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(The Raw Story)   Christian groups sue to keep Kansas schools from teaching science as if it's true   (rawstory.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, Kansas, Kansas schools, faith groups, orthodoxy, creationisms, standards, Pacific Justice Institute  
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3636 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Sep 2013 at 12:55 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-27 02:30:22 PM  

AxiomJackson: Pants full of macaroni!!: SkinnyHead: "It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles. He can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author."  ~ Thomas Paine.

Auditioning for the role of Bevets, are we?

I wonder what point is he trying to prove by quoting a political activist that has been dead for over 200 years.


To be fair, these creationists could probably learn alot from a comedian.
 
2013-09-27 02:30:59 PM  
www.creationism.org

www.creationism.org

such wit simply could not have evolved from apes
 
2013-09-27 02:31:12 PM  

AxiomJackson: Pants full of macaroni!!: SkinnyHead: "It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles. He can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author."  ~ Thomas Paine.

Auditioning for the role of Bevets, are we?

I wonder what point is he trying to prove by quoting a political activist that has been dead for over 200 years.



It's more eloquent than saying "I got nothing."
 
2013-09-27 02:32:03 PM  

dickfreckle: Another group, the Citizens for Objective Public Education (COPE, Inc.) filed suit on Sep. 26 demanding that the new curricula not be instituted

Adding this to my too long list of groups who name themselves one thing to entice rubes and practice the exact opposite.

It's a long list, rivaling the LOPAGOPATA. (can't recall the exact acronym).


It's the LOPCATGOPATA

List of People Conspiring Against the GOP; and Therefore, America. :)

I'd like to see your list, if you please.
 
2013-09-27 02:32:44 PM  
Oh shiat, I forgot about this gem of a webcomic:

www.answersingenesis.org
 
2013-09-27 02:32:47 PM  

super_grass: Luckily for them, the hard core post-modernists are also starting to reject empiricism because of "privilege" and "social constructs".

Looks like all derp converges at the top.


Rather, it collects in pools at the far edges.
 
2013-09-27 02:33:27 PM  
scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-09-27 02:36:08 PM  

super_grass: Oh shiat, I forgot about this gem of a webcomic:

[www.answersingenesis.org image 291x324]


upload.wikimedia.org

upload.wikimedia.org

upload.wikimedia.org

Amazing how science can blow holes in even simplistic crap like that.
 
2013-09-27 02:36:44 PM  

super_grass: Oh shiat, I forgot about this gem of a webcomic:

[www.answersingenesis.org image 291x324]


upload.wikimedia.org

umm...

artist must have gone to school in Kansas
 
2013-09-27 02:37:20 PM  

Bloody William: super_grass: Oh shiat, I forgot about this gem of a webcomic:

[www.answersingenesis.org image 291x324]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 474x231]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 270x202]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x377]

Amazing how science can blow holes in even simplistic crap like that.


lol dammit!
 
2013-09-27 02:37:34 PM  
I fully agree. The wormhole aliens are Gods.
 
2013-09-27 02:38:06 PM  
Ask them to name one, only ONE, invention based on intelligent design!
We should do like the Romans. They were smart....
 
2013-09-27 02:38:50 PM  

mgshamster: I've heard that Kansas actually used to be pretty liberal, back before it was all large corporate-owned farms.


My impression is more "populist" than "liberal", but that's a subtle nuance.
 
2013-09-27 02:39:30 PM  

FloydA: Nurglitch: What if they just teach it as "mostly, contingently, and as far as we knew, kinda true," rather than TRUTH?

What if they each religious beliefs in church, and science in science classes?

Evolution happens.  Evolution has happened.  Evolution will continue to happen as long as there are organisms that reproduce.  If the creationists can't deal with that simple fact, that's their problem.


No, I am pretty sure they are making it your problem. Luckily they haven't spread and infected most other countries so we can just look on and laugh at you lot.

/maybe a bit nervously, because it is not as if there aren't plenty of stupid people everywhere else, but over here they mostly get drunk, listen to One Direction or whatever, and read lots of celebrity gossip, rather than getting involved in the school curriculum, etc.
 
2013-09-27 02:39:39 PM  

whidbey: I fully agree. The wormhole aliens are Gods.


The farked up thing is that in the limited cosmology of Star Trek, the wormhole aliens really were the patron gods of Bajor, looking after its interests in a very disjointed and non-linear way.
 
2013-09-27 02:42:25 PM  
controversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.comcontroversy.wearscience.com
 
2013-09-27 02:43:48 PM  

FloydA: haolegirl:

So which "flavor" are they wanting taught in PUBLIC schools? Or do we let the wackos fight it out amongst themselves, and get back to us with the winner.

Each one of them sincerely believes that when they "make America a Christian country," it will be their own flavor of Christianity that is holding the reins.  They haven't thought that far ahead, to be honest.  If they had actually bothered to really think about the question, they would realize that the biggest religion in the US is the Catholic Church, with nearly five times as many members as the second largest church (SBC).  (In fact, there are nearly as many Catholics in the US as there are all other Christian denominations combined.) And the Catholic Church has no problem with evolution.

If they actually stopped to think logically about it, the creationists would work very hard to maintain the separation of church and state, because if any church takes over the state, it's not going to be theirs.   (Of course if they actually had any skill at thinking logically, they would not be creationists.)

 Also, will there be a way to opt out of the science classes for people of other/no religion?

The creationists are trying to force their religion into science classrooms because they can't force non-believers to attend church. They want their religion to be mandatory, so no, they would not allow any sort of "opt out."


Thank goodness I don't live there then, I wouldn't want my pic on Fark as "homeschool mom" with big teeth n all!
 
2013-09-27 02:45:09 PM  

SkinnyHead: "It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles. He can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author."  ~ Thomas Paine.



I can cherry-pick quotes too.

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

Thomas Paine - The Age of Reason


The opinions I have advanced ... are the effect of the most clear and long-established conviction that the Bible and the Testament are impositions upon the world, that the fall of man, the account of Jesus Christ being the Son of God, and of his dying to appease the wrath of God, and of salvation, by that strange means, are all fabulous inventions, dishonorable to the wisdom and power of the Almighty; that the only true religion is Deism, by which I then meant, and mean now, the belief of one God, and an imitation of his moral character, or the practice of what are called moral virtues - and that it was upon this only (so far as religion is concerned) that I rested all my hopes of happiness hereafter. So say I now - and so help me God.

Thomas Paine - The Age of Reason
 
2013-09-27 02:45:38 PM  

Bloody William: whidbey: I fully agree. The wormhole aliens are Gods.

The farked up thing is that in the limited cosmology of Star Trek, the wormhole aliens really were the patron gods of Bajor, looking after its interests in a very disjointed and non-linear way.


Meanwhile the Koch Bros consult the KostaMojen*


*yes I had to actually Google how to spell that
 
2013-09-27 02:46:01 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Klom Dark: I drove thru Kansas yesterday coming back from Colorado, it was terrifying. Stupid, stupid people and stupid billboards all the way down i70. Turned north at Salina and felt a great sense of relief when i crossed the Welcome to Nebraska sign. The derp is strong in parts of Nebraska, but nothing compared to the lifeless blank eyes of most of the brainwashed masses there in Kansas.

I'll never understand the logic behind those billboards.  Do they actually think they're changing anyone's minds?  Wouldn't that money be better spent helping the hungry, the poor, the sick?


 I agree, but apparently useful idiots get some sort of self-satisfaction by paying for them. I fully agree with you that it would be way better spent helping the hungry, poor, sick. I don't get it.

And who is behind these black billboards in Nebraska that say ignorant shiat like "You can run, but you can't hide from me - God". What possible use are they? Just guilt-tripping the gullible or???
 
2013-09-27 02:49:37 PM  

unexplained bacon: [www.creationism.org image 720x375]

[www.creationism.org image 720x375]

such wit simply could not have evolved from apes


"Man" Tracks has been debunked for years - only the most intellectually dishonest creationists still use this argument:  http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/mantrack.htm

/ just saying...
 
2013-09-27 02:50:43 PM  

Klom Dark: And who is behind these black billboards in Nebraska that say ignorant shiat like "You can run, but you can't hide from me - God". What possible use are they? Just guilt-tripping the gullible or???


Fear-tripping the authoritarian followers into conformity would seem more likely to be accurate.
 
2013-09-27 02:51:49 PM  
All I can say is that is weak faith that is afraid of being tested. Or puny god.
 
2013-09-27 02:52:12 PM  

vudukungfu: We need to start treating Christians just like their ululating wacko babby raping worshiper counterparts that squat in the desert.
They are 100% the same kind of ignorant philistine schizospiritual terrorists andthey havenothing to offer society or civilizationexcept for patented fear and prejudice.
There is no place for them on this earth but an insaneasylum.
And whenarmed, they are a clear and present danger to all around.
Period.


You know, there are many millions of Christians in this country who don't force their views on others and don't agree with this kind of education nonsense. They just go about their business and go to church on Sunday's. They have plenty to offer society, not due to their faith, but due to the fact that they are human beings that have lives that are not solely about their faith. I'm an atheist, but I think it is very important to make a clear distinction between the people that do things like these groups from TFA and many millions of others who don't do anything to bother anyone. Just outright calling anyone who 'believes' a whacko isn't helping.
 
2013-09-27 02:52:32 PM  

R.A.Danny: bborchar: R.A.Danny: The world needs ditch diggers too.

At least my kids will have less competition out there in the real world.

My kids will be glad to hire your kid.

:)


Meant that in the way of "I actually want to educate my children in science, math, history and language, and if the other idiots don't want to do that with their children, then that will free up plenty of jobs that would otherwise go to other well-educated kids".  Now as I read what I originally wrote, I see that it can be taken either way.  My fault.

/my kids will still learn from qualified professionals
//and I don't care if they learn something I disagree with
///I only care that my kids learn to think for themselves
 
2013-09-27 02:54:14 PM  

Klom Dark: Satanic_Hamster: Klom Dark: I drove thru Kansas yesterday coming back from Colorado, it was terrifying. Stupid, stupid people and stupid billboards all the way down i70. Turned north at Salina and felt a great sense of relief when i crossed the Welcome to Nebraska sign. The derp is strong in parts of Nebraska, but nothing compared to the lifeless blank eyes of most of the brainwashed masses there in Kansas.

I'll never understand the logic behind those billboards.  Do they actually think they're changing anyone's minds?  Wouldn't that money be better spent helping the hungry, the poor, the sick?

 I agree, but apparently useful idiots get some sort of self-satisfaction by paying for them. I fully agree with you that it would be way better spent helping the hungry, poor, sick. I don't get it.

And who is behind these black billboards in Nebraska that say ignorant shiat like "You can run, but you can't hide from me - God". What possible use are they? Just guilt-tripping the gullible or???


They let the rest of us know we can safely dismiss them as morons, so..there's that.
 
2013-09-27 02:55:49 PM  

Elzar: unexplained bacon: [www.creationism.org image 720x375]

[www.creationism.org image 720x375]

such wit simply could not have evolved from apes

"Man" Tracks has been debunked for years - only the most intellectually dishonest creationists still use this argument:  http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/mantrack.htm

/ just saying...


probably by people with fancy diplomas

TRICKSTERS!

lets see em refudicate THIS!


www.creationism.org
 
2013-09-27 03:00:25 PM  

qorkfiend: They've lost the battle to raise religion up to the level of science, so now they're trying to drag science down to the level of religion. Fascinating.


That's a very concise way of summarizing the situation. Well done.
 
2013-09-27 03:06:19 PM  

AxiomJackson: Pants full of macaroni!!: SkinnyHead: "It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles. He can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author."  ~ Thomas Paine.

Auditioning for the role of Bevets, are we?

I wonder what point is he trying to prove by quoting a political activist that has been dead for over 200 years.


Just pointing out that his views support the position asserted in this lawsuit. Paine believed that science should be taught in schools theologically.  He saw the effort to teach science as a form of materialism as an effort to promote atheism in schools:

"The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of the creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labor with studied ingenuity to ascribe everything they behold to innate properties of matter; and jump over all the rest, by saying that matter is eternal."  ~ Thomas Paine.
 
2013-09-27 03:09:31 PM  

FloydA: Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.

[i105.photobucket.com image 533x640]

If you want to teach kids about your personal religious beliefs, do it in church. That way, everyone who wants to hear about your god can do so, and everyone who wants to hear about some other god can go to some other church.

I assure you, you don't want to require me to teach your kids about your creation myths; you would not like the results.  Let your priests and ministers do their jobs and let me do mine.


I'd rather that "if" it had to be taught, that someone like you has to teach it rather than a true believer.
 
2013-09-27 03:13:11 PM  

unexplained bacon: Elzar: unexplained bacon: [www.creationism.org image 720x375]

[www.creationism.org image 720x375]

such wit simply could not have evolved from apes

"Man" Tracks has been debunked for years - only the most intellectually dishonest creationists still use this argument:  http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/mantrack.htm

/ just saying...

probably by people with fancy diplomas

TRICKSTERS!

lets see em refudicate THIS!


[www.creationism.org image 504x720]


There were seven of every clean and two of every unclean.

They can't even get their own apologetics right!
 
2013-09-27 03:13:27 PM  

vudukungfu: Schools are like polling places. And religion is like a penis. It's OK to have one. It's OK to be proud of it.It is NOT OK to wave it around in public.


Don't judge me.
 
2013-09-27 03:17:11 PM  

FloydA: haolegirl:

I thought they kinda sorta believed in evolution, that a little bit happened cause Noah couldn't fit two of EVERYTHING on the ark, and just brought a sampling and what we have now evolved from that? Or did I dream it?


Not all of them, but some creationists make that claim.  What's amazing about it is that, in order for the claim to make even a tiny bit of sense, they have to propose that evolution can happen a whole hell of a lot faster than even the most extreme PunkEek fan would propose, AND that nobody noticed at the time that a pair of generic deer gave birth to white tails, mule deer, elk, moose, red deer, and caribou all in one litter,  AND that this process of hyper-evolution stopped as soon as we started looking.
They make that argument in an effort to preserve the ark story.

Other creationists just sort of bypass the ark story and assume that God crammed the animals into that small space by magic, or the ark was bigger than it is described, as though it was a Tardis or something.


Meat plants. That's my favorite "no, the ark is totally true!" argument. In short, the animals on the Ark didn't prey on each other because, prior to the flood, they were all herbivores. Post-flood scarcity led to the dietary change of what we now call carnivores. Because pre-flood, there were plants made of meat, and that's what lions and bears ate, and that's why they have predatory teeth and claws where other animals are designed to eat plants.

I'd have laughed myself to death over that except it was the honest assertion of my friend's mom. (My friend, thankfully, is smart enough to think that's bugfark insane. But he's one of 7 kids in a rural PA homeschooled family, and everything you can possibly imagine about them is true) Instead I brought up the genetic bottleneck in cheetahs, which would have happened to every animal in the flood, and her response was that God fixed them all afterward. Letting that one slide, I asked her why the cheetahs didn't get fixed along with all the others then.

Bless her heart, she actually used wit. "Because cheetahs never prosper."

/and none of that is a pre-written joke from somewhere
//that legit happened
///slashies evolved in threes
 
2013-09-27 03:20:17 PM  

meat0918: unexplained bacon: Elzar: unexplained bacon: [www.creationism.org image 720x375]

[www.creationism.org image 720x375]

such wit simply could not have evolved from apes

"Man" Tracks has been debunked for years - only the most intellectually dishonest creationists still use this argument:  http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/mantrack.htm

/ just saying...

probably by people with fancy diplomas

TRICKSTERS!

lets see em refudicate THIS!


[www.creationism.org image 504x720]

There were seven of every clean and two of every unclean.

They can't even get their own apologetics right!


I browsed around a creationism site to grab those pics...the stupid was...INTENSE.
So yeah, let's pump that shiat into our kids heads and call it science...or math or waffles, who cares once you've gone that farkin' crazy.

/really unbelievable, these folks should be brushed aside as lunatics.
 
2013-09-27 03:25:39 PM  

unexplained bacon: Elzar: unexplained bacon: [www.creationism.org image 720x375]

[www.creationism.org image 720x375]

such wit simply could not have evolved from apes

"Man" Tracks has been debunked for years - only the most intellectually dishonest creationists still use this argument:  http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/mantrack.htm

/ just saying...

probably by people with fancy diplomas

TRICKSTERS!

lets see em refudicate THIS!


[www.creationism.org image 504x720]


I must reassess my position. If "modern engineering" and "several [unidentified] studies" have confirmed the viability of the Ark, then every argument against a worldwide flood is null and void.
 
2013-09-27 03:27:25 PM  

Hugh2d2: Scopes Trial part 2: Scientific Denial Boogaloo


yeh, seriously... this shiat aint constitutional.
 
2013-09-27 03:29:35 PM  

mgshamster: EWreckedSean: Off the subject, but saying science is true is a bit of a misnomer too. Scientific theories, which are the strongest of scientific facts, are often shown to be not 100% accurate (e.g. special relativity to general relativity).

The bold is blatantly false.  Theories are explanations of facts, they are not just "stronger facts."


I would suggest you google scientific fact...
 
2013-09-27 03:35:14 PM  

Dimensio: unexplained bacon: Elzar: unexplained bacon: [www.creationism.org image 720x375]

[www.creationism.org image 720x375]

such wit simply could not have evolved from apes

"Man" Tracks has been debunked for years - only the most intellectually dishonest creationists still use this argument:  http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/mantrack.htm

/ just saying...

probably by people with fancy diplomas

TRICKSTERS!

lets see em refudicate THIS!


[www.creationism.org image 504x720]

I must reassess my position. If "modern engineering" and "several [unidentified] studies" have confirmed the viability of the Ark, then every argument against a worldwide flood is null and void.


yep you can't argue with science
 
2013-09-27 03:36:00 PM  

SkinnyHead: "It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles. He can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author."  ~ Thomas Paine.


BEVETS!!!!
 
2013-09-27 03:36:02 PM  

EWreckedSean: mgshamster: EWreckedSean: Off the subject, but saying science is true is a bit of a misnomer too. Scientific theories, which are the strongest of scientific facts, are often shown to be not 100% accurate (e.g. special relativity to general relativity).

The bold is blatantly false.  Theories are explanations of facts, they are not just "stronger facts."

I would suggest you google scientific fact...


Double down, that's the ticket...
 
2013-09-27 03:36:56 PM  

Graffito: Nurglitch: What if they just teach it as "mostly, contingently, and as far as we knew, kinda true," rather than TRUTH?

But that's what science does now.

Science doesn't claim to know "The Truth."  Observations are either true or falsified, and the theories developed from observations and experiments are only claimed to be the best explanation that we have so far.

Scientists believe that by assiduously applying the scientific method we can develop a more predictive understanding of the universe.  Ultimate truth is the purview of religion, not science.


Yes, that's my point: Too many people think that when scientists talk about 'facts' and so on, that these scientists are talking about facts the way that people used to, as absolutes. It's as much about inculcating habits of non-definitive speech as it is about structures of knowledge, and the philosophies of science.
 
2013-09-27 03:39:55 PM  

EWreckedSean: mgshamster: EWreckedSean: Off the subject, but saying science is true is a bit of a misnomer too. Scientific theories, which are the strongest of scientific facts, are often shown to be not 100% accurate (e.g. special relativity to general relativity).

The bold is blatantly false.  Theories are explanations of facts, they are not just "stronger facts."

I would suggest you google scientific fact...



mgshamster is right.  A theory is not a fact and never can be.  A theory is (minimally) a set of postulates that are logically consistent and are intended to explain the cause and effect relationships between observations.  Since theories are ideas, they cannot be directly observed or measured, so they do not fit the definition of "facts" as it is usually understood.


You are correct that scientific theories are believable, and we can generally be pretty confident that they are correct, but they are neither a "superior" nor an "inferior" kind of knowledge than facts are.  Facts are the "stuff" that we want to explain, and theories are the explanations that we use to make sense of the stuff.
 
2013-09-27 03:42:19 PM  

FloydA: EWreckedSean: mgshamster: EWreckedSean: Off the subject, but saying science is true is a bit of a misnomer too. Scientific theories, which are the strongest of scientific facts, are often shown to be not 100% accurate (e.g. special relativity to general relativity).

The bold is blatantly false.  Theories are explanations of facts, they are not just "stronger facts."

I would suggest you google scientific fact...


mgshamster is right.  A theory is not a fact and never can be.  A theory is (minimally) a set of postulates that are logically consistent and are intended to explain the cause and effect relationships between observations.  Since theories are ideas, they cannot be directly observed or measured, so they do not fit the definition of "facts" as it is usually understood.


You are correct that scientific theories are believable, and we can generally be pretty confident that they are correct, but they are neither a "superior" nor an "inferior" kind of knowledge than facts are.  Facts are the "stuff" that we want to explain, and theories are the explanations that we use to make sense of the stuff.


You are confusing a theory with a scientific theory. They are not interchangeable.

Here, just wikipedia, but it is sourced if you want to dig further:

scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on knowledge that has been   Scientists create scientific theories from
The strength of a scientific theory is related to the diversity of phenomena it can explain, which is measured by its ability to make
Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge. This is significantly different from the word "theory" in common usage, which implies that something is unsubstantiated or speculative
 
2013-09-27 03:42:34 PM  

SkinnyHead: AxiomJackson: Pants full of macaroni!!: SkinnyHead: "It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles. He can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author."  ~ Thomas Paine.

Auditioning for the role of Bevets, are we?

I wonder what point is he trying to prove by quoting a political activist that has been dead for over 200 years.

Just pointing out that his views support the position asserted in this lawsuit. Paine believed that science should be taught in schools theologically.  He saw the effort to teach science as a form of materialism as an effort to promote atheism in schools:

"The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of the creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labor with studied ingenuity to ascribe everything they behold to innate properties of matter; and jump over all the rest, by saying that matter is eternal."  ~ Thomas Paine.


Did Thomas Paine try to force those views on the schools via lawsuit? No?  STFU.
 
2013-09-27 03:42:42 PM  

FloydA: Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.

[i105.photobucket.com image 533x640]

If you want to teach kids about your personal religious beliefs, do it in church. That way, everyone who wants to hear about your god can do so, and everyone who wants to hear about some other god can go to some other church.

I assure you, you don't want to require me to teach your kids about your creation myths; you would not like the results.  Let your priests and ministers do their jobs and let me do mine.


"You use big words hurt my brain.  Brain not like big words.  Small words like 'magic man did it' good.   Easy, and not need think or study.  You contr...  cont...  say magic man not do it.  If you right, me wrong.  Me not wrong, because wrong feel bad and scary.  So you wrong.  Magic man say so."

This sums up every single discussion I have ever had with highly religious folk regarding evolution.  With the exception of one Jesuit priest I talked to, who was utterly brilliant, and immediately admitted that "God" is not a scientific proof, and that theology answered an entirely different set of needs in human beings.  He taught science in the local catholic school, if I remember right.
 
2013-09-27 03:43:32 PM  

unexplained bacon: meat0918: unexplained bacon: Elzar: unexplained bacon: [www.creationism.org image 720x375]

[www.creationism.org image 720x375]

such wit simply could not have evolved from apes

"Man" Tracks has been debunked for years - only the most intellectually dishonest creationists still use this argument:  http://www.paleo.cc/paluxy/mantrack.htm

/ just saying...

probably by people with fancy diplomas

TRICKSTERS!

lets see em refudicate THIS!


[www.creationism.org image 504x720]

There were seven of every clean and two of every unclean.

They can't even get their own apologetics right!

I browsed around a creationism site to grab those pics...the stupid was...INTENSE.
So yeah, let's pump that shiat into our kids heads and call it science...or math or waffles, who cares once you've gone that farkin' crazy.

/really unbelievable, these folks should be brushed aside as lunatics.


Mmm, waffles.
 
2013-09-27 03:44:08 PM  
Me, Moog, say teaching fancy alphabet writing make hostile environment for traditional cavemen family faith in pictographs. How is babby formed?  Thank you, Fox, for keeping me infromed.
 
2013-09-27 03:46:26 PM  

EWreckedSean: FloydA: EWreckedSean: mgshamster: EWreckedSean: Off the subject, but saying science is true is a bit of a misnomer too. Scientific theories, which are the strongest of scientific facts, are often shown to be not 100% accurate (e.g. special relativity to general relativity).

The bold is blatantly false.  Theories are explanations of facts, they are not just "stronger facts."

I would suggest you google scientific fact...


mgshamster is right.  A theory is not a fact and never can be.  A theory is (minimally) a set of postulates that are logically consistent and are intended to explain the cause and effect relationships between observations.  Since theories are ideas, they cannot be directly observed or measured, so they do not fit the definition of "facts" as it is usually understood.


You are correct that scientific theories are believable, and we can generally be pretty confident that they are correct, but they are neither a "superior" nor an "inferior" kind of knowledge than facts are.  Facts are the "stuff" that we want to explain, and theories are the explanations that we use to make sense of the stuff.

You are confusing a theory with a scientific theory. They are not interchangeable.


You are confusing theory (scientific or otherwise) with facts. Evolution occurs, that is a fact. WHY evolution occurs is the subject of various theories.
 
2013-09-27 03:48:53 PM  

TheWhoppah: Me, Moog, say teaching fancy alphabet writing make hostile environment for traditional cavemen family faith in pictographs. How is babby formed?  Thank you, Fox, for keeping me infromed.


Oh please. That was only funny for about 100 posts or so even in that original thread. Let's not try to resurrect it.

/supposed to be all caps too
 
2013-09-27 03:51:26 PM  
orthodox christians do not support this type of activity; it is important to use science as the discovery tool that it is.
 
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