM
So, if it fell off, where is it now?
 
2013-09-27 10:10:47 PM
Eh. I once had a liter of EtBr spill down the front of me. Got to go home early. We used to drop sulfuric acid on our palms to make thick calluses in college. We were freaks.
 
2013-09-27 10:11:19 PM
You want scary situations go in to any high school chem lab older than 10 years - there's about a 1% chance that someone has invested the time and money to have sufficient and proper storage for strong acids and bases.  If you're lucky they're in different cabinets - chances are the hinges have just about corroded away.
 
2013-09-27 10:11:41 PM
CSB: My wife dropped a 4-liter bottle (1 gallon) of fuming hydrochloric acid on her foot in lab -- I'm not sure how much was left in the bottle.  Thankfully she was right next to a sink and got her leg in the water before it could eat through her clothes, but the whole floor had to be evacuated and it ate through the vinyl flooring down to concrete.
 
2013-09-27 10:11:49 PM

Hollie Maea: We can't all be so lucky as to live in Tulsa.


Recently, at a party, someone mentioned Tulsa. I remembered the friend at my elbow had lived in Oklahoma in the 90s.

Me: "Hey, Jim here used to live in Tulsa. Right, Jim?"

Jim: "Oh my, no. We were in Norman. We DREAMED of living in Tulsa."

/CSB
 
2013-09-27 10:12:31 PM

tetsoushima: http://i.minus.com/ibazhDkbGDPb5P.gif  I thought this gif was relevant to the thread.  too large to fit on here, but relevant.


Emergency gay wet-undie contest?
 
2013-09-27 10:14:41 PM

Hollie Maea: My workplace has all sorts of stuff trying to kill me. The HCl and KOH are pretty tame but I don't trust the Nitric or the HF or that bastard Silane.


Google nickel tetracarbonyl.
 
2013-09-27 10:14:51 PM

RoyHobbs22: we used to put muriatic acid in plastic 2 liter bottles, shove some aluminum foil in and and tighten the cap and put them in mailboxes.  good times.


Ah, the old fast track to a hook for a hand.

whatshisname: I was a short order cook at a bar during high school. One night the dishwasher decided to mix some dishwasher scale remover, ammonia and bleach to clean the floors. We had to evacuate the place.


I erred in having a full container of Iron Out by the toilet when trying to remove some rust stains. Accidentally dumped the whole thing in the water. The fumes from the reaction were awful. Nearly choked me out trying to get out the bathroom.
 
2013-09-27 10:15:45 PM
CSB time

I spilled orange juice on my desk. It didn't do anything.
 
2013-09-27 10:17:16 PM
The Health and Safety guy at my school tells a story of someone who was lifting a winchester of concentrated sulphuric acid from a shelf above her head...and the bottom fell out.

He had to respond to it.

He didn't describe what he saw, only that he never wants to see it again.

I've seen what that stuff does to paper towel.
 
2013-09-27 10:18:44 PM
Let's see...  Breaking Bad?  Check.  Front fell off?  Came for this, check.  Joker?  Multiple versions, check and check.  Goggles do nothing?  Check.  Okay, I think we're done here.  Well done, everyone, thread over!
 
2013-09-27 10:19:06 PM
I once spilled vinegar in a cut.
 
2013-09-27 10:19:25 PM

jaytkay: Hollie Maea: We can't all be so lucky as to live in Tulsa.

Recently, at a party, someone mentioned Tulsa. I remembered the friend at my elbow had lived in Oklahoma in the 90s.

Me: "Hey, Jim here used to live in Tulsa. Right, Jim?"

Jim: "Oh my, no. We were in Norman. We DREAMED of living in Tulsa."

/CSB


NORMAN? We should be so lucky! We used to live in a rusty tin can in the middle of the road. One hour after sunset we would clean the road with our tongues, eat a handful of cold gravel and work 20 hours at the mill with no pay! When we got home our Dad would cut us up with a dull Ginsu knife and use us for cheese fondue...
 
2013-09-27 10:20:52 PM

jshine: Hollie Maea: My workplace has all sorts of stuff trying to kill me. The HCl and KOH are pretty tame but I don't trust the Nitric or the HF or that bastard Silane.

Google nickel tetracarbonyl.


Or dimethylmercury.
 
2013-09-27 10:22:30 PM
I spilled the beans once.  I got in trouble.
 
2013-09-27 10:23:46 PM
Hydrochloric acid solution? More like a hydrochloride acid problem, if you ask me.
 
2013-09-27 10:24:00 PM

Brainsick: jaytkay: Hollie Maea: We can't all be so lucky as to live in Tulsa.

Recently, at a party, someone mentioned Tulsa. I remembered the friend at my elbow had lived in Oklahoma in the 90s.

Me: "Hey, Jim here used to live in Tulsa. Right, Jim?"

Jim: "Oh my, no. We were in Norman. We DREAMED of living in Tulsa."

/CSB

NORMAN? We should be so lucky! We used to live in a rusty tin can in the middle of the road. One hour after sunset we would clean the road with our tongues, eat a handful of cold gravel and work 20 hours at the mill with no pay! When we got home our Dad would cut us up with a dull Ginsu knife and use us for cheese fondue...


Oh, you just had to brag about how good you had it!
 
2013-09-27 10:24:56 PM

Fubini: all metal surfaces (including his roommates) had become severely rusted.


Did he dorm with robots?
 
2013-09-27 10:25:06 PM

fusillade762: [tvmedia.ign.com image 468x270]

/oblig


That was hydrofluoric acid not chloric.

 And they screwed up the science as that acid eats your bones from the inside out and they showed bones as the only remains. HF is much more insidious than HCL.  It smells awful.  I'd take hydrochloric acid over hydrofluroic any day.

The more you know.
 
2013-09-27 10:25:54 PM

Mrbogey: RoyHobbs22: we used to put muriatic acid in plastic 2 liter bottles, shove some aluminum foil in and and tighten the cap and put them in mailboxes.  good times.

Ah, the old fast track to a hook for a hand.

whatshisname: I was a short order cook at a bar during high school. One night the dishwasher decided to mix some dishwasher scale remover, ammonia and bleach to clean the floors. We had to evacuate the place.

I erred in having a full container of Iron Out by the toilet when trying to remove some rust stains. Accidentally dumped the whole thing in the water. The fumes from the reaction were awful. Nearly choked  suffocatedme out trying to get out the bathroom.


/ftfy
//No, no, Jimmy, choking is something you do when you eat too fast. As I'm crushing Mister Moorin's windpipe with my watch chain, what I'm doing is actually referred to as strangling.
 
2013-09-27 10:25:57 PM

RoyHobbs22: we used to put muriatic acid in plastic 2 liter bottles, shove some aluminum foil in and and tighten the cap and put them in mailboxes.  good times.


Heh! When I was in High School we would do that on campus; drop them in a trash can, and walk away nonchalantly...allegedly, of course.

16 year old me: I'd like a bottle of muriatic acid please
Guy at hardware store: What for?
Me: Cleaning pool tiles
Guy: That'll be $5

/Good times...
//the boom was great but the resulting cloud of noxious gas was better
///we didn't have hallways, our classrooms were built with exterior (as in, to the outside) doors so no evacuation necessary
 
2013-09-27 10:26:20 PM

Brainsick: NORMAN? We should be so lucky! We used to live in a rusty tin can in the middle of the road.


lol bonus points for you, my friend who lived in Norman is English, hasn't lost his accent
 
2013-09-27 10:27:14 PM
Looks like we found one of Ripley's bad guys....
 
2013-09-27 10:27:47 PM

Felgraf: Also, at least it wasn't Piranha Solution. Mother of god that stuff scares me. I really, REALLY do not like working with it *at all*.


If you haven't already seen it, look up the Mythbusters episode where they use a bathtub full of Piranha solution to replicate a Breaking Bad myth.
 
2013-09-27 10:28:46 PM
2 liters of HCL gimme a break. What is this high school chemistry?
 
2013-09-27 10:29:32 PM
had something similar almost happen in the chemistry lab at my college. i was standing by the door and noticed a bunch of really tall beakers on a table right next to me. i glanced through the labels and noticed one of them was HCL. now i knew enough chemistry to generally not murder myself in the lab and even then i damn well knew what that is. and here this damn thing, with what looked like a few ounces of acid in it, sitting next to a door that 30 psychotic freshmen were about to mash through.

i pointed it out to the teacher, poor guy looked a little tense until he had it  all the way on the other side of the room. some one defiantly got chewed out over that one.
 
2013-09-27 10:29:45 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Meh, HCL is nasty.  HFL is worse.  It won't kill you for several agonizing weeks, as you watch your flesh slough off like rotted spam.

/former semiconductor manufacturing work slave who dealt with such nasties.
//Fark TI


THIS.

I work in a semicon fab and HF is one of the truly nasties.  I don't even care if it's the 2% stuff.

It's kinda like the ocean.  You don't know what the hell is going on underneath you (under your skin) if you come in contact with it.

Hexamethydisilazane smells like caustic bottled swamp ass infused with 30 year old swamp river acetone.  I thought, "what a unique smell....GAAAH!!!"
 
2013-09-27 10:29:45 PM

jaytkay: Brainsick: NORMAN? We should be so lucky! We used to live in a rusty tin can in the middle of the road.

lol bonus points for you, my friend who lived in Norman is English, hasn't lost his accent


Nice
 
2013-09-27 10:32:14 PM
And suddenly, acid wash makes a comeback with the hipsters.
 
2013-09-27 10:33:49 PM
It was a success. Bring him to debriefing.

www.lab-initio.com
 
2013-09-27 10:34:13 PM

doglover: At least it wasn't HF or some other solution. HCl will burn you pretty bad, but it's natural. You make it in your stomach. HF isn't natural and while it won't eat dead meat like in Breaking Bad, it will kill you. It's contact poison and can give you a heart attack, or just go to town inside your body and do all kinds of nasty.


"Natural" or not doesn't have anything to do with it (particularly since it is an arbitrary distinction). The reason HF is so dangerous is simply because of the electronegativity and size of fluoride.
 
2013-09-27 10:34:53 PM

Tchernobog: Ugh.  I work with Hydrofluoric acid daily...not good stuff.  Especially if you have any cuts/scrapes, anything.

/Use it to strip chrome/aluminum


Galvanizing plant here.  We work with - at most - a 15% HCL/H2O solution and if you have a cut you know it quickly.  What's worse is the caustic acid we use as a first step - a 50% solution accidentally sprayed on me a couple years ago and burned one leg enough that I ended up at the doctors.  Felt like wasp stings until I got it hosed off.
 
2013-09-27 10:34:57 PM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: Hexamethydisilazane smells like caustic bottled swamp ass infused with 30 year old swamp river acetone.  I thought, "what a unique smell....GAAAH!!!"


If you smell it it is already far too late....just kidding.  Your kids will turn out just fine.
 
2013-09-27 10:37:26 PM
OK OK!

I haven't read the thread but...how many semicon fab workers do we have here?  How many have seen the emergency showers being used? I'd like my home shower to put out that volume of water in 30 seconds.  I wouldn't be late for work so much.

OK I will read the thread.

Chem-nerds! GOOOOO!!!!
 
2013-09-27 10:37:46 PM

Ivo Shandor: Felgraf: Also, at least it wasn't Piranha Solution. Mother of god that stuff scares me. I really, REALLY do not like working with it *at all*.

If you haven't already seen it, look up the Mythbusters episode where they use a bathtub full of Piranha solution to replicate a Breaking Bad myth.


It's more the fact that if there's organic residue in the beaker that you don't know about, it can farking *explode* (especially if there's, say, acetone).

That's because the reaction actually creates free elemental oxygen.
 
2013-09-27 10:42:00 PM

Felgraf: Also, at least it wasn't Piranha Solution. Mother of god that stuff scares me. I really, REALLY do not like working with it *at all*.


Looks at what Piranha Solution is....

Ummm yeah, I don't wanna be within 1000 feet of that stuff either.
 
2013-09-27 10:42:27 PM
I have been waiting for "ze goggles, zey do nozzing, but I am disappoint...
 
2013-09-27 10:43:45 PM

berylman: White_Scarf_Syndrome: Hexamethydisilazane smells like caustic bottled swamp ass infused with 30 year old swamp river acetone.  I thought, "what a unique smell....GAAAH!!!"

If you smell it it is already far too late....just kidding.  Your kids will turn out just fine.


What's ONE teensy whiff?

-Goes to check the MSDS....
 
2013-09-27 10:44:37 PM
I am reminded of a poem from a college chemistry lab course manual:

Little Timmy took a drink
He lived to drink no more
For what he thought was H2O
Was H2SO4
 
2013-09-27 10:44:43 PM
I worked with HF and piranha on a daily basis in grad school. Respect it, be careful, but fear will cause mistakes. Of course, being a complete dumbass will cause mistakes too, like the grad student who got caught stirring HF with a gloved finger. He was banned from the lab for a couple of weeks while he went through safety training about ten more times.
 
2013-09-27 10:46:10 PM

jshine: nickel tetracarbonyl


Ummm crap.
 
2013-09-27 10:46:52 PM

Ivo Shandor: a bathtub full of Piranha solution


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-27 10:48:07 PM
In many chem labs, HCl is one of the least dangerous things you work with.

I do 50% HF regularly (digestion for elemental analysis), piranha occasionally, have a synthesis with dimethyl sulfate coming up where I'll have to warn coworkers to run the fark away and pull the fire alarm if they see me lying on the floor, because we don't need additional casualties form someone coming into a room where we have a release.
 
2013-09-27 10:48:13 PM

doglover: Fubini: CST

There was a certain midwest engineering college that gave all the incoming freshman the following assignment:

Make a chemically powered model car

There were quite a few well meaning but mediocre students who settled for simple (safe) chemical reactions, such as combining vinegar and baking soda to make water and CO2. Some others were a little more adventurous.

One young student, not really knowing chemistry (but figuring he did), just walked down to the chemical storeroom and asked for "strong hydrochloric acid". The stockroom guy, apparently devoid of sense, looked around and found an ancient bottle of 8 molar HCL. Figuring that the kid knew what he was asking for, handed over the acid.

The wayward freshman proceeded with the bottle back to his dorm room to experiment. This is where things get a little fuzzy, but it suffices to say that in the course of said activity his bottle shattered. Three floors of the dorm were evacuated for several hours while the gasses vented. The wayward freshman was first hosed down by the school and then had to stand outside at some length with no pants on. It's rumored that when he returned to his room his keyboard had melted and fused onto his desk, and that all metal surfaces (including his roommates) had become severely rusted.

Following this incident the chemical stockroom implemented stricter controls over who was allowed access to ancient bottles of extremely strong acids.

In the Penn State dorm rules, there's one addendum that obviously has a backstory. Sadly, it predated the 2004 class sufficiently that the RA who showed me was unawares of the deets.

Anyway, the rule is the last rule on appropriate hallway use. It reads something like "No go-karts, rocket powered cars, or similar vehicles are permitted to be ridden in the hallways."

I mean, really. That sounds like someone had a party.


Go-karts are particularly attractive to children. Surprised they didn't encourage that activity.
 
2013-09-27 10:48:49 PM

tetsoushima: [blog.seattlepi.com image 568x426]

Why is the Seattle Fire Department using Instagram?


Why not? I know exactly where they are and where the hell to stay away from.

/thanks, internet!
 
2013-09-27 10:49:40 PM

jshine: jshine: Hollie Maea: My workplace has all sorts of stuff trying to kill me. The HCl and KOH are pretty tame but I don't trust the Nitric or the HF or that bastard Silane.

Google nickel tetracarbonyl.

Or dimethylmercury.


Wow, just a few drops kills.  Ummmm, wow.
 
2013-09-27 10:50:09 PM
Son, that's not what knocking the bottom of it means.
 
2013-09-27 10:50:31 PM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: OK OK!

I haven't read the thread but...how many semicon fab workers do we have here?  How many have seen the emergency showers being used? I'd like my home shower to put out that volume of water in 30 seconds.  I wouldn't be late for work so much.

OK I will read the thread.

Chem-nerds! GOOOOO!!!!


Amusingly, I am actually a physicist.

But I'm doing my grad degree in nanophysics, so about half of what I do is chemistry (or, as I call it, magic.)
/Alternatively, I call it "you farking bastards, you left crucial steps out of your paper! WHYU DO THAT"
 
2013-09-27 10:52:07 PM
When I was a tween I figured out chlorine and sprite made amazing reactions. Let's just say that my friend and I caused a lot of trouble when we figured out that the reaction was even better inside a 2 litter bottle
 
2013-09-27 10:56:38 PM

doglover: HF isn't natural


Isn't everything, when you get down to at the molecular level, organic?

/serious question
 
2013-09-27 10:57:25 PM
Every chemist has a great store of tales like this.  I managed to open a stuck jar of KOH pellets once and ended up flinging them all over the place.  I got most of them but missed two- one ate a hole in my pocket, the other I found about ten minutes later when I noticed my hair felt funny.  Dissolved it all very nicely down to a bald spot.

I also managed to turn my arm orange when I splashed fuming nitric all over it while nitrating cotton balls,  (Damn ice bath cubes locked up when I was trying to move the flask)

Still, nowhere near as bad as walking past an organic lab and smelling new mown hay.   Umm, guys, you might want to evacuate pronto...
 
2013-09-27 10:58:12 PM

thisisyourbrainonFark: doglover: HF isn't natural

Isn't everything, when you get down to at the molecular level, organic?

/serious question


Most things labelled organic have carbon in them.

And this thread has totally inspired me to go back to school to learn some chemistry. I want to learn to read a molecule diagram and go "oh crap" or giggle because everyone is freaking out over water.
 
2013-09-27 11:00:52 PM
Long time lab tech....worked with lots of strong acids....perchloric and HF demanded the most respect.....only one burn ever....pinhole leak in glove+glacial acetic acid=serious fu*king nasty pain!....lost outer layer of skin off most of my index finger....think tender pink stuff after you pop a blister.....

/don't really miss the lab....
//except making potassium triiodide
 
2013-09-27 11:04:26 PM

Rwa2play: Felgraf: Also, at least it wasn't Piranha Solution. Mother of god that stuff scares me. I really, REALLY do not like working with it *at all*.

Looks at what Piranha Solution is....

Ummm yeah, I don't wanna be within 1000 feet of that stuff either.


No kidding.  I know nothing about organic chemistry, so Ive been reading names, and spending time at Wikipedia.  Holy crap, most of this stuff is nasty!  I swear I read one that said "...is so dangerous it will sneak out of the lab, take the #12 bus, and kill you and your family at home."  Glad I'm in software.
 
2013-09-27 11:12:56 PM

Rwa2play: jshine: jshine: Hollie Maea: My workplace has all sorts of stuff trying to kill me. The HCl and KOH are pretty tame but I don't trust the Nitric or the HF or that bastard Silane.

Google nickel tetracarbonyl.

Or dimethylmercury.

Wow, just a few drops kills.  Ummmm, wow.


Tell me again why folks bother with sarin gas?
 
2013-09-27 11:13:00 PM

Felgraf: White_Scarf_Syndrome: OK OK!

I haven't read the thread but...how many semicon fab workers do we have here?  How many have seen the emergency showers being used? I'd like my home shower to put out that volume of water in 30 seconds.  I wouldn't be late for work so much.

OK I will read the thread.

Chem-nerds! GOOOOO!!!!

Amusingly, I am actually a physicist.

But I'm doing my grad degree in nanophysics, so about half of what I do is chemistry (or, as I call it, magic.)
/Alternatively, I call it "you farking bastards, you left crucial steps out of your paper! WHYU DO THAT"


Probably because if only you were a chemist, it would have been really f***in' obvious that you needed to do (whatever it was).
 
2013-09-27 11:13:56 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: Every chemist has a great store of tales like this.  I managed to open a stuck jar of KOH pellets once and ended up flinging them all over the place.  I got most of them but missed two- one ate a hole in my pocket, the other I found about ten minutes later when I noticed my hair felt funny.  Dissolved it all very nicely down to a bald spot.

I also managed to turn my arm orange when I splashed fuming nitric all over it while nitrating cotton balls,  (Damn ice bath cubes locked up when I was trying to move the flask)

Still, nowhere near as bad as walking past an organic lab and smelling new mown hay.   Umm, guys, you might want to evacuate pronto...


Well...don't leave us hanging! What was it?

/never took organic chem
 
2013-09-27 11:14:19 PM
So you're saying I shouldn't have ordered a bunch of 2 liter bottles of concentrated acids?

I've been reading "Ignition!' in fits and spurts. It's basically rocket fuel chemistry for dummies. I have a new-found respect for all the acids sitting in my corrosives cabinet.
 
2013-09-27 11:14:44 PM

Peki: And this thread has totally inspired me to go back to school to learn some chemistry. I want to learn to read a molecule diagram and go "oh crap" or giggle because everyone is freaking out over water.


Good for you, but just a warning: the biatch of chemistry is that (unlike biology or physics) it takes a long time to get to the really good stuff.  You might look for the condensed/combo classes they often teach for nurses or bio majors, otherwise it's two FULL years before you can even start thinking about things like biochemistry.  I'm sure there are MOOCs that do the condensed thing, too.  Not a good enough foundation if you're going to be a physical scientist or go to med school, but more than fine for brain expansion.

Anyway, that's my 2c FWIW.

Lt. Cheese Weasel: HCL is nasty.  HFL is worse.


Chemistry FAIL:  HCl, HF. Capitalization matters.
 
2013-09-27 11:15:30 PM

KumquatMay: I have been waiting for "ze goggles, zey do nozzing, but I am disappoint...


Pssst. Check the 4th post.
 
2013-09-27 11:16:24 PM
Okay guys, freak me out here.

 It's been a looong time since I took chem. I called it quits in the lab as a job when I realized I was too lazy to keep up proper safety in the lab on a day-in-day-out basis (forgetting gloves, goggles, periodically, that sort of thing.) Other than getting a few snoot fulls of HCl, never ran into any truly awful stuff that I recall.

 What does HF do to you?
 
2013-09-27 11:20:23 PM

Bacontastesgood: Peki: And this thread has totally inspired me to go back to school to learn some chemistry. I want to learn to read a molecule diagram and go "oh crap" or giggle because everyone is freaking out over water.

Good for you, but just a warning: the biatch of chemistry is that (unlike biology or physics) it takes a long time to get to the really good stuff.  You might look for the condensed/combo classes they often teach for nurses or bio majors, otherwise it's two FULL years before you can even start thinking about things like biochemistry.  I'm sure there are MOOCs that do the condensed thing, too.  Not a good enough foundation if you're going to be a physical scientist or go to med school, but more than fine for brain expansion.

Anyway, that's my 2c FWIW.

Lt. Cheese Weasel: HCL is nasty.  HFL is worse.

Chemistry FAIL:  HCl, HF. Capitalization matters.


You knew what I meant, acidgrammarnazi.
 
2013-09-27 11:20:40 PM

fusillade762: [tvmedia.ign.com image 468x270]

/oblig


Done in one.  In fine fashion.
 
2013-09-27 11:20:54 PM

blue_2501: Rwa2play: jshine: jshine: Hollie Maea: My workplace has all sorts of stuff trying to kill me. The HCl and KOH are pretty tame but I don't trust the Nitric or the HF or that bastard Silane.

Google nickel tetracarbonyl.

Or dimethylmercury.

Wow, just a few drops kills.  Ummmm, wow.

Tell me again why folks bother with sarin gas?



Sarin is still more toxic, but importantly, it is not persistent.  If you sprayed dimethylmercury on your enemy, the land would remain toxic for a long time.  It would be like the Romans salting the fields of their enemies.  Sarin kills and is then gone very quickly, so you don't kill your own troops too.  Also, sarin (an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor) poisoning is somewhat easier to treat than heavy metal poisoning if you do have an "oops" moment...
 
2013-09-27 11:21:00 PM

Mr_Moto: Probably because if only you were a chemist, it would have been really f***in' obvious that you needed to do (whatever it was).


It's actually revenge for physicists leaving major steps in derivations out of their papers, and sometimes not fixing mistakes in the symbols or whatever.

Reminds me of a supposedly true story - the people who came up with a high temperature superconductor (YBCO, where the Y=yttrium) put it in the paper being peer reviewed as Yb = Ytterbium.  A deliberate "mistake" to prevent some other lab copying. The world market price for Ytterbium suddenly shot up.  The authors must have been laughing their asses off thinking of all the people trying to synthesize a material with the wrong element.

I'll have to go look that up and see if it's true.
 
2013-09-27 11:23:17 PM

jshine: blue_2501: Rwa2play: jshine: jshine: Hollie Maea: My workplace has all sorts of stuff trying to kill me. The HCl and KOH are pretty tame but I don't trust the Nitric or the HF or that bastard Silane.

Google nickel tetracarbonyl.

Or dimethylmercury.

Wow, just a few drops kills.  Ummmm, wow.

Tell me again why folks bother with sarin gas?


Sarin is still more toxic, but importantly, it is not persistent.  If you sprayed dimethylmercury on your enemy, the land would remain toxic for a long time.  It would be like the Romans salting the fields of their enemies.  Sarin kills and is then gone very quickly, so you don't kill your own troops too.  Also, sarin (an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor) poisoning is somewhat easier to treat than heavy metal poisoning if you do have an "oops" moment...



Also, sarin kills quickly, which probably is pretty important for a weapon.  At low doses, dimethylmercury could take months.
 
2013-09-27 11:24:07 PM

Hack Patooey: Rwa2play: Felgraf: Also, at least it wasn't Piranha Solution. Mother of god that stuff scares me. I really, REALLY do not like working with it *at all*.

Looks at what Piranha Solution is....

Ummm yeah, I don't wanna be within 1000 feet of that stuff either.

No kidding.  I know nothing about organic chemistry, so Ive been reading names, and spending time at Wikipedia.  Holy crap, most of this stuff is nasty!  I swear I read one that said "...is so dangerous it will sneak out of the lab, take the #12 bus, and kill you and your family at home."  Glad I'm in software.


Dimethylmercury is the most frightening; a substance so toxic its use has been discontinued because getting a few drops on you will kill you if you're not treated in time.
 
2013-09-27 11:25:36 PM

New Age Redneck: Long time lab tech....worked with lots of strong acids....perchloric and HF demanded the most respect.....only one burn ever....pinhole leak in glove+glacial acetic acid=serious fu*king nasty pain!....lost outer layer of skin off most of my index finger....think tender pink stuff after you pop a blister.....

/don't really miss the lab....
//except making potassium triiodide


In grad school I had to highly polish titanium to reveal the microstructure which requires ~2% HF (conc.), ~2% nitric acid (conc.) with the balance water. I was concerned enough that I bought the antidote cream in case of getting HF on the skin. I also electropolished the titanium for microscope work which required a solution containing perchloric acid. I got scared because it can be explosive and you are not supposed to let it get in contact with organics, like normal paper towels, or it could combust. I tried to start a mini fire with paper towels, just to see how sensitive it was, but I failed. The funny thing I was using a chemical hood where the number one warning was "do not use perchloric acid with this hood." Good times. I never injured myself though.
 
2013-09-27 11:26:58 PM

Bacontastesgood: Mr_Moto: Probably because if only you were a chemist, it would have been really f***in' obvious that you needed to do (whatever it was).

It's actually revenge for physicists leaving major steps in derivations out of their papers, and sometimes not fixing mistakes in the symbols or whatever.

Reminds me of a supposedly true story - the people who came up with a high temperature superconductor (YBCO, where the Y=yttrium) put it in the paper being peer reviewed as Yb = Ytterbium.  A deliberate "mistake" to prevent some other lab copying. The world market price for Ytterbium suddenly shot up.  The authors must have been laughing their asses off thinking of all the people trying to synthesize a material with the wrong element.

I'll have to go look that up and see if it's true.


Yeah, there are a lot of chemistry papers with "mistakes" in them too.  Or, even more common, they "forgot" to include something.

I do physical chemistry, so I get the worst of both worlds
 
2013-09-27 11:28:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnTYUBTe-3o

MASSIVE HF release in Korea.

Hey Ree!

Yeah!?

It's almost lunchtime, screw the PPE.  Righty tighty and all that.  It's just HF.  Whatever.

OK Ree!

Yes these two died.  No it's not graphic, just an example of sheer idiocy.
 
2013-09-27 11:28:29 PM

Hack Patooey: Rwa2play: Felgraf: Also, at least it wasn't Piranha Solution. Mother of god that stuff scares me. I really, REALLY do not like working with it *at all*.

Looks at what Piranha Solution is....

Ummm yeah, I don't wanna be within 1000 feet of that stuff either.

No kidding.  I know nothing about organic chemistry, so Ive been reading names, and spending time at Wikipedia.  Holy crap, most of this stuff is nasty!  I swear I read one that said "...is so dangerous it will sneak out of the lab, take the #12 bus, and kill you and your family at home."  Glad I'm in software.


Derek Lowe's "Things I Won't Work With" is my go-to jumping-off place for stuff like this. We've got chlorine triflouride, "during World War II, the Germans were very interested in using it in self-igniting flamethrowers, but found it too nasty to work with." The classic dioxygen difluoride, "often referred to in the literature by its evocative formula of FOOF." If 8 nitrogens in a row was too stable, here's ten nitrogens in a row, and if ten's not enough, we can go back to Derek's blog for N-amino azidotetrazole, "two carbons, fourteen nitrogens, and no hydrogens at all, a formula that even Klapötke himself, who clearly has refined sensibilities when it comes to hellishly unstable chemicals, calls "exciting". Trust me, you don't want to be around when someone who works with azidotetrazoles comes across something "exciting"..."
 
2013-09-27 11:29:26 PM

cuzsis: Okay guys, freak me out here.

 It's been a looong time since I took chem. I called it quits in the lab as a job when I realized I was too lazy to keep up proper safety in the lab on a day-in-day-out basis (forgetting gloves, goggles, periodically, that sort of thing.) Other than getting a few snoot fulls of HCl, never ran into any truly awful stuff that I recall.

 What does HF do to you?


Makes flesh necrotic, leaches the calcium from your bones and replaces it with fluorine (good luck ever getting THAT out, if you live long enough for it to be a problem), and the best part is that it kills your nerve endings so you don't even feel the burn until it's far too late to do anything about it.

IIRC, three square inches of skin contact is fatal.
 
2013-09-27 11:30:02 PM

cuzsis: What does HF do to you?


It's a weak acid in chemical terms, so it doesn't do the normal 'acid' thing. However it does diffuse through your skin quite easily, and once it's inside your body the fluoride ion binds very strongly to any calcium ions it can find. Since your body uses those calcium ions for other purposes such as staying alive or holding your bones together, this leads to adverse consequences (sometimes hours after the exposure).
 
2013-09-27 11:31:39 PM
http://www.csb.gov/

Great site for explanations and computer reenacmtents of pretty bad incidents.
 
2013-09-27 11:33:38 PM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: http://www.csb.gov/

Great site for explanations and computer reenacmtents of pretty bad incidents.


I parse that URL as "Cool Story, Bro dot gov"
 
2013-09-27 11:34:53 PM

Ivo Shandor: cuzsis: What does HF do to you?

It's a weak acid in chemical terms, so it doesn't do the normal 'acid' thing. However it does diffuse through your skin quite easily, and once it's inside your body the fluoride ion binds very strongly to any calcium ions it can find. Since your body uses those calcium ions for other purposes such as staying alive or holding your bones together, this leads to adverse consequences (sometimes hours after the exposure).


Agonizing pain due to calcium fluoride crystals forming in your blood, nasty disfiguration of the tissue where the exposure occurred, or good old-fashioned cardiac arrest (due to a depletion of calcium).  Good times...
 
2013-09-27 11:35:11 PM
And for the curious, here is the MSDS for Honeywells batch of HF.  I believe they are the worlds largest supplier.  A nice looking PDF in my opinion.  A lot of MSDS sheets are still look like they were typed on a typerwriter.

Pay attention to the delayed effects portion.

http://www51.honeywell.com/sm/hfacid/common/documents/AHF_MSDS.pdf

Or you could just GIS HF exposures, but I am done with that for a while after all the Krokodil threads.

Enjoy, and goodnight.
 
2013-09-27 11:35:15 PM

cuzsis: Okay guys, freak me out here.

 It's been a looong time since I took chem. I called it quits in the lab as a job when I realized I was too lazy to keep up proper safety in the lab on a day-in-day-out basis (forgetting gloves, goggles, periodically, that sort of thing.) Other than getting a few snoot fulls of HCl, never ran into any truly awful stuff that I recall.

 What does HF do to you?


I got out of the Chem business years (or likely, decades) before you left your lab job, so I'm going from a very hazy memory, but I seem to recall that in a lab, it was more dangerous as a calcium-reactive poison than for the properties you'd typically expect from a strong acid. I changed majors 2 years into ChemE because I found it to be obnoxiously boring and tedious, and probably because I didn't pay as much attention as I should have.
 
2013-09-27 11:36:55 PM

cuzsis: What does HF do to you?


Penetrates your skin easily, which you don't feel so much, and attacks your bones, which you do.  If your bones start to dissolve, the treatment is injection of calcium gluconate deep under the skin, next to the bone.  It is said to be intensely painful.

There are bio agents that are much worse tho.  One woman I dated was working with a digest enzyme that would dissolve flesh like gasoline dissolves styrofoam.  Getting that on your skin would be worse than any acid.
 
2013-09-27 11:37:07 PM

Mr_Moto: Probably because if only you were a chemist, it would have been really f***in' obvious that you needed to do (whatever it was).


Probably. I know at least one reaction a collaborator was doing wasn't working. They contacted the researcher.
"Oh! The entire reaction has to be done under nitrogen." "... At no point does your paper even suggest this." "Well, yeah, it's implied in the field we published in!" (And that collaborator *was* a chemist...)


Ivo Shandor: cuzsis: What does HF do to you?

It's a weak acid in chemical terms, so it doesn't do the normal 'acid' thing. However it does diffuse through your skin quite easily, and once it's inside your body the fluoride ion binds very strongly to any calcium ions it can find. Since your body uses those calcium ions for other purposes such as staying alive or holding your bones together, this leads to adverse consequences (sometimes hours after the exposure).


Don't forget the bonus fun points of odorless and colorless, so it *looks* like it's just water!
 
2013-09-27 11:37:10 PM
Another reason why HF sucks so bad, is because they will not give you pain meds.  Medics need to be able to have you tell them where it hurts so they can do their job accordingly.  This stuff ain't no Robocop acid.
 
2013-09-27 11:37:10 PM
Or, apparently, other people who know more about it can answer that ahead of me and make me look like I only took 2 years of Chem E.
 
2013-09-27 11:38:05 PM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: http://www.csb.gov/

Great site for explanations and computer reenacmtents of pretty bad incidents.


CSB!
 
2013-09-27 11:41:11 PM

Bacontastesgood: Mr_Moto: Probably because if only you were a chemist, it would have been really f***in' obvious that you needed to do (whatever it was).

It's actually revenge for physicists leaving major steps in derivations out of their papers, and sometimes not fixing mistakes in the symbols or whatever.

Reminds me of a supposedly true story - the people who came up with a high temperature superconductor (YBCO, where the Y=yttrium) put it in the paper being peer reviewed as Yb = Ytterbium.  A deliberate "mistake" to prevent some other lab copying. The world market price for Ytterbium suddenly shot up.  The authors must have been laughing their asses off thinking of all the people trying to synthesize a material with the wrong element.

I'll have to go look that up and see if it's true.


Could be true, though the physicist in me is skeptical, if only because that's a good way to get your paper shot down by follow ups.  However, that may just be my personal experience/anecdotes speaking-Our group actually got a negative result published-apparently we did a *very* thorough job of going "uuuuuuhhhh no." to another group's work. It may have helped that a third group *also* got negative results.

To be fair, given that this is nanophysics, the first group may very well have gotten interesting results, but left out some minor thing that was, nevertheless, important to the reaction (I swear to god, it sometimes feels like the phase of the goddamn MOON changes these things. I *know* the humidity can drastically alter some of the synthesis...)
 
2013-09-27 11:42:00 PM

Mr_Moto: I do physical chemistry, so I get the worst of both worlds


Yeah, I did Pchem and then moved to materials, now doing some bio related work.  My career goal is to keep learning new things so I suck equally at all of them.
 
2013-09-27 11:42:42 PM
man! i hate the seahawks! i'm a rams fan.

/sorry, what were we talking about?
 
2013-09-27 11:44:42 PM

Bacontastesgood: cuzsis: What does HF do to you?

Penetrates your skin easily, which you don't feel so much, and attacks your bones, which you do.  If your bones start to dissolve, the treatment is injection of calcium gluconate deep under the skin, next to the bone.  It is said to be intensely painful.

There are bio agents that are much worse tho.  One woman I dated was working with a digest enzyme that would dissolve flesh like gasoline dissolves styrofoam.  Getting that on your skin would be worse than any acid.


no matter what, do whatever she wants!
 
2013-09-27 11:46:24 PM
yes, HF exposure is not dramatic, but rarely turns out well.  You adsorb it too quickly for showers and that other crap to help much.  You just sort of fall apart and die.  Parts of the process hurt.  Your don't "burn" like other acids. It messes up nerve signals so you don't get the sizzle and Oh God shiat phase.  You get all the other parts though.

I don't know if there is a treatment.  amputation?
 
2013-09-27 11:46:40 PM

Peki: thisisyourbrainonFark: doglover: HF isn't natural

Isn't everything, when you get down to at the molecular level, organic?

/serious question

Most things labelled organic have carbon in them.

And this thread has totally inspired me to go back to school to learn some chemistry. I want to learn to read a molecule diagram and go "oh crap" or giggle because everyone is freaking out over water.


Little Johnny was a chemist

Little Johnny is no more

For what he thought was H2O

Was H2SO4

Also...

thebigbangtheoryfansite.com
 
2013-09-27 11:46:42 PM

Dimensio: [www.comicbookmovie.com image 245x316]

The worker suffered some facial scarring, but is expected to make a full recovery.


"That wasn't easy to get over, and don't think that I didn't try."
 
2013-09-27 11:47:37 PM
I'm not sure if HF is odorless.  I found it odd that we don't have to wear breathing air for drum changeouts.  Maybe the company we purchase from adds something to make it smell, but I swear the stuff has a smell.  I dunno.  Lots of companies make these chemicals.
 
2013-09-27 11:48:26 PM

Felgraf: Could be true, though the physicist in me is skeptical, if only because that's a good way to get your paper shot down by follow ups.


Well, i can't find confirmation, so it could be bull, but the part of the story I forgot above is that they changed Yb to Y in the page proofs.  So the publication is correct as printed.  No one was supposed to do lab work to review the paper, just accept that what they were saying was true.   I know someone at U of H who knows Prof Chu, they could ask, but not sure if he's around or would admit to such a thing.  No clue who the reviewers were either.  This was a grapevine thing I heard a couple of years after.

When I did some big industry work they made us be all "The alloy was AxByCz" when presenting things.  I hated it.  Just tell me I can't present if your precious secret can't be told.
 
2013-09-27 11:52:24 PM

Felgraf: Mr_Moto: Probably because if only you were a chemist, it would have been really f***in' obvious that you needed to do (whatever it was).

Probably. I know at least one reaction a collaborator was doing wasn't working. They contacted the researcher.
"Oh! The entire reaction has to be done under nitrogen." "... At no point does your paper even suggest this." "Well, yeah, it's implied in the field we published in!" (And that collaborator *was* a chemist...)


Yeah, air-sensitive is in fact a big one that (the right type of) chemist would understand implicitly.  For example, any phosphorus in an oxidation state lower than +5 is probably not air-stable (although there are some exceptions), and so many organometallic compounds are air-sensitive, that if you are doing organometallics and you aren't sure, it's probably better to assume it is not air-stable.

Of course, even a chemist might not know this, depending on whether they are an inorganic chemist and whether they ever socialized with people outside their own research group in grad school.
 
2013-09-27 11:56:58 PM

tetsoushima: [blog.seattlepi.com image 568x426]

Why is the Seattle Fire Department using Instagram?


1st degree burns, 3rd degree lulz.

Acid. Not even once!
 
2013-09-27 11:58:33 PM

Bacontastesgood: Peki: And this thread has totally inspired me to go back to school to learn some chemistry. I want to learn to read a molecule diagram and go "oh crap" or giggle because everyone is freaking out over water.

Good for you, but just a warning: the biatch of chemistry is that (unlike biology or physics) it takes a long time to get to the really good stuff.  You might look for the condensed/combo classes they often teach for nurses or bio majors, otherwise it's two FULL years before you can even start thinking about things like biochemistry.  I'm sure there are MOOCs that do the condensed thing, too.  Not a good enough foundation if you're going to be a physical scientist or go to med school, but more than fine for brain expansion.

Anyway, that's my 2c FWIW.


Oh, I don't care about the time it would take, and career isn't a concern. If I had the money I'd spend the rest of my life in school.
 
2013-09-27 11:59:01 PM
Johnny was a chemist.
But Johnny is no more.
What Johnny thought was H2O,
was H2SO4.
 
2013-09-28 12:07:37 AM

illannoyin: Peki: thisisyourbrainonFark: doglover: HF isn't natural

Isn't everything, when you get down to at the molecular level, organic?

/serious question

Most things labelled organic have carbon in them.

And this thread has totally inspired me to go back to school to learn some chemistry. I want to learn to read a molecule diagram and go "oh crap" or giggle because everyone is freaking out over water.

Little Johnny was a chemist

Little Johnny is no more

For what he thought was H2O

Was H2SO4

Also...

[thebigbangtheoryfansite.com image 500x485]


I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.
 
2013-09-28 12:09:47 AM
Not one of you? No Fight Club pic?  I am disappoint    content6.flixster.com
 
2013-09-28 12:10:43 AM

Peki: I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.


does what?
 
2013-09-28 12:10:52 AM

Peki: I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.


Canned laughter and ancient jokes? What's not to like?
 
2013-09-28 12:17:27 AM

Thresher: Not one of you? No Fight Club pic?  I am disappoint    [content6.flixster.com image 350x235]


That's just sodium hydroxide -- weak tea.
 
2013-09-28 12:23:26 AM
One of our idiots in the lab decided he was going to sneak some out of the plant because he figured it would clear a blocked drain at home.  He put it in a plastic bottle, put the bottle in his lunch box and set it on the desk in hi office.  He came back a few minutes later and the acid had eaten all through his lunch box, across the top, peeled paint off the desk and he freaked.  He just new he was going to get fired.  I'm not sure what he told them happened.  Hell, it even ate some finish off of the brand new clay tile in the lab.  He's damn lucky he didn't get some on his leg.  I'm still not sure what it would have done to the plumbing in his house.
 
2013-09-28 12:23:35 AM

Felgraf: Probably. I know at least one reaction a collaborator was doing wasn't working. They contacted the researcher.
"Oh! The entire reaction has to be done under nitrogen." "... At no point does your paper even suggest this." "Well, yeah, it's implied in the field we published in!" (And that collaborator *was* a chemist...)


That field sucks.  I'm an inorganic chemist, and every paper in my field has a sentence at the beginning of the experimental saying "All reactions were done under air-free conditions unless otherwise indicated."  Because anal-retentive pedantry is what science is all about.
 
2013-09-28 12:27:14 AM

cuzsis: Well...don't leave us hanging! What was it?


Not a chemist, but if I recall, many cyanide compounds have the smell of freshly cut grass. (as it turns out, there's cyanide in your grass)
 
2013-09-28 12:27:27 AM
My CSB time:

I work at a major aerospace manufacturer that uses full immersion chem lines that feature, among others, hydrochloric and hydroflouric acids.  I was fortunate to never witness one, but I understand that a fissure in a tank line or a spill can produce a colorful cloud-o-death.  My father-in-law that's been a manufacturing engineer there for some 30 years told me he once saw a man who didn't evacuate quickly enough and was exposed to a cloud from an acid spill.  He said the guy started down the stairs, collapsed, and fell the remaining steps.  When they were finally able to get to him, the dude was basically goo; like all the bones had been removed from his body.

/So glad I no longer work in a building with a chem line, never felt comfortable working around them.
 
2013-09-28 12:30:11 AM
Since we have all the chem nerds here, any HPLC (SEC, RP), LC-MS guys around?  Could use someone to turn to for method development help.
 
2013-09-28 12:43:00 AM
i've handled kryptonite.

it hurts.
 
2013-09-28 12:43:19 AM

cuzsis: Well...don't leave us hanging! What was it

 Smells like new-mown hay?  You accidentally sarin.
 
2013-09-28 12:49:42 AM

Peki: I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.


This

Hell, Bones has better 'geek' humor and Futurama is built on it
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
If you're old enough, this one is hilarious
 
2013-09-28 12:52:56 AM

WraithSama: My CSB time:

I work at a major aerospace manufacturer that uses full immersion chem lines that feature, among others, hydrochloric and hydroflouric acids.  I was fortunate to never witness one, but I understand that a fissure in a tank line or a spill can produce a colorful cloud-o-death.  My father-in-law that's been a manufacturing engineer there for some 30 years told me he once saw a man who didn't evacuate quickly enough and was exposed to a cloud from an acid spill.  He said the guy started down the stairs, collapsed, and fell the remaining steps.  When they were finally able to get to him, the dude was basically goo; like all the bones had been removed from his body.

/So glad I no longer work in a building with a chem line, never felt comfortable working around them.


I worked in a chemical factory that made products for perfume.  You had to wear respirators constanly because they told me, "The moment you can smell it, you're a dead man."  I work there no more, thankfully.
 
2013-09-28 12:55:12 AM

basemetal: [www.thomassci.com image 500x500]


farking this.  What an idiot.
 
2013-09-28 12:57:30 AM
lol

i don't normally watch network television but some family encouraged me to watch it.

i immediately pointed out that sheldon was gay, not geeky.

(not that there's anything wrong with that)

they didn't understand.

they do now, five or six years later.

BUT, i enjoy the show,
 
2013-09-28 01:00:04 AM
Came for Things I Won't Work With, leaving happy.
 
2013-09-28 01:00:44 AM

Brainsick: Peki: I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.

This

Hell, Bones has better 'geek' humor and Futurama is built on it
[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 203x339]
If you're old enough, this one is hilarious


I lol'd. (And know it well enough that I forget what they were actually called sometimes)

I can't talk about other shows though; I don't have a TV. Only caught BBT because in-laws were watching it.
 
2013-09-28 01:10:52 AM
Actually coming back for one thing.  I once did some website work for a lady whose day job then was as a physician at Bethesda NMC.  In the course of one conversation she whipped out her phone and started showing me pics of a patient who was there because he had spilled a good quantity of HF on himself -- specifically all over his crotch.  It wasn't so much that the pics were gross -- they didn't look any worse than a bad case of poison ivy -- it was her description that was a bit graphic for that early in the morning.

IIRC he was expected to live, but unlikely to have kids or, for that matter, a successful orgasm, ever again.
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2013-09-28 01:12:28 AM
foreverb.rxmedicalweb.netdna-cdn.com
I told you one day the bottom would drop out.
 
2013-09-28 01:14:09 AM

Peki: I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.


I've heard BBT and The IT Crowd described as "[nerd|geek] blackface".
 
2013-09-28 01:15:48 AM

Kensey: Peki: I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.

I've heard BBT and The IT Crowd described as "[nerd|geek] blackface".


That's actually really apt, because if you are a geek, you do walk away slightly insulted.
 
2013-09-28 01:22:29 AM
Nancy Reagan was right! Dropping acid will seriously mess you up!

Science. Not even once.
 
2013-09-28 01:25:58 AM

Fubini: CST

There was a certain midwest engineering college that gave all the incoming freshman the following assignment:

Make a chemically powered model car

There were quite a few well meaning but mediocre students who settled for simple (safe) chemical reactions, such as combining vinegar and baking soda to make water and CO2. Some others were a little more adventurous.

One young student, not really knowing chemistry (but figuring he did), just walked down to the chemical storeroom and asked for "strong hydrochloric acid". The stockroom guy, apparently devoid of sense, looked around and found an ancient bottle of 8 molar HCL. Figuring that the kid knew what he was asking for, handed over the acid.

The wayward freshman proceeded with the bottle back to his dorm room to experiment. This is where things get a little fuzzy, but it suffices to say that in the course of said activity his bottle shattered. Three floors of the dorm were evacuated for several hours while the gasses vented. The wayward freshman was first hosed down by the school and then had to stand outside at some length with no pants on. It's rumored that when he returned to his room his keyboard had melted and fused onto his desk, and that all metal surfaces (including his roommates) had become severely rusted.

Following this incident the chemical stockroom implemented stricter controls over who was allowed access to ancient bottles of extremely strong acids.


And I may be able to verify this basic story, because I may have been a freshman at said certain Midwestern engineering college at the time.

Same project, different group lead to 8S getting charged a cleaning fee for the bathroom floor after an acid spill. Thing is, the acid spot was the only *clean* spot on the floor.
 
2013-09-28 01:36:31 AM

Peki: Kensey: Peki: I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.

I've heard BBT and The IT Crowd described as "[nerd|geek] blackface".

That's actually really apt, because if you are a geek, you do walk away slightly insulted.


i'm not sure i qualify as a nerd or geek...if that means you have to like comic books....
but whatever i am, i cannot be hurt or even offended by a poor portrayal of what i or you might consider a geek.
i don't even consider the geekiness anything more than a backdrop. the dialogue is hilarious sometimes.
 
2013-09-28 01:41:35 AM

Popular Opinion: Peki: Kensey: Peki: I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.

I've heard BBT and The IT Crowd described as "[nerd|geek] blackface".

That's actually really apt, because if you are a geek, you do walk away slightly insulted.

i'm not sure i qualify as a nerd or geek...if that means you have to like comic books....
but whatever i am, i cannot be hurt or even offended by a poor portrayal of what i or you might consider a geek.
i don't even consider the geekiness anything more than a backdrop. the dialogue is hilarious sometimes.


Comics aren't required, or else I'd be disqualified. I actually have problems reading the damn things because I'm an English major and can't track how the dialogue is supposed to read. And don't tell me "It's simple," because you know damn well at least one or two panes has stuff flipped around, or there's one panel that stretches in the middle of the damn page.

I can quote, read, interpret, and hand in a ten-page essay on Shakespeare, but comic books remain mysterious. If there was such a thing as comic-book dyslexia, I have it.
 
2013-09-28 01:58:00 AM

Felgraf: Also, at least it wasn't Piranha Solution. Mother of god that stuff scares me. I really, REALLY do not like working with it *at all*.


CSB:
Worked in a wafer fab back in the late 80's with open tanks of 120c piranha. (sulfuric + 30% peroxide)
One day while I was draining the tank the drain line cracked and dumped ~8 gallons of hot solution on to the concrete floor in the fan bay below. I went down the hall to notify supervision and within about 3 mins the whole bay was fogged with fumes.
They didn't dump the fab and before the fumes even cleared they sent the janitor down dressed only with boots, vinyl apron, and glove. He had about 5 gallons of neutralizer, and mop to clean it up.....

We also had open tanks of HF solutions. HF was the only thing that really scared me.
Used to have HCL and chlorine leaks pretty regularly too.

//Good times back in wild west days of semiconductor manufacturing!
 
2013-09-28 02:06:08 AM

Peki: I can quote, read, interpret, and hand in a ten-page essay on Shakespeare, but comic books remain mysterious. If there was such a thing as comic-book dyslexia, I have it.


www.albertomoran.com
One of the best resources for learning to read/appreciate comics

though it's presented in 'graphic novel' format, it's a straight 9-panel layout unless he's illustrating examples of those panels you find difficult

/lifelong comic geek, and I work weekends at the real life 'Nerdvana'
//not for much longer, sadly
///new baby, about to graduate, etc.
 
2013-09-28 02:58:41 AM

Felgraf: Nothing like a small faceful of HCl fumes to clean your sinuses.


I can remember combining some stuff in chemistry class once and the teacher told us to waft the fumes toward our faces to get a whiff. Of course I stupidly put the test tube right under my nose and sniffed. It was like someone had jammed a wire brush up my nose.
 
2013-09-28 03:00:39 AM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: I spilled some HCl all over my arm in lab once. Freaked out for a sec, then just sat there and watched my wet arm do nothing. Rinsed it off after a minute or so then told the TA his HCl sucks and is ghey.

I thought it would at least fizz like H2O2.


Hydrogen proxide won't fizz on health skin, the fizzing is cause by the reaction of lysine, which is only release during cell damage.

Also your HCI was probably pretty diluted. It's not as bad in a diluted form as it can take 30seconds or more to affect the skin, it is often used in toilet bowl cleaners.
 
2013-09-28 04:20:48 AM

fusillade762: Felgraf: Nothing like a small faceful of HCl fumes to clean your sinuses.

I can remember combining some stuff in chemistry class once and the teacher told us to waft the fumes toward our faces to get a whiff. Of course I stupidly put the test tube right under my nose and sniffed. It was like someone had jammed a wire brush up my nose.


Was it ammonia?
 
2013-09-28 04:48:52 AM
This thread makes me glad I'm not a chemist. Seriously, fark screwing around with some of the crap y'all have to work with.
 
2013-09-28 05:02:23 AM

WraithSama: My CSB time:

I work at a major aerospace manufacturer that uses full immersion chem lines that feature, among others, hydrochloric and hydroflouric acids.  I was fortunate to never witness one, but I understand that a fissure in a tank line or a spill can produce a colorful cloud-o-death.  My father-in-law that's been a manufacturing engineer there for some 30 years told me he once saw a man who didn't evacuate quickly enough and was exposed to a cloud from an acid spill.  He said the guy started down the stairs, collapsed, and fell the remaining steps.  When they were finally able to get to him, the dude was basically goo; like all the bones had been removed from his body.

/So glad I no longer work in a building with a chem line, never felt comfortable working around them.


Well, so much for sleeping tonight.
 
2013-09-28 05:23:37 AM
Fun thread. I regularly use 48% HF and many other things mentioned here.

But its not a party until you break out the metal hydride. You know you're having fun when you take off your PPE and are covered in sweat. Gotta love something that reacts [violently] to air, water, etc... and a reaction product of that explosive exothermic reaction is strong base. Fun stuff.
 
2013-09-28 06:16:56 AM
And then, there is the most horrible poisoning of them all - gold thioglucose or gold thioglutimate.
 
2013-09-28 07:29:27 AM

Glockenspiel Hero: Still, nowhere near as bad as walking past an organic lab and smelling new mown hay. Umm, guys, you might want to evacuate pronto...


Phosgene smell.  Synthetically useful, scary stuff.  Proper building design for chem labs would have enough air output by the hoods/air handling that little air would be going from the labs to the hallway corridor, but how many universities really have the money to design things properly (still shuddering at the UW Madison Daniels building organic teaching labs with wide open benchtops and all your monkey bars mounted in open air).

Moral of this HCl story is, glass bottles should be put down gently and people picking them up should be mindful of the "lip" of any shelf as they pull those bottles out.  HCl will certainly do some damage, but the immediate "oh shiat" reaction is probably due to the cloud of white vapor as the humidity in Seattle has been pretty high.

PhD candidate in chemistry...  so many stories.   Surprised nobody has mentioned dry solvent 'stills yet.  Quenching the sodium chunks resting in ether in an absurdly large flask with the tiny, tiny neck is a recipe for interesting.
 
2013-09-28 07:30:17 AM

Thresher: Not one of you? No Fight Club pic?  I am disappoint    [content6.flixster.com image 350x235]


That was a base, not an acid.

BIG difference.

But, it was funny in hindsight.  Read the subtext.  Here is the burn, the burn is reality, focus on the burn.  Experience it, don't hide from it.  Now, you have two options,  You can run your hand under water (symbolic of baptism) and make it worse, or you can pour an acid over it to neutralize the base.  Some day you will die, until you know that (there is no afterlife) you are useless.

Fight Club was one big fat anti-religion movie - mostly the religion of consumerism and mass media.  It's why I laughed my ass off when his character in 12 Monkeys pointed at the TV and said "Look.  Listen.  Kneel.  Pray."
 
2013-09-28 08:47:40 AM

cuzsis: Glockenspiel Hero: Every chemist has a great store of tales like this.  I managed to open a stuck jar of KOH pellets once and ended up flinging them all over the place.  I got most of them but missed two- one ate a hole in my pocket, the other I found about ten minutes later when I noticed my hair felt funny.  Dissolved it all very nicely down to a bald spot.

I also managed to turn my arm orange when I splashed fuming nitric all over it while nitrating cotton balls,  (Damn ice bath cubes locked up when I was trying to move the flask)

Still, nowhere near as bad as walking past an organic lab and smelling new mown hay.   Umm, guys, you might want to evacuate pronto...

Well...don't leave us hanging! What was it?

/never took organic chem


Nerve agent.

One of the things they teach you to look for in the Army. Of course if you're smelling it, you've been exposed. Hopefully you've got your mask to limit any further breathing of it, and you've got some atropine and 2-Pam Chloride to inject.

At least those you can counteract nerve agents. You get hit with blood or blister agents, there is not as much can be done for you.
 
2013-09-28 08:54:35 AM
CSB:

I got a bunch of HCl in my throat once. I drank too much the night before and had the bile heaves the next morning for about 7 hours. It sucked.
I mad a full recovery though.

/End CSB
 
2013-09-28 09:09:19 AM
I saw the Mythbusters Breaking Bad episode the other day and they attempted to recreate the bathtub scene from the show. According to Jamie, HCI isn't that dangerous unless you mix it with his manly "special sauce".
 
2013-09-28 09:35:26 AM
I see the Seattle FD is into sepia tone filters, or something similar...
blog.seattlepi.com
 
2013-09-28 10:09:24 AM

tetsoushima: http://i.minus.com/ibazhDkbGDPb5P.gif  I thought this gif was relevant to the thread.  too large to fit on here, but relevant.


Wow -- what bear porn is that from?
 
2013-09-28 10:15:25 AM

Bigdogdaddy: One of our idiots in the lab decided he was going to sneak some out of the plant because he figured it would clear a blocked drain at home.  [...]  I'm still not sure what it would have done to the plumbing in his house.


Well, given that one of the most common toilet-cleaning products is 20% HCl, I'm going with "not much at all".

Guy was an idiot anyway to try to smuggle out something he could buy for a couple of bucks at any hardware store.

I've gotten splashed by each of the big three -- HCl, nitric, and sulfuric. HCl did nothing before I rinsed it off. Nitric stung almost immediately, and left a hard yellow patch that eventually peeled away like a blister. Sulfuric stung and hurt immediately, and left a conventional blister, even though I rinsed it almost immediately.

I made a conscious decision never to mess with HF in any form.
 
2013-09-28 11:04:04 AM

JohnAnnArbor: That'll clear the ol' sinuses.


Oh thank goodness. I am desperate to get rid of this sinus infection.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-28 11:06:11 AM

BrainyBear: tetsoushima: http://i.minus.com/ibazhDkbGDPb5P.gif  I thought this gif was relevant to the thread.  too large to fit on here, but relevant.

Wow -- what bear porn is that from?


The next scene involves some rubber gloves, a "slippery when wet" sign, and a (very) hard hat.
 
2013-09-28 11:13:23 AM
www.chemspider.com
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-09-28 12:08:14 PM

Cream of Meat: Since we have all the chem nerds here, any HPLC (SEC, RP), LC-MS guys around?  Could use someone to turn to for method development help.


I've done a fair bit of LC-MS. EIP
 
2013-09-28 12:08:18 PM

King Something: I'll see your HF and raise you ClF3

/to say nothing of hexanitrohexaazaisowurtzitane and the aptly-named FOOF


In computer nerddom, F00F--with zeros instead of ohs--was a bug in the original Pentium where unprivileged applications could freeze the CPU until a hard reset or power cycle.  This was done using the illegal instruction "lock cmpxchg8b eax".  The fact that it was an illegal instruction--cmpxchg8b makes no sense when used on a register rather than memory--combined with "lock" confused the Pentium into getting into a bad state.

As in chemistry, the "foof" nickname came from its symbol, so to speak: the bytes representing "lock cmpxchg8b eax" were F0 0F C7 C8.
 
2013-09-28 12:19:47 PM

doglover: At least it wasn't HF or some other solution. HCl will burn you pretty bad, but it's natural. You make it in your stomach. HF isn't natural and while it won't eat dead meat like in Breaking Bad, it will kill you. It's contact poison and can give you a heart attack, or just go to town inside your body and do all kinds of nasty.


HF is used to dissolve asbestos.
/ agreed
 
2013-09-28 12:20:18 PM
www.thebeerdrifter.com

/yes I'm sympathetic, but it's the first thing that leapt to mind
 
2013-09-28 12:20:56 PM

Tchernobog: Ugh.  I work with Hydrofluoric acid daily...not good stuff.  Especially if you have any cuts/scrapes, anything.

/Use it to strip chrome/aluminum


A guy locally opened a drum of it to clean the inside of a tanker, spilled on himself. He dead.
 
2013-09-28 12:22:38 PM
NOBODY mentioned fluoroantimonic acid? It's 10 quadrillion times stronger than 100% sulfuric acid! Show some respect!
 
2013-09-28 12:23:47 PM

King Something: doglover: At least it wasn't HF or some other solution. HCl will burn you pretty bad, but it's natural. You make it in your stomach. HF isn't natural and while it won't eat dead meat like in Breaking Bad, it will kill you. It's contact poison and can give you a heart attack, or just go to town inside your body and do all kinds of nasty.

I'll see your HF and raise you ClF3

/to say nothing of hexanitrohexaazaisowurtzitane and the aptly-named FOOF


ClF3 and HF in one thread? Wow. Who knew fark was full of uranium hexafluoride workers?
 
2013-09-28 12:32:44 PM

Mister Peejay: cuzsis: Okay guys, freak me out here.

 It's been a looong time since I took chem. I called it quits in the lab as a job when I realized I was too lazy to keep up proper safety in the lab on a day-in-day-out basis (forgetting gloves, goggles, periodically, that sort of thing.) Other than getting a few snoot fulls of HCl, never ran into any truly awful stuff that I recall.

 What does HF do to you?

Makes flesh necrotic, leaches the calcium from your bones and replaces it with fluorine (good luck ever getting THAT out, if you live long enough for it to be a problem), and the best part is that it kills your nerve endings so you don't even feel the burn until it's far too late to do anything about it.

IIRC, three square inches of skin contact is fatal.


The only response to stop the spread further into the tissue is to inject paraffin under the exposure.
 
2013-09-28 12:43:11 PM
I've never been around anything too nasty, but I did manage to turn my thumb green by screwing up in high school chemistry class.  I did the steps wrong, and also forgot to do them in the fume hood, producing some lovely Cl2 gas.  I quickly knew what I did wrong by the beginning of the smell, so I covered the test tube with my thumb.  In the time for me to walk over to the fume hood, the gas had turned that part of my thumb's skin green. =)

My thumb didn't blister or anything.  It pretty much stained the skin, and the green went away in the normal process of skin layer replacement in about 3 weeks.

/nothing compared to the stuff you all are describing!!
 
2013-09-28 03:31:11 PM

itsaidwhat: Mister Peejay: cuzsis: Okay guys, freak me out here.

 It's been a looong time since I took chem. I called it quits in the lab as a job when I realized I was too lazy to keep up proper safety in the lab on a day-in-day-out basis (forgetting gloves, goggles, periodically, that sort of thing.) Other than getting a few snoot fulls of HCl, never ran into any truly awful stuff that I recall.

 What does HF do to you?

Makes flesh necrotic, leaches the calcium from your bones and replaces it with fluorine (good luck ever getting THAT out, if you live long enough for it to be a problem), and the best part is that it kills your nerve endings so you don't even feel the burn until it's far too late to do anything about it.

IIRC, three square inches of skin contact is fatal.

The only response to stop the spread further into the tissue is to inject paraffin under the exposure.


Nice.  I thought it was cooking grease?
 
2013-09-28 03:54:57 PM

White_Scarf_Syndrome: itsaidwhat: Mister Peejay: cuzsis: Okay guys, freak me out here.

 It's been a looong time since I took chem. I called it quits in the lab as a job when I realized I was too lazy to keep up proper safety in the lab on a day-in-day-out basis (forgetting gloves, goggles, periodically, that sort of thing.) Other than getting a few snoot fulls of HCl, never ran into any truly awful stuff that I recall.

 What does HF do to you?

Makes flesh necrotic, leaches the calcium from your bones and replaces it with fluorine (good luck ever getting THAT out, if you live long enough for it to be a problem), and the best part is that it kills your nerve endings so you don't even feel the burn until it's far too late to do anything about it.

IIRC, three square inches of skin contact is fatal.

The only response to stop the spread further into the tissue is to inject paraffin under the exposure.

Nice.  I thought it was cooking grease?


You kids think bacon is the solution to everything.

I've never seen it done. My guess is that it's medicinal liquid paraffin.

From wiki. "Medicinal liquid paraffin is a very highly refined mineral oil used in cosmetics and for medical purposes. This is a UK definition (British Pharmacopoeia) and the term may have different uses in other countries. The cosmetic or medicinal liquid paraffin should not be confused with the paraffin (or kerosene) used as a fuel."
 
2013-09-28 04:15:20 PM

Peki: Kensey: Peki: I hate the Big Bang Theory, and everyone I know who is actually a geek does.

I've heard BBT and The IT Crowd described as "[nerd|geek] blackface".

That's actually really apt, because if you are a geek, you do walk away slightly insulted.


Yes, unfortunately. I'm going to adopt that term to describe both shows, I think - it's rather accurate.
 
2013-09-28 05:04:44 PM

jso2897: And then, there is the most horrible poisoning of them all - gold thioglucose or gold thioglutimate.


How so?  All I can find is some references to appetite upregulation.
 
2013-09-28 05:10:43 PM
At least it wasn't H2FSbF6.
 
2013-09-28 05:29:10 PM

ransack.: NOBODY mentioned fluoroantimonic acid? It's 10 quadrillion times stronger than 100% sulfuric acid! Show some respect!


Jesus lizards!  I thought you were exaggerating.
 
2013-09-28 05:40:03 PM
When I was a senior in high school, we had an open house for eighth grade students. Part was the chem lab, showing off basic reactions- carbide in bleach, plating metals, things like that.

I forget what reaction I was running, but the fume hood died. Quick whiff of chlorine, got everyone out of there, but not before getting a hell of a lungful of chlorine gas.

Hurt like a biatch. I was outside hacking up a lung for about an hour in the snow, and couldn't take a deep breath for about a month.
 
2013-09-28 05:58:20 PM
Careful if working with Picric acid. If the moisture content drops it will explode like an IED.
Watched a film of it exploding in a lab. Pretty impressive.
 
2013-09-28 06:12:16 PM

itsaidwhat: White_Scarf_Syndrome: itsaidwhat: Mister Peejay: cuzsis: Okay guys, freak me out here.

 It's been a looong time since I took chem. I called it quits in the lab as a job when I realized I was too lazy to keep up proper safety in the lab on a day-in-day-out basis (forgetting gloves, goggles, periodically, that sort of thing.) Other than getting a few snoot fulls of HCl, never ran into any truly awful stuff that I recall.

 What does HF do to you?

Makes flesh necrotic, leaches the calcium from your bones and replaces it with fluorine (good luck ever getting THAT out, if you live long enough for it to be a problem), and the best part is that it kills your nerve endings so you don't even feel the burn until it's far too late to do anything about it.

IIRC, three square inches of skin contact is fatal.

The only response to stop the spread further into the tissue is to inject paraffin under the exposure.

Nice.  I thought it was cooking grease?

You kids think bacon is the solution to everything.

I've never seen it done. My guess is that it's medicinal liquid paraffin.

From wiki. "Medicinal liquid paraffin is a very highly refined mineral oil used in cosmetics and for medical purposes. This is a UK definition (British Pharmacopoeia) and the term may have different uses in other countries. The cosmetic or medicinal liquid paraffin should not be confused with the paraffin (or kerosene) used as a fuel."


From the MSDS:

Skin Contact:
In case of contact, immediately flush skin with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing
and shoes. Cover the irritated skin with an emollient. Cold water may be used. Wash clothing before reuse. Thoroughly clean
shoes before reuse. Get medical attention immediately. While waiting for medical attention, it has been shown that flushing
the affected area with water for one minute and then massaging HF Antidote Gel into the wound until there is a cessation of
pain is a most effective first aid treatment. HF Antidote Gel contains Calcium Gluconate which combines with HF for insoluble
Calcium Fluoride, thus preventing the extraction of calcium from the body tissue and bones. Another alternative first aid
treatment, after thorough washing of the burned area, is to immerse the burned area in a solution of 0.2% iced aqueous
Hyamine 1622 or 0.13% iced aqueous Zephiran Chloride. If immersion is inpractical, towels should be soaked with one of
the above solutions and used as compresses for the burn area. Hyamine 1622 is a trade name for Tetracaine Benzethonium
Chloride. Zephiran is a trade name for Benzalkonium Chloride. Again, seek medical attention as soon as possible for all burns
regardless of how minor they may appear initially.

For eye contact you're basically farked.

Eye Contact:
Check for and remove any contact lenses. In case of contact, immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15-30
minutes. Cold water may be used. Keep the eyelids apart and away from the eyeballs during irrigation. Do not use oily drops
or ointment or HF skin burn treatments on the eyes. Get medical attention immediately, preferrably an eye specialist. If a
physician is not immediately available, apply one or two drops of ophthalmic anesthetic (e.g. 0.5% Pontocaine Hydrochloride
solution). Place ice pack on eyes until reaching emergency room.

One of my favorite things to do is to read the MSDS for various substances and pretend it's a detailed sheet on my ex girlfriends.  You should try it.
 
2013-09-28 07:06:40 PM

doosh: fusillade762: Felgraf: Nothing like a small faceful of HCl fumes to clean your sinuses.

I can remember combining some stuff in chemistry class once and the teacher told us to waft the fumes toward our faces to get a whiff. Of course I stupidly put the test tube right under my nose and sniffed. It was like someone had jammed a wire brush up my nose.

Was it ammonia?


Could have been. Honestly it was 30 years ago, so I don't remember for sure.
 
2013-09-28 07:09:08 PM
And those Woodstock wimps complain about bad acid.
 
2013-09-28 08:56:05 PM

MythDragon: cuzsis: Glockenspiel Hero: Every chemist has a great store of tales like this.  I managed to open a stuck jar of KOH pellets once and ended up flinging them all over the place.  I got most of them but missed two- one ate a hole in my pocket, the other I found about ten minutes later when I noticed my hair felt funny.  Dissolved it all very nicely down to a bald spot.

I also managed to turn my arm orange when I splashed fuming nitric all over it while nitrating cotton balls,  (Damn ice bath cubes locked up when I was trying to move the flask)

Still, nowhere near as bad as walking past an organic lab and smelling new mown hay.   Umm, guys, you might want to evacuate pronto...

Well...don't leave us hanging! What was it?

/never took organic chem

Nerve agent.

One of the things they teach you to look for in the Army. Of course if you're smelling it, you've been exposed. Hopefully you've got your mask to limit any further breathing of it, and you've got some atropine and 2-Pam Chloride to inject.

At least those you can counteract nerve agents. You get hit with blood or blister agents, there is not as much can be done for you.


Aaaannd the atropine was to keep the 2-PAM chloride from killing you. Nasty farking stuff. I had a healthy respect for the chemical part of NBC training, and it always creeped me out a little when we got to that part of the training rotation. Also, this was right after the USSR had broken up and nobody was really sure what had happened to all that stuff the Soviets had salted away over the years. A lot of the old Cold-War era NCOs that I dealt with were convinced that our next theater action, somebody was gonna get dosed.
 
2013-09-28 10:16:56 PM

cryinoutloud: JohnAnnArbor: That'll clear the ol' sinuses.

Oh thank goodness. I am desperate to get rid of this sinus infection.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 500x330]


Watch out for Naegleria fowleri there.  Enters through the nose, eats your brain.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-09-28 10:18:54 PM

Sword and Shield: When I was a senior in high school, we had an open house for eighth grade students. Part was the chem lab, showing off basic reactions- carbide in bleach, plating metals, things like that.

I forget what reaction I was running, but the fume hood died. Quick whiff of chlorine, got everyone out of there, but not before getting a hell of a lungful of chlorine gas.

Hurt like a biatch. I was outside hacking up a lung for about an hour in the snow, and couldn't take a deep breath for about a month.


Some dumbass put bleach in his gas tank thinking it would clean up his truck's emissions somehow.

When it was at our shop for the emissions diagnosis, I was walking by and decided to try to locate the (loud) exhaust leak.  Stuck my head under the running truck to have a look and the next thing I remember, I'm outside trying to breathe.
 
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